Stay Alive Lighting For your Cabeese and Passenger Cars (101)
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- Folks keep asking me for a cheap and easy circuit to prevent the lights in their cabeese and passenger cars from flickering as they roll along on the track--so here it is! In this video I'll show you a circuit with only 4 parts that will do the job for you. It is simple and easy to put together, and will work with LEDs or small light bulbs. I've added a list of parts below that will work but there is nothing sacred about these, just about anything close will work. You can order parts from All Electronics, Jameco, Digikey, Mouser or just about any other electronic parts supplier so I have not given specific part numbers, just the description and approximate specifications.
I’ll be doing a followup video to show how to install track power pickups and fit this and another circuit into some cars so hang in there. I can’t fit everything into one video or it would be over an hour long! I’ll move the power pickup video ahead and uploaded on Monday so watch for it.
Full wave bridge rectifier 1-1.5 amps, 50-100V
Radial electrolytic capacitor 1000uF, 25V
Trim potentiometer 10K ohm
Resistor 100-150 ohms, 1/4-1/2 watt - Jak na to + styl
Folks, this circuit can be built as is or you can get innovative and make it much more compact. You can build it on a piece of perf board to make it flat. You can spread the components out and wire them together with insulated wires to fit in odd spaces-use your imagination. As I said in the video I will be doing another video on a different circuit and after that will do one on adding power pickups. Also, some cars like the caboose I showed come with power pickups and in some cases lights installed so this circuit can be shoehorned in to provide the stay alive power. I simply cannot cover all the various situations that this circuit can be used in, so I have to leave that part up to you to figure out. However because of the various requests I will go ahead and move the power pickup video to Monday so watch for it.
Do you need to have a separate 2nd resistor for the capacitor itself, or can you use the same singe resistor you use for the LED?
@@markmatteo2417 No, the capacitor will only charge to the voltage it gets from the bridge rectifier which will be about 1.5v less than track voltage. So always use one rated a higher voltage than what your track is set for. The trim pot will take care of voltage going to the LEDs.
Thank you for this helpful video- from Tomar Industries
Thank you. A train buddy pointed the way to your videos. Just the last two days I’ve been trying to teach myself how to install a cap in a caboose for flicker free lighting. Perfect
Love the concept but I'd want to make up a small circuit board for this! I've an ambition to use a Hall switch in the roof so you can tap the vehicle with a magnet on a stick to turn the lighting on or off - an accessory decoder seems like overkill!
Just built three of these circuits for my old Rivarossi passenger cars. They work great! Thank you. I really enjoy your videos.
Fantastic tutorial Dave. I'm wiring some 2 rail O Scale passenger cars and this really helped. Appreciate your channel so much!
Great video. Very informative. Can’t wait to try it!
Thanks Larry!
Thanks Larry
The circuit looks great and solves a lot of cost savings.
You are very welcome
Thanks Larry.
Very informative.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks, Larry! A very timely video - I was just wondering today about non-flickering lighting in a caboose!
Very welcome
Hi, I like to keep tucked with you for more information. Best Regards to you.
Looking forward to the next video - I'm hoping to use this circuit to create something for my N Scale passenger cars and, if possible my Cabeese - I have seen another video on the same subject from Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine, but you made it very clear and concise - Thank you! Greg, Melbourne, Australia.
Greg, the next circuit may be smaller since it will use supercaps, but the voltage regulator part of the circuit is a little over 11x17mm so may be a touch too big. If you plan to use individual LEDs instead of the light strips then a small electrolytic cap might work in place of my 1000uF one.
Thank you Larry. That's very clear and informative for someone like me who knows nothing about electronics. I recon even I could build that successfully! Thanks again.
Glad to help
Thank you for your support to my request
Most welcome 😊
I just found out that the "Radial electrolytic capacitor 1000uF, 25V" is the BIG one, not the smaller one since that's what I ordered. Fortunately, I think I can use these since I am doing passenger cars. Still, I was expecting the one you used.
Let's be honest your spare parts bin is most likely better stocked than some model shops! 😉
Great video however!
Yes, it’s been filling for over 40 years!
@@TheDCCGuy really enjoying your videos. I have been binge watching over the past week.
Thanks Larry for the great video. Been wanting to do this for years.
I would like to use a function output form an old DCC decoder to control (ON & OFF)
the lights in a caboose. Could I use the circuit you describe in the video, by using the
blue wire (+) and the purple wire (-)from the decoder. I wouldn’t need the bridge rectifier
as the output from the decoder is DC.
