What cEDH Teaches Us About EDH Deckbuilding - How To Build A Stronger Commander Deck
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
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Just after I uploaded this video, Casually Competitive MTG uploaded a video about common cEDH win-cons (and how to stop them) which is very close to what I described as a video I'd like to make in the near future. I still might make that video, but it's definitely worth checking out theirs! • Common cEDH Wincons an...
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This video was super well done. The unique viewpoint you provided from more of a spectator was honestly really refreshing to hear. The way you presented the information was clear, accurate and concise and it was overall a great listen. Keep up the great work
Thank you so much! Your videos, as I'm sure you know, were such an inspiration for me both in the course of making this video and as an EDH player in general. Thanks for the content and for the support.
This is the quality content we need. Thanks for the quality for the video. I feel like a lot of creators have lost the touch they had when they were up and coming in the mtg community. You just earned a sub, so don't lose it with lower quality in the future! Thanks man!
Hey thanks man, I'll try my best not to let my standards slip! I'd be really interested to hear what kind of things or channels you think are evidence of that though, but obviously I don't expect you to put that out in public. Maybe shoot me a message on Discord or Twitter?
Man I was really impressed by this vid. Nothing fancy, low budget, and yet with the use of decent lighting, good sound, nice music in the background, and a straightforward message with some added personality, this was very enjoyable to watch. Subscribed, can't wait to see more content!
I'm really glad you enjoyed it! Hope you enjoy what I've got planned for the future :)
Also cedh decks have an average mana cost of like 2.1ish which is also what let’s them run like 29-32 lands
Best content in regards to MTG I've seen in a while. Just don't burnout, takes breaks when you can my dude!
Thank you very much :) I'll try my best not to haha
Clear concise and thoughtful. Subbed!
As a cEDH player I have to say this is a great video!
my most recent favorite card advantage combo/synergy is in my bant enchantress deck with Ephara, God of the Polis and the new card Arasta of the Endless Web :)
I come from background where competetive playstyles has been usually looked as good guidance rather than absolute facts. I like how you easily condenced everything that what should be done if your EDH needs a boost. The thing is that tutor, pricy lands and rocks are somewhat hard to find since everybody needs them to get better performance out of their deck. I usually tell my group that as long as we are having fun they should build whatever they want.
But, there is a big problem. Even if you get your hands on to these high valuable cards usually players aren't as knowledgeable when or how they should play Demonic Tutor or tap mana for Gaia's Cradle. I think the most valuable tool what we should give as a community for EDH players is to explain why they need those cards rather than what to get. I would love to see a follow-up video from you when you would explain much in detail why certain cards give you that edge over other players and what are the common situations or opening hands.
I've seen people playing Vampiric Tutors and Mystic Tutors and ended their turns. Then a random player in the group decided to teach them a life lesson by shuffling their deck or milling them so that they can't get the card they just tutored. Also I've witnessed people using mana rocks on mono black / mono green decks without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Skyshroud Claim. I usually explain that not all decks need Sol Rings, Mana Vaults or Mana Crypts. Yea, they might have +7 colorless mana at the table from the start, but how are they going to summon their Elves, Wraiths or Commanders with that? At thist point you have -4 card advantage on your first turn, since you have to wait for your next turn until you can play another land card and other players who play Land -> Crop Rotation -> Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx would have a higher card advantage since they used 2 cards to get more long term value.
My advice usually is that Magic games are very fun when you know what you do rather than play power cards when ever you get the chance. And yes, I know that if you would play for exsample Karn as your commander the Land, Sol Ring, Mana Vault or Mana Crypt start would expotentially give you the best turn you would get.
All good points! I'm not so sure what you mean when you say that I "condescend everything that what should be done", maybe you could clarify that for me a little bit?
