What is your favorite LGBTQ moment you've had at a Disney theme park? Mine is my super gay honeymoon from last year - I felt like a non-binary princess🏳️🌈 (CZcams is still censoring the q-word from the comments, so please know I am not deleting your comments!)
Aw, cute! It's been years since I've been to a park, I wish I could have a moment like that in the future ^_^ (I've never seen the q-word used as a slur on the internet, why is youtube even censoring it lol)
@@luciel7751 It has been used as a very nasty slur for a very long time. It has only been getting reclaimed by LGBTQ individuals in the modern context. There are many, many people who still find it highly offensive because in their personal experience it was only used as a weapon. For decades the Q in LGBTQ did not represent Questioning and was used by individuals who felt like it fit them while also using it as a defiant but quiet way to flip the middle finger at those who tried to use it in a hurtful way. Kinda still a complex and potentially triggering word for a lot of people.
@@LovelyJayBlueASMR Yes I know that, but on the internet it seems to me like it's never used in a nasty way, as I said, I've never seen it used that way here. And I assume that youtube censors words such as q to prevent people from using it in a hateful way towards us, but in practice it probably only stops people reclaiming it from using it, which is why it's confusing
I was only 11, and it was my first time. I’m trans, and being able to put on the Minnie ears instead of Mickey (this was the late 90’s) was a revelation. But my favorite moment was meeting Ariel. I geeked out so hard. I still haven’t found a partner. But when I do I’m getting married in live action Cinderella’s dress. And that will be my favorite Disney q**** moment. Thank you for your videos. They’re so thoughtful, and honestly this one brought me to tears. Thank you so much.
I never went to a disney theme park. the closest one is Disneyland Paris, and thats a little problem, because when I visit a country, I want to speak basic tourist questions in their language. And french is a bitch.
If people are worried about Disney rewriting history, Pocahontas would be locked away with Song of the South. I now need some art or comic of Saul showing new sweet concepts to Gary in a cute domestic setting.
@@zenith_zenith I would even be willing to throw a few dollars at you for it if you have something like patreon or koffi and the like (tip jar for a creator instead of sale of things, so you won't risk getting into copyright trouble), and I doubt I would be the only one.
Fucking preach. I cannot go deeper into words on how disgusting that film is from a native perspective. I love the soundtrack,I love the art, but the viewing experience is so bitter sweet knowing that this movie is far from truthful. Pocahontas is probably to closest to "mainstream representation" for native girls I can find,yet it is riddled with historical inaccuracies,and the romanticism of a disgusting story. Anyways I'll get off my soap box
I still just cannot wrap my mind around homophobia. Seeing two guys kiss isn't going to turn you gay, and if it is, then you weren't straight to begin with.
Fun fact: bad fan fiction is why there’s Christian hatred to homosexuals. Before the popular integration of Dante’s Inferno there’s actually evidence that most Christian sects saw homosexuality with indifference. Beyond that, I’d argue it comes down to either experiences or lack of familiarity with the subject.
Colonizers apparently thought that there were 1 too many of them & ultimately decided to be against them, even though there were many straight couples making babies like crazy.
@{𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝒮𝒾𝓁𝓋𝑒𝓇 𝑀𝑜𝑜𝓃} They're referring to Dante's Inferno being bad fan fiction :P Since it was a fictional novel not meant to be seen as real, but Christians looking for a boogey man and a way to describe what will happen if you don't follow their religion latched onto it and now a lot of Christians describe Hell as the fictional world of Dante's Inferno. Basically they read some bad fan fiction and tried to make it real to scare people into being religious. Also there's a gay man in the Bible. Makes no sense why it's supposedly wrong. Also if all sins are supposedly equal, then why is being gay put up there with the 7 deadly sins? It's not even in the commandments. It shows they are just using religion as a way to excuse bigotry. The Bible also says not to force religion on people and to be nice to people, and even sinners, treating them like people, and also to not preach in the streets. They also say the old testament doesn't count, but they still apply the being gay part to their religion for no reason.
@{𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝒮𝒾𝓁𝓋𝑒𝓇 𝑀𝑜𝑜𝓃} they’re talking about Dante’s Inferno; wasn’t official religious doctrine, but many Christian organizations adopted it as their view of hell.
I love how at the beginning in the recording that guy said that Disney is “pro-homosexual”, like, there is a cartoon on Disney channel that is getting cut short bc it doesn’t “fit the Disney brand” aka the main character is in a gay relationship and the Disney execs aren’t happy about it. Disney is not very pro-gay, actually.
@@PK-Radio Because of the gay content. If they had any integrity at all, they would stop appealing to China. Yes, they would loose out on money, but thats just the cost of having human decency.
Main Street has always been someone’s idealized version of history. And I don’t know about you all, but having a gay partner who bakes is certainly my ideal!
I dont get gay part, i can only see a trustin pathner, can you tell me how is it gay?. Sometimes i had a hard times understading how people read some characters as gay, the talk he give dont really make much sense to me because from where i am is comoon to call whatever any person to work whit, patner includer , there[s black which is say about lazy people and not black people and there is just calling them by they nation, patner is rather a comoon saying that i just cant see it that way, i want to know how does it work. I have never seen people in here who call themselves gay and i remenber when i gay was used as an insult in school years but nowdays i dont hear those being metion so i really have not understading of that.
@@erugurara8235 It does not explicitly say they are gay. It’s subtext. If you think about it a bit more you can see how it comes off that way. Saul bakes in his home after work, and shares his dessert with his partner. I dunno, is baking for your business partner something people do that often? I think it’s more likely that they are romantic partners, since this is the kind of wording often used for gay relationships. I think you would have fo deliberately ignore the gay interpretation in order to read this as just a business relationship.
@@acehealer4212 sorry i dont have wording as naturraly gay, i am happy you can get some semblance of aceptance like this but i belive is just very easy to confuse. Also from being in a relationship whit a pizaria i can tell you that they would make dinner to our part of the team on ocassion as a show of a good conection. i dont intend of negating the love but i can see that kind of love from the subxtest.
I always thought the argument of not having homosexual characters in shows/movies because it'll "taint" kids as a stupid argument. I've been exposed to heterosexual characters throughout my childhood/teenage years. That didn't make me straight.
