T&E #2, Miraphone 497 Hagen BBb Tuba
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- čas přidán 22. 01. 2018
- An in-depth look at the Miraphone 497 Hagen Model BBb tuba. My thoughts as well as numerous playing examples of this tuba in action.
*Special Thanks to Buddy Rogers Music for helping with logistics and transport!!!* - Hudba
I just got the opportunity to play this model of tuba (Miraphone Hagan 497). I was impressed. Like you, I recognized that it is certainly more tuba than I am used to. But, when you crank it up, it loves it.
Not that I can play it anywhere near as well as you.
I've watched this video so many times, that I thought I should comment.
You sound fantastic on every instrument you play, and I love all your videos to be sure, but this tuba definitely has a sound like no other. I recently tested the 496 5/4, and I think it is the best BBb I have ever played. Certainly the best Miraphone I have ever played. I can only imagine how this one plays in comparison. Thanks for the thorough review and the opportunity for fellow tuba players and tuba junkies to experience it vicariously.
I appreciate your willingness to review instruments, and I'm looking forward to all your future videos.
Thanks again!
That instrument, in a bright silver plate, would be the most beautiful brass instrument I've ever seen. It's already just about there in gold, but silver would be something legendary.
This is the last instrument I would ever consider learning, with the exception of percussion, but I can't stop watching low brass videos. They're the Dr. Seussiest of all, and occasionally produce a gorgeous sound. I'm officially addicted to low-brass choirs.
I like the sound of low more I feel like high brass instruments because high brass can sometimes sound screechy but I like all except woodwind.
Although I've played clarinet and double [string] bass as my 'main' instruments in school, I've always had a fondness for brass but my father talked me out of it because he said he got a 'sore lip' when he played trumpet in high school. However, last year I bought a used Conn Director trombone off eBay and have had a lot of fun learning to play it, and then I bought a used Blessing B-125 trumpet, and aside from becoming 'addicted' to valves, I've experienced no sore lip. Recently I had been thinking of trying a valved lower brass instrument and have been considering either baritone or euphonium, and ended up ordering the latter (an inexpensive SAI from eBay) which should arrive within a week. I figure a conical bore instrument will be more like a tuba than a baritone would be. If I like playing it, I might get a tuba at some point (and I'm thinking BB-flat because I like the contrabass sound and it would be in the same key as my other instruments). I'm an older guy (almost 70), and I'm getting and learning these instruments strictly for fun, not expecting to make a career of it. I'm skinny and not sure whether I have the heft and 'wind power' for tuba, so I'll be interested in seeing how I do with the euphonium. However, after watching various videos of various bands, including the Kyoto Tachibana band, I figure if those ~100 lb girls can play their sousaphones, I could probably do likewise with a similar bass instrument. I love hearing this Miraphone instrument (and was impressed that it could play down to F below the piano keyboard!), but I'm sure it's pricey and its quality would probably be 'wasted' on me so I'll probably end up with a used beginner instrument for $1000.
@@bobjacobson858 Good choice picking Euphonium over baritone. The euphonium is a gorgeous virtuoso instrument that would absolutely have a regular place in the orchestra had it only been invented sooner. In contrast, the baritone has a brighter, less interesting timbre and universally boring parts.
By the way, you know you can also rent instruments, right? I’m not one to talk though. I recently started horn lessons, and was encouraged to purchase a used horn because it’s very difficult to find decent horns for rent. Plus brass instruments tend to hold their value. Anyway, good luck! We are kindred spirits. After playing oboe for many years, I started both violin and horn entirely “for fun”. Teachers have accused me of deliberately going for the “harder” instruments, but I just go by sound. I really have no desire to try anything else… maybe euph one day, lol!
@@cmw12 Thanks! I also figure the euphonium can do everything the baritone can, plus more. Already having a (slide) trombone, I also figured the baritone, because of its cylindrical tubing, would be somewhat like a coiled-up valve trombone while the sound of the euphonium would be different.
