Why Are Some Lands 25 Cents, But Others Are $300?
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
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00:00 Intro
00:35 Guildgates
03:41 Rare Lands
06:43 Shocklands/Fetchlands
12:00 Revised Dual Lands
#mtg #magicthegathering - Hry
Fun fact:
Dual lands 'weakness' was having two basic land types, which makes you vulnerable to landwalk abilities 😁
That aged nicely haha
@@nethandelwampa116 bring back land walk
Honestly never even thought of it like that before till after reading your comment; weird how 30 years can change a drawback huh? Still waiting for One With Nothing to be broken somehow...
@@lordsauron8546 madness discount?
Bro I love the card mountain goat for no particular reason
my printer can give me better condition than sellers on my continent
Based
And better quality.
Timmys of the year
Gigachad
And cost just a fraction! Printers are broken guys!
Can't believe I watched a 17 minute 8thPlaceDave video about lands and didn't see a single Hashep Oasis.
Its so funny how the majority reason why mtg decks are expensive is entirely just lands.
Year, esp. in EDH. Main Deck 250$; Land base 3k$🤪
Honestly, land bases are cheaper now than ever thanks to the reprints in sets like Dr. Who. You really don't need shocks/fetches until you get into 4c/5c decks
@@FightinTheGorlax They are manditory on modern. In Pioneer shocks and two sided lands are also very important to run eac at 4 because the average opponent will also be running them at 4 each. In commander you might be able to get away with it depending on your play group but not in more standard formats.
Also the doctor who reprints did not include shocks, two sided lands, or fetch lands, and the average person is not running a 4c or 5c decks. The Doctor Who commander decks did give valuable reprints to most types of dual lands (namely cycles cycles and slow lands which were huge proce drops) but they never touched any lands that were relevant in mlre standard formats outside of commander.
@@CatManThree fair points, hopefully the rest of the fetches get reprinted in mh3!
@@FightinTheGorlax yeah but fetches will always be superior because they're fetches, and dual lands have the best synergy with them so people play duals
I always thought that part of the reason non-green dual lands are also more valuable is other colors' lack of built in mana fixing/ramp. It's cool having a giant growth or silence available turn one, but it's insane to have a mental misstep or bolt live turn one in comparison, at least imo.
Mental Misstep is live before you've even had your first turn, you can run literally no lands and it's still live if it's in your hand.
Kinda but not really. Really it's whatever is meta, because every color has access to duals. OG duals have price "retention" because very few people are buying and playing with them. So they aren't influenced as much.
In formats that aren't commander, your "ramp" strategies tend to be doing something unfair (Lotus Field + Reclamations, tron, etc.) and not really bothering with mana fixing. Whereas regular decks tend to care about your fetches and suite.
And in Commander, your ramp strategies prioritize cards that get typed lands. Further emphasizing the typed lands in green as well because you have EXTRA ways to get typed lands out in addition to your duals. Again, it's more about meta and play right now.
@@FightinTheGorlax it was honestly just the first amazing 1 cmc blue instant in my head lol. I know it's always live.
@@VCV95 fair enough haha
This was a very comprehensive answer to such a common beginner question. Well done
if looking to get into financial aspect of it. lands is where its at. everyone needs lands. bad land base means bad deck mechanics.
Well done video.
Lands are my favorite cards in the game, got a playset of fetches, shocks, and check lands picking up every overtime shift I could. MH2 had excellent timing for the enemy fetch lands. Hopefully the allied ones see a reprint soon because they’ve crept out of my groups’ budget lately.
MH3 is coming this year so maybe
Been doing the same since I started magic! I have a playset of fetches, shocks, and triomes (almost all the triomes. missing a couple) and just got into buying true duals!
lands are easiest to sell
i have over 1500 non basic lands. many in foil. @@Bladeofwar94
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have not played Magic in many years but I always wondered about the usefulness of shock lands and why they were so desirable.
As a Selesnya guildmage, I approve of this video.
If there was no reserve list, the original duals would be worth about $20 or so like the shock lands. Maybe $25. How do I know? I actually bought the original revised Dual Lands in 2007 when the Shock Lands were $20+ and most of the original duals were cost less than the shock lands. ofr example, the Red/White shock was more valuable than the red white dual because you could and would play the shock land in competitive decks, but not the original dual land. That was true for most of the non-blue ones and the green black one.
