Why NASA Uses A 1970's Boeing 727 For Zero G Experiments.
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 06. 2022
- There's a lot to know about the Boeing 727, why it was built, why it was chosen by Zero G Corporation. Why 3 engines is better than 2 for this application, and... why the exploits of Hijacker DB Cooper forced a design change on the aircraft which would be named after him.
Follow me on Twitter for more updates:
/ djsnm
I have a discord server where I regularly turn up:
/ discord
If you really like what I do you can support me directly through Patreon
/ scottmanley - Věda a technologie
N794AJ... The last operator was AmeriJet International in Miami, Florida-a freight operator which I happened to work for during the conversion of this 727 to Zero G... the Fedex Stage 3 Hush kits were installed by AmeriJet and so were the winglets... I was there working as a technician for the first Zero G flights... Interesting point is that during weekdays the same aircraft flew as a freighter and on Friday nights we took out the cargo restraining system and retrofitted it for Zero G flights by adding all the padding-seats,oxygen bottles and everything else needed for the operation ( that huge cargo door made this possible and quite easy ) . The hydraulic reservoirs were modified to be bypassed by operating some valves so that no air was at the top of the tank ( known as head pressure ) because the hydraulic fluid would go to the top of the tank during zero gravity and the pumps would cavitate and self destroy... it was quite an interesting experience and am glad that it was part of my aviation career... thanks for the great videos Scott -I always look fwd to your upcoming ones !
That clears several questions I had!
Thanks for the first hand info :-)
The modifications to the hydraulic system makes sense to me now - being used to pressure pumps designed for water, I was assuming that there was a bladder that kept the water / oil and air separate, but I can see why not having one would be a problem.
It was around 1998 as far as I can tell when they added the winglets, Stage III hush kits, of which seem to be FedEx lightweight hush kits since they still use the original tailpipes and not the more common extended tailpipes of the heavyweight hush kits, along with the number 2 engine’s reverser removed.
Some operators Stage III modified their non Stage III jets even prior to the January 1st, 2000 deadline for non Stage III jet aircraft over 75,000 pounds, of which I believe the FAA filed this new regulation in 1994 or so.
Hush kits are the worse, but they are still loud as hell even with them, they primarily eliminate the exhaust crackle.
Interesting to hear that you started working on the conversion on the weekends but kept regular freight operations during the week.
This was the generation of technology coming out when I was studying aerospace engineering. Many of my fellow students were on a track to becoming commercial pilots, the 727 was the hot rod that they wanted to fly back then. High thrust to weight ratio, can land and take off just about anywhere. Only a job flying business jets, especially the Lear 20 series, was more desirable.
Should also note that our drinking game in the dorms was identifying the transports coming in for landings on the north runways of LAX by the sound of their engines. They came in right over our heads at Northrop University.
@@saundby I remember doing the same thing at Embry-Riddle Daytona campus since it was attached to Daytona airport. We joked you could always tell the freshmen since they'd look up and get excited when they heard the Delta jets fly over because of their lower bypass engines.
Lear 23? Nahhhhh. G2SP retrofitted with military surplus Phantom afterburners. Yeah yeah, you got a phone number for me to call, what else is new
When the 727-200s were introduced they were underpowered and pilots nicknamed them the lead sleds. Boeing eventually equipped them with more powerful engines but the nickname stuck.
@@saundby I learned to do that with military jets at my job south of Carswell AFB. Which led to that day leading up to an airshow where I went, "What the HELL is that screaming noise?!" and turned around to see a B-52 on approach.
Hey Scott. Another good video. I want to reiterate NASA had absolutely nothing to do with our company or our FAA certification process. The only connection was that I was employed there through 1999 and Byron Flew as a Payload Specialist on two spacelab missions. Truth be told, if anything it was someone antagonistic. With that said, Bob Williams was the director of operations for the KC-135 for 25 years and he and I worked closely together at NASA MSFC/JSC.
When he retired we consulted for the two sequels of The Matrix, and ZeroG did a week’s worth of research flights for Warner Brothers (our first commercial flights) to in September 2000 to make sure that their concepts of visual effect were accurate. We took master Woo-Ping Yuen and the entire martial arts stunt team (Chad Stahelski was keanu reeves stunt double then) and did a lot of weightless fight scenes in simulated rain storms. We dumped 45 L of water during every parabola and lined the entire plane with a giant “condom” to catch it during pullout and recycled the water for the next parabola.
We validated costumes, ZeroG blood hits, 15 ft flames and other amazing things we had never done or would be able to do at NASA.
The point is that our business started in 1993 and we raised the capital to get it off the ground and flying well before NASA became a client. They didn’t help us with certification and the FAA typically responded - we don’t care what NASA did, you’re flying part 121. The FAA was ultimately supportive, but it took many many meetings and compromises.
