The OM606 like the OM603 is designed to be NA and turbo charged. That's why the good flowing intake and exhaust and the shorter stroke for more RPM. So the NA version can make some power. The M57 is from ground up designed to be a turbo charged engine and doesn't need to be in high RPM for power.
@@thaboy_j Bosch made the commonrail system, I particular the injectors due to the serie specefications of in this case daimler benz. So I can tell you something about the injection system and its potential, not about the potential of the engine, this question goes to mercedes. In this case, the system haves a potential of 2200bar injection pressure, if the engine is able to handle it, ask mercedes
@@Stress951 E60 535d 2008 and almost 400k kilometers. Engine runs perfectly. No problems at all. Oil changed after each 6000km, so I think it can make 1 million :) And the consumption is really gorgeous. My engine has around 350hp and 700Nm, but on the highway you can make 6 liters per 100km if you will not push it hard. Thank you BMW 😀
Hello, there is a topic you have been wondering about lately. There is some oil burning in my car. I have a m57 e46 2003 330d car. . Do I need to change the timing chain? Everyone tells me to change it, but there is nothing abnormal. My vehicle has 290,000 km :)
You answered yourself why the M57's inlet is so strange - different length runners. At low engine speeds it uses the long runner, at high engine speeds it opens the flap that lets air through the short runner also. A long runner puts the intake in tune at low RPM and using only one valve increases air speed which increases swirl in the cylinder and decreses ignition delay. It's one of the many reasons why the M57 is much more efficient than the OM606 and produces not just a lot more torque in stock form, but also over a much broader RPM range. Tuned OM606s have shit powerbands, they make all their power up top which makes it completely pointless to use a Diesel in the first place, where as there's 700hp M57s that still make over 700Nm at 2000rpm.
I recently swapped my E34 Touring from M51 to an early 193HP M57 from an E39 and the wiring could not have been easier. Also i can confirm the oil pickup in the early M57 engines is made from metal and very solid. Very good engines, i worked on many of them and own quite a few and besides the odd bad injector and fuel regulator gasket i can't complain. Never had a plastic part fail on these in a way it would leave you stranded.
@@miguelosterroht as I did also swap the transmission over to a 6-speed manual from the E46 (320d in my case) I needed a newer style 330d 6-speed flywheel with built in pilot bearing. That would be the single most expensive part I had to buy. If I would have used the 5-speed manual from the e39 the shopping list would have been a lot shorter. My donor car was 200€ (engine, ecus, coolers, parts of the exhaust), flywheel and clutch about 700€, transmission ~150€, transmission mount and accessories ~150€, E38 730d sump, oil pickup and left engine bracket ~50€ + 50€ for a buddy to shorten the sump for me, Mercedes Benz front half of driveshaft which just so happened to perfectly fit 10€, different starter motor for different flywheel ~40€, e39 523i right engine mount ~10€, Volvo diesel engine mount for the left side + custom spacer ~50€ + random small parts everywhere And of course a LOT of time and swearing! Making the exhaust fit (DPF and middle silencer from e39 so I can keep the emissions rating of the e39) was by far the most annoying task to me. I can weld alright but I just hate doing exhaust work.
@@Coldministrator may I ask why you didn't use the m51 left engine mount? I'm currently restoring an E34 525td and I'm planning on doing the swap after bodywork is done - I've read that the left m51 mount fits as it is...
@@endritbikliqi3327 the right mount does fit from the m51, the left one only partially lines up and also the holes that do line up are used by another bracket for the alternator I believe. You can probably make it work but not without welding and the e38 mount was a lot easier to get the desired result for me. Barely clears the steering box but still easier.
Thanks for all the great content and information. You've introduced the oM606 to me and I want to own one! I have 2 common rail cummins trucks manual and auto and a 2001 golf tdi alh manual. I love my diesel vehicles! Keep up the great work guys! E320 cdi's are hard to find in Canada.
Love what you've done. Love the fact that you've tried to be nice about NOT complaining about all the vacuum lines that need replacing and all the plastics that they hook up to. Maybe you can help the BMW people with some nicely built replacement parts.. After all, developing parts for two platforms is better than one.. There are a LOT of M and N57 engines out there to be had ....😁
Excellent video… I’m a beemer fan but have a lot of respect for the 606 motor. Would be nice to see a fully tuned M57 run by you as there’s hardly any videos like the 606.
I really loved this video. Love the M57, I've had 2 of them. would love to see some trick bits for them, like an aluminum water pipe to replace the plastic one next to the oil cooler/heat exchanger thingy. I would love to see more videos on the M and N 57 engines.
@@mragbmtfkr5877 om606 would be easier to swap as dont have to mess with ecu, as the fuel pump is mechanical. But, i would have to say my choice would be m57.
Excellent presentation. Persoanlly I'd love to see a little more about the bottom ends of the engines. I appreciate that they are essentially air pumps but it's still an area of interest. I'd be happy to change a manifold but I would pay someone to change the rods, bearing etc. Likewise a little commentary on the relative economy of the engines would be interesting. I'm assuming that for a given output the BMW engine would be more efficient but it would be inreseting to know how much
My attention is on the sand colour tub in the back ground.. I call then valve STEM as in valve stem oil seal. Nice video as alway with great attention to detail.
If you search Santjer performance development, LLC you’ll see big power gains on those plastic pieces and may be impressed. Regardless, I’m happy you made this video. I enjoy both motors and have swaps planned for both. 🥂
I am laughing because I did start to fall asleep exactly at the point he mentioned and I woke back up exactly at the spot where he switched up the narration style! This man is such an amazing orator, I have always wondered why he has not been snatched up and promoted to mainstream. I hope he doesn't because I am a huge fan of his specialized content. Incredibly thankful for this info and video!
