First European Description of Life in Japan // 1585 'Striking Contrasts' Luis Frois - Primary Source
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2020
- "Many of their customs are so distant, foreign, and far removed from our own that is difficult to believe that one can find such stark contrasts among us and people who are so civilized."
In 1543 Portuguese traders and missionaries landed in Japan and started the Nanban Trade Period. For half a century, these missionaries and traders interacted with the Japanese, up until the early sixteenth century and the beginning of the isolationist policies of the Edo period. Here we have missionary Luis Frois describing some of the differences he saw between Europeans and the totally foreign Japanese - on subjects ranging from hairstyles to abortion.
Taken from chapters 1, 2, 3 and 14 of the translation 'The First Europeans in Japan, 1585', translated, edited and annotated by Richard K Danford, Robin D Gill and Daniel T Reff and published by Routledge.
Available at:
www.amazon.com/First-European...
www.routledge.com/The-First-E...
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The original text is available at: www.amazon.com/First-European-Description-Japan-1585/dp/041572757X
Could you read excerpts from the diary of the Persian ambassador to the court of King George in 1809? His comments about realistic painting, operas, women and the tightness of King George's pants are hilarious.
www.regencyhistory.net/2017/12/the-persian-ambassadors-visit-to-london.html
Can you make video about the European's description about the Philippines and it's people? I hope you will make it.
Yep, Saturday 😁
Jmchez yes yes yes I love it
@@VoicesofthePast Oh, boy! Waiting with baited breath.
"They don't like big eyes"
4 centuries later : anime
I think they originally got that from Disney animations.
@@novaterra973 They got it from Max Fleischer.
Imagine a japanese painter traveling to our time and watching in fear and disgust those girls with eyes that are like half their faces in some extreme. Even the ones we consider they are ok or small anime eyes would be outrageous for him, they went from hating almost all eyes to creating the biggest eyed drawings ever, and how do you explain to this poor guy that modern japanese fap to those girls🤣 he would kill himself
Amine characters look European
@@dontbetrippin4575 or alien 🤣
European: goes on a nice stroll through the countryside.
Japanese: “why are you punishing yourself like that?”
Ironically now japanese walk the most
@@juch3 only because they have to
Japanese: social distancing before it was popular
Altima NEO before you had to
Mars Sandy 😄
Portuguese: obeys gravity
Japanese: floats to spite him
Those damns Chinaman 😡
Buteos who hurt you?
And laughs
SandboxArrow what??? why? because of their ugly mugs? now I need to find everybody beautiful??? are you mad??? I bet you're ugly as an ox 😄 and bumb. by the way my preference doesn't go only for the looks, Portuguese society at the time had become one of the most advanced in the world in science, literature and art and still remaining a conservative society, something we all should learn from. unfortunately their numbers didn't help with people like Napoleon trying to still their richness and value. I put that society in front of any other at that time and today, you probably love your society now, we're different, will you tolerate me? 😁
Benny Harvey do you react only when you get hurt? your a whiner than 😁 which is ok, now please wash away your tears
I like the implication that he embraced someone in greeting and the Japanese thought it was hilarious.
Haha! I'm glad you got that
LMAO
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that
Yeah, and he's bitter about it
@MonkeyPie with the boston accent too, just for that one remark.
"The Japanese have short noses and small nostrils." - *shows a picture of Oda Nobunaga's massive nose*
Oopsy
@@VoicesofthePast Oda Nobunaga western spy confirmed?
Yep, but the question then remains; was Oda considered ugly?
@@joachimb9305 Warlords at the time had demonic faces on their helmet masks. Oda put his own face on the helmet.
Osvath97 *looks at picture of Nobunaga’s face*
Holy crap! Its everywhereelse-people looking!
Europeans : **do something**
This letter : not in Japan they don't.
*this video*
in Japan, they Fart through their ears and Listen with their bunghole just to spite us 😱
In Europe the children grow up sheltered and with kindness to become angry emotional adults.
In Japan the children grow up half-naked and with no kindness to become discreet well-adjusted adults.
God has a wicked sense of humour.
@@Goddamnitiwantaname This was Europe in the end of the Renaissance era where money was everywhere and things were nice; literally suffering from success.
@@crocidile90 nice for WHOM? "where money was everywhere and things were nice" they were improving alright. But nice...? Definitely not. Not for the common peasant of which 90 % of the population consisted.
@@crocidile90 aaah yes, the good times like the "pike and shot", the French Wars of Religion
, the Cologne War, the Dutch War of Independence, the 30 years War and all the other wars of religion, what a time to be alive! (but hey, at least in 1585 chocolate was first introduced into Europe!)
European: takes a stroll outside.
Japanese: what penance is he subjecting himself for?
Last night's extra slice of cake!
@ TerryBradstreet , Yep and his punishment is taking a nice stroll !
It’s the early Otaku! XD
"We play ball using our hands. The Japanese play ball using their feat."
Meanwhile, today, Portugal's most popular sport is soccer and Japan's is baseball.
Actually, we don't care for "soccer" in Portugal.
@@KTR2022
Okay FINE feetball
K T please
@@KTR2022 hahaha you can't be serious
K T 😄 and they say they speak english 😄
Bear in mind this was written in 1575, during the Sengoku Jidai. It was a time of immense warfare. That might be why violence was so common and discipline so strict.
wasnt europe in war on the otomans on those years?
@@creestee08 a bit late but when has europe EVER not been at war?
