E158 - Pache Out as Sánchez Fails to Touch Base During Intentional Walk & Jean Ejects Patrick Wisdom
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- HP Umpire James Jean ejected Cubs batter Patrick Wisdom after a strike three call before 1B Umpire Cory Blaser called Marlins pinch runner Cristian Pache out for teammate Jesús Sánchez's failure to touch first base during an intentional walk when Chicago appealed the play. Report: www.closecalls...
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The Official Baseball Rule requires a batter-runner touch first base during a bases on balls or other similar base award, and this includes prior to the player being substituted for. The substitute cannot correct the original BR's baserunning infraction meaning if the defense appeals, the substitute runner shall be declared out for the violation of the preceding teammate. - Sport
Kudos to the Marlin's manager for respectfully getting the explanation for the appeal call, without coming across like he's begging for leniency, or trying to make a show of "oh come on; you've got to let the guys just PLAY". He got the explanation, looked like he asked for clarification, nodded, and went back to his dugout to relay it not just to the players but also the coaching staff. Because, yeah, as the announcers said in the clip at the end of this video, the 1st base coach dropped the ball, I would say even more so than the player.
He got bulshtted. Should have asked for a call to NY. The cites are not relevant. We had a legal sub during a dead ball. The sub touched his awarded base, which, in dact, did not force anyone. The box has the sub put out while he was standing on 1B. Why? MLB will explain.
@@jamesmurray3948 I'm pretty sure the batter was called out, not the pinch runner.
@@srellison561 Box has Pache putout by F1 to F3. I don't know if that's a stat that would make a difference to Pache.
@@jamesmurray3948 There is no need to call NY. Did you bother to watch the video where the rule was explained? The batter-runner never touched first base which is required by rule. This was the correct call.
@@jamesmurray3948So, if a player misses 2nd on a triple and while he's standing on third, before the next pitch or appeal, he gets subbed for. He can't be called out? Think about that for a second.
That second call is a travel ball/men's league special. Make sure the batter/runner touches 1st base before time is granted because there's always that one coach that is watching and waiting for him not to touch 1st lol
In Jomboy’s breakdown of the Pache/Sanchez play, he points out that the home plate umpire is pointing at and presumably talking to Sanchez. Seems like listening to an umpire shouldn’t cause you to get out, but I don’t know if the rules have anything to say about that.
And the award for the dumbest out of the month goes to-
James Jean
This was a very Marlins mistake, ugh.
I will say this is also MLB legislating itself into foolishness.
The Marlins' manager is as much to blame for Sanchez's failure to touch first. Wait until he reaches first to call time and bring out the pinch runner. They called him back before he reached first. Good job by the Cubs to spot it.
These guys get paid millions of dollars to play a game….. You could at least learn the rules.😂
@@another_jt Don't forget the 1b coach, who is 3 feet away and has no other job in this situation.
This is 100% on the 1B Coach. One of your responsibilities is to make sure they touch the base. He should have been yelling for him to come back and just touch it before heading off the field.
@@oren000 Sure, but even the announcers called Jon Jay out for failing to help as the 1B coach, as well as probably about half this video's comments.
seems like none of those 3 knew the rules, neither the player nor the 1B coach nor the manager.
Florida's 1st base coach forgot to do his homework. We could see him telling the runner to stop and go back to the dugout.
and obviously the manager also doesnt know the rules..........but hey, its the Marlins
My first reaction as well, this is on the coaches for not telling the batter to touch first or waiting to bring in the PR until the batter touches first.
That was quite funny :
1. Intentional base on balls lead to the quick sub. As if they are thinking ahead.
2. Sanchez (runner) being blocked by first base coach as if being told : "What are you doing here. Didn't anyone tell you that you were being subbed out if he walked."
3. Sanchez being yelled at by another coach "why didn't you touch first base? " Sanchez defending himself : "I was gonna but he blocked the plate yelling what are you doing here"
I know they are trying to quicken the pace of the game but Skip gets no respect by being too quick. Skip going out getting a clarification just like a little league coach. I mean 99.99℅ of fans (including me) didn't know that rule but seeing it transpire, I couldn't help get a chuckle.