Even the Blue/red, blue/black, and blue/white were only around $30-$50 each back then. It was the explosion of commander + speculator market runs that drove up the prices in two year chunks (2011, 2013, 2015, and 2017 all had reserve list runs on the market).
If they were not on the list and just printed in master sets year after year and we accessible, they would be like the fetches: $15-$35 give or take. they are good, but not $300+ good. They are Chinese proxy good.
It's important to have cards worth money for many reasons. Not ALL cards but definitely some should be out of reach for people with less money. Gotta save up to get the big hitters.
@@chesterfieldthe3rd929 - Yes and no? Super special collectors edition rare prints? Sure, whatever floats your boat. Reserve list? Nah. It was a knee jerk reaction to cry babies. WotC threw that in their face when they announced the list:
"Why We Reprint Cards
The Magic trading card game has tremendous appeal as both a game and a collectible. For us, however, the Magic game is first and foremost a supreme game of strategy and skill. We choose to reprint cards because we believe (a) the cards we reprint make for enjoyable game play, and (b) all Magic players deserve an opportunity to play with these cards. Any card that isn't on the reserved list may be reprinted."
It is the definition of "Quit crying, we can and will reprint cards, stop being little babies"
Then they fucked up and said they would make the reserve list to appease them rather than stopping where my quote stopped.
@@PaulGaither It wasn't just collectors whining. It actually had the chance of killing the game entirely at the time. It's easy to look back in hindsight and not understand the context of exactly how uncertain magic's future was at the time. Wizards was in no financial position to be strong arming the few players they had at the time who invested in their alpha through legends sets(effectively similar to kickstarter stuff today, where people would absolutely be pissed if they just mass made their first edition kick starter versions they paid premium for and helped the company start with) So they made a concession they didn't want to make to give the game a better chance at a future. Without it you might not be able to be here complaining about magic cards. It was a necessary evil. And one that barely actually effects you as most of the relevant cards have alternatives that have been made to get similar effects. And even the ones that don't boohoo there's tens of thousands of other options to choose from. They needed those people who invested in to come back for further sets, as if they didn't because they figured their investment would get undercut by mass reprints again the ship had a real chance to sink from lack of sales. Chronicles was the mistake, not the reserve list. The reserve list was accepting they had to make a decision where there wasn't a good decision to be able to make just to keep moving forward and making cards. And it worked. Ironic that you call those original collectors the cry babies really. When in reality it was their dollars that kept the game going for you to cry about it today.
@@braddorcas9363 - I respect that your wrote that, but it's a bunch of horse shit they got you to buy into.
Magic is a game, not an investment, and it has been a great game. Moreover, most of those investors were not players. Not at regular tournaments and local FNM and so forth. I am biased from growing up in Northern California where some of the greatest players are from, but I saw it first hand. Whining neckbeards were not going to kill the game. Fallen Empires came a lot closer to killing the game than the threat of over leveraged people who had $20 Black Lotus and $8 drop of honey.
But keep pushing the revisionist history they spoon fed you.
The truth is the game was great and people wanted to drink and fire off drafts into the night, then come back on Saturday afternoon to play Type 1 and Type 2 constructed.
@@PaulGaitherlol at revisionist, i was there you windbag. But sure keep being mad there's a few cards too expensive for you to buy.
I can't grab Savannah with my Mazes End, checkmate speculators
Awesome video. I always wondered why the oldschool dual lands were so sought after besides rarity, but never bothered to look into it since I stick with Standard at the moment. All this info will help me when evaluating a new brew. Thanks for the info!
I played Magic before a lot of the two color lands were printed, and then started playing again around Guilds, so when I saw Bayou's price when trying to put it in a deck I thought, "why is this so expensive, it's not even that good." Then I found out the number of other lands, reserved list, and I figured it out a few days later. This video is very similar to my thought process on them, especially because I like to look up random cards, and know a lot of weird lands. Kinda surprised you don't have a Temple of Plenty shown as well, but I guess you may not have one, or couldn't find it
best cards to get are the ones that no one sees the potential for yet. you get to buy them in foil and for cheapies. then they skyrocket.
my 2 bets so far is ...
rustvine cultivator
evolving adaptive
very very cheap for now.
go find me ONE CARD that costs 1 mana. and it keep getting stronger for no cost? that is evolving adaptive
now go find me any other card that will allow me to untap any land for free? that is rustvine cultivator
they will skyrocket; but over time.