When I entered 7th grade, clarinet was the only instrument I had played. I had an opportunity to take up bass clarinet, so I did, using the school's instrument. My father didn't approve, saying I was going to be a "Jack of all trades, master of none". I didn't particularly let this bother me, and a couple years later I took up string bass, which he seemed to accept even if rather grudgingly at first. As I've gotten older, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not quite as interested in being a 'virtuoso' (although I played my 'old' instruments well) as in having fun learning a variety of instruments, taking each of them to whatever level I want. I'm fascinated by the instruments themselves as much as the music they make.
I've been taking trombone lessons for most of year now, and my teacher is very open-minded. As I was finishing my lesson last week, he got ready for a 5th grader who was learning to play a euphonium, and I got into a conversation with his mother who mentioned they had rented the instrument for $68/month plus some additional charge, but this money could be applied to a purchase. I figure I'm doing better, as the instrument is relatively inexpensive, and could be sold if I ever decided I didn't want it.
I would say the fact that you have gone for 'harder' instruments (although not specifically for this reason) still suggests that you aren't afraid of a challenge! I hope you enjoy both your violin and horn!
@@cmw12 My euphonium arrived a few days ago, and I'm basically happy with it and having a lot of fun playing it. It's not perfect, but there are a few things that can be changed. One of the funniest is that I was trying to empty the spit valve but nothing came out even though the instruments was making that 'popping' sound. By pulling off the slide I was able to empty it, and then I figured I would check to see if the hole was plugged--and then discovered the person who was supposed to make the hole was apparently absent that day! (I'm going to take it to a hardware store to see if one can be drilled.) That slide also 'pinches' a bit too much, so it has to be spread about 1mm to get it back into the instrument, a minor nuisance that perhaps can be improved. The second valve seems to play a bit flat--maybe a good metal worker could shorten the tubing a bit, but that's for later. I tend to play the euphonium as a bass instrument, especially as I like the rich, robust timbre, especially in the lower range, so I can appreciate even the 'oompah' kinds of musical parts. (When I want to play higher parts, I just pick up my trumpet or clarinet.) I find I get a better sound on the euphonium by using my trombone mouthpiece.
i hope you continue to enjoy your instruments, too!
A gorgeous horn: both in appearance, and warmth of tone.
Always a pleasure to hear you play. I always had fun playing along side of you in our high school days and while at UCF! Great review.
hello I am Brazilian my dream is to play my tuba just like you.
I like your sound on this Kaiser in Bb much more than any of the York CC tubas!! It is magnificent!
Amazing!!! Yes, the tuba but more so your playing! Really enjoy your videos and an avid follower.
Cheers from Singapore!
Jeremiah
Please, never ever apologize for Ring excerpts.
Great video! Can't wait to see more of your Bb tuba quest as I was on same kind of quest myself until year ago. Hagen 497 was about the only one I didn't try as it was on tour when I was at Miraphone factory. Will be interesting to see how you like the Melton 197 (if you're getting one there) as it propably is quite a bit different instrument. Bestestest would be to get comparsion of both B&F copies around (Nirschl and 197) but at this time it might be impossible (edit: extremely difficult and expensive) to even test both separatedly.
Beautiful sound!
No matter how much I play my CC, and I hear people play CC tubas. I think the Bb tubas just have better sound. I know here in America, some professionals are slowly switching over to Bb for some pieces. But I can't wait for them to become the main tubas in American orchestras.
@Gregs Designs Honest question, does the audition panel *really* care what kind of horn you use as long as you get a good sound? I feel like only tubists really care about CC vs. Bb, but I'm not a pro so I can't really say for sure
I am not a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but have played some top-level tubas. I get to play a Meinl Weston 195/2 any day I walk into work and have played a 6/4 Rudy. Both are impressive instruments of substantial power. I also had the good fortunate to play a Gronitz PCK once (right after the Rudy no less). From my experience, a CC tuba is more agile. There was nothing I could throw at it where I felt the tuba was falling behind. I am not the fastest player in the world, but I can out play (from a speed perspective) any Bb I have ever played, particularly on runs. The PCK had no such issues. I have also played a 3/4 CC that is a beginner horn that is more agile than the 195 (but it sounds like a beginner instrument).