I think because of how quickly everything happened, even if an equipment violation was issued, it may have been a situation similar to the Jurickson Profar ejection back in April.
Confirming what I've always suspected, that a first base coach is completely f'ing useless.
That was the right call by the home plate umpire (#61/James Jean). My hat is off to him in respect.
So, let me ask this... in the course of the strike 3 mechanic, the bat flip... could there have been a verbal equipment warning, that we don't see with the standard point, followed by a 2nd equip violation for the helmet spike that leads to the ejection?
Weird rule since you can substitute out if the runner cannot reach the base due to injury. Why differentiate if the person is hurt or not?
(that is right isn't it? If you are entitled to the base and are injured you can get a pinch runner to get to that base for you)
Yes, that is correct. Hey, it's baseball. The book low key needs a complete rewrite.
wait, why can't the pinch runner step on the base and it counts? If a batter is hit by pitch in the head and has to come out, obviously that batter doesn't have to make it to first. Is it because time wasn't called yet when the pinch runner came in?
The rule is that the player must complete all dead ball awards before being substituted. The only exception is for injury.
Great video! Well explained.
If the batter runner is injured, they wouldn't be forced to touch first, correct? (In the case of being hbp in the face, for example. )
My question as well. The passage cited specifically mentioned base on balls, not HBP. So I assume that is addressed elsewhere.
Imagine in today’s concussion protocol world if a batter gets nailed in the head and gets removed on a stretcher.
I really hope MLB has this correct in the rule book.
Hit by pitch is different than a walk. That's a dead ball
@mikecumbo7531 might not be correct in the rulebook, but might be open enough that the catch all rule where umpires get to rule on situations not specifically covered in the rulebook.
@@voncornhole but, does the rule book mention this?
I know I've seen times when a batter gets hit by a pitch and is unable to take first base on his own because of his injury. How does that work regarding a pinch runner? Would it be the same situation where the batter would be out for not touching first? If not, what rule provides the exception?
That was a bit bizarre.
I can't say that I ever seen something like that before. Weird.Where was the first base coach?
No kidding, you would have thought he learned that in little league. Run!
@@Alboaltoddly enough, for some reason, standing with his foot touching first base telling the batter-runner to go to the dugout.
Frank Costanza invented the stopping short move.
I 💓💓💓 your videos explaining baseball rules since it makes watching the games so much more enjoyable. I did have a good chuckle at the Sanchez base running mistake. I thought mistakes like this were only done at the Little League level.
I get the failing to touch first call, but I gotta say, with the way the intentional walk is now, I can see how that is overlooked. The guy walks up to plate, they say, walk him, manager says pinch runner, the go turns around and the pinch runner takes the base.
I realize that's not what the rules say now, but I wouldn't see an issue of changing it.
The intentional walk makes the batter a batter-runner. In *all* cases, the batter-runner must reach and touch 1B or else be called out on appeal. Changing the rule would simply add to the exceptions and complexity that people claim exists in the baseball rulebook. Changing it would be a bad idea.
@@teebob21 I know what the rule is. To claim this is they way it has to be just begs the question.
@@flowingafterglow629 That's not what begging the question is, and I already explained why the way that it currently is written is better than making a change.
Frank Costanza invented the stopping short move.
This is a stealth obscure ruling video.
I'm so baffled when I see a player do stuff like this and base coaches not yelling at him to come to first base. Do they not teach the rules anymore?
It sounds like he broke the helmet. It hit the dirt, not the plate. Is breaking the helmet "severe?" If he had just acted like a professional then we wouldn't be having this debate.
He could’ve been mad at himself for taking a close pitch, not at the ump
@@MyBiPolarBearMax it's the optics, or in this case for me, the acoustics. Slamming the helmet hard enough for it to make that sound is begging to be ejected
@@feartheprocess so if he did the exact same thing but it hit the dirt so it didnt break its fine?
The "and" in the final sentence seems important here. "If they fail to touch the base to which they are entitled AND attempt to advance beyond the base they may be put out..." Seems like the guy who didn't touch the base did not attempt to advance, so that rule should not apply as written. The substitute runner would have tried to advance, but he touched the base, so that's also only fulfilling one of the two criteria.
