Do audiophiles really want perfect sound? The answer is yes they do! I would argue that perfect sound has been achieved from a shoppers perspective. HiFi gear today is outstanding at every price point from a fidelity perspective. I can reminisce the trippy times of Iron Butterfly on my DragonFly dac and be blown away by the feels and vibes of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, well that hippy shit was way before my time but I didn't miss out on the psychedelic 90's and early 2000's like Song for the Dead from Songs for the Deaf album I reminisce on. Anyway there's something for every audiophile at every price point to enjoy, sounds perfect to me.
For me growing up in the 60s and 70s..i heard all this great music on a transistor radio or maybe my parents console stereo. Or when i was 13 i got a stereo record player. We didnt hear this stuff in hi fi. The music for me is life, feeling, and memory . if it brings a smile to my face thru my new higher end rig Im happy. I dont need perfect. It cant create new memories, but it sure can take me back with a new clarity and enjoyment.
Is it The Herb and Steve HiFi Show or The Steve and Herb HiFi Show just talking and having lots of fun? Guys, you nailed it as its simply all about the music - distortion, imperfection, perfection and human perception! You guys remind me of Car Talk: Click and Clack on NPR radio - Tom and Ray Magliozzi! Those New England guys!
For me, it's about clarity. I want to be able to clearly hear every single note played by any instrument I choose to concentrate on. I also want it to be transparent. I want to hear the difference between bad recordings and awesome ones.
Well ... since I tried to help the poor by writing on here that SANYO JA-220 would give high end quality (it looks like junk I know), well the prices have rocketed and you'll never get one of these but ... there are broken ones of a similar appearance at low price. SANYO JA-220 has Toshiba Output transistors smaller but similar to the 1990s harman/kardon but its early 1980s. As a stock amplifier, you'd be amazed at the sound effects floating in the air. You'd have to use speakers like Tamon, I use the Realistic Optimus X-100 but they're refurbished.
as a child of the 70s and huge audio fan of the day back then. It's so much fun to hear you two chat about the 60s and the whole scene. Great job thank so much for sharing all of this.
Thanks for bringing back memories of a 12 year old making mix tapes with a 3 inch portable reel-to-reel tape recorder off AM radio. "Summer in the City" was on that tape 🥰.
Oh man I think this is my favourite Steve and Herb show! I remember getting the Blue Cheer record for Christmas when I was in grade 7, and I still have it!!! Yeah great music lives on forever AND no system is perfect “unless” is sucks you into the music enough to get lost for hours. Anyhow that was a great show guys.
I think that presenting each time an album that you like and Herb likes (or a new discovery) to describe its music, history and sound from your subjective audiophile perspective could be the core of your mix up . From this foundation a lots of interesting things can unfold . And imho this can be a very solid format for years. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
A painting of a scene can provoke more emotions than the actual thing ever can. Steve you mentioned the live concert that had bad audio. I would argue that’s what made it live and you loved it for that 😅
Haha, Blue Cheer through a pair of Cerwin Vegas. 60s nirvana. Had som fun with those bands. Electric Flag, Butterfield Blues Band, Jams Gang. Yes, The Airplane, Young Bloods, On and on. .
I LOVE this new segment that you both are doing. I found myself glued to the content of what you were discussing and how you presented it. Keep doing it. Its great! Very, very interesting. Both of you have years of insight that I have been clueless of. Listening to you two has made me very aware of that and I am appreciative of the fact that you're willing to share your experience and personal knowledge.
Hey Guys, happy to listen to You talking. I’m classical musician. I had Strads in my hands and I still prefer to listen Heifetz Strad on recording than play one myself. There is sth special in way they did recordings in vinyl times, that now… I hear it live in concert hall and I cannot wait I put my earphones, even Monoprice M350 and listen to it. It fits my taste even more
Had the chance to hear John Sabastian, who was pretty much the Loving Spoonfuls, in a small intimated venue just a few years ago. Solo. Close enough to touch. He talked about how each song came about. Struggles he was having as each song was written. What an incredible talent and person. Thanks for giving it some exposure! And now I have to find a copy of Nuggets!
@@stevelyman2944 Gotta be vinyl! I do have a number of variety ones like Dick Clarke and Greatest Hits of the ... and likely have many of those songs. Just seemed like a great complication to sit and listen to.
somehow I get the impression that Herb is on good behavior here. The feeling is that his passion is being restrained somewhat and if he ever decides to cut loose he will resemble Louis Black
Trying new gear and accessories is one of my favorite aspects of the hobby. They all have their pros and cons and they all add their bit of character to a system. I love to hear all those traits mixed together for different takes on music that I love. I agree that perfection would be boring. Personally, I think that my version of perfection lies in the love that you develop for a system with just the right combination of imperfections.
Felt almost silly when all of a sudden I realized I was grinning ear-to-ear, especially from about 10:35. And "...EQd for the [CAR] radio" too Herb! I was right THERE with you guys! Great thoughts and observations...loved it.
