You don't NEED an amplifier
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Save yo cash
That POWER article: crinacle.com/2019/09/30/on-th...
Why SINAD bad: www.headphones.com/community/...
Headphonesty's power calculator: www.headphonesty.com/headphon...
PATREON: / crinacle
TWITTER: / crinacle
DISCORD: crinacle.com/discord
SUBREDDIT: / inearfidelity
MERCH: merch.crinacle.com
00:00 Intro
00:38 What is an amp?
02:12 Myth #1: Fixing headphones
04:40 Myth #2: POWER
08:20 Myth #3: Quality of power
11:20 Myth #4: It's just... better
13:01 TL;DW
CAMERA: Sony a7 III + FE 35mm f/1.8
MICROPHONE: Motu M2 interface + Neumann TLM 102
SPEAKERS: Neumann KH120 + KH750
MONITOR: LG C1 48" OLED - Věda a technologie
Remember lads, the operative word here is *_NEED_*
Do you maybe know what is the sensitivity of Susvara, number AND unit? I see a lot of confusion around it. Hifiman product page has just 83dB without unit, some reviews stated 103dB/V, some headphone power table had 86dB/V and 74dB/mW...
I bought an oldschool FiiO DAC player to have it be my personal music player, so I won't fill my phone with a thousand lossless files. It was more for convenience to order my files rather than the NEED of a dedicated amp for my headphones. It also came with a balance port. I love my FiiO.
epic
Nice video. It doesn't cost many cents on the BOM of electronics to make an excellent headphone/earbud output. This is another area of audio snake oil helping some companies to sell products that serve no actual purpose.
complete agree on NEED. but, i bought a budget, convenience amp for my hifiman he5xx (fiio btr5) and it DID help my headphones in a VERY noticable way: but not because of the amp itself. when i first got my he5xx, i was in love with the soundstage and the "size" of the sound in comparison with my moondrop aria, but the tuning was just kinda off. I decided to try eq, because its free, but in order to eq them to the oratory1990 target, i was looking at a -11db preamp gain. i was already near-maxing out my laptop before eq, so in order to get the most out of it i decided to try the btr5, and if i still didn't
like it i would return everything. suprise suprise, the btr5 plus a balanced cable was plenty loud enough with the eq, and now i use them as my daily driver while at home.
could i have returned them for a pair of hd6xx? yes, but ive listened to the 6xx and i don't like the imaging/staging, especially with as much as i use my headphones for games, and i can't fix that with eq. point in all of this being that if you really like a headphone but the tuning is just a bit off, then eq and an amp might do wonders, but a better headphone will ALSO do wonders, so its worth looking into a little more than just "you totally need an amplifier" or you "totally don't need an amplifier"
I bought an O2 amp years ago. After a lot of testing, I determined that I really like the volume wheel on it more than the slider in Windows.
Absolutely, the clicky volume knob of my topping really elevates my audiophile experience.
You should try the Element III. Best knob ever
@@metal571 That's a nice knob
@@SubjectE57 I like knobs
Same here.
Don't have things that are "hard to drive" to get to comfortable listening volume, but I like the convenience of just reaching for the dial and lower the volume when needed.
Instead of going to the slider in windows or in games.
Although I do like the extra bit of oomph on tap when I want to go loud for a minute or two for that one song that I love.
And for IEM's I just dial it down a bit.
Bottom line is that most people don't NEED an amp, but simply WANT an amp for the convenience and the extra bit of juice should they want it.
"Save your money" is the greatest piece of advice you could give to any audiophile
An audiophile by definition is someone who wastes money and thinks they can hear the difference. They are no different from Reiki practitioners. It's not about reality, but about how special they are in their abilities.
Awe man… so I should take back my Apple Airpod Max 🎧 ??
@@DamnDealDone That's BS. Sure, like any in any industry some people are selling snake oil and there _are_ diminishing returns in gear after a certain price point -- but a good pair of headphones or speakers can make a world of difference.
@@Skrenja where do I say good speakers and headphones don't make a difference? How does that equate to being an audiophile? How does your comment in any single way address my point? It doesn't. Damn, what a dumb comment.
AUDIO HOMOPHILE
I used to think I could tell a difference with my 6xx plugged into a Q3 with a balanced cable. I then plugged them directly into a Switch Lite out of sheer curiosity and it sounded exactly the same. The placebo effect is real and nobody is above it.
That's indeed super weird because the Nintendo Switch is the only example where I would say that it actually sounds worse when using the HD6XX. On my PC, surface pro and on my phone it's fine, except for the fact that the volume can't get too high on some of these but the switch really gave me the impression that the sound was garbage :D it was the regular switch though, not the lite. For real, my KZ ZS10 pro sound better on it!
Sorry but the switch sound is pretty awful. I need to go through Bluetooth with it otherwise it just spoils any enjoyment out of my session x)
I can’t speak regarding the Lite or the OLED, but my OG Switch has quite possibly the worst sounding headphone jack I’ve ever heard haha. Sounds like they might have fixed it for the Lite (or maybe I just got a dud)!
@@PinePizzathey probably have different components in the different models. Maybe the og switch has a crummy dac. Or maybe it's a qc issue - wouldn't be surprised if the cheap dacs in those things have some variability, maybe the one you used just sucks
I just liked my dac because it has a knob on it
Actually really glad I found this in my research phase. In the process of buying new studio mixing headphones learning a ton about audio equipment in the process. Your humor and insight is awesome! Thanks man
I remember years ago, a guy told me that you need Monster cables to be able to produce sound frequencies up to 96kHz. I simply told him that I'm playing music for humans, not fucking dolphins
Never happened.
@@kennymccormick8295
1. "Nothing ever happens".
