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Rock Island Arsenal M15 General Officer's Model
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2018
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The M15 General Officer’s pistol was the replacement for the Colt Model M, which had long been the military issue sidearm for General-level officers. By the late 1960s, however, the supply of Model M pistols was running out, and Colt no longer had the design (the Pocket Hammerless) in production. Dale Hoffman, Superintendent of Small Arms at Rock Island Arsenal designed his own shortened (4.25 inch barrel) and accurized 1911 and submitted it to the Army unsolicited as a replacement for the Model M.
This resulted in trials in 1971, where Hoffman’s gun was put up against both steel and aluminum framed S&W Model 39s, a 9mm Colt Series 70, and a Walther P38. Hoffman’s design came out the best, and was formally adopted in 1972. Between 1972 and 1974, the Rock Island Arsenal converted 1004 stock 1911A1 pistol into M15s, and they were issued out until 1982, when the supply was exhausted. At that point, General officers began to be issued standard 1911A1 pistols, and later Beretta 92s. As an interesting side note, any General issued an M15 had the option of purchasing it from the government for $147 upon retirement - and I would presume that most took that option.
If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow
If you look really close at the glass you can see the reflection of the armed RIA employee thats holding Ian hostage.
Ian pulls on authentic Russian WII winter balaclava: 'I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!'
He's waiting to hand Ian his Hi-Point so that Gun Jesus can turn it into an HK
I hope someday he manages to escape the basement of rock island
Right, because they don't have to kick Ian out of the rooms full of antique guns, so they can lock up, and go home to their families. "I know, I know, but we can't just set up a cot in the corner for you to live here. Please, just put that back together, and let us put it back in the case." To be perfectly honest, if I had the access he, and Nicolas "The Chieftan" Moran have to their collection, I would forget to eat and sleep.
@@Psiberzerker that's more like it.
My father received his circa 1978, s/n in the 300 range. Nicely finished. They were issued with their own set of leather gear; an open-top holster, a "Patton" belt and a magazine pouch. My father liked the belt, but rarely had the pistol out of the box. Somebody once said that a good belt/holster/pouch set could cost as much as the pistol.
(Takes already existing, very reliable U.S sidearm, make some modifications)
U.S Military- “Yeah, we’ll take those”
Post from Everywhere ILL TAKE YOUR ENTIRE STOCK!
Actually... they took existing sidearms, and no 1911 aren't very reliable, and had their in-house gunsmith modify them instead of buying brand new one's.
Just like this General Officer model 1911, Ian is cut off a bit at the end.
*Bond* *theme* *intensifies*
@@micfail2 A year late but that's Laeffy (With a weird letter my English keyboard can't spell out). You can find a video of him with the exact same name, it's just a compilation of him being himself in the Norwegian army (If I still remember it correctly). You should totally check it out if you're curious.
A bit of an abrupt ending, no?
Yes, it was. I don’t like these abrupt endings, and I would personally like it better if he were to jus-
Yes, it was. I don’t like these abrupt endings, and I would personally like it better if he were to jus-
Citizen Snips lol
reminded me of The Sopranos
wonder if it was to play nice with CZcams...
A nice pistol for the highest level desk jockeys who will never use it.
@@exquisitecorpse4917 The military is a socialist command economy though...
That explains the hyper luxurious accouterments to leadership in every socialist and communist regime ever.
@@exquisitecorpse4917 ok karl marx, calm down
If you worked hard to be in their position you would want to carry something nice as well.
As an enlisted.. the General is nothing to underestimate.
Army: alright we’re running out of side arms to give to our officers, what do we do?
Sensible officer: just give us full size 1911s
Army: maybe maybe
Other officer: spend a mountain of cash to buy 1911s....only they’re smaller
Army: I like the way you think son.
The Army already owned the pistols. They merely gave their in-house machinists and gunsmiths something to do. No point keeping them on the payroll if they aren't busy.
The Rock Island Arsenal is run by the Army. They made the guns, not bought them. Only expenditure was paying the people to make a few General Officer pistols when they would've been making full 1911s anyway.
Rock Island: Hold Our Beers
Amen. A-freakin'-men.
Did you watch the video? Idiot lol
I really enjoy getting home from work at night, firing up the pc, pour myself a large icy beer and a bowl of jalapeno cheese puffs, then sit back and enjoy Ian's latest weapon info session.
Its almost therapy.
Estimate Price: $6,500 - $9,500
"This was kinda the last of the specialty custom made general officers pistols and aa..."
AND WHAT?! I NEED TO KNOW!!!
They definitely picked an odd font for the pistol.
Not to mention butt-ugly.
It'a very 1970's style font, sort of like a disco or funk album title.
"Walther apparently submitted a stock P38"
The massive balls it would take to do that...
"We dont have enough pistols for General-level officers! What you suggest we should do?"
