The Historical David: The Real Life of an Invented Hero
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- čas přidán 11. 01. 2014
- Presentation by Prof. Joel Baden of Yale Divinity School from his recent book, at Trinity Church, Boston.
January 12, 2014
Part of Trinity's "A Year of the Bible" Christian Formation series.
This guy makes my faith in Christ strong , thank you mr.expert
Fascinating lecture. I never heard it's like.
He put a unique spin on it.
I enjoyed this presentation immensely. Thank you.
Historians and many theologians said there needed to be another written source outside of the Bible dating back to the period of King David before King David would be considered anything more than myth.
It turns out The Tel Dan Stele was discovered in 1993 in Tel-Dan by Gila Cook, a member of an archaeological team led by Avraham Biran. Its pieces were used to construct an ancient stone wall that survived into modern times. The stele contains several lines of Aramaic, closely related to Biblical Hebrew, and historically a common language among Jews. The surviving inscription details that an individual killed Jehoram of Israel, the son of Ahab and king of the house of David. These writings corroborate passages from the Hebrew Bible, as the Second Book of Kings mentions that Jehoram is the son of an Israelite king, Ahab, by his Phoenician wife, Jezebel. Applying a Biblical viewpoint to the inscription, the likely candidate for having erected the stele is Hazael, king of Aram-Damascus (whose language would have thus been Aramaic) who is mentioned in the Second Book of Kings as having conquered the Land of Israel, though he was unable to take Jerusalem. The stele is currently on display at the Israel Museum, and is known as KAI 310.
The Tel Dan Stele is a fragmentary stele containing a Canaanite inscription which dates to the 9th century BCE. It is notable for possibly being the most significant and perhaps the only extra-biblical archaeological reference to the house of David. 90 percent of archaeologists agree now that David existed
Baden is not saying david did not exist but the account in the bible is a spun version of somewhat historical events from which we can decipher what really occurred and give us a perhaps more accurate depiction of who david really was
Thank you for sharing this with the public. ❤
Absolutely brilliant!!
Excellent talk. I like Dr. Joel Baden. He is to the Old Testament as what Dr. Bart Ehrman is to the New Testament. Great scholars who open the eyes of many people.
Bart Ehrman is only a specialist in manuscript he’s not good for anything else. Thats his specialty. His arguments don’t hold up the scrutiny and are actually made by liberal lutheran German theologians before him. He just popularized them
Few do that.
This is his opinion not facts
Bart’s popular books are very different from his scholarly works. You paid Baden no compliment.
Gets pretty quiet when he talks about " unspinning the bible".
Lol I noticed that too. I wonder if they get these guest speakers thinking they will have interesting topics, then when they start describing the Bible for what it is, they immediately think “why did we get this guy down here?” 😂
@@billyjones2767 Nah they're Episcopals. It's not like he was talking to a bunch of evangelicals.
Yesterday watched someone defending Muhammed's behaviour by comparing it with Moses, that he murdered people and had sex slaves as well, but still was chosen to be a great prophet and leader by God....obviously these stories can be incredibly dangerous and create horrific role models if believed in....Though I did have a dream once (of a natural disaster) and God was saying "Pain and distress are necessary for the development of consciousness"...but it would be nice if we weren't being encouraged in some of these texts to be psychopaths.
Moses murdered one guy who was beating a fellow Jew. How does that compare to Muhamad? Where do you get that Moses had sex slaves?
@@bryansmith2649 It was in another lecture on CZcams, sorry, I ought to have written down all the references but I was painting at the time.
@@traceyolsen308 This shows two replies. But only see one. why?
@traceyolsen308 Moses is a fictional characters who never existed he based on Sargon of Akkad. Muhammad was not a prophet his visions of the Angel Gabriel a fictional characters never existed is a evil lies 🤥 and the Angel Gabriel never told people's that Muhammad was a prophet and no people's never witness Muhammad talking to this Angel Gabriel all this in Muhammad head.
This has been the case all through history humans made up theses imaginary beens and superstitious claims that never happened later progess into pagan religions all religions are pagan written by anonymous not some imaginary beens. Hearing voices in your head is not evidence for imaginary beens and their pagan religions book of fiction writing by anonymous authors. I say beens sarcastically instead of beings.
Who did Prophet Mohammed "murder"??
You searched and found people were murdered by him??
AND you people wants your today's cultures and values to be role model for other people's, ESPECIALLY people that lived almost 2000 years ago?? UNBELIEVABLE!!!