2. If you're a beginner in the Music Industry, people will feed you all kinds of misinformation. Which is why videos like this one is uploaded.
Why would someone say 96kHz rather than 100? It's so oddly specific.
for my ears, i don’t want higher frequency. bits is what matter to me.
@@SubjectE57 there's no such thing as 100kHz when dealing with audio file exporting. It's 44.1kHz, 48kHz and even 96kHz. Supposedly when working with audio to video stuff, it's either 48 or 96. Even when mastering shit for CD, people claim that 96 is just better. Sonically, I can't hear the difference. Maybe my ears are bad, I dunno. But people claim that higher sample rate equals win. Maybe I'm too much of a young boy but I think I'll stick to my 44.1kHz.
The best upgrade you get from a dedicated amplifier is the physical volume knob
That's so true, and for portable use my shanling UP4 spoilt me. I can't go back to volume rockers.
…followed by a bass-boost switch (in my case).
You can get that from a DAC. My presonus one even has separate knobs for headphones and monitors!
Can think of a few more things, a decent DAC, enough current to play at loud levels.
You open up most of them further with silver cables. The sound stage will improve too.
I wish I could subscribe you a 1000 times 😆 MAN have I fallen for buying an amp to make the headphone quality better 🤣🤣🤣 Thank you so much for sharing what I learned the hard way.
wait what piximperfect was here?
Unmesh won't notice this.
You need 1000times for your helpfull photoshops trips
Laughed and learned a lot. Your abrupt music stopping when making a point caused me to snicker and laughter amid teaching helps us to REMEMBER.
Many thanks! Big thumbs up and subscribed👏
One thing I love about the audio hobby is fanboy-ism isn't very common, like it is in the tech or firearms hobby. However, the snake oil-ism is out of control in the audio hobby. It wouldn't be too hard to convince an audiophile that casting a magic spell on your headphones and rubbing cat hair and onions on them, will make them sound better. I love that we have people like Uncle Crinacle to teach us what's real and what isn't, as the placebo effect can honestly make that difficult sometimes!
Yeah "burning" headphones thesis even proves that further.
OK that's a slight bit of a lie but you are also not completely wrong
So the $350 a month to my enchantress isn’t making my music sound better?
Dude you picked some expensive ass hobbies 😂😂🙏
Please tell me more about the cat hair and onions method. I need my Koss Porta pros to sound like Sundaras.
Aww man I fell for all of these myths back when I was shopping around.
Love seeing my hobbies overlap like this
Lol after I bought my first hyped portable amp, I knew the hobby was full of snake oil. Don't get me wrong. There's a need for amps with certain high end headphones (like HD800 and planars) but audiophiles are super susceptible to snake oil. It's hilarious that most of Head-fi still believes spending $1k+ on cables make substantial differences. They even ban discussion of cables to avoid interfering with the business of their cable business sponsors.
Cool to see the other channel I follow a lot be here
@@fractera both probably use computers a decent amount
@@fractera Okay but how does that explain the fountain pen component of mechanicalheadpens? Haha. Been into audio and pens for ages but just recently (thanks to lockdowns) got into nice keyboards and ended up with a Ducky One 2 SF. It's a love hate relationship (QC on these is... lacking) but it's still much more comfortable than a membrane board. Also Switch and Click was one of my primary resources for researching and makes me wanna build a full custom lmao
You make my day...LOL... as an former audio-addict this is so refreshing. It resonates and saves so much money......
Thank you for your time and effort.
Keep on keeping on.. I used to buy expensive stuff, now i have a simple stereo set with reasonable aiwa speakers, enough to get me dancing in the room . That,s what matters to me.
I think what people may like from an amp vs not having it is analog control. Not saying analog control is better, but turning a dial is satisfying. That bit of satisfaction they get vs moving a slider in EQ colors their experience positively.
As a proud value-based consumer, this speaks to my soul. Diminishing returns hit pretty early in this hobby, and it's important to acknowledge that.
And the longer you’re a fan, the more your hearing degrades
@@Snoop_Dugg unless you like closed backs and very low volumes so as to still be aware of the outside
What do you think about DACs?
@@aravindpallippara1577 my TV goes above 15? What has my life been up to this points?
@@Snoop_Dugg
What if you don't listen at very loud volume?
You’re one of those guys whose passion gets others interested about the hobby. I went from looking from a decent pair of headphones to learning so much about audio. Keep pumping out content, it’s contagious.
And I'm homeless
help
Really enjoying learning from you. Thanks for all the great info you put out for us.
Damn it your totally right. I just tested my iem’s with and without amp and you don’t need it. But I still like it better. Why do you gotta be so real. Thanks for the great content!
I fell in this myth when bought my second chifi IEM: BGVP DS1 Pro. People told me repeatedlly that my phone DAC and AMP was garbage and this was the reason the IEM didn't sounded well. So I bought a Topping DAC/AMP combo and the IEM was the same shit.
Yup, there's lots of "amp make your iem" sound better people out there.
I have an amp only to power...well, power hungry planar headphones, that's it.
Out of curiousity, what did you not like about the BGVP DS1 Pro?
Shit in - shit out. A saying we had in the music studio I worked at. If it's recorded badly no amount of mixing and mastering will make it good. If your headphones suck an amp is only going to amplify the suckage.
@@devote exactly. Don't get me wrong, a proper amp can lower noise floor on IEMs, but not necessary to drive them.
Now, for higher-end, insensitive cans and loudspeakers, the benefits of a better amp become more apparent.
🤭
Because Topping is shit.