In terms of follow-ups, I have recently posted a video about Budget cEDH card choices which goes into some depth about why those cards are good and in what situations they are good, but I'll consider a more dedicated video or series on the topic that you've mentioned. Thank you very much for your insightful and well-written comment :)
Yeah I see that a lot, I always bring a cEDH deck with me to my casual play group. not to play it but to kind of show what to do and why I put certain cards in it and when I choose to time cards to explain the importance of thinking things through. It's a great aid to explaining why running removal to cover all of your areas is important, why counter spells are super important even if they seem annoying at times and also shows why having some form of draw engine is essential for you to do what you want your deck to do even if it's a cheesy chair tribal deck, could very well use a dark tutelage to make sure you can play some more nifty chair cards for example.
Also in casual games, I generally aim for more casual orientated combo, spellslinger or value based decks as it's more my style and whenever I do something like say attack a player, I generally just explain my reasoning, like this person plays a black deck and black decks second biggest resource is life. I also hope that myself explaining things through also helps the more casual players . Not only does it help regulate salt levels I find it also help players, especially the newer ones learn the importance of threat assessment through understanding of the colour pie, why instants are so great and when it's best to use cards, say for example waiting until you have all the mana's to try and win with your convoluted combo and when you play each spell give a nudge to my fellow players that they may want to respond to the stuff I am doing.
Very very great video with amazing information. Thank you so much. I'm definitely subscribing.im a casual player but want to learn more about efficiency
I only play Cedh and this are good advices, well researched :D
Looking to make some decks more competitive. Any suggestions on where to look to get some help
@@mgrmurtag Add me on discord and Ill glad to help you Luci1st#6255
Congrats on making it past 1,000 subs! It's the 2nd biggest channel milestone imo (after 100 subs) since you're able to monetize everything now :)
Thank you very much, and yep, got that green dollar sign on as much as possible now, already looking at an estimated £1.83 in my earnings tab :P
@@Foyfluff Yeah, I don't even try to make any real money off of my channel. Ironically, one of my highest liked/dislike ratio videos under 100% is one where I basically just ask my viewers to adblock me. I make more than enough money with my real job and there's no reason that my viewers should have to sit through a 5 second ad every time they choose to watch my stuff
I'm new to cEDH and this video was great. As far as budget goes, sure the price can get scary. But there are always budget options. You can still have fun and still be competitive.
Really glad you enjoyed it! Next on the list for me (in terms of the slightly bigger, more heavily edited videos like this one) is Budget cEDH staples, so hopefully that will help address some of those concerns :)
like play shockland instead of dual cut half the price (don't run too expensive reserved list cards chain of mephistopheles and tabernacle or timetwister are not medatory to the format either
I know this is an old comment but, also it's important to note most cEDH players are perfectly chill with proxies as we are in the minority the two things we care about are as follows.
People play the most brutal and evil deck possible that wins and can interact.
Most importantly we want people to play.
So in order to meet these criteria we generally do welcome proxies. As otherwise too many people would be priced out of this amazing format and there would be barely anybody to play with which reduces, deck variety and number of possible games that can be played.
TBH I think so long as people can control themselves and not be a pub stomper it really should be a general rule for any playgroup as having people spend their money elsewhere and have fun with their lives too. But then with aforementioned pub stompers if they don't know what they are doing like they are new to the playgroup, then it's best to communicate what general power level the group operates at or what people to play with that play at that persons power level communication is always key or if it's done maliciously it's them being a douche and are probably just best to shun them until they learn the error of their ways.
So really like anything in EDH proxies really is a communication issue as opposed to a blanket slippery slope fallacy.
I really like this video. I’m a player who likes to play in competitive circles so I have tuned decks and trying to explain to new players or friends what they can do to increase the consistency of there deck. Is sometimes difficult to explain.
Can't say I'd complain if you shared the video around, especially to say, everyone you know haha
Thanks for the feedback! Really glad I could help.
Card advantage engine? Mulldrifter in Muldrotha. With Secrets of the Dead in play if you live in magical christmasland.
It's like drawing four cards at once!