The Dynamic duo of Audiophilia 🤩 SO much appreciated !!! What about a video of why people like certain things in a system? Big sound stages, depth , resolution etc ? And what components excelled at specific qualities? I love depth and resolution….. 🤩
Everything about being an audiophile brings me bliss, even just reading about music and equipment as well all the CZcams reviews make me happy. I love all my gear and I have three systems. Also some music sounds its best on different set ups I have noticed, but I enjoy it very much regardless. They all "equipment" sound different and they all mix it up really well when I switch speakers out or switch the amps & receivers around. I bought the Dayton "HTA200 Tubes Hybrid and really Love it" and have solid state as well many different interconnects and three different kinds of speaker cables. I'm into all of it and regularly switch it all around depending which room Im going to listen and which gear I want to hear. It can only get better as newer gear burns in. I will be ordering the Tekton Troubadours in the future when the funds are there and am excited about that for sure. If I haven't played some gear or set of speakers for a while I have noticed that it all needs about an hour or so to feel warmed up and smoothed out and then it all just becomes so gorgeous and familiar. Thank you Steve for just the wonderful banter and great conversations I appreciate the sugggestion on the Dayton tube Hybrids. The 200 watt version has a decent remote and more power. Fascinating hobby and I really just love love love this life with it all. I have maybe more then 2000 albums just in LP's. Not so much cd's maybe 200 or so, and maybe 300 cassette tapes from back in the day. I still listen to FM most often and never stream. Love to hear Steve and Herb....
What makes the hifi audio hobby so much fun is different components can be moved in and out and change the "perfection". The only way to listen to 1950s and 1960s 45s is on a 1957 Motorola Masterpiece mono console. Now thats perfection!!
Love this video guys! I was a teenager when the Nuggets 45s were fresh off the presses so I know exactly what you mean...I have almost all the Lovin Spoonful 45s also
I don't have that Nuggets album, but I've got most all of those tunes in my collection--they were all Top 40 when I was in school. Thanks for confirming there is no perfection and further more, we don't need such perfection. All the best.
A lovely topic, I was just listening to my ever so precise system, and was really missing the blooming bass reverb of my previous system. I feel one of the reasons I listen to music is to be enveloped and bathed in sound, I don’t really care so much what the artist intended, I’m listening for me. But also I do seek the master mix experience from time to time, and I feel the best way to do that is to match the gear to the studio, which has gone through transformations over the decades. Our current high precision equipment is unprecedented and as such doesn’t deliver what was heard in the studio during the mix. But many mixes are sloppy and dirty and sometimes high precision helps bring a bit more clarity, helping voices and instruments shimmer and shine above the noise, but I’m also here for the noise, bring it on! Ha ha ha
AM powerhouse radio stations from the 60's demanded the mono mixes be tweeked up for radio airplay. I remember chatting with Rosalie Trombley once from CKLW who told me to hunt down the radio mono promos from the Mama's and the Papa's. All of those 45 cuts were demanded by her if they wanted their single aired on "The Big 8".
Life is not perfect and its better that way. Imperfection creates a uniqueness to something. Wabi-Sabi is the Japanese art of finding beauty in imperfections like, for example, Elizabeth Taylor's mole on her cheek.
Great show, love ya both! I have pro audio and home audio. Love em both for different reasons and mix them up. Currently listening to a crown xli 3500 amp fed by an RME ADI-2 PRO FS BE as dac and preamp. That feeds my ZU Omen Def Supreme speakers and dual RSL 12S subwoofers. Absolutely love it! Norridge over others thoughts. I just enjoy it!
I really like your conversations, Steve and Herb. There is something developing in the conversation that is exciting and lively, there is a "gestalt" developing about the subject. Over the years, you have both become audiophile philosophers and, to some extent, psychologists. Two examples of ideas from your conversation to illustrate. Herb, imagine if someone wanted to perfect an impressionist painting by Paul Gaugin through "higher resolution" haha. Steve, If there really is "real" sound in the living room in the future, then both the discovery and neurotic motivations to strive for "perfect" sound fall away. And the big loss would be if the personal ideals of what everyone considers "perfect" would be lost.
Heinz, I like your perspective on this. Me and Herb, we've been having these conversations for decades, and it's so great to document them for other people to see.
To me the point of "perfect" is being able to enjoy all of these different recordings without saying to myself "dammit I wish I had that other thing, then it would really sing". Building a system, (including the acquisition of a suitable room) that can bring out the musical value in every (well mastered vinyl, garage sale gimy, broadcast radio, livestreamed sports, old bootleg MP3s, mid quality CD from local bar show) recording one might be interested in, is non trivial. There are definitely system changes, or visits to other people's systems where certain things I knew I liked sounded forgettable. Then it gets even more complicated when you're trying to balance all the things a dedicated music system needs in order to draw things out of recordings with also fitting in exploring music videos and film (big glass panel ≠ easy set up for imaging, also distracting when you' want to be listening to just audio) and then ergonomics of being able to share everything the system has to offer with non-nerds. If my girlfriend is too shy about my turntable to put a record on by herself then it doesn't matter how good it sounds; if there are too many power switches or screen menus, if the speakers take up too much floor space to entertain people in the same room... For me, perfect sound would mean some more scale in orchestral stuff with at least the same level of deftness in textural, timbral discretion, while not giving up the crunch on rock that's supposed to sound crunchy (my last speaker-TT pairing in this system smoothed even lofi punk), while giving particular attention to speaking voices, for movies, tv, youtube, radio. I feel finally like I've got the bases basically covered finally. Not being a reviewer, and not having the budget/time/space to be swapping gear, the stuff I hold on to has to cover all the bases, which is far from easy.
