Volvo C70 Diagnosis of Hesitation, Low Power but no codes
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- 2011 Volvo C70 that owner describes intermittent issue where it "feels like its trying to shift gears but doesn't do it smoothly". Feels like maybe a misfire but its so intermittent its hard to catch. No check engine light or history/pending codes.
Here is a link to the fun video I mentioned with my friend Bob where we prep his Plymouth Prowler for a car show: • Having Fun Prepping a ...
This Cannrl and Ivan at PHSF absolutely rock. 🙂
Thank you for that Gem of information, '' it puts more load on the coil in a high compression environment'' I got a sudden leap of understanding
Yes!! Glad you appreciate that. It’s critical to know that because it puts some variables to the spark jump to a ground test. It’s not really reliable. I have seen many times- actually have videos of it- where a bad coil jumps an impressive and brightly colored spark outside of the cylinder but the scope clearly shows it fall flat on its face in the cylinder under compression.
I also even have a fascinating video of a waste spark system where the bad coil is the one that jumped a nearly 3 inch super spark to the test light which was easily double what the other coils did. But it was that coil which was the bad one- the other coils were good and the lesser jump was normal.
@@SchrodingersBox - wow, so many variables, just goes to show, we can take nothing for granted, thanks for your response 😊
Had an Audi A4 that had that intermittent misfiring and no check light. Only when the car warms up while driving, the car would shake(as the customer explained) which was misfiring. So being a beneficiary from this channel and a student as well, i did exactly what you taught us here. And cylinder number 3&4 we misfiring, checked compression and compression was good, changed the coil packs and the misfiring was gone.
Best car channel on CZcams. Thank you for teaching me
Great video as usual
This is the best moment 38:34
6000 rpm no misfires car is fixed
Thanks Dr Kamar!!! You just reminded me I need to check the book download performance, I have done that in months!!!
Nice one Matt. I enjoy seeing how you attack each issue.
Nice to see the weather has improved, and great to see the proof rather than a guess!
MATT, AWESOME video full off information how to see the bad coil just by observation what the coil producing great approach and thought process and after reading the comments one off ur viewer mentioned # 4 coil oscillation occurred after the collapse of the field when u were doing the test with scope that was the money shoot indeed the coil showed as the worse of other the energy did not get used 100% so some of that energy got induced in the secondary winding as u explained in the comment well brother as always appreciate ur time and effort by sharing ur knowledge.
Thanks as always my friend and yes, once again the comments on the videos often produce more information than the video itself as that viewer nailed it with that great observation!!!!
I can’t believe I overlooked that- the whole idea was to compare the amperage traces hahahahaha!!!!
Moral of the story is. Don’t be a parts changer ! Sorry, Mat. Had to. Unless you’ve verified you need to obs. Just goes to show we need many tools in our box but with a bit brains and thorough thought usually we win through. All said and done I’ll bet you don’t end up needing to pay for their parts 💪
I threw the parts cannon with my own cars. I’ll be keeping the car for a long time, anyway.
Oh man changing plugs and wires, that's more like it I can watch this all day
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Yep a special ETCG episode today!!
Man I always hate it when the problem turns out to be “plugs and wires” because I always get some new viewer who has no idea what I’m doing and they say “so you went through all that just to change plugs and wires? I’d have done that and had car fixed in 10 minutes”
@@SchrodingersBox hopefully they stick around long enough to learn something and level up their diagnosis from dead reckoning to actual scientific method...
its like the difference between sticking a gun against your head and pulling the trigger to check if its loaded versus cocking it open to check for a round in the chamber.
@@ChristmasCrustacean1 good analogy
Actually your testing was correct, using the amp clamp you were testing the primary side of the coil, which all showed good, using your test light to check the spark you were testing the secondary side of the coil which all showed week. I wonder what an ohm reading would have shown, that might be another way to check the secondary side.
Great point! I would have ohmed the old coils if I had time but I generally don’t rely on that as an indicator of coil health as I’ve seen so much variation.
Under the special function tab below the read data stream sometimes you have the miss fire counter on that section I’ve noticed using my Topdon Phoenix plus . Great scan tool
Another good spark test is to run your test light all the way around the rubber boot, about half way up... Many times you will see it spark right through the boot- to your test light.. and there's your issue.
Totally correct. Technically I already did that with my hand by removing the coil while engine was running hahahahaha. If there was a loss of insulation in the boot or near the coil itself I’d definitely have found out!!!
I do indeed have several videos showing what you mention- the spark finding its way through a hole in the boot or even through the top of the coil!!
Thanks Matt ! I sure do appreciate the abundance of system operation detail in your coaching !!
👊🏼 🔥
Glad to hear it!!! Most people hate the detail and just want to see an Intake getting removed for no reason lol.