@@andrewhopkins886 That's why Europe was the super power in the world for so long. Constant war and competition between european countries made each and every one of them elevate themselves in every way possible
戦国時代は１００年間続きました。
戦争は日常でした。
戦闘行為は、あらゆる階層で一般化されました。
農民、宗教家、女性、貴族、全て武装してました。
戦国時代の日本人の精神性は、今の日本人の精神性とは、遠く離れています。
今の日本人の精神性と文化は、２００年以上続いた江戸時代に作られたものです。
@@andrewhopkins886
It's not quite the same, afaik. It was a period of basically constant national civil war, whereas in Europe the wars were mostly a thing that happened "over there". Japan was probably even then more population-dense than Europe, so it'd be like if the 30 years war was fought not just in Germany but in all of Europe from the Russian Tsardom to Sweden to Hungary to Spain. I think a more martial culture would've emerged then if that was the case
"We dress the same the entire year" - oh, written by a South European, for sure! ;)
Considering they sailed around africa and into the pacific... I wouldn't wear my beaver tunic.
Use some east european cloths in Africa or South America, get some knowledge.
Well they were Portuguese, so yes.
@@Litany_of_Fury Hi Друг! Long time no see!
A Portuguese.
"Killing a man is common", "Killing in one's own home is common". Yet, if someone kills another, then "they, too are killed." Lot of killing each other going on in Japan.
How to do deal with too much population in too little space. This might be our future too.
@@riseALK nah this was happening in iceland too in old times. we have 300,000 people in modern times. probably like 50,000 in old times. when the vikings killed someone, usually someone from his family, or close friend would kill his murderer as revenge. these revenge killings could last for generations. so population really doesn't have anything to do with it, it's just culture
"If [the killer] does not appear, another is killed in his place." How was anyone left to survive all this?
Another, servants are disciplined by beheading instead of whipping.
So was europe though lol
Account of Dutch employer of the VOC about living on their trading post at Deshima;
-These people are a devious lot. They despice us, but are yet very polite. They rarely come to the point in matters of business, which makes negotiating very time consuming and agrivating. Yet they are very persistant when they think they can make some profit.
They rarely allow us to get off this wretched little Island in the midst of sewer infested harbor water, that reeks to high heaven on warm days. And when they do it's always under guard of grumpy guys with shaven heads and razor sharp swords, we call queerlookers, while they call themselves ''Tsjemurray'', or something like that..
The only nice thing about this place are the women they send us for our entertainment. We call then ''Keesjes'', (which means something like ''F...ies''), while they call them Geisha's. At least they are clean and without the Spanish Pox (syfilis). They drink a brew made out of fermented rice, which they call ''Hupsakee'', but tasts like horsepiss and does nothing, unless you drink great amounts of it. Good thing I brought a stockpile of good Dutch gin with me. They do not allow us to worship on sundays, nor read the Bible. But since they can't even see the difference between a cash book and any other scripture that's hardly a problem. And we do our praying after dark and in silence.
The factor (boss) has managed to learn their language. And there's also a local magistrate called Ooka who knows Dutch. I learned him to play chess, and he became quite good at it in a short period of time. He has been to the Netherlands for six months about 12 years ago and especially was impressed by our ship building and the way we use windpower.
He did not like the climate (too wet) and even less our food, which gave him a bad stomach.
All in all not such a bad guy. And not so aloof as the rest of them.
Still I look forward to the time my stint in this place is over within 10 months, and I can return to Batavia (Jakarta) and from there, God willing, back home.-
Lovely! Where is this from?
@@VoicesofthePast Bertus Aafjes; Dutch writer. (1914-1993)
It would be difficult to imagine two cultures who's business practices are/were more diametrically opposed than the Dutch and the Japanese.
To this day any transactions lasting much longer than "How much?" "This much" "For sure?" "Yes" "Okay sold!" seems like wasting time to us.
Japan had their own version of Chess so I wouldn't be surprised if that's why he learned so fast.
@@ZephirumUpload 'Sensei Strange Devil, we have 2.000 bales of woven unpainted silk for sale.'
Immedeately; '20 bars of silver, or 90 gold dublons. Take it or leave it.'
'We will consider your offer' (takes bough)
'Good. Come back when you want to. Our offer stands and will not change. And your silk will not perish when you store it dry. Good day to you. Next!'
'O honourable stranger from the lands far beyond the sea. My master sends me to respecfully inform you, that the payment for or shipment of porcelain leaves to be desired.'
'You mean that inferior imported Chinese shit from Osaka? We can make this better in or own country. If it would have been real top quality stuff we would have payed him the full amount. But now we won't. You think we're stupid? Tell Horiyoshj he shouldn't try to trick us again. Next!'
A old man remaining silent kneels down with a package wrapped in oiled paper and lays this at the feet of the Dutch factor.
He unwraps it. It contains sable furs from Kamchatka. To his assistant; 'Yes! Pay him whatever he wants. Quick about it! And ask him if he's got more.'
I like how a lot is mirrored in the japaneese describsion of the portugese. Like showing emotions with no restraint
@@ndndsksnnd7889 damn youre insecure
@@paweandonisgawralidisdobrz2522 Look up "projection".
@@williammacneill956 what he is doing is projection. What you are doing is a passive agressive attack
@@paweandonisgawralidisdobrz2522 Ok boomer
@@moritamikamikara3879 such originality and comunicative skills to take this outdated meme and insert everywhere without explaining what comment you're reffering to. Not to mention guessing my generation so incredibly wrong, missed by 3. Trully worth admiration.
I like how both Europe and Japan had good and bad things instead of presenting one side or the other as "better". This really looks like a fair comparison
He's just explaining the differences, this is to give someone an impression of how different Europe is from Japan.
@@-haclong2366 I know, I just appreciate the way it was done
Well I think the author tried to ignore "good and bad" in his account and just represent reality accurately, which is very admirable in my opinion as it lets the reader make up their own mind on matters of morality. The vast majority of accounts seem to be plastered in judgement, much like that Japanese scholar's account of the Portuguese
@Khanate Archer Why would you assume that we mean "politically correct"?Attempting to accurately portray reality in an amoral and unbiased way is one thing, and political correctness is another thing. Political correctness largely results from a fear of causing offence - and instead of being amoral it promotes moral relativity
@@tommeakin1732 political correctness goes further then just "not to offend", but I see your point.
