Solarpunk in 7 minutes: The case for utopia
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2022
- Some hope at last🌱
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💖Guest appearance by @ChillGoblin!
🎬@Andrewism's take on Solarpunk: • What is Solarpunk?
🎬@OurChangingClimate's take: • Why This Gives Me Hope...
🎬The SolariseCon 2022 conference playlist: • SolariseCon 2022
🌱The manifesto www.re-des.org/a-solarpunk-man...
🌱Solarpunk subreddit: / solarpunk
#breadtube #climatechange #degrowth
I'd be on board with solarpunk for the cool art alone!
Also, thank you for the best shoutout of all time at the end 😂
Solarpunk is sometimes criticized for being based on a manifesto and not a seminal work of fiction, and for having many ideas that were present in previous works. But I think that criticism comes from the punk prefix inviting comparison to cyberpunk. Nobody criticizes transhumanism for there not being a big transhumanist novel to kick it off, and it had a big impact on the imaginations of future generations.
Yep. That's also something we plan to address in the "podcast" video - for now we've just painted it with some broad strokes.
Do people actually care whether or not a movement artistic or political is spawned from fiction or a manifesto? That's seems pretty childish
@@t3essays How do a low-tech and (very) locally society survive against geo-engineering terrorism from the US?
@@vintheguy "That's seems pretty childish"
Welcome to politics on the internet; You just summed up all of twitter.
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell" -edward abbey (one of my favorite novelists and anarchists). Thank you for your videos in English, they are wonderful.
This video is what I needed to awaken real hope, it wasn't long since I discovered the concept of Solarpunk that I fell in love and more than anything I adore how to use Latin America as an example of art, it makes me feel that my country Argentina can reach be just as beautiful, but I'm not going to lie that I also have some doubts that make me insecure
For that same reason I will eagerly await the podcast, hoping to see the full paronama of this concept
Also, sorry for my bad English, it's still hard for me
Estamos muy lejos nosotros desafortunadamente. Nuestro país está lleno de comunistas y socialistas truchos, gente falsa y corrupta. Pero este movimiento es más para la zona rural, donde son comunidades más chicas y unidas, esto no sirve para las ciudades.
Lo que me molesta es que siempre es anticapitalismo y anti naciones, cuando algo así nunca va a existir a menos que logremos convertirnos en una civilización interestelar, y aún así va a haber asociaciones de las que no podamos librarnos.
To anyone reading who doesn't know Spanish, I just wish this movement wasn't so exclusive and utopian, I wish there were more realistic scenarios in which people talked, imagined and discussed about how we could have and create solarpunk communities away from the big cities, since this type of thing will never work I'm big cities like say new york, Tokyo, London, etc.
I'd love to see an stronger movement encouraging (and taking action) people to move away from big cities and start making smaller towns everywhere, even tho that'd mean less diversity of ideas to progress technology, which in turn will cost us highly when climate changes and we don't have any tech to respond to it, or when viruses evolve even more and we just die to pandemics.
Super interesting video! Would love to see more on the topic, especially addressing some of the issues such as the extraction of non-renewable resources that would be needed for a lot of the technology. What would also be interesting is seeing some of the modern day applications that have happened or are being actively worked on
That last bit is coming! But also Andrewism and OCC both did an episode on exactly existing technologies.
Those two channels mentioned do explain and explore on some of that, but it is heavily based in anticapitalism, and they talk about it all the time which makes it obnoxious.
I'd like a more technology and fiction talk about it rather than "capitalism bad" "wage work bad" and instead more on how it would work and such.
In reality, it probably can’t work just yet. The power in decentralization only works for particularly capable people. For those who aren’t so strong to make it, there’s ganging up into big ol culture beasts that can strong arm everyone around them. So they will, and that’s how we get here again.
It’s a tragedy of the commons, and while it’s worth pursuing Solar punk.. realistically, we’re too power hungry of a species. Cultures will form. They will force stupid beliefs on others. They will argue that popularity is a metric of correctness. The race to the bottom will begin again.
@@sephreed1938 Tragedy of commons is a stupid and overused myth that's propped up to serve ideological purpose and masquerades as a scientific paper. The idea came from a thought experiment from a dude who wrote a biology book in favor of "control of breeding" of "genetically defective people" (Hardin 1966: 707). The paper provided no evidence of the tragedy occurring in the real world, and both historical research done by Engels and done after the publication of "The Tragedy of the Commons" refute the idea.
Engels’ account of the “mark,” the form taken by commons-based communities in parts of pre-capitalist Germany:
“[T]he use of arable and meadowlands was under the supervision and direction of the community …
“Just as the share of each member in so much of the mark () as was distributed was of equal size, so was his share also in the use of the ‘common mark.’ The nature of this use was determined by the members of the community as a whole. …
“At fixed times and, if necessary, more frequently, they met in the open air to discuss the affairs of the mark and to sit in judgment upon breaches of regulations and disputes concerning the mark.” (Engels 1892)
“[W]hat existed in fact was not a ‘tragedy of the commons’ but rather a triumph: that for hundreds of years - and perhaps thousands, although written records do not exist to prove the longer era - land was managed successfully by communities.” (Cox 1985: 60)
People were not stupid then and are arguably even less stupid now, they could see the hypothetical events and so they got together to nip that internal problem in the bud. The greatest problems faced by such sorts of communities were at least in some part external.
See: the ClimateandCapitalism article on the subject.
@@sephreed1938 It seems like you're equating decentralization with some notion of anarchism that imagines it as a lawless free-for-all with no organizations whatsoever. Anarchism is an umbrella for a lot of different things but it's emphatically not that.
Anarchism is often criticized for having a lot to say about dismantling things but being too vague on the "then what?" part. And it's a valid criticism. But it's not the deathblow that people think it is. Like, anarchists are aware. That's the hard part, and it's really naive if someone thinks they've come up with the answer on paper. But it's definitely something. A power vacuum isn't what decentralization means and it's definitely not what anarchism is about either.
I know you didn't say the word anarchist, but I've never heard anyone (for or against) describe decentralization like it's Mad Max and I've definitely heard people wrongly describe anarchism exactly that way. It's what I thought anarchism meant when I was 14. For anyone wondering:
> "The power in decentralization only works for particularly capable people. For those who aren’t so strong to make it..."
is the the most un-anarchist thing there is. It's what anarchism is diametrically opposed to: the strong dominating the weak, the use of violence or threat of violence to enforce an unjustified authority. The argument against capitalism is precisely that it is just another form of the same domination and thuggish concentration of power that's been going on forever, just the warlords wear suits and the threat of violence is indirect. You like to not starve to death? Get money. We have lots, you don't. Want some? Get to work.
Anyway, more to the point, it's also not what decentralization means, it's not even the opposite, it's just not even on-topic. Decentralization is about the distribution of power, is it all massed up in a small number of organizations or locations, or is it spread out. That's it. The absence of power isn't part of it any which way.