Finally on the 727 choice…. The air stairs were a big deal, but if you read our patent the biggest sell was that magic economy of aircraft maintenance ops balancing aircraft take off landing cycles, operation hours, and time in how these things impact A, B, C, and D checks. UPS had a fleet of 200+727s in operation in the 90s as the 727 rolled from high cycle passenger routes (8x Day) to low cycle (2x day) and so there were a lot of them flying and it really fit our business model as is described in the patent. Our plane gets a lot more inspection relative to a standard cargo ops plane hours since we don’t fly as often. Parabolas also don’t stress the plane the way say a hard landing or thunderstorm might (we flight validated a 50,000 node FEM with strain gauges during our early days). There’s no reason we can’t use it for quite a while longer. It’s got a lot of life left.
Hope that helps. I know the weightless part, NASA’s history, and NASA as a currentclient blurs the line, but there wasn’t much overlap or conversation outside of the internal expertise of Bob, Byron, and me. Our extended team was really first class and it’s still unbelievable to me that we pulled it off.
Thanks again for diving into this geek fest. Absolutely LOVE all the comments.
To be clear, one reason I have NASA in the title is because it’s shorthand for ‘space stuff’. I wasn’t clear on how much of the publicly available NASA experience and hardware heritage could apply, but I figured it was more than zero. Anyway, I wish I’d had this information before I recorded this last night.
@@scottmanley it’s remains the best pair of videos on our journey that we’ve done. Can’t wait to take you again one day soon! Let’s figure out when and where. Thank you for doing this and also allowing me to chime in with back stories. Honestly, few believed us in the days of ZeroG, XPrize, and Space Adventures and every day (most often by content on your channel) I’m reminded that we were indeed on the the path that history has shown to be correct. Reach out on one of my social accounts and let’s coordinate making this happen again and we can go even deeper into the rabbit hole. Who knows, perhaps we can pull off an entire flight of channel followers. I’ll toss my hat in the ring to be there. Maybe I can get Peter and Byron to come as well? Another fun fact - other than the FAA flights in the late 90s, the three founders haven’t been on a flight together since. There’s always been one conflict or another. Maybe it’s time to end that track record…23 years later.
There was one other more recent case of someone parachuting from the airstair door of a 727. In 2012, a 727-200 was deliberately crashed in the Mexican desert for a TV production as a test of crash survivability. The aircraft was fitted with a remote control system so a pilot in a nearby chase aircraft could control the final decent but the 727 required a crew onboard for takeoff and flight to the are of the crash because it was flying thru controlled airspace above populated areas. The flight crew bailed out once they were in the test are and the remote pilot had taken over. For the experiment, the air stairs themselves were removed so they had a safe jump space thru the opening. Interestingly, none of the air crew were certified skydivers so they had three professional skydive instructors on board to take them out in tandem jump rigs. All six personnel successfully exited and landed under canopies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Boeing_727_crash_experiment
It's plain to see you're making these out of pure, genuine enthusiasm. You love to see it.
plane*
missed pun opportunity :(
The smile plastered across his face the entire video is all the evidence of that we need.
In common parlance, one might even call it a shit eating grin.
Aye, he's having fun, but you have to remember Mr Manley is Scottish. :)
Funny story told to me when I was doing my PPL back in 2000... a 727 had just left the gate (forget the airport) and was taxiing across the apron, when the flight crew received a request to stop and take on another crew who were “deadheading” to another aircraft in another city. The captain stopped the plane and the rear air stairs were lowered so the spare crew could board. As the fully uniformed captain, first officer and flight engineer dashed up the stairs and past the passengers towards the front of the aircraft, one of them was heard to exclaim “My god, I didn’t know the stewardesses even knew how to start the engines!” 😄
Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.
Love the rambling. One of the main draws to your channel for me is that you allow your curiosity to get the better of you, and fall straight down that rabbit hole. You share very interesting details that clearly come from a curious mind, which sets you well apart from most of the content on youtube, where curiosity eventually gets crushed by the job of producing regular content.
Thanks for the fascinating detailed content!!
His videos are just so much less scripted than most other science channels and that really makes this channel special.
Many years ago, probably late 70's I was on a 727 flight to LAX where the gate wouldn't connect to the plane. So all of us passengers exited using the tail stairs in a heavy rain. Interesting experience.
I think it was really common on 727s and DC9s but also MD8xs. I did it several times in the 2000s when flying with MD82/83
BAC 1-11's also had these steps directly below the APU. It was a noisy way out of the plane.
Yeah. When gates are full at DCA airport, we had to exit through the tail.
Another bit of 727 trivia: in 1979 a TWA 727 went into a steep dive and reportedly maxed out at Mach 1.012. That airframe is pretty amazing.