What are you thoughts. Thanks
My main question would be how the decoder will respond to the demand from the capacitor, it may take it a d may not. I have never tried that type of arrangement.
I have some older coaches that have DC lighting. Do you have a video that shows how to convert to use on a DCC system? I have been told the DC lighting will likely burn out when used on DCC track.
Very interesting. Will you demonstrate for N scale?
Jerry, sorry but I don’t have any N-scale equipment. But I will provide suggestions for N-scale power pickup in the next video. I am not sure that this circuit could be made to fit in N-scale cabooses but maybe passenger cars. You might experiment with smaller caps such as a 470 uF, 16-25V and see if that will provide adequate keep alive and also fit. I am not sure that my next circuit will fit N-scale any better but I’ll let you know once all the components arrive and I have a chance to see how small I can make it.
Larry, enjoyed the video. I am trying to light red leds on the rear end of a passenger coach.
I have a problem coming up a way to build a voltage contact pickup from the trucks. I checked on line for pickup trucks and copper wiper kits, the suppliers I found are out of stock.
Do you have a video or any idea on how to get power from the trucks that is dependable.
George, see my comment posted under this topic and in the description.
Keep thatch with you
Can you discuss the use of magnetic switches to control lighting in cars. Who are they available from? Thanks.
These are difficult to find except on eBay and I have seen them there. As the name implies these are small reed switches comprising 2 pieces of metal and when a magnet is passed over them it either pulls them together or separates them closing or opening the circuit. They are often used in household security systems to detect when doors or windows are opened. As I said do a search on eBay for magnetic reed switches. In locomotives and rolling stock they can be placed in the circuit and when you pass a magnet over them it turn the lights on or off depending on whether the reed switch is normally open (NO) or normally close (NC).
Larry, Thank you! This is very timely! On a similar note (Keep-Alives) are there any inherent problems with permanently consisting two identical locos, one with an Econami + Currentkeeper; the other with an NCE D13NHP which includes a small No-Halt. Would the two keep-alives interact negatively? Thanks!
I wouldn’t think so. The main issue if that you won’t be able to use F11 braking since the NCE decoder does not support it.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks, Larry! Appreciate it!
Im not suer when this video was made but in watching and going through comments question I have in saving space can or have you an idea using smd capacitors can it be done and how do you tell what is positive side and size
I have not looked for comparable smd devices and instead moved on to the smaller version shown in the followup video.
Hello Larry. Great video and thanks. I understand the circuit, but... you left out how to put it into the caboose, so now what? Isn't the inside of the caboose (or any other rolling stock) vacant? Is there something inside the caboose that routes track voltage to the inside of the shell, and then you solder something to it? I don't have a caboose yet, so I don't know.
Yeah that looks like it could be tough to squeeze into a caboose or coach and hide it.
I will be doing another video on how to install power pickups to get power from the track and install the circuit. I just didn’t want to make this a 1 hour video, and with 2 part videos viewers numbers plummet so I didn’t want to call it that. Some cars like the LifeLike caboose and many Walthers passenger cars come with power pickup even if lights are an option. This circuit can be made compact enough to fit flat on the floor of a car or be stuck to the inside of the roof. It can be made flat using a piece of perf board or put together as I demonstrated. The individual car will dictate its own best configuration. Look for the power pickup video on Monday.
NIICE! Now I have a question, I NOT DCC.... I run Analog and need to do muh the same thing using a MRC power pack, That said, do I NEED the Rectifier? As the power coming off my MRC analog power pack already has one, and that said is already DC not AC.... ?
Assuming you mean track power then yes it is DC but I am not sure these would,work well for you. With DCC there is about 13-14 volts on the rails all the time so the capacitors stay charged and only have to provide power for very brief periods when the car goes over dirty track. With DC every time you stop the loco the lights would go off after a few seconds as the capacitor discharges. A better solution might be small rechargeable batteries with a recharge circuit-easy to find on the internet.
Hi Larry, A very informative video! I only have one question and it is on what the wattage the in rush resistor should be?
A 1/4W should do unless you are really going overboard with the LEDs.
@@TheDCCGuy Perfect! Thanks for the quick reply and advice. I really enjoy your page . Jim
Old Model Railroader - NEW subscriber!!
That is SO clever!! Cheap and easy too. 😊 So, could I build that with a 1k ohm resistor instead of the Pot??