This guy is brilliant
he rejects the inspiration of all scripture and you call him brilliant????.....he does nothing but cast doubt on all scripture and the bible as an inspired book
@@imusmoedegrasse ....to you he is brilliant --- to me he is ignorant ---the devil could be said to be brilliant but consider his future
@@imusmoedegrasse Because I know my bible from 47 years of study, I have the guidance of the Holy Spirit and I have a degree in theology, and belong to a church consisting of 25 million people which has produced world class scholars . Baden is throwing out the whole bible as an inspired book that clearly shows the way of salvation.....to follow him you have to be ignorant of God.
@@imusmoedegrasse .............Let me clear up your confusion---- you will one day stand before God in the Judgement and you will be annihilated because you chose to be an unbeliever in Christ and the bible. Christianity is the only religion that offers salvation via atonement and Grace. This is what the devil wants you to beleive and you are believing it...and by the way there is no place as hell only a hell fire that annihilates the rejectors of grace, so a life without faith is a life without hope or a future - and you want to convince me of your wisdom...you will die the second death which is the death for eternity.. as you say, the bible can be interpreted many ways - but there is only one way to find its truth and without being born again you cannot see it, that is why Bader has his view , he is not converted as you may not be...but I will see at your funeral and then at the judgement where there will be no hope but Chrsitians who will live for eternity in Bliss...your choice...I suggest you read your bible with prayer and find Christ as billions have...all the best to you
@@imusmoedegrasse ........Don't forget Christ did not go to school, and then we have 12 fishermen who knew more about the bible and spiritual history and life then the Pharisees who went to Harvard...as I once read - your knowledge ascends high but it lands nowhere ...Bader and like Professors make a living destroying the bible but they are all wrong - as I said - intellectualism is the the realm where the ignorant can feel like gods.
Most scholars consider even 1 Samuel as Deuteronomist, and written possibly as late as 540 BCE. But they agree that 1 Chronicles was written hundreds of years after 1 Samuel.
The books from Joshua to second Kings were probably getting roughly their final form during the babylonian exile by what's called "the deuteronomist historian/historians", some anonymous guy or group of guys during the 6th century BC. But the various stories in all these books are probably much older, and some might very well be from some near contemporary of David. Also, 1 Samuel isn't based on a single source, it's evidently more than one source because the text sometimes presents different versions of the same story with contradicting details (just as so often happens in genesis aswell).
@@stoferb876 Agreed. Calling it Deuteronomist doesn’t mean it is from a single source, but it would limit how different those sources were.
“The stories are much older…” or the stories have developed over time. The Flood story has changed a lot from other cultures
The title of the video was so intriguing, I had to watch it.
Its a brave church {or incredibly naive) that puts scholarly historians in front of their faithful flock. The tradition and the history are entirely different things. If you're versed in the history, what this guy is saying is pretty stock, its clear from the questions that his audience aren't.
why would a church bring a guy that will change everything from lies to truth im glad but i dont think they knew who or whst this guy is.....lol
@@jesselong8971 Not every church has a strict literalist view of the Bible. And this guy studies the Bible for a living.
In Europe this is totally normal, and it's also totally in line with how all respectable institutions teach theology students. Just like you can know that none of your ancestors arrived in the US before the 19th century and still teach your children how 'our ancestors' supposedly experienced certain events that are now celebrated and 'remembered' with Thanksgiving, you don't need to close your eyes to historical truth in order to accept the Bible. Believing that everything in there needs to be literally true is making a category error. 19th century scientists had to learn this when they discovered the real age of the Earth and how evolution works, and they did learn their lesson. They shouldn't have been surprised, because it had been known for millennia that the Bible makes incorrect assumptions about cosmology; that the Earth is actually a globe. It is also obvious that the Bible is a collection of books of various genres. Sorry if I am too direct, but I guess everybody can see that reading scientific facts into an erotic love song from the Song of Songs would be just stupid. Why shouldn't other text genres in the Bible be similarly limited with respect to what they actually want to say as opposed to what is taken for granted? Biblical laws are another example where it gets a bit more tricky. A law may be just in its historical context if its purpose is to prevent slave owners from killing their slaves -- even if it takes slave ownership for granted.
Trinity Church Boston seems to be Episcopal, which I gather is very European. This is probably where most Anglicans from Commonwealth states will likely feel most at home in the US. So I guess it's not as brave as it must appear to most Americans.