I work at DHL Express and I can tell, even with hush kits, I can tell when a 727 is taxi-ing along the ramp compared to the 757, 767, 777, and 747 freighters. They just so so damn loud and high pitched. Which makes sense though as those engines were the days of just brute force from raw exhaust for more power in what we call a low bypass config today. Now we have the reduction gears to allow for high bypass designs where you are powered forth less on the raw exhaust.
I don't think any of those have reduction gears in the sense you mean. The 727 has JT8 turbojet engines, while the others have turbofan engines. Turbojets have no bypass.
Most fighter "jets" have low-bypass turbofans where most of the thrust is provided by the exhaust and the air that bypasses the engine core is used for cooling.
The other planes you mentioned have high-bypass turbofans where the majority of thrust is provided by the turbine driven fan at the front instead of the roaring exhaust.
As a side note, 767s with the CF6 engines have an annoying warbling out of phase whine while taxiing.
But oddly, more "contrails"?
@@coryray8436 the reduction gears are to reduce the rotational speed of the shaft from that of the turbine so the fan blades aren't supersonic
@@FaustoTheBoozehound Most turbofans don't have that. AFAIK, none of the planes you mentioned have that mechanism.
@@katiekane5247
No. Moar [sic] flights ...
My wife and I took a ride in this plane out of Houston's Hobby Airport, along with a few actual NASA astronauts in training and a bunch of other folks. I was expecting the experience to be more dramatic, but I actually felt extremely calm and unbothered by the weightlessness. Wife and I were 100% ready to sign up for spaceflight immediately following - we both thoroughly enjoyed it and it was NOTHING like the weird stomach feeling you get in turbulence. TOTALLY would do again.
It makes you wonder what real benefit do astronauts get from this.
That coffee table is cool, but I learnt from experience: don't buy glass coffee tables. They'll *always* be dirty. Unless you enjoying cleaning windows every day, it's just not worth it.
Well it's sort of like white vs stainless refrigerators. The white one might always look clean but the finger smudges and dirt are still there.
My old boss, Ivan Jazslics, was the lead designer on the 727 and there was one thing about the design he was particularly proud of and never ceased to mention. As a safety feature he said he made sure the 727 could pull out of a terminal dive and criticized more modern passenger aircraft because an attempt to pull out of a terminal dive would result in pulling the wings off. I'm not a pilot and it's been about 15 years since I've heard is aeronautical yarns. But could it also be that Zero G uses the 727 because the airframe is robust enough to withstand the successive loading and unloading of the wings with much less fear of metal fatigue?
I believe that tale is not totally true. It is not the pulling out that is limiting. Just do it gently enough.
It will take longer and you may run out of altitude doing it before you level off, turning the point moot. Also parts may bend and fall off from overspeed in the dive, but that has nothing to do with the pull-out itself.
It is perfectly possible that the 727 has a greater margin to do all that than other aircraft. But in principle you can always at least start pulling out...
As a guess, this being off to the side from my area of expertise, Jazslics may have been referring to something flutter-related rather than say strength in bending: A torsionally stiffer wing which could better resist flutter? All airliner wings have to be very strong in bending. The static proof test for the original 707 wing had its tip IIRC 17 feet above the starting point... and then, per FAA certification requirement, proper operation all of the flaps ailerons etc had to be demonstrated.
Here's another interesting fact to fuel your new found love for the 727, Scott: the aircraft is capable of JATO (strap solid fuel rockets on the back for assisting takeoff). The 727 is gorgeous.
@@plab0187 so? ...
@@plab0187 Name me another modern commercial airliner (not military strategic transport) that was rated for JATO use.
I'll wait.
Perhaps due to my age and my long love of aviation. There are three commercial Airliners that I'll never forget. First the Lockheed Super constellation, then the Boeing 727 and the 757. Not only great engineering but very aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Great video Thank you.
If you enjoy the 727 don't you have some love for the L-1011? :) My uncle worked restoring one of the few remaining Super Connies for Breitling. Unfortunately didn't get to see it due to living abroad but I know it was hell of a job. They needed some hydraulic components for one of the wings, must have taken 3 years to find it, possibly custom built I don't remember. They did get her to fly in the end.
My father was a medium bomber mechanic in the airforce, and he loved the super connies! Of course when he was serving, the connies were used as mid air refueling for strategic bombers.
Imma throw in a shout out for the Vicker VC-10 and super VC-10 - looked like something out of Thunderbirds.
DC-9 MD series are included in my classic never forget birds.
The noise was a real surprise to our research team when I did my Zero-G flight. We had to work in tandem to move some things around inside a glove box during the hyper-G maneuver to get ready for the next parabola and between the air noise, engine noise and covid masks, no one could communicate effectively. Headsets are a must for this December's research campaign.