OM606 feels like a M51, lol ( by the looks only) It looks good,it's simple and its easy to dissasemble.(M57) Intake could be aluminium aswell,but the plastic ones are good for 3-4bar and its enough. Specially the older model ones are better,thicker. Main reason for failing is the shit that comes from the egr. And your rocker cover seems as its from x35D. Doesnt have the air filter part on the side. Twin turbo engines have also R90 (the 272hp one). Larger fuel pump Once the engine is with piezo injectors, its R70 (as well the twin turbo 282hp) M47 (2litre) is using the R70 aswell. M57 springs are the same. Only choice is aftermarket, sad but true. The intake/exhaust ports are bad, i totally agree. But there is room for improvement too. Older engines had metal pickup for oil,dont even know why they changed to plastic. A really good video. Nice to see some actual difference between those engines.
Well done. Thank you for this video and the work it took to make it. Small diesel engines aren't my bread and butter, but I was looking at both of these for an odd swap into my Datsun.
This is awesome that your acknowledging these bmw engines. I’ve bought quite a few parts from you for my om606 project. Hope you go nuts with the m57 because I have a x5 35d as well
This was a fantastic video which kept me glued to the screen without fast forwarding anything. You are very charismatic and keep me laughing. Would you consider doing a M57 vs N57 video? I am wanting to put one of these with the ZF8hp transmission into an 80 series Landcruiser. I wish I lived in the UK as I would bring it to you.
My 2009 m57tu306d3 has 410 thousand km on it and no mechanical issues whatsoever, nor plastic pieces failing. Only thing I've had to replace twice was the glow plug module. Important for the DPF models to preventatively replace your thermostats (engine and egr cooler), otherwise your coolant temp will not exceed 75 degrees often enough to regenerate the DPF. Since you wont have a coolant temp gauge you'll want to either use and obd2 tool to verify your coolant temp under normal running conditions, or outright blindly replace both thermostats.
If you look at the M57 inlet ports, ive always thought you could open both valves to feed from the side ports and just cap the top ports and itd flow better. ive got a head to try it with, as there may be a water jacket or something in the way. that would allow for a much simpler fabricated inlet, and make maintenance and changing injectors much easier.
That bore and stroke difference is all that needs to be said when it comes to the 606 throwing down heaps of power vs the 57’s stonking torque figures.
Exactly. That’s like literally the main reason. M57= common rail, variable geometry turbo, big stroke= torque 606= mechanical pump, wastegate tudbo, bigger bore= rpm= hp
i came here with the expectations that you were gonna bash on the m57 to make the 606 looks better, i love the 606, i dont care for the m57, but i am a bmw guy, not a merc fan as such... but to conclude, i really enjoyed that you gave an honest opinion and explained the differences between the engines! much apriciated and great content as always
Stellar fuckin break down mate! One of your best vids yet! Very informative and straight to the point. I've seen many of your vids as a huge om606 fan, and you could not have convinced me more that the 606 is the engine to go to, through this video alone, much less all your others. You've come a long way. It's a pipe dream of mine to put a 606/605 in my Tacoma, all thanks to you... GREAT WORK!! TWO THUMBS UP!! Keep em coming!!
Time to get that M57 head ported then, would be fun to see the difference. We run the M57 in our rally car and the thing just won't go very stout engine.
Great video. Proud owner of a 2010 335D & a 2011 X5 35D. The motor's in these are great powerplants. I personally like the low rev high torque these motors give even in their stock form.
Perfect overview man! Actually i guess all around the world already understood, that electrical and plastic engines - are child of marketing, but not engineers. Best regards from Russia!!!
Regarding the intake ports on the M57 head, you have to remember that those contours work in tandem with the swirl flaps. You can actually force air quicker while spinning it like you would water out a bottel. The 606m might take longer to get the same amout of air.
@@alexfeatherstone6676 agreed, I removed them on mine for that same reason. I’ll give bmw credit though, they did redesign the flaps on the N57 to correct this issue.
I removed and blanked the flaps, but the low torque reduced and the turbo lag is a bit higher/bigger. I would install back the flaps if I could buy brand new.
I had an E90 330d manual and got it to over 200k miles and then sold it. Last time I checked, it was still on the road. It was also tuned as far as you can go with the stock turbo and never missed a beat. It is a great engine. For the past 4 years I've been driving an e91 335d, also tuned... its such a pleasure to drive. Convinced my nephew to get an E60 535d and he's loving it. Counting the number of cars I've had with an M57, turns out I've had 4! E39 530d Touring, E65 730d Sport, and the two E9Xs I mentioned previously.
I’m into 6 yrs of ownership on my e91 m57 325d and even now l still look forward to driving it,fantastic engine in all aspects and just done chains at 209,000 miles as a preventative measure. I want to keep this car forever as nothing newer appeals to me.
D/P. Great short sweet comparison ! Earlier cast iron blocks for the M57 were made by VM Motori(Italy)Spa, that BMW mounted their heads too ? From a historical perspective there may be carry over on the OM606 out of Motor Turbine Union(MTU) from Germany and their light duty diesel technology circa 19/20th century. V
Very nice video, i would still pick the 606 to my w124 after all these years with it but in to my Sprinter to haul trailer and all goodies the M57 is the weapon.
For a daily driver torque and (I guess) the lower consumption of the M57 since it is designed for more low end torque and is common rail, it would be my choice. And also I guess it would be great for a van or a small truck, especially if you do a lot of towing. Especially if you driver over the Alps, Brenner Pass for an example, with 100-150 km of uphill slope an engine that can do the work at a lower RPM will use quite a bit less fuel. And you can stay on a higher gear and change gears less often. :)
Thx,from Germany, for the great comparison! Actually i wasn't bored at all! I fell in love with my dads w124 300td turbo(150hp version) which suffered 2times from headgasketfailure bacl then and my father sold it...actually I'd say the the m57 is as good as an option then the om606. The big plus for the bmw is parts availability, big availability of ecus and forum tuning writeup and it passes even eu4 on the right engine and exhaust. But the greatest strength for it is the availability of gearboxes. Manual as auto and if you go m57tu and put an zf8hp to it(with some aftermarket controller for sure) they really go crazy...i know of a guy with an 130d with a zf8hp (ex120d swapped to m57) doing a low 7s 100-200km/h...