Mulldrifter is one of my very favourite Magic cards, I even have a mug with the flying fish printed on it
True but this requires you to rely on muldrotha for your deck to be online so mulldrifter is fine but there's better
Very good tips, is the first time I watch your channel and this video is awesome, very good explain, concise, all the information we need, keep up the good work
Thank you very much!
I would also add to this GREAT video that everything said can apply not only wto winning the game but to "just" have a deck that wants to do stuff to do it more often. Like, you "just" want to cast that Warp World? Now you can do it more reliably. Want to have a couple chaos enchantments on the field? Boom, you can do it more often.
That's a great insight! I rarely think about commander that way, but yeah, I feel like if people want to play crazy effects then it would be really good for them to be able to get that effect off very consistently.
selvala GW (cEDH) player here. Very interesting video : )
i do play against many tier1/0 decks and i learned how to protect my self or play against Hulk/Oracle.
cards do like to use cards like: Compost // Defense Grid// Grand Abolisher // order of sacred torch // Hushbringer
Thank you very much! I'd never seen Order of the Sacred Torch until now, what a wild card.
My favorite C.A. engine is the enchantress effect, but my favorite C.A. card is Future Sight. It's the kind of card you need to play to really grasp how powerful it is. And is a good removal magnet to cast before the win cons.
Another tip that can be imported from cEDH tables is to mulligan more aggressively. This is quite a common topic on spike circles in all formats and applies here too. If a opening hand doesn't foster a win con game plan or have good answers then why keep it? In magic, reducing variance is a powerful tool and mulligan is a strong way to reduce variance.
To add to this it's also a good thing when you mulligan to consider how much mana you have turn 1 as you will often find a lot of fast plays that can come up with a turn one rhystic study so a tonne of ramp with draw is also a good keep especially if you are up first. If you don't have fast mana in your hand another good keep could potentially contain powerful ways to slow your opponents down like collector Ouphe which will force your opponents to either waste a force of will at worst (Indicating they might have the win with the fast mana) and at best will force your opponents to stoop to a slower speed of magic or mystic Remonora which the latter either is a value piece or will force your opponents to play super conservatively until the fish dies.
Sometimes it's equally important to consider your hand good but not enough ramp or not enough ways to stop your opponents ramp is pretty much the message I am giving here. As a wincon without mana means you can not try to go for the win early or answers without open mana equally also is a bad keep. Which of course runs true for your opponents which is why having a hand that slows ramp also can be just as good if you are running a more grindy, control type of deck that also means they will have less mana to answer your attempts to win and less mana to protect their wincons or to even cast their wincon.
I can't thank you enough, this is the advice I needed!
Glad I could help!
My favorite is my current commander Aesi in my simic mill/control deck. Draw for each land and play an extra land per turn. :)
I run a competitor Animar (27 lands) and a competitive Ashaya (26 lands). The biggest reason to run fewer lands is to no draw lands. Every land you draw past the ones you actually need is a dead card that could’ve been a response or win con. In both of my competitive decks the goal is to draw 4 lands all game with 2 and a mana rock in my opening for Animar and 2 with 2 mana dorks and a tutor in my opening for Ashaya.
The most powerful thing you can do is take advantage of mulligans.
Necropotence is my favorite card advantage engine. Right up there with Smothering Tithe.
Well researched and presented. Enjoyed it.
Thank you very much :)
Good golly, you need more than just 30 lands unless you have a really good reason to be skimping. (like if you're playing elf-tribal or Jhoira, with 30 mana-rocks)
I cannot stress this enough: ramping by one or a few mana in the early game is not helping you, if you're missing land drops on the following turns. You want to ramp, AND not miss your land drops.
Some points:
-30 lands in a 99 card deck equates to your land being than less than a third of your deck. In a 1v1, 60-card red aggro deck, that ratio is fine, but in casual edh you need to be prepared for the mid or long game because the game dynamic is much different.
-The general, "guided base" of 24 lands to a 60 card deck roughly equals 40 lands to a 99 card deck.