I really wish you would address the "before other base runners are forced to advance" part of the comment. It is very clear to any casual fan that when there is a walk with runners on 1st, that R1 does NOT stick around and wait for the BR to reach first and give him a high five before advancing to second. Despite this the defense never attempts to tag R1 while he is between 1st and 2nd.
In fact we routinely see this comment ignored. R1 goes on the pitch, catcher throws to 2nd to try and get an out on the steal, tag is made on the steal so the runner should be out... but its a ball. R1 is entitled to second. That is clearly contrary to the comment.
WTF?
Last night John Tumpane ejected Carl Willis for arguing foul ball and Paul Clemons ejected Wilyer Abreu for arguing strike 2
I think there are more Black umpires in MLB than Black players
I think the guys in the dugout at the end were intentionally speaking super clearly so Jomboy will have a better chance to tell us what they're saying lol.
So how could they call time for the substitute if the runner did not finish the play?
Easily. The umpires raise the hands and says time.
It is not the umpire's job to coach the runner.
Time was already out b/c of the IBB.
@@pacificcoasttrains3785 Under NFHS rules, it is a dead ball. Nowhere under OBR does it say the ball is dead on an IBB.
Frank Costanza invented the stopping short move.
I have been an umpire for 33 years, college and high school. I have never worked a MLB game for reference, it does seem that all the new umpires in the majors have very short fuses with ejections.
I think it's a good thing, because it sends a message to divas not to act out.
@@Alboalt No it’s a bad thing. Fans don’t want to see ump shows.
@@DJTexan i umped little league 50 yrs ago a kid threw a base at me i tossed him
@@DJTexan this is an ump show because ejection standard was not met, but not liking when it is met and correctly officiated as an ejection in other cases is not.
Many ejections this season have been for arguing correct calls.
@@DJTexan The problem is I don't want to watch a diva show, either. Unfortunately umpires are forced to act unseemly to be able to have control of games long term. If they don't, the players and managers really will walk all over them.
Wisdom has been struggling at the plate all season…he’s either hitting bombs or striking out and it’s been mostly the latter…which explains why he hasn’t started for a long time. This is either his 2nd or 3rd start in 2 weeks
Sorry Lindsay I gotta disagree.
Bat drop... boths hands up in the air... helmet slam...that's 3 demonstrative actions and your OUT! Show me the first 2 and you're still in the game. Add that violent helmet slam on top of those other 2...Good bye baby boy. You aint showing me up because YOU misjudged those perfect pitches.
“A batter who is [walked]…must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance.”
This makes it sound like R1 isn’t protected walking to second until runner-batter touches first after a walk. What does this part of the rule mean if not that?
Runners forced to advance on a walk are permitted to advance without liability to be put out. Rule 5.06(b)(3)(B).
@@teebob21 I think what they mean is that the way the rules are written, outside of common sense, a team could argue that if runner attempted to go to the next base before the batter-runner touched first they are not forced to advance yet and therefore are not protected from liability and could be tagged out.
It's one of those cases of logic says one thing but what's written says another.
@@duelist301 No, what is literally written in the rulebook in 5.06(b)(3)(B) states that the runners on base who are forced to advance on a walk are permitted to advance without liability to be put out.
@@teebob21 Runners who are "forced to advance" being the key words. The rules also state that a runner is not "forced to advance" on a walk until the batter runner touches first base. Therefore if a batter has not touched first base by rule as written the other runners are not "forced to advance" and therefore 5.06(b)(3)(B) would not protect them early. Hence why I said the difference between logical and what is written.
@@teebob21 That is exactly the point. R1 (runner standing at 1st) can advance to 2nd when forced, but the comment clearly identifies that being "forced to advance" only happens when Batter-Runner reaches and touches 1st.
"Rule 5.05(b)(1) Comment: A batter who is entitled to first base because of a base on balls... must go to first base and touch the base before other base runners are forced to advance."
Until the BR touches 1st, R1 is not forced to advance, and if R1 is not forced then neither is R2/R3 etc.
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Suppose its a tie game, bottom of the 9th bases loaded, 2 outs.
Batter hits a home run, but sticks around home plate to celebrate with his team. This has happened before and we know how it works. By failing to advance to 1st, the home run doesn't count. The runner is out. You can't score any runs until the batter reaches first. Game goes to extra innings.