@@SchrodingersBox
Yeah that’s right … it’s the nature of the beast though ; because this trade requires the UTMOST of prudence / diligence - which only comes from a being like a “dog on a bone” in order to handle these and other such quality tutorials . The real world repair jobs are not for the faint of heart or those who cut corners .
Nicely done, I believe you also a D8 or D7: you out to try that scanner for miss fires counter. Volvo cars of this vintage do like to eat coils and some grounding problems at coils. Next time you get the car check the PCV system. I normally do mine after 10 years
My 2000 V70 still has the original coils. I replaced the 2nd set of spark plugs at 60k (original replaced at 30k) and they looked almost new. It's slow as molasses but it's smooth as butter.
Appreciate the info who cares what the haters say.
My partner has a Volvo V70 II with the predecessor engine of this engine (B5244T3) and I have a Volvo S60 I with the B5244S2 (the naturally aspirated version).
Within two months, completely unrelated, both had a failed coil. And the V70 already had two(?) coils replaced previously, so we decided to replace all of them on both cars.
We both got very lucky not to get stranded, but it was very close in both cases.
However the NGK coils weren't that expensive, I think 40€ a piece. (And I diagnosed the bad coils before replacing them. Not as sophisticated as you, but by swapping them and observing the misfire counter for each individual cylinder :D)
Well... there can always be further problems... BUT the coils are weak and you've shown their weakness... Plugs are always consumables. So with better plugs and coils further troubleshooting is enhanced. Generally old mechanics hate replacing one of several similar parts as wear is usually commemsurate.
Wow great job!
Good job , 👏 470 to airport not too bad . 👍
Hahahaha yep. I spend about $200 a month on that toll road lol.
I am wondering 🤔 why didn't you just change the spark plugs because all coils was not bad .. I ❤ your channel
I did change them!!!
Excellent Many Thanks
Thank you
I look at spark color and jump length.
Think oem coils can be obtained for much, much less than $100 ea!
Hi nice video, one question, is the kilovolts same in all revs, or it's changing, thanks
It changes. Ideally we would expect higher voltage in higher compression as more voltage is needed in a higher pressure environment to jump a soark
Looks like Volvo's B5254 T2 engine.
I believe it’s a T5
@@SchrodingersBox
Damn...my bad!!! I have two of those things: what the hell was I thinkin'???
Hi Matt,
Love your videos.
I noticed at about 24:20, the bad coil had some oscillations right after the collapse of the field, but the new coil and the other coils didn't. Is that an indication of something?
Oh wow dude nice observation!!! I totally didn’t notice that.
Yes I believe those oscillations occur when there is “unused” energy remaining in the coil that rather than going towards the spark, they reverberate back in the secondary winding and that energy is being shown to lesser degree as those oscillations on the primary (remember amperage is measured on the primary). I would say it indicated an inefficiency in the coil. Clearly there is a secondary winding issue in the coil because the primary seems fine but the secondary is unable to produce a full spark.
Awesome observation!!!!
I wonder if a different spark plug gap could be the reason of different secondary current.
Great question!!!!! No- it’s the coils because all the plugs had the same gap. It’s one of the things I looked at the previous day when I first had the car and was trying to find a cause for the intermittent issue. The spark plugs were actually fine- the gap was still almost exactly at spec. Maybe they were even replaced within a few years ago. Hell maybe I did it when I did the timing belt, I don’t remember hahaha
Awetsum Scrtingee. 😀
Do they replace the spark plugs when volvo says you have to? Probably that should avoid the coils failing, right? By the way, what did I see? A roundabout in the US? That was a shock! 😂
HahHahaha SOOOOO funny about the roundabout!!! Yeah they are kinda rare here and nobody know how to use them properly lol!!!!!
we got a new roundabout in Johnstown PA. YES
Colorado is going crazy over roundabouts
@@SchrodingersBox- take a drive up to Loveland, CO to try out some roundabouts. They've gone crazy around there.
Hahaha yeah Coloradans hate them because they are least high on weed and can’t negotiate the concept!!
Can you give us a list of attachments you have for the picoscope? I just bought the picoscope 4225a standard kit and transducer maxi kit. I see you have a splitter connected to each of the channels? I don’t know what it is called but it is allowing you to connect 2 test leads to one channel and are the test leads you use 3rd party? Thank you for everything and the amazing knowledge
The “splitter” is just a BNC to banana jack adapter. Some of my accessories are BNC connection and others are banana jack connection. The adapter just allows me to use my banana jack accessories since pico only has BNC. It does not split the channel.