-A 99 card deck inherently has less consistency than a 60 card deck, so it's even easier to get land screwed if you're not running enough.
I would like to add in regards to lands that if you cant use as efficient rocks as you tend to see in cEDH lists, I would still skew towards slightly more lands and slightly less rocks.
Very true, this is good advice.
Great video man.
If EDH and cEDH are different, it's only on a conceptual level. It's the same format. Everybody can play these cards.
It's just like playing in standard. If you want to brew a deck that can beat the current meta, while doing the thing you want it to do, you totally can.
People have spent a lot of time playing commander, and optimizing their strategies. Enough time that there's a healthy meta-game. Like all other formats, it's about efficiency.
Can your deck combo off, and win in one turn? Can you interact with a player who's trying to do that themselves? Can you reliably establish an efficient, powerful engine in the first few turns? If the answer is yes to more than one of those, then your deck can do exactly what you want it to do, and still play with cEDH decks.
Also... proxies are a thing. If you want to play with this power level in your group, it's pretty easy, and cheap. Building powerful decks is fun, that's why we play EDH.
Agree 100% with everything you've said (especially the first sentence :P )
I'm just doing some prep now for some more Budget-friendly cEDH content, so watch this space!
I'm an aggro player at heart, so I tend to play decks that are aggressive and sometimes tempo-y.
Because of that I like my favorite card advantage engines are ones that generate me advantage by attacking. Equipment like Mask of Memory and Sword of Fire and Ice are great for that. In Blue we've got the Coastal Piracy effects. Other colors have creatures like Oakhame Adversary or Azra Oddsmaker.
I love Oakhame and Azra so much, but I worry about recommending them because many more casual tables run more creatures that make getting these through pretty difficult. At higher power tables though, there's almost always someone with an open board that can guarantee a free draw every turn. Gotta love Green Bob!
@@Foyfluff I find it rare that everyone has blockers all the time even in casual games. That typically only happens later in the game, in which case you typically don't want to draw Oakhame or Azra anyways.
I play a lot of Mask of Memory (similar effect) and I tend to consistently draw cards in casual games. I also play a lot of Captain Lannery Storm who, while she doesn't draw me cards, gets me mana turn after turn so long as she doesn't get kileld in combat.
One of my favorite card advantage engines is The Locust God and Ephara, God of the Polis
Really cool content! Thank you and keep up the good work
Thank you very much!
Excellent video!
Villainous Wealth is my favorite card advantage spell. If it doesn’t end the game, then it sure disrupts things.
Loved the vid!
I'm very glad you enjoyed it, thank you very much! :)
Consecrated sphinx is my all time favorite card advantage engine. Its maybe not as good as other engines like rhystic study since people have an easier time killing a creature than an enchantment, but there is something fun about saying "oh, you drew a card? I'll draw two".
Consecrated Sphinx is nice, but nothing is quite as nice as Notion Thief, especially with a windfall!
Really? I thought asking would youlike to pay 1 is more fun XD
Good vid!
Chulane is a good draw engine for commander. Korvold gets really crazy, really easy.
Chulane does it all! Ramps, draws, wins.
Get there man 1k quick then 2k soon after
We're getting very close!
Great content! You have a new subscriber :)
Thank you very much!
Card advantage engine outside of Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study? Here's some of my budget favourites:
Verity Circle
Compost
Azra Oddsmaker
Pain Seer
Notion Thief
Favourite card advantage engine is probably either fecundity and prossh or greater good in hydras. Nice video, nice accent, sub'd.
Fecundity is an interesting one, cards all around! Thank you very much, appreciate the support :)
@@Foyfluff it's almost like playing group hug except you get to play with prossh xD
Nice video. I like vilis broker of blood as an card advantage. Do thing there is any deck that can handle on the stack lick cedh decks and also good on board as well?