You would have the same logic with ball 4. The BR is entitled to 1st, but if he doesn't go there then he is liable to be out. So what do we make of the situation where he sticks around and celebrates with his team as R3 comes in and stomps on the plate?
* By analogy to the home run situation there must be some mechanism by which the defense can "vacate the walk" for failure of the BR to advance.
* But in a normal ball 4 situation its a live ball, so steals are allowed.
If the defense waits until R3 crosses home and appeals at 1st the ruling would be: BR is out at 1st for failure to touch, but it doesn't matter anyways because R3 stole home during a live ball.
So naturally the proper thing to say is "Catcher needs to tag R3 as he walks into home." But for the catcher to want to do that R3 needs to lack protection, so we need to deny protection until a runner is forced to advance.
To keep our analogy to the walk off home run, anything base running failure that could be treated as an appeal play 3rd out must be interpreted as a lack of Base on Balls protection for the base runners.
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At a minimum BR needs to reach and touch 1st before any base runners start walking to their next base. Perhaps even more strictly you are supposed to wait at your base until the prior baserunner comes up and stands on it. Only once you are both standing on the same base can you say "I'm now forced to advance and am entitled to protection."
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HOWEVER, we do in practice see many situations where tags on forced walks occur. Example: R1 goes on the pitch to try and steal 2nd... he gets tagged out... but the pitch is a ball. I'm sure this has happened numerous times, and you never see the guy called out. Instead the umpires just act like he was entitled to the base?!?!
I don't understand why this comment in the rule is ignored as much as it is.
This brings up a related question. Batter is hit by pitch, charges mound, benches clear, batter is ejected. Substitute runner is put on first. The batter never touched first base. Would the same or similar rule apply?
being ejected is the main point. Or if he was injured. He couldve run back to 1st base until he entered the dugout. This is on more than just the runner.
HBP results in a dead ball. The substitute runner can take 1B. The ball is still live after a BB, intentional or not. Runners have been known to steal second when the team in the field falls asleep.
@@mikeprevost8650 Thanks Mike. Good explanation.
Wait. I've seen batters go to first of they got hit by a pitch... see Giancarlo Stanton. Is that maybe just teams being respectful?
Blue (funny name for a man in black) may have been about to give a warning for the bat but the second violation occurred too quickly thereafter.
What signal does the manager give for an intentional out, rather than an intentional walk. Cause I think they're going to be a fan of that going forwards.
Can anyone clarify when and or if any of the umpires called time? It wouldn’t change the outcome of the play, I just want to understand why he stopped short of touching 1B…
I'm pretty sure an intentional walk granted by the umpire occurs during a dead ball period (umpire calls time, awards the IBB).
@@pacificcoasttrains3785 Correct…so then my question is…It the ball is dead immediately upon the acknowledgment of the umpire of the intentional walk, an appeal play under OBR rules must be made when the ball is live as stated under rule 5.09c. Did the plate umpire put the ball back into play thus allowing the defense to run a proper appeal?
@@1969ETypewouldn't the ball be considered back in play when it is in the possession of the pitcher in his proper position on the mound? He then steps off and throws to the base, just like in any other appeal play.
@@GaryDodgerfan So, the play by rule is immediately dead once the umpire grants the intentional walk. OBR rules do not allow for a dead ball appeal of a runner or in this case the batter/runner missing the touch of the base. Technically, the ball is then not back in play or live by rule until the plate umpire puts the ball back into play. Typically, they will point at F1 who has the ball on the mound and say, “Play…” I did not see the ball put back into play here following the intentional walk so, in my judgement while there is no question the batter/runner never touched 1B, the appeal was not done properly as the ball was never put back into play officially by the umpire.
Any high school or travel ball umpire (who uses a courtesy runner all the time) would know this.
Curious about injury situations. Is it correct that this same requirement doesn't apply to a HBP?
Correct
A hit by pitch, by definition, always results in a dead ball. Unless they have changed the rules recently to cover the no-pitch IBB, walks aren't dead balls. If a pitcher throws ball four wild (on an intentional walk or otherwise), the baserunners are permitted to move up whether forced to or not and beyond what they are entitled to.