"Humans are just power-hungry. That's human nature. Nice idea but it'll never work."
Hi, I'm a jobless man from Bihar India and I watched all your videos thoroughly and I love your explanation for reality of crude oil futures, reality of green energy and the Relation with Climate change. In my small town how people are running even myself towards never ending fantasy which is not even a real thing like money I know it's important but it's not everything but we are brain washed by everything like family, friends, movie, news in the name of development... But what can I do people are not listening to me even my parents.
Except that you can't change others and go with the crowd.
@@tanimation7289
Correction:
Accept* that you can't change those who refuse to change even after you've presented your argument & learn as much as you possibly can about what you feel is best for the future of yourself & the world until you can take the action that you wish to take.
@@RuinedTemple That action is excepting oil being used and not act like green energy is a black and white matter.
@@tanimation7289
Again, it's *accepting*, & those who support sustainable & regenerative systems are fully aware that oil is being used, but it doesn't make sense to settle for its use & create systems that are dependent on it.
The point of the matter is that it's a finite resource & there are MANY alternatives that, if utilized correctly, won't contribute to such detrimental effects for the majority of life forms on this planet.
@@RuinedTemple My point is that we can still live with using oil. And besides there is so much in the earth that it will take generations before we could run out of even a fraction of it. Plus it's not that bad for the earth.
Sounds like actually based utilitarianism, maybe minus the spiritualist bit but still pretty rad.
I'm fairly certain that this movement will be moderately co-opted and then completely recuperated however which is quiet depressing but unless people actively make so much of an effort to see it through and persist in it so that it's made less than desirable to attempt setting up a market for it will be recuperated (or hell maybe it'll still happen regardless considering how even extreme anti capitalism is basically straight up sold to you in the modern day)
@Lind Morn
People have made active effort on everything, the fucking cyberpunk movement had tons of people on it.
Just look around, theres TV shows and movies about how corporations are evil man, fight the power literally so many of them that bothering to name any is pointless, there's all the products that tell you that current society is cringe and unstable and that the solution is more equal capitalism, hell we're conversing on a website that literally does nothing to stop people from saying capitalism is bad and puts adds all over it
Nice video! It's always great to see Solarpunk getting more popular!
Really loving this content thanks and wow this editing style is amazing
Solarpunk is very interesting literary movement it is unique and interesting just like any other type of fictions so happy that you guys are covering this
I screenshotted those books you showed early in the video, so now I have a reading list! Thanks for the video, it's very interesting stuff!
This was so eye opening omng, thank you.
This sounds so inspiring!
Can't wait for the long podcast episode!
This video was certainly interesting on a topic I honestly haven't had heard much on. And it definitely sounds like a concept that should get more fiction works in order to make it more known cause a possible happy future is a nice change change of pace
Great video ! Can't wait for the 12-times-longer video about this
Not a joke, I liked your long videos !
Amazing videos and amazing channel! And Polish one as well! And presented with such thorough and intelligent way, you guys are true heirs of Stanislaw Lem!
I find some irony in solarpunk videos using Castle in the Sky (1986) frames and fanart as illustrations, since the movie itself is quite doomer on the issue - the solarpunk that is shown is explicitly possible in the world without humans, because humans are portrayed as too restless and power-hungry to coexist with it. Although this was not Miyazaki's final judgement on the issue of utopias
I think solarpunk could use it's own burning man party to get known for or something 🤔
Alternative Energy Zone at Burning Man - we had a SolarPunk theme camp there this year with an impressive solar arrray re-charging things for people.
It's a fun setting, but we should be wary of optimistic hopium which primarily lulls instead of achieving the inspiration iit sets out to develop. Harsh reality of what's coming seems to be the best motivator for inspiring movements.
There have been an absolute plethora of post apocalyptic stakes on fiction, in particular related to, or acting as analogues of, climate change. These seem to either inspire doomer BS or nothing at all.
I’d rather have a goal to work towards personally.
@@wempletun8218 I agree. People need to see possibilities to dream and foster them into fruition.
I think its a balancing act. Too much brutal reality results in doomerism and hopelessness. I mean who wants to try when it seems the problem is so massive its unable to be solved?
But at the same time, too much hopium causes us to just believe that itll all sort itself out.
Personally I'm going into environmental science
@@n4ttyyy good take and good job!
It only lulls those who don't want to or don't think they can participate in the movement or lifestyle that has the potential to be born from the idea.
Most people who are acutely aware of our situation can already see that there's a huge difference between the world today & a solarpunk future, & futures of human society that differ from the present so drastically in a positive, thriving, sustainable, regenerative, resilient direction don't magically create themselves.
Great video as always! I shall comment for the algorithm.
Wow people were right. This does actually give me hope for us as a species!
My new favourite art and all movement and phylosophy.
This is certainly a breath of fresh air against doomerism.
Parabolic mirrors can be used to melt and dope silicone, and can be used in conjunction with crystals, polarized filters and the like. It also can be used to heat water and run steam punk stuff to a limited degree.
the way u present ideas and the research you put into your videos are amazing, will you do videos on other topics other than the climate?
Well, one of the reasons the research is so good is that we're familiar with this field. But if we run out of ideas, or find something else, then perhaps. Atm we still feel that this king of climate thought is sorely lacking on YT.
I've never looked too much into solarpunk, I have a few ideas but my doomer mindset makes me read a lot of cyberpunk books. The first few minutes of this video made me realize that we need a William Gibson of solarrpunk, it's really needed right now. I'll try to read some of the first books you mentioned though, just to have a clearer idea.
I think you could talk a bit about the actual practical examples how people organize a bit. We just seem to be really isolated nowadays so it seems to be difficult to organize.
Blessed content
I'm struggling to understand this idea.
Just the same as the ideas you countered in your Kurzgesagt video hinge on believing , "I know technology got us into this mess, but trust in technology to get us out of this, we're smarter than we were before!"
This seems to hinge on a belief of "I know our economic system got us into this mess, but trust in our new economic system to get us out of this, we're smarter than we were before!"
I am struggling to imagine a world where we maintain a society that fits solarpunk ideals. I seem to have a very pessimistic belief that what we have now is the natural result of the human condition rather than just one possible outcome of human society. Is there reason why I am wrong about this? I need to break away from this idea before seeing anything like this as wishful thinking. I really don't want to be a doomer, so please change my mind.
I understand how you feel. Maybe the concept art shown wasn't the best representation but "tech" part is not high-tech, just simple old or new technology repurposed in a DIY style. It is not "¡Buy this new eco-mega-friendly evironment saviour machine!", it's more like "this youtube video teaches you how to make eco-thing with scrap and $1" but massive scale.
So less buying more learn to do. This should also be acompanied with better urban design choices like no cars. I would love to see a return of manufacturation a low scale (not factory labour).
I hope change your mind, I am a little doomer myself and I'm only grasping this solarpunk thing like yesterday 😅so I'm just asumming this things. I just wanna little hope. Sorry for possible writing erros I'm not an english speaker.
