It is incredible to me how little footage is available of the Great Northern electrics going through the Cascade tunnel (or am I just not looking in the right places).
Very interesting, but the film raises a number of questions. I don't know if you have the answers? First, almost the obvious one; what was the voltage on the catenary? I doubt it was the near standard 25Kv AC of British and European overhead electric systems. We have a number of different voltages on British overhead electrical systems, (never mind our third rail systems!) Second; an easy one (I think.) All three 'motors' appeared to be pulling current, judging by arcing on both pantographs on all three locos so, were they in "multiple unit" mode or, were all three crewed and driven as triple headed locos? Third; what was the gradient through the tunnel and why were the helper engines (the motors) coupled at the head end? In the UK, tunnel or not, nearly all helper engines were positioned at the rear of the train as pushers. Usually not coupled. Up to three pushers and even 2 x 0-6-0 tank engines and a 2-10-0 together on the infamous 'Likey Incline! ! in 38 or 2.65% for two miles. Thus the train need not stop, or stop for long and need not stop at the top to release the pushers. They often joined on while on the move, carried out the shove and then dropped off at the summit, to return light engine(s) to the bottom. The above question raises another operational issue. If the motors were used to reduce the smoke and gas in the tunnel - five miles is a long way at that sort of speed - why did all the steam train engines appear to be working hard? Even on the short passenger trains. Intuitively, the motors would simply push from the rear while the train engine could coast, without filling the tunnel with smoke? I didn't realise a couple of minutes of film could raise so many questions.
Thank you for the great questions! I'll answer what I can: The lines carried 11,000v 25 cycle currents. As for the motors, I'm not 100% sure, but *think* they worked in tandem. Each unit had pneumatically operated unit switches which, again, I *think* allowed communications between units. The grade through the tunnel is 26'4"/mile, just shy of 1/2 a percent. The helpers were at the head because the fires in the steam locos were banked and the units were basically shut down for the trip through to lessen smoke inside. Since they didn't provide power, they would have been dead weight at the head. This may have been too much to safely push. Hope this helps!
@@azuma892 I believe it is. Or at lease without locking the couplers. I know in Altoona, PA, they have helpers at the rear of the trains a lot of times and they will uncouple once off the grade while the main train keeps moving.
They may very well be! I know Charles Mellen (president of the New Haven) introduced electrics to the tunnel. I had heard that some of the motors were the same ones as well.
Thank you for the reply @@Imrfilms we are still waiting for you to make a nice video of our local Cuttingsville VT trestle! Keep up the good work Imrfilms.
So with the steam locomotives, they would bank the fires to dampen down the smoke being released. The steamers were still live and burning, they just basically put them in idle and let the electrics do their thing through the tunnel!
The fireman obviously knew the tunnel was being approached and got his fire in shape with no smoke before hand. The engineer used just enough steam to keep from being dead weight.
Great videos & so interesting to see. Thanks for the details in the comment stream. Hoosac is such an interesting part of the railroading scene
Thank you!
Wonderful film I'm new to the electrification of the tunnel.
Thank you! The electrification was quite the undertaking!
It is incredible to me how little footage is available of the Great Northern electrics going through the Cascade tunnel (or am I just not looking in the right places).
I've never seen that footage! I'll have to check it out.
Great footage! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!
Thanks for the great video ❤😊
You're welcome!
Very interesting, but the film raises a number of questions. I don't know if you have the answers? First, almost the obvious one; what was the voltage on the catenary? I doubt it was the near standard 25Kv AC of British and European overhead electric systems. We have a number of different voltages on British overhead electrical systems, (never mind our third rail systems!)
Second; an easy one (I think.) All three 'motors' appeared to be pulling current, judging by arcing on both pantographs on all three locos so, were they in "multiple unit" mode or, were all three crewed and driven as triple headed locos?
Third; what was the gradient through the tunnel and why were the helper engines (the motors) coupled at the head end? In the UK, tunnel or not, nearly all helper engines were positioned at the rear of the train as pushers. Usually not coupled. Up to three pushers and even 2 x 0-6-0 tank engines and a 2-10-0 together on the infamous 'Likey Incline! ! in 38 or 2.65% for two miles. Thus the train need not stop, or stop for long and need not stop at the top to release the pushers. They often joined on while on the move, carried out the shove and then dropped off at the summit, to return light engine(s) to the bottom.
The above question raises another operational issue. If the motors were used to reduce the smoke and gas in the tunnel - five miles is a long way at that sort of speed - why did all the steam train engines appear to be working hard? Even on the short passenger trains. Intuitively, the motors would simply push from the rear while the train engine could coast, without filling the tunnel with smoke?
I didn't realise a couple of minutes of film could raise so many questions.
Is it possible to push something without coupling up with knuckle couplers?
Thank you for the great questions! I'll answer what I can:
The lines carried 11,000v 25 cycle currents.
As for the motors, I'm not 100% sure, but *think* they worked in tandem. Each unit had pneumatically operated unit switches which, again, I *think* allowed communications between units.
The grade through the tunnel is 26'4"/mile, just shy of 1/2 a percent. The helpers were at the head because the fires in the steam locos were banked and the units were basically shut down for the trip through to lessen smoke inside. Since they didn't provide power, they would have been dead weight at the head. This may have been too much to safely push.
Hope this helps!
@@azuma892 I believe it is. Or at lease without locking the couplers. I know in Altoona, PA, they have helpers at the rear of the trains a lot of times and they will uncouple once off the grade while the main train keeps moving.
As for running, they all pulled current due to the fact that we hadn't really figured traction motors out all that well by this point.
These motors look similar to the New Haven's EF-1 freight motors
They may very well be! I know Charles Mellen (president of the New Haven) introduced electrics to the tunnel. I had heard that some of the motors were the same ones as well.
Great video is this still in use?
Thank you! Yes, the tunnel is still active!
The electric wires got torn down but the tunnel is still used
@@darthmaul216 Good point! They also took out one of the lines, so now it's single track.
What was this year?
I’m not sure the exact year. The line was electrified in 1911 and remained until 1947. Given the footage quality and steam locos, I’d say the mid 30s?
Thank you for the reply @@Imrfilms we are still waiting for you to make a nice video of our local Cuttingsville VT trestle! Keep up the good work Imrfilms.
@@MaxPowersHedgehog I'd love to get there some day! I love the VTR!
Amazing footage, thank you for sharing! I see now how they got two tracks in that tunnel and it still seems almost impossible looking at it today
@@westwasbest Thank you!
i can understand the need for the electric engine, but you can not simply shut down the burning coal.... explain!
So with the steam locomotives, they would bank the fires to dampen down the smoke being released. The steamers were still live and burning, they just basically put them in idle and let the electrics do their thing through the tunnel!
The fireman obviously knew the tunnel was being approached and got his fire in shape with no smoke before hand. The engineer used just enough steam to keep from being dead weight.
@@Imrfilms if you restrict the air intake they will accumulate CO and become explosive