@@GaryDodgerfan The no-pitch IBB is a dead ball by rule.
BUT, if Sanchez blew his knee out jogging down to first he would be allowed a substitute, who would then touch first on his behalf during the dead ball. Seems a silly distinction. Lindsay has quite blatantly greyed out "and attempt to advance" for the missed based appeal part of a BB. Nobody tried to advance, and the substitute was standing on first base when called out for "missing" first base. I get it, Sanchez missed the base by choice, not an injury that prevented him from doing so. Just seems an odd place to draw the line.
No injury here.
Batter runner looked completely fine (injury wise) to me here. TOUCH THE BASE! They take home runs away for missed bases. Might seem like a silly distinction to you, but you need to explain how.
He NEVER touched the base so it was a ILLEGAL SUBSTITUTION.
@@fifiwoof1969 Umm...yes...that's what I said.
@@fifiwoof1969 Like I said...he gets called for missing the base before the sub is made, when the pinch runner touched the base after the sub (he was standing on the base when the appeal was made)...however, if Sanchez had pulled up lame on his way to first base, he would be allowed a substitution, and as long as that pinch runner touched first base, the appeal would be denied.
Follow up question: if the batter is called out, does that rewind the clock and allow them to keep the batter in the game as if they never pinch ran for him?
No. A substitute is officially in the game when he takes the place of the runner he has replaced, when he enters as a pinch runner, even if the substitution has not yet been reported to the plate umpire. Rule 5.10(j)(4).
No, the substitution has been made.
@@teebob21that makes little sense as the umpire has to grant time in order for there to be a substitution, and they can't grant time while a runner is between bases like that.
So the only way there can be a substitution is if the umpire has already determined that the BR has abandoned trying to run the bases and is out.
So I think the umpires made a mistake in some way. More generally I think the whole "appeal play" aspect of baseball is a bit screwy and should be more limited. No other sport allows umpires to see a villain of the rules and ignore it in this way, and it causes no end of follow-on issues and matters for the rules to address.
@@ericblair5731 Not true on two counts. First, the BR is only out on a proper appeal by the defense. Second, American football and hockey are examples of two other sports where the offended team can choose to ignore or decline the penalty, if doing so is to their advantage.
When Wisdom flipped the bat, Jean should have pointed to indicate the equipment violation then the ejection for slamming the helmet would be correct. Without that mechanic, the ejection looks premature.
The bat drop was completely normal and not even warnable for a 3rd out of the inning.
@@sfan2767
The bat drop was normal ... for a player disagreeing with an umpire's decision and wanting to let everyone else know of his disdain for the umpires capabilities.
(Fixed it for ya)
@@bhamsoxfan72 I think he was upset with himself, not the call. He never even looked at the umpire, or said anything, until he was ejected.
@@bhamsoxfan72 exactly.
@@bhamsoxfan72 You've never seen a player drop their bat after striking out to end the inning?
As for failing to touch first base before being pinch-ran for, one exception to being vulnerable to being put out by appeal would have to be when the batter-runner is HBP and is not capable of making it to first due to the injury inflicted by that HBP. Another would be if he somehow gets ejected before he makes it to first. I don't know if that same batter-runner could still be put out by appeal when there are less than two outs, and another runner scores a walk-off winning run due to the defense paying not enough attention to the scoring runner or committing an error trying to prevent that score.
The scenario where a player is injured or incapacitated and is unable to complete his baserunning duties is explicitly covered under rule 5.12(b)(3)(A).
No runs shall count in any play in which the batter-runner fails to reach and touch 1B, and is put out for the 3rd out of the half-inning. When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base. Rules 5.08(b) and 5.09(c)(2).
An ejected runner is not removed from the game until all playing action had stopped. So, let's say after ball 4 a batter-runner turns to the umpire and says something that gets him run. He still could (and must) go and touch first base. Otherwise, he would be called out on appeal. I believe there was a case in the last couple years where a player got ejected rounding third. He still finished the trot and the run counted.
@@teebob21 "less than two outs"?
"He didn't even slide!"
I can see this as being an ejection, but I wouldn't have thrown him out.
How do you have an ejection without throwing him out? Must be a new kind of ejection where he continues to play?