How exactly is this all supposed to work?
All this tech needs to be produced and mantained, it requires factories, shipping, massive logistical networks.
Just because something looks nice does not mean it is not expensive and hard to do. All of those working robots?
Do you think you can do it in a shed?
Such future could only be possible if earth moved all of its heavy production of world and become a space faring civilisation which spreads across the solar system and basically treats earth as a vacation spot so citizens can actually feel the wind on their face and have a bit of time of.
Algorithm, algorhythm, algo go-go-go! GOOD WORK!
As someone deeply invested in cyberpunk as a literary genre, I feel like its "punkness" has been thrown to the side and it has been turned purely into an aesthetic. Even the commonly found critique of monopolization is just kind of there, but with barely any substance besides "this sucks". I feel like cyberpunk can still be punk if done right and the genre deserves and needs it. If solarpunk wants to stay true to itself it needs to hold onto the punk and anti-capitalist messaging with an iron grip or it'll be defiled by said capitalists like cyberpunk has been by media such as Cyberpunk 2077, which is antithetical to the genre it supposed gets its name from. If you want to call yourself punk, you got to be PUNK and you need make sure you stay punk.
Cyberpunk simply went the development of punk or any kind of "subversive" subculture or counter culture, it became wholly engrained into the machine; sanitized, commodified, and sold for profit. It's an inescapable dynamic
Only thing I wonder is why Solarpunk? What about the same aesthetics but with something like modernnucleartechnologypunk? Less of a ring I know, but still very green and if we build it in the right place with technology not from 1977 (CNPP) it'd be grand.
Cool video
The shout-outs to other creators is very appreciated, let's keep building communities together!
Like for the Disco Elysium meme! (and for dissing JBP, and the amazing intro to Solar punk I guess)
Mocking him isn't special anymore, fairly certain many on the far right do it to at this point
@@vintheguy In a way, that's a good thing, since the anti-JBP Overton Window is moving in our favor
Hauntology is such an interesting subject to me. It does make me feel a tad guilty for loving vapourwave as a genre and the whole 80s/90s/early 2000s aesthetic but I don't think stuff like that is attempting to glorify the consumer culture of those times it just likes the way it looks and sounds, it's just skin deep.
Not that relevant to the video, but I'm currently in the process of fighting Senator Armstrong, so that nanomachines joke got me
Here, have some hope. It has some problems still needing solutions, but way better then what we have. If you ask me
I really enjoy this idea and perspective of looking at the world from within Solarpunk, but I don't really get how this will come about without greenwashed capitalism existing in parallel to solarpunk, or even worse: greenwashed capitalism fully conquers solarpunk, or greenwashed capitalism steals most of the ideas from solarpunk, and pretends to be solarpunk. There's a sort of new word for this that i can't remember right now: when some ideology steals ideas from another ideology and uses them for their own benefit. 4:40 YOU SAID THE WORD. "Recuperated" thank you. I should really watch the entire video before commenting. lol
Great video btw. I look forward to every video you guys release in English. I'll try to listen & watch in Polish too. The problem for me is that I'm watching & listening from work, so it's hard for me to read subtitles. Much love from San Rafael, CA.
I think that's why solarpunk is going to have to get more expressly political in both rhetoric and art, because greenwashing is definitely starting to become a thing and the only way to avoid it is to clearly differentiate ourselves from the current system. Perhaps we need more art about destroying or recycling the current system.
@@Paraselene_Tao It's better if you watch the English ones and recommend the Polish ones to your Polish friends.
@@Rolando_Cueva
🤣 I need Polish friends.
The real solarpunk was the friends we made along the way
I don't need AI to visualizes cretaceous period as "Solarpunk Lord of the Rings"
I hope to one day get some good purposeful solarpunk anime. 😄 that would be awesome.
In the meantime it is my goal to work on a a methodology of incorporating solarpunk ideals with a more concrete material and political analysis as we are pretty thin on the ground there.
And I do art some times though I am not very good so maybe some soviet style solarpunk future posters are a possibility.
Anyhow, loved the video please continue to do what you do. ✊️
Super cool video! I've been working on the topic of Human x Nature interaction for my masters thesis and noticed that in the academic world there is still little to find about solarpunk. These videos make the topic way more approachable and recognizable! Love this English expansion to your channel!
What solarpunk needs to know is that as long as they and everyone else have their "means of subsistence" provided by outside suppliers, whether they be big government or big business, then these outside suppliers own and control them and they are their, obedient, compliant slaves. They control their thoughts, beliefs, values, decisions, actions and their votes! So, the solution is obvious, before any transformational change can occur, individuals and groups of individuals must place their entire means of substance under their own control. This will make the external providers redundant and powerless to oppose change.
What is your "means of subsistence" (MOS) and how do you put it under your own control? Your MOS is everything that you need to live, be healthy and thrive. Your MOS includes much more than food, clothing and shelter. Everyone's MOS is different and NO ONE (even myself, and I lived on an off-the-grid permaculture homestead in the middle of the National Forest for over a decade), can do it all by themselves, so you need to create a mutual aid network so that, collectively, you are independent of outside providers and mutually interdependent upon your like-minded solarpunk group for subsistence. Next, consider the MOS for the entire group, what does it need to survive. Secure the MOS for the group by forming mutual aid networks between groups. Once that is secured, do the same for the collection of groups. And so on and so on, scalable to the entire Earth and to the universe as a whole! THAT is how it is done. I've waited a lifetime for people to catch up to me and now people like you are waking up. Great. Let's get started on making a bright solarpunk world a REALITY!
I thought writing a solarpunk manifesto was a riddiculus idea untill I saw a cyberpunk manifesto
Give me Solarpunk, or give me death!
Well honestly this future seems rather too optimistic, I'm not sure of how we could achieve this and I still believe that nuclear power should be used in the future due to its potential despite some of its problems and the bad public image people has from it due to ignorance
Nuclear energy is so much safer than fossil fuels. It only becomes dangerous via neglect and human error.
@@Foogi9000 With neglect you mean public opinion? Anyways, nuclear reactors not only are completely handled by humans, they also have their own safety measures in case anything happens
Make solarpunk utopian future strong
Don't mind me just engaging the algorithm
Thank you for a throughout guide to why i should avoid this genre like a plague. Good video.
Why tho? Is it the optimism of it all? Is it because it seems shaky at its foundations? Is it because you believe there is a better approach to our current situation? Tell us
@@balck1123 Optimistic and clean utopia where everyone is good and cooperative. Yes, shaky foundations do play a major role. It's pretty much "wooahh man, imagine if everyone was, like, good, and tech savy, and, like, got along man".
It's a nice future to live in, but it's a shitty future to read about, i just cant imagine it working as described.
1. I really don't like The solarpunk style. Especially I dont (for The lavk of a better term) Vibe with The latin culture or Black peoples culture.
I prefer something More dim and colder in color. Darker shades of blue, mixed with white and red.