It's very interesting that this is the writing of someone who experienced that cultural shock first hand, and not second hand accounts like some previous texts. The Portuguese description is quite vivid and even objective.
I love to see accounts of culture shock that maintains a state of wonder or bewilderment, it feels alien and such is fascinating
Read the letter from Portuguese explorer Pero Vaz de caminha where he describes first contact with South American tribes. Also vivid and quite beautiful
@@HarryBalzacc Probably one of the most astonishing pieces of literature I've ever read, honestly. Would love it for VotP to cover it at some point.
Yeah I don't know. I've only read from more recent sources but accounts always says Japanese are clean while the Chinese are dirty. Japan is very mountainous so there is a ton of running water for sanitation and cleaning. I am interested to learn more about this time period
We portuguese have ways with words, in writing, now speaking to each other its a lot of insulting with love putting into it.
"In Japan, ambiguous words are considered the best language, and are the most highly esteemed."
This is true even today.
Is it a joke, cause i don't get it
Polite Japanese language is notoriously ambiguous. Receptionists will never tell you, for example, that all rooms are booked. They'll just tell you it'll be hard to find a room, with the expectation that you'll understand that there are no more rooms in the first place.
@@TheSonOfDumb "They'll just tell you it'll be hard to find a room" - so is wasting time considered 'best practices' in Japan? I thought the Japanese are supposed to be efficient? Wtf?
@@DeathToTheDictators It's not really wasted time, because speaking to another Japanese person, that person would automatically understand that they are saying there are no rooms. It's basically considered impolite to refuse (We have no rooms, sorry), so they are implying there are no rooms without stating it. But since they assume the person they are speaking to will understand this, no time is wasted.
If they are talking to a foreigner, of course, all that goes out the window.
@@DeathToTheDictators You have to understand that to a Japanese, there is no true ambiguity in that statement whatsoever. A Japanese has the cultural context to understand they are being refused when they hear such a thing, whereas someone from the US or indeed a lot of Europe might not pick up this subtext. It's not because of any attempt at being sly, but simply because a foreigner doesn't have the context to understand what is meant - polite refusal.
To give you an American example, it's common in the US to greet strangers in a casual social context with 'how are you?' Americans understand that this is not an invitation to go into a lengthy description about how your girlfriend is cheating on you and your boss cut your hours and your cat won't stop pissing on the wall, but is rather, implicitly, a statement to the effect of 'I hope you're having a good day.' In some places, such as Germany, the tendency of Americans to ask how you are and to not really want to know is considered baffling.
So different than the Japanese description of the first Europeans from a couple of weeks ago. Which was 'they look different than us' then 4 chapters on this thing they call a gun.
Just imagine being under the impression that bows are the best long range weapon only for some shady looking merchant to pull out an iron pipe and unleash fucking thunder on whatever he was aiming at. It'd make for a strong impression. If i was in that scenario i'd probably buy some clothes from them... since i would've shit my pants.
@@apotato6278 they say that the first time Portuguese show them guns, a sailor shot dead a flying bird. Imagine seing a man with an iron stick that spits fire and smoke and then seing the bird falling. And what do you mean by shady? You mean sailors with their glorious armours and beards!
A potato well at the time each had their use I think. Guns weren't nearly as fast to reload or precise as a bow, and range was low. But they certainly were effective in dealing with armor and they had a psychological impact. At least the ones from the conquest of the Native American civs. and a few decades after I think.
Well, the Japanese historian was describing only the visitors, he would have to visit Portugal to make a cultural comparison like the one here.
ADHadh Balderdash.
Europe: lets see what on the other side of the world
Japan: let not see what's on the other side of the world
The Super Casual Pleb the rulers of japan enforced isolation. Not really a choice for them.
@@ciello___8307 This was in early 1500 where trade with Nanban was boomed.
Not now.
It must have felt like going to the other side of the world landed you in upside down land to this missionary :D
The dutch poisoned the well for the portuguese. Guess profit came before saving souls. Besides the ruling class didn't like that catholicism taught that peasants had souls.
"Japanese display their scar as honour"
18th century European: write that down!
Well in Germany in the 19th century young men would deliberately acquire dueling scars on the cheeks as a badge of honor.
"We play ball using our hands. The Japanese play with their feet."
What a weird concept. That'll never catch on.
You mean sexually or as a sport?
@@03019a it seems both are striving nowadays
Almost like today in the USA is called "football" a sport that rarely if ever uses feet to control/propel the ball.
Is *that* why monsters, that are supposed to be scary, in Japanese films, have big, round, googly eyes?! It always came across as comical to me.
It’s actually quite an interesting line of connections. You see, during the Middle Ages, the Mongols invaded China (this is going somewhere, I promise) with the help of some mercenaries from modern day Iran. The Chinese were so intimidated by these mercenaries that many religious sculptures would sometimes give their sculptures exaggerated features based on descriptions of Iranians (obviously caricatures, but they didn’t really have many models). This was primarily done in Buddhism, with wrathful deities like Acala and Vaisravana sometimes being drawn with bigger eyes. These motifs eventually made their way into Buddhist iconographic canon and, like many aspects of Chinese Buddhism, was exported to Japan and Korea.
@@dylanchouinard6141 when mongols invaded the brown people and europeans,they literally thought asians were a punishment sent by god lol they call us yellow demons
@@dylanchouinard6141 that sounds like nonsense. China and Persia had lots of contact through history and there were many Persians living in major Chinese cities
goodvibration IDK, man. That’s just what I was taught
@@fckstreetshitters4294 yeah, people with down syndrome are to this day in many European languages known as "mongoloid"
I love the factual aspect of this testimony. There is no judgement, just facts.
