"Ghosts would have been preferable over starving vampires" Non-romanced rare dialog
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- čas přidán 1. 03. 2024
- Non romanced low approval conversation when you are on your way to Cazador... The ghosts of the past are hunting Astarion.
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Nice find - this really shows Astarion's cognitive dissonance at full blast. It's like his potential Ascended side and Spawn side are arguing with each other, and they're both mutually annoyed at Tav for poking their moral conscience lol.
Yep... and it probably can only happen with a friend, non-romanced Tav, because then he is not sure if he should trust Tav and is trying to find the answer himself... trying to rely , yet again, only on himself...😩
For real xD Spawn and ascended are both #Triggered and side eyeing Tav like 👀how dare xD
I don't think he is annoyed at tav for poking his moral conscience. It seems rather that he just hates Tav and others thinking about others before him and preaching to him by telling him what he should do to be morally good. Notice if you asks him what he thinks and what he wants to do he is less aggressive and shows how conflicted he is (if you preach to him he instead insists on ascending). If you leave the decision to him and tell him you believe that he will do what is best, he is thankful for your support. But he absolutely hates when you, just like all the heroes before you, brush his struggles and pain aside in order to focus only on others ... And you even have the audacity to preach to him.
@@s1b3r11 Good point.
@@s1b3r11Good point, after so many years of being told what to do he gets understandably angry at more of it. Allow him to come to his own conclusion and he wants to think more of others too.
Huh, so basically he is actually very conflicted about what he should do all the way to the actual ritual room, because his mind tells him he can grab power, but his heart actually wants to free them. But he absolutely hates it when YOU voice it as a command because then he feels forced to do something by someone he doesn't like or trust. Interesting indeed.
I think this happened because my Tav was dealing with Karlach and her story and never spoke to Astarion about any of his things and when I got here, this is what happens....
So I have noticed most people interpret him getting angry here as him being annoyed that tav telling him objective moral truths makes it impossible for him to ignore them.
The way I see it he is just annoyed because he thinks you have no moral right to say that to him. Even when you don't tell him what to do he acknowledges that killing all the spawns is morally wrong, so he is not lying to himself here. He just gets annoyed that you care about them more than you care for him, and that you give yourself the right to tell him what to do while ignoring his pain.
When you tell him you believe that he will make the right choice he shows that he is conflicted, acknowledges the 'right choice' on his own and is thankful for your thoughts and support
You know what, you make perfectly good sense and I agree with you!
The fact is that because "we" always romance him and this is new because he is not romanced, so many people are not sure how to react to someone (Tav) who has not interacted with Astarion much and just has general answers... like for the spawn etc
Like others said it, it's his conflict here which I really like. It realistically shows how confused and lost he is. His reasoning, morality and conscience tangled with one another and it's nice to see that Tav's is the only voice that can reach him at this point or make any difference to his decision.
It makes Tav's involvement later on even more impactful. He is dazed by his inner demons and humanity bickering and so when Tav makes the decision for him, he goes with it. Like we do, in real life. When some of us are so confused, we seek advice and counsel from ones we love even asking a loved one to make decisions for us.
True. It's interesting that he technically equally trusts a Tav no matter if romanced or not, which is not like that in RL... you trust more the people you love ... i guess your friends also count as the people you love... but friends for a few weeks... the love is not as strong as the romanced love... I dont know 🤔🤷♀️
@@resonatinglo Absolutely! His faith in Tav is equally strong in romantic or platonic love which proves to me that Astarion doesn't NEED a lover to heal.
I feel it's kinda same in real life too. Your friends & family can be as influential as a lover when it comes to making important life decisions. But yes, just a few weeks of knowing someone is not enough normally but Astarion isn't even normal.
He has barely had anyone beyond a single instance of sex or seduction. Perhaps he is so desperate for a real connection in life or maybe he is so utterly lost that he needs someone to guide him towards something better than what he has known so he lets Tav influence important decisions for him as he doesn't trust his own morality.
I like the platonic route a lot even though I am a rabid simp for him. I feel he needs a friend more than a lover which is why I loved his pairing with Karlach because there is no possibility of intimacy there for the most part. They can support each other, joke around, poke harmless banter at one another and help each other heal. Theirs is the most wholesome and cute friendship I've seen in the entire game.
@@m22d889 All is true... I think most people romance him just because there are more scenes and interactions in the romanced version, but OF COURSE he can heal with us being just his friend.... even probably he heals more if we don't romance him... then we prove him wrong that it's always all about sex...
@@resonatinglo Well sometimes love makes people blind. IMHO the fact that he can be nudged toward the "good" side by even a low-approval Tav implies it's probably in his nature that he can be and is also willing to be a better person, cuz in that case he doesn't do it because he loves you. He just cannot decide at that point and needs a little bit of push.
@@gracew.1468 He can be nudged to be good, but the check with low approval is very very high :D so Tav needs to be very convincing. But I see your point and I agree with you as well
That's interesting. It clearly shows how conflicted he is about ascending and the people he brought to Cazdor, and that his main goal, more than ascending, is stil to kill him.
True... that's why when we play we need to help him basically choose from the beginning and guide him to the right answer, because if we don't ... this happens 😅
I think this scene is well done. Up until this point, he’s been able to grasp the idea of power mostly without consequence, become infatuated with it. Convincing himself to kill his siblings was something easy to rationalize - they’re all monsters, all guilty, etc etc. But the 7000 spawn are not. They’re a consequence he can’t ignore or rationalize away. He has to actively choose to expend them.
True... we often forget that when I see people arguing about the topic of Spawn vs AA... the 7000 souls are often forgotten to be added to the equation 😩
@@resonatinglo Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I'd have a hard time not adding him to my party even if I didn't like him. Once you know 7000 people will die if you don't rescue him and kill Cazador, it's kind of hard to feel good about a redemption/hero run without him haha.
@@veronicashields4405 haha, I see your point... but also dont forget that they are not 7000 people.... they are starved spawn beasts... so it can be counted a mercy to actually kill them instead of releasing them into the world...
@@resonatingloUm Astarion is also seen as a starved spawn but we call him a person not a beast.
@@FenrirWolfganger true... only Shadowheart calls him other things in their banter 🤭😅
So I got this on both my romanced DUrge with exceptional approval And Karlach origin romanced with very high approval (only 72 by act 3! not being able to feed on you and being heroic means you gotta be so patient ahhhhh) and I love this because you only get this After talking to the kids. You talk to the adults on one side and then ask him what he’s thinking and then talk to the kids and this is the dialogue following that. His resolve about ascending doesn’t waver until seeing the children. And “…yes I had no choice, but it seems now I do” is one of my absolute favorite lines by him. Because I, meta-wise as the player, am paying it forward for all the times I was helpless by helping him, so seeing him also understand that he has an opportunity in that moment to give something that was never given to him…god the writing is so good.
The writing is brilliant... it's better than a book 😅
I wonder if it's different because this is non-romanced, because in my romanced one he looked absolutely agonized when he said, "It's my fault they're here" and his voice cracked and was higher pitched.
Yep, I think the non-romanced Astarion has some different reactions from time to time. But they are so hard to catch...
Where are you talking to him? I assume it’s somewhere near the prisoners. I’ve never explored the dungeon, just gone straight to Cazador.
in the other sealed room just before the prisoners. On the left of the bridge there's a sealed room where you need the ring and there you find how to do the ritual... there he reads the words, so he can know how to say them... in theory...
And other lore related to Cazador and his previous master