@@AdmissionGaming the HG Failing was a common known problem for those cars because they had organic HG and they couldnt handle the stress in the last 2 cylinders. Nowadays if you rebuilt them, you actually have good radiators, probably a mls HG, do the surface on head and block and you run them with a lot of maintenance and upgraded stuff. Back then in my childhood my father bought the 300TD with under 20k mileage and drove it something past 200k with the headgasket failing every 100k....the bad thing just was that this happened second time on christmas eve and then the taxes for those diesels went above 2k euro in germany...btw a big reason why so many om606 cars were scrapped or sold +150hp with 10l Dieselconsumption wasnt a good thing either...but nevertheless, the om606 300td was said to be more problematic then the 250td variant...
@@AdmissionGaming What kind of turbo and pump combination makes 800nm of torque with only 320hp ?? Do you have the factory 5speed nissan with a heavy duty clutch???
@@maxgr7723 150 HP or better 147 Hp was the OM 603 without intercoller (W124 series). The OM 606 NA= 136 HP and OM 606 Turbo Intercooler =177PS( Built in the W210 series) Only the OM 603 147 HP Variant had Problems with the cylinder gasket if not driven responsable. Cool, down after motorway speeding... OM 606 never had any Problems with the cylinder head or gasket! Fuel consumption with automatic about 10 liters. On the other had the M57 BMW had problems with the injection systems . The magentic injection valves caused problems to blow up the pistons: Fuel permanentaly sprayed in.... But consumption about 1,5 Liter less than OM 606. But for rough play with tuning and more horsepower i would go for the OM 606. And if you want to drive through 3 rd world countries with bad diesel fuel: More sulfur or wather, the inline Injection pump is much more robust. We had the OM 603 Turbo in the S124 station wagon, the Om 606 Turbo Intercooler in the W210 and the M57 in he E39 BMW
@@ralfpusteblume2144 hi Ralf then i learned something new. I always thought the later w124 models all came with the early om606 engines with mechanic dieselpump whereas the w210 had the electronic dieselpump...if so that might make a lot of sense. All i know is my father always said his had 150hp...but could be that it was actually the 147hp...the multiple failed hg failures if say were caused because the block was never refurbished on the surface and only the head...so the roughness on the blockside was not good thus the headgasket failing sooner and more often...
you know there are youtube channel that all they do is engine tear down. I'm totally down to watch the tear down of these engines for couple of hours :)
Worst bits of the M57 I saw working at BMW weren't even the plastic bits (apart from the DISA flaps falling off and being ingested). They seemed to overheat cylinders 3&4 quite a bit, resulting in significant wear, and those exhaust manifolds are way too spindly and bend like bananas. We tried to get one machined at the customer's insistence and it ended up very thin at the ends and still unusable as the stud holes were now too angled to refit it! They used to love getting injectors and glow plugs stuck in the holes too. And of course the classic BMW rod bearings wearing out. Still not as bad as the N57 though.
Decent concise info thanks! Specifically what m57 engine and displacement have you got here though? Im inclined to thing it may be a 2.5 because it looks like you have solenoid injectors? Would be interesting to know! Thanks Jay!
Regarding M57 valve spring pressure, I'd think it's done for efficiency in the intended RPM range and manifold pressures. I believe it just simply requires less energy to open a lighter spring than a heavier one, resulting in better fuel economy. You'd also have less wear on cams and timing components as another benefit. Are least that's my conclusion on that and my small amount of research. I have bought aftermarket springs for my 330d as I have a hybrid turbo to fit and intend on slightly extending the rev range and I've read that M57's suffer with exhaust valve float at the upper end of the rev range with higher than standard EMP's.
And I believe the long runner is again for fuel efficiency, it's just there to generate more swirl in the combustion chamber at lower RPM meaning a more efficient distribution of the fuel, not necessarily designed for more torque in that area, again I may not be 100% correct but I belive the swirl flaps are closed below a certain RPM threshold and then open up above that as they'll be more airflow.
heavier sor ngs arent bad at all, becouse the spring is harder to push, but in the oposite the spring will push hard after the love. is preti much the same. only at higth rpm would increase friction and wear
Valve spring loss of tension is the primary concern here… this is caused by high cycle fatigue or reduction of the spring temper due to excessive heat. These are primarily a matter for selection of spring material. High silicone steel still remains the industry standard and exotics will not buy you much of anything % wise in endurance or racing like F1 or Indy… PROVIDING THE MATERIAL IS MAINTAINED AT AN ACCEPTABLE TEMPERATURE typically loses loses of tension that can happen in a race is 20%… which coincides with what can be expected for industrial or over the road conditions… or more rare now-a-days piston driven aircraft and for that this fatigue value along with valve recession sets the limit on overhaul requirements. Most of the engineering now has become routine and computer based nearing AI level of set in stone outside of new material developments.
what do you consider high reving m57? I have m57 184hp stock modified to 600hp and 1300 torque stock block and head currently reving to 6500rpm and with room to go for over 700hp (drift build)
One inlet port does the swirl and the other one does the tumble because swirl is good for tranquillizing the air in the middle of the chamber but it does not flow enough (or so I was told)
if you choose between them, then of course I would choose om 606 for tuning in a Mercedes, since its swap is easier due to the fact that there are no electronics, and the fuel pump is mechanical and can be plugged into any car. but the M57 is worth tuning and changing if you have a BMW. so it's all clear to me. well, due to the fact that ohm 606 has a mechanical pump and nozzles, this is its clear advantage, because. mechanical injectors are very cheap compared to electronic in M57
Thank you for a very nice and informative comparison between two popular diesel engines! Very well done, everything explained in such an easy way for viewers to understand! So here is my request: Why not compare more equal common rail engines from the same generation, for example: - BMW M57 to Mercedes 3222 ccm OM648. - VW/Audi 2967 ccm 3,0 TDI V6 to Mercedes 2987 ccm OM642 V6. Yes, I know that you prefer doing mechanical injection diesels for certain reasons but still, it would be very, very, very interesting and sure, we are many viewers who would love seeing that!
at the price of your punp you can get 218hp m57, tuned to 300hp way cheaper and better, also the m57 is comparable to 613/648 not indirect injected 606 that achieves power in high rpms
Ability to rev higher is a benefit that outweigh the fuel consumption downside, that and less problems, less parts that break... One day need to see if its doable to put these parts in a toyota 1jz for a diesel conversion or even a RB motor diesel conversion
Very interesting and no I didn't fall asleep. I am weighing up the options for my Defender 2.4tdci not looking for a race car but torque is important off road. Like the simplicity of the OM06 so leaning that way.