Yes, it sound like he trying to discribe it as exactly as he can, he do not know about a Katana, so he discribe it as a Cutlass. That is corect.
@@kirgan1000 It seems like he's describing the sword for an audience for which the word 'katana' has no meaning. 'Cutlass' is probably the modern translator's English translation for whatever Portuguese word the author originally used for a single-edged curved sword, similar to how the dao/dadao is often referred in the West as a 'chinese broadsword'.
StorWolf01 don’t project your fruity opinion on the past ..that’s what your doing ..facts
@@atomic_wait Fun fact: Katana was eventually adopted by the Portuguese language. Katana, or"Catana" as we spell it, is a type of large sword in Portuguese.
Yeah, from a modern perspective it describes various traits where either "Europeans" or "Japanese" are in current eyes the most modern.
Was even surprised they already had annually changing fashion at this period in Europe.
Japanese student after writing something down: What the heck did I just write
Yeah I think in modern times you learn the alphabet and to write and read at the same time.
I think you misunderstand. It's more about the emphasis of the instruction rather than the literal separation of skills. Or if you like, the stage at which written proficiency is expected. Reading is much cheaper to practice than writing in some ways.
"Women in Europe don't use wigs, shave the front of their heads, and don't like visible face paint"
*Queen Elizabeth I has entered the chat*
You use royalty as an example of common practices of women?
The writter was a Portuguese. Normally, portuguese royals and nobility did not used wigs. Frech did, and you wanna know why? L I C E S.
@We Are Queen Elizabeth I was the ruling Queen in 1585. European royalty up to 1900 or so the have always followed the fashions of their time and location, just on a more extravagant scale to show their wealth and status. In any image of a Renaissance court, the royalty, nobility, and gentry will be wearing similar garments, just with different displays of luxury. Lower classes will have a similar general shape to their garments, though perhaps 5-10 years behind and modified to be suitable for labor. Yes she was influenced by foreign fashion, but she picked up her fashion from France, not Asia! A high forehead was considered a sign of great beauty in the late middle ages and early Renaissance, so women plucked their foreheads. Wearing of makeup was normal to hide flaws (Elizabeth had smallpox scars) and to achieve the snow white complexion that almost no women have.
Also she was the most powerful 'woman in Europe' at the time, so yes, she counts even if Portuguese customs were different.
As for the comment that she was royalty, and the common people didn't do that, the same came be said for Japan.This writer is clearly discussing court ladies because poor women could not afford wigs, which were made of actual human hair. There were probably homemade types of makeup like kohl or certain tints, but this is difficult to prove or disprove due to lack of evidence. In general makeup was a luxury both in Europe and Asia.
P.S. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BLM. CHILL.
Elizabeth did that to hide the smallpox scars. She caught it when she was 29. Also, it was lead based and ate into her skin.
English noblewomen often blackened their teeth in emulation of Queen Bess (a sugarholic).
most of the things he explains, are still true today, and part of their culture.
1.- No hugs/embrace culture,
2.- Being direct with words is something pretty much nobody does there
3.- whiteness and black hair, is still highly desirable
4.- seasonal clothing culture
*Portuguese man arrives in Japan*
Japanese: "I hate all your facial features and I want the metal boom stick thingies...desu."
Portuguese: 👍👁👄👁👍🤑🤑💣💣💣
Pretty accurate 🤣
this made me laugh harder than I probably should.
That "desu" at the end killed me x'D
*Tsundere*
Having lived in Japan for some time now, it is not much different today.
Japanese: "I hate almost everything about you. I won't sit next to you on the train, and I fear that you may rape my children, but please visit our souvenir shop... desu" xD
Europeans: *does something*
Japanese: "We don't do that here."
"Europeans say tomato. Japanese say tomato."
Another European in 1548: What the hell is a tomato?
@Skyhawk Apodaca What?
@Skyhawk Apodaca Uh, it's not like the Europeans even knew that Native Americans were susceptible to pox when they met.
@Skyhawk Apodaca The best spiritual medicine is christ. I hope you find him my friend.
@Skyhawk Apodaca - The Plague came from Asia brought to Europe by the silk road. You hardly hear any Europeans bitchen about anyone that killed nearly half of Europe. So stop whinning like a baby.
@Skyhawk Apodaca i see your outlook on history and politics, but i still dislike it☹because you wrote it under this funny top comment. I urge you to watch the song "i say tomato, you say tomato"
"They seem to have a custom of drawing under age girl rolled in tentacles"
There are actually examples of Japanese tentacle porn (shunga) and other weird erotic art from the ukiyo-e period. There's a very famous print by (I think) Hokusai called "the Dream of the Fisherman's Wife" in which said wife is being raped by two octopuses.
@@patavinity1262 I don't think she's been raped. .I think it's consensual intercourse....with sea animals.
@@guileniam Possibly, yes. Either way, it's supposed to be her fantasy.
The Greek mythology has tons of that sorta stuff. Like Zeus turning into an animal and then having a sex with a girl. Why the similarities? They are both polytheistic cultures. Men, animals, plants, inanimate entities, machines, are not that essentially different in their world view.
501 amiga what about both having a former common culture origin??? seems pretty obvious wouldn't you say so? can you guess their name??
I really enjoy the narrations about Japan. Love to see more!
Thanks for watching! Glad to hear it. Gonna keep trying to find more sources, it's a lovely topic.
Gay
2:04 The reason for Japanese of the period to suffer the marks of "the Pox" more than Europeans was the lack of dairy cultivation in Japan. A lesser ailment, "Cowpox," arose within European populations (and lent to the mystique of the beautiful, pock-free milkmaid) which mitigated the more serious virus if contracted later, while the Japanese had no such natural defenses available to them. ='[.]'=
ouch
Raycheetah so wait. By them getting people to come and say how they felt with Indians, the same people provided pox as well.