@@meemog916 Go ahead, I've noticed using their logic against them makes them think about it, but in the end, it still doesn't change their minds because they're not open-minded to the fact that kids won't magically become gay if they see gay stuff in tv shows/movies.
Because being gay is not normal? It doesn't matter what you pretend really. Society is built on heterosexual couples who have children at its most basic core.
@@tarsicio2426 there are enough heterosexual couples having children for people to be gay and not have children. its not like their taking over the world or anything.
"You're rewriting history!" Yes. That's what Disney does. Solve a mystery and rewrite history. DuckTales! Woo-Hoo! (Sorry. As a lifelong Donald Duck and Carl Barks fan I had to make that joke. The new DuckTales 2017 show is my new favourite cartoon it's just... so good). On a more serious note, if it's suppose to be an idealised version of the past, why can't it include ethnical and LGBTQ+ minorities? Isn't a version of the past where everyone was welcomed and respected no matter their skin-colour, nation of origin or sexual/gender identity an ideal version of the past? It's my ideal version of the future at least.
As a person who is not an American: The USA is A L W A Y S sold to us as a land of opportunity open for everyone regardless of who they are. It’s very ironic if you think of how it actually is. And that’s coming from someone who doesn’t live there.
The "conservatives" have the ideal world more akin to Song Of The South than what you and I would consider ideal. "White" heteronormativity being king and everyone else being grateful 'servants' and 'workers'... It's pretty weird, and disturbing. They don't really view others' peaceful happiness as valid, but as threats to their dominancy.
You’re my new favorite person. Another LGBTQ (or ally not gonna assume) fan of DuckTales 2017!! I adore the show and love the little representation we get from Violet’s dads!!
As an autistic ace, the whole “partner” thing threw me off, as I didn’t interpret it in terms of sexual orientation. It only dawned on me a couple of minutes after watching the video that if they didn’t want to hint at it, the word “associate” would’ve been used.
As a bi person, I also automatically assumed it meant business partner, funnily enough. Going by Disney's other poor excuses for representation in their movies, it was most likely made vague on purpose to not completely alienate the homophobic side of their audience; they still want as much money as possible, even if it means trying to play both sides.
Yeah understandable. A partner can mean many things. Someone you work with, Someone you're in love with, and someone who you have an emotional bond with, since it means many things it's not always obvious but it's there. You're still awesome
The context clues about how Saul unwinds by baking and his partner enjoys eating the snacks definitely implies that they’re living together after work.
You can't love Disney if you're homophobic, Howard Ashman was a proud gay man who is the reason for Disney's success and what it is today, if it weren't for a gay man with a vision Disney would be Touchstone Pictures and both Disneyland and Disneyworld would have been bought by Universal.
Preach, my friend! Had Howard not made The Little Mermaid into the success it is, Disney would look much different today, and their animation department would all but cease to exist.
@@mattymariah Disney should put up a Howard Ashman statue in every Disney park because had Howard never existed Disneyland would have rotted away into obscurity like Pacific Island Park
how is it that i'm a massive fan of Tchaikovsky's works AND a lesbian, but i was today years old when i found out he was gay??? i gotta remind myself, all tragic 19th century romances are gay in subtext!!
If you're interested, I recommend Alexander Poznansky's work on Tchaikovsky. His research is very thorough and covers a wide variety of aspects of Tchaikovsky's life, including his sexuality and relationships.
That's more than just abit homophobic to assume all work written by a gay person (let alone an entire subgentre) has a 'gay subtext'. Its literally prejudice and segriationist.
Walt’s creation of a world based on his own orientation and opinions of “family values” has become more interesting to me as I learn and discover more about the LGBQ+ history within Disney. Unfortunately I doubt I would be shocked by the answer (nor should I care what a dead man thinks), but I wonder how Walt would feel about the progress that’s been made to include a part of society that he was likely blind or ignorant to. It’s difficult to find an accurate account of his personal persona and values in a way that doesn’t feel filtered and scrubbed to maintain the “Disney brand”. Great video as always, today I learned Tchaikovsky was gay
That’s what I want to hear about as well. Especially with the more inclusive image that Disney is cultivating (and I love them for it), it’d be interesting to have at least a glimpse into the mind of the people who started it all. Considering the kind of creatives that Walt surrounded himself with, I can’t imagine him being violently homophobic, but he would clearly have had a very different mindset from ours.
I was thinking about that too. I wish I could know what he’d think. I want to be optimistic and think he’d be accepting of lgbt+ people considering his ideals and things like how the Native Americans at old Frontierland weren’t just there for people to ogle at, but to share their different cultures, and Saludos Amigos/Three Caballeros being genuine and researched and how Walt seemed interested in learning how different kinds of people live their lives. I mean of course there’s always not great things like the stuff in Peter Pan or Dumbo but I’ve always felt those were misguided products of time (not that that makes it acceptable) rather than genuine prejudice. But if anyone has better insight or if I sound like a fool, please lmk
I personally think that the real issue here is that they feel so privileged that they don't keep their acidic vitriol to themselves. This inherently does not make them less of a fan as anyone else, it just makes them a privileged piece of stinking, rotten trash. Exclusionary splitting hairs is really a slippery slope. As a Trans person I certainly don't condone LGBTQ+ hating people running rampant, but at the same time I will still argue that they can be a fan even if we don't agree with them.
Sure, a gay man is unbelievable and not fit Main Street, but the mouse the size of human and magical British woman with the penguins fit right in. Go back to the mall parking lot carnivals, ya goobers. Also, to answer your questions, my first disney trip back when I was 9 happened to be during Pride and I pointed to a gay couple and said to my conservative mother “they’re holding hands like we are!”
u make a rlly good point and i dont wanna make fun of u but u describe the british lady like her being british is what makes her unbelievable but honestly, true 💀💀
@@Aster_Risk lol good point. Changing into a kitty = very cute, highly marketable; changing into a version of yourself with pink hair = very quirky, highly marketable; changing into a version of yourself with masculine/feminine features = ew gross, also that's oppressing women
Wait until somebody notices that Saul Fitz and his partner live in Beulah, Maine. "Beulah", if memory serves, is a Hebrew word used in ancient poetry and prophecy. At least in American English, it's usually translated as "married." They're partners who live in Married, Maine.