Excellent description! I knew this already but it was cool hearing your handling of it.
Thank you for going over this Dave!
Simple. Easy to understand. Well explained. Absolutely amazing educational video.
Thanks for this. I'm a new player and there's a lot to learn. Really appreciate content like this.
Love the video, will be sending it to my friends who recently started playing magic!
“Lands you control enter the battlefield untapped” cards are total game changers.
I was really surprised to see them print that effect on an uncommon for LCI
@@1997Awesomedude it's too slow 3cmc for untap land
@bluehabs sees play in commander and historic. It's too slow for standard, but fantastic in something like gates
@@bluehabs Amulet of vigor costs 1 mana.
not anymore
I have 12 og dual lands and 2 gaea’s cradles i got from booster packs. My unlimited Tundra is in perfect condition. It’s crazy what their worth now
Dave found a way to make his Savannah a business expense.
I wish lands wouldn’t cost more than a buck. It‘s just the mana base… I have never and would never pay more than that just for my manabase…
Well that’s the problem since you see it as a mana base while someone else sees it as a “collectible” that’s where the crazy prices come in. I’m sure you already know that, but I’m with you, it’s just a land to provides two different mana and players make it sound like a big deal
@@Blu_Moon_Owl Agree 100%
@@rhonir3209 ye it sucks I wish I had a dual land, they’re cool
At the highest level, not having the right colours or lands coming into play tapped can lose you the game.
@@laytonjr6601 yes very true get mana screw is almost a death sentence,
but how many of us are at THAT high of a level when playing Magic where you’ll just lose?
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for.
I think one solution to the reserve list dual land price issue would be to print new dual lands that are better than the originals rather than worse, only allowed in legacy formats. Like, maybe they enter untapped and give some negligible advantage when they enter
This was a cool and very educational video, thank you!
What do you think of the Canopy Vista cycle? Why isn’t it complete and it is a searchable dual that can come in untapped quite often. Would potentially make the Grasslands cycle viable?
They should just get rid of the reserve list and reprint with new art and even white border if you must.
Alternatively make a land which comes into play tapped unless you have two or more opponents and counts as the land types. That fixes it for commander. Original cycle duals would still be desirable but not as essential with another option without impacting eternal dual formats.
Bro they already have lands that come in untapped if you have 2 or more opponents lol
Great video, extremely informative!
Really good video!
I think it's worthy of note, that no single card is "worth" more than a couple cents outside of investment-opportunity.
I can buy a board game with many cards in it, in which some of the cards are clearly stronger than others but they don't magicaly start costing 300 bucks because they're THAT much better compared to other cards in the box.
And that realy is the crux. A tap-land WILL make you lose tournament games sometimes, where an untapped dual land or even a basic land would have let you play things on curve. But in a casual commander game? WHO GIVES A FLYING F***? It's not just that it's outrageously expensive, it's also that a tap-land in a 99 card singleton casual 4-player format is so hilariously inconsequential to wether you'll win or lose the round. The overwhelming majority of magic players are not playing in an actual competitive environment, where you can win money by placing high.
I'm saying this as someone who has a bunch of fetchlands for each color pair, as well as shocklands, while never having been to a tournament in my 20 years of playing magic, so I'm being quite hypocritical. BUT, the point is that in pure gameplay terms, there's a thousand things that you can do to improve your deck with, before ever having to consider paying several hundred bucks for a "consistent mana-base". You can easily build a deck with only basic lands and a couple budget fixers, that will perform on curve, if you pay attention to your card's mana-costs. E.g.: Don't play a tripple-white spell and expect to be able to cast it turn 3 in your red-white Boros-Weendie-Deck.
Isn't Volcanic Island specifically also more expensive because it didn't get printed in Alpha, so it's generally more scarce than other duals?