"Maybe reduce number of General-level officers?"
A very Stalinesque approach.
+Jari Heiska - Fucking a man :)))
The number of General officers is actually capped by Congress.
Hey Ian, you got yourself one hell of presentation there. Being a 1911 enthusiast, you hit the ball out of the park. I can basically break a 1911 to the bare frame and evaluate each part to authenticity with the books I have. So, Congrats!!!!! This is one of my favorite vids you have made!!!!!!!!!!!
Simple and beautiful; really like the sights. What a beauty, thanks for sharing Ian.
RIArmory: "We've done a lot of match work on this pistol, a lot of time and care went into this."
Military: "Uhm, we can see the old Colt markings on the slide..."
RIArmory: "Well, I mean... not THAT much time and care."
Saw a couple of those at the NRA museum in Fairfax VA.
Great place to go highly recommend it
A very nice handgun of considerable quality. I first saw this in an old Small Arms of the World, and was very intrigued by it. Now, many years later, and after a 23 year career in the army, I am intrigued by the idea that such a project was justified except as a status symbol, since G.O.'s are the least likely people in the military to actually need to fire a weapon of any type- in fact, folks travel with them whose job is specifically to do that, if required.
FWIW: Serial No. GO730 was issued in 1979.
Just in time to get my mind of my depression... thanks Ian. Never stop doing what you’re doing, please.....
Citizen Snips no kidding
Squid Master i fucked up my relationship with the mother of my son, and now she's considering moving to Idaho to be with the new person she's talking to who's in the air force . the worst part is that I know he's a better person than me.
Ian helped me through some rough times in my life. It gets better.
teenvogue( )/story/why-you-shouldnt-say-it-gets-better-to-someone-with-depression
but thanks
Bless you for turning the barrel bushing the wrong way. I have made that fumble a few times. Now... blindfold, field strip, and reassemble 10 times in a row. There... you will never have that problem again.
Nice looking pistol, thanks Ian!
Genuine question: why not just tell general officers they can supply their own gun? It’s not like logistics is going to be a problem, and would have saved all the expense of the trials!
ah, the old British model
Because the General's do the telling 😊
+Matt Hayward - I think the answer to this question is, that this gun is like a Super Bowl ring. It's more of a commemorative kind.
But because the army is obliged by law to run trials on every new equipment it needs, they just publish the request among manufacturers and run the trials with those who applied.
And, small scale corruption, off-course. Whachagon`do, eh? :)
True....but you know there’s gonna be that one guy who buys a sidearm in either a really obscure or really expensive caliber and that the army will tell him no that’s not on the approved list yadda yadda yadda
I.e., General Patton and his Remington R51.
So basically he made a Colt's Commander....
A national Match Commander
Colt Supreme Commander.
:)
At some point, don't we just call it "The Dictator"?
So an RIA gun sold by RIA. Makes sense
A Colt MFG gun turned into a RIA gun AND then sold by RIA! Lol.
And definitely shouldn't be confused with the IRA, or the other IRA
@@johnathanfoster4993 Yes, this is from the real Rock Island Arsenal. A.S. Government armory that did development work on military small arms
I found this gun at a local shop on my lunch break I'm buying it!
It would be really awesome if Ian found and made a video on AVS-36 or the DT machine gun.
Heard of these before. Pretty interesting, and probably decent guns. Not sure why the designer felt he needed an open ended spring plug. Full length guide rods tend to be a solution in search of a problem. I fell for that with my first 1911, a Lightweight Commander, back in 1994. Turned out it was more reliable without the guide rod and buffer pad, so i put the stock parts back in. I have also heard of a shortened version of the gun, with a shorter grip frame as well (possibly 5 rounds?). I don't think there were many made, more of a proof of concept than anything. But it gave rise to the Colt Officers' ACP, which for a long time was the smallest 1911 available (excepting the Star PD, which is not a true 1911). So some good came from all the experimentation. Great video as always. Thank you
Thanks Ian, interesting pistol, I've never seen one of these before. I assumed they went from issuing the Colt 1903s to standard M9s along with the Meyers Belt for GO wear. You don't see too many GOs wearing the pistol these days but the Meyers belt is commonly worn with the battle uniform as a badge of rank (it's also easier to see at a distance then subdued rank devices).
The question that comes to mind is why they didn't simply buy new Commanders from Colt instead of going to the considerable trouble of re-working a standard 1911-A1. The reason that comes to mind is the budget. With Vietnam winding down, I doubt the DoD was keen on authorizing the expense of a new pistol when there were thousands of 1911s still in inventory that could be modified. At this time the RIA was the Mecca for the service pistol/rifle development. They ran courses to teach armorers how to build national match guns from standard issue items, so they had the material and know how to customize issue guns. Not to put too fine a point on it but that pistol doesn't really appear to have many " national match" parts on it. The slide, barrel and bushing, trigger and sights were different on an NM service pistol in addition to the hand fitting of the frame by peening the slide rails. That said however, the pistol you present is a 'right smart piece of work', and a nice addition to anyone's 1911 collection.