Crin, you're honestly the guy I go to for rankings, reviews and opinions. I trust your judgement and I love your content. You're authentic and entertaining. I have made several purchases because of you and I was never let down. Thank you, really. You make things easy to understand and I can't start to imagine how much work goes into testing, ranking, explaining, making the videos etc. You will get back to 100k in no time and surely surpass it. This channel is gold. Love you brother, you're the best!
Absolute shill
I bought a pair of those "secret stash" AKG buds he talked about in a recent video.
Genuinely the best headphones I've ever heard. (But to be fair, I am an audio scrub, so don't think I'm comparing them to the cream of the audiophile crop)
Eww stop, crin is not a god
Crin is pretty credible for his testing but not everything he said is right. Never completely trust someone's rank unless you have tested it yourself
@@3ngan498 he's not a god, but he's a good advisor if I can say so
I mostly agree with this. The only thing I would draw attention to is damping factor when using lower impedance headphones. You want the output impedance of your source to be "an order of magnitude" (at least 8-10 times) lower than the impedance of your headphones so that the source can effectively control the speakers. Having too high output impedance in relation to your headphones impedance can do wonky things to the bass response. Luckily, the Apple dongle's output impedance is quite low so you don't need an expensive amplifier to get low output impedance. However, it can be a concern when driving headphones straight off of a laptop, phone, or motherboard, for example, because the output impedance of these devices is rarely a concern or even stated anywhere by the manufacturer so you don't typically know what it is. Even most non-Apple dongles have fairly high output impedance (there are exceptions, I know Samsung makes a decent dongle with fairly low output impedance) which can be frustrating with Apple's dongle not playing well with Android. The only way to figure it out would be to either measure it yourself or find someone else who has (which is unlikely). As for devices with headphone jacks, it really is a crapshoot. Some of them have very low output impedance and some of them have insanely high output impedance. The best thing to do would be to get a decent cheap dongle with low output impedance and compare it to the headphone jack in question. Pay particular attention to the bass as that's where the effect of impedance is greatest. If they sound similar than the headphone jack's output impedance is probably fine. If not then it's probably a bit too high for the headphones in question. This is also obviously less of a concern the higher impedance headphones you're using.
My eventual introduction to audiophile gear ended up being the Apple 3.5mm adapter and Samson SR850, loving the experience so far.
I've just bought superlux hd668b aswell , it is fun new experience .
identical to my experience. i love my sr850s so much
@@mahmoud1737 i have some of those superlux headphones. Great for $30 i paid. But sometimes the treble is too high
@@MiguelY22 i turn down the volume when this happens but overall it's amazing i keep listening to it and enjoy it
its garbage@@mahmoud1737
I agree. As an HE-1 owner, I don't use the amp that comes with it. Sounds good on its own plugged to a phone.
i know this is an obvious joke but I won't be able to sleep tonight unless I say it: HE-1 is an electrostatic headphone and as such, you can't plug it in to your phone even if you tried. You *have to* (like it won't work otherwise) get an energizer.
I thought the tubes looked kinda wierd so i took them off
@@sug8056 I took out the mechanism of the tube elevating. Gets kinda boring after a while
@@triangle9254 Works well as a space heater too
@ better yet, he1 is hard wired into the amp. You can't use it with a different amp
i was browsing amps all day and i really needed to hear you tell me to chill
I have a rHead headphone amplifier. It doesn’t have an especially low noise floor (or high SINAD), but because it was designed by a proper audio engineer, he designed it to have a class A resistor-ladder volume pot for extremely good channel matching no matter the volume. This actually improves audible sound quality.
Agreed. The stereo image stability and quality is what I think amps are useful for. I don’t think expensive ones really make sense, but the difference between plugging in a pair of AT-M50x into my Steinberg audio interface and plugging them into my Magni, the sound is way less claustrophobic.
The U.S. dongle puts out 1 Volt - but the European dongle only puts out ½ a Volt.
What? Why?
@@vsevolodalipov4375 i think they limited it so people wouldnt blast there headphones leading to hearing damage lol
You can bypass this limitation by UAPP.
@@CCebeci is there an ios app that will do it?
@@CCebeci If you use the 1V US dongle in a location where there is a software limit for volume, then you can bypass it. But, the 0.5 V EU dongle has different hardware and will max out at 0.5 V no matter what you do.
I fell down the same rabbit hole, thinking i needed to spend more and more for "clean power" and "clarity". The placebo was in full effect, and now I've downgraded back to my original setup and fully happy with all my headphones. And that little dongle really is magical.
Also yes DON'T fall for that shit, an amp wont fix a shit iem/headphone. if you dont like it you just dont like it
Of course if you have high impedance headphones the sound will be distorted at medium volumes, or it won't get that loud
Yep totally and there are dozens of sub-$50 IEMs that thrash more "premium" models all the way up to $150. Only from $200-$400 is where the perfected diminishing improvements in technicalities-tuning-comfort-build-etc. may well be worth splurging for your "dream setup". And with the exception of a few in-ear models I wholeheartedly recommend getting some high-end over ears once you're willing to start paying that much.
Glad I found your channel. I'm not a super audiophile, but I seem to care about nice audio more than your average person. Enjoying the content and your presentation.
I like how honest crinacle is with headphones and amps!
I never got any problem in "getting enough volume" from connecting my 300 ohm and
I found the noise floor of the headphone jack on my PC was waaay too high, and when I searched online for advice people always said you need at least a 100$+ "entry-level" AMP/DAC to have a good source. But I've read some articles pointing out that the Apple dongle measures very well so I decided to give it a try. For me, it works perfectly fine (well, I'll admit that all I care is noise floor)
Same, through the headphone jack off my laptop I can literally tell you the CPU load, but the type C apple dongle is pretty damn quiet and it has more than adequate sound quality.