But we need smthg ligther sometimes. Oh well.
2. If IT IS The way forward so be itz Even tho I despise The sun. (I AM weak to temp. Beyond 23-25 degrees range. 25 IS my max so that's personal).
I just Hope we would start building beautifull buildings once again. And not like now.
3. IT's all personal. But I still stand by it
what is the name of the movie or series showed at min 6.55 for example?
To be honest I struggle to differentiate between solar punk and "The cool glass buildings" just by looking at 2 paintings/pictures/pieces of art. Sure when the contest is provided it's easy but without it I find it difficult
it usually boils down to asking yourself if what you see is sustainable and truly harmless to nature or is it totally not, and it just pretends to be
@@fyu1945 there's nothing about those glass buildings that prevents them from being genuinely harmless.
@@fellinuxvi3541 glass has to come from somewhere along with concrete and the soil that’s taken for the trees on all over the buildings.
An actual solarpunk example would be to repurpose existing structures that are abandoned and new structures have to be built with the means to guard nature. As solarpunk is about being the custodian of the planet
@@AzureScintillae Green infrastructure actually requires a lot of rebuilding anyways, you can't build a green future by repurposing the terrible architecture and urban planning of places like north america.
And even then, by that same logic, you could repurpose the existing glass buildings (which there are plenty of in the modern day) to make your solar punk future.
@@fellinuxvi3541 i see your point
2:32 i know its for ilustration but, so far as i know Martin from wintergaten looks up to Elon and the like
I think onearmy does a good job at embodying the solarpunk spirit
i think solarpunk and cottagecore can work togetter well
its good Concept art for inspiring the future and the now
Awesome video.
Though, could I request the source(s) on what you said about I guess it was vertical gardening in 3:20 ? I'd be interested in the environmental costs of it as I'm researching this stuff for school.
Greetings!
I don’t have a source, but I hear very often that creating concrete has a high carbon emission cost, so we need to stay away from using it wide-scale
@@brandonm1708 Okay, thanks for the info!
Though, what about planting plants onto already used concrete?
@@toolbox6228 what exactly do you mean by “already used concrete”?
@@brandonm1708 Already with concrete constructed buildings. Certainly these CO2 emissions you mentioned are released in the process of making the concrete. So, what about the deficits of using let's say vertical gardening on these buildings, on this "already used concrete"? Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker so it's kinda hard for me to express myself hahaha
@@toolbox6228 you’re all good! I think that could be a good idea- turning abandoned office buildings into vertical farms. I think for now the main problem is making sure you have enough energy and that it’s renewable, so you’re not causing harm through the energy consumption.
Also we the mnsestery for the futer
What about ownership of the means of production?
Does solarpunk have a guy who takes 90% results of your labor just because of abstract ownership on something?
Да понятное дело, что никак это с коммунизмом и марксизмом это не связано)
Обыкновенная субкультура для тусовочки, а не для политических достижений. Лично для меня эти ребята являются невероятным разочарованием, ведь видя проблемы капитализма пришли не к коммунизму, а как раз таки к какому-то эскапизму через искусство и бесполезный "активизм"..
@@mori7423, активизм - это когда идёт копротивление ради копротивления, те какая-то акция которая всем показывает как вы сопротивляетесь кровавому РЕЖИМУ, но которая ни как не приближает то светлое будущее, которое вы рисуете. Например, это ситуация, когда часть отечественных левых, осудив СВО, с криками "рашка-парашка" побежала заграницу к либералам под крылышко.
На этом же канале я ни каких акций пока не видел. Наоборот, в их следующем видео дана теория которая объясняет, то что не могут объяснить наши марксисты. Например, когда я спрашивал наших, мол чего такого волшебного в человеке, что только он создаёт добавочную стоимость, а машина которая за него всё фактически делает не создаёт? Мне ничего внятного не ответили и только 10 раз зачитали мантру, мол чилавек саздаёт патамушта в священном писании у нас так сказано, а машина просто переносит свою стоимость. Так и не ответив на мой вопрос: ПОЧЕМУ ТАК?
В теории же, что продвигается на этом канале, допускается эксплуатация неодушевлённых объектов (почвы, биосферы), а следовательно нет в человеке того необъяснимого и исключительного волшебного волшебства по созданию прибавочной стоимости.
@@anonimanonimov3251 машина\cтанок\инструмент\завод не может создавать прибавочную стоимость без человека так как без человека (т.е рабочего) машинлой невозможно будет оперировать, установить её, обслуживать её и даже её создать. Если же Мы представим сферического коня в вакууме в виде машины, которая работает полностью без помощи рабочего, то прибавочная стоимость продукта действительно является лишь переносом стоимости машины и используемого материала, так как у машины есть, например, износ и рано или поздно свой ресурс машина исчепрает. Цена же формируется по законам рынка и может быть выше стоимости товара.
Надеюсь понятно объяснил.
@@mori7423, вы опять повторили мантру про перенос без разъяснения самого механизма. Я же не могу понять ситуацию, когда марксисты громогласно провозглашают себя материалистами, но при этом человек у них занимает какое-то богоизбранное отдельное ото всей остальной природы положение без, какого-либо материального базиса за этим.
Давайте я разложу этот большой вопрос на несколько более мелких простых:
1) Как утверждает современная наука человек - это животное, такое же как и любое другое. Почему марксисты не признают за другими животными возможности создавать прибавочной стоимости?
2) Как утверждает та же наука жизнь - это просто химический механизм: сначала были молекулы которые самокопировались ради самокопирования, мутируя они запечатали себя в пузыри-клетки, а потом пузыри сбились в колонии. И человек как частной случай данной РНК пенки - это такой же механизм. Почему якобы материалисты марксисты игнорируют этот научный факт и она машина человек у них играет по одним правилам, а остальные машины по другим?
3) У человека так же можно посчитать износ, затраты на его изготовление и работает от так же не вечно. Например, поймать и привезти негра в америку стоит столько-то, а на миске бобов в день он проживёт столько-то. Создают ли рабы прибавочную стоимость? Тоже самое высчитать можно и для формально свободного человека.
4) Бывает так что буржуй станки не покупает а берёт в лизинг, те словно ежемесячно платит станкам зарплату. Чем для буржуя эти станки отличаются от работников в процессе производства?
5) Не за горами ситуация когда интеллект машин сравняется или даже превзойдёт человеческий. Будем ли мы тогда говорить что это машины создают прибавочный продукт, а мясные мешки просто переносят стоимость своего изготовления и эксплуатации на продукт?
@@anonimanonimov3251 Какую мантру? Привел пример и причины, дальше твою пасту не читал
The guy from Wintergatan shown as an example of Solarpunk is so ironic, he sucks up to Elon Musk SO HARD.
The optimism of solarpunk is certainly welcoming, but the biggest thing I ask myself when looking at this is: How are we going to abolish our current economic system, rebuild like 90% of cities, and incorporate all of the elements of solarpunk into our current world? I don't mean to be a doomer but it really is a daunting task that I don't imagine could be easily accomplished in a timely manner.