Thanks for the comparison. Living in the old colony across the pond I don’t see many diesels like that. I guess the tear down showed you after three Red Bulls and sucking on a helium balloon to make it less boring. 😂
Really enjoy your videos! I have a 96 E300, any place you would recommend if any in USA for maintenance etc. Having minor issues with bleeding air from fuel lines and Code for P0120. Thank you
Thx for the content! It was very interesting! I heave experienced bouth of the engines plus audi 3 liter diesel and i thik they are durable engines but i find slightly better the m57 because of the fun factor (happiness while driving). Best regards from Croatia!
It sounds like the M57 with the valves and their springs being the same. Is simply for "easier" repair and inventory control. 2 items for the m57 as compared to 4 items in the Om606.
Actually having exhaust valves being the same size as intake valves greatly increases exhaust flow and allows spent gases to exit quicker, most companies use the 75% rule as the exhaust valve is 75% of the size of the intake, that makes the exhaust restrictive. All the air in doesn’t matter much if you can’t get it out just as fast to spool up your turbo. It greatly makes the the engine more efficient, I wouldn’t be surprised if the exhaust valves are made of a different alloy verses the intakes cause an exhaust valve sees a lot more abuse in a diesel that the intake valve. I.E. stainless intake, Inconel Exhaust valves. Also possible sodium filled exhaust valve as well to dampen harmonics.
I'll be building my ultimate 4x4 vechicle when i finish my current stuff , and i was wondering witch engine i should go for, i like the mechanical pump idea for an apocalypse proof vechicle, but in ireland they are very hard to come by. Now i know it's totally different engine, but would om648 be worth consideration?
The OM606 like the OM603 is designed to be NA and turbo charged. That's why the good flowing intake and exhaust and the shorter stroke for more RPM. So the NA version can make some power. The M57 is from ground up designed to be a turbo charged engine and doesn't need to be in high RPM for power.
Right. Retired german Dipl.phys.Ing., working at Bosch on common rail for this generation of engines.
@@heinzweber7642 haha what a strike of luck, if its true, pleasure to meet you.
@@digitalscale76 .... It s true, hahahaha
@@heinzweber7642 What is your opinion on the OM646/7/8 generation that came in later years in terms of performance mods?
@@thaboy_j Bosch made the commonrail system, I particular the injectors due to the serie specefications of in this case daimler benz.
So I can tell you something about the injection system and its potential, not about the potential of the engine, this question goes to mercedes.
In this case, the system haves a potential of 2200bar injection pressure, if the engine is able to handle it, ask mercedes
I love the M57! I have an 2004 BMW X5 3.0d Facelift with 400`000 kilometers / 250`000 miles. Still original injectors, turbo etc. Thanks BMW!
same here, E39 525d 2001, everything original and works perfect.
@@Stress951 E60 535d 2008 and almost 400k kilometers. Engine runs perfectly. No problems at all. Oil changed after each 6000km, so I think it can make 1 million :) And the consumption is really gorgeous. My engine has around 350hp and 700Nm, but on the highway you can make 6 liters per 100km if you will not push it hard. Thank you BMW 😀
shit i'm about to sell my jeep and pick up a 2012 X5 335D to tow a 20 ft boat.
why an SUV, xdrive estates are arguable better.@@og_tokyo
Hello, there is a topic you have been wondering about lately. There is some oil burning in my car. I have a m57 e46 2003 330d car. . Do I need to change the timing chain? Everyone tells me to change it, but there is nothing abnormal. My vehicle has 290,000 km :)
You answered yourself why the M57's inlet is so strange - different length runners. At low engine speeds it uses the long runner, at high engine speeds it opens the flap that lets air through the short runner also. A long runner puts the intake in tune at low RPM and using only one valve increases air speed which increases swirl in the cylinder and decreses ignition delay. It's one of the many reasons why the M57 is much more efficient than the OM606 and produces not just a lot more torque in stock form, but also over a much broader RPM range. Tuned OM606s have shit powerbands, they make all their power up top which makes it completely pointless to use a Diesel in the first place, where as there's 700hp M57s that still make over 700Nm at 2000rpm.
I recently swapped my E34 Touring from M51 to an early 193HP M57 from an E39 and the wiring could not have been easier.
Also i can confirm the oil pickup in the early M57 engines is made from metal and very solid.
Very good engines, i worked on many of them and own quite a few and besides the odd bad injector and fuel regulator gasket i can't complain.
Never had a plastic part fail on these in a way it would leave you stranded.
I really want to do that swap. Would be a perfect daily and autobahn classic Touring. What would be average cost for such a swap?
@@miguelosterroht as I did also swap the transmission over to a 6-speed manual from the E46 (320d in my case) I needed a newer style 330d 6-speed flywheel with built in pilot bearing. That would be the single most expensive part I had to buy. If I would have used the 5-speed manual from the e39 the shopping list would have been a lot shorter.
My donor car was 200€ (engine, ecus, coolers, parts of the exhaust), flywheel and clutch about 700€, transmission ~150€, transmission mount and accessories ~150€, E38 730d sump, oil pickup and left engine bracket ~50€ + 50€ for a buddy to shorten the sump for me, Mercedes Benz front half of driveshaft which just so happened to perfectly fit 10€, different starter motor for different flywheel ~40€, e39 523i right engine mount ~10€, Volvo diesel engine mount for the left side + custom spacer ~50€ + random small parts everywhere
And of course a LOT of time and swearing!