@@fifiwoof1969 I can see it, doesn't mean I would have done it myself.
@PapaVanTwee5 throwing your equipment? Clear ejection for me - no excuses. Grow up, act like an adult, tomorrow - your DONE for today!
Don't know why Lindsay said she'd only warn him - doesn't take much for something to go wrong and thrown gear to hit someone like an umpire - should cop LOOOOONG suspension if that happens. Does he feel tough for showing his frustration? Doesn't look it - having a tantrum, but no need to throw shit.
@@fifiwoof1969 Dropping he bat does not count as a warning in my eyes but or some it would count as a warning. I would have given a warning on the helmet. That includes a fine as well. A second hard throw warrants an ejection.
@@PapaVanTwee5 "drop" is *WAY* different to "slam". I see "slam" here - I'm fine with no warning here. Part of being an adult is the responsibility to act like one - hit the showers kid!
Looks like said something after the helmet toss
Couldn't there have been a personal/profane issue that the cameras just couldn't see in combination with the helmet flip? I agree that the helmet slam alone is just an equipment violation but I've had that come with personal/profane a lot and players are getting better at doing it such that the cameras don't see it to win the perception/optics game.
You imagine if were two outs and not one out with the IBB occurred...
I would submit the standards are different today than they were when I worked. There’s two equipment violations (bat and helmet) plus the arm gestures can be construed as showing up the umpire.
He goes. Pure and simple for me
UMP!! Got his feel bads hurt!!!
No warning for this. It’s clear he threw his bad because he’s upset about the call. Not personal frustration. Great ejection.
Is there a different rule for hit by pitch?
The scenario where a player is injured or incapacitated and is unable to complete his baserunning duties is explicitly covered under rule 5.12(b)(3)(A).
@@teebob21 Awesome, I assumed so but you know what they sat about assumptions.
thanks :)
Wisdom seems to lack ... hmmm, what's the word?🤔
So the ejection shouldn’t have happened then in the first place. It should’ve been a fine on Patrick Wisdom for an equipment violation.
OMG the announcers actually knew the rules....
I saw a longer clip. They thought the previous batter who hit the double was out for missing first. That couldn't have happened because there was a play after it (the intentional walk). They had no clue what was happening in real time.
There *MUST* be some caveats to that rule. If a player is hit in the head and rushed to the hospital, they are ruled out if they never touch first base before a pinch runner takes first base???
@2:41 The rule says, "because of a base on balls".
The scenario where a player is injured or incapacitated and is unable to complete his baserunning duties is explicitly covered under rule 5.12(b)(3)(A).
Was this the first "beef" of 2024?
first time I see an umpire wearing protective gear on the underarm.
Probably got hit there by some toddler ballplayer throwing his helmet.
Nuked in seconds!?!
I'm all for the guy being thrown out of the game for flipping his bat flinging his arms and slamming his helmet down on the ground. Go kick a water cooler in the dugout if you want to. But don't slam your helmet down in front of the umpire
Why the appeal to first? Shouldn't the BR been called out for abandonment?
No, I don't think so. I believe that's a valid substitution
It's no different than a runner leaving third early on a sacrifice fly or missing second while running toward third. None of these constitute an automatic out, only an out on appeal.
You will be ejected 100% of the time for what he did.
I have seen players ejected for less.
“Jon Jay should have helped him out.”.
Oh I’m sorry, I thought literally everyone who played ball past tee ball knew you have to touch first base. That’s on the runner 100%
Look, these players aren't in the Bigs because they know the rules....
In general terms, it is definitely on the runner.....but, how does the 1B coach not remind him when he sees him turning??? Sadly, it seems neither knew the rule???
James Jean is full of 💩💩💩💩 for ejecting Patrick Wisdom totally ridiculous how bad most of these umpires are
The guy is paid millions and can’t be bothered to walk the last 10 feet to touch the base?
Go figure, you need to touch the bases in baseball.
Not in my game you toss the bat and the helmet right on home plate your taking the walk. Nope kids in the stands kids watching on tv. Had he turned and walked and did the same toss yes a warning fine. The contempt is doing it on home plate right in front of the umpire. I have no patience for childish acts. That batter knew he was on tv and he tried to make a statement and he paid.
hissy fit helmet smash near the umpire is automatic toss. Equipment can take a bad hop and possibly injure bystanders.