What’s the research? All I can think, fit that little time, it’s crystal growth it something
@@float32 we were trying to validate cratering models in varying gravity levels with regolith simulants. Our profile had 10 mars, 10 lunar, and 10 zero g parabolas. Lots of other experiments are focused on fluid or gas dynamics, human physiological responses to varying gravity etc.
The 727's primary advantage is it's 410 KIAS limit speed. Outright legend compared to what's flying now, limited in the 310-360 KIAS range.
It's very interesting to see, that in the US they also use these very old aircraft. The Airbus A300 used in Europe was the first of the line and after the two prototypes were pulled out of service it was the oldest airbus (!) in active service. When I was doing scientific experiments on a zeroG campaign, I was told, that there were two main reasons they used the A300. First, they wanted the computers to stay out of the loop as much as possible and since Airbus very quickly adopted Fly-by-Wire with the A320, the A300 was their only choice. Second, in most other types of Aircraft, as Scott mentioned, zeroG is is explicitly prohibited while it is not for the A300 (hence, it's allowed :D ).
The same logic is true for some military aircraft. In the swiss research team, I was working as a student, there was also a swiss fighter pilot, who was part-time doing research at the university. He realized, that his old Tiger II F-5 jet did not have any explicit restrictions on zeroG either and he was able to use the magazine box of the gun as storage space for biological zeroG experiments. Very cool stuff and the best student job I ever had!
Yeah, the 727 is being operated in it's normal flight envelope and thus can be flown under Part 121. Good luck trying to get the same STC for an FBW aircraft. You could probably still do the same with 737s.
I am curious, though. The pilots at Novespace told me, that there is nothing special with the A300 (and I assume the B727). They assumed, that Airbus just forget to mention zeroG in their guidelines, while for modern planes, the companies just put a disclaimer in, because they don't want (and don't need) to certify it. This would mean, that there is nothing fundamental prohibiting the use of modern planes for this, except legal issues and probably sensors/Avionics.
@@janusseaman152 I wonder if the computers would allow such manoeuvers or intercept. At least a lot of warnings might be annoying :D
I lived right under the approach to DFW in the early 2k’s and would spend lots of time plane watching at a little park right at the end of one of the runways and you could always tell when a 727 was going to come over because of its unique engine sound.
Visited there many times. Always fun to hear the swirls a few seconds after they passed by!
The 727 is the first aircraft I ever did an engine run on, very fun and way harder than modern aircraft. Fuel addition is controlled manually, so you have to watch for oil pressure and N2 speed.
compare that to a Global 6000 or 7500, and its just a switch. One of those 1" tall pull ones you see on small aircraft, that's all it takes to start it.
Yikes. The dudes flying 727 fire tankers must be amazingly talented.
Guilford Tech Community College's 727 is the only actual jet I've ever run engines on. When you're used to something like a Cessna, those low bypass turbofans back there are a THING.
@@thebeast6494 agreed, but my experience is on globals and C130-J's so I cannot comment on modern airliners.
The 707 and 727 will always be my favorite airliners, and I hope many companies find second life uses for these beautiful aircraft. The drop-down stairs in the 727 are genius.
The 727 was my favorite commercial plane to be on. My favorite flight was an unscheduled one taking computer geeks back from a computer conference in Santa Cruz to SFO. Lots of geeks but no cargo and not a lot of luggage. We got off the ground really fast. It was mostly taken out of service because you couldn't replace the center engine with a higher-bypass one because it was basically inside the plane body.
These are my favorite airliner. In NZ, the Airforce had a few, and in the last year before retirement, at the airshows, they gave them hell. I watched the practice over what was then Wigram airfield, And they were doing climbing turns and banking way past 90 degrees. Awesome stuff. Love that plane.
First couple of Avalon Airshows this side of the Tasman, the last of the 727's in comercial service with one of the QANTAS subsidaries was used for flight displays, same sort wing over turns and sone high speed low passes that would make fighter pilots jealous and be agaist show rules now. Was great to see.
There was also a a300 flying zero g for the company noves pace. This one was retired in 2014.
Now they have a a310 flying zero g.
Both are twin aisle aircraft, there is a lot more room in them.
Fun fact: the a310 they are using was formerly the "konrad Adenauer", the aircraft used by the German chancellor.
The retired A300 is now located on a public parking lot at Cologne /Bonn Airport (CGN) 😊
@@nicolasblume1046 That A300 in question was MSN 003, an A300B2-103, which was the third Airbus ever built, and until its retirement in 2014 it was the world's oldest flying Airbus. I really wish that aircraft be moved into an indoor display as outdoor storage long term can bring a host of damage to the aircraft including corrosion. The original A300 cockpit is very fascinating and I really wish more people have a chance to see it.
Possibly has much less time on it than most A310s.