Compact disc were touted as perfect back in the day, now everyone is going back to records or “vinyls” if wear skinny jeans. I find that some imperfections sound good
DACs and amplifiers have almost immeasurable distortion and have done for a very long time. So perfect electronics are indeed a thing with regards to reproducing the recorded signal in it’s purest form. Speakers and listening areas are where that reproduction falls down.
Perfect doesn't exist. The moment we all can buy 'perfect sound' alarm bells should ring for us... Remember when CDs were marketed as 'Perfect sound'...and it took us all 30 years to work our way back to 'imperfect' vinyl? Great video guys...
Benchmark ahb2 amplifier is a great example of perfection regarding being just an amplifier and perfect. Although it doesn't give any emotion, i would say that we're searching for our own subjective perfect sound, whatever that might be. I just like to try new gear from different brands, and maybe one day, it will be the end game. For now, I'm extremely happy with my spatial europe dipoles, which plays wonderful music. Love your channel, Steve. Best regards, Michael
i find that most objectivists are looking for the no distortion perfect sound. So far in my audio journey all the great measuring speakers, components sounds dull / flat / lifeless. to me a little distortion makes the music sound great. brings joy into the music.
My 1st comment was tongue in cheek. Late Gen X'er here.The more more I learn about stereo/hifi equipment, the more my ideal house has 3 to 4 systems The preferred system for the Lovin' Spoonful isn't the same system as Nine Inch Nails. It is also fun to hear how a change in the systems or a complete system can change what is brought out in the song. Being a music lover I love many genres and some artists in genres I dont nomrally go to. Europe is dong a better job of bands getting airplay. I have streamed Independant Radio Scotland, a fun source for finding music. I beleive the decline in people exploring music, is due to streaming services. You used to have to buy a record, tape, CD, to hear something on demand. Now you can add a single song to a massive playlist, then put it on shuffle. Up until streaming bands needed ~45 minutes of music to sell their music. Now they are often times looking for that magic single. People of all generations are exploring less. However, the college age kids who do get into bands not just playlists are exploring more than my friends did.
This episode of the "Steve & Herb Show" pointed out that LPs by great artists making an emotional impact when played through a 'capable system', might do the trick ... Replicating a live concert in a 14 × 10 foot room isn't a realistic expectation, but scaling down to 5-1/4" two way speakers augmented with a powered subwoofer matched to the room ~ well, that just might be "Perfect Enough" :)
I feel this figure of speech is reflective of the hobby itself. Many use this term as a preempted shield against the inevitable onslaught of negative, uptight comments that are sure to ensue regarding their equipment. Here are two examples: "My $500 speakers are so great, they may be the best speakers ever created." (Inevitable response): "Yeah right, those speakers are not good. You cant get great measuring speakers at that price. My 15k JBL's blow those out of the water." "I know these $500 speakers are not perfect, but they do the job on my budget. I am grateful I have these." (Inevitable response): "Good for you man, they're alright, not as good as my 15k JBL's, but they're good for starter speakers."
In the mid 70's I visited an ear-gallery that had invested a tidy sum in sound reinforcement ensuring me I would not be able to replicate what I had experienced in that room. It forced me to reexamine not only the way I listened to music, but my perception of the aural spectrum. Accommodating Tom Waits and Elliot Gould favorably is (usually) all I ask for now, fortunately.
Over the years I have tried many components. Not so much that I wanted perfection out of my system, but because I like variety. I still do, using three separate approaches for my main, secondary (The stereo my bride accepts/uses in her living room.), and my office. Out of all three, again the goal of the gear was not accuracy, what I own is not able to totally recreate a live performance but is something we enjoy listening to. I make no apologies for it.
I love so many 'bad' recordings. Musicians do this ridiculous thing were they make recordings and then call it a demo because they made it themselves and not in a professional studio. It's still a recording and something is lost when you go and record it again 'for real this time'.
Even though a concert may usually sound better from a seat in the eighth row than one in the 29th row, a well made recording can sound more detailed from the easy chair in any well set up listening room. Not meaning to suggest that it would be as true to life (live) , just a more compressed and accessible version that can be heard repeatedly. The thing that is lacking in the home environment is the sound "density" and envelopment of the sound field that is present when the music is being played live. As you guys said , what is needed is more "flavor" and "pizzazz" in our home systems. Thanks for also pointing some of the things that should give perspective to blase audiophiles.