I think of this rule every time I see the batter strike out in the movie "Major League".
I defer to others on the actual meaning of the rule in MLB. Even if MLB doesn't see it this way, though, in my opinion throwing a piece of equipment larger than a batting glove should be an automatic ejection. Wait until you get to the dugout to throw a tantrum.
Brett Lawrie comes to mind
If it hits them, then eject, but it didn’t so this was unwarranted.
That's all on the batter...I mean you learn that in tee ball....
Did you not see his lips? C'mon Lindsay
It was a great pitch...so...
I Imagine Jomboy will cover this in their weekly dumb segment
That ejection was as soft as 10ply
Destroying a helmet like that should be an automatic ejection and fine. Grow up players.
In HS, ok, budgets are tight. In the big leagues, the ump looks like a whiny child.
@@mikecumbo7531 you do realize that MLB has it written in their rules about throwing equipment right? So you may choose to not eject while others would. My guess is this is a young umpire who felt he was shown up and allowed the first equipment toss(the bat) and then ejected for the helmet. Probably will learn from it but certainly not unreasonable or egregious toss IMO
@@mptr1783it’s called equipment violation. Not equipment ejection.
why do they pay for a 1st base coach? it's so funny these players and coaches on what situations they get themselves into.
I have the same question. Sure, first base coaches are really good at pointing to the bag when a batter/runner overruns the base, which is a big fat nothing. But when something actually of substance happens at first...I dunno...seems like they miss more than they help.
Antonelli Baseball uploaded a video about first base coaches, I think yesterday.
It's a matter of making things a little too formal. IBB is a dead ball. Substitution is a dead ball. If you had reversed the acts there'd be no issue. If MLB is looking to speed up the game and remove that dead space where nothing happens, then removing the requirement for walked batter who is about to be subbed to jog down and touch first before that can happen kind of fits.
@johnf1772 No it is not that is how runners sometimes take second on a base on balls. When a walk occurs, the ball is still live: any runner not forced to advance may nevertheless attempt to advance at his own risk, which might occur on a steal play, passed ball, or wild pitch.
@@63076topher In MLB an intentional base on balls is a dead ball. There are a lot of other things that happen in the MLB game that don't happen at other levels, like high school. Mainly that they don't expect major leaguers to be doing a lot of bush league plays and when action is obviously relaxed the umps are killing the play, substituting baseballs, etc, etc.
We don't know the batter wasn't riding the umpire for several pitches before about stuff he thought the umpire was "missing". I've had soccer coaches and players make snide comments 5-10 minutes (or even 70-80 minutes ... and even an entire game or two) after something happened they disagreed with. At some point they just have to go, even if it "looks" mild.
Also you can see the batter's lips moving right between the helmet toss and the ejection... of course it's possible he was only frustrated with himself, but it's also possible he said something to the ump.
Though the appeal was correct.. it was poor officating too. I was always taught that you DON'T grant time until the runners complete their baserunning. In this, the umpire failed too. As far as the EJ... At my levels the helmet spike alone is enough (could damage the equipment... MLB don't worry about.. but HS and below they do)
Who called time? Don't see it in any of these clips.
And you don't know that the 1st batter wasn't jawing at the umpire earlier and the bat flip, arms up and out, and helmet slam weren't the final straw...
But yeah, let's jump all over the umpire for enforcing the rules that players break...
@@bhamsoxfan72 You don't change runners without someone calling time. (that's in the rules).. I had a partner, You don't leave the dugout until time is call (you can request.. )... and he tossed a few coaches for breaching that. And the associations backed him up.
@@bhamsoxfan72 Intentional walk is dead ball. Legal sub took place during dead ball and continued to touch 1B. Cite of forcing runners does not apply as there was no R1. Without clarification from MLB this could or could not be a rule kick. Do they want a concussed HBP to be dragged to 1B?
@@jamesmurray3948 a HR is a dead ball also. Arent runners required to touch every base? And once they enter the dugout, guess what, they cant retouch a missed base. Same thing happened here. Youre preaching all over this comment board that the umpires got it wrong so explain it to me
@@mptr1783 MLB would need to explain why the sub, who touched and was on 1B and not the batter was called out. MLB would need to explain that an injured batter that was awarded 1B needs to be carted there before he can be subbed for if you buy the umpires call here. There was no missed base or untouched base.