It’s so fascinating how history repeats itself
Edit: ment delt and not felt, but the word is fitting, since open feeling are important to the narrative of the subject, so I thought this edit would be better lol
And was from the cowpox (known by its latin name: Vaccinia) that the first vaccine was made. Also, that ''pock free milkmaid' HAD pock marks, but in their hands, since cowpox is less virulent than smallpox, but surprisingly similar in genetics
this is one of the many advantages Europeans had over other people regarding diseases, and is an oft overlooked fact when considering European expansion and native deathtolls.
Chrizzie 78 how so? Literally one of the most well known books in the study of that question is called “Guns, GERMS, and Steel”
11:34 "Ambiguous words are considered the best language and are the most highly esteemed."
No wonder characters in Japanese Videogames and Anime are always so Goddamn evasive when it comes to explaining the plot.
It's reactive culture according to Richard Lewis.
Listening to this it is interesting how China and Europe were so similar, yet despite the cultural influence from China the culture of ancient Japan show such contrasts. Especially in regard to female conduct.
this isn't ancient japan, this is less than 500 years ago. America had been discovered for almost a century at this time
@@god5620 Yes you are right, it is medieval Japan. Ancient here just refers to a time that is no longer present.
The Chinese Kabbalah I-Ching learned fast about female domination in world domination. The Chinese were the first to create a "moral code"
@@songcramp66 China is simply a pawn of London and the Crown just like U.S. since masonic minion traitors sold Americans out. Look up Declaration of St. James Place and Executive Order 12803. Poppy was rewarded with knighthood for his service to the Crown just like several others. Britain conquered China during the Opium Wars after getting them addicted to Opium just like they're doing here in U.S. This modern culture is so dumbed down to history it's a global crisis.
@@songcramp66 The disease originated at Ft. Detrick by the way.
The wig matter is ironic given the big wigs that got so popular in Europe.
Orientalism was a big thing in Europe during the 17th-18th centuries. All those silk clothings, wigs and powdered faces probably came from China and Japan.
@@Xerxes2005 in the case of wigs it was mostly due to Louis XIV baldness, so what before the orientalist fad. Same for makeup, it had to do with court culture. Not huge in the 16th century but much more influential in the 17th and 18th centuries.
@@FOLIPE A form of orientalism existed well before the XIXth century. "Chinoiseries" or "turqueries" were big in France in the XVIIth century and influenced fashion, especially the textiles used. I may be wrong about the wigs. Still, since it had such a strong influence in arts, design, and decoration (ex. Roccoco style), I wonder how the way people dressed should have been spared.
@@Xerxes2005 yeah but the rococo for example really started as a denial of the exaggerated tendencies of the barroque style that was more popular during the period of Louis XIV that I am talking about. So that influence starts to be relevant in the second quarter of the 18th century, not the 16th and 17th centuries, as far as I understand, and the adoption of wigs and heavy makeup in Europe would be previous to it.
@@FOLIPE wasn't makeup due to syphilis becoming fashionable as an increasing number of lords got infected with it? I can't recall the source but I read somewhere that it was in for quite some time to mimic the symptoms by means of makeup
2:45 "We dress the same throughout the four seasons". Well, if there was a giveaway that the account came from a very mild southern european climate (Portugal in this case), this is it.
Portugal has atlantic climate, except for the far south. No one's gonna dress the same in 25C summers as in 0C winters
I always love detailed accounts of foreign lands that aren’t overtly hostile or condescending. This was really a fun comparison between the Portuguese and the Japanese of the era.
Black teeth are a sign of beauty? "Listen here nippon, I have here something what we call meth..."
But Meth was first synthesized by the Japanese
Fiamo Scarlette there actually were some Europeans who favored blackening their teeth. Queen Elizabeth I famously ‘cleaned’ her teeth with sugar-paste to keep them black. For both it was a wealth symbol; European nobles did so to show off how much expensive foods they could eat, and Japanese nobles did it so their teeth would not go from white to yellow like the many peasants who could not afford expensive black dye.
I saw old women do this a lot in Hanoi, when sitting in the bus some of these old black teeth old women spit out the fruits they use to make their teeth black on the floor.
Beauty is very subjective and what's seen a lot in many cultures is that beauty is often more determined by status than actual appearance, take for instance how we see a tan as desirable these days whereas previously it was a sign you could not afford to spend all day in your house which, after industrialization, got flipped around. A sugar high diet was often very very rare and restricted mostly to nobility because in lieu of refined sugar you'd either need to reduce fruit to a wasteful degree or gather large amounts of honey.
It wouldn't be too outlandish to assume that Japanese noblewomen, who probably ate the most delectable foods, would eventually see their teeth rot, but since nobility is revered and thus without fault, a black mouth cannot possibly be a fault, it must be a thing of beauty.
Something similar happened in French fashion in the renaissance, with the concept of a 'beauty mark', this was also probably an attempt to imitate the features of a high ranking noble.
Underrated post
Ancient Greek description of Ancient Egypt pls!!
YEP
@@VoicesofthePast I believe Plato wrote a brilliant description of Ancient Egypt and it would be wonderful to have you serenade us with its retelling :)
@@VoicesofthePast Perhaps it was Herodotus 😅
@@El-Californio Yes Herodotus, he wrote a lot about foreign people.
Edward Roman Great idea! Love all Platos work.
Somewhere in Europe, 1585
Woman: *drinks wine*
Man: *gets offended*
It is so very not true that women in Europe didn't drink wine at that time. It wasn't ok to get drunk, but women who could afford wine drank it often.
