Resolve One Elephant = You Win The Game! | Against the Odds
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- This week for Against the Odds we discover that we can resolve a single Quintorius Kand and win the game on the spot in Pioneer/Explorer! What are the odds of winning with a single Elephant? Let's find out!
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0:00 Start
3:24 Match 1
11:42 Match 2
17:22 Match 3
23:05 Match 4
41:21 Match 5 - Hry
It's always fun to catch an opponent into unexpected combo. It's almost like they don't notice the elephant in the room.
i love you thank you
have a like you absolute legend
I hate you, thank you
*ba dum tss*
Pure angry upvote
Against the odds or completely with the odds?
Ran into a few builds running Eldritch evolution with Geological Appraiser. It makes the combo much faster, because it guarantees a Geological Appraiser hits Eldritch Evolution to go into the six mana Discover 5 dinosaur. It goes off turn 3 pretty easily.
@@user-dd3dz6vz7l To be honest I didn't even look at Seth's decklist. I've seen a bunch of variants on the deck and just assumed it was more or less on the same mission.
@@user-dd3dz6vz7l Ohh thats actuaally pretty smart. But running eldritch evo doesnt ruins your latter cascades?
Depends entirely on how the meta shifts. HOWEVER it can be suuuper unfair in best of 1
@@aritargownikpioneer subreddit was saying that it’s actually better to be using quint instead because of how the counterplay works for each, but they’re still really similar. Quint version is way better against something like rakdos midrange than appraiser is
This seems like it was made when the combo was being talked about as a janky thing(like in your short about it) instead of being the more solved Discover combo.
Still, kinda funny to see it as an Against The Odds
The idea that a 1 card 5-mana instant win combo with a 1 card 6-mana instant win combo backup plan (albeit with deckbuilding restrictions) could be perceived as janky is funny to me.
@@Zerothas People just weren't sure how to build it, at the time of the short the backup plan wasnt even a thing and the idea that you can't play anything below 5MV and 8~12 cards in your deck do literally nothing is a janky concept.
As it got a backup plan, ramp, and decent interaction it became pretty much Splinter Twin lol
Yeah if these matches were filmed within the last week it would be matches against the 4 mana instant win deck over and over again LOL
@@DeepCDiva
It's a one card four mana splinter twin. Geological Appraiser hits Discover 3 for Eldritch Evolution which gets the six mana Discover 5 dino which either gets a clone, Quintorius, or Eldritch Evo.
@@user-dd3dz6vz7l how does it work exactly? I can see that you can keep going if you hit the Eldritch Evolution from the Discoveries of either Geological Appraiser or Trumpeting Carnosaur. But if you hit Eldritch Evolution with the discovery of Quintorius Kand, you don't have a creature to sac. Doesn't that fizzle the combo? If I understand correctly, there is also a risk that you run out of Eldritch Evolutions before you run out of Geological Appraisers during the combo, if you hit them in the wrong order. Then the Combo would fizzle on the Geological Appraiser that has no Discovery targets. Am I messing this up?
40:05 you missed lethal, the nissa lands have vigilance so you could have attacked then before blocks tapped the land to bounce the cottage
Ohh, you are right. Oops!
Seth in every against the odds video ever since I started watching in 2015:
"Is this deck actually good?"
:'D
For counters, Mirrorshell Crab seems like the obvious counterspell to run.
Yeah, that one does work with the mana value restriction, although needing eight mana to combo off is rough. Still might be worth some sideboard slots though.
Thryx the Sudden Storm would help with quintorius, but not for the subsequent clones.
That win against mono green lmao…not quiet a super skill intensive victory but so satisfying 😂
It always feels good to beat that deck, even if it did require getting super lucky :)
The skill of drawing the exact card that you needed.
Seth is Yugi of magic
Shoutout to Seth predicting that Quintorius was gas in the podcast. Tbh I thought he was trippin, glad I was wrong
he is the voice of reason in a world with Crims and Richards.
Keep the Pioneer/Explorer content coming.
31:22 I think it was actually a mega brain move to let you get the first copy off. You rolled into a clever impersonator so if they killed Quintorious you could just copy Nissa or ren, by waiting for a spark double they are able to fizzle all value all at once
Quintorius Kand is my favorite new historic brawl deck, mostly built around his static ability.