@@jesselong8971 LOL please
Hi there
makes me think that the old testament is a collection of stories
David is made the main character of all those collected stories
stories collected from other ethnics and people groups, related to the 12 tribes of israel and geographic area
like a psudeo-david
The stories are mostly Canaanite and Babylonian retold for a new group. It was a common way of telling stories in a new narrative. Whenever a group of people moved, they adopted the local stories for their own.
Exactly. A collection of stories.
Fantastic talk. Great questions and answered ... sensitively?
I'm currently deconstructing my faith. I got a lot out of this presentation. Thank you.
Thanks for always taking us back to the time of the exact event
💃 good lecture
29:50 Meaning of the text everywhere comes not from history aka not the from the events that took place but from story - the way those events are understood and translated for the community that hears it.
30:03 History is simply something that happened, Story is meaning we make of it.
30:15 As a j or old testament scholar, the way that we're told to deal with the passover right, the exodus from egypt didn't happen but you have feed your children lies.
His remarks are witty and thoughtful, but man the audience is just cracking up the whole time.
I hear you on that. Sounds like he's addressing little kids.
Do you have any documentation of David ?
His tomb ?
Wonderful. All believers in any religion should listen. For myself, fliundering in the waters of deconstructing my Evangelical faith it is a bit of a life raft. I also recommend Francesca Stavravakapolis for the OT, and Bart Ehrman for the NT. Mythvision for both for more great interviews with scholars
Tangent here but the Arab armies were actually not bigger than Israel's. It was nominally 265k vs. 465k soldiers but the Arab coalition only deployed 215k. So in the battle against "five armies", the "five armies" actually deployed 50k fewer soldiers.
How did they date the 3 texts abt David
to the 10th c, 6th c and 400bc ?
There are hundreds of variant version s of the Christian bibles none match each other or the original Koine greek new testament or the original hebrew Scripture.
You're ignorance is overwhelming!
@@davidjanbaz7728 kindly verify my post.
Quick to hurl insults proves my point typical of brainwashed church zelots
Find 1 John 5:7-8( trinity) ,7:53, 8:10 and Mark 16:9-20 in earliest koine greek new testament.
Its not there...
Find " Easter"( only in KJV).
Hundreds of insertions modifications made.
Isaiah 7:14 " virgin: in future tense modification versus Hebrew " young woman " in present tense.
Ok have fun..
David will still best Golat
Quite recent the Moabite stone has been found to have read Bet Dwd. House of David. So, not so much an “ invented hero” as a historic person.
Yes! “Taking the Bible seriously but not literally” and “This never happened and this is why it’s true”
Lol. 😂
_The poet is a liar who always speaks the truth._
The old testament is a fiction that reveals the truth.
@@l3eatalphal3eatalphaThis is a very Professor Jordan Peterson position.
Nice work! Except you missed the part where David DID NOT kill one of God's annointed - and so - while he was armed only with a sword he was 'relieving himself' with... and THEN proceeded to rail against one of his own who questioned his actions at the time - an event which occurred while David was running for his life from our 'leaky friend' - "Lefty".
Perhaps if the leaders of the time had followed the dogma of Davey - the would not have needlessly murdered God's 'other' annointed as 1 Corinthians 2:8 clearly points out was a blatant mistake.
The whole book is misinterpreted and is in the process of being cause of a long raging war that doesn't need to be.
IF anyone is interested, I can use that book to stop this war and would like the opportunity to do just that.
God is all but 'powerless' (respectfully) for the people that wield this 'paper sword' should use it for 'justice' in society and NOT to destroy each other with. IF the wages of sin are 'death' - then let God Himself 'number the days' of those who go against His law, het off each others backs, and LOVE each other - as the slain messiah Jesus the Christ had advised.
Shalom.
So what about we who do not nationally or ethnically look to David to “justify us”?
Interesting talk, but I'd prefer that there were more mear on the bone as the density of information was fairly low. My sense is that this was his Christian-friendly edit - and that he limited the more damning elements which would have come out in another setting.
Good point! However, give this man and the church that presented him credit, for a major step forward in the world of reality.
Prof Baden make a lot of sense. A pinch of Occam's razor with a copious sprinkling of common sense gets one close to the truth
OMG! Listening to all the coughing, hacking and wheezing in the background, I'm interested to know how many of the attendants were deathly sick after attending this lecture.
The good old days when we went places and didn't give a damn about spreading diseases. Pop some cough syrup, take a fever reliever, go to church or work or the store. And we were fine with deaths from flu.