@@neilgerace355 You are propably right about flight hours. But I learned that they count each parabola as take-off/landing cycle for maintenance purposes. So those propably add up at least as quickly as in normal transport operations.
My dad was part of a program in the Air Force where they tested different civilian airplanes for doing stuff like commando drops, one of which was the 727. He started laughing at the part where you said the airflow would stop full deployment of the ramp in flight. He said it's totally possible to fully deploy the stairs in flight without modding the hydraulics; you just need to detach the Cooper vane from the retaining pins.
Watching yeseterday's video I realized how important the duck is. The only way I think it could be improved is if it was in a vacuum chamber and the logistics of fitting that into a cockpit AND having it be visible to the pilots would be... difficult
Or, automate it.
On a Soyuz launch I saw, they had similar toys hanging from strings. When they reached orbit, the toys flew forward and floated.
@@TaxPayingContributor That's on almost all launches on crewed vehicles. The first crewed Dragon flight had a dinosaur and the recent Starliner test had a Jeb.
@@FastSloth87 i saw that Im so happy Jebediah Kerman managed to get to space and back safely
god knows he dies to much when im playing KSP
edit:didnt remember jebs last name right
The ONLY catch here is that stronger inputs into the pitch will flick the tail up and down faster than the cockpit. So inputs that keep the duck fine up front don't exactly match the rear completely. Small inputs track just fine - but larger ones will definitely see the tail of the plane move around FAR more than the nose, simply because the tail is where the control surfaces/authority is locations.
Such a cool episode. Just Scott sharing his own excitement about cool stuff. Thanks Scott!
When I was a kid (70’s) a friend of ours was a 727 pilot. I see to recall him saying that if equipped with the right engines a 727 would have no trouble breaking the sound barrier because it was shown in testing it was pretty stable going through that choppy stage that keeps aircraft from crossing that barrier. I have nothing to back that up.
Thank You Scott Manley, the video was very interesting and well made. I enjoyed watching it. 👍👍
I remember reading a book back in the '70s about Boeing and the 747, including the history of the aircraft leading up to it. As Scott describes, the 707 set the baseline, but the 727 was able to use much smaller airports and shorter flights. It was referred to as the "Jeep" of airliners, and could almost hit Mach 1 in flight tests. I think it also pioneered "the wing that comes apart", the assortment of slats, flaps, ailerons and whatnot that allowed for a wide range of flight characteristics from low and slow to fast.
Also: _Thanks, Scott!_
And another trivia note: the Boeing 747 test pilot was our test pilot for our FAA test flights.
These aviation videos are awesome! I love it! I was just looking through my grandpas pilot log today from the 70s-90s. And the old school map/nav tool
This was an awesome video, Scott. Thanks for sharing what you learned with us.
I grew up in Austin, Texas when the airport was in town and, pretty much, the only jets that flew in there were 727s. Braniff, Texas International, and Continental were the only airlines. We walked out on the tarmac and climbed up roller stairs into the side door. Never got to go up those tail stairs.
Braniff: Believe it.
My first flight ever was on a Braniff 707 from San Antonio Int'l to Dallas, Love Field circa 1975. We flew up to Dallas to watch the Dallas Cowboys play. Back then, Bergstrom was still an Air Force Base and things far different than a Braniff 727 or a Southwest Airlines 737-800 flew from there.
16:39 Data is beautiful
I didn't enjoy the other video on zero G so much. Loved this one. Details and story is what I'm here for.
I was expecting the plane to have a set of smaller tanks that they could have a bladder to keep the fuel pressurised, so that it could be pumped without gravity.
Any change to critical parts of the plane require extensive testing plus regulator involvement. It seems, it is cheaper to fly with full tanks than to optimize fuel system for zero-G
The main (centre) tank is a bladder tank. They can use it to feed all engines. Probably use the wing tanks for the flight out and back.
Within each fuel tank of the 727 is a collector tank that contains the motive flow jet pumps and electric boost pumps. The collector tank is per it's name a central draining area, essentialy a smaller tank within the larger, that has check valves isolating it from the rest of the tank. This allows for there to be a constant source of fuel regardless of attitude or turbulence. The Engineer would keep all three fuel tank crossfeeds open during low G maneuvers. This way if too much fuel sloshes away from the motive flow pump volutes in one collector tank, then the others will be available to keep the manifolds pressurized.
The motive flow fuel pump (jet pump) is very reliable and needs very little maintenance. The motive flow is pressure fed by the boost pumps or by the return fuel coming from the engine pumps. Whichever has the higher pressure.
@@jpeterman57 Beautifully illustrated by Animagraffs' latest video, although using an Airbus A220, but the system is very similar.
I absolutely loved this and the previous video. I had to live vicariously through you through this adventure. Thanks for the great content. Fly safe!
I just love this episode! Thanks so much, Scott!!!