Not only that but we need to reopen new lithium mines for the frikin ebic solar panels.
I wonder where they get the metal to build all the solar panels
I think it's compressed corn or cotton? Am unsure read something like that before
@@connorschultz380 right of course, corn is well known for its usefulness as a semi-conductor and its ability to be turned into wires.
@@mrossknedxdd were are the lithium mines
Can anyone point me to the audio clip source at 1:09?
I know it's the manifesto, I'm interested in the audio.
Many thanks!
Ps I absolutely loved the long podcast video on this topic elsewhere on this channel
Imagine a cybersolarpunk. Genetic splicing is the norm. We can worth with and change nature.
Based
Do More is proper pronunciation and description.
Given they are Polish I would not stumble too much on their pronunciation. I mean, we all know what he means with "kahnser" (in that quote on growth for the sake of growth).
Would you say Solarpunk if vegan or mainly plant based?
Solarpunk needs to strongly promote liberty and strongly condemn simple hedonism and for gosh sake, they need to open their mouths and point out the difference to others! What is the difference? Big difference! Liberty, per Lord Acton, is the freedom to act ethically and responsibly, in accordance with your conscience to do as you OUGHT. In marked contrast, Simple hedonism is the freedom to act unethically and irresponsibly, to do whatever you desire, regardless of the harm that this might cause to other humans or to other species living on our planet. In a closed system with finite resources ONLY LIBERTY is ethically possible. THAT logical fact needs to be pointed out!
If Solarpunk hates commercialism, where would they get the metals, chips, wires, tools, tires, panels, turbines, etc.? If they get sick do they pay the doctor with tomatoes? Ssince business and employment would be abolished, would producing food and eating be their primary goal in life?
- If solar punk tries to be realistic, why is it so hard to find art of a solarpunk village in a snow storm, or normal storm, or even just a cloudy weather or a mild rain? It really looks like it is biased towards ideal conditions, which is very unrealistic.
- Does solarpunk allow for wood/coal burning in winter? When the sun is not shining, water frozen and wind not blowing? Or does it expect big energy storages? Or do you just suffer through the cold?
- What about dry climates? They are underrepresented in the solarpunk art. Maybe it expects people to just move somewhere else? Food export/import is kind of against the self-sufficient idea. Or maybe there's a fictional solution that would somehow solve the shortcomings of different climates and make them all lush green.
I mean, all punk styles are provocative, and solarpunk definitely succeeded in this regard. I will definitely continue thinking about it from now on.
It sounds very nice, almost like the best derection towards good future we have. I'm just sceptical.
As a fiction/philosophy/art direction, it is great. I'm just not sure how politically viable as a movement it is. I want a movement to be seen as hopeful, but I don't want it to be seen as naive.
Would you believe me there are?
comment for the algo!
Love your humour >D
I love your guy's content. Unfortunately it seems your other two videos, as important as they are, do not favor with the youtube algorithm as well as the first video which responded to kurtzgeznauszteestaz. Anyway, I love Solarpunk and the philosophy you guys do, unfortunately I feel like its a lot harder to promote and advocate for these ideas since they are so abstract and have very little general public understanding. My 2 cents is to provide counter arguments and alternatives to popular media and solutions. This philosophy is a way of reasoning. I really think you guys could grow by simply taking those reasons and applying them to pretty much every single youtube video out there that talks about this stuff. This way you still sell the solarpunk anti individualism narrative, but in a way that is less abstract and more relatable to people. If you keep asking the same questions and using the same criticisms to people's favorite content creators, people click on your videos with the intention of a negative take on ____, and (consciously or subconsciously) end it with a positive take on the anthroposcene and solarpunk. Anyway, I've never made a youtube channel so who knows what this comment is worth. Love you guys and your memes (hot take, using titles like "how cnn, fox news, msnbc, etc all make the same climate mistakes" crams those vids with buzz words, names that are already familiar, and enough ambiguity that they don't know what they're being fed until its too late.
Give me the book recommendations in a list
A utopian view, I’ve never seen that go wrong before…
for any of those SolarPunk visions - The Comment - We could have had all of this Except Mom and Dad Liked Reagan for some Reason'
would you concider "green anarcho-communism" and "degrowth" contraditions? Sure, degrowth is quite unspecific in turns of concrete politics, but anything seriously "green" has to be anti-growth.
Maybe I don't know enough about what these terms mean in detail. Can someone fill in my blanks?
Well, the thing about it is that you have to define growth to begin with, Unlearning Economics has an excellent video on the topic. It's called the case for a green new deal, and speaks of the green growth / degrowth debate.
I'm all for solarpunk, equal rights and all that, but I can't lie that I'm sad that religion somewhat falls by the wayside. As a christian, it's hard for me to cope with, but ah well, it is what it is.
I have strong doubts that this could ever come to pass due to flaws in human nature but I appreciate the polite exposition of an appealing ideology that I had not previously heard of - would love to vote someone like you into a political office, had I the opportunity.
Damn you really missed the point huh
I love alot of the aesthetics and ideas of solarpunk but am not even leftist like 90% of the followers seem to be. I wish i could find more love for this on both sides
Find a different movement then, you can't remove that aspect from solarpunk its apart of its identity.
@@lewisbaitup6352 sure, but I'll always say that this movement kinda inspired me. In that sense, it'll always he a part of my own political journey
@@wyattwilbourne530 cool
@@wyattwilbourne530 this is an exceptionally bizarre thing to read.
@@Volsraphel how so? Is it impossible to take after ideas you don't 100% agree with?
Solarpunk is severely limiting it's appeal by making anti-capitalism central. If the goal is to recruit people to a vision of a clean-energy future, it should be obvious that anti-capitalism will severely restrict interest in and funding for the required infrastructure. Clean energy is already on the rise, because it is affordable and profitable. Anti-capitalism, if it is viable, is a much longer-term project.
Funny thing is that there is nothing inherently wrong with the capitalist ideals, just the humanity behind it, we twist and corrupt all the good out of any ideals or aspirations, because of how we are built. So personally you can believe in any movement or societal structure but I fully believe in time it will be twisted to it’s extremes if we dare not see the pros of the opposite ideals as much as we see the pros of our own ideals
Cool fiction though I suppose
seems like solarpunk requires individuals to have thousands of times more property than we do now.
cyberpunk is not possible, it is a contradiction in words. solarpunk makes much more sense.
So, is Solarpunk kinda like what the end credits sequence of Wall-E, showing us what happened the people that returned to Earth?
The only fear I have about this all is that it can easily fall into an extremist perspective. But still, I really like it.
Oh no! The extremists are kicking down our doors to **checks notes** take care of us all unconditionally in a way that doesn't cause climate catastrophe. Whatever shall we do??