Making the exhaust fit (DPF and middle silencer from e39 so I can keep the emissions rating of the e39) was by far the most annoying task to me. I can weld alright but I just hate doing exhaust work.
@@Coldministrator may I ask why you didn't use the m51 left engine mount? I'm currently restoring an E34 525td and I'm planning on doing the swap after bodywork is done - I've read that the left m51 mount fits as it is...
@@endritbikliqi3327 the right mount does fit from the m51, the left one only partially lines up and also the holes that do line up are used by another bracket for the alternator I believe.
You can probably make it work but not without welding and the e38 mount was a lot easier to get the desired result for me. Barely clears the steering box but still easier.
I disagree om606 all the way mercedes makes the best diesel engines.
You are explaining this 10/10. Calm, honest and still in a fun way. Keep up 👏🏽
Thanks for all the great content and information. You've introduced the oM606 to me and I want to own one! I have 2 common rail cummins trucks manual and auto and a 2001 golf tdi alh manual. I love my diesel vehicles! Keep up the great work guys! E320 cdi's are hard to find in Canada.
Hope DPUK start doing major parts upgrades for the M57! I have the newer M57n2 aluminium block in my 325d E93
Love what you've done. Love the fact that you've tried to be nice about NOT complaining about all the vacuum lines that need replacing and all the plastics that they hook up to. Maybe you can help the BMW people with some nicely built replacement parts.. After all, developing parts for two platforms is better than one.. There are a LOT of M and N57 engines out there to be had ....😁
Om606 Is best though the m57 is like the Rb of 6 cylinder diesels
@@AdmissionGaming lol
@@AdmissionGaming
RockBitch? RolexBoy?
;))
(not much to choose from in any online slang dictionary....:))
Excellent video… I’m a beemer fan but have a lot of respect for the 606 motor. Would be nice to see a fully tuned M57 run by you as there’s hardly any videos like the 606.
👍As always, excellent and very informative presentation. I’m going to watch it again.
So glad your starting on making m57 bits to fix the plastic crap.
I really loved this video. Love the M57, I've had 2 of them. would love to see some trick bits for them, like an aluminum water pipe to replace the plastic one next to the oil cooler/heat exchanger thingy. I would love to see more videos on the M and N 57 engines.
Dpuk just released one
What are the prices of the two engines and what is the best option for installation on the 2009 Patrol?
thank u
@@mragbmtfkr5877 om606 would be easier to swap as dont have to mess with ecu, as the fuel pump is mechanical. But, i would have to say my choice would be m57.
Excellent presentation. Persoanlly I'd love to see a little more about the bottom ends of the engines. I appreciate that they are essentially air pumps but it's still an area of interest. I'd be happy to change a manifold but I would pay someone to change the rods, bearing etc.
Likewise a little commentary on the relative economy of the engines would be interesting. I'm assuming that for a given output the BMW engine would be more efficient but it would be inreseting to know how much
Speaking about plastic / composite intake manifolds they can be made more precisely and have very intricate designed to have the best flow possible.
My attention is on the sand colour tub in the back ground.. I call then valve STEM as in valve stem oil seal.
Nice video as alway with great attention to detail.
If you search Santjer performance development, LLC you’ll see big power gains on those plastic pieces and may be impressed. Regardless, I’m happy you made this video. I enjoy both motors and have swaps planned for both. 🥂
I am laughing because I did start to fall asleep exactly at the point he mentioned and I woke back up exactly at the spot where he switched up the narration style! This man is such an amazing orator, I have always wondered why he has not been snatched up and promoted to mainstream. I hope he doesn't because I am a huge fan of his specialized content. Incredibly thankful for this info and video!
OM606 feels like a M51, lol ( by the looks only)
It looks good,it's simple and its easy to dissasemble.(M57)
Intake could be aluminium aswell,but the plastic ones are good for 3-4bar and its enough.
Specially the older model ones are better,thicker.
Main reason for failing is the shit that comes from the egr.
And your rocker cover seems as its from x35D.
Doesnt have the air filter part on the side.
Twin turbo engines have also R90 (the 272hp one). Larger fuel pump
Once the engine is with piezo injectors, its R70 (as well the twin turbo 282hp)
M47 (2litre) is using the R70 aswell.
M57 springs are the same.
Only choice is aftermarket, sad but true.
The intake/exhaust ports are bad, i totally agree.
But there is room for improvement too.
Older engines had metal pickup for oil,dont even know why they changed to plastic.
A really good video.
Nice to see some actual difference between those engines.
yes, m57 is comparable to om48/613
Feel like a M51? What are you on. The 606 has about 2000rpms more to feel. If anything more so the 603 especially looks wise.
@@TheOnlyKontrol I said, by the looks. Nothing about its performance.
@@metsavend112 but the 603 is a single cam…m51 is a single cam and they both have aluminium finish valve covers. It’s a better comparison
About the rocker cover
I wonder if the previous owner did a cold intake setup?
Great to see what’s making my old RR td6 tick. At some point I d like to do a G wagon 606 project though 😊
Well done. Thank you for this video and the work it took to make it. Small diesel engines aren't my bread and butter, but I was looking at both of these for an odd swap into my Datsun.
This is awesome that your acknowledging these bmw engines. I’ve bought quite a few parts from you for my om606 project. Hope you go nuts with the m57 because I have a x5 35d as well
This was a fantastic video which kept me glued to the screen without fast forwarding anything. You are very charismatic and keep me laughing. Would you consider doing a M57 vs N57 video? I am wanting to put one of these with the ZF8hp transmission into an 80 series Landcruiser. I wish I lived in the UK as I would bring it to you.
Have my 606, just acquired a 2009 335d.