Just looking for even simpler... Thanks! 😁
Carmine ✈🚂🚙
The size of the resistor will depend on how many LEDs are in the strip and how much light you want in the caboose or car. The trim pot is essentially a variable resistor so you can easily set it for whatever choice you want.
Thanks for replying! I guess the Trim Pot isn't exactly adding a lot of complexity.... and is an option.
My thought was, if I calculated the resistance value needed for DC... Wouldn't it work with this setup?
Not trying to be difficult, just curious.
Sure, it will work, give it a try, resistors are cheap.
Larry,
I am an n scaler. Will the components you suggested fit in n scale cabooses? If not could you point me in the direction I might travel to get the components that will fit? Thanks
Fred-I am working on a smaller circuit that might fit better in N-scale equipment. The problem with the one shown in the video is the 1000uF capacitor is a bit big. I still need to test some other smaller caps to see if they will provide sufficient holdup time. It would help for me to know the internal dimensions of a typical N-scale caboose.
Follow up with you
I miss Radio Shack.
what is the trim pot range of resistance and wattage rating? Isn't 100 Ohm too low to connect to the DCC rails (~12.5 AC) ? a schematic of the circuit would be helpful.
I’s a 10K pot, there is a parts lost in the description. As for wattage, it will only see what the LEDs wattage is and that is negligible.
Do you have to wire both trucks or just one? Thanks for the video
Depends on how you provide power pickup on the trucks. If you pick up power from both rails on the truck then you can only do one. But if you pick up power from one rail on one truck and the other rail on the other truck then yes you need to do both. However keep in mind that power on all wheels on both trucks will give you much more dependable power.
Thank you very much for the quick reply,
Regards,
Jim@@TheDCCGuy Thank
@LarryPuckett can the leads on the bridge rectifier be trimmed shorter in any way? I understand that the parts look A LOT bigger than they really are, but just out of curiosity.
Also, just out of curiosity, can the trim pod be wired to TWO light setups, so that when the knob gets turned one way one LED gets brighter and the other dimmer, and then when it gets turned the other way the one gets dimmer and the other brighter? My mental gears are turning at full speed right now trying to imagine a use for such a setup....
Maybe a Christmas light setup using the fiber optic lighting method described in the January 2020 Model Railroader.
Or better yet, lights on a microwave tower as they used to operate up until the mid- to late-2000s or so.
You can trim them back as far as you want as long as there is something left to solder to. As for your other question the pot is just a variable resistor-turn it one way and voltage goes down, the other way it goes back up.
larry, another informative video, I have a dcc question, i am putting together a point to point layout on an upper deck of a logging camp with a rail served town at the other end, i want to put in a turntable at the town end to turn the locomotives around, how would i take care of the polarity on the rails when i head the trains back out towards the logging end of the layout?
That depends on how you plan to build the turntable. I covered that in my wiring book as well as in the March 2018 issue of MR.
@@TheDCCGuy it will be a out of the box turntable, and i looked in mar 2018 dcc corner and i did not find any information.
I’m sorry it was Feb 2018 page 66-67. Commercial turntables use different methods for separating the ring rails to prevent reversing issues. The old Atlas plastic ones had some kind of autoreversing design but most commercial ones use split rings or other approaches. What do the instructions that came with it say about providing reversing circuitry? At any rate you can easily use an autoreversing circuit like those made by Digitrax, DCC Specialties, MRC and others. I prefer a dual Frog Juice configured as an autoreverser. It worked the first time I installed it and has never missed a beat. You can get a good price from sellers on eBay or Litchfield Station (www.litchfieldstation.com).
@@TheDCCGuy thank you sir appriciate it.
I am a G scale hobbyist. Can I use this same circuit or do I need the larger components?
I run 24 volt power supplies on my rails.
Thank you
I think the voltage regulator boards are only rated to 23volts. Check on eBay for a board with a higher rating or go to the other circuit.
Larry, I do not run DCCC, only 12 volt DC. will this circuit work for me?
Not really, it is designed to be used where there is full power on the track all the time, that keeps the capacitor charged up enough to light the LED.
I have a bunch of 24 volt leftover sections of LED tape. Can I use this circuit with them?
I have never worked with anything but the 12 volt strings so don’t know how these are wired. Given they are rated at 24 volts they’re unlikely to work at all with anything much less than that.
Just to find out I hooked up a 12 VDC wall wart and got plenty of brightness on a section about 16" long. In fact I got some illumination down to 6 volts. So I guess the question would be do you think the stay-alive circuit would still work or ?@@TheDCCGuy
Okay, now I'm confused. I watched your other video and it says this won't work for strip LEDs because they require 12 volts and with this one it seems to work fine. What is the output voltage here? Are these 3v strip lights?