There was a scholar who painstakingly hand-translated the original Hebrew version of the Bible directly to English and found zero mentions of homosexuality being a sin, but rather they were references to _pedophilia_ being a sin. Before any _homophobes_ ask, no, the translation was verified and no, no one was paid to "alter" it. If anything, this is the purest translation there is, since it's a direct, professional Biblical-Hebrew-to-English translation. If something gets translated too many times, it begins to change. End of story.
yes because translators keep leaving out or adding or mistranslating stuff, intentionnal or not, across the centuries of translation. thats why its not religion im against, but the ones who propagate it. because why would we let imperfect beings try to spread the word of "perfect" gods???
It was also changed by which ever Ruler wanted it changed to fit their views, it also explains why Homophobia was on the rise around the Middle Ages suddenly. Christianity was gaining more footing, but it was around for a minimum of 500 years at that point meaning someone either mistranslated or changed it to fit a rhetoric.
Well, I use partner, to simply respect that all people who look like men don’t subscribe to gender. It’s a spectrum. There aren’t only two, and as a member of the community you should know and respect this. I used to say boyfriend, until I dated a non-binary person. I like my pronouns of she/her to be respected, and it’s not hard to respect others’.
@@mattymariah I was making a joke about the situation with the fake guy, and the other euphemism that existed through out the years to refer to someone gay in a relationship that could also be used. Personally I also would use partner ("pareja" to be more exact). Not everything is an attack dude.
the part about gay people then having used different terminology is something I really appreciated and wish more people realized. not to mention that in areas where i live, aka the deep south, it's also more common for "outdated terminology" to be used both by queer and non-queer people
Mhm, they had to in-order to stay discrete. It was dangerous otherwise, I'm just glad it's getting to be more of a normal thing in life over time. Bigots will always exist but I can hold my boyfriend's hand in public normally, though we still get weird looks because we are bi-racial. I don't get how that's the head turner, people are weird.
Wait, his name is Saul and he also noshes on rugelach? He's a gay Jew! I love it, as one myself, but oh boy that's gonna ruffle even more feathers and get some wild conspiracy rants going on the dingy parts of the internet.
Thanks for this, I didn’t know about this latest “first.” 🙄 The “changing history” and “historical accuracy” nonsense are so frustrating to me. One thing I noticed right away is that this sort-of acknowledged gay character is also clearly coded (though not described directly) as Jewish. I mean, “Saul Fitz,” a tailor, bakes rugelach, and use of the word “nosh”? So they managed a two-fer on the (vague) representation. But all those homophobes whining about accuracy probably don’t really expect depictions of the genuine anti-Semitism a character like that would face in that time period (not to mention the racism, misogyny, etc towards many of the others). The *existence* of qu**r folks, trans folks, black and brown folks, Jewish and Muslim folks and so on isn’t historically inaccurate- what’s inaccurate is depicting their existence without oppression. But that wouldn’t be very family friendly, would it? Sigh. After 60 years, I’m dead tired of still being expected to be invisible for the comfort of the straight white cis crowd. Btw, thanks for the heads up about CZcams’s censorship-though it annoys me no end to censor myself, I chose not to spell out the q word so yt wouldn’t drop kick my comment.
right?? so tired of the “historically inaccurate” argument. quiir people have been around FOR AGES, as far back as ancient civilizations. the only thing inaccurate is that these characters fortunately don’t have bigots oppressing them
This video explains perfectly that queer people are not flaunting ourselves every where but existing in a world that thinks that queer people are only in a few fairy tails or something. I'm actually going to give it a second watch.
Wow i never imagined people would be upset about Main Street USA not being accurate enough, who cares... it’s that long strip you have to pass through to get to the better areas in the park
Very thourough rebuttal of the arguments often made by these types of fans! It's way too often that people complain about "rewriting history" in places where history isn't even the real point. It always makes me smile when I see people online talk about how openly lgbt people in fantasy settings are unrealistic
Even as a kid I understood that main street is just "old timey America" vibes/aesthetic and not *actually* how the early 20th century was lmao. Also, gay people existed back then, and I don't doubt that some ran businesses with their partners, so I don't even understand the historical accuracy argument. So dumb.
It’s more that people were closeted. Back then it was dangerous to be openly gay, so usually people couldn’t go around saying they were gay and stuff. I don’t think it’s about gay people not existing. Just that many people were in denial/in the closet. For some people that existed back then, it’s not always easy to tell if they were gay. If you openly said you were gay, you would be socially ostracized. So people who were may have merely hinted at it, or had a secret life not many others had known about. I’m not super butthurt about this btw. I don’t really see an issue with a fake town not based in reality having a gay person, and I understand people like to identify with someone who’s like the . I’m just saying that it’s unrealistic to pretend things were all peachy all the time, and that’s probably what people were criticizing.
I was raised Southern Baptist and remember the boycott. I was a kid in deep denial about being the q word and I actually tried to participate by not watching Disney cartoons, ABC, etc. That lasted a week at which point my mom told me we would not be doing that, but don't mention it at church. I'm proud to say I have since come out, left the Southern Baptists, and went to Gay Day before the pandemic.
It’s crazy that Disney is seen such a big promoter of LGBT+ when they’re known as hypocritical in the community, at least my corner of it. I think people see a large company showing support for a movement means they’re giving large support
fr, homophobes, transphobes and the like always think "god!! Disney, the multi million dollar company, showed a PRIDE flag once!? THEY'RE WITH THE GAYS, THE ENEMY" all the time, but any reasonable queer person knows they do it to save face "Geez, Disney, the Multi million dollar company, showed ANOTHER pride flag on its manipulative marketing strategy of a social media platform" There's just no winning, man.