Noise floor is the only real difference anyway. That is why it is often good to use an external dac/amp of some sort because at least it is guaranteed to be isolated pretty well.
@@TheAprilChicken Noise indeed matters more than distortion!
@@TheAprilChicken some cheap stuff have awfull noise floors tho, like FX Audio X6 MKII have great DAC but if you use it as DAC only to a separate AMP, it's $60 tho and comes with bluetooth reciever with even aptx support for android folks, I personaly use FiiO M3 Pro DAP in USB DAC mode as DAC and a Topping NX1s AMP for which I traded my old FiiO M3K DAP with a friend
For me it would be worth paying the $100+ just to have a nice volume knob on an AMP/DAC, that's why I like the zen dac, great knob-feel.
But Crin, you didn't address the fact that knobs improve the sound.
The Lord Super*Review has spoken
knobs and dials and CRT oscilloscopes all dramatically improve sound quality. You can hear bandits saying it was just the wind from the other end of hte map in skyrim if you have a few of those thigns kicking around
Thanks for your honest review and opinion... If DAC /AMP is to increase the sound stage but it does depend on various another factors as well.. But if your phone does not have a headphone jack then you can go for one... Nice work 👍
I was wondering about that amp question for long time and was thinking the same!Thank you for clearing something so basic that other tubers won't do!
This is one of the best educational video regarding DACs and headphones amps that I have ever seen. I arrived to the same conclusions after years of painstaking learning, reading reviews, watching youtubers, spending thousand and thousand of dollars in the hobby. Slowly you start to realize most CZcams reviewers are just plain fake, when you learn what they are claiming to hear is beyond human ears capability regarding DACs and Amps.
I love ASR, they measure DACs and Amps, but nowadays almost all of them are completely transparent to human ears, still I want and enjoy to know which one is the king of the hill in specifications, even knowing that I will not hear the difference. Also exposing companies which claim to be the best and charging premium when in reality there are very lousy in the technical part, taking to you audioquest.
My past headphones were all turned beaches and steel series and looking to get out of the purely “gaming headset” market. Does something like a BTR5 fall into the waste category?(currently looking at a pair of HD560S). Want to be able to listen on computer, iPad, iPhone at home.
@@LoneSkag hd560s is easy to drive and apple products tend to have really good dac/amp sections. The quedlix 5k is better than the btr5 though as it has eq
i needed this video a month ago. i literally was having a meltdown over this very topic and everything everywhere said you NEED an amp and couldn't find what i wanted. i finally settled but i wish i had this sooner. it really put a damper on me wanting to go further in this hobby
What did you get?
I just got myself into it without even trying but now I have purchased the classic Sennheiser HD6XX and a simple Topping DX3 Pro+ for which I will use a god damn aux extension cable straight from AliExpress and I will not by tube pre-amp or LPS or anything else I can promise
@@adnaannamazee9763 top 80 questions that will never be answered
Just found your channel and I super appreciate your no-nonsense style and knowledgeability. Also your accent makes me nostalgic for sg ✌🏼
Subscribed after watching one of your videos the other day. This is the 2nd video I’ve watched and it’s just as good as the 1st one. Clear and concise and no B.S. Thanks.
Yeah, you got everything just about right Crinacle. The only reason I have an amp (to be more specific, a receiver) is because of the equipment that I have. For my set up, I have a Pioneer vsx-32 and connected to it is a turntable; an RCA switcher in which I have a tower, a laptop and a aux cable adapter; a roku; and for speakers I have a pair of Sony speakers. I grew up with this kind of set up thanks to my parents and my love for listening to vinyl; later down the road I intend on getting a tape deck. In terms of putting headphones through it, well…I just put a pair of Sony WM-1000XM4 and even then it's just to make sure that no one else hears it; mostly for night time.
I’m honestly glad I got my Ifi amps a XCan portable and a zen stack but I also got planars that don’t sound the same without one and inevitably use them to listen for everything movies music gaming with a multitude of ccheadphones I’m super happy with the setup and eq with peace gui and apo it’s all pretty amazing
Love you bro, this review is amazing. The jokes you make and your personality overall is amazing and makes me smile.
Headphones > Amplifiers
what a controversial opinion
well said
Headphoness > dacs > audio file > software > amplifiers
audio file( I mean not shitty file ) > headphone > dac /amp > player
Guy is very direct , honest and technically accurate. Thanks for addressing some myth issues.
And that sincere outro, love it
I think it falls into the "limit cases" box but something that can happen quite often with very sensitive IEM and internal DACs (PC or phone) or cheap dongle is the white noise/hissing/distortion noise level is audible and make the experience from somewhat to a lot less enjoyable.
In those case finding the dongle which works can indeed make a difference but clearly you don't need a beefy AMP, just something that works and there are plenty of option sub 50$ (even sub 20$ for most case scenarios).
Great info glad I found this channel, I bought a headphone amp for my PC mainly because I wanted a physical volume knob instead of having to adjust via software, was only $29 on Amazon at the time but it also made my headphones sound at least louder, before getting the amp I had to run them at max volume on my PC and sometimes it didnt seem like enough, Sony MDR XB500 headphones.
I do like having a fiio e10k simply for the "volume knob" separate from windows volume, and because it allows me to use shorter cables on my headphones. I got it used maybe 6 years ago for $50 so it feels worth it to me.
Great vid as usual, Crin'. Thanks so much for your hard work and dedication. What audiophiles really need, mythbusters.👋
first vid of yours i've watched and you touched on some really good points, thanks for the video!
bro, couldn't agree more....thanks for the video. I bought a AKG K612 Pro recently, apparently a "very hard to drive" headphone....works just fine without any amp on both my macbook and iphone. So glad I landed on this video and saved my self some money, not to mention the headache of figuring out which amp to buy
For me personally, the simpler, the better when it comes to audio. Also, more gain stages usually means more noise.
yes well that has been a mantra for many decades
This was delightful. Like watching a stand up comedian talking about audiophiles. I crawled down the rabbit hole years ago, and everything you say here is true. Thanks for a fun video.