Light strips like those sold for use under kitchen cabinets require a 12 VDC power supply. Individual white LEDs require about 3 VDC and in my smaller circuit I set it for 3 VDC accordingly. So you have 2 options for lighting cars, one smaller than the other. I did the second one for folks wanting to use individual LEDs working in N-scale.
@@TheDCCGuy I am looking to light passenger cars in HO using strip lighting so the output for them is right in the second video showing the strip lights?
Hi DCC Guy.
I like to know from where I can have the lighting for street and house for the layout HO Scale.
Best Regards
I assume you mean where can you purchase these? Check the Walthers online catalog at www.walthers.com and then order from them or find a shop that sells the products you want. If you are not in North America you will need to locate a shop that does mail order. Many hobby mail order companies around the world sell Woodland Scenics lighting products.
@@TheDCCGuy
Thank you for your support to my request. I am living outside at SAUDI ARABIA, I very interesting in the HO Scale trains.
Hi Larry,
I'm one of those obviously challenged model railway enthusiasts.
I have tried a couple of times putting this circuit together and while the lighting comes on successfully the minute i remove from power source the lights go out.
The Con-Cor HO PRR Baggage Mail car 0001-094031 came with a factory installed lighting circuit board with 6 yellow toned LEDs. This unit flickers badly, being the worst ive encountered hence the wanting to install this stay alive circuit.
Your knowledge and help would br greatly appreciated as i am obviously missing something.
Cheers Mark (Karaka Model Railroad).
It is possible that the ConCor circuit is drawing more current than the stay alive can support. Just to test your build try it with just a single LED and if that works then you have your answer.
@@TheDCCGuy thankyou, will do.
How about brass truck on brass caboose?
Take a look at video #123, I think those would work for you. Be aware though that the bronze strip wraps under the little circuit board so you will need to insulate the underside of the board. Of course you could just swap in a set of plastic caboose trucks and no one will notice.
A very far out circuit.
However, wouldn't you want to wire a snubber into this circuit? It's my thought that the lighting keep alive would increase (dcc) noise on the track bus, thusly warranting a snubber. Or, would the inrush resister reduce noise caused by this circuit?
I don’t see why it would increase noise any more than any other circuit that uses DCC power.
If those lighting strips are used, how much draw is the 12v LEDs going to cause from DCC?
Thanks,
Mark
I just checked and the strip I used in the video pulls 0.03 amps or about the same as a small loco headlight bulb.
@@TheDCCGuy OK that's perfect but let's say I don't use a trim pot, what size resistor would bring that down to 12v? From a 14v DCC NCE system? Could I go with a 1 or 2k resistor?
Either should work. the 1K will be brighter of course, but Loksound uses 2.2K on the Direct boards. You might need to do a test with one of each. You also could use 1 trim pot, dial in the brightness, then measure the resistance value across it and know the exact size to use, it might be 1.5 K!
@@TheDCCGuy I tried a 2k but it seems to only light up the first 2 LEDs in the strip. Could that be too much resistance or am I just going to have to deal with 2 lights at a time?
Sorry, my mind was on individual LEDs when I answered you and that is too much resistance. You would want to use something much smaller. Since these strips are made to run at 12VDC you only need to drop from about 13V to 12V. Try 100 ohms and you may even need to go lower.
Don't wire an electrolytic capacitor directly across the DCC signal unless you want to see an explosion.
Larry, I'm doing something wrong. I bought the same components (see below) yet when I cut power the lights immediately go to very dim and then off. I've tried both a 850MF 16V CAPACITOR and a 1800mf 25 volt CAPACITOR. I must have screwed something up. Any idea what????