@@walnut_raisin2621 but maybe we can learn a thing or two from disney They don’t care who you are or how you look They just care about making some money
I have a theory that a lot homophobes and transphobes are the way they are because they’re afraid of possibly being lgbt+ (or even an ally), and especially of how their peers could view them. No matter your sexuality, there has been times when society has discouraged people from going even slightly outside the gender norms. Even in the 2000s, finding representation for LGBT+ was difficult. More good representation has made more people more understanding. What Yoda said in the Phantom Menace sums this up pretty well. “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
The ironic truth is that nearly all of the biggest homophobes are self-made victims. Hate is strong, fear is strong. But *Shame* is the emotion I see turn people into the monsters they fear. Shame has caused more harm than any other feeling combined. And whilst religious people will defend themselves against the accusation of spreading hate, they cannot defend themselves against an accusation of spreading shame. I love that we live in a time where we can't find as much hate anymore. Where the bullies we had in school are now friends who are out and proud. We're living through the greatest phase of healing. All over the globe, humanity is maturing. It is sad that there are still those too stubborn to get to be honest with themselves before they pass on from old age. So depressing to know these people lives a full life of despising themselves. But they will be the last to do so. The new generations will be born into the world WE give them. And we're going to let them be themselves right away. Shame will be a relic of the past. It's sort of amazing that we get to live IN THAT MOMENT where it's changing. That we get to live on both sides of this. Seeing how bad it started, and how good it will end. Sure we'd rather be in the future already where it's better. But I think we are still lucky to be witnesses to this.
@sweet mint i think the enemies to lovers arc needs fixing rather than throw it away all together. instead of just forgiving and forgetting the enemy's past offences, the enemy should acknowledge their wrong and make a strong point to better themselves
@sweet mint I don't think they necessarily mean all homophobes are secretly gay, I think they just mean any homophobe in general is just afraid of the concept that if other people can be gay. I might be gay too? Or the people I know could be gay? Like think about how much they use the, "But what about the children!" Argument. I also think it's possible to be a straight cis homophobe but legitimately scared of the thought of them being gay and or trans.
@@bobtheball5384 Yeah, at least a few probably are. Many transphobic people that I've heard about (online, at least) tend to hypermasculinize or hyperfeminise themselves. "I'm a man because I drive a truck with a manual transmission." kind of stuff. Idk about others, but for me, being confident in my gender means not having to do bs like tying it to arbitrary, stereotypically gendered things, and, generally, in my experience, the truly confident people aren't the ones who brag about things.
@@gentlemancharmander4411 yeah, people say you're born gay. But honestly I think most people today are gay because they're taught about homosexuality, if kids are taught about homosexuality they'll believe in it and may choose it. I mean homosexuality is widespread in western countries because it's taught. Look at other countries that don't teach/spread about homosexuality, there's barely any people with it.
@@humanperson318 of course I know, i live in one. I hope America stop projecting their sexuality problems on the world, we have different values and different culture.
Re: Main Street USA, when I went to Disney several years ago, the anachronistic merchandise they were selling in that area broke my immersion for sure. (And the same went for other areas of the park as well.) I feel that if these "historical purists" were sincere, they'd focus on that before whimpering and fuming about the presence of queer people and people of colour.
If Disney's Main Street was about historical accuracy every POC guest would have to enter through the back and anyone who complained would have a bunch of white pointed hats coming their way. Historical accuracy is a fundamentally stupid argument
@Radio Host The period it's meant to represent was in the heart of Segregation, before the Civil Rights Movement. This is not at all an exaggeration of how racist that time period was.
i mean, yeah they could try to do that, but they’d probably get shut down for it because you know, that’s wrong. every retelling changes a little from the story before it, so this really isn’t the best example
On the whole rewriting history thing: Main Street is just a theme park attraction, it's not real history but an idealized version of history. If you think so little of yourself that you think something in Disneyland somehow represents how things really were then the one who needs to rethink history is you
Oh, I am so happy to know that I am not a sinner! (My family follows Christianity as a religion and whenever they said that God loved everyone but homophobics, I kept wondering why. Thanks to you I feel more grateful than ever for not feeling that I'm just not what society expects I became a sinner or that God did not agree with my choices and that at any moment I would be punished.)
Reading this reminded me of this Twitter exchange and for some reason it keeps making me giggle remembering it so -(Picture of a gay couple holding hands or kissing or whatever in a Disney movie) "This is disgusting! Kids shouldn't be watching this!" -(Picture of Minnie and Mickey kissing) "So we should ban this too?" -"No, that's fine because they're boy and girl." -"They're rats."
What this reminds me of is the debate in role-playing game design about whether games with period or fantasy-period settings should strive to reflect the bigotry of those times, so that a player who decides to play as gay or black or a woman has to constantly deal with particular kinds of oppression. There are, of course, games that are *about* that. It's a valid subject for artistic exploration. But I once heard a (gay) gamemaster use the useful phrase "Fun Tax" to describe the effect-- players in any of these groups who want to play as characters resembling themselves end up penalized with this Fun Tax. Is it worth it? For most games, it probably isn't. For a Disney park it probably isn't either. This is a place that's supposed to be good and fun and comfortable for all kinds of visitors. That goal clearly already supersedes historical accuracy whenever they come into conflict. There's no sense in prioritizing the needs of people who want 110-year-old prejudices accurately represented over the needs of the people they were aimed at. (That's also one of the reasons the "Disney's America" US-history theme park was almost certainly a terrible idea. You can't both be brutally honest about history and not levy unequal Fun Taxes, and that puts amusement and educational goals at odds.)
Disney should have taken cues from Freedomland USA in Bronx, NY on why making a theme park out of US history (and by extension any country's history in general) is a terrible idea...
Here's the thing, the "bigotry" of those times is itself largely revisionist history, at least the way it's portrayed in media. The kind of rampant malicious sexism and racism often attributed to such times just didn't happen.
@@Nukestarmaster Specific examples and cited sources, please? Are you saying racist events like the Tulsa, Wounded Knee, or 1871 Chinese massacres are misrepresented in fictionalized media? Or that they either weren't that bad or didn't happen at all? Or are you saying those weren't malicious atrocities that were the result of rampant racism that had come to a boiling point? And those are just one example each of the MANY massacres against Indigenous/Indian, Black, and Chinese Americans. So if you have scholarly researched, peer reviewed documentation that massacres based on race actually had nothing to do with rampant racism, I'd love to see it because race massacres and the racism that made them possible are something I've done a lot of research in.
The only thing that annoys me about this new addition in Main Street is the art!!! Like who drew these boring looking non Disney like characters 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Thank you for making such an awesome video! This truly highlights many general misunderstandings of Disney fans today. As a non-binary student who will participating in the Disney College Program this upcoming January, I can’t lie when I say I am worried about how my time at the parks is going to go. I see the people who comment about how they don’t want these “progressive agendas” shoved in their face when riding on attractions like Jungle Cruise or Pirates. I am just really hoping that I am not seen as something Disney is doing to be “progressive”. I just hope I can be treated similarly to the parter on Main Street: present, but not important.