Seth's misreads are always crazy, but someone explain to me how he gets "Carnosaur" to be "Ceredon".
Yeah he keeps calling it Ceredon. I am like why Seth. It is a Carnosaur.
Gield of Guin
It made my brain turn to pudding
He’s the product of the American public school system
Maybe a creature land or two would help with the control match up as you at least have *something* to put some pressure on?
Agreed, especially since so many lands enter tapped already
You can also run keruga literally for free
@@demiurge2501 would you be able to even with the split cards?
@@ther3aper561 split cards count as the combined cost of both sides for mana value so they should be fine with Keruga
@@1997Awesomedude That's what I was wondering, thank you!
That top deck at 10:45 was insane
Better lucky than good ;)
Hearing ceradon instead of carnasaur every time was rough. Really cool deck though! And that top deck- wow.
It’s such a bizarre pronunciation I’m wondering if it’s on purpose to further engagement and comments on the video.
@@rootfish2671 In that case, it worked! Congrats Seth!
I think 2 Cavern of Souls for the Dino might be the trick to beating control. Maybe not beating but might help.
Hmmmmm maybe, they can always counter the discover trigger, but maybe they side out removal
@@dougisacat Yea, they likely counter whatever you discover, but at least there's a dino lol
The thing is, you don't even need to exactly counter it to disrupt the combo. Any removal spell will just fizzle the clone spell, and control just got a very good new one in get lost in addition to the previous ones they alrdy have. The winning list is playing 4 thought distortions in the sideboard and I think that really speaks to how bad the control matchup is lol.
Yeah, although the awkward part is they can just counter what we discover into, so if they have a counter it can probably still fizzle the combo (although at least we'd have a big DIno to beat down with).
@@MTGGoldfish Yea that was my thought. Probably doesn't increase the odds by much
You can't give a Planeswalker trample!
Saffron: "Hold my Beer."
Spot on.😂
the black virtue is pretty good in the deck, since it not only is early game removal, but also can allow us to reanimate the carnasaurus to start the combo late game, and the crab from kamigawa (IDR the name) is also pretty good, channeling it for a mana leak
Channel works fine, but sadly Adventures count towards Discover. It will unfortunately break the combo if he was to run them.
@@Pyrotro Discover 4 would miss the Virtue entirely, as it only checks the mana value of the base card while exiling. It just can't cast the adventure if the adventure is too large (for example, Bramble Familiar).
Virtue of Persistence would be a decent option for the deck.
@@Scherezad_ Really, cause I've had discover 3s hit grabby giant cause of its adventure I feel like
It's a good thing that you didn't forget to add the real Quintoriuses this time 😅
I shook with excitement with the lucky draw at the end of match 1.
I ran into this deck on ladder! I was on mono-white soldiers and managed to stop the combo before it went completely off the rails thanks to Thalia’s taxing effect, ironic considering the Thalia-Quntorious meme going around lol. Opponent discovered into Mythos, but Thalia’s tax still has to be paid on Discovered spells, so it had to go to hand, giving enough time to finish them off.
This deck is so sweet, thanks for making the video. I've been playing a similar deck in Standard since LCI release and dominating my local standard events, bringing back cascade was SUCH a mistake.
Would be awesome to know your list if you find time!
It's hard to believe they didn't see this coming. So, toxic for profit?
From a design standpoint, I genuinely wonder what the motivation was to bring cascade back.
Making every match play out the same has repeatedly been stated as being the single biggest sin a mechanic can commit, and that's all that cascade does, again and again and again.
Was it hubris? Did they think they could somehow make it work this time? Not that I think this deck is broken or anything, but it would be pretty interesting to see what goes on in those design meetings.
Yeah. Watching this I'm just continually going "why did they think this was a good idea"
If Discover meant you had to hit a spell EXACTLY the cmc of the discover number, it would be a lot more balanced... But guess WotC just forgot how good cascade is.
Happens to the best of us
@@lelandgill3631No lol. It would be much better because you could play cheap interaction and still get your combo
To increase demand of the new cards and to make money.