Churches in my area were the first cases of norovirus every year, quickly spreading to nursing homes. @Oniweeki
They all died from a divine plague visited upon them for attending an atheistic lecture.
@@Auriflamme
COVID 19..
2:20 Lecture begins
37:00 Also, David's erea was during the dark age following the Bronze Age Collapse. So, I wouldn't expect to find writte records from otehr coutries about David.
What this fellow is saying that these are myths devised by the scribes to serve some purpose they may have, a spin. If their audience like this and that, they changed the spin. Here is a story which has been retold again, and it changed over time. This is exactly what Muslims claim about OT, and NT may be about Jesus but may have nothing to do with him, just someone with that name.
These texts are part of the Jewish folklore. They do not have any religious significance.
i reading his book about david... is so interesting and awsome.
The story of David and Jonathan is retold, taken from the Sumero-Babylonian king, Gilgamesh and his Enkidu.
Huh? The two stories have nothing in common.
@@amaxamon Yeah I must have missed the passage where Jonathan was born as a half-animal person, had sex with a prostitute to become civilized, and then traveled the world fighting mythological creatures
👏🙂
9:55 "They knew no more about David than you or me"
Uhh did he just make that up? Because 1 Chronicles 29 lists THREE sources for David's life, not one.
There's probably other sources too
Do we have those sources? Where can we read them?
@@VulcanLogic But why would they just list sources that weren’t real? That doesn’t make sense
@@gianni206 Chronicles itself isn't even a primary source. This is like Paul's claim that 500 saw Jesus. We don't have those 500 claims. We just have Paul's. One claim.
its amazing how the bible moves nonbelievers the way it does,they discuss it more than pastors,and study it more than believers,Gods word is powerful He driving them to read it.
@@VulcanLogic They actually did have the claims of the 500 witnesses, just as they had the means, motive, and opportunity to retrieve them.
In that same vein, the original audience of the Old Testament also had the means, motive, and opportunity to check the sources written for these books
But isn't this guy religious himself?
Dr Baden: Davi-
Woman in the back: ACK ACK ACK ACK
As A Christian I wish I learned what he's talking about decades ago. The problem is not reading and interpreting the Bible on your own, and letting a pastor do it. Every body spins, The corporation forces their spin on the pastor(he complies to keep his job) spins it to you. The Bible was taught to me to be the inerrant word of god. this spins all the writers to be like one and and that is simply not true. There are writers that embellish, exaggerate, and use metaphoric phrases etc.. their own recollections and interpretations of events and stories, So be of a critical understanding, remember it's an honored book but it was written by men doing their best to describe deity and the morality of men. Men trying to add excitement or importance to an event but not necessarily historical truth( ei.) Mat.27:52-54. The author's spin. (Just to make my point) God bless
@@jesselong8971 Actually, the whole book is full of truth. You just don't don't understand the language.
So, I'll give some clues. Jesus being born in a manger is fact and born of a virgin. How? Easy. A manger is a beehive. Look at the constellation Praesepe. It's called the manger / beehive constellation. Queen bees are referred to as Virgin queens. These queens give birth on the winter and summer solstice, which is also when cattle and deer typically give birth. Jesus translates to mean Earth Horse or Earth Pig / Hippopotamus. Hippopotamus translates into Water Horse. The Pegasus constellation, otherwise called Hippos is located alongside Praesepe during the winter and summer solstice.
Unless you studied etymology and astronomy, a normal person or bad scholar would not understand what is written.
@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou Yep
Amen
@@gkjeane2180💯😊
When people literally sound like they brought their barking DOG to a quiet talk, but it’s just a person COUGHING… !!
JUST REMOVE YOURSELF, just like we’d ask, take your barking dog OUTSIDE!
Please, LEAVE THE ROOM!
"the Bible's just a bunch of spin."
Okie dokie.
❤😊
Tolstoy’s What Men Live By belongs in a Bible.
What about prayers David writes in the book of Psalms?
shelholl4moloweeatwh IIRC most are just *attributed* to David
the speaker says David is not very poetic, but he is....
janina873
the Psalms were lifted from the Psalms of ancient Egypt. Nearly word for word.
What evidence is there that they were written by David?
Attrubution yo important figures of the past is a common feature un many literary traditions. The psalms were most likely not composed by David, but by priests, female musicians (music was traditionally a feminine craft), poets, etc. Others were reworkings from past works (Psalm 29 was probably a psalm about Baal). So authorship is multiple and varied, and therein you find the wealth, in polyphony, not monologue.