So, my perspective is that overall a CC is usually going to be a better bet if for no other reason than they tend to be more agile (and I am a BBb player). I'm hoping to get my hands on a new CC that I know will be in existence at some point and a Hagen so I can compare them from my non-professional point of view.
@The Atavist Yes they do care about it. You won’t win an American audition on a Bb. Same if you go to Germany. You won’t win on a C.
I can honestly say that having both a CC and BBb tuba is well worth it. Win the job playing CC then having that variety of tonal colors at your fingertips is well worth it. In my experience I have gotten more compliments on my vintage Miraphone 185 BBb tuba compared to my Yamaha 822 CC tuba. Someone like Chris Olka could show up with either a CC or BBb tuba and win a job. It’s all about mindset and perseverance in your practice that gets you the job.
Miraphone makes some damn good rotary tubas. I would like a CC piston ideally but I own a Miraphone 186 BBb and it never ceases to amaze me. It sounds amazing, is incredibly in tune and overall is super versatile. and the most well rounded tuba i've ever played in my year and a half of playing tuba.
Fausto I’d agree on all counts!
I played a Miraphone in School years ago and it was a wonderful instrument. My little sister ended up playing it during her band years.
Thats how I’ve always wanted my tone to sound 😯
Nice! I find myself confused by so many awesome tuba players playing up in the baritone register. Awesome to hear some good deep tuba notes! Beautiful horn and playing!
Those scales at the end! :o Damn!
do you practice lip slurs a lot?
Indeed was beatiful the way you have played that Miraphone however I was personally touch by the Hymn at the 18:50 min,I really was! i did not expect it. My tuba was stolen and I am having a hard time however after the surprise Hymn my spiriit was lift up! God Bless you! Dios Te Bendiga AMEN.
God did a miracle and I forget to post it. My tuba has been found and recovered!!! Glory to GOD
DAMN THE BEST BBb TUBA !!!!
Thank you my brother
Thank you!
Thanks dude.
I would love to see a T&E on the Miraphone model 88 CC tuba.
Awesome!!!
Would love to hear your thoughts on the Melton (MW) 195 and 197 as alternatives to this horn.
Pro-tip video suggestion... utilizing the shift for Extreme low register, how to get into and out of it, When and where to use it. It is something I have been trying to figure out.
Douglas Briley Mr. Olka does have a video for that in his Drill of the Week series. It's number 16 and it's called "Jose's Slip 'n Slide."
Thank you for the review! Are you going to try the HB2 mouthpiece?
Miraphone makes GREAT tubas. Ol' Fafner would be proud to be played on that horn/
Thanks!
Hi Chris,
I'm so glad you tried out the miraphone 497. I played it a couple months ago and was astonished how good it was.
Have you tried the Melton 197/2 "Original" yet? I really think you should give that one a go as well.
I myself play the melton 195 and the melton 4250. So i think you could call me a melton fan but those instruments just work best for me!
Really thankful for your videos. Brought me to the point where i am now in my play. Actually won the audition to study in Hanover! You have had a huge impact on me with your videos. Just wanted to let you know.
thanks again
Elias Rodehorst , thanks for the kind words about the videos and congratulations about Hanover! I would love to try a MW197 but can’t seem to find even one of them in the whole United States! Wish I could!
Oh how I wish Miraphone had a CC version of that horn. Really nice playing, Chris!
It wouldn't do the same thing. Lot's of guys are finding that there's something about a Bb that just locks better under the trombones.