"Homophobic Disney fans" feels like a poorly written oxymoron, and it is still completely unsurprising. So many Disney movies have queer coded characters and theming. Amazing artists like Howard Ashman shaped the Disney renaissance. Its depressing to think that some fans are so bigoted that they can't fathom gay people making anything they love. Things like historical accuracy and influence only become a problem when they're involved, and its exhausting. And yet, Disney is somehow also one of the most shallow companies when it comes to actual representation. They've made *some* good choices, but they feel like baby steps. For every good thing, there are two or three bad things. So the side claiming Disney is supporting the "homosexual agenda" is also hilariously out of touch. What a mess lol.
I have a suggestion for a future topic - For a while now I've been trying to find out more about the life of Sterling Holloway (Winnie the Pooh, Kaa, Cheshire Cat, etc.) I think he may have been the first LGBTQ voice at Disney. Since he wasn't a major celebrity there's almost no info out there to confirm this, but there are signs - he never married, but he adopted an adult man, which some gay men did at the time to protect their partners. I've found statements here and there confirming his sexuality, but nothing concrete or trustworthy. It might be worth doing some serious research on, considering how much influence Holloway had on the Disney canon.
And this is why the planned themed park, Disney's America, was doomed from the start (as a kid I actually wrote to Disney and they sent me all the press release material--including art work--fascinating stuff).
@@GabyGeorge1996 Awww you don't know the, in retrospect kinda insane, history of the almost built Disney's America? Let me see if I can find a good link... This is probably the best history of it (and has a lot of the images that I have in the press booklet they sent me) czcams.com/video/-oqDqnQR5Aw/video.html
Thank you SO MUCH for mentioning the Tchaikovsky story! This is a special feature on my copy of Sleeping Beauty and it drove me crazy! I'm a straight woman, but I did a huge project on Tchaikovsky for my high school piano class. I particularly liked him because I grew up loving Sleeping Beauty and The Nutcracker, and as a teen I loved some music from Swan Lake and Romeo and Juliet. I learned that he was gay at age 16 or 17 doing research for my project. I found it disrespectful for Disney to erase or omit this part of his life. I find it rather hypocritical for Disney fans of all people to complain that welcoming LGBTQ members rewrites history. Doesn't every major Disney cartoon rewrite history? Imagine if they made Pocahontas historically accurate and marketed _that_ to children! Even the fairy tales are heavily sanitized from their original versions.
@@Nightther there's a distinction between the workers and the company, and confusing the teo greatly benefits the company at the expense of the workers.
One of the episodes of muppet babies (2018-present) gonzo was wearing a dress, and so many people got super angry about it because it was perverted and inappropriate for the kids to learn about LGBTQIA at such a young age. I don’t get why people get angry over a boy wearing a girls dress. I think Gonzo looked super adorable in it! I even had to watch the episode, and I didn’t see what all the fuss was about.
I don't understand why anyone would want a historically accurate Main Street USA. Who wants to go to a theme park where the streets are filled with horse excrement, like many cities were before cars became popular?
Why do they care so much? It's not like their favorite characters were changed, its just one dude in one house. This all feels very blown out of proportion. Just don't go there if it makes you uncomfortable and don't ruin it for those who like it.
Since the beginning, Disney has been about creating a fantasy where all your worries don't exist for a little while. This goes all the way back to their cartoons making people laugh during the great depression and WWII. This has evolved more recently into making their content relatable to everyone and making sure no one is excluded. If that includes ignoring unsavory aspects of history, then they will do that. The practice isn't perfect and comes with issues of idealization, but they are not claiming the real world doesn't exist and anyone that believes they are have been reading way too deep into things.
Fredrick the great of Prussia(1712 -1786) was gay it's known he had spent alone time with a male partner and was known as a "great flute player" although never seen playing the flute in public Alot of LGBT had exist throughout history and even existed in the early 1900
I wanted to thank you. I once was a very spiteful person, commented hate here, and now I am transitioning. you indirectly made my life so much more liveable. I cant thank you enough.
1:18 the song here (love like you, I think) reminded me of that one horrifying episode of adventure time with the elementals and i lost focus for the entire rest of the video
This is coming from a grey ace and I like that they are showing more real stories in the parks like this. Main Street is an idealistic American town and to me that means everyone is welcome to live there no matter their color, faith, creed or orientation.
@@tornadodee148 it kind of means you are Ace but you don’t quite fit one definition. For me I’m 100% asexual but on the romantic side I’m grey since some days I feel heteroromantic but other days I feel homoromantic but then I have some days where I’m aromantic. This can be different depending on the grey ace you ask.
Disney is too big for me to ever consider being a “fan”. They’re a corporation now, one of the biggest ones in the world, and no corporation really has the LGBTQIA+ community’s best interests at heart. Only money.
I think its funny that this guy has to create strawmen arguments in this video out of necessity since homophobic rhetoric often gets removed by site moderators.
I only really have a problem when existing characters get changed for no good reason. For Into the Spider-Verse, they didn't make Peter Parker black, they created a new character, fit it in believably with the story, and it turned out great. But they could have. I wouldn't have been mad if they *Did.* Because the movie was never supposed to be *The* Spider-Man movie, it was supposed to be A Spider-Man movie. The whole point was that it was different, so it makes sense. And that's why I don't think Gay Bakers on Main Street isn't that big a deal. It was never supposed to be Main Street, it was supposed to be a *Version* of Main Street.
I don't think this really has to do with gay, black, trans, etc. characters though. I think it has more to do with the consolidation of the modern film industry, and the relative complacency of audiences allowing them to get away with a lack of new IPs. You can see this in the relentless number of reboots, from Star Wars to both the recent Ghostbusters films to things like Wreck it Ralph 2 and Incredibles 2, all the way to even the MCU. These aren't problematic because they have gay characters, in fact many of them are lacking in diversity. What ties them together is that they are unoriginal, and when people focus on gender swapping or making a character gay, it feels like they are focusing on the wrong part, that they're missing the bigger picture. And it feels as though a very valid and relevant concern is being hijacked by bad actors, or at the very least at the risk of being hijacked.