thanks
Mike Stewart
Resistor on track power leg of Bridge Rectifier to stop insurge of voltage from tripping CB on layout
1/2W Watt 0.5W Metal Film Resistor ±1% 1.8Ω 100Ω 620KΩ 5.6KΩ ~ 1MΩ Ohm
Trip POT to adjust brightness of lights
3296W-103 10K ohm 3296 Trim Pot Trimmer Potentiometer HM New
Capacitor to store energy for lights
820uF 25V Nichicon HV 25V820uF Super Low Impedance Capacitor 10x20mm
Bridge rectifier to convert AC voltage to DC voltage
International Rectifier DF01S 100V 1.5A Bridge Rectifier SDIP-4 SMD
Get out your volt ohm meter and test to make sure you are getting electrical pickup from the wheels and check the voltages at critical points in the circuit. On light weight cars extra weight can help improve pickup. Finally give the capacitor plenty of time to charge up, a couple of minutes may be necessary. Also these capacitors aren’t big enough to keep the light on very long are power is turned off, they just fill in during very brief interruptions to prevent flickering. I did a video (#120) on an improved version that uses super capacitors that can keep the light on a bit longer when power is interrupted so maybe that is what you are looking for.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry, I'm using wired power from the test track as I'm building a test sample using your video. (I have parts to build 30 of them for my pax trains). I'm getting 13.2 volts AC to the BR and dialing down to 8 volts DC to the Capacitor and lights. After a full 10 minutes of charging when I cut the power the lights immediately go to about 25% brightness and last at that level for about 10 seconds. Please see the listing for the capacitor in my original reply. maybe I'm using the wrong type.
It sounds like you have the trim pot in the wrong place, go back and look at the way I wired it. I put the capacitor directly on the DC output from the BR then put the trim pot between the cap and the LED. That way you’ll charge the cap to 13.2V and be able to adjust the LED down to its operating voltage. Just don’t expose the cap to a voltage greater than its rating.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry, I think I've narrowed it down to the capacitors I bought.
50pcs 820uF 25V Nichicon HV 25V820uF Super Low Impedance Capacitor 10x20mm
I even took one and wired it directly to the track with one LED and after 5 minutes when I cut track power the LED immediately went out. I bought some small 2.7v super capacitors and did the same experiment and the LED stayed on for 12 seconds.
I had hopes to use inexpensive single capacitors but It looks like I may have to string together 2.7v super caps to get my 12 volts. More expensive and larger but still only 1/4 the cost of a Keep Alive or Current Keeper.
Hi, any suggestions for making Walther's passenger lighting kits flicker free. The kit comes with a lighting circuit board with built in LEDs . Just very sensitive to dirty track , dust ect. Want to add a capacitor to store power, but do I need to still use all components as outlined in the video ?. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.
You would think they would have included a capacitor in the circuit. I have one of theirs somewhere so let me see if I can find it and see how it works.
@@TheDCCGuy hey that would be great if you can look into that. I bought five cars with five lighting kits and I just hate the way they flicker.. mind you I didn't like the metal contacts in the kit that powered the LED printed circuit so I had fabricated my own. So basically the way it works is the weights on both sides of the car are electrified and isolated from each other from the trucks. I soldered a wire from the weight to the printed circuit led board for both sides isolated of course, so current path is rail A to truck to metal weight on that side , then wire, then circuit board and rail B does the other side the weight then circuit board the same way. I did this because the Walthers Way was so flimsy, if you touch the roof the lights would shut off. I need something in the middle of the wires like a capacitor . Just a little unclear of the process. If there's any suggestions that would be great thank you.
The problem is the capacitor will need to be a polarized electrolytic type which means you need to feed it DC power not DCC. So you need a bridge rectifier in lone before the cap. The Walthers circuit may have that, I don’t know. The ideal approach would be to add the cap to the existing circuit if it has the rectifier, but that would be difficult to arrange. You might be able to just add a bridge rectifier and a cap in the wires from the track. The trouble is the Walthers circuit likely has a voltage regulator or resistors designed for a specific voltage range so you would likely need a 16V cap but it has to be big enough to give you the stay alive effect. Let me see if I can fond my old light board and see what might work.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks alot !
Good news and bad news. I found the box but it is empty so the circuit board is floating somewhere and did not turn up on my searches. I tested the dining car I bought it for and no lights so I guess I did not install it. It apparently is designed for DCC use and looking at the photo on the box it has 4 diodes to create a rectifier and what I assume is a voltage regulator to provide the correct voltage for the LEDS. So if this is correct, it should be possible to wire in a series of super caps to provide stay alive, but without experimenting one one I don’t want to go on the record providing a guess. I’ll keep looking for the board as I know it is down there somewhere, but it has been almost 10:years since I last saw it.
Would it work for Tsunami Sound Car?
No, best to use a Current Keeper or similar stay alive.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks . . Using your previous KA home brew, what would you recommend for the Cap mF rate for sound car? Tks
I discussed using different components in video #31. The basic design should work but I have never tried it.
@@TheDCCGuy OK, will give that a try and work my way up in capacitance. Space in a caboose and covered gondola is a premium. Tks