Love your videos 💪
Please upload the full unedited M57 tare down video
I would find it interesting 👍
My 2009 m57tu306d3 has 410 thousand km on it and no mechanical issues whatsoever, nor plastic pieces failing. Only thing I've had to replace twice was the glow plug module. Important for the DPF models to preventatively replace your thermostats (engine and egr cooler), otherwise your coolant temp will not exceed 75 degrees often enough to regenerate the DPF. Since you wont have a coolant temp gauge you'll want to either use and obd2 tool to verify your coolant temp under normal running conditions, or outright blindly replace both thermostats.
If you look at the M57 inlet ports, ive always thought you could open both valves to feed from the side ports and just cap the top ports and itd flow better. ive got a head to try it with, as there may be a water jacket or something in the way. that would allow for a much simpler fabricated inlet, and make maintenance and changing injectors much easier.
That bore and stroke difference is all that needs to be said when it comes to the 606 throwing down heaps of power vs the 57’s stonking torque figures.
Exactly. That’s like literally the main reason.
M57= common rail, variable geometry turbo, big stroke= torque
606= mechanical pump, wastegate tudbo, bigger bore= rpm= hp
Yet to see a 606 make as much horsepower as an m57 stock motor. Theres a guy running 85psi boost
Brilliant video was nice to see inside the head of the M57
What a perfect motor for anything one could put it in. Like a midsize pickup with a manual 6 speed, wow
i came here with the expectations that you were gonna bash on the m57 to make the 606 looks better, i love the 606, i dont care for the m57, but i am a bmw guy, not a merc fan as such... but to conclude, i really enjoyed that you gave an honest opinion and explained the differences between the engines! much apriciated and great content as always
Stellar fuckin break down mate! One of your best vids yet! Very informative and straight to the point. I've seen many of your vids as a huge om606 fan, and you could not have convinced me more that the 606 is the engine to go to, through this video alone, much less all your others. You've come a long way. It's a pipe dream of mine to put a 606/605 in my Tacoma, all thanks to you... GREAT WORK!! TWO THUMBS UP!! Keep em coming!!
Time to get that M57 head ported then, would be fun to see the difference.
We run the M57 in our rally car and the thing just won't go very stout engine.
Would be cool to see a td5 next to an om605 in this style of video
Great video.
Proud owner of a 2010 335D & a 2011 X5 35D.
The motor's in these are great powerplants. I personally like the low rev high torque these motors give even in their stock form.
Perfect overview man! Actually i guess all around the world already understood, that electrical and plastic engines - are child of marketing, but not engineers. Best regards from Russia!!!
Would love to actually see that break down of the M57 as a standalone video if you can caffeinate enough to slog through it!
I own both, om606 and m57tu2 I LOVE THEMMMMM❤ best engines to me
Regarding the intake ports on the M57 head, you have to remember that those contours work in tandem with the swirl flaps. You can actually force air quicker while spinning it like you would water out a bottel. The 606m might take longer to get the same amout of air.
yeah the tumbling effect is beneficial, but for longevity swirl flaps are scary, having them get eaten up isnt good.
@@alexfeatherstone6676 agreed, I removed them on mine for that same reason. I’ll give bmw credit though, they did redesign the flaps on the N57 to correct this issue.
I removed and blanked the flaps, but the low torque reduced and the turbo lag is a bit higher/bigger. I would install back the flaps if I could buy brand new.
The E53 X5 came standard without swirl flaps
@@DaBombtasithere are aftermarket upgrade swirl flaps for sale
No man would fall asleep listening to that matey 👊
Great content! Very well done and structured. Thanks
Every day is a school day with DieselPumpUk! I always learn a ton from you mate! Out of interest have you ever mucked about with Volvo D5’s?
For a factory rod the m57 has a monster setup no wonder you very rarely hear of these engine throw a rod
I do agree, those are massive
Had my 330d tourer with an M57 engine for nearly six years and I just cant part with it.........170k miles on it and the engine is sooooo good!!
I had an E90 330d manual and got it to over 200k miles and then sold it. Last time I checked, it was still on the road. It was also tuned as far as you can go with the stock turbo and never missed a beat. It is a great engine. For the past 4 years I've been driving an e91 335d, also tuned... its such a pleasure to drive. Convinced my nephew to get an E60 535d and he's loving it. Counting the number of cars I've had with an M57, turns out I've had 4! E39 530d Touring, E65 730d Sport, and the two E9Xs I mentioned previously.
I’m into 6 yrs of ownership on my e91 m57 325d and even now l still look forward to driving it,fantastic engine in all aspects and just done chains at 209,000 miles as a preventative measure. I want to keep this car forever as nothing newer appeals to me.
Informative and explained really well 👍🏻
As usual, bloody great vid, really enjoyed and great info 👍
Great vid very un biased and informative the idi merc wins the day for me no electronics no plastic
Keep up the good work
Great video very informative and clearly explained 👏 👍
D/P. Great short sweet comparison ! Earlier cast iron blocks for the M57 were made by VM Motori(Italy)Spa, that BMW mounted their heads too ? From a historical perspective there may be carry over on the OM606 out of Motor Turbine Union(MTU) from Germany and their light duty diesel technology circa 19/20th century. V
I didn’t fall asleep because I eat a popcorn👌🏻👌🏻 Great video 👏🏻👏🏻
Another great video mate, thank you 👍🏽🙏🏽
Very nice video, i would still pick the 606 to my w124 after all these years with it but in to my Sprinter to haul trailer and all goodies the M57 is the weapon.
Why not the V6 3.0CRD in the sprinter and keep it in the family ;-) ?
@@jmileshc OM642
Nice teardown,I won't expect high gains from an m47 bmw
For a daily driver torque and (I guess) the lower consumption of the M57 since it is designed for more low end torque and is common rail, it would be my choice. And also I guess it would be great for a van or a small truck, especially if you do a lot of towing. Especially if you driver over the Alps, Brenner Pass for an example, with 100-150 km of uphill slope an engine that can do the work at a lower RPM will use quite a bit less fuel. And you can stay on a higher gear and change gears less often. :)
Plastic-fantastic 😂
Common rail is a PITA, the main reason to not chose the m57
om648 ,the last good commonrail mercedes made with all aluminum intake manifold.with seriousness torque
The M57 is used in the Enso Grenade with ZF gearbox
Whats an Enso granade dude? I googled it but just comes up with hand grenades.