Keep the commandments and follow Yeshua Jesus. Yeshua commanded us to keep the Torah/Commandments/Law of Moses. Matthew 5:17...
Seek this out. Sin is Lawlessness. Sin is the transgression of God's Law, which is the Law of Moses. Jesus kept the Law, He didn't abolish it. John affirms that we need to keep the commandments in his epistles, especially 1 John. Read it for yourself. Much love to you all :).
This guy is funny!! Hello Johathan Knew David was going to be King!!!!!
there all hahahahahahaha i dont get it
Its all about the Tribe Of Benjamin, they were given Kingship, Saul was the rightful King, then he was bestrayed,,,,,the rest is history.
The tribe of Benjamin interesting. However, more interesting if true would be that this is the tribe that Mary Magdalene was from the woman who married Jesus and bore his kids.
Conquering The House of David doesn't necessarily point to King David. It could have been any, probably wealthy, family whose patriarch was named David. It still is not conclusive evidence.
there is only one king David in the bible all references are to him..acts 4. 12
@@DavidKing-qd3sp No pagan isreal empire never existed Abraham moses Joshua David Solomon Jesus all the old testament patriarch are fictional characters who never existed and never wrote the old testament. Written by anonymous authors racist jewish scribes wrote these evil lies and racist literature.
Jesus his disciples Matthew mark luke John Peter paul and the rest of then all fictional characters who never existed and they never wrote the new testament.
Pagan zionist bible stories in the old and new testament are not true are evil lies. No pagan jewish imaginary been yahweh the name of a sumerian pagan god never existed. Evil genocidal racist maniac and supertious claims that never happened racist jewish scribes wrote these evil lies and racist literature not European pagan zionist bible is a book of racist zionist literature and zionist nationalism if any white European would have written that book it would have been banned.Jews are middle eastern Asian they can get away with it always said that the ethics races are the most racists.
Acts is bogus..bs😅
I am mystified why anyone would want to read old writings by people we do not know about myths and legions
Learning about myths and legends is interesting. The problem is when people take it literally.
Can you imagine if people still genuinely believed that Zeus caused thunderstorms??
You won't find anything there. No Biblical places are in that part of the world.
Alexander the Great, an Israelite, changed the Aeria to Egypt. Then in the 4th century AD, a Christian city was founded at a small ruined fort in the "syrian" desert. It is a sacerdotal fortified city of peace, a jerusalem. A wave of name changes ensued throughout the east. Biblical place names everywhere.
When Isaiah was standing in the first place, he prophesied about another place where fences werent necessary. Only two places in the world match the detailed Biblical description. They aren't in Asia, which is a place of exile.
Interesting, but I prefer facts to myths.
³
16:01 muhammad caravan raids now make sense.
He never tells us from where he received his information from, did he? Kinda sounds like a "spin" to me. We all have bias but he needs to sell his book in a church, I mean look at that hairpiece.
He has a PhD from Harvard and a B.A from Yale... So probably from their, or peer reviewed scholarly sources. I'm sure his book has plenty of footnotes with reference to all manner of papers and book.
Anyways, have a nice day
DAVID IN✡️HEBREW MEANS💘 "BELOVED"!
I love these lectures but the politics detract so much from what's being presented.
there is truth then there is religion
The speaker justified spinning religious texts to suit the historical times. cultural milieu and religious, political, economic etc agenda of the reader . This argument nullifies these texts as religious texts while relegating their importance to nuggets of history hidden in the slop of self interest.These were meant to glorify the raison d'etre of the various authors who used these texts to gain an audience and support. This speaker has confirmed that these texts are the origin of the murderous behavior of those who hold them as sacred script..
LOL 😆
I want to join out this guy is very smart but he silo putting his own spin on it. Maybe it really happened that way, maybe it didn't.
Jesus says he sits on the throne of David. So if you seek to undo David you drop the dominoes all the way to the revelation of Jesus. Where the son of god says he sits on David's throne.
The next thing the church will deny the Son and say he is a metaphor.
Hogwash intellectualism. This kid has never suffered grief, joy, or sorrow, or hope. He has never felt the words of David. He has only read them. He has missed the entire point of existence.
I assure you he who sits in the heavens laughs - the intellectual thinks he has it figured out.
Why do you believe there is someone sitting in heaven?