Kind of, but not really. The number of Alpha Volcanic Islands in circulation today has very little effect on the price of Revised versions. There are so few Alpha rares as it is. Underground Sea had the Alpha printing and is the same price as Volcanic, so that's probably a good comparison.
@@8thPlaceDave Ah ok! Thanks.
How long until the 4 color "come into play tapped, pay 4 to cycle" and the 5 color "come into play tapped, pay 5 to cycle" lands get made? And where are the enemy color cycle duals and the enemy colored Battle Duals (need 2 basics to be untapped)?
They all cost 10 cents of printer inc in commanderland
to be fair 300$ for a dual is crazy its insane to see where ouer hobby is atm. i play oldschool but its just becoming crazy, and we are in a price ressesion atm
Very nice video , very nice explanation for beginnners.
Alt title: "Magic the Gathering player explains the principles of supply and demand."
Scarcity my friend
ScarCity Games? I love them!
the moment that sunpetal grove would enter tapped when you need it to be untapped, "oh man I wish this were Temple Garden id win the game here..." is all it takes :)
Also lol at surveil duals being spoiled today, someone who watched this video probably knows where they stand!
The specific reason why sun petal grove is mostly a weaker card than temple garden is tied back to the basic land types again. In a format with a small number of utility land's that dont have basic land types sun petal grove is a generally going better card than temple garden in a two colour deck. Sun petal grove gets weaker the stronger your mana bases gets as most other dual land's dont have basic land types.
I will say if your were playing a format with a limit on rares the check lands are probably the 2nd best lands behind original duals. As fetches fall quite a bit when they dont have dual lands to grab.
In a format with no limit on rare the fetchs are the strongest land even ahead of the original duals.
But I would say the fetches are only better than og duals if they can fetch up og duals
@@ColossaldreadmawOP Yes, but if they can't fetch og dual, then they are still better than them by virtue of actually being playable. Your are correct though that fetches are only better than og duals if their are other dual typed basic lands for them to fetch, as it is the ability for a singular fetchland to represent all 5 colours of potentially mana that makes them strong and that only works with fetchable dual or trilands.
Even just their ability to fetch triomes or the shock land's makes them really powerful
IIRC the fetch lands weren't even so popular/expensive when they first came out. The original dual lands were illegal for most formats so the only cards they could search up were actual basics. It was Ravnica and its Shock Lands that finally caused them to skyrocket as they now became great mana fixers.
@@nobodyimportant72 For sure, they are only good if they have other strong lands with basic land type as to fetch, but they are also arguably stronger than those lands. Obviously utility lands and land that produce more than 2 colours could be better.
Main point is that fetches are stronger than original duals if a format in which both exist (as an aside if you could only have 4 non basics dual land the it's probably original duals followed by check lands and fetches are pretty mediocre) .
i mean, just get rid of reserved list?
That would have been the 100% correct move... decades ago.
At this point, don´t hold your breath. Noone that cares even slightly about money plays the formats where original dual lands are legal anymore, beyond those who play with rented/lent decks perhaps.
The reserved list is based on a legally unenforceable promise: and WotC has broken a great number of promises. The fact that they refuse to break a promise that would help consumers is curious...
@@behemoth9543 If they didn't want to screw over the secondary that much, then I guess they could just release massively overpriced product with it at ultra high rarity and ease the price down.
Or like, given that really milks money, I can totally see WotC doing that... maybe I shouldn't jinx it...
The only difference in price between sunpetal and Razorverge is due to their sets. Card availability is much lower for the set that contained Sunpetal. Also, shocking yourself for 2 can be a positive effect by itself for some decks.
Short answer: because WotC won't reprint some cards because they make so much money on the secondary market.
I literally recently spent 50 minutes explaining this concept and situation to my wife.
I only just learned you do serious videos too. I was not prepared.
;)
such a great explanation!
As someone who already knew the reason, I still watched the whole video
oh, but sharpie-ing out the "enters the battlefield tapped" on my guildgates makes them "worthless" and "unplayable" 🙄
Amazing!!!! I love these video! Fantastic
Supply, demand. You are welcome.
Wizards need to start giving land types to tapped dual lands. The temples would be so much better if they had land types, same with the man lands.
I agree, that would be pretty cool.