@@Salsmachev I think he is talking about eco-terrorism
@@dudenamedecho I mean, to the extent that "eco-terrorism" is a polemical term used by Liberals to describe revolutionary violence and property destruction against the bourgeoisie, I'm still really not concerned with it.
To the extent that eco-terrorism is performative and actually environmentally destructive, and therefore worth condemning, Solarpunk seems to promote an attitude in direct opposition to that.
@@Salsmachev just think of how some extreme vegans act and then you might see what I’m talking about. Extremism is always bad; too good of a good thing is still bad. Extremists in this would definitely not take care of you, but rather harm you one way or another.
@@MrReset94 I don't see why you'd fear too much of a good thing when you're currently living under a substantial amount of a bad thing. And in this case, I'm not convinced that "too much solarpunk" is a possibility, considering that solarpunk is specifically against growth for growth's sake. An excess of solarpunk would no longer be solarpunk at all.
Solarpunk always looks nice and warm.
How does it work in the Arctic, or very cold countries?
Theyre pretty much the same, they dont usually put too much strain on the environment other than oil fracking and coal plants
I hate how all utopian plans necessarily requires it for everyone to unconditionally agree on following one ideology like a fucking religion
Exactly kek
What ideology? We all have to agree on certain rules these are callef laws its nothing new you high school drop out
@@TheYolo20 the problem is the degree you dingus, i see a bunch of pirates easly taking a solarpunk society just for the cultural differences alone i the owners of the lithium mines being the ones at power and controlling resources giving how many solar power this society needs. There is still a monopoly and human greed on this so everyone who steps out of the line is going to explode othere more easy than currently they would have.
This idea is unachievable by the means of capitalistic democracy and doesn't answer the most important problems of capitalism itself.
All this sounds like a fantasy and an attempt at escapism through art and meaningless "activism" which only serves the purpose of calming your mind but not achieving any progress.
Overall I still like your approach to thing with philosophical point of view as well as rejecting progress for the sake of progress.
♥️☭
Hi. I don’t think we’re going to solve the climate crisis, Vids like these are great but sadly never get much attention. I think there are too many other problems in the world and even if there weren’t I wouldn’t have much hope for the Climate crisis. I can explain further on request. Just wanted to let you know this because I actually „voted“ for you to publish the video.
and this is exactly doomerism he was talking about
The Climate Behemoth scenario is looking more and more likely these days. (Climate Leviathan is a work of political theory about what forms future governments might transform into due to accelerating climate change. HIghly recommended)
@@fyu1945 Climate Optimism drives lulled apathy. Climate Doomerism inspires mass direct action.
@@OccultDemonCassette either that or it just makes people giving up and prepare for an end
@@OccultDemonCassette Doomerism is literally apathy by definition. Of course blind optimism like eco-modernism also doesn't help. Only those who believe in the possibility of change, will take part in direct action. I don't know if belief in the possibility of change is what you describe as climate optimism, but either way it's essential for taking action. Doomers will not take part because they don't believe that their actions can change anything. If someone is taking action, then he is not a doomer.
Whoa there!!.... I was part of the hippie movement and I haven't been "absorbed" or coopted by capitalism and conservatism. Quite the contrary. The zip code of one's birth is far more determinative of socioeconomic status than education or ability. During my life I've been a bartender, web developer - immediately before the late 90's early 2000's collapse of web based business in Seattle, only to be ignored after the recovery because of agism, and I've been an auto mechanic. What I've been MOSTLY is patiently waiting for more people to come to the conclusion that I came to long ago....capitalism only works for capitalists, and eventually it won't work for then either. In other words, I've been waiting for what is currently called the "degrowth" movement to materialise. Apparently I'm not that persuasive.
Just sayin' - not all (late) boomers suck....true, many do, but not all.
Anyway, I'm glad I found your channel as well as all the others I've discovered through you and through andruism. Thank you.
Love in your life for Jesus is love and love is life in the grace of our savior.
Yeah, unfortunately it won't work.
Sounds like some utopian socialism / anarchism. Aren't we supposed to leverage big industrial centralised and socialised production, because that's what the socialist society will inherit from capitalism? Maybe I misunderstood, but solarpunk is based on decentralisation and small DIY production, basically petty bourgeoui socialism because it tries to revert history production-wise. How are these new solarpunk communities gonna compete with big capitalist monopols or defend themselves against imperialists? Here I'm not using "compete" in the classical meaning of the word, but the big majority of the people will prefer the old way of life instead of the solarpunk way simply because the "comforts" provided by capitalism: same-day shipping, McDonalds, supermarkets, etc?? Why do a thing myself when a group of people at a factory have 100X the productivity?? Small scale and home production only wastes time and keeps us slaves to work. We can only liberate ourselves when all work is socialised (even household work) and the working day has been reduced to such a degree as to not be a burden anymore and to allow us to use the rest of the time for personal development and recreational activities. I might be biased because I'm a dirty commie, feel free to discuss.
Anyways, good video and good explanation as always. You guys are great, keep it up!
Yeah the dudes ideology isnt very coherent, a lot of petty bourgeois "socialism" as you said. Apparently workers arent the vanguard of the revolution, intellectuals are lol (Herbert Marcuse CIA moment). Everything here is about artists and intellectuals and their cool art and theories, everything is about individuality. No mention of the people who actually allow these artists to produce their art and theories by manufacturing their paper and paint, the workers. No economic analysis besides a vague "capitalism bad", or post capitalism, as the Solarpunk manifesto puts it, as if capitalism can somehow be "transcended" just by changing our lifestyle lol. No analysis of states, apparently we can just will states away by creating "decentralized DIY communes". Also apparently individual people can create high quality tech in their garage by themselves, who needs a factory right, you can just "DIY" stupid. Those stupid workers at the assembly line, they are just not creative enough to create solarpunk in their garage apparently lmfao.
5:13 wait, but couldnt the "solarpunk" scenario be achieved by a communist revolution? at least myself, i see communism and solarpunk working together very well
I think he was mainly suggesting that most alternative singular communities proposed by for example hippies (communism or other veiws) are very fragile and difficult to establish or maintain and due to solarpunk being fairly destabilised in the political compass it can suit many different forms of politics only requiring more if a tribal technology sharing, open, and nature based lifestyle not to say all aspects of capitalism or any political standpoint have to be given up also Not to say your view on communism is not a contender in a nation of a solarpunk world as much as it is in a world like todays. At least that's what I understood sorry for any misspells or anythin I'm really tired rn, but have a nice day :)
@@Biggoose_ of course, but still, i'd argue that political progress is required to achieve solarpunk (also said in the video), but that means that some other political system would be required for thing to function and even if we jump to "tribal technology sharing, open, and nature based community" isnt that still communism at its final stage?
@@lukeskalwolkerYou're right political progress is absolutely required I suppose that could be in form of a Communist revolution I would personally argue that when communism is forced it dosent work though neither does capitalism it always falls on the selfishness, predudice or demotivation of humans in capitalism or communism so the nations still could have heirarchy, monarchy a parliment, or capitalism at its bare bones in different nations across the world. I think what he must of meant is that the hippie movement is different to solarpunk due to it not being bound to communism making it less fickle, possible for ALL nations across the world and more promising.