I don't buy that at all! Trombones are only in Bb in first position, and Horns are still in F/Bb, while Trumpets can be C/Bb! Top level pros like Mr. Olka, or Gene Pokorny are in a position, and play at a level high enough, to go with Two 6/4 Tubas, in CC, and BBb, but us earthly players are better served with one key, or the other, due in large part to our not making that kind of coin! Personally, I find the whole CC vs BBb debate snobbish at best! A good player gets the best sound from his ax, no matter the key! I've been using a 24-J, with a 19" upright bell for all my wind ensemble work, despite it's (short stroke valve induced) foibles, for years, because there's no other ax i could afford that sounds like that horn! I had access to a nice 6/4 CC, but the sound was not as full and supporting as the old Conn! I don't buy into the F, vs Eb as my Bass Tuba argument either! I'm not Bandstroetter, or Baadsvik, but I'd take either of them no matter their choice of key! LOL!
@@ClearStreamsUK yes, the Bb tuba harmonizes much better with the trombones (due having a similar harmonic series) , no doubt about it. After 30 years on the CC tuba, I have gone to Bb rotary tubas due to sound quality and this "harmonization". Listen closely to Olka playing this tuba and then listen to him uon the big CC. To me, this tuba has the nicer timbre
Most good players sound like a parish church organ, while your sound is more like a 64" foot cathedral organ! I'm humbled by the way you are mastering 6/4 orchestral tuba's. Being a BBb player myself we are stuck to the upright piston valve compensating tuba's in our British style brassbands. A matter of tradition. So I never had the opportunity to play on a Hagen. How does it compare to a Besson 994 BBb compensating tuba? The very complex compensating valve block gives a lot more resistance in comparison with the more open in-line design of the rotary valves on the Hagen, me think. You make the lower octave sound so clear and focussed. It sounds like you have re-invented the BBb tuba!
12:57
Parabéns dos seus vídeos no CZcams é top
17:11 What a sound. Wow
I played tuba in college almost 30 years ago at ASU while Sam was just starting there. Now my son is playing the tuba and this is the video where I say, "play like that, that's how it's supposed to sound."
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
Hi Chris, have you ever tried the Meinl Weston Fafner? If so, how does it compare to the Haagen?
Where You bought those sticks to keep your tuba on legs? Im using sticks for cars desks but it is problematic to have this all the time with me while some tours and I losed few ^^
Hey man, it's a good thing you have a job.
Hi! You should try yo make a review of the Wessex Tubas It would be great!
Chris, you still have the most complete review of this horn I have found, and it really makes me want to get my hands on one.
I wonder if you ever wound up getting one.
Also, you may have specified somewhere, but can you share what product you favor for the rubber pad you apply to the lower bow so that the horn sticks to your leg?
I waaaaaannnntttt it!!
As a professional tubist who has been testing BBb tubas; did you have the chance to try out Yamaha's YBB-632 Neo, Besson 994, or any other top action compensating 3+1 design tubas commonly used in British brass bands?
I'm curious to hear opinions of tubists in the orchestral world on the 3+1 compensating BBb tubas compared to the designs I see more commonly in orchestras with BBb tubas such as what you are playing here. Thank you!
Where do you get those sticky pads to keep the tuba on your leg?
Do you have any advice for lip slurs? Lip slurs are something I have been struggling with In my playing recently and I haven’t found a way to fix them. I don’t know if I doing something fundamentally incorrect, but I cant do lip slur exercises at the speed and cleanliness that Id like.
Rather than thinking about the "technical" stuff (lips, tuba position, dynamics,speed, tounging), I would focus on air. Many problems go away when focusing on your air. Buzzing also helps.
My 2¢
OMG! What a sound! The thing sounds GERMAN! Obviously, you're one of the top players in the Tuba Universe, but, OMG! It appears you're not exerting any extra effort to play the bottom range! And the Pianissimo sound! Nothing's more efficient than a big, 6/4 horn in capable hands, IMHO! When will Miraphone wake up, and make a 5th. valve, non-dependent whole step slide? I would happily do battle with my wife to have that horn with a whole step, independent 5th.! Wagner, Tchaikovsky, OMG! About my 5th. cucuit preference. I am a fairly lazy player!LOL! I had a Cerveney 686 years ago that I just loved! And the 5th. (European left) rotor could be "set" for Bb, and A, eliminating half the slide pulling others were doing! I had always wondered why guys (and gals) with modern 5th. valve(non-2/3) were still pulling slides more than I was. Then, I had a chance to play a 186 CC. I knew why those players were just as busy as any 4 rotor players. The 5th. valve circuit is half useless! It's too damn long to use for Bb/A, or Ab/G ! I have the chance to pick up an older 186 5 rotor CC, with the 2/3 circuit, so I'm probably going to have the stock 5th replaced with a shortened, modern circuit! Thanks again for sharing your talent!