Good point. If perfect sound were to be attained, it would mean there's nowhere else to go, no room for improvement, and thus no need to buy even more expensive gear-it would be the death of audiophilia. However, if you seek a _better sound_ instead, there's always the need to purchase more expensive equipment! 👍
It's nice to see two old dudes that have been around the block a few times when they get back home put there feet on the ground. Not that I'm a spring chicken 😁... But the journey is fun
I know it's not perfect but my system sounds pretty good. A couple of weeks ago, I listened to a $500,000 Vanderstein system. The woodwinds sounded more real on this system than mine. However, I feel that speaker size matters, and my system projects a very large sound stage where singers sound life size, rather than like they are singing while sitting on the floor. This suggests that this $500,000 system is also not perfect, as it is not as good as mine in this sound stage aspect. I'm very happy with my system.
The recording is what’s trying to be replicated perfectly I think? But how would we know? Studio recordings are completely varied. Live recordings are very much dependent on the space, where the microphones are, etc. What’s the Absolute Sound and if there is such a thing that can be played back on a system and what would determine its perfection? Thanks Steve and Herb.
Well, they're not perfect, but looking at the Buchardts sitting behind the guys in that small-ish section of Steve's apartment, and thinking how they'd fit in my small space, they would be more than good enough
Talking of consistency is Audio Research still consistent product wise? I am looking for a preamp and I was considering the LS2. Any thoughts? Thank you
For me, it's resolution. Window-shattering bass and zippy highs I don't need. But I do demand high resolution, hearing everything I should be hearing on the recording. Perfection is like utopia, nirvana or the holy grail - it doesn't exist. But, with the right attitude, the journey can be loads of fun.
Hey Steve, you are definitely “A major dude” in a my 66 yr old journey in the esoteric world of those with “different” hearing. Lol. I am a drummer and solo acoustic guitar/singer performer. I had a working project studio on Maui-off the grid-but after 18 months my mixes were coming out high end hot. I knew I was done for as a professional without hearing assistance and I was shocked to know how many studio pros used-what they called-correction. That kind of work becomes freaky intuitive and inexplicably accommodating,if one has the experience, to overcome hearing loss. Yet technology can do better! That kine correction can’t be found for less than 22-24 hundred greenbacks at Costco. The real ultra da kine is closer to 50 hundred smackeroos. It’s an elite audio product. Yet Stevie, let’s be real, a whole wall of the premium of premium gear is worthless if you can’t hear the cymbals and the voices have no life. Is 5k for full range hearing aids worth it if you aren’t a working sound professional. Is audiophile gear worth it if the listener who can’t hear anything close to full range? Logically, why spend more than 5-6 hunny on a rig if one won’t accept their handicap? Personally I’m on the side of high tech hearing assistance, some may disagree
Do audiophiles really want perfect sound? The answer is yes they do! I would argue that perfect sound has been achieved from a shoppers perspective. HiFi gear today is outstanding at every price point from a fidelity perspective. I can reminisce the trippy times of Iron Butterfly on my DragonFly dac and be blown away by the feels and vibes of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, well that hippy shit was way before my time but I didn't miss out on the psychedelic 90's and early 2000's like Song for the Dead from Songs for the Deaf album I reminisce on. Anyway there's something for every audiophile at every price point to enjoy, sounds perfect to me.
There's a perfect synergy between Steve and Herb that never gets old or stale. Love this stuff.
For me growing up in the 60s and 70s..i heard all this great music on a transistor radio or maybe my parents console stereo. Or when i was 13 i got a stereo record player. We didnt hear this stuff in hi fi. The music for me is life, feeling, and memory . if it brings a smile to my face thru my new higher end rig Im happy. I dont need perfect. It cant create new memories, but it sure can take me back with a new clarity and enjoyment.
My parents had a radiogram, it was only years later i found out it had tubes in it. So i have always loved the tube sound
Is it The Herb and Steve HiFi Show or The Steve and Herb HiFi Show just talking and having lots of fun? Guys, you nailed it as its simply all about the music - distortion, imperfection, perfection and human perception! You guys remind me of Car Talk: Click and Clack on NPR radio - Tom and Ray Magliozzi! Those New England guys!
That's high praise, thank you so much!
Love the Steve and Herb Show, your shared enjoyment is contagious! Hope it becomes a monthly gig 🤞
For me, it's about clarity. I want to be able to clearly hear every single note played by any instrument I choose to concentrate on. I also want it to be transparent. I want to hear the difference between bad recordings and awesome ones.
Yup, so get ur ears cleaned 😁
So you want perfect sound.
You want to time travel to every live recording session.
@@faludabutt8253 Peroxide, baby!
@@kiavaxxaskew Yes.
That was the best thing about the sixties, the blending of folk, rock and country.