Theres a real argument to be made about Disney rewriting history. Specifically their own history of using... lets say less than ideal stereotypes in a number of their older movies Because they sure dont seem eager to acknowledge that nowadays as they try to profile themselves as a nice, progressive company while simultaneously refusing to incorporate any values in their projects that cant be just as easily removed for the Chinese market.
It's Disneyland, it's not a museum and it's not colonial Williamsburg either. If it were either of those things I could understand their complaints, but it's not, it's literally the theme park version of history (even calling it that seems a bit a shakey since I don't think they ever pin down a year and say this is America during that time).
But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” Genesis 19:4-8 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:22
It makes me laugh when people rant about how American popular culture promoted "traditional moral values" in the past. It NEVER did! Entertainers and artists were forced to mask their agendas back in the days of censorship, but most of them still cared a lot more about entertaining people than about imparting moral lessons that the audience could easily get elsewhere (parents, school, church, etc.) anyway. And this applied to Walt Disney himself. He created a ride that celebrated PIRATES, for crying out loud! Oh yes, pirates are definitely paragons of morality. They even sing a funny song about how evil they are!
To be fair, On the surface level it would seem they are glorifying pirates but the original pirates ride did show they had consequences for their actions. At the end of the ride while they're drunk off their asses after pilaging a town they get into a gun powder storage area and its implied they blow themselves up firing their guns in the room while celebrating. Another ride that shows there are consequences for your actions is mr toads wild ride, after driving recklessly around the countryside and commiting countless acts of attempted manslaughter with a vehicle and numerous property damage you ram into an oncoming train and end up in hell. Just thought id point these out cause its an interesting observation and that the creators of these rides did think about moral consequences.
@@KaiRubix I'll admit, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride did frighten me when I was a child. But I never felt I received any moral lesson from Pirates of the Caribbean. That's why I consider it no big deal that the pirates used to be chasing women. It's just something that pirates do. They weren't saying it was right and they weren't saying it was wrong; they were just saying it was funny.
The person asking about partner meaning business partner was most likely not from an english speaking country. And, like me, thought that the term partner was used both in private and business quite regularly. I saw partner and also thought, well could be business partner, because my mind went to "partner in a law firm" first. I keep missing important information for context too, like the "it's all hobby bakers" so I really relate to that person. Smashing into embarassing situations of "aah no, no that's not what that means" is an unfortunate hobby of mine. I don't believe they meant any harm and it was just a genuine question.
What is your favorite LGBTQ moment you've had at a Disney theme park? Mine is my super gay honeymoon from last year - I felt like a non-binary princess🏳️🌈 (CZcams is still censoring the q-word from the comments, so please know I am not deleting your comments!)
Aw, cute! It's been years since I've been to a park, I wish I could have a moment like that in the future ^_^ (I've never seen the q-word used as a slur on the internet, why is youtube even censoring it lol)
@@luciel7751 It has been used as a very nasty slur for a very long time. It has only been getting reclaimed by LGBTQ individuals in the modern context. There are many, many people who still find it highly offensive because in their personal experience it was only used as a weapon. For decades the Q in LGBTQ did not represent Questioning and was used by individuals who felt like it fit them while also using it as a defiant but quiet way to flip the middle finger at those who tried to use it in a hurtful way. Kinda still a complex and potentially triggering word for a lot of people.
@@LovelyJayBlueASMR Yes I know that, but on the internet it seems to me like it's never used in a nasty way, as I said, I've never seen it used that way here. And I assume that youtube censors words such as q to prevent people from using it in a hateful way towards us, but in practice it probably only stops people reclaiming it from using it, which is why it's confusing
I was only 11, and it was my first time. I’m trans, and being able to put on the Minnie ears instead of Mickey (this was the late 90’s) was a revelation. But my favorite moment was meeting Ariel. I geeked out so hard.
I still haven’t found a partner. But when I do I’m getting married in live action Cinderella’s dress. And that will be my favorite Disney q**** moment.
Thank you for your videos. They’re so thoughtful, and honestly this one brought me to tears. Thank you so much.
I never went to a disney theme park. the closest one is Disneyland Paris, and thats a little problem, because when I visit a country, I want to speak basic tourist questions in their language. And french is a bitch.
If people are worried about Disney rewriting history, Pocahontas would be locked away with Song of the South.
I now need some art or comic of Saul showing new sweet concepts to Gary in a cute domestic setting.
I would adore seeing such art or comics!
I want…to do it…
@@zenith_zenith Do it!!!
@@zenith_zenith I would even be willing to throw a few dollars at you for it if you have something like patreon or koffi and the like (tip jar for a creator instead of sale of things, so you won't risk getting into copyright trouble), and I doubt I would be the only one.
Fucking preach. I cannot go deeper into words on how disgusting that film is from a native perspective. I love the soundtrack,I love the art, but the viewing experience is so bitter sweet knowing that this movie is far from truthful. Pocahontas is probably to closest to "mainstream representation" for native girls I can find,yet it is riddled with historical inaccuracies,and the romanticism of a disgusting story. Anyways I'll get off my soap box
I still just cannot wrap my mind around homophobia.
Seeing two guys kiss isn't going to turn you gay, and if it is, then you weren't straight to begin with.
Fun fact: bad fan fiction is why there’s Christian hatred to homosexuals. Before the popular integration of Dante’s Inferno there’s actually evidence that most Christian sects saw homosexuality with indifference.
Beyond that, I’d argue it comes down to either experiences or lack of familiarity with the subject.
Colonizers apparently thought that there were 1 too many of them & ultimately decided to be against them, even though there were many straight couples making babies like crazy.
@{𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝒮𝒾𝓁𝓋𝑒𝓇 𝑀𝑜𝑜𝓃} They're referring to Dante's Inferno being bad fan fiction :P Since it was a fictional novel not meant to be seen as real, but Christians looking for a boogey man and a way to describe what will happen if you don't follow their religion latched onto it and now a lot of Christians describe Hell as the fictional world of Dante's Inferno. Basically they read some bad fan fiction and tried to make it real to scare people into being religious.
Also there's a gay man in the Bible. Makes no sense why it's supposedly wrong. Also if all sins are supposedly equal, then why is being gay put up there with the 7 deadly sins? It's not even in the commandments. It shows they are just using religion as a way to excuse bigotry. The Bible also says not to force religion on people and to be nice to people, and even sinners, treating them like people, and also to not preach in the streets. They also say the old testament doesn't count, but they still apply the being gay part to their religion for no reason.