This is a really great video. Man, You deliver great info in a funny way. It's addictive! Thanks for the info.
Thanks for posting this. I got a pair of Sennheiser 599s recently, and was wondering if I was missing their full potential. It's refreshing to see a perspective that's reasonable, and not hyperbolic. I'm now a subscriber:)
It depends. If you have at least apple dongle, then you're good. Same would not be true for HD600.
Preference for rotary volume control is my only reason for having a discrete portable amplifier. XDuoo XQ-10 was the most affordable way I could find to accomplish that goal.
I have a LG V60 with its own DAC. Now I realize that it's not the best but it seems to drive most of my headphones just fine for me. Great video Sir
I just recently discovered your content and loving them more and more.
03:30 Most important point, this guy knows audio. Most people are looking for a certain sound signature, and that depends on the headphones themselves. An amp just improves what you have, you will change nothing.
There are people in audiophile community who are spending more time to compare gears, and pay all the attention to the 1% difference which requires listeners to fully focus on those minor details instead of the music itself in order to even notice that difference. Then, those people will start to publish their finding with very colorful langage with the intention to let you believe that your muisc listening experience totally depends on those 1% of tiny difference.
Spending your hard earned money on headphones or IEMs, don't try to spend more to turn your existing headphones/IEMs into something much better.
So so true
It's funny that it's actually kinda difficult to find audiophile musicians, no wonder why.
I can understand the technical aspect of it. I guess it’s similar with the PC community. It is an engrossing hobby - getting into the weeds of all the complexities and impressive tech. But you’re right - at the end of the day the user gets the exact same experience. Even if there might be different things happening behind the scenes
Wenge zhu: sometimes it's 0%..
I'll stick to my Fiio BTR5, and even before finishing the video, I can agree no one NEEDS to spend that much
Ive seen someone stick a UTS5 upside down on a HD600 with an adapter as well
Yea I got a HD6XX and people keep saying my current interface doesn't put out enough juice for comfortably loud experience. Welp, I got a BTR5. It is sure louder but my interface works just fine. But BTR5 itself is really good for many other purposes so I still have it. Imagine watching TV at night with superb audio without disrupting anyone.
@@just__khang Honestly, the 6XX is pretty easy to drive. I have a Schiit Magnius and I find I'm always turning it down for my 6XXs. I have a BTR3 which can also drive it comfortably.
Indeed ... I bought the BTR5 for the Bluetooth features, but with the exception of a pair of HE400se, I don't think I ever really felt like I needed the power from it. It was a well spent $110 and I use it on two PCs plus my phone. I own a pair of Apple dongles for when I am on the road.
bro that's not cheap
Thank you! Very much of the stuff you can buy is either complete voodoo or can very well be measured, but not heard. A close friend of mine who has all the voodoo equipment you can think of (silver cables - no, not silver-plated, but completely silver, 2000 Euro AMP DAC, Sennheiser HD 800S etc...) was very annoyed when we did a hearing comparison between FLAC and 320 kbit/s MP3s. He couldn't spot the difference. Neither can I.
Years ago, I ended up selling my Sennheiser HD800 and am a very happy man with my Beyerdynamic DT 880 and a SoundblasterX G5 amp. For a fraction of the cost of the HD800 alone. To me, the most important thing about head/earphones is the frequency response curve to be as neutral as possible. For a different experience, I can always use a good EQ. Spend the money you saved on one pair of headphones for each scenario that you come across (noise cancelling or IEM for when you're on the go, closed when you don't want to disturb anybody at home and open when you want to enjoy a more "spacious" feel). Maybe even buy a pair of good speakers if you want to feel the bass.
You can cover ALL those scenarios (and cover them well!) for less than 2.000 Euros if you don't want to worship the voodoo-gods of audio.
That all being said, if you just WANT those gorgeous HD800 S or Hifiman Aryasusavanada-whatever together with a 4.000 Euro-DAC and you can afford it, go for it. It's not about what you NEED, but what makes you happy. Just like cars.
Love this. Been searching, bumping my price range up, thinking i NEED a great amp/DAC. Got my sub for the honesty
I was considering buying an amp to drive my SSP. I ended up plugging it into an ordinary UGreen soundcard and it actually got amped to the level I needed it to. Talk about Cables next lol
When the video starts with "save your money" you know its a honest and good video
Dude you were right. The little Apple dongle works great with HD 58X. Convenient. Cheap. And sounds good. I’m usually just using YT Music so it not like I’m missing out.
i love this channel lol, the way you explain things is so funny, keep the content coming
Everyone knows the only reason to have an amplifier is the analog volume knob.
This.
It's just quality of life stuff.
also super clutch when your pc is not close to you.
truuuuuuee
Best combo to have in your car...volume knob and subwoofer bass knob.
...and even then I rarely change it once set - since I'm usually pausing music via keyboard shortcuts and shifting volume up/down also by shortcuts depending on song or if I need to talk to someone briefly.
To your point, an amp isn't ALWAYS necessary. HOWEVER, the Qudelix 5k (with all your presets 🤭) is a good EQ for various equipment, like my car stereo, 7hz Timeless that req more drive, etc. Beyond that, you're absolutely right
I have a dedicated custom build DAC for with my phone, the main reason I use it is because A) the volume wheel is very convenient and much more precise then my phones buttons B) It has APTx bt connectivity which allows me to listen on my HE400i's which is incredible
I only wanted to have a small, cheap, standalone amp. So I bought a Fiio A1. Been very happy with it so far. And it drives my Sennheiser HD 280 Pros.