I feel like I’m at church and the holy ones are speaking audio wisdom to me! 🙏🏽
Well ... since I tried to help the poor by writing on here that SANYO JA-220 would give high end quality (it looks like junk I know), well the prices have rocketed and you'll never get one of these but ... there are broken ones of a similar appearance at low price. SANYO JA-220 has Toshiba Output transistors smaller but similar to the 1990s harman/kardon but its early 1980s. As a stock amplifier, you'd be amazed at the sound effects floating in the air. You'd have to use speakers like Tamon, I use the Realistic Optimus X-100 but they're refurbished.
as a child of the 70s and huge audio fan of the day back then. It's so much fun to hear you two chat about the 60s and the whole scene. Great job thank so much for sharing all of this.
Thanks for bringing back memories of a 12 year old making mix tapes with a 3 inch portable reel-to-reel tape recorder off AM radio. "Summer in the City" was on that tape 🥰.
Oh man I think this is my favourite Steve and Herb show! I remember getting the Blue Cheer record for Christmas when I was in grade 7, and I still have it!!! Yeah great music lives on forever AND no system is perfect “unless” is sucks you into the music enough to get lost for hours. Anyhow that was a great show guys.
Thanks David!
The beauty “perfect audio system” is in the ear of the listener.
And, no two ears are alike.
You two guys are fabulous, brilliant in your own right & a great double act👍
I think that presenting each time an album that you like and Herb likes (or a new discovery) to describe its music, history and sound from your subjective audiophile perspective could be the core of your mix up . From this foundation a lots of interesting things can unfold . And imho this can be a very solid format for years. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
I like that idea. It is after all, all about the music!
Hi, It is a blast having you both talk about music. And it is so great hearing both of your opinions come together. Keep these videos coming!!!
Keep the Herb and Steve Show going. Now I have a couple more vintage albums to track down.
Yes this is one belongs on Steve's greatest hits list.
So glad to see Herb! This was a great conversation. I cherish my mono records. Thank you Steve!
Y’all are both “Nuggets “! Good music, good conversation.
I like these two guys and sharing time with them. Thanks for letting me participate in your philosophy. :)
Thanks to you Steve and Herb. Interesting discussion. More of this. Greetings to you
A painting of a scene can provoke more emotions than the actual thing ever can. Steve you mentioned the live concert that had bad audio. I would argue that’s what made it live and you loved it for that 😅
True love is an electrostat owner giving up the perfect listening position to their partner. :)
..and I'd love a set of Martin Logans
I really like Herb, you, and this format. Thanks!
Haha, Blue Cheer through a pair of Cerwin Vegas. 60s nirvana. Had som fun with those bands. Electric Flag, Butterfield Blues Band, Jams Gang. Yes, The Airplane, Young Bloods, On and on. .
I LOVE this new segment that you both are doing. I found myself glued to the content of what you were discussing and how you presented it. Keep doing it. Its great! Very, very interesting. Both of you have years of insight that I have been clueless of. Listening to you two has made me very aware of that and I am appreciative of the fact that you're willing to share your experience and personal knowledge.
I just love it, when you two come together,, you compliment each other.
Thrilled that you plan on doing this type of segment more often. I've sent you and email to help push it along. 🥂
Hey Guys, happy to listen to You talking. I’m classical musician. I had Strads in my hands and I still prefer to listen Heifetz Strad on recording than play one myself. There is sth special in way they did recordings in vinyl times, that now… I hear it live in concert hall and I cannot wait I put my earphones, even Monoprice M350 and listen to it. It fits my taste even more
Love you legends yarning. Informal, entertaining and addictive. Really looking forward to more.
You guys together...wow I dig it, rhythm dynamics just perfect 🎉
Had the chance to hear John Sabastian, who was pretty much the Loving Spoonfuls, in a small intimated venue just a few years ago. Solo. Close enough to touch. He talked about how each song came about. Struggles he was having as each song was written. What an incredible talent and person. Thanks for giving it some exposure!
And now I have to find a copy of Nuggets!
🧑 ♠ 👨
Don't have Nuggets but Tidal has a compilation of garage bands called "Wild Things". Includes the Nashville Teens.
@@stevelyman2944 Gotta be vinyl! I do have a number of variety ones like Dick Clarke and Greatest Hits of the ... and likely have many of those songs. Just seemed like a great complication to sit and listen to.
i love you guys together .. great listen ,, thank you for everything
Forget perfect, i want PLEASING SOUND.
Pleasurable
You nailed it!
somehow I get the impression that Herb is on good behavior here. The feeling is that his passion is being restrained somewhat and if he ever decides to cut loose he will resemble Louis Black
Trying new gear and accessories is one of my favorite aspects of the hobby. They all have their pros and cons and they all add their bit of character to a system. I love to hear all those traits mixed together for different takes on music that I love. I agree that perfection would be boring. Personally, I think that my version of perfection lies in the love that you develop for a system with just the right combination of imperfections.
You two are a great show hands down!
Felt almost silly when all of a sudden I realized I was grinning ear-to-ear, especially from about 10:35. And "...EQd for the [CAR] radio" too Herb! I was right THERE with you guys! Great thoughts and observations...loved it.