The original prototypes used more National Match parts.
So my understanding of the officers 1911 is that it was a shortened vertical frame and shortened barrel length. Colt took the frame and made the CCO out of the it that used the commander slide and the officers frame.
But this guy is different.
Best channel!
Thats a nice little pistol, i like it!
I love my Rock island 1911, very well fitted. I polished the feed ramp and few other internals to make it run like it should, but besides that, it's a great gun for the price.
martin prince Rock Island Armory and Rock Island Arsenal might be two different things
Alex Moore
Sorry, didn't catch that, still a good gun for the price though and they're hand fitted.
This was very interesting. I had thought the even more cut-down Colt 'Officers' Model' pistol was THE issue pistol, sold commercially.
I love this company
Only Ian could find a way to use "escuthceon" in a video 😎
Could you do a video on danish Espingoles? They were basically muzzle loaded “machine guns” that worked like Roman candles.
“Most unsolicited firearm submissions are not accepted”
Who makes decisions in the Army? General Officers. Why is it then surprising that a special firearm designed exclusively for General Officers as a symbol of authority would be quickly accepted?
🤣🤣🤣
Realistically, the evaluation of unsolicited proposals often means diverting funds from the budgets of official programs and projects.
@@danielwatters1203 the cost of procuring 1,004 pistols and parts for GOs acorss the whole army is practically nothing in terms of spending. The army probably spends more on paper in a day than this program which lasted a decade
You should do the M45/M45A1.
I second that.
The 'should have been forgotten before it started weapon.'
In my history class during my own couple college semester,I learned that general Eisenhower and Chuck Yeager once carry that m15 pistol during their ww2 campaign when carry while surviving as a allie commander sidearm
president excellent pistol fantastic great alot of fun shooting there great excited everyshoot perfict fantastic have nice day ^^^
Very reliable sidearm 👍
It's a beautiful thing when any military finds the correct balance between the rigidity of the military complex and the extraordinary boondoggles that cost way more than they should or are cancelled with no lessons learned or systems adopted.
jjohnston94 it was in my brain but didn't make it into the comment on review that this state of balance in my opinion is extraordinarily fleeting and rare. Above comment came off as if it could be a permanent state of affairs. Edit: And thanks for making me realize it.
So where does the Colt Combat Commander and Colt Commander line fall into this? Seems that they were around first, and being used to some degree by officers.
Wow! Beautiful pistol!!!
Edit: damn autowriter
That would be a really good EDC gun, powerful, enough rounds, compact, and more accurate and easy to shoot than the standard
Can you please review the colt mk iv series 80 commanding officers model?
I wonder if any officers requested just a full size a1 with the better sights and trigger
That hollow guide rod plug. Yep, it's definitely an officer's pistol.
This goes off topic but I put this here because this is fresh video. I have watched some of the sniper rifle videos. If and when you do the next video on a gun with scope, please set a decent sight through it to give a proper look at them thank you.
That is incredibly difficult, camera lenses and reticles don't really mix. He does sometimes show it if it turns out, but especially on those dark old scopes it's really hard to show what the view through the scope is like with a camera.
Still a better ending than Twilight
Are they accurate? Are the slides pinched and lapped/hand fitted like the original National Match pistols were?
How it is, that this was earlier than the adoption of the M9, yet got a higher number? Or where they a different type of firearm on a different numbering "branch"?
Ian, you're looking more tired every day. Out of curiosity, how many of these videos do you record per day ?
Or is that why the editing got "innovative" at the end of this video ?
Do we need to assemble a team to free you ? :O
As Karl once said during one of your 2GACM videos : "I'm from the internet and I'm here to help !" :)
RIA makes him do this! See how he tries to say "Oh please help me" but they cut the video.
My dad had a Colt 91 when I was a kid. I liked that thing. He carried it in Iraq.
whatever did they do to the p38? that gun normally is complete non-prob.
Is a intregally suppressed 1911 possible?
Ah the Army, doing a pistol trial to adopt a pistol intended for the people who have no intention or expectation of actually using it.
Nice little 1911
Not a forgotten weapon at all, but how do you feel about John Garand's personal M1 being auctioned there at Rock Island?
Joshua Graham wants his gun back.
So basically it's just a Colt Combat Commander but much more expensive.
I have a question. When was the National Match ratings system introduced?
Years ago there were only a few places that could produce National Match or Match grade parts now it seems everybody puts that on their parts and rifles.