Somewhere in japan
Japanese woman: *Is unable to feed child*
Still Japanese woman: “Guess I’ll just step on it’s neck....” *Steps on infant’s neck*
European dude: *0 o 0*
@Griffith Valentino Are you talking about Europe? I'm not really an expert on the drinking habits of Latin cultures, but in Germanic and Slavic cultures not only was it ok to get drunk, it was almost a social requirement for men to get drunk together. There's a similar culture in Japan today, where you are pressured to get drunk with your coworkers and even your boss! That sounds like a nightmare to me.
To be fair, the writer was Portuguese, and I'm not at all familiar with 16th Century Portuguese culture. It might well be that it was a "thing" in that culture for women to be expected to avoid wine... still, I take it that fresh water was not a reliable or safe resource until fairly recently, with beer and wine being popular because the water they were made from tended to be boiled in the process, resulting in beer and wine being the default drinks for everyone as a result of the relative safety, so one can't help suspecting that the women were probably drinking SOMETHING alcoholic, even if the writer didn't consider it to be "wine". (In the context of drunkenness it was mentioned alongside, perhaps he was referring to recreational and social drinking - perhaps specifically in taverns and public houses - rather than drinking a moderate amount of wine privately at home, and in company only with meals?)
Japanese women in 1600s: This stimulus check still hasn't come in... eh. *curbstomps newborn baby*
These readings of primary sources are an increasing pleasure to me. Now I know what I can expect, so I anticipate them more. Thank you both for doing this service to the historically (in both senses of the word) curious.
Please do Pero Vaz de Caminha letter to Portugal's king uppon reaching Brazil!
I really hope he does, this videos are wonderful, and I would love another account of a first contact between humans/civilizations.
"They are of a dark brown, rather reddish colour"... "and very well built"...
...
He saw a rosary and made a sign and we gave it to him, and he was pleased and put it around his neck.
... Then he pointed at the captains colar... we choose to not understand because we were not going to give it to him... 🤣
That would be nice indeed!
@@Vitor_M. In Japan, portuguese they are extrovert, in Brazil they are shy.
Thats a good one
It's a strange thing to think about how much of the social contrasts between the two cultures have changed over time yet the physical differences stay the same, how over hundreds of years these remain true. How we are literal physical reincarnations of our ancestors, I probably find that more mind blowing then I should
Homogeneity is diversity
It seems the Europeans had a lot more respect for the Japanese than vice versa.
Just like today, lol.
Well because europeans were obsessed with exploration back then and anything about different discoveries newly found people. That's probably the inspiration behind this writing.
That is because a European traveling to Japan would see a bunch of people of all different classes. The Japanese were only seeing sailors from Europe, after traveling thousands of miles. 16th century sailors weren't the most elegant or well refined lot, and after 1000 miles and months at sea they were probably acting pretty weird even by European standards, due to the cabin fever from being stuck on a boat so long.
Initially the Japanese appeared to accept the Portuguese relatively well. But some years later they started chopping our heads. The first to lose them were the Missionaries - I guess the message was "I'm ok with my Religion, thank you" - then everyone else and the Portuguese ended up unwelcome and expelled... ☹
However, even today the Japanese appear to cherish Portugal and everything Portuguese.
Interesting how both the Portuguese and Japanese noted how differently they each showed emotions. Last week the Japanese noted the traders showed their emotions “with no restraint” and here the Portuguese are saying how the Japanese would take their house burning down lightly
To make things worse the Portuguese, like most Southern European people are Latins and a very emotional, outspoken lot. Maybe if the Japs were dealing with Scandinavians or Germans they would have had a different appraisal. 😅
"Hey, babe! My truck's acting up. I need to borrow your car."
Japanese wife: "That'll be 75¢ per mile."
😂
Japanese wife: by the way, rent is due.
*House burning to the ground*
Japanese guy: „I‘m okay with this“
Oh man, I always love learning about the Portugal's first contact with other nations, especially considering they were in many cases the first Europeans to enter in contact with them. It's also quite nice how they don't sound judging or think themselves as superior, but rather just present the facts.
Hands down the best video he has done yet and most important I would say!
I only just discovered this channel. I've seen a number of videos already just today and I *_really_* like what you're doing here! Please continue!
im so gratefull your channel exists
Your channel is fantastic. Thank you so much for your work.
What I love about these foreign accounts of then distant and unfamiliar lands is that us moderns can learn just as much about the contemporary culture/society of the visitors/observers as that of the peoples being described. Truly a window into the past and the closest thing history buffs will ever have to a time machine .
What a lovely channel to stumble across. Definitely going to subscribe. Love the way the speaker reads.
If you like these type of texts, I recommend "Pilgrimage" by Fernão Mendes Pinto. It describes his voyages to India and his exploration of the far east
This is interesting not only for the contrasts between cultures being observed, but also for the insights into European culture of the late 16th century (the "ancestor" of the culture I live in). For example, the observation about "going for a stroll". I guess I'd always figured that walking around for no particular reason other than recreation / relaxation / exercise would have been something that didn't happen until after the development of mechanical transport, but apparently they were doing it at least a few centuries earlier than that. Also the observation about "playing ball": the Europeans back then found it novel that the Japanese didn't use their hands when doing so; a few centuries later the Europeans invented a ball game where you don't use your hands and now it is by far the most popular sport on that continent. Maybe no one else finds that sort of stuff fascinating but I do!
Thanks for the videos, keep up the great work.
It's the most popular sport in the world, ironicly the best at this sport is Brazil, the very first and biggest colony of Portugal.
Elson Felix 7-1
@@sergeantmajor_gross 5- 4 (world cups) we still are the best!
@@sergeantmajor_gross honestly, Germany did us a favor here, the 7-1 was converted in 17, Wich was the electorial number of Bolsonaro.
Elson Felix He is great
At least some aren't very different from today, especially regarding emotion and social etiquette.