Loved this episode! Blue Cheer changed my life when I heard Summer Time Blues & I love John Sebastion as well.
The Dynamic duo of Audiophilia 🤩
SO much appreciated !!!
What about a video of why people like certain things in a system?
Big sound stages, depth , resolution etc ?
And what components excelled at specific qualities?
I love depth and resolution….. 🤩
Everything about being an audiophile brings me bliss, even just reading about music and equipment as well all the CZcams reviews make me happy. I love all my gear and I have three systems. Also some music sounds its best on different set ups I have noticed, but I enjoy it very much regardless. They all "equipment" sound different and they all mix it up really well when I switch speakers out or switch the amps & receivers around.
I bought the Dayton "HTA200 Tubes Hybrid and really Love it" and have solid state as well many different interconnects and three different kinds of speaker cables. I'm into all of it and regularly switch it all around depending which room Im going to listen and which gear I want to hear. It can only get better as newer gear burns in. I will be ordering the Tekton Troubadours in the future when the funds are there and am excited about that for sure.
If I haven't played some gear or set of speakers for a while I have noticed that it all needs about an hour or so to feel warmed up and smoothed out and then it all just becomes so gorgeous and familiar.
Thank you Steve for just the wonderful banter and great conversations I appreciate the sugggestion on the Dayton tube Hybrids. The 200 watt version has a decent remote and more power.
Fascinating hobby and I really just love love love this life with it all.
I have maybe more then 2000 albums just in LP's. Not so much cd's maybe 200 or so, and maybe 300 cassette tapes from back in the day.
I still listen to FM most often and never stream.
Love to hear Steve and Herb....
Nice
What makes the hifi audio hobby so much fun is different components can be moved in and out and change the "perfection".
The only way to listen to 1950s and 1960s 45s is on a 1957 Motorola Masterpiece mono console. Now thats perfection!!
I’ve always loved Stadtler and Waldorf! More, please, Steve.
Great episode Steve! And love Herb!
As I always, both of you are great, simple , friendly , a lot of expérience and knowledge.
Keep these videos coming gents, big thumbs up!
Love this video guys! I was a teenager when the Nuggets 45s were fresh off the presses so I know exactly what you mean...I have almost all the Lovin Spoonful 45s also
Herb is the man, Steve is also the man…glad to see you both together again!
Very enjoyable conversation! 🙌🏻
I don't have that Nuggets album, but I've got most all of those tunes in my collection--they were all Top 40 when I was in school. Thanks for confirming there is no perfection and further more, we don't need such perfection. All the best.
As if we didn't already know 😂
A lovely topic, I was just listening to my ever so precise system, and was really missing the blooming bass reverb of my previous system. I feel one of the reasons I listen to music is to be enveloped and bathed in sound, I don’t really care so much what the artist intended, I’m listening for me. But also I do seek the master mix experience from time to time, and I feel the best way to do that is to match the gear to the studio, which has gone through transformations over the decades. Our current high precision equipment is unprecedented and as such doesn’t deliver what was heard in the studio during the mix. But many mixes are sloppy and dirty and sometimes high precision helps bring a bit more clarity, helping voices and instruments shimmer and shine above the noise, but I’m also here for the noise, bring it on! Ha ha ha
AM powerhouse radio stations from the 60's demanded the mono mixes be tweeked up for radio airplay. I remember chatting with Rosalie Trombley once from CKLW who told me to hunt down the radio mono promos from the Mama's and the Papa's. All of those 45 cuts were demanded by her if they wanted their single aired on "The Big 8".
Their mono records were superior in sound over the awful stereo mixes.
Life is not perfect and its better that way. Imperfection creates a uniqueness to something. Wabi-Sabi is the Japanese art of finding beauty in imperfections like, for example, Elizabeth Taylor's mole on her cheek.
The most gorgeous lady ever!
Steve great video! It would be really cool if you and Herb talked about your favorite albums and why you love them that was really enjoyable!
Thank you so much!
👍It’s all about the feeling, Herb !
Herb is spot on with his first statement in that it's a sort of qualifier.
Great show, love ya both! I have pro audio and home audio. Love em both for different reasons and mix them up. Currently listening to a crown xli 3500 amp fed by an RME ADI-2 PRO FS BE as dac and preamp. That feeds my ZU Omen Def Supreme speakers and dual RSL 12S subwoofers. Absolutely love it! Norridge over others thoughts. I just enjoy it!
Steve you do a great job as an audiophile
I really like your conversations, Steve and Herb. There is something developing in the conversation that is exciting and lively, there is a "gestalt" developing about the subject. Over the years, you have both become audiophile philosophers and, to some extent, psychologists. Two examples of ideas from your conversation to illustrate. Herb, imagine if someone wanted to perfect an impressionist painting by Paul Gaugin through "higher resolution" haha. Steve, If there really is "real" sound in the living room in the future, then both the discovery and neurotic motivations to strive for "perfect" sound fall away. And the big loss would be if the personal ideals of what everyone considers "perfect" would be lost.