@@Glasstable2011 why do you fail to believe the Son of God has spoken?
"All who hear Truth hear my voice."
@@AaronGlenn88 do you think it’s possible for someone to think they are hearing God and be mistaken?
@@Glasstable2011
To finish what I shared earlier
"All who hear Truth hear my voice " -jesus
To which Pontius Pilate responded, as you have also responded...as we all once have ..
"What is truth?"
Child, Do you not yet perceive?
What do these words speak to you spirit? Read them out loud.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
@@AaronGlenn88 those are words I’ve read before many times. Reading them is not enough to believe they are true. Why do you believe they are true?
laughing fools are they even listening
He claims that there is a difference between a historical david and a legendary david, I don't know why he thinks there is a difference : all we know about him is from the Bible, even his flaws. It's not as if we had other sources revealing different facts about him than the ones from the Bible. It's not like Jesus where his real teachings differ from the beliefs elaborated after his death by the fathers of the church.
David Alroy.. Is the david that basically took over king david
David was not invented, he was misinterpreted.
Read the book ‘Solomon, Pharaoh of Egypt’.
R
reilgion is evil
Sorry, Jesse
I beg to disagree. Religion is just a tool. A hammer that can be used to build or kill. WE choose to follow "Love one another even as I have loved you" or "I come not to bring peace, but, a sword". That book is so malleable it can be used to justify every human impulse; good or evil.
It's all checkerboard freemasonry duality , that's all that is allowed to exist or be remembered in society
The archeological tel Dan Steele was found dating back 600 years BC stating ‘King’ ‘House of David’ - a written historical source outside the Bible. there is more archeological evidence supporting the biblical narrative all the time. Only one percent so far has been unearthed -
It also boils down to faith - Jesus lineage goes back to David - if you reject that because of a ‘theologian’ then you have to reject everything else.
If it’s not true, you should not be in that religion. I have no idea how a he SCHOLAR who KNOWS the stories are fake can actually stand there and say that the fact that the stories aren’t true doesn’t mean you should stop believing is just mind blowing. It ABSOLUTELY means you should stop believing. Wtf are you doing if it’s all fake? Why does anyone need lies to live a good life? He is absolutely right that the stories are bs but to go on believing despite them being fictional makes you part of a delusional cult.
Churches like this are for people who are unable to deprogram all at once.
What you've written is evidence that the hardline fundamentalist inerrancy doctrine has made de minds of non-believers as well. It's not as simple as "true" or "false", the Bible was never meant to convey undisputable facts, but a deeper message about God and his interactions with humanity. This kind of reasoning won't do any good, even our current science is incomplete and subject to mistakes and will probably be bettered in the future. So throw everything away because it isn't perfect?
@ and what you’ve written is evidence of delusion. To say that it “was never meant to convey indisputable facts is not true. Where do you think we even get the idea that these books are inerrant? It’s from the religions’ claims themselves. And you talk about it being meant to convey “a deeper message about god and his interactions with humanity.” Which is utter nonsense. Every religion claims that (once they’ve been disproven by science) it’s all about creating a “deep”relationship with god through allegories or some such nonsense. If they ALL claim this then it’s just deism. And saying it’s a “message about god and his interactions with humanity.” Just baffles me because the science already shows this interactions to be false. We absolutely know there was never a worldwide flood. We know Adam and Eve did not exist as presented by the Bible. If they didn’t exist then why does hell and death exist? And The exodus never happened. In what measurable way did this god interact with humanity?
My type of reasoning does A LOT of good because it’s how we counteract the evils of belief in religious dogma. For example, the only reasons people are against abortion or gay marriage or teaching evolution are religious. Even slavery and racism were religious concepts until secularism fought them. In reality, believing false things won’t do any more good than not believing them. Please do explain how believing is better than not believing. What is something a person who has a false relationship with some assumed god can get that an atheist can’t.
I don't want to be next in line after these preachers on judgement day
Why not?
@@davidpolk6373 I have enough to answer for by myself. I don't need any more flack caused by these preachers
@@charlesphillips5723 Don't worry you won't be Either will they
@@charlesphillips5723 There will be no "judgement day" even if Christianity is true
Judgement Day is a Zoroastrian concept that worked its way into Judaism when the Persian Empire defeated the Babylonians and inherited the captive Jews.
Before that moment in time "heaven and hell" did not exist, but was introduced into the later text under the influence of the then State relgion Zoroastriamism.