I'm no expert, but my first thought would be Najeela, the Blade Blossom. Being all 5 colours gives her a lot of stack interaction, but her abilities give you a good chance of fighting on the board as well. I'm sure there's plenty more adaptive decks though :)
In case you didn't see it in the video, what's your favourite card advantage spell/engine?
Urza. He's the engine by himself. One of the only cEDH commanders that you build the deck around, rather than throwing in the commander for the color pool like Tymna/Thrassios, or Kenrith/Najeela.
My favorite card advantage spell is Paradoxical Outcome. I really like the artifact storm play-styles, and there's no better card for advantage in those decks than paradoxical outcome.
Would love to build a fully powered Urza deck someday. The artifact dream.
Hapatra and yogmoth. I built a deck around it I love it so much. Keeps the board clear at instant speed while providing card advantage. If you get a blood artist effect out it won’t even cost you life.
Point of clarification if you have both parts out it’s instant speed.
@@wyattgrenstiner1709 One of the players in my playgroup (who read over the script to this video for me so big ups to them) plays Hapatra and it was this combo that forced us to improve our decks. I'm very glad we did though, I massively enjoy the more interaction heavy and complex meta we have now.
Gitrog monster + dakmor salvage is my current favourite
Gitrog Monster, sacs lands and doesn't afraid of anything.
In my pit and toothy deck, toothy is my favorite card advantage!
Mmm, toothsome
filter lands are very good
I have viewed a lot of cEDH content recently however I don't play it either. However I think there is an aspect used in cEDH which you didn't mention which I think (in the right playgroup) can be used. Answers and interaction not only protection but also the use of stax pieces especially if you are a slower deck. But also running answers which will be able to remove them. A lot of player seems to complain about certain cards when n reality they should be better to have answer to those cards.
You're absolutely right. Stax elements are an important part of the cEDH meta, and they're very under-represented in more casual games, but I didn't include them in the video for a few reasons, but the biggest one is because stax strategies are very particular. A deck using stax should know how and when to use them and have a plan for getting out from under them and actually being able to pull off a win. Advising people to use stax without being particular on how exactly they should be used would likely reduce the amount of fun for everyone involved. They're very much their own thing, and they deserve a video all to themselves.
@@Foyfluff Fule of thumb does this hurt your opponents more than you then they are probably god to use. Like if you ramp with creatures you can probably use Root Maze. Since your opponents will likely ramp with lands or creatures (or a decent enough times it would make sense to include). If you can ramp by creatures and or artifacts Winter Orb is probably fine. Since it can cut or green ramp or some blue decks. Wanna attack with big fatties Tangle Wire will probably be a good choice since it can cut off decks going wide while limiting their mana base. However I would like to see a video where you discuss the subject further.
@@Tupiaz Yeah I'll definitely look into this idea more! I haven't played much stax myself although I do think I understand it decently well, so after a bit of practise with it or a consultation with someone a bit better versed in the field, this could translate into a future video.
Alternate win conditions are preferably at instant speed, definitely not at wait a full turn speed.
Definitely preferable
Hia! Token comment generated from the prompt, happening right before the main content
Good luck to you sir
My favorite card Advantage engine is the graveyard
Thank you very much, and good luck to yourself in your own endeavours :)
I am only worried about is saying 30~ lands is enough, going down that low is only good if the Mana Curve is low enough.
So the intent of the advice is to advocate at least 30 lands + at least 15 nonland mana sources, and to replace missing nonland mana sources with extra lands, but if I make an addendum to this video, this is a topic I'll look at a bit more and clarify as well.
@@Foyfluff That makes more sense, I think my brain just didn't quite follow it through like that. Commander Mana is a very tough and complicated field sometimes
@@SkellyBobRoss Its quite alright, you're not the only one to have raised this point so I think it's definitely on me that I didn't make my point very clear. Thank you for your feedback :)
Always use protection
I'm a sixteen year old with a competitive yisan deck and I've never had too spend much money to make it work
That's great to hear and very cool! :)
Ukkima and cazur unblockable tribal?
Is that a deck suggestion?