@{𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝒮𝒾𝓁𝓋𝑒𝓇 𝑀𝑜𝑜𝓃} they’re talking about Dante’s Inferno; wasn’t official religious doctrine, but many Christian organizations adopted it as their view of hell.
@@nodishtoodeep3053 that’s sad, creative writing causes hatred of a group of people that just want to live life? Sounds like an excuse on their part.
I love how at the beginning in the recording that guy said that Disney is “pro-homosexual”, like, there is a cartoon on Disney channel that is getting cut short bc it doesn’t “fit the Disney brand” aka the main character is in a gay relationship and the Disney execs aren’t happy about it. Disney is not very pro-gay, actually.
Cutting Owl House season 3 is just pathetic. Like how lower can you go from there
@@obitosenju3768 lmao right
No they’re cutting it so they can focus on appealing to the chinese market
It’s just business
@@PK-Radio Because of the gay content. If they had any integrity at all, they would stop appealing to China. Yes, they would loose out on money, but thats just the cost of having human decency.
@@Gamer_G33k looking at tencent and how they are currently getting backstabbed by the regime, i dont think its even business viable to appeal to china
Main Street has always been someone’s idealized version of history. And I don’t know about you all, but having a gay partner who bakes is certainly my ideal!
Yes
I dont get gay part, i can only see a trustin pathner, can you tell me how is it gay?.
Sometimes i had a hard times understading how people read some characters as gay, the talk he give dont really make much sense to me because from where i am is comoon to call whatever any person to work whit, patner includer , there[s black which is say about lazy people and not black people and there is just calling them by they nation, patner is rather a comoon saying that i just cant see it that way, i want to know how does it work.
I have never seen people in here who call themselves gay and i remenber when i gay was used as an insult in school years but nowdays i dont hear those being metion so i really have not understading of that.
@@erugurara8235 it's cause he said partner instead of wife
@@erugurara8235 It does not explicitly say they are gay. It’s subtext. If you think about it a bit more you can see how it comes off that way. Saul bakes in his home after work, and shares his dessert with his partner. I dunno, is baking for your business partner something people do that often? I think it’s more likely that they are romantic partners, since this is the kind of wording often used for gay relationships. I think you would have fo deliberately ignore the gay interpretation in order to read this as just a business relationship.
@@acehealer4212 sorry i dont have wording as naturraly gay, i am happy you can get some semblance of aceptance like this but i belive is just very easy to confuse.
Also from being in a relationship whit a pizaria i can tell you that they would make dinner to our part of the team on ocassion as a show of a good conection.
i dont intend of negating the love but i can see that kind of love from the subxtest.
I always thought the argument of not having homosexual characters in shows/movies because it'll "taint" kids as a stupid argument. I've been exposed to heterosexual characters throughout my childhood/teenage years. That didn't make me straight.
We need more based gays, like hadrian.
That's a good line, mind if I steal it?
@@meemog916 Go ahead, I've noticed using their logic against them makes them think about it, but in the end, it still doesn't change their minds because they're not open-minded to the fact that kids won't magically become gay if they see gay stuff in tv shows/movies.
Because being gay is not normal? It doesn't matter what you pretend really. Society is built on heterosexual couples who have children at its most basic core.
@@tarsicio2426 there are enough heterosexual couples having children for people to be gay and not have children. its not like their taking over the world or anything.
"You're rewriting history!"
Yes. That's what Disney does. Solve a mystery and rewrite history. DuckTales! Woo-Hoo!
(Sorry. As a lifelong Donald Duck and Carl Barks fan I had to make that joke. The new DuckTales 2017 show is my new favourite cartoon it's just... so good).
On a more serious note, if it's suppose to be an idealised version of the past, why can't it include ethnical and LGBTQ+ minorities? Isn't a version of the past where everyone was welcomed and respected no matter their skin-colour, nation of origin or sexual/gender identity an ideal version of the past? It's my ideal version of the future at least.
As a person who is not an American:
The USA is A L W A Y S sold to us as a land of opportunity open for everyone regardless of who they are.
It’s very ironic if you think of how it actually is. And that’s coming from someone who doesn’t live there.
The "conservatives" have the ideal world more akin to Song Of The South than what you and I would consider ideal. "White" heteronormativity being king and everyone else being grateful 'servants' and 'workers'...
It's pretty weird, and disturbing. They don't really view others' peaceful happiness as valid, but as threats to their dominancy.
@@TinNguyen-rl2xr Yet most of them are explicitly straight, which is a sexuality. Your point being?
Who is you favourite triplet?
You’re my new favorite person. Another LGBTQ (or ally not gonna assume) fan of DuckTales 2017!! I adore the show and love the little representation we get from Violet’s dads!!
As an autistic ace, the whole “partner” thing threw me off, as I didn’t interpret it in terms of sexual orientation. It only dawned on me a couple of minutes after watching the video that if they didn’t want to hint at it, the word “associate” would’ve been used.
As a bi person, I also automatically assumed it meant business partner, funnily enough. Going by Disney's other poor excuses for representation in their movies, it was most likely made vague on purpose to not completely alienate the homophobic side of their audience; they still want as much money as possible, even if it means trying to play both sides.
Yeah understandable. A partner can mean many things. Someone you work with, Someone you're in love with, and someone who you have an emotional bond with, since it means many things it's not always obvious but it's there. You're still awesome
That's funny!
I knew what they were getting at, I just figured that 'partner' had wayyy more plausible deniability than 'husband' or 'significant other'
The context clues about how Saul unwinds by baking and his partner enjoys eating the snacks definitely implies that they’re living together after work.
You can't love Disney if you're homophobic, Howard Ashman was a proud gay man who is the reason for Disney's success and what it is today, if it weren't for a gay man with a vision Disney would be Touchstone Pictures and both Disneyland and Disneyworld would have been bought by Universal.
Preach, my friend! Had Howard not made The Little Mermaid into the success it is, Disney would look much different today, and their animation department would all but cease to exist.