This is exactly the kind of deck I love. I had most of the cards already, so easy build. I love that while the mechanic is the same for Carnosaur or Kand, the deck has more than one way to victory.
I definitely love playing this deck over the one with the appraiser. The Appraiser version is just too consistent. This one is fun and more fair/interact able with more countermagic that hits Quintorius. Really have had a lot of fun with it.
Shefet Monitor would be cool in this deck. It rampant growths when you cycle and dodges discover 4.
29:25 should have consigned the nissa here I think, if they tap in response you can just combo off in main phase 2
The fact that you top decked that quint was totally against the odds. Couldn't ask for a more fitting end.
@39:48 you had the win because the lands have vigilance! if you declare attacks, hold priority and bounce the creature land with skyturtle, you win!
amazing deck idea. I love it so much
Is it worth it to play Expansion//Explosion? It has a CMC of 6 but the copy site could be played for 2 to copy the opponents counterspells, essentially allowing you to play a counter?
Very funny combo but I feel like this is the kind of MTGGoldfish video where for my own sanity, I should probably avoid the explorer queue for the next few days…
29:30 I think you could have just Consigned the Nissa so they didn't have 2 mana?
That was my thought. Consign nissa, move to main phase 2
Win
That was sweet as usual Seth. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving!
i think „discovery//dispersal“ would give this deck a solid cantrip that works with discover to improve consistency. being also a lategame interactive spell is just a bonus at this point
Very surprised we didnt see Horned Loch-Whake as one of the removal spells. It's a direct upgrade over Warrant//Warden and is significantly better than many of the other spells chosen. Anyway, great video!
14:30 you are supposed to target a Trumpeting Carnosaur with Mythos of Illuna. That way you have more clones to hit and you still get your drain in.
These combo decks are everywhere now.
For counters, I think Thryx, the Sudden Storm would be great sideboard tech for this deck. It's legal in historic, it costs 5, it has flash so it can get around a counterspell against control, and it makes both Quintorius and Carnosaur uncounterable.
always love the called shots - 11:00
Rewatching this video 3 months later. A good new addition to the clone army showed up. Surgical Metamorph. Its an alchemy card but its a 4 mana clone card that has the alchemy effect "this spell costs 1 less if you werent the starting player" its clone effect is straight better than Clever impersonator in that it can become lands as well. Which is an incredibly useful line of text. In match 3 of your games you made the mention of "if this was mythos...it would be fine because we could copy a land" The surgical metamorph allowing you to play it as a land would of saved your game. it having the alchemy ability that reduces its cost based on you not being the starting player is also really useful. its not uncommon for decks to want to spend 3 mana on a ramp spell that gives them a single tapped land. In this case its even better than that as if you're on the draw you have a 3 mana ramp spell that gives you an untapped land. Which is extremely useful in and game that Goes into top deck mode. Imagine you're playing a U/G deck and your deck got shut down to the point that you need to hit an answer or a blocker on your next draw to keep from dying next turn. then your heart of the cards draw. is a cultivate. Welp thats it you concede. now same scenario same deck, but this time you top deck Surgical Metamorph. And you're able to instead of getting a land you Copy their Biggest unit buying you a turn with a single blocker. Or even copy their Lilliana Planeswalker and force them to sacrifice their two creatures, or copy their Teferi and bounce their biggest creature. its not a PERFECT solution but it can be all three: a 3 or 4cmc: 1-land ramp spell, Combo piece, or a Tempo swinging Copy spell.
Recently i started using it in my timeless Agent of treachery deck to teach arena zoomers why Agent was banned. the Incredible tempo swings i get from playing an agent onto the battlefield while my opponent has 1 untapped land and i have 9 mana total (lands+mana rocks) and i steal the untapped land, then copy the agent with Surgical Metamorph to steal another threat. Forcing my opponent to have the answer to my agents or risk me comboing off with more shapeshifters. In addition my deck runs Reflections of littjara naming "Shapeshifter" along side the alchemy card "snowborn simulacra" Being able to play turn 3 Powerstone shard > t4: Metamorph (copying the shard)> t5 Agent > t6 Reflection + Shapeshiters. > Snowborn Simulacra targeting the powerstones + all Surgical metamorphs on the field. Every surgical i play after Reflection hits copies 1 reflection and 1 agent then the following one will copy 1 reflection + 2 other targets....etc etc...