Some on the other hand are 180° opposite to present day. For example their dislike to european facial features such as full beards and big round eyes :) it is amazing how values and preferences change with time.
Groups have evolved their customs and social behaviors as long as they have physically evolved. The traditions and social nuances never really left. Probably won't change change for a long time.
@Khanate Archer because they cant grow any.
lamebubblesflysohigh nope its because that Japanese girl dont like beards at all
lamebubblesflysohigh
The male beauty standard in Japan is very effeminate
Can you make videos about these?
European historians about Korea?
Chinese historians about Taiwan before Han people's migration?
Chinese historians about Korea?
Chinese historians about Southeast Asia?
Yes! Any suggestions on sources? I know some good ones for the last two - any ideas on Europe on Japan or China on Taiwan?
Hendrick Hamel's account of Jan Janse de Weltevree's stay in Korea and of his own occurring later.
But these things are documented well enough in English and accessible. More interesting would be first accounts of Koreans by Chinese and the reverse, Chinese of the (proto) Persians, etc. The works of the great historian of the Han Dynasty, Ssu-Ma Ch'ien, aka Sima Qian, ought to be consulted.
A fascinating group is the Manchu. As a playbook to its invasion and conquest of Ming China, studies were done of the three invasions by China by foreigners, for example the Mongol. The purpose to know where they had succeeded and how they failed to sustain their rule so than the Manchu wouldn't repeat the same mistakes.
The Manchu were top tier mounted warriors - the blitzkrieg of the day - though they also fought very well on foot. They had both a short and a long bow (though not as long as the famed English longbow) and more than 60 types of arrows, each designed for different task - about 2/3rds were for hunting.
There's a military historian named Peter Dekker who's probably _the_ authority on Manchu bows, so if you're interested in the topic search for his writing.
@@VoicesofthePast As a simple exemple , Taiwan was given the name of Formosa , wich means with forrm or beautiful ,to the Portuguese eyes .
@@VoicesofthePast I want China on Taiwan before the Han
I always enjoy your videos, keep surprising us
Fantastic insight into both great cultures. Thank you for uploading this treasure
No channel has me rapt and enthralled like this one does. Truly mesmerising, fascinating.
Very interesting thanks for uploading 👍🏽
Thrse insights into the minds of people from the past is so fascinating. One of my favorite channels.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing this.
Wonderful! Absolutely wonderful. I love hearing these sorts of accounts. I also love how the Japanese always depict westerners with the most outrageously large noses!
Das racist
Yeah, it's hilarious
has me thinking they were jews and not europeans
@@algonzalez6853 Do you think Jews don't live in Europe or something...?
@@algonzalez6853 "Sadly"? Ohh you're a bigot.
Keep it up amazing history channel becoming one of my favorites
Thanks very much, glad you are enjoying the vids!
This was amazing. Thank you
This channel is an excellent homeschool aid. Thank you!
It's interesting that the last part about ambiguity in language is something a lot of foreigners still remark on after moving to Japan
One of my favorite pieces in the Ancient Art Museum in Lisbon: the "nambam" screens. it's like a "comic book", there are always a few more details to discover. Best wishes to all from Lisbon Portugal.
This is one of the best channels on CZcams.
Such an excellent channel; subscribed! Your channel needs at least a million subs. Please keep it up!
Very interesting to see how much changed for both countries and what stayed the same.
What strikes me the most about this is just how little has changed in 435 years! There are still many elements of truth in terms of how to describe contemporary cultural differences between East and West!
LOVE THIS. your vids about japan are so good. subbed.
Very interesting. Thank you.
"Wearing printed fabric is foolish". oh how the times has changed
Dear Japan, we still much admire you and what an amazing country you have become.
Thank you for jumping right into it instead of going on a drawn-out tirade unnecessarily rephrasing/explaining what the title already does.
Awesome thank's for the video
Am currently re-reading Tales of the Otori, and this video provides some nice context and curiosities. Nice read if you like Japan, specially at this period of time
Interesting that Europeans had fewer pox marks, considering that this is before vaccination or even before the introduction of variolation.
Why?
@@htoodoh5770 You'd think they would have roughly similar numbers. The disease usually doesn't discriminate, and smallpox was a serious recurring problem throughout history.
Immunisation via proximity with cattle and dairy consumption in Europe. The Japanese never raised a lot of farm animals and their fermented foods are plant-based.
Probably since smallpox had been in Europe for longer.
@@TheZapan99 Hmm, that makes sense.
'In Europe we look left and right before crossing the street, in Japan it is tradition to look up and down'
Great narrative, insightful.
As a portuguese, I loved to hear this, thank you. But I'd love to know how much of this is true, how much is the product of misundestading, and how much is a case of some japanese having a go at the ignorant foreigner! :D
@Tina Yael Severinova M. yeah, that one alone...
@Clementina Yael Severina M. From what I've read, infanticide was pretty common in Japan. They called it "mabiki". Idk about the neck snapping, but I wouldn't be too shocked if it was a fairly common method.
I think that in colder parts of europe they wore wigs to keep their head warm, while in portugal they probably didn't bother as much with wigs unless they were royalty posing for a protrait.
Do more Portuguese encounters with natives in the discovery ages
The Portugese colonizers has a bad record in Latin America and in Asia.
Portugese were the first europeans to really trade with China but they enslaved many many chinese children so China was like fk europeans before the English ever even visited
They’re all incredibly brutal and may not be CZcams appropriate. As much as people like to blame all evils on colonialism and to hate Europeans today, there’s a reason many Europeans believed colonialism was a moral good. The majority of premodern societies across much of the world were incredibly barbaric. We’re talking about such things as eating escaped slaves while they’re still alive in Africa, or people killing their own family members as soon as they show even the slightest of sickness.