@@Biggoose_ actually, communism isnt about taking the "throne" (i assumed you think this, because you started about selfishness) but about destroying it, final goal of communism is to have mostly anarchist society (adam something's video on "anarcho-capitalism part 3" gives a good example (he isnt exactly correct about the tankies though)
now why else communism wouldnt work? because this goal cant easily be achieved? well, there are probably many ways, but i will focus on 2 for now, these lead into;
communism; achieved by progress that would be made in socialism (now, socialism is a bit more sensitive to corruption and political paranoia, but still can thrive, for its adaptable to various situations while still being classified as "socialism")
and
anarcho-communsim; which is just communism, achieved by anarchist means rather than socialism (as much as i heard from people supporting this, they said they would do exactly the same as communists would, but instead of socialism, they would somehow develop society through anarchy)
i dont see why this wouldnt work
@@lukeskalwolker When I said selfishness I mainly meant in the sense of work ethic once established but your take on anarcho capitalism is very interesting and does limit the issues a governed Communist state would have like in stalinisms case, any point that prioritises nature with technology kept in line with it on the political compass should work so I would guess most Auth right or lib left suit solarpunk.
I love all the youtube commies, like you can make a living in communist society being a content creator. Do you know how exploitative being a youtuber is? Who is gonna run the server that is damaging to environment? Who is gonna pay for advertisement? let's not talk about donations from other people, E-begging if you will. Also any false information has a consequence to the world, and in communist society you will straight get censored if you say anything against communism. And all that is already exploiting the "communist" viewers for money in of itself, what a joke.
This comment was so obviously written in bad faith, the exact opposite of the assertion you made about the consequences of false information and censorship under socialism happened in Chile czcams.com/video/RJLA2_Ho7X0/video.html
Also czcams.com/video/u5NM68BTpSk/video.html
czcams.com/video/HPQLuyM-i3A/video.html
@@Srijit1946 I don't really want to be a keyboard warrior, I don't care about the videos you linked, and sure I am dodging your arguments. But what makes me dislike communism is it's similarity with religion, both systems believe itself to be perfect which doesn't accept any criticism of itself, unlike them capitalism knows itself to be flawed and believe me the world we live in sucks shit but that's how it's always been and until some crazy technology brings us to post-scarcity society communism is not possible. I hate people suffering but it's not like there is a magical cure for it, people are gonna exploit each other no matter what, and that's corruption. Communism doesn't address the core problem that is corruption, and the problem of the world all roots from corruption not capitalism.
Ultimately those are my opinions, and for a time I believed communism could work, but I realized we live in reality not long after. I do not want to continue to argue since there isn't a good feedback opportunity to prove neither your opinion nor mine.
@@Zex-4729 And yet you did, you could have just not respond and ignore my reply if you really didn't want to be a keyboard warrior, and of course you don't care about them, ignorance is fundamental to conservatism.
Communism doesn't "believe itself to be perfect" nor does it reject criticism, the thing is these same old tired anti-communist talking points aren't "criticisms" but thought-terminating cliches and knee-jerk reactions. What I dislike about this vitriolic and dogmatic anti-communism is its similarly with religion, so much so that it even led people to support fascists and nazis a century ago in reaction to the rising popularity of communism.
>"Capitalism knows itself to be flawed"
>goes to on blame all of the world's problems on corruption and claim capitalism isn't responsible for them, thus undermining his own point and pretending as if privately owned businesses caring only about profit maximisation doesn't incentivize that corruption and the "lobbying" (read:bribing) of politicians to implement policies which serves the material interests of big businesses. The notion that "capitalism knows itself to be flawed" isn't true, the existence of so many self-proclaimed right-"libertarians" and "anarcho"-capitalists who don't acknowledge the flaws of capitalism and blame the government for everything bad refutes this statement, not to mention so many conservatives who deny the fact that modern day Russia is a capitalist oligarchy and unironically think & say that Russia today is still socialist/communist because Putin was a former KGB member, as if people don't change their political positions & Putin hasn't been an outspoken anti-communist since coming to power.
"the world we live in sucks shit but that's how it's always been" this is sophistry, Europe sucked far more 6 centuries ago when feudalism was the dominant mode of production, India sucked far more just a century ago when it was a British colony, life sucked far more in the Russian empire than in USSR by the 1950s, and it started sucking alot more for many former Soviet states (with some exceptions like the Baltics, Czech, etc of course) after the shock therapy was imposed on them to fully and quickly restore capitalism (which caused the largest non-war drop in quality of life in human history), life sucked alot more in the Scandinavian countries a century & a half ago, life sucked orders of magnitudes more in China in the late 1940s when it was a largely agrarian, war-torn country than in China by the 1970s and continued to improve more and more in the last 4 decades since it embraced a hybrid *state-led* market economic model (with massive state spending, and regulations, interventions and restrictions in the market economy. Btw fun fact, did you know that Milton Friedman thought Deng Xiaoping's reforms would fail because Deng believed in gradualism and a state-led market economy, Friedman, of course as always, couldn't be more wrong, if only he understood basic and advanced economics. We saw what happened in Russia after the shock therapy was imposed on them, creating the free-est markets in history which incentivized and caused political and economic corruption to skyrocket, the shock therapy was recommended by economists which were considered to be the most 'scientific' in the west).
I reject the notion that "people are always gonna exploit each other no matter what", it's an incredibly cynical, reductionist and wrong way of looking at and thinking about humanity, no wonder it's a conservative truism. In Capital, his rigorous critique (and wholly unique analysis at that time) of the political economy of capitalism, Marx assumed the perfect free market utopian society as described by capitalist economists like Adam Smith, he then showed exactly why and how the logic of capitalism causes the problems we see in capitalist societies. The first documentary I linked on Project CyberSyn & The CIA Coup in Chile kind of does "address the core problem that is corruption", and 1Dime's short documentary talks about scarcity, technology, automation and space exploration under capitalism vs socialism, and he has also published some great (thoroughly researched and exhaustively sourced) short documentaries explaining how the monetary system works in-depth.
To strawman for once "for a time I believed in this, but I stopped believing in that thing not long after and started believing in wildly different things" even if what you're saying is true, do you think that gives your assertions, assumptions and arguments more credibility? That just sound like a teenager engaging in what's called ideology shopping. I mean, anti-communism is a religion of corporate media, so this is not at all an unrealistic assertion of what basically happened - you "believed" in whatever you "believed" for such a short time that you couldn't even read the basic texts about the thing you supposedly agreed with from the people who propose that thing, and were gullible enough to get persuaded by the weakest arguments against that thing, when they were bombarded to you by mass media. I can say the same, that I was a conservative who believed in all the incoherent anti-communist non-sense until I turned 17.