You mentioned the deck having issues with counterspells, and it feels like Chimil is a great fit since it also Discovers every end step. Could leave an elephant sitting in the open to be sniped, but it feels worth a try.
Discover lets you choose to put the thing in your hand instead of casting it.
@@Jesin00 Of course! I forgot that because Seth's sitting over the options, so I didn't see him choosing here :D
10:45 Seth, better known as SaffronPharaoh... Straight up heart of the cards draw.
Seth you could run the version of discovery that uses the 4 drop discover 3 and eldritch evolution and Glasspool Mimic to discover into Carnisaur and then finish with the last Eldritch Evo to get a Doomskar Titan for +1/+0 and haste
This might be my favorite deck in recent years. I loved Quintorius, Field Historian in Strixhaven and had a pretty aggressive Lorehold deck at the time. So happy he became a recurred character in the story and is popping back up on this pw card in Lost Caverns.
I've had to preboard my control deck because I've been playing against this or the geologist version for 60% of my games lol
For anti-countermagic, running Mirrorshell Crab could do some work. Not unconditional, but is versatile.
Thought Distortion against control. At least that's my thought. That takes care of people holding counters as well as those holding removal.
This deck is literally Missisippi River deck, but for Pioneer. In legacy you may put Force of Will and lands that grant us two mana for sacrifice
This is horrible fun and I love it.
Glad we could show mono green devotion who the real elephant in the room is
I agree, this is a legit deck. It feels like a meta choice type of deck. That one super annoying deck that is 65/35 if you're prepared for it and 20/80 if you're not.
Keruga is free in this deck right? You are taking off turn four pretty frequently so you'll get it to your hand many games. It's nearly always a vanilla 5/4 in the deck, but every once in a while you'll buy yourself a turn.
Thought Distortion might be better than Chandra against control (4BB, sorcery can't be countered, target opponent discards all noncreature, nonland cards).
Don't forget that you can clone your opponent's stuff with two of your spells.
I'd love to see you stream this again in the coming months with some tuning!
I have also fought against a version that runs the 4 drop red creature that disovers 3 with eldritch evolutions for carnosaur and a haste enabler, running 8 3 drop copy effects.
I quickly put together a WRG Quintorius Discover deck after the set was released on Arena. I'm currently at 8-0 in casual Standard match-ups so far. Not bad. It could definitely use some tweaks as I forced myself to only use cards from the new Ixalan. It's surprisingly good (or not surprisingly since it's basically Cascade all over again, lol)!
Ridiculous.
I love it 😀
Around minute 30:00 couldn't you bounce nissa at the end of opponent's turn to deny them the extra mana during your turn and win?
no they'd still have 4 mana for the counter spell unless they had been baited into countering the bounce spell
Just want to say first opponent's name was Licid. The best creature type
chimil might be a good way to fight through counters. It is 6 mana, but like you said in the very long matchup that is control, you should have time to try to slam one or at least force your opponent to counter/tap-out
What app/program are you using for your deck build layout at the beginning of the video?
Someone played their version of this against me on arena explorer. They brought in thought distortion to wreck my handful counters plan. Next time I’ll bring in leyline of sanctity against this deck game two.
Ngl, I got absolutely stomped into the dirt by this earlier today.
I dont know if you read these, but you were asking about a way to get around counterspells and a cavern of souls naming dinosaur could make your carnosaur uncounterable. Hope this helps
Thought Distortion? Yeah, I too thought this should be a good option.
Is it possible to do this with the new bloodbread elf? Maybe there isn't enough copy spells that cost 3.
Horned Loch Whale seems like a good fit here? It doesn't break the combo, and gives a better solution to aggro since they have to re-draw whatever you bounce, instead of them just recasting?
I am confused if someone can explain:
How does Spark Double and the other clone cards create a copy of Quintorius but the legendary rule does not trigger?
I am building this deck for modern and would like to know. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps out.