I have never been so entertained and paying attention to your videos like this. You clearly enjoyed this ride!
Nice to see you still bubbly after your zero G experience Scott. Stay safe and I'll catch you on the next one. Thanks for sharing.
The pursuit of DB Cooper is one of my favourite films that I haven't seen in decades!
Your enthusiasm and knowledge always bring a smile to my face.
Enjoyed both video's, thanks for sharing the experience!
Great video Scott! Thanks for all your insights.
The exhaust mixer table is very cool, but I want a coffee table made out of a Falcon 9 grid fin... And a living room large enough to put it in.
There's much smaller grid fins from bombs and such, you could probably find one cheap and it would be a more appropriate size for a table. Not as cool though.
Starship booster grid fin ! You know you've made it when you're living room is big enough for one of those bad boys 🤣
The one at SpaceX HQ is amazing!
I want a GE90 fan blade hanging from my roof! They sold a couple on eBay for like 5k$ like 5 years back!
@@rkan2 I want a whole jet engine to display. Not such a big one but maybe one from a business jet or so. I'm sure it can be found cheap on the scrapyard that's all busted up. And if I have a garden someday an old fighter jet. Sometimes you can find them for the price of materials if it's beyond saving.
My dad, brother, and I used to put together the supplemental electrical for tent city for a skydiving convention in our home town. A few years they brought in a 727 for the divers to jump out of and it was always fun watching the post jump videos from those runs. Never got to go up myself but it was always fun watching it fly over the drop zone and see all these little specs get sucked out the back.
Skydive Perris has been trying to get their DC-9 operational for like 15 years now also :P
Thats exactly what i wanted to know after your last video, thanks for this!
Thanks Scott, for another episode, right up my interest alley.
I love learning and I feed off the excitement and intrigue. Great work Scott. 😉
Really happy for you that you got to have this experience!!!
This adventure went to your head Scott, glad you had a smashing good time !.
Scott: great follow up to the last video. greatly appreciate the extra information and stories. Keep it up. :o)
The Picture at 5:32 seems to have been taken during the filming for Apollo 13 (The 1995 movie) with Tom Hanks in the center, Gary Sinise and Kevin Bacon to the left and Bill Paxton in the front left (all in grey)
Fantastic video once again Scott !
I just noticed how the 3 amber “Low Oil/Filter Bypass” lights under the gear handle come on whenever they’re at zero g. Interesting considering he talks about how oil starvation at zero g can ruin engines really fast 😂
Good catch! I went back and saw that as well.
I noticed that, too. I thought Scott would comment, but he didn't.
In the previous video the captain mentioned that they should worry if the lights *do not* come on. Lol
I think in the last video one of the pilots said it's expected and no warning lights would be the actual problem 😅
The door lights have rather simple proximity switches. They are not connected to the hydraulic system at all. They operate only with very high tension cables, pulleys and bell cranks. Notice also that they are amber, thus they indicate something between completely open or completely closed. Actual "gear position" lights are separate and are either green (down & locked/safe 👍 ), red(not safe/unlocked 👎 ) or OFF (up & locked).
I learned a ton about the B727 today. Really enjoyed today's video!
I love that the Zero-G 727 came from Braniff. My dad worked for them at their St Louis hub in the early to mid-70's.
I have fond memories of the 727. When I was a kid in Melbourne Florida when flying on Eastern Airlines, almost every flight was on an Eastern 727. Once we were lucky enough to fly on an Eastern L1011 "Whisperliner". It was a LOT quieter than the 727.
I could tell by that endless grin that you were really having fun with this video. 😁👍
Fascinating! A good use of otherwise retired planes (other than being converted into quirky homes!)
I would have liked to hear more about your experience of the zero-g trip and if you suffered anything afterwards...
Thanks to your previous video on the plane, you let your viewers 'experience it' for free... without suffering anything (!)
At least it seemed like I was on the plane in zero-g for a few minutes in my dream last night!
I was surprised I found myself there just from watching it online and was a bit anxious not knowing when the plane would suddenly get gravity again. Strange things dreams... You never know how you got somewhere or where you'll end up next!
It was as if I could just go to another place by watching it on CZcams then find myself there, but then when would I find myself transported somewhere else? The zero g plane seemed to take me half way around the world. Obviously travelling is much cheaper and less of an ordeal in dreams - like when I find myself in South Africa without having been queasy (and suffering with the pressure in the ears) on a long-haul flight, then it's so easy to get home - just wake up!
I don't think I ever want to go on a plane again in real life. Free adventures in dreams are much better!
I did the zeroG flight on this plane a few years ago. It was great to get a behind the scenes look at the operation. I love the zero G indicator, and the fact that it's all flown by hand.
Awesome video Scott…truly. Answered all the questions I was asking 👽
Very cool. Thanks for sharing! Glad you had a good time👍👍
Boeing was ran by engineer people and now by lousy accounting or lobbyist supplication specialists.