Is it a military vehicle? Thanks
Great comparison. Cheers!
Thx,from Germany, for the great comparison! Actually i wasn't bored at all! I fell in love with my dads w124 300td turbo(150hp version) which suffered 2times from headgasketfailure bacl then and my father sold it...actually I'd say the the m57 is as good as an option then the om606. The big plus for the bmw is parts availability, big availability of ecus and forum tuning writeup and it passes even eu4 on the right engine and exhaust. But the greatest strength for it is the availability of gearboxes. Manual as auto and if you go m57tu and put an zf8hp to it(with some aftermarket controller for sure) they really go crazy...i know of a guy with an 130d with a zf8hp (ex120d swapped to m57) doing a low 7s 100-200km/h...
Om606 is better never had a headgasket fail. Mine is making 320hp/800nm of torque in a patrol w/33" tyres. Been like that for 3 years.
@@AdmissionGaming the HG Failing was a common known problem for those cars because they had organic HG and they couldnt handle the stress in the last 2 cylinders. Nowadays if you rebuilt them, you actually have good radiators, probably a mls HG, do the surface on head and block and you run them with a lot of maintenance and upgraded stuff. Back then in my childhood my father bought the 300TD with under 20k mileage and drove it something past 200k with the headgasket failing every 100k....the bad thing just was that this happened second time on christmas eve and then the taxes for those diesels went above 2k euro in germany...btw a big reason why so many om606 cars were scrapped or sold +150hp with 10l Dieselconsumption wasnt a good thing either...but nevertheless, the om606 300td was said to be more problematic then the 250td variant...
@@AdmissionGaming What kind of turbo and pump combination makes 800nm of torque with only 320hp ??
Do you have the factory 5speed nissan with a heavy duty clutch???
@@maxgr7723 150 HP or better 147 Hp was the OM 603 without intercoller (W124 series). The OM 606 NA= 136 HP and OM 606 Turbo Intercooler =177PS( Built in the W210 series)
Only the OM 603 147 HP Variant had Problems with the cylinder gasket if not driven responsable. Cool, down after motorway speeding...
OM 606 never had any Problems with the cylinder head or gasket! Fuel consumption with automatic about 10 liters.
On the other had the M57 BMW had problems with the injection systems . The magentic injection valves caused problems to blow up the pistons: Fuel permanentaly sprayed in....
But consumption about 1,5 Liter less than OM 606.
But for rough play with tuning and more horsepower i would go for the OM 606. And if you want to drive through 3 rd world countries with bad diesel fuel: More sulfur or wather, the inline Injection pump is much more robust.
We had the OM 603 Turbo in the S124 station wagon, the Om 606 Turbo Intercooler in the W210 and the M57 in he E39 BMW
@@ralfpusteblume2144 hi Ralf then i learned something new. I always thought the later w124 models all came with the early om606 engines with mechanic dieselpump whereas the w210 had the electronic dieselpump...if so that might make a lot of sense. All i know is my father always said his had 150hp...but could be that it was actually the 147hp...the multiple failed hg failures if say were caused because the block was never refurbished on the surface and only the head...so the roughness on the blockside was not good thus the headgasket failing sooner and more often...
Brilliant explanation, glad you cut out the waffle bollox in the middle. 👍
At any rate I'd still pick a om648 for a common rail diesel any day.
you know there are youtube channel that all they do is engine tear down. I'm totally down to watch the tear down of these engines for couple of hours :)
Would love to see some OM642 content!
Yeah , plentiful and cheap . Good candidate for conversions .
Wery interesting video. Thanks for the comparison
Both engines are great and both of them have their advantages.
Worst bits of the M57 I saw working at BMW weren't even the plastic bits (apart from the DISA flaps falling off and being ingested).
They seemed to overheat cylinders 3&4 quite a bit, resulting in significant wear, and those exhaust manifolds are way too spindly and bend like bananas.
We tried to get one machined at the customer's insistence and it ended up very thin at the ends and still unusable as the stud holes were now too angled to refit it!
They used to love getting injectors and glow plugs stuck in the holes too. And of course the classic BMW rod bearings wearing out.
Still not as bad as the N57 though.
M57 with disa valves ?
Decent concise info thanks! Specifically what m57 engine and displacement have you got here though? Im inclined to thing it may be a 2.5 because it looks like you have solenoid injectors? Would be interesting to know! Thanks Jay!
Loved this video mate thank you
I would be curious of what you feel of the Mercedes V6 CDI against the 606? Please.
A fantastic video really informative and interesting to know keep it up 👍
cheers that was a great video, not boring at all
Good comparison! What do you think of the m51 tds engines? apart from his fame of breaking cylinder heads
Great video. I will be testing a mercedes engine soon, Greetings from EMUTRONICA
ive already swapped om613, if you need hel you can contact me
Regarding M57 valve spring pressure, I'd think it's done for efficiency in the intended RPM range and manifold pressures. I believe it just simply requires less energy to open a lighter spring than a heavier one, resulting in better fuel economy. You'd also have less wear on cams and timing components as another benefit. Are least that's my conclusion on that and my small amount of research. I have bought aftermarket springs for my 330d as I have a hybrid turbo to fit and intend on slightly extending the rev range and I've read that M57's suffer with exhaust valve float at the upper end of the rev range with higher than standard EMP's.