Thanks for this video. The audio world needs it.
I got 2 different headphones, they sounded great with my phone, iPad, and PC but they weren’t as loud as I’d like, so I got an amp, now they’re loud enough, and there’s the option to go too loud, however bad it is. I find the Apple usb c dongle more likeable than the lightning one, but both are indeed fine.
Thank you for keeping it real - glad I found your channel.
Just wanted to say, really enjoy your style! And of course great content too
Now this is the consumer advice I like to hear! I've been running a Line 6 UX2 I got for free years ago, broken, and soldered back into existence. Despite having barely-functional drivers on my operating system and a variety of odd bugs, it's consistently less trouble and just as good-sounding as the studio gear I use at work, or the expensive amps any of my friends have. Unless you're trying to run a pair of big speakers, amps are a luxury. When I switched to a pair of really sensitive IEMs a while back, I had a bit of white noise, and a small $50 iFi adapter was enough to solve the problem. I certainly wouldn't recommend the hassle of fixing literally broken audio interfaces to save money, but it's certainly possible and I still daily-drive it for work.
100% agree with this, I had one of those USB-C dongles for my Motorola when I first got my DT770s and the difference between that and the headphone jack was amazing. I would've probably stuck solely to it if my PC could actually run my DTs as well, but even then a £60 BTR3 should give 'em more than enough punch. No need to buy a diablo just because I want to crash cars into walls with DT770s on.
Im using a usbc dongle but it always causes a crackle in my left earbud or headphone. Have any idea why?
Thank you for an actual good explanation with some signal to noise ratio and talking about human hearing cases
So much honesty combined with wonderful humor.
I loved this video
Back in September, I was getting into the audiophile game and picked up a desktop amp thinking I needed it for everything. Now I only use it on the solemn occasion I want to use my 250 ohm 990s
Hey man, I want to buy the 990 250 ohm and use it with an aux Samsung dongle 🙃 ane people online say it's not having problems with loudness, and the audiophiles respond with WELL BUT THE QUALITY'S SHIT and the bass is low and the trebles are harsh and wonky and idk, something.
Can I buy the dt990 250ohm and enjoy Spotify, or will it really change the way they perform in a quality sense and/or be quiet enough to cause frustration?
Edit - I'm in the EU and supposedly the dongle here is half the power of the US version?
@@ile_klikow So I would say to get the full range out of them you do need an amplifier. You can still get a great sound out of them, but if you are going to mainly use them without an amp, I'd go with the 80ohm model
@@yeti4269 thanks for answering :) as I'm a noob now can I also ask if there's going to be a big quality difference with 80 and 250 assuming best possible conditions for both?
Crin, can't you just show the measurements of a headphone like HD800S plugged on apple dongle vs on your Topping A90? I think this really shows if high-end phones doesn't benefit at all if the measurements shows the same exact graph. Isn't it a good test? Thanks man.
You should watch his video on graphs. My expectation is that the difference you get from amps or dacs will not change a moderately smoothed FR graph to any significant degree. The other graphs, maybe???
Remember if ur eu it’s half the power
@@davidcho6145 That’s basically his point. Having (the lack of) differences shown as a graph will be a lot more convincing than the same verbal arguments repeated all over the place
@@BrotherSisterHi nah but you're not getting what David said. If the the differences really do exist they'd be minor, which will not show in smoothened frequency graphs.
@@ishanjoshi5957 If the differences are so minor that they wouldn’t show up on a smoothed frequency response graph, then it would be enough to swing many arguments about amps “fixing” bass response, soundstage, treble extension, etc.
I needed help connecting the dots. Thank you.
Great Talk. I recently purchased the Samsung dongle for my Note 9 and totally agree that the sound is far superior through the USB-C but the volume level is still low. Admittedly I'm using 32ohm DT880 Beyer. I think I may need something with a little more oomph :)😀
Just bought myself a second DAC/AMP (needed a different form factor) and even though I do not have very expensive headphones, I can hear difference in what I have. Would I recommend getting a DAC/AMP to someone who can spend 200$ on a set up? Definitely would not, as long as they have something half decent to power the headphone of their choice. Subscribed.
i recently got into audio more seriously and this channel has been so fucking helpful
I was scared for a second that i fell for these myths too, but then i remembered that the first "hifi "headphone that i bought was the Beyerdynamic Dt 770 pro 250 ohm version. And yeah those fall into those fringe cases.
@@YouMystMe I think they do "work" but on really low volumes?? Idk for sure
I was soo lucky when I wanted a dac/amp for my HD 58x jubilee, I don't remember how it sounded when I ran the headphones from my pcs motherboard dac/amp but it is very possible that it did not make a noticeable difference. BUT the dac/amp I got (Ifi audio Zen Dac) has a "true bass" button and it makes the low-end soo much more enjoyable on these headphones. They really need a boost to the bass and with the "true bass" turned on the bass is pretty much at a perfect level for most things I listen to. And the best part is that the highs and the mids stay exactly the same when I turn it on or off. PS. I have not tried to use a EQ to achieve the same effect, that might work so I guess you could say I could save the money I spent on the Dac/amp if that would be the case but I have to admit that just having a nice looking dac/amp makes me enjoy the listening experience a bit more, just turning the volume nob instead of changing the volume in windows is far superior.
Please let this be the comment that keeps you going. Do not stop making videos. I enjoy this even though I have no knowledge about sound or whatever you call the topic. DO NOT STOP!
Wish more youtubers would explain things easier like this guy. Over-explaining tech DONT make you sound smart. Subscribed.