If they did that they could get back to land walk. Not that they like niche unblockables but there were times they were important but these days you can see decks without any basic land types much less any actual basics.
They already started doing that with a lot of the recent prints. They aren't likely to do retroactive retyping, but a lot of those lands had circumstances that let them ETB untapped. That being said, they need to work on supporting land types beyond basic. A lot of them like Desert, Cave and Sphere are just... there.
@@machdude3366 Definitely more deserts ;)
Out of curiosity, what ones do you personally find most worth their cost?
If you are building a deck, do you shell out the money for shocks and fetches, or go with something cheaper?
I love the buddy and filter lands personally.
Entirely depends on the deck budget and format. Competitive values untapped lands much more, and commander is slower format than 1v1. Overall, it shouldn't be significantly above the average price point of the deck, adjusting up or down based on the importance of the fixing or utility.
For low-budget, run basics and cheap slow dual-colours. In competitive 1v1, run basics unless deeply 3-colour or 4/5-colour- then, if you really have no other fixing, run slow duals. Commander can get away with more tapped duals, especially if more casual.
For higher-budget, you should start to consider cheaper faster duals like pings, shocks etc and utility lands that fit the deck's gameplan. For 1v1, triomes and slow fetches are still the domain (heh) of 4/5-colour decks since the formats are too fast to otherwise justify tapped lands.
The top-most end of land is entirely bling since much cheaper alternatives exist that are usually overall 90+% as good. Get those to show off or when competitiveness is all that matters, over cost.
Don't forget your token basics even in the most blinged out decks though, or you'll be very annoyed when hit by wastelands etc. And if Blood Moon is legal and common in the format, well, then have a fair number of basics or be ready to fill the deck with fetchlands.
@@bluerendar2194 I know, I just wanted to know what other people preferred to play personally.
i wish WotC put Prismatic Vista in every precon. Amazing video.
Yeah, Prismatic would make sense to print much more regularly.
As a Maze’s End player, I feel personally attacked. :D
More shocking than a shockland to me is that guildgates go for 25 ct in US? lmao xD
Tabernacle
Short answer: The one that's $300 doesn't enter tapped
And because it's really busted, it doesn't get reprinted
Me watching this video intently despite knowing all of this information already
If you have to ask, shows you haven’t played long.
Like why are some commons worth more than rare or epic rare cards?
AMULET OF VIGOR! xD
I hate busting a land in my rare slot in draft. One of the worst feelings ever. I don't mind drafting lands but sheeesh.
very useful thx
meanwhile Hashep Oasis is priceless
They really need to reprint the original dual lands. The best cards should not be out of print. Reserve list or not the old ones will hold value for being the originals. Like how many times has charizard been printed but the 1st edition will always hold an insane premium.
Psh, try Library of alexandria, Bazaar of bagdad, Mishra workshop.
3 artifact mana on a land turn 1. Grim monolith/voltaic key alone ramp you to 5 mana. Which is a fairly magical amount of 1st turn mana. Or better yet turn 2 having 8 mana at the start of turn. Drop a second workshop so you have 11 mana >.> . Workshop->Metalworker. Is a very nice one too. Next turn reveal hand for 12-14 mana even using land. use voltaic to get over 20 second turn.
Yup, lands alone can cost you 10k+. Good reason for that.
What about the artifact dual indestructible lands in mh2
They are good and have a lot of upside, but coming into play tapped and not having basic land types holds back their utility
when are they bringing out half tapped lands . they come in half tapped and untaps on your second main phase
Would probably be too good in standard for a good while for all decks except maybe aggro, although if they only ever untap on second main and not in untap, it could be interesting (but still probably too good, or like, it might actually be better in some cases... hmm).
Although, untap on end/opp untap for first turn might still be surprisingly good in some flash/instant decks (or even if it was perma that way)
@@bluerendar2194
If you put it that way it would be busted .. but the wording should state it does not untap during the intap step otherwise you have double mana with no downside
@@toastyneon That's the intent, it *only* untaps on second main. I still think that might have surprising uses, since mana can be banked to the next main 1, then untaps again on main 2 - could be useful for control at least, and maybe breaks some card combinations by letting them come out a turn early.