And I believe the long runner is again for fuel efficiency, it's just there to generate more swirl in the combustion chamber at lower RPM meaning a more efficient distribution of the fuel, not necessarily designed for more torque in that area, again I may not be 100% correct but I belive the swirl flaps are closed below a certain RPM threshold and then open up above that as they'll be more airflow.
heavier sor ngs arent bad at all, becouse the spring is harder to push, but in the oposite the spring will push hard after the love. is preti much the same.
only at higth rpm would increase friction and wear
Valve spring loss of tension is the primary concern here… this is caused by high cycle fatigue or reduction of the spring temper due to excessive heat. These are primarily a matter for selection of spring material. High silicone steel still remains the industry standard and exotics will not buy you much of anything % wise in endurance or racing like F1 or Indy… PROVIDING THE MATERIAL IS MAINTAINED AT AN ACCEPTABLE TEMPERATURE typically loses loses of tension that can happen in a race is 20%… which coincides with what can be expected for industrial or over the road conditions… or more rare now-a-days piston driven aircraft and for that this fatigue value along with valve recession sets the limit on overhaul requirements. Most of the engineering now has become routine and computer based nearing AI level of set in stone outside of new material developments.
@@AB-gt5sl Re swirl flaps, yes that's right.
@@danyan7 What's that in English? 😛
Will you be designing a aluminium intake manifold for the M57, and any other plans for upgraded parts for the M57 ?
if they do id buy one. and i dont have an m57
what do you consider high reving m57? I have m57 184hp stock modified to 600hp and 1300 torque stock block and head currently reving to 6500rpm and with room to go for over 700hp (drift build)
Mercedes 606 for the win. Such a lovely engine to look at. Old school analog is much preferred
First class video. Thank you
I had a 335d e92 400hp to wheels with minimal upgrades and it drove fantastic it was a torque monster.
One inlet port does the swirl and the other one does the tumble because swirl is good for tranquillizing the air in the middle of the chamber but it does not flow enough (or so I was told)
if you choose between them, then of course I would choose om 606 for tuning in a Mercedes, since its swap is easier due to the fact that there are no electronics, and the fuel pump is mechanical and can be plugged into any car.
but the M57 is worth tuning and changing if you have a BMW. so it's all clear to me.
well, due to the fact that ohm 606 has a mechanical pump and nozzles, this is its clear advantage, because.
mechanical injectors are very cheap compared to electronic in M57
I love you ❤️ I can't decide which one of these is better for use in my project, hope this video will help me
Thank you for a very nice and informative comparison between two popular diesel engines! Very well done, everything explained in such an easy way for viewers to understand!
So here is my request:
Why not compare more equal common rail engines from the same generation, for example:
- BMW M57 to Mercedes 3222 ccm OM648.
- VW/Audi 2967 ccm 3,0 TDI V6 to Mercedes 2987 ccm OM642 V6.
Yes, I know that you prefer doing mechanical injection diesels for certain reasons but still, it would be very, very, very interesting and sure, we are many viewers who would love seeing that!
Yeeees I agree
at the price of your punp you can get 218hp m57, tuned to 300hp way cheaper and better, also the m57 is comparable to 613/648 not indirect injected 606 that achieves power in high rpms
You should do a comparison of the om606 vs the om648
Arguably the 2 best diesel engines ever made.
That would be the VW 1.9 tdi
@@ma61king nah rd28
Nah, even the LD is better than that
4jj1 and 1KD (3.0 Isuzu 4cyl and 3.0 Toyota D4D) are better.
Om648/om613 > M57 but E46/e92 > w210/211 etc for race.
@@tiagoabreu4107 im a merc fan all day but how is the om648 better than the m57??
Very interesting video! Thank you. 👍
Post the full video, it may run in the background while I work, but it is still interesting:-)
Ability to rev higher is a benefit that outweigh the fuel consumption downside, that and less problems, less parts that break... One day need to see if its doable to put these parts in a toyota 1jz for a diesel conversion or even a RB motor diesel conversion
I would love to see someone break down the n57 and a b57 engine. I am looking to do a swap with one of those.
Very interesting and no I didn't fall asleep. I am weighing up the options for my Defender 2.4tdci not looking for a race car but torque is important off road. Like the simplicity of the OM06 so leaning that way.
emissions will be something to watch out for I expect
Thanks for the comparison. Living in the old colony across the pond I don’t see many diesels like that.
I guess the tear down showed you after three Red Bulls and sucking on a helium balloon to make it less boring. 😂
Would love to see an om603 vs m51
Really enjoy your videos!
I have a 96 E300, any place you would recommend if any in USA for maintenance etc. Having minor issues with bleeding air from fuel lines and Code for P0120. Thank you
Thx for the content! It was very interesting! I heave experienced bouth of the engines plus audi 3 liter diesel and i thik they are durable engines but i find slightly better the m57 because of the fun factor (happiness while driving). Best regards from Croatia!
Mulțumesc anticipat!
Yes, I fell asleep about 15 mins. in. Very interesting comparison.
If you get hold of an N57, I’d be interested to see if the alloy block saves much weight, and if they’ve changed the funky intake ports the M57 used.
The later m57 are Alloy block and weigh 20kg less than the iron m57
When i saw the common rail injectors in the m57 the decision was pretty obvious, mechanical it's better for me
It sounds like the M57 with the valves and their springs being the same. Is simply for "easier" repair and inventory control. 2 items for the m57 as compared to 4 items in the Om606.
Actually having exhaust valves being the same size as intake valves greatly increases exhaust flow and allows spent gases to exit quicker, most companies use the 75% rule as the exhaust valve is 75% of the size of the intake, that makes the exhaust restrictive. All the air in doesn’t matter much if you can’t get it out just as fast to spool up your turbo. It greatly makes the the engine more efficient, I wouldn’t be surprised if the exhaust valves are made of a different alloy verses the intakes cause an exhaust valve sees a lot more abuse in a diesel that the intake valve. I.E. stainless intake, Inconel Exhaust valves. Also possible sodium filled exhaust valve as well to dampen harmonics.
are you going to start making parts for the M57?
Sir, Please release the entire video at normal speed. We don't care how long it is, it has the information we need.
Thank you
Could you upload the M57 teardown in its entirety? I want to be able to do that soon.
I'll be building my ultimate 4x4 vechicle when i finish my current stuff , and i was wondering witch engine i should go for, i like the mechanical pump idea for an apocalypse proof vechicle, but in ireland they are very hard to come by. Now i know it's totally different engine, but would om648 be worth consideration?