Bought the Dioko and listened (spotify) to it through apple lightning dongle, the sound was detailed but very very thin (mid-midhigh volume). I would describe it has no 'body' across the range. Pluged directly it into my macbook pro and straight away a huge difference (matching similar volume output to the phone), full 'bodied' sound with crisp details. listened back and forth with my iphone to confirm the sound. Just by listening to it, having more 'power' turned me from returning the iem to listening to music for half an hour straight....maybe just me...
I find myself using your video as a sleeping comfort. I like your relaxing style and informative atst.
I have the Hifiman Arya and when I upgraded from the topping A30 to the burson soloist I thought the difference was day and night
The real reasons to get a separate amplifier:
-Physical volume knob. Way better than clicking and dragging a slider in software, IMO.
-Some amps have multiple inputs. If you listen to two or more sources, an amp can consolidate them into one headphone output.
-Aesthetics. Some amps just look cool.
-Balanced output. I don't know if balanced is any better than unbalanced (last I checked, it usually isn't), but you definitely won't be able to use a 2.5 mm balanced cable without a 2.5 mm jack.
The connection doesn't matter when you are under the 10 meters margin
What about the floor noise?
And if you have 250ohm headphones, even 80 ohm is big enough for some things to not make enought juice to power them.
@@UmbraWeiss spoken like someone who didn't watch the video
No headphone is balanced. They either come with 3.5mm or 6.3mm. The only exception is electrostats and some very rare models
I needed an amplifier to really rock my AKG 270 75 Ohm headphones. Full volume on my I-phone brought music only to moderate levels. Spending $109 on a Fulla Schiit DAC/Headphone Amplifier helped tremendously in power and clarity went up too. Now my Beyerdynamic Pro-X (48 Ohm) headphones sound good and get pretty loud straight out of my phone using the white factory dongle. Ohms do matter.
The key to an amplifier is that it is linear and provides the transient dynamic range that a given headphone is capable of. This requires “headroom” to some extent. And it’s the difference between being “loud enough” and properly driving a given headphone. This is well explained in this article:
www.audeze.com/blogs/technology-and-innovation/sensitivity-impedance-and-amplifier-power
One application that I have found that makes transient dynamics very apparent is video game audio with sudden loud explosions such in titles like Squad or Battlefield. My Asgard 3 provides all the power I will ever need and I bought it brand new with a 5 year warranty for $200. My first and hopefully last dedicated amplifier. One thing I learned about is the Audio hobby is full of delusion, but it doesn’t have to be. And I use an Apple Dongle or even my Xbox Controller for easy to drive headphones and IEM’s. I didn’t choose the products based on measurements.
What you say is probably true, but that article doesn't sound convincing tbh. "Here is an image that shows clipping when you don't have enough headroom", without mentioning where did the graph come from, how did they get the result, what kind of gear they use, how extreme did they drive the source etc. All that they're doing is just explaining their theory, just like how some people insist on burn-in use material science theory and whatnot saying that materials will change it's property when it's flexed and relaxed, then proceed to provide stress-strain curve or something. Is the theory true? Probably yes. Does it translate to the burn-in effect? Apparently not.
I'm not saying transient is a myth like burn-in, it's not, it's most probably true. But I think many people kinda overstated the difficulty in achieving good transient. The loud explosion thingy you experienced might be that you just play at higher volume compared to the source you used before. I'm 99% confident that people with mid-fi headphones like sundara or 6xx or he400 etc will not need any amps higher that the standard $100 ones (magni, atom etc), if at all.
@@Summer-xu8qu If you find a better article, please mention it. That one just explained it in a way that I felt was pretty easy to understand, despite the fact that they are trying to sell their planar magnetic drivers as taking better advantage of headroom than dynamic drivers. It comes down to the speed and control of the driver being better, despite the same average volume level. The difference is certainly not night and day but noticeable. Take a given headphone, maybe the 6XX or something similar that is somewhat amp dependent and compare it on an Apple Dongle and a 3.5 watt Asgard 3 with similar volume. There will be a distinctive difference in dynamics, especially “transients”. However, even the article mentions it’s not necessarily something that you can notice in all recordings. Just ones that’s have have specific types of transient spikes. I mention video game explosions for the simple fact that it is something easy to repeat and shows the effect. But find a track with a forceful percussive drum hit, and I’m sure it would also be noticeable. We are absolutely talking about a marginal change of course, my Apple Dongle works well enough for many headphones. That’s why I bothered to mention why I felt like the Asgard 3 was such a good buy at only $200. It can get the most out of almost any headphone.
@@Summer-xu8qu The image doesn't _need_ accurate descriptions of how it was obtained because it isn't there to prove anything. It is there to show something, which is that clipping will occur if you cut off the dynamic range from the top. This doesn't need to be proven with a measurement because it's mathematically true. You might also notice that it doesn't even appear to be a recording of some sort in the first place. There is no gear, no source, just a waveform that has its peaks cut off, which you can just as easily do in software.
Why does this not need proof? Well, the relationship between voltage, power and loudness is precisely defined. Limited power or limited voltage means limited loudness, which means there is a maximum amplitude for the waveform. Which gear you use and how you measure it doesn't change that. It's not "their theory", it's physics.
_Granted, gear can have an effect here if it applies a limiter. This, if properly implemented, will lower the peaks to a deliverable amplitude, meaning you still lose dynamic range, but it will prevent clipping._
The real question is how much headroom for transient peaks you actually need. This obviously depends on the tracks you listen to, and how much power that headroom equates to depends on your desired listening volume.
This question is what I've been trying to find answers for (other and more detailed than the "30 dB" rule of thumb), which is how I got to this video in the first place.