@@VengefulLeprechauns The word christiandom: to spread christianity to everywhere on earth bcuz they are seen as inferior.
The genocide of native Americans didnt stop the use of that term, the entire slave trade didnt stop the use of it, it took 2 world wars amongst all christian superpowers that nearly destroyed this planet to stop the use of that word.
European colonialism resulted in 10% of the human population exploiting the other 90% in order to live a certain lifestyle. Now the world wants to live decently too and you cant stand that.
How can you tell a country to not industrialize or modernize when you yourself went through the same things?
Colonization means you dont want their children educated, fed or conscienciousness. Its just like slavery, it built certain civilizations up in the past, but isnt acceptable anymore and is morally backwards when the mainstream news expect every human to have even have the "right" to call themselves a member of the opposite sex. So i think the "right" to have sovereignty and not starve and be colonized is reasonable for 50% of the countries to have.
@Treasure Hunter Countries that were colonized the longest in Africa by Europeans, or had the most European immigrants are the richest in Africa today, the exact opposite of what the colonial oppression narrative you believe would have predicted. India wasn’t robbed, their economy and per capita GDP grew much faster under the British Empire than before British takeover. The Spanish brutality in the Americas was greatly exaggerated by Britain for propaganda purposes. The idea that European colonialism was bad for the world is the grade school talking point told to children in western public schools, I know since I was there, but when you actually take time to look at the data it’s simply not true. Your comment appears to show a profound lack of historical knowledge on Non European pre modern societies. In short, they were awful. Rampant human sacrifice, cabalism, mass rape, and a general lack of concern for human life abound from first hand accounts of explorers throughout the age of discover. Not to mention modern DNA evidence discovering previously unknown genocides in Africa. In particular, Bantu Africans killed almost every Non Bantu tribe they came across, down to the women even. The only reason African ethnicities like the Khoisan even exist today is because of the British Empire stopping the Bantu Expansion into South Africa during the late 1800’s.
@Marcelo Henrique Soares da Silva Of course your education wouldnt tell you that portugese enslaved Chinese children. I dont need your agreement to know that its a documented fact.
How is Africa nowdays i ask you?
Egypt was a fuel state for the Roman empire and has always been sucked out of all its resources by europeans and americans.
Hi thanks for sharing this information VERY VERY interesting
Brilliant and very insightful yet again, thank you
"We play ball with our hands"
*SHAMEFUL DISPRAY!*
I love to see how as the world becomes easier to travel, our customs bleed into each others. often slowly cutting out the worst of us.
while we still have very far to go, it is assuring to see the nature of man seems to go towards compassion as well as the path of least resistance.
While it is a tragedy that I was raised to hate my own culture, it has made me form a pseudo culture by taking things I like from other cultures and incorporating it into my own. I will never be able to think America is a "good" place and will always have a sour taste in my mouth over patriotism. Fuck the American education system for making me hate what I am
New 2 channel...need sum like this in my life👍🏽👌🏽🤩
I am so glad I found this channel
Welcome!!
@@VoicesofthePast thanks !! I literally binge watched 4 videos and I'm a big history fan so this helps
Btw, the narration guy's voice is 👌
"in Japan they kill no matter how trifle the sum"
HE STOLE MY WIFE COMB DEATH SENTENCE
Yes, a trivial accusation leading to death seems pretty damn easy to exploit.
HE STOLE MY WIFE'S TEETH-BLACKENING GOO!
Europeans: The... The what? Just give it back...
Japanese: YOU'VE BROUGHT SHAME UPON US ALL! But if you leave, we'll kill this other guy, it's all fine.
In England, a starving 12 year old could have his ears clipped for poaching a Lord's rabbit, hanged for a second offense.
@@robertlehnert4148 Compared to being killed at the first offence
This part is bullshit by the way (of course....)
The comb is not important, breaking oath and fealty is important. Suffer not traitors.
Concerning the difference in beauty standards of the eyes, I watched a movie once (foreign film) that explained that the Mongols considered women with very thin eyes to be beautiful because it was more difficult for demons to enter the body of the women. This is relevant to Japan because I am pretty sure there is a custom for women to wear a head covering at their wedding to cover their 'horns'. Related to eyes and beauty standards I also remember hearing that some tribes in the middle east on first seeing Lawrence of Arabia with his blue eyes thought it was hideous too, they apparently described it as looking at the sky through his skull which was not very attractive to them.
I have read a lot of descriptions of the forms of far peoples from other peoples who see them for the first time, and it was almost always the same thing "they are ugly", and I think that this is a natural human reaction, as any human form that you are not familiar with in your life will see distorted , but when you become familiar with it you will be able to see it more objectively and see it beautiful side
Genuinely fascinating this
I just found this gem of a channel
European contact seems to have had a huge impact on Japanese beauty standards.
Yeah, they realized that black teeth aren't as sexy as they originally thought, and maybe round eyes aren't so bad after all.
@Andrew Jackson I'm so sure. 🤣🤣
@mr_ anheuser Define "European Look". I would never switch my facial features to with Prince Harry. 🤣🤣Light colored eyes and hair are definitely admired by all. But hair and eye color doesn't make one beautiful and I don't know any people who are actually jealous of Europeans because those features are abundant among them. I see people with blonde hair and blue eyes daily that are absolutely hideous and people with dark features who are beautiful.
@mr_ anheuser racist
@mr_ anheuser that's ideal for you. Everyone doesn't desire to look like European Greek statue. Even the ancient Greeks lauded other races for their beauty. There are amazing looking people in every race. Do you think African, Asians, Middle Easterners and other groups don't have their own examples of physical perfection? I understand that you have pride in your ethnicity but you can't impose your views on everyone. It's silly and hubris.
You gotta love the guy telling this as if he just explored Japan in the old times. It gives the video life
The narration is great
wow. simply incredible