This complete stranger to brass instruments can say without a doubt that this is the best sounding instrument you've tried in the T&E series. I'd love to hear the complete Bach cello suites on the Miraphone (or any model tuba you'd care to use, but the Miraphone would be my preference). Any chance you'll release an album???
Is the mouthpiece receiver a Standard Morse taper ?
Did you hear about the carpenters who formed a tuba playing quartet? They called themselves the "tuba four"...
how do you get your slides to move so smoothly? I've heard about sanding them but I don't want to try anything on my horn till I get a second opinion.
AeroSpacePick3 , I do all of my own repair and custom work. However, the proper way to do it after it’s left the factory is to “lap” the slides to each other using abrasive lapping compound or align the slides by moving braces or both.
Messiaen's "Et Expecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum" calls for both a C tuba and a "Bb contrabass Saxhorn." Looks like you found the ideal tuba for the latter.
Can you review the Mack brass CC tuba
How does this compare to the 496 or Siegfried?
Hi Chris, have you thought about testing some melton bb tuba? (such as Fafner or Fasolt)
Victor, I would love to but need for someone to arrange to get one of these instruments to me for testing.
Thank you for replying me, I'm sorry for you for not being able to get those. I asked you since I'm interested in those models.
Greetings from Spain.
Would love for you to use one of these as your Bb choice regularly in Cincy. Really has that sound that projects! They’ll make you a fifth valve option, just ask…
I’ve been told they will now offer this option. However…my Eastman 825…my new favorite Bb!
Can you do a video on the different mouthpieces (shapes etc) that should be used on certain tubas? i.e. German horns or rotary vs piston
Can you do the Jupiter JTU1110
Is it correct to move your right shoulder so much when breathing?
What is the brand and number of the nozzle?
Thank you for this nice Video. Do you think this instrument could fit for a more amateur tubist, or would it be too hard to use it at full potential ?
If you are going to use it in ensemble playing, then I think any level player can use and enjoy this wonderful tuba. If it will be your only tuba and you want to use it for solo and chamber music, then maybe consider the smaller version 495 or 496. I hope that helps answer your question.
Hi, and thank you for answer. Yes your comment helps, I always play in ensemble, then it would be interresting now that I test this instrument. I will contact local dealers.
Thank you. You may need to use good recorder.
Mr. Olka, this has been one of the best horns you’ve reviewed, along with the EBC836S! You sound amazing, and random question, but have you stayed in touch with Dan Bryce? Just curious because he’s my professor and he was one of your students at some point, and I would be interested to know!
I have talked to Dan in a long time. I’ve been busy and not doing a good job of keeping up with my friends around the world…tell him hello for me!
@@cheers623 If I see him for lessons again, I sure will!
How often to you use the extremes in our range in performance literature? They are greatachievements for a player but I was wondering how useful they really are. So are you considering doing a short/longterm review of the three Wessex 6/4 tubas (One BBb and two CC) Since they are pretty new on the marked, there would be an interest. I hope Cincinnati is working well for you. Loved having you in Seattle (my home town) but sometimes careers must change,
Westside Flyer , I use the extremes in playing every day. As do my students. It’s not that you’ll necessarily “need” them everyday in the band or orchestra. But the few times that you do...you REALLY need them. Most professional players that run afoul of playing problems or get fired from their gigs are those that have lost touch with those extremes and get caught with “their pants down” so to speak. Obviously not everyone that plays for their own enjoyment need this. I’m speaking specifically to the aspiring professional or young student that may pursue it as a career. Hope that helps!