@@Foyfluff i cant think of a better "combat damage" deck
@@dam49365 Ah okay, I mean, it depends. I run a Maelstrom Wanderer deck that often wins through combat damage, but it's almost as a by-product of casting so many big creatures haha.
I looked at your previous videos and saw that you do a mix of Magic stuff, like Pioneer. I'm a player who has been around since Beta and I used to play competitively in the late 90s and early 2000s, but now I am all EDH. If your content were all about EDH I'd subscribe for sure but if you create a playlist for your EDH stuff I'd save it. I do this for Star City Games and their Commander VS videos. I just have zero interest in non-EDH stuff these days.
I completely understand that point of view. I'm mostly the same way. I was competitive in Modern and Standard for a few years but then 'gave up' Magic and now EDH is pretty much the only thing I play in paper. It's quite difficult to make online content around the format though, which is why I do Pioneer streams regularly. There's certainly more EDH content coming though, so I will playlist that stuff up for yourself and other viewers like you :)
@@Foyfluff Be sure to post it on Reddit since that's how I found this video.
@@craig1287 Will do!
Imho the biggest mistake I and many have made is playing too many expensively costed splashy spells, even with s lot if ramp. If the Cedh player plays green, notice they play like every mana dork ever, boring but consistent!
Think you might have accidentally missed a lil bit! But yeah, if I add to this video in the future, lowering your curve is likely top of the list of improvements I'd make.
*Uro*
Go to 2:18 to skip the intro.
Thanks for posting this, I usually try to get straight into my content, but looks like I might have been a bit self-indulgent with my intro this time around!
Secret cEDH player suggests casuals play flash hulk so that rules committee will ban flash. Real strats
Shhh, don't tell them! We need to resort to guerrilla warfare to save our format!
rules committee banlist is retarded. Cedh should have a separate banlist
You look like Kuill from star wars. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiil
Update from the future! When he displays the sushi hulk combo flash was in fact banned! Do remember this if u actually consider that combo!
Many magic the gathering players ask..
991th !!!
"put infinite combos in your deck, make it basically a cedh deck without the expensive fast mana and tutors" lol.
For $100 I can make a deck in any color combination that will consistently win turn 5-7 vs 3 other players via a combo
Cedh ruined the best format in magic, I genuinely hope bad things happen, your the second worst thing in magic right behind investors and just ahead of the netdecks in other formats.
1. I'm not a cEDH player, there's even a disclaimer at the beginning of the video stating so.
2. How does cEDH existing have any effect on how you play the game?
3. Why do you feel that your way of playing the game is superior to other people's if that's how they enjoy playing it?
Also, many of us want to be able to play with absolutely terrible cards that we love. The only way to be able to bridge the gap in power between our trash cards and those of of our friends’ inherently superior strategies is to clean up at deck construction.
I am inherently a weaker player. Many players would say I deserve to lose every game I play because of this. Yet I would sooner leave the game for good than be stomped out every single time I shuffle up. By taking the time to clean up my deck’s construction, I can bridge that gap. cEDH’s core deck building philosophy has singlehandedly resurrected my love of deck building, and the game as a whole.
Your statements and your mindset are just fundamentally flawed and unfair, just as unfair as a person I used to play with who refused to play anything but turn 2-3 storm against us.
@@curts7801 Excellent response. I really like the idea that even if your deck just aims to play silly stuff or pet cards, it's still beneficial for you to build your deck more optimally to ensure that you get to play those favourites more consistently.
@@Foyfluff I never said you where a CEDH player I was addressing the community not you directly and I stand by my sentiment CEDH ruined the format just like the internet ruined magic, CEDH players drive up the price of singles look at vedalken orrery it was $5 for years until the command zone and the CEDH crowd drove it up to $32, they promote netdecking, and they power creep the format.
@@Foyfluff I have nothing against optimizing your casual deck, my issue is top tier degenerate bullshit that CEDH player build and the side effects of it on the rest of us that just want edh to stay casual.