I strongly recommend:
Low amp clamp probe (20 or 30 Amp)
High amp clamp probe (600A) useful for starter amperage/ relative compression tests
Capacitive coil probe (e.g. COP “wand”)
Those are basic necessities really. Additional ones you might consider would be:
Pressure transducer
Capacitive spark plug wire clamp (actually the cOP wand works well but this keeps it hands free)
10:1 attenuator (if you intend on doing primary circuit voltages on coils)
This could be avoided with keeping a log of parts and full system maintenance. Replace things at the end of life but before failure.
There's no way to predict coil life. And no manufacturers recommend replacing them until they fail. Just like there's no way to predict wheel bearing life, brake life and many other car parts life. I'm driving a 13 year old car with 175,000 kms on it. Coils and plugs are all original. Runs perfect and still gets good gas mileage. I replaced one wheel bearing at about 70,000 kms. The other 3 are still fine with 100,000 kms more on them than the one I replaced.
Yep David is correct. In fact this car has about 87,000 miles and not only is there not a recommended maintenance interval for coils, but plugs aren’t even recommended for 100,000 miles. The plugs seemed fine actually- the gap was almost exactly as per spec. But coils don’t have a maintenance interval and I have seen coils last over 200,000 miles and others I have had fail within 10,000 miles and others failed right out the box
@@davidquinn6161 Understood but it's either 3 years or 3000 years, as an example. So change them when you can afford to orrrrr get towed away from home. on the other points you make, antidotal doesn't make the norm, Parts are Engineered with a mathematical life expectancy, otherwise companies could not figure their bottom line. Anyway DO your preventative maintenance people.
If you're referring to spark lugs, they're not going to all suddenly fail at once. They generally start with mis fires under load. And usually only one. You can still drive just fine. No towing required. The same goes for ignition coils and many other car parts.
@@davidquinn6161 yes I understand, I have built 3 cars, I am talking about worry free motoring
Those coils fail all the time. I would always give the client the option of changing all 5. They are even date stamped from what I recall.
Agreed. Would be good to offer that as they are all the same age so every reason to suspect others are not long for life either.
Why didn't we see secondary waveforms? Perhaps that's where the obvious problem was and not primary.
We did! The capacitive probe shows secondary.
We were able to determine just with the scope that the primary is fine but the secondary is not.
Were the gaps excessive on the old plugs? Curious if there was identifiable cause for the coil failures, or if they just deteriorated with age & use.
Not in the least. The plugs looked great actually. Probably changed before I imagine.
The misfire could be the beginning of a carbon tracking from an old coil or spark plug?
For sure. I didn’t even bother to check for that but it is likely. We know it is definitely a secondary issue and not a primary ignition issue so carbon tracking is a valid variable.
@@SchrodingersBox 👍 Carbon tracking occurs when the compressed air is increased because of the resistance.
Nice job! Where can I find the scan tool in this video? Thanks
The scantool is the Phoenix Smart by TOPDON. I have a complete review and tutorial of it a couple videos ago.
Hey mat I have a p0171 and the long-term future is at 29% and while I'm driving and get on the gas it goes down to around 14% but when I went to go smoke test the car I did not find any leaks a smoke tested the car for about an hour hoping to find a leak I'm not too sure where to go from here
What does your short term trim show? You need to consider total trim. You can’t diagnose off LTFT alone.
Currently at idle my short-term fuel trim is around positive 3%
wonder what would have happened if u brake torqued it
Fantastic thinking!!! So I did brake toque it and it still never misfired. I edited it out to save time on the video b
I would have pulled the plugs before checking the coils.
0:45 Yeah, I wish Bob could be there too; Ellie aint got no sense of humor.
Aww man she was really nervous!!
I still would have tested the car with just the new plugs FIRST, then added the coils if the problem still existed Schro...
not sure I understand that strategy. What about the coil with the low KV? we know for a 100% fact we had a dead coil and at least one weak coil while the spark plugs have gap within spec and no evidence of resistance or current leakage. Replacing spark plugs would still have the known bad coils present, so why would you replace only plugs knowing 100% the coils are bad??
That would guarantee a comeback for the same issue, won’t it?
@@SchrodingersBoxagree
Great explanation Matt
Replacement of only spark plugs is temporary solution even car gone well it is for awhile
@@SchrodingersBox
I totally agree Matt. Just telling you my thought processes on those intermittents.
At first (before you dug into your diag) my thought that it was probably a faulty wire somewhere in harness. To me (though the KV was low) it wasn't low enough on that one coil to cause the engine to miss that bad at acceleration. At idle the engine ran very smooth.
With me...I would have pulled and inspected the plugs while swapping the coils...: that all I'm saying.
Scanner danner we’re are you
He’s watching and saying “nice job- you diagnosed this how I would”
Have you ever thought about giving your life over to Jesus?
Of course I have. But rationality and logic clearly provide considerably more security.