So, you acknowledge that these are your opinions but then go on to pretend they are some sort of objective truth or reality. I guess conservatives think Marxist academics and scholars (anthropologists & archaeologists, sociologists, philosophers, economists, political scientists, etc) don't live in reality, even though they have spent their life trying to understanding the reality we live in, some of whom have written texts analyzing and critiquing past socialist projects, what they did right, what went wrong with them (both internal and external factors), how that can be avoided in the future, etc. No self-proclaimed former communist turned conservative (most of them weren't ever commies in the first place, but lie because the rhetoric sounds convincing) has red even the first few chapters of Capital, hence their turn to conservatism, which stems from a lack of understanding of reality. The conservative understand of reality is heavily distorted.
No communist thinks "communism could work", why would we when Cuba exists. PlasticPills' documentary on Cybersocialism & The CIA Coup in Chile does an excellent job of making one realize what would happen to Cuban socialism if Fidel Castro kept the farce of liberal rights, "freedoms" and "liberties", and the sham that is liberal "democracy". Cuba under Castro was the first country to properly recognize climate change as an existential threat, and Cuba as a result is the most environmentally sustainably developed country on the planet. The crisis which Cuba faced in the early 1990s (so, immediately after losing their main trading partner with the dissolution of the USSR, Cuba was doing very well when the Soviet Union was around) would have resulted in mass graves in any capitalist country. Cuba still provides a greater quality of life to its citizens than capitalist Latin American and African countries (i.e. countries at similar levels of development) despite the backbreaking trade embargo imposed upon Cuba by USA. If only the dominant capitalist powers of the world were as corrupt as Cuba, the world would be a better place. I agree you should not keep arguing or respond, you said yourself that you don't really want to be a keyword warrior, so don't be one.
@@Srijit1946 TL;DR
Well, I did reply and did share some of my shallow opinions. The thing is we live in the world we live in, it is what it is. As I said I am not gonna argue, nor am I gonna change my opinion. Also I am not a conservative, but a neo-liberal. I dislike politics, but I do respect your opinion, good luck.
@@Zex-4729 this was a surprisingly non-antagonistic reply, I was expecting something alot worse. And well, there is social liberalism and conservatism, alot of countries in the world today are neo-liberal, and neo-liberals there want to conserve it. Many neo-liberals say that they are "socially progressive, fiscally conservative". In USA, republicans are economically neoliberal and socially conservative, while democrats are economically neoliberal and socially somewhat more progressive. Conservative parties in Scandinavia are further left economically than democrats in the USA, one can say they're right-wing social democrats. I have seen neoliberals and conservatives parrot the same talking points alot of times (except maybe conservatives don't shout "ECP!" as much), so to me they're not that different, and you're also subscribed to some conservative channels. I am sure many social democrats in Scandinavian countries don't like politics either.
It's ironic you accuse commies of being religious, but refused to read my reply and admitted that you're not going to change your opinion (which is fine, I would have linked BadEmpanada's video-essay critiquing neo-liberal theory and practice otherwise). It really was just rhetoric and projection.
"we live in the world we live in, it is what it is" this is a meaningless statement, the world radically changed itself many times just in the past few centuries alone, sometimes for the worse and sometimes for the better. The dominant narratives and consensus change. Considering that, in modern economies, the RoP (Rate of Profit) for non-finance sectors is around 5 - 6% and GDP growth is projected to be consistently around or even below 2% in the coming decades. Furthermore, globalization has reached to every continent since the 1990s. The search for new markets is over. Also, mergers and acquisitions have exploded since the 1980s, low growth incentivizes the centralization of capital.
All the factors that have historically powered and justified capitalism (profitability, GDP growth, entry into new markets, competition) are in decline, and global warming / climate change alone will create revolutionary conditions all around the world.
The world is going to change for the better and for the worse in different places this century too. To quote a great (but ultimately failed) Russian revolutionary, "There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen."
Personally I don't think we should discount "mysticism" as you call it. I think this mentality causes an imbalance that is a major part of the problem in the world we currently have. I don't think we can just go socialist then slap art and plants on everything and expect things will be different, oversimplified, but the point is that art, creativity, imagination, magic, needs to have it's pride restored and not simply be relegated to esthetics and entertainment. In our modern world view there is a serious disconnect between the internal and external, and in my opinion that is a huge part of the problem.
Just a few minutes ago I read a post on Reddit asking to have "lunarpunk" explained, and the answer was very insightful. Especially noticeable was that some people have noted how solarpunk is still a fairly masculine perspective and poorly balanced with the feminine. I don't believe a purely rational perspective can ever give a civilization or community things like meaning and purpose, which they do require for there to even be a point in having them in the first place. Calling it philosophy is fine, but at the core of all philosophy there is mysticism because philosophy is not rational, it is imaginary.
Mostly agree there! With some minor points. We only spoke about the cheap mysticism, and sure, the "fancy" one is fine. But then I wouldn't draw comparison between mysticism and just creativity or imagination - this also discounts mysticism, because it should be something that, at least for the person experiencing it, transcends the mundane world (whether bystanders believe it or not). Also, philosophy can be based on different types of rationality, but that doesn't make it "imaginary", and definitely not mystical. (I mean, mystical experiences should be suprarational, coming from some rationality incomprehensible to the one having the experience.)
Obv all of the above does not mean that we ourselves should treat the source of this revelation as an existing being for it to be mystical. It's just how to classify the experience in terms of philosophy of religion.
Pretty cool, but it is another tech-wank. Itcreates a green society that is over reliant on technology. Nice video tho!
no, solarpunk, unlike eco-modernism, puts heavy emphasis on HOW the technology is used and whom does it serve. It also doesn't rely on technology alone but sees it as a part of bigger changes to how political system works, how we design our cities, how communities work etc.
You can check Andrewism videos on solarpunk, he explain how technology is barely any important part of the solarpunk narrative, if at all.
@@fyu1945 it does not matter how it is used and for whom, it is still a tech-wank that creates a society over-reliant on technology, which is a ticking bomb.
@@slimetank394 I see.
@@fyu1945 is it? It's existed for like a year at this point and half the solar punk content made is artwork and inspired spoofs. Next to impossible to state definitely what it is or is not
Ok but how do we also avoid Greenwashed Communism or Greenwashed Socialism? I'm tired of clinging to the words of fat old men from the 1800s/1900s.
The “punk” is about this and that, then proceeds to appropriate and colonize the word’s meaning and the idea behind it.
If you think cyberpunk is doom then I don't think you understand cyberpunk
You're not serious, are you? The vast majority of cyberpunk literature and film portrays it as a bad thing.
@@saucevc8353 Well let me explain. So if you think about when Cyberpunk was created in the 1980s most people believed the human race would be completely destroyed in nuclear hell fire that would destroy all life. Cyberpunk is a timeline where sure its not good what is going on but life is still moving forward and as long as life is moving forward in some way there is a chance for things to get better.