Westside Flyer , also yes, I’ll be doing an in-depth review of the Wessex 6/4 tubas in the next few weeks. Stay tuned!
Thank you. And I apologize for the poor typing. I must proofread even CZcams posts! And thanks for the hint about the range.
Wonder how this compares to the Adams Bb.
White as snow. :)
Hai Chris what is the difference on a Bb tuba and a BBb is it the bore size or is the BBb an octave lower than the Bb tuba
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I'd love to hear you play "Tuba Smarties" by the bassist from the rock band Sky on this horn.
Gimme time!
Ola Cris , poderia me dizer se a diferença entre a Miraphone Hagen 497 é muito grande quando comparada a Hagen 496 ?
In Germany they use melton a lot. I have a old Melton 200 6/4 and I love it. You should try melton.
What case do you have for this particular tuba?
An old Altieri
I guess need to sell a kidney so I can get one of these. Heck freaking yeah.
@19:25 Jesus paid it all. Amen ❤️
So i played this Tuba and instant loved it. I actually might buy it. The only problem i have is the fact, that in the low register there is a loud metal ringing in the Tuba, maybe the bell? Did you hear it as well? And did it affect ur playing? Thx a a lot.
Sugarflash , I think I might have heard it? I think it’s a dry tuning slide inner tube that just needs grease. These horns that travel around to shows usually don’t get as much maintenance as they need. Poor tubas! Seriously, that might explain it. It only happened on a certain note and at loud dynamics. Also, I’ve had this same phenomenon on my tubas after getting chem cleaned.
Maybe one last question. You said it might not be good for some genres. What would that be for example? :)
@@timoheiss Elevator music.
500 aee 😱
How does the Haugen compare to the 6/4 Siegfried? I only have Roger Lewis's recommendation of the Siegfried as the best choice.
Bob Mecum , my preference is the Hagen. It feels more responsive and easier to play, with more color in the sound. Both are great tubas, but I’d go Hagen if choosing.
Tell us about those pads.
Tim Croteau they are cell phone dashboard holders. Basically sticky rubber pads used to keep a cell phone from sliding around. Works great on tubas to keep them from sliding off you leg.
How much does it cost?
12:57
18:00
Olá sou Luciano Jesus, músico e toco na ccb.
Meu sonho de consumo é uma tuba dessa, Te convido a ir assistir um culto na sua cidade,um abraço
16:22
Who is Jake? Mr. Treece wants me to meet him but I'm not sure who he is, just got off the phone with Mr. Treece and you just said his name!
Christopher Bernhardt, I was referring to the late Arnold Jacobs of the Chicago Symphony. He passed away many years ago. You should do some homework and find out for yourself the significance of his teaching and playing. You’ll be glad you did.
I've read some of his books and know a lot of stuff about him. I just thought it was odd that Mr. Treece said he wanted me to meet Jake and then you referred to him as Jake, thought you were talking about someone else.
I was busking on Michigan Avenue in chicago in 1984, a few doors down from the American conservatory. Playing a cute little rotary baritone tuba. Jake walked by one evening and we had a brief, convivial conversation. He peeled out a $20 bill and put it in my case, and wished me a merry Christmas. Totally true story!
I want this tuba too, but it’s so expensive (17,000-20,000€)
They’re great tubas…but yes…expensive!
What is that in u.s. dollars?
A tuba produces a fart sound! 😂😂😂😂
Hey all! Here's the sickest Tuba playing you ever heard, FEEL THE LOW NOTES. Oh btw here comes some Jesus time! Jesus Paid it All, truer lyrics never were written.
That instrument, in a bright silver plate, would be the most beautiful brass instrument I've ever seen. It's already just about there in gold, but silver would be something legendary.
12:57
That instrument, in a bright silver plate, would be the most beautiful brass instrument I've ever seen. It's already just about there in gold, but silver would be something legendary.