I think the ejection is a culmination of the circumstances. You have the histrionic gesture throwing his hands up with the bat drop (showing clearly that he's questioning the call) combined with the near immediate helmet spike.
So you don’t have to throw the 4 pitches to save time but you can’t sub early to save time.
What a stupid fucking rule mlb.
(Yes, I think this would be fine if they let them throw the intentional walk like I think they should have to do)
Hate to see this kind of stuff. You get to play baseball for a living. May be the only time he gets to first today. At least stand of the bag.
I say if pitchers don't have to throw intentional balls then runners shouldn't have to touch any bags 🤣
The name of the sport is BASEball. Touch the damn bases. It's the foundation of the game.
That is some bad logic right there.
A by the book ejection, but the right call. You don't slam your helmet within a few feet of the umpire.
yes thats why we saw a helmet hit a ump in a video on a bouce
So when is an arm gesture, tossing of the bat and slamming your batting helmet on the plate not ejection worthy???
2024
Exactly. I love her videos, but sometimes she confuses me lol.
It hasn’t been ejection worthy until recently.
Even if the call is correct, I think it's silly. If you are 'Awarded' the base, that sounds like you should have it.
Is the call correct? Yes. Is it stupid? yes.
That's a fine position to hold (and I somewhat agree), but an "award" is any time that anything in the rules allows a runner to advance. So, a hime run is an award. For homeruns and something like this, I wouldn't mind it be automatic. But for other awards (any award where the ball stays live), they certainly need to.
Shows you just how ignorant players are. "I didn't say a word!"
So? Learn the rules.
Well, technically he didn't.
Three distinct gestures of disgust with the call performed directly in front of the ump -- the helmet and bat both hit home plate -- each of which says, eff you. sayonara...
Stupid ejection. Hate when umps over react. It’s not ok to be frustrated with yourself?
Good pitch calls, EXTREMELY soft ejection.
Throwing equipment is unsportsmanlike. I felt he was given leeway with the bat toss and histrionic gesture.
Kind of a bs call. Now with the IBB rule, i can see a player forgetting this rule easily.
It's still the rule. I feel bad for the player that forgot, but the rulebook doesn't care.
All batter-runners who fail to touch 1B are out on appeal, except in the case of injury or incapacitation. We don't need more exceptions for primadonnas who can't manage to jog 90 feet to get on base.
@@teebob21 it wasn’t that tho, he like froze and I truly think he thought he was good. It wasn’t like he walked off with his chest out showing out trying to big time the umps or something. Like even on day 1 of spring training if coaches were like listen, about the new rule… we’re in august that was March lol. Looked like a simple mistake. I agree with the rule. But that really sucks for the player
@@amonrodriguez3518 "OK, boys! Welcome to your first year playing baseball! Remember, when you get a hit or get walked, ...what? Yes, Jazz, you can go pee. No, Billy, you can't hit Sam. I don't care if he called you a doody head. Anyway, after you bat, you have to run to first. If you don't and the other team gets the ball there first, you're going to be out. Everyone got that? Alright!! Let's go learn how to throw and catch!"
@@teebob21 yes it’s something we learn in little league. Good try but epic fail. When there’s a new rule about international IBB. That’s might make ya forget some stuff especially when it happens like that. Dumb
Tootblan
The cites do not support calling the sub out at 1B.
The citation at 2:57 does.
@@CybeastID There were no other runners forced to advance. But a sub runner was put into the game and touched 1B. Why would he be called out? I doubt MLB will clarify this.
Bad ejection. If that offends you then don’t be an umpire. Had he thrown helmet at the umpire then that would be different.
lol…the rules (as Lindsay cited in the video) require an ejection in that circumstance. People always think it’s about the umpires making it about them and it seldom is and it is not here. Again, don’t take my word for it, go back and watch it again and read the rules that Lindsay cites.
Rookie umpires make mistakes too, only the ejection
Second
first
So much for speeding the game along...lol
zero reason for not touching a base