Heinz, I like your perspective on this. Me and Herb, we've been having these conversations for decades, and it's so great to document them for other people to see.
Good. Love ole Herb.
To me the point of "perfect" is being able to enjoy all of these different recordings without saying to myself "dammit I wish I had that other thing, then it would really sing". Building a system, (including the acquisition of a suitable room) that can bring out the musical value in every (well mastered vinyl, garage sale gimy, broadcast radio, livestreamed sports, old bootleg MP3s, mid quality CD from local bar show) recording one might be interested in, is non trivial. There are definitely system changes, or visits to other people's systems where certain things I knew I liked sounded forgettable. Then it gets even more complicated when you're trying to balance all the things a dedicated music system needs in order to draw things out of recordings with also fitting in exploring music videos and film (big glass panel ≠ easy set up for imaging, also distracting when you' want to be listening to just audio) and then ergonomics of being able to share everything the system has to offer with non-nerds. If my girlfriend is too shy about my turntable to put a record on by herself then it doesn't matter how good it sounds; if there are too many power switches or screen menus, if the speakers take up too much floor space to entertain people in the same room... For me, perfect sound would mean some more scale in orchestral stuff with at least the same level of deftness in textural, timbral discretion, while not giving up the crunch on rock that's supposed to sound crunchy (my last speaker-TT pairing in this system smoothed even lofi punk), while giving particular attention to speaking voices, for movies, tv, youtube, radio. I feel finally like I've got the bases basically covered finally.
Not being a reviewer, and not having the budget/time/space to be swapping gear, the stuff I hold on to has to cover all the bases, which is far from easy.
A bit of Berg sprinkled with some Herb, doesn't get much tastier than that, great vid thanks 👍
Audio equipment can be so deceptive and linked to experience and personal tastes it is incredible.
Compact disc were touted as perfect back in the day, now everyone is going back to records or “vinyls” if wear skinny jeans. I find that some imperfections sound good
Not everyone. Not even close to everyone.
DACs and amplifiers have almost immeasurable distortion and have done for a very long time. So perfect electronics are indeed a thing with regards to reproducing the recorded signal in it’s purest form. Speakers and listening areas are where that reproduction falls down.
Perfect doesn't exist. The moment we all can buy 'perfect sound' alarm bells should ring for us...
Remember when CDs were marketed as 'Perfect sound'...and it took us all 30 years to work our way back to 'imperfect' vinyl?
Great video guys...
Benchmark ahb2 amplifier is a great example of perfection regarding being just an amplifier and perfect. Although it doesn't give any emotion, i would say that we're searching for our own subjective perfect sound, whatever that might be. I just like to try new gear from different brands, and maybe one day, it will be the end game. For now, I'm extremely happy with my spatial europe dipoles, which plays wonderful music.
Love your channel, Steve.
Best regards, Michael
both you guys nailed it
Great show.
No system will ever sound perfect because we all hear differently so what sounds perfect to one one person may not sound the same for someone else.
i find that most objectivists are looking for the no distortion perfect sound. So far in my audio journey all the great measuring speakers, components sounds dull / flat / lifeless. to me a little distortion makes the music sound great. brings joy into the music.
Brilliant
My 1st comment was tongue in cheek. Late Gen X'er here.The more more I learn about stereo/hifi equipment, the more my ideal house has 3 to 4 systems The preferred system for the Lovin' Spoonful isn't the same system as Nine Inch Nails. It is also fun to hear how a change in the systems or a complete system can change what is brought out in the song. Being a music lover I love many genres and some artists in genres I dont nomrally go to. Europe is dong a better job of bands getting airplay. I have streamed Independant Radio Scotland, a fun source for finding music.
I beleive the decline in people exploring music, is due to streaming services. You used to have to buy a record, tape, CD, to hear something on demand. Now you can add a single song to a massive playlist, then put it on shuffle. Up until streaming bands needed ~45 minutes of music to sell their music. Now they are often times looking for that magic single. People of all generations are exploring less. However, the college age kids who do get into bands not just playlists are exploring more than my friends did.
This episode of the "Steve & Herb Show" pointed out that LPs by great artists making an emotional impact when played through a 'capable system', might do the trick ... Replicating a live concert in a 14 × 10 foot room isn't a realistic expectation, but scaling down to 5-1/4" two way speakers augmented with a powered subwoofer matched to the room ~ well, that just might be "Perfect Enough" :)
I feel this figure of speech is reflective of the hobby itself. Many use this term as a preempted shield against the inevitable onslaught of negative, uptight comments that are sure to ensue regarding their equipment. Here are two examples:
"My $500 speakers are so great, they may be the best speakers ever created."
(Inevitable response): "Yeah right, those speakers are not good. You cant get great measuring speakers at that price. My 15k JBL's blow those out of the water."
"I know these $500 speakers are not perfect, but they do the job on my budget. I am grateful I have these."
(Inevitable response): "Good for you man, they're alright, not as good as my 15k JBL's, but they're good for starter speakers."