Unlike Judaism, that only took a handful of concepts for Zoroastriamism, Christianity literally pillaged and plundered the Zoroastrian faith for ideas to create their own version of god.
I wish people would read more, and sound less like scared children, afraid of the big sky daddy that's going to murder them, if they don't love him back.
poor galiath blind half dead and led to his slaughter by david a small guy with a weapon the story is totally backwards
It's Goliath. And, Goliath isn't a person. The entire story is the calculation and measurements for a pyramid in Egypt known as the headless pyramid. Of course, you probably wouldn't know that since you don't know how etymology and prophecy studies work.
Don't worry though. The majority of the world has lost the ability to translate the ancient language of the stars. See, the ancients would assign star constellations pictures, such as Orion having a belt, even though it's a group of stars.
Goliath happens to be one of the ancient constellations along with David, whose measurements were used in the making of the previous mentioned pyramid.
@@gkjeane2180 "citation needed"
@@erimgard3128 The story of Goliath revolves around the mentioned calculations. He was 6 Cubits Tall, and wore 600 shekels of armor. The formula for force is F = MA, with gravity being 10 Newtons. Mass = 600 shekels. Acceleration = distance squared X gravity = 36 or 6 squared X 10 = 360. 600 X 360 = 216000 joules of work. 216000 joules = 1 hour of work for a 60 watt bulb. 1 hour is the calculation for the destruction of Babylon. 6 Cubits is the height of the headless pyramid in Egypt. 6 cubits is also the radius from the center to each side of that pyramid.
@@gkjeane2180 He wasn't 6 cubits tall. The earliest versions say 4 cubits. The story was exaggerated much later for dramatic effect.
And your calculation is complete nonsense. Not to mention, why in the world would Jewish scribes use a giant's height as a secret formula to calculate a pyramid that was built like 1500 years earlier. None of that makes any sense whatsoever.
Like...you HAVE to be trolling with all that stupid bullshit, right?
It is really amazing how this "Harvard scholar" with a lot of credentials can't answer very simple questions and get lost in semantics. My conclusion? Bible is a very incoherent story, just a few pasajes are history and most of the time (on this very expert words) it just contradicts itself too many times. So how this "book" is considered sacred, real and truth.
What are the best examples of contradictions?
Think of it as a detective would solve a crime. If you discount the gospels as myth and move on to other evidence from non-biblical sources like, Flavius Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny, Thallus, Lucian, celsus. They all have excellent accounts of Jesus, but it takes homework to find it. Still not convinced, archaeologists have found evidence of the Pool of Siloam, [ Jesus healed the blind man] and many other findings. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain a good portion of the Old Testament, which have a ton of prophetic evidence about Jesus. I could go on and on, but never blame your unbelief on a lack of evidence. One last point, people will believe everything about Alexander the Great but question the validity of the Bible. Which one has more evidence?
@@glowheat4469 Alexander doesn't claim to be God, that's the main difference
Ahhh... classic rookie error. Attempting to re-fashion the bible through mans eyes.
So how do you, something other than human?
Let me guess. We're supposed to read the Bible through God's eyes? Through the eyes of "faith"? With our hearts? Or maybe, just maybe, we're not supposed to read it at all, but, rather, just take your word for what it says because everyone that doesn't agree with you is a "mistaken rookie". Arrogant much? Classic!
@@dennisbast743 settle petal. This chap wouldn’t have dedicated his entire life to the academic study of this book if there wasn’t something significant about it. But trying to read it as you would a modern day page turner is a typically ‘human’ trait and frankly a ‘rookie’ mistake. For a clever guy, he has made a botch of his analysis of Genesis as well. And the mistake is making conclusions on reductive generalisations. AND I might add I am addressing this issue from a secular rather than blind-faith based perspective.
One needs to have a methodology of approaching the hermeneutics of any text, even more so this , probably the most significant book (yes even secularly so).
One doesn’t have to be of the faith so to speak to have an understanding of the stories which are in the context of a singular narrative of the ongoing relationship between an almighty creator and his creation. And, it invariably involves utterly flawed characters such as David.
Discard the bible if you must either as an article of faith or as secular fairy tale, but don’t seek to understand it on one hand, and set such feeble parameters for same on the other.
Jesus, the Son of the Living God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
You worship ceasar, and serve him and the empire. Critical thinking is not your thing
The Holey Babble clearly states Satan is the ruler of this world, even though for the LORD of LORDs to be that, then Satan can only do what he is alowed to do. Birth defects, anyone? Odd God.