727 engineered well, relatively lower cost of operation!
It is not that very well known, but Britain and France were aviation technology leaders in the mid-20th century. E.g. the Sud-Aviation Caravelle was miles ahead and a major reference point for the DC9-MD80 etc... series. Boeing and MD then had their heyday in the 60s and 70s, while what would become Airbus was slowly getting its act together.
re: "Boeing was ran by engineer people and now by lousy accounting or lobbyist supplication specialists."
The old McDonald-Douglas ppl ...
As a retired enroute radar controller I always picked on the 727s in my sector for going fast or slow when spacing was needed. The pilot without hesitation responded "No problem". I rode in a 727 cockpit a few times as an observer and as Mr. Graybill stated the pilots loved this Boeing. Whether its true or not the crew stated it could max out in level flight at Mach .99.
Mmo is 0.90 on the 27 so certainly nobody ever went .99 on a commercial flight, but the difference at 30k feet is only 60mph so it is possible it could achieve .99 in level flight. That's obviously VERY transonic, though so possibly not easy nor a good idea to do it.
Thanks for the update on one of my favorite jets :)
Fascinating video! Great job!
Just know, if it makes you excited, it will be a hit with us. You enthusiasm and huge brain are why I am always here.
I work at the FBO you departed from, but it was my day off. Sorry I missed you. I gotta say The B 727 is one of my favorites, and we still see them fairly frequently between cargo flights and Zero G. The jt8 engines have a unique sound when they taxi (loud) and the APU positioned in the wing root is about as loud as it gets for the ground people. If you ask someone who has worked around 727 for a while, the answer is "WHAT?" (doesn't matter what the question is) I do however have a different take on how the hush kits work on the older jets, it is most apparent on the G2-G3 biz jets. They work by absorbing noise on takeoff and then releasing it on landing....just makes sense. Science.
I recommend "Mentour Pilot" as a youtube channel for any flight enthusiasts. He covers a lot of topics, but most of what he covers is accidents, what caused them, and what to learn from them. Good, extremely informative channel.
Cool. I'm glad 'you' did this, caz other YT'ers have and didn't come back with as much cool info
I think 0g flights would be a perfect task for the precision of a good autopilot. It seems like too much work to never actually get 0g perfectly.
Humans react better to out-of-parameter situations
Think of the tremendous hazzle, Boeing had with the flight-software and certification for the 737 MAX. Programming an autopilot for this task and getting it certified would be a nightmare (in other words: tremendously expensive).
Especially since there's no more than a handful of these planes flying with these parameters, the per unit cost will be even higher
I don't think programming something to essentially nose dive is a good idea
Also, if I recall correctly you literally can't do 0g manoeuvres on modern airliners, the software won't allow It
I remember being on a 727 as it backed away from the gate _under its own power,_ using its reverse thrusters, because the ground crew was on strike so there were no tractors running. I think it was Dallas, 1990-ish.
This is exactly the nerdy video I wanted to watch before heading off to work, thanks Scott!
Wonderful follow up! Details, details.... ubiquitous gravity vs engineering convenience.
Kudos for mentioning the Cooper vane, the D.B. Cooper story is fascinating!
Excellent follow up to your flight video, thanks
Scott, you’re going through what I went through when I started playing with mobile flight Sims on my phone; we’re going back six years now. And I started out with Rotos flight Sims which are limited and have dummy panels, but then I graduated to X Plane, which gradually got better, and now has almost fully simulated actuators - all on your phone, and this launched me down a rabbit hole of looking up flows & start up checklist information about the planes and the engines - and on a certain level, though it was fascinating, I was starting to get blow back I could actually relate to-from friends, saying, ‘ you’re in your 50s you’re not going to become a professional pilot’, and here I am in Japan, where I should be learning Japanese, and I’m spending hours and hours on flight Sims, filling notebooks with information on how to identify everything on the flight deck.
I also feel spoiled, because one of my favorite space content creators (Sorry, Amy’s really cute!) is now moving into aviation, which I used to feel was kind of a bulwark against my space interests; well, now you’ve got the bug - and so I’m happy for you, and I see that guilty pleasure And fear in your eyes, which says “oh my God!; here I go again! Can I ever get back?”
BTW: Check out the 737 NG on X Plane mobile. You won’y leave the room for 5 hours.
Welcome to the pilots life Scott. You will forever be a massive nerd along with the rest of us. Cheers!
Making that Cooper device out of stainless seems likely, but making it out of copper so the STC could be entitled the "Copper Cooper clapper caper" would be a fun throwback.
Make out of lead and it is called the "Pb Cooper..."