Abu duals are amazing and wotc could print them if they wanted to. It would actaully increase the value of the of the OG ones because people would want them for swag. But tbf no one collecting cards or the brass at wotc has the 10+ IQ to know that. So proxy and if people talk shit tell them "I'm sorry the ony way you can win is wallet size. Maybe take up a hobby you aren't trash at.
Lol because they stopped printing them.
Another two utilities of fetch lands is deck thinning and shuffling. You basically remove an extra card for your deck for each fetch land you run - getting you closer to the cards you actually want to play, and it's a good way to be able to shuffle your deck when you don't like what you see on top.
Definitely didn't mention the thinning and I believe it would trigger landfall twice. I know he is trying to keep it simple but its a big part of them
I personally dont like cards that make me lose life unless i have a way to gain life.
but especially lands that come in tapped unless i pay life. 1 game i played (not my own deck)
i lost half my life because of those lands and didnt like that.
While they are helpful they also do have their limits. Playing five color you probably don't want all of you lands shocking you to come into play.
You can have them not shock you if you don't need the mana this turn
@@laytonjr6601 true i suppose.
Remember fellow nerds. The card's are only worth what someone will pay for it. Are cards too expensive? Stop buying expensive cards. Those prices will drop. And make them more available for us poor folk 😭
economics 101
Because for some reason people think only trust fund babies should get to play reserved list cards in a casual format (sarcasm, but only a little bit)
Card old. Card expensive. That's just how it be.
I mean...did this REALLY need to be answered? Just seems like one of those questions that legit no one has ever asked. Ever. Just doesn't need to be answered.
I've personally seen many people ask this. It's something I wondered about as well when I was a new player.
Scarcity
The guildgate is not worth 25 cents
They need a new really rare unique dual type land
I could *almost* see a "comes in tapped unless you don't control [1 to 3 basic landtypes]," but that just sounds like fast/slowlands on crack
There are a few from future sight that haven't gotten a cycle: river of tears, Grove of the burnwillow and nimbus Maze. I don't know if river of tears and nimbus maze would be playable though, and it might be too powerful to give grove of burnwillows to the more controly color pairs.
@@smob0 I think the Nimbus Maze cycle would work since they'd tap for colorless; burnwillows would work too well probably; I've never seen river of tears work, so outside of landfall decks they'd probably flop
@@ethans7938 I don't think it'd even synergize with landfall much since you need to pay for the cards to get the lands before the lands enter, so they still cannot all that reliably get the right side of the rivers cycle
A land that taps for four different colors ?
That was a long winded way of saying supply and demand! Great video though!
I often see this question from new players who don't believe why all the lands in this video are different prices. Next time I can just send them here instead of explaining it yet again! My only disappointment with this video is no Hashep Oasis😜
Yeah after uploading it I realized I should have put a hashep in there somewhere...
8:01 What was that thing you just did? What? 9:48 There, you just did it again!
5 or 6 turns? You men cEDH?
GREED... Sorry, I'll get to video later but while some lands are clearly better at others (generally more versatility and fewer restrictions/drawbacks) the only reason there are $300 lands is because WotC doesn't want to print them to a point people could include them in decks for the same price as the $0.25 land. Sure the printing cost for the two is nearly identical but if you can sell one for more why not. This is why we see $40 for five basic lands in Secret Lairs which is just nuts when they could easily give you five fetch lands (or even five original duals) for that same price.
30 seconds in, and I haven't laughed yet...
Half the "og" dual lands in the market are proxies. It's ironic that they have better quality than the actual MTG cards.
Better cards are more expensive… who would have thought.
Some are higher raririties, some ETB tapped, and some have the land types making them fetchable while others are not.
Your welcome, I just saved you watching a 17 minute video.
All cards are under $1. Proxy. Don't give your money to Hasbro. It's a children's card game (that I love). Have fun. Save money.
I sold all my reserve stuff off and bought proxies cause they were less than 20 cents a copy :D I now have a solid mana base and ramp for over 30 edh decks. Let the collectors have those overpriced peices of cardboard cause i simply don't need em!
Hi Dave, great channel 👍🏻
Do you have an email?
Yup! It's in the video description with all the other info, dave8thcontact@gmail.com