The only official National Match parts were those made to the specifications and drawings laid out by the Springfield Armory (and later, the Rock Island Armory) for the pistols and rifles that they modified for use in marksmanship competition, such as the annual National Matches held at Camp Perry. Overrun parts were sometimes made available to NRA members via the Director of Civilian Marksmanship. The Army also once offered a limited number of modified National Match firearms each year for purchase via the DCM.
Thank you. I knew that in the early days getting certified National Match parts was not easy. Today it seems like every manufacturer is selling their weapons or parts as match grade. Maybe it is easier to meet those specifications with todays manufacturing processes.
Basically, if the part isn't marked with the appropriate NM-prefix drawing number, it isn't a true National Match part. That said, there is nothing stopping anyone from using those numbers or names on parts. Basically, you just need to pay attention to what parts are actually being used by the shooters winning matches. The top gunsmiths for the particular shooting sport are not necessarily those with the biggest advertising budget or the most press coverage.
Where is the "lightning shining in the darkness" model?
Legendary Ending.. Thank you GunJesus, very cool
Wasn't the Walther P38 the gun that James Bond carried and M kept trying to tell him was crap?
No. Bond carried a Beretta in .25 ACP. Then it jammed on him and M insisted he adopt a new firearm which was the Walther PPK. In later books he carried a Browning Hi-Power with a Smith and Wesson Magnum (I believe a Model 57) for back up.
In 1 or 2 of the early John Gardner follow-on novels, he had a Redhawk .44 Mag in a special compartment in his Saab, for use against vehicles, etc. Made sense to me.
You are correct. My mistake. I found the scene I was thinking about. It's about 12 minutes into Dr. No (1962). They take his Beretta away and give him the Walther PPK.
What happened to the last bits ?
The double shots from the Smith and Wesson was a feature not a flaw....ha!
So that's the pistol all the General's fought off the bad guy's with so they could wear a Combat Action Badge.
Do I have to summit a FOIA request to view the memos from the ordnance department? If not where and how can I view them?
There is a book dedicated to just the General Officer pistols. It might save you time and money over FOIA.
The is an American version of those SMLE mods then. We have all the high quality guns left over from WW2 , can we make them into something we need today.
Left hand builds??
So a realy good match gun to someone who only would use it as a service pistol if things have gone terible bad.
Frankly, im surprised they haven't sued each other yet.
1911s are so cool...
It's a funny thing, I doubt many, if any, of those pistols are ever fired in anger. Why not just go with the shiniest?
Why would there need to be trials for guns that would never be fired?
Let me come visit Ian I’m from Kewanee
Does this gun have a ramped barrel?
No, aftermarket ramped barrels did not become popular until the 1980s. While Jim Clark Sr. had originated the idea decades earlier for his .38 Special wadcutter Bullseye conversions of .38 Super pistols, it became a must-have feature for custom IPSC pistols when hot-loaded .38 Super ammunition became popular in that sport. It helped prevent the case web from blowing out from the high pressure.
I believe the first commercial M1911-type pistol to feature a ramped barrel as a standard feature was the Para-Ordnance P14.45 around 1990-91.
How the hell did they turn a semi auto model 39 into burst fire?
there is no beating an m1911 in a reliability contest
Is it still a. 45?
It's kinda weird that both companies are named rock island but neither of them are in rock island
I love M1911s
If you were in charge of millions of dollars worth of equipment. Wouldn't you want a pimped out pistol to show how important you are
10,000$ is a lot of cake for a 1911
Rank has its privile...
I will never understand why Colt didn't simply submit a Commander to the competition.
Colt submitted a Combat Commander in 9x19mm.
I was just enjoying that, then.... boom, end of vid 😞
Using an inflation calculator, the original price of $147 in 1979 is equal to $530.73 today.
Not to bad tbh.
Hunter Smith especially for anything related to a 1911 lol
Are P38/P1 typically that unreliable?
It might have been the poor quality 9mm M1 Ball ammunition. The ammunition was blamed for a lot of the failures in the early XM9 testing. 9mm M1 Ball was ultimately replaced by M882 Ball ammunition.
If i may ask, where is the rock island armoury located?
The US Army Rock Island Arsenal is on the Mississipi River between Moline, Illinois and Davenport, Iowa. It is still an active military base. You can get a vistors' pass for access to visit the museum and other historic sites there.
@@danielwatters1203 thank your for the information!
should i ask how you got a unissued sidearm?
les eber well I mean it’s not his lol. But I’m sure they release at least sidearms after a while.
The Generals who received the M15 had the option of buying them, and nearly all of them did so. The few that were turned back in upon retirement were typically reissued. However, not everyone bothered to engrave the grip plate.
i just had a thought. What rifle/side arm combo would forgotten weapons choose for the zombie apocalypse?
Very abrupt ending.
Sold them guns they already owned
Nek Minute
Hi
I just keep thinking "beavertail"...