Great video! I got to fly on this lovely lady back in February 2020 as a special guest. I’ve been coming out to spot her since 2017 at LGB which is one of my local airports, which was also around the time I got to meet the flight crew, which you happened to meet them all as well. Great guys and gave me the once in a life time opportunity not only to do Zero Gravity, but to fly on a 727 at that, of which the only remaining ones flying are either Cargo or VIP private jets, so theoretically this is the only 727 still flying that still carries passengers.
As for the thing with hush kits, don’t let them fool you! It is still a very very loud bird. The FAA required all non Stage III noise compliant jetliners such as the 727 to be Stage III hushed and modified by January 1st, 2000 in order to continue to fly, unless operated by the military or is a testbed with an experimental SFA. What you mentioned is non Stage III business jets specifically jets that way under 75,000 pounds were left off the hook for 16 years after these regs for non Stage III Jetliners went into effect, and it wasn’t until January 1st, 2016 that all non Stage III business jets had to be Stage III hushed and modified, but still have the same exceptions if they are military or testbeds.
Some other countries do not have noise regulations for non Stage III civilian jet aircraft, although a lot of them you’ll see in those countries that do have hush kits on them were more then likely bought from the U.S after January 1st, 2000.
Love this plane and I have tons of videos of it doing operations out of LGB, along with my flight. One of the noise monitors at LGB has picked up as high as 108 decibels from this during a departure, where as on average all the other departing Jets are usually around 90-95 decibels, if we’re not counting the latest Stage IV noise Jets like the 737 MAX or Airbus NEO family and A220 which are in the 80 dB range.
727 best commercial jet ever, I fell in love with its acceleration when I was a young technician regularly travelling on either Fokker Frightship or 727
Hullo Scott, you are amazing! Love the content!
727 has always been my favorite short hop airplane. Flew on them hundreds of times in the late 60's and early 70's. There was a rumor back then that PSA (Pacific Southwest Airlines) had exceeded Mach 1 with one in a dive. Dunno, could happen I think.
I remember seeing a FedEx 727 being displayed at the Florida Air Museum in Lakeland, FL. It was so cool to see. Especially with the three engines.
Also, I can totally relate to you wanting to learn a lot about aircraft. I'm always looking at books and stuff about them.
I wish I was as enthusiastic about my life as Scott Manley is about 727 Exhaust-Mixers.
Cheers Scott, that was very interesting.
This was great! I got 24 hrs of flight instruction before the pandemic and hope to finish it, but this video was so good. I too was curious why an old 727 was being used. Such great reasoning and research!
Really good! Now there's another item out there, which I will never use, but about which I know a ton of fascinating information.
14:40 makes me think of United 232.
Which also was quite a feat of aviation. Even more so because they had not planned or trained for it or any warnign it was necessary.
Love the fascination with aviation, these videos are great.
Great channel. Love the Vomit Comet subject matter. BTW, the Saturn V model with gantry behind Scott is awesome. I want one. Cheers.
That is such an awesome plane! I noticed it parked at the local airport and its really cool to know how it works, great vid
I graduated from Vincennes University as an A&P Mechanic in ‘89. My first job as an A&P was on B727’s, it was a great job and I still have a soft spot for them. I even kept my B727 books from the B727 classes I took to get me familiar with the systems & engines. I was able to fly as a Flight Engineer on several flights, but decided that wasn’t for me, way too boring.
Even though we were cargo, we still had to preform regular inspections on the Cooper Locks.
The Hush Kits, called them The Cookie Cutter. The purpose of the Cookie Cutter was to mix the bypass air with the turbine air inside the nozzle cutting down on the sound by cutting down on the wind shear. Or at least that is what was explained to us Mechanics is most of the noise from the engines is the wind shear from the turbine air being hot and providing 90% of the thrust compared to the 10-ish% of the cooler bypass air. Back them they were called medium bypass, where as now they would be considered low bypass engines.
I think a 727 was designed (overbuilt), using a slide rule (three digits). Now, they build an airplane with many digits.(fine design margins). 727 is a flying abrams tank.
Interesting as hell, as always. Thanks!
one of the greatest scott manley episodes of all time!
I have read, and watched a lot of video around the "Cooper Story" over the years. This is the first time I've heard mention of the "Cooper Vane"! I vaguely remember something about a 'device', but it was never defined/described. It's very interesting when you think about it, it makes it impossible to "unlock" the air-stares in flight, no matter what. Very interesting!!! Thanks!! --gary
As a young man I flew in the 727 many times around central Australia. To avoid the thermals during summer the airlines used to fly up around 40 to 45 thousand feet. It was incredibly quiet and smooth. With the engine in the rear there was very little noise and that includes the white noise that is present on the newer airplanes
I don't know when I've seen you have more fun!
Love the exposed wiring and Jesus sticker in the cabin. Really gives that 70s country road bus atmosphere.