Why waste your time talking about a history which is not part your own history?
By that logic nobody from a western country should study Asian or African history, right? No historian from Egypt should study the Aztecs? Or no historian from Japan should study the American war of independence?
Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.
Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Tell me this. Why did this guy get allowed to preach to this church? Did he not just teach the church to change the words in the Bible to suit their own method of thinking? Do they not get that this is false teaching?
This is looking at the bible scholarly in breaking down the story of David and analyzing what the text says, and not a religious sermon
The Bible is a collection of books, letters and stories from a long stretch of time. Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32 was a warning regarding Mosaic law given to the Israelites. Proverbs is a collection of wise sayings of the time, with additions by Solomon who was the son of David who the speaker is talking about, along with "The Words of Agur", and "The Words of King Lemuel of Massa". So here we are, you have taken every book, letter and story in the Bible, grouped them together and used verses out of context to defend the literalism of every word as divinely inspired. This is the danger of literalism and fundamentalism, it attempts to shut down debate and stifles the growth and knowledge that comes from that debate.
Gabe Moore The professor is teaching false doctrine. It doesn't matter if you believe in literalism if you don't know how to read correctly. The guy teaches that man was created on the same day as woman when man was made on the 5th and wasn't placed in the garden until the 6th. King David was exactly how the Bible described because was one of the men that fulfilled the role of the 8th king of Revelation 17.
gkjeane if you read genesis, there are two different accounts of the creation story! One by a priestly source and the other by the j-source!
Elaine Moore Yes, let us read Genesis. Read every single verse with a changing of the day. Notice how it says and the evening first and then morning. Evening doesn't come before morning unless they are referring to the dawn of a new day. In other words the first chapter only discussed the first 5 days and ended at the dawn of the 6th. Genesis 2 starts from day 6, so you are wrong to say they are 2 stories. Chapter 2 literally starts the dawn of the 6th day, so it is a continuation.
You clearly are jealous of David.
All this teaching is based on outdated archaeology. Check the latest archaeology from the last 30 years done in Israel by the descendants of the ancient tribe of Judah from whom King David and King Messiah Yeshua have also descended and you'll come to a completely opposite conclusion to this "scholar".
Peer reviewed sources please!!! Actually curious!!
Sources? Let’s see your evidence.
@@mglenn7092 The evidence is there in the museums of Israel, you'll have to go visit, if you want the truth. Remember Israel has returned to the land just as the prophets of Israel (in whose lineage King David also comes) have prophesied.
@@rundaniel8221 been there suspect relics are not real scholarly evidence. It is entertainment for tourist. The last 30 years has actually pushed the academic community farther away from the historical existence of King David.
some say he is brilliant others say he is a fool....it all depends on you
Incredibly superficial rendering of the biblical text and the story about David. Skewed
Learns numerous ancient languages, goes to most elite universities on earth for bachelor's, master's and doctorate. Becomes tenured professor at Yale. Classic lazy superficial approach Joel Baden did here.
Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, King Solomon, King David & Jesus Are Black People. The Bible Is Our Book!
The black sheep of the house of Israel . NEVER HEARD OF EM. Israel is supposed b a light to the world. I think yall missed that one.
I find it distressing when the descendants of victims of slavery turncoat and adopt the false religion of their ancestors' owners. In doing so, they sell their forebearers down the river.
The term "Uncle Tom", an Americanism I've learnt, comes to mind
Have the read their stories? I certainly don't want to be identified with these sociopaths.
“Black people” I don’t identify with any race of people because that isn’t something we decide at birth and has no impact on my personality/actions. Americans started the movement of Black to unite against oppression, you can stop now since systematically there’s no way a race can control the government like they did in the past. The Black movement is only used now to line the pocket of good old George S
Pligga, nease!
it is the Devil that destroys faith in the bible for it points us to Christ as Savior
No pagan jewish imaginary been Jesus never existed Warned peoples beware of false prophets MATTHEW 7-15. Yet falsely prophesied his return second coming of judgment day 2000 years ago CE MATTHEW 16-27 28 never happened it's evil zionist lies 🤥 pagan zionist bible stories in the old and new testament are not true are evil zionist lies racist jewish scribes wrote these evil lies and racist literature in the pagan zionist bible not European it a book of racist zionist literature and zionist nationalism if any white European would have written that book it would have been banned.
Or just legit research in various fields…not mere blind acceptance (of myths)