I wonder if maybe this deck preys on the 4 cmc version of the deck by playing interaction on 3 and/or 4, then goong off on 4 or 5. Might be too hard to find good interaction that doesnt mess with the combo...but maybe not?🤔
Wow such innovation
discover is such a cool mechanic
I think the real question is if there is a way to fight counterspells with this deck building restrictions. Becuase the combo IS strong, but it just hard looses to an opponent holding counters, or a way to go more into amidrange value plan. That sultai game made me think that maybe you do sometimes play this as a midrange? like playing dinos and copying leyline bindings and creating elephant tokens might there against an opponent that wont let you combo
The Heart of the Cards plays favorites XD
it’s probably better to play a few less clones to slightly up the interaction package.
Is mirrorshell crab relevant for beating counters?
Like this way more than the 4 mana discover deck cuz that's so one dimensional. this isnt muuuch better in that department but it definitely feels like there's way more room to play around interaction and go at it from different angles than just relying on resolving one 4 drop or bust.
Aren't there a bunch of split cards that let you fight countermagic? Commit//Memory, Expansion//Explosion, Failure//Comply, Reduce//Rubble, Mirrorshell Crab? I don't know how good any of those would play, but I do know Warrant//Warden is not very good.
Great stuff as always.
Since color isn't a real issue In this deck (because of the triomes and the treasures) isn't the 6 mana mass duress from hand and grave an auto include in this against control? (Forgot the card's name though 😅)
Against the Sultai control deck, you could have won immediately by bouncing the manland after declaring attackers with your vigilance land instead of during your main phase. 😁
40:00
Just Consign the Leyline and ult a Quint, right? Am I missing something?
I mean, doesn't really matter with all those tokens and planeswalkers - it was basically garbage time at that point - but still, seems like a pretty straightforward victory
For six mana you can cast Thought Distortion to clear the way for next turn. But, opponent could top deck a counter. So give that whatever odds you think appropriate. For a seven mana you can improve your odds by having Emergence Zone out so you can cast Thought Distortion at the end of opponent’s turn. They could have something like Mirrorshell that Thought Distortion wouldn’t touch so still not a sure thing.
isnt this a slower version of the geological appraiser combo? its wins through burn but both are unstoppable
Could maybe run Chimil The Inner Sun? It's over your Discover limit and it makes spells uncounterable and could have you discover into Quintorious at random on your end step.
I learned the "as this enters the battlefield" effect still works against M.O.M 😅
Did you get a new camera? Or new lighting? Looks great! Also great deck lol
Could you not run the Macrosage for your companion? You already meet the requirement.
Mirror-Shell Crab, Chandra and Chimil are the only things I can think of vs counterspells, maybe Bound//Determined in modern
Expansion explosion also works
@@Jacob-yq5hy that's awesome, the fork anti-counterspell tech
The other discover combo is Turn 3... same thing but with Dinos
I wanna know how you got those sleeves
Shifting Ceratops might be a pretty good sideboard card
I think vanquish the horde is needed for the mono-white match up
I laughed that you'd actually try this bo3, im curious lol!
I think match 4 shows that Seth tunneled so hard on the combo kill that he forgot how combat worked. He had lethal the turn he was dithering how he had no way to cast a spell from exile and found a way to lose that lethal XD
what was the line?
There was a food token and a blocker. I think he had to use his creature land to remove the blocker. Where's the win? Am I missing it?
This commenter tunneled so hard on backseating Seth that they forgot how food worked XD
Food is a thing mate
@@ekiM2K both lands were vigilant because of nissa. Attack with both then bounce the blocker.
I have a feeling this is the next Hammer Time of Against the Odds; a seemingly jank deck that turns out to be genuinely competitively viable
At 29:54 you stated "Quopy Quintorius" and I petition this hereby be the name of this deck.
yooooooooo that's a nasty combo
Man, I was gonna try and make a deck like this but I don’t have the wildcards and now it may seem like I’m net decking, great deck tho
These titles, STRAIGHT TO THE POINT = ---> •
Sickest match one in a while... what heartbreak.
Why the snow-covered plains? Any particular reason?
Elephant taking a trip down the missisipi river
14:10 "Well if you don't get a quintorious you just run them over with carnosaurs."
35:32 great moment in a great game
Funny to think about how the Mono White Deck didn't see any of the combo and was probably super confused about what Seth was doing.
Really fun looking deck though