@@justuslm Well obviously, if you push any amp hard enough, it's gonna clip (assuming you don't blow your headphones out first), it's physics, it's common sense, whatever. But if you want to claim that "some amp will not have sufficient headroom for a particular headphones and it will clip during the transients", you have to demonstrate it using a particular amp with a particular headphones to convince people that "see, this is what happens when amp does not have enough headroom", instead of using a theory to "prove" that an arbitrary amp will clip under normal listening volume. Yes, I know that the article is just explaining what transient and headroom is and why it's needed, but in order for the article to not be meaningless, it has to at least demonstrate it using a set of gears irl, if not I can just say "well, that's just in theory, in real life, x amp already have sufficient headroom for most headphones, you don't need anything more than that." ( which is often the argument from people like me)
It's not hard to use physics to "prove" something. According to physics, different cable with different thickness, materials and length will have different resistance and different resistance will affect the sound, but does that matter in real life? No? Why? Because below a certain threshold, it doesn't matter. It's the same with headroom. Above a certain threshold, any additional headroom is meaningless. Yes, I agree, the real question here is how much headroom we need. So to say that "X amp sounds better than Y amp because the additional headroom is needed" you need to prove that the Y amp will clip under normal listening volume. And I stand by my statement, the standard $100 dollar magni or atom is sufficient for most of the mid-fi, you won't get any meaningful "headroom" out of a $400+ balanced setup, and certainly not "control", "speed", "refinement" or any that kind of audiophile term. If a $200 headphones need $400+ of amplification to sound good, then it's not a good headphones.
@@Summer-xu8qu Okay, I can see that argument. Now, I will still argue that you don't need to actually _test_ this, but using specific examples of at least somewhat common amps and heaphones that will result in low headroom would definitely show how realistic it is to expect issues. You can, of course, look up specs and put them in Headphonesty's power calculator (link in the video description) until you find such a matchup (although this, again, depends on how much headroom you need/want), but the article should have given at least one example.
To give such an example, the Hifiman Susvara can not be driven by the Qudelix 5k, even in balanced mode, if the desired listening loudness is 80 dB SPL and the desired headroom is 30 dB. It would only reach 107 dB SPL at max output and thus only 27 dB of headroom (this _sounds_ like a small difference but is actually the difference between a desired 502 mW at 5.49 Vrms and a reached 266 mW at 4.00 Vrms).
Now, that physics don't "prove" anything in real life is, in my opinion, at least when it comes to loudness, wrong. Yes, physics say that different cables will have different resistance (or impedance, since sound is AC), but they also say that the resistances themselves and also the differences between them are very low and thus won't have any noticeable effect.
With that said, let me say that I completely agree that most mid- and even high-fi headphones can be driven by fairly "weak", and thus affordable, amps. This does not go against the maths and the physics, though.
But, coming back to my main point, which we agree on, I still can't say for sure how much headroom I need. The article mentions that transients can peak up to 50 dB above the perceived loudness of the track, but this obviously depends on what you listen to, and at which volume. Unfortunately I have neither a way to measure either of those things for myself and my listening habits (although the difference between transient peaks and perceived loudness actually can be calculated from the audio file and doesn't need measuring, but I don't know how to do that), nor do I have any empirical data on whether it makes sense to use the commonly used values of 80 dB SPL listening level and 30 dB headroom or not (physics can't predict people's choices).
The reason I want to figure this out, ideally for me personally but alternatively as an empirical average for orientation, is that I'm currently running a setup that peaks at 108 dB. Is that enough for me? The only way to know without the data mentioned above would be to buy a stronger amp and try it, which I obviously want to avoid if it's unnecessary.
Thanks man, I was contemplating on getting a better amp or a headphone.
I got a BTR5 just to help a couple pairs of low-sensitivity headphones get to a good volume with reasonable headroom. It's relatively cheap, it's portable, and I swear the noise floor goes down on every headphone I use them with. Pretty sure that little nugget is going to meet my amplification needs for a long time to come.
Nugget, Dankpods I assume?
@@ll-oj4rk there's a lot of dankpods viewers here
In the 80’s we always judged the best amplifiers by the ones with the lowest THD (total harmonic distortion). As far as I know, this is still the best indicator of the quality of amplification.
I'm still using the Fx-Audio Dac-X6 from when Z first talked about it. My friend got an Edition XS and was planning to get another amp because the Dac-X6 wasn't loud enough, and I just told him that you can put the X6 in high output mode with a few easy steps. He's still using the X6 to this day
I was running sony professional headphones first from regular headphone out then making up a lead to run them off speaker output of a hifi amp. The difference was absolutely amazing even at a reasonable volume. It's all about having the headroom to run the bass properly and not clipping any transient peaks. So ok you don't need an amp but you don't need to hear things sound punchy and clean i guess erm
Thanks for a very informative video. I used to be one of those who believed in all of the audiophile lore out there but have over the years taken a no-bullshit stance on audio. My Sennheiser IE-8 IEMs sound just as good out of my Musical Fidelity X-Can and my HTC usb-dongle. And I can drive my HD650s just fine out of a FiiO portable player =)
I use an old technics receiver from the 90’s that some guy gave me for free to power my HD600’s. And I prefer it to my schitt amp.
I'd love to see a video like this on DACs, you are the best!
low distortion in an amplifier for high quality headphones is probably important. as well as low noise level and the ability to create a large sound image and a good tonal balance. and Preferably a device that is not scaling down the sound. some devices can obviously give poor results when scaling down a sample rate from 192kHz to 48kHz. an example of that is the original Apple dongle. The treble can become a bit cold character type. There are 3.5 mm adapters for the iPhone that support 24 bit 192 kHz