In the mid 70's I visited an ear-gallery that had invested a tidy sum in sound reinforcement ensuring me I would not be able to replicate what I had experienced in that room. It forced me to reexamine not only the way I listened to music, but my perception of the aural spectrum. Accommodating Tom Waits and Elliot Gould favorably is (usually)
all I ask for now, fortunately.
Great show, love when you two get together, great chemistry and friendship 👌🏻
Audiophiles just want to keep Tweaking, tuning, touching those knobs. Great subject, thank you.
Over the years I have tried many components. Not so much that I wanted perfection out of my system, but because I like variety. I still do, using three separate approaches for my main, secondary (The stereo my bride accepts/uses in her living room.), and my office. Out of all three, again the goal of the gear was not accuracy, what I own is not able to totally recreate a live performance but is something we enjoy listening to. I make no apologies for it.
I learned more in this one conversation about audio than in all the equipment reviews!
I love so many 'bad' recordings. Musicians do this ridiculous thing were they make recordings and then call it a demo because they made it themselves and not in a professional studio. It's still a recording and something is lost when you go and record it again 'for real this time'.
Always amazing!!! Love you guys!!!
I think it's emotive, not until they make an AI tube AMP that can roll it's own tubes like a 60's jukebox and sense your mood - will we come close.
HERB!!!❤
That was a good video , glad you've got herb there . Thanks
Keep up the Duos
Even though a concert may usually sound better from a seat in the eighth row than one in the 29th row, a well made recording can sound more detailed from the easy chair in any well set up listening room. Not meaning to suggest that it would be as true to life (live) , just a more compressed and accessible version that can be heard repeatedly. The thing that is lacking in the home environment is the sound "density" and envelopment of the sound field that is present when the music is being played live. As you guys said , what is needed is more "flavor" and "pizzazz" in our home systems. Thanks for also pointing some of the things that should give perspective to blase audiophiles.
My system isn't perfect, but, it's the world's best! 😊
Good point. If perfect sound were to be attained, it would mean there's nowhere else to go, no room for improvement, and thus no need to buy even more expensive gear-it would be the death of audiophilia. However, if you seek a _better sound_ instead, there's always the need to purchase more expensive equipment! 👍
It's nice to see two old dudes that have been around the block a few times when they get back home put there feet on the ground. Not that I'm a spring chicken 😁... But the journey is fun
I know it's not perfect but my system sounds pretty good. A couple of weeks ago, I listened to a $500,000 Vanderstein system. The woodwinds sounded more real on this system than mine. However, I feel that speaker size matters, and my system projects a very large sound stage where singers sound life size, rather than like they are singing while sitting on the floor. This suggests that this $500,000 system is also not perfect, as it is not as good as mine in this sound stage aspect. I'm very happy with my system.
Steve, is there any chance we, sorry, you could do an episode on the best system for the Kitchen. Do it Steve, do IT
These two are so funny together
The recording is what’s trying to be replicated perfectly I think? But how would we know? Studio recordings are completely varied. Live recordings are very much dependent on the space, where the microphones are, etc. What’s the Absolute Sound and if there is such a thing that can be played back on a system and what would determine its perfection? Thanks Steve and Herb.
Well, they're not perfect, but looking at the Buchardts sitting behind the guys in that small-ish section of Steve's apartment, and thinking how they'd fit in my small space, they would be more than good enough
Talking of consistency is Audio Research still consistent product wise? I am looking for a preamp and I was considering the LS2. Any thoughts? Thank you
Joined the channel at least 4-6 years ago.
For me, it's resolution. Window-shattering bass and zippy highs I don't need. But I do demand high resolution, hearing everything I should be hearing on the recording. Perfection is like utopia, nirvana or the holy grail - it doesn't exist. But, with the right attitude, the journey can be loads of fun.
This stuff is why you are the best reviewer on the internet, Steve.
Thanks!!!
Hey Steve, you are definitely “A major dude” in a my 66 yr old journey in the esoteric world of those with “different” hearing. Lol. I am a drummer and solo acoustic guitar/singer performer. I had a working project studio on Maui-off the grid-but after 18 months my mixes were coming out high end hot. I knew I was done for as a professional without hearing assistance and I was shocked to know how many studio pros used-what they called-correction. That kind of work becomes freaky intuitive and inexplicably accommodating,if one has the experience, to overcome hearing loss. Yet technology can do better!
That kine correction can’t be found for less than 22-24 hundred greenbacks at Costco. The real ultra da kine is closer to 50 hundred smackeroos. It’s an elite audio product. Yet Stevie, let’s be real, a whole wall of the premium of premium gear is worthless if you can’t hear the cymbals and the voices have no life.
Is 5k for full range hearing aids worth it if you aren’t a working sound professional. Is audiophile gear worth it if the listener who can’t hear anything close to full range? Logically, why spend more than 5-6 hunny on a rig if one won’t accept their handicap? Personally I’m on the side of high tech hearing assistance, some may disagree