@@mattymariah Disney should put up a Howard Ashman statue in every Disney park because had Howard never existed Disneyland would have rotted away into obscurity like Pacific Island Park
try again
@@juliannehannes11 it would be really cool if diseny placed big figures from there history around the parks
@@thesardonicrenegade no
how is it that i'm a massive fan of Tchaikovsky's works AND a lesbian, but i was today years old when i found out he was gay???
i gotta remind myself, all tragic 19th century romances are gay in subtext!!
If you're interested, I recommend Alexander Poznansky's work on Tchaikovsky. His research is very thorough and covers a wide variety of aspects of Tchaikovsky's life, including his sexuality and relationships.
That's more than just abit homophobic to assume all work written by a gay person (let alone an entire subgentre) has a 'gay subtext'. Its literally prejudice and segriationist.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 bro i'm gay it's a joke
All?
Sounds like a bit of a generalization there
@@PK-Radio calm down, it’s not that serious . Op stated that it’s a joke
Walt’s creation of a world based on his own orientation and opinions of “family values” has become more interesting to me as I learn and discover more about the LGBQ+ history within Disney. Unfortunately I doubt I would be shocked by the answer (nor should I care what a dead man thinks), but I wonder how Walt would feel about the progress that’s been made to include a part of society that he was likely blind or ignorant to. It’s difficult to find an accurate account of his personal persona and values in a way that doesn’t feel filtered and scrubbed to maintain the “Disney brand”.
Great video as always, today I learned Tchaikovsky was gay
That’s what I want to hear about as well. Especially with the more inclusive image that Disney is cultivating (and I love them for it), it’d be interesting to have at least a glimpse into the mind of the people who started it all.
Considering the kind of creatives that Walt surrounded himself with, I can’t imagine him being violently homophobic, but he would clearly have had a very different mindset from ours.
I was thinking about that too. I wish I could know what he’d think. I want to be optimistic and think he’d be accepting of lgbt+ people considering his ideals and things like how the Native Americans at old Frontierland weren’t just there for people to ogle at, but to share their different cultures, and Saludos Amigos/Three Caballeros being genuine and researched and how Walt seemed interested in learning how different kinds of people live their lives. I mean of course there’s always not great things like the stuff in Peter Pan or Dumbo but I’ve always felt those were misguided products of time (not that that makes it acceptable) rather than genuine prejudice. But if anyone has better insight or if I sound like a fool, please lmk
I agree !
I can’t tell if you left the T out on purpose or not.
@@-inightmare-371 me neither
The only title more evident than "partner" was "very good friend" and "life long roomate"
"bed sharer"
"... and they were roommates"
@@kovatoro "oh my god they were roommates"
They called them room-mates, besties, close friends everything but lovers
"Never married, and lived their whole life with their roomate, they were buried together"
Keeping homophobic Disney """"fans"""" out of the parks is a good thing
^^^ This
Agreed
I personally think that the real issue here is that they feel so privileged that they don't keep their acidic vitriol to themselves. This inherently does not make them less of a fan as anyone else, it just makes them a privileged piece of stinking, rotten trash. Exclusionary splitting hairs is really a slippery slope. As a Trans person I certainly don't condone LGBTQ+ hating people running rampant, but at the same time I will still argue that they can be a fan even if we don't agree with them.
Shorter lines if the homophobes leave
racist
Sure, a gay man is unbelievable and not fit Main Street, but the mouse the size of human and magical British woman with the penguins fit right in. Go back to the mall parking lot carnivals, ya goobers.
Also, to answer your questions, my first disney trip back when I was 9 happened to be during Pride and I pointed to a gay couple and said to my conservative mother “they’re holding hands like we are!”
u make a rlly good point and i dont wanna make fun of u but u describe the british lady like her being british is what makes her unbelievable but honestly, true 💀💀
JK Rowling has characters who shapeshift, but hates trans people. Bigotry is stupid.
@@Aster_Risk lol good point. Changing into a kitty = very cute, highly marketable; changing into a version of yourself with pink hair = very quirky, highly marketable; changing into a version of yourself with masculine/feminine features = ew gross, also that's oppressing women
@@Aster_Risk yep
@@coal1818 BRI ISH
It's supposed to be an idealized version of the past, can't other people's ideal version of the past include one where they exist?
Wait until somebody notices that Saul Fitz and his partner live in Beulah, Maine.
"Beulah", if memory serves, is a Hebrew word used in ancient poetry and prophecy. At least in American English, it's usually translated as "married."
They're partners who live in Married, Maine.
genius. your hired. ;P
There was a scholar who painstakingly hand-translated the original Hebrew version of the Bible directly to English and found zero mentions of homosexuality being a sin, but rather they were references to _pedophilia_ being a sin. Before any _homophobes_ ask, no, the translation was verified and no, no one was paid to "alter" it. If anything, this is the purest translation there is, since it's a direct, professional Biblical-Hebrew-to-English translation.
If something gets translated too many times, it begins to change. End of story.
Cool! Do you know their name? I’d love to research/look into them
muh hebrew translations bro.......
I gotta know their name
yes because translators keep leaving out or adding or mistranslating stuff, intentionnal or not, across the centuries of translation. thats why its not religion im against, but the ones who propagate it. because why would we let imperfect beings try to spread the word of "perfect" gods???
It was also changed by which ever Ruler wanted it changed to fit their views, it also explains why Homophobia was on the rise around the Middle Ages suddenly. Christianity was gaining more footing, but it was around for a minimum of 500 years at that point meaning someone either mistranslated or changed it to fit a rhetoric.
My thought train when I hear the word partner
Partner=roommate in an apartment with only one bed or gal pal or friend of Dorothy, etc
The word that saves you when you have to mention your s/o but you don't want to out yourself to strangers/acquaintances
Well, I use partner, to simply respect that all people who look like men don’t subscribe to gender. It’s a spectrum. There aren’t only two, and as a member of the community you should know and respect this. I used to say boyfriend, until I dated a non-binary person. I like my pronouns of she/her to be respected, and it’s not hard to respect others’.
In fact the person who runs this CZcams is non-binary. Perhaps ask them how your rude comment makes them feel.
@@mattymariah I was making a joke about the situation with the fake guy, and the other euphemism that existed through out the years to refer to someone gay in a relationship that could also be used. Personally I also would use partner ("pareja" to be more exact). Not everything is an attack dude.
@@mattymariah and btw, I use dude as a gender neutral term.
the part about gay people then having used different terminology is something I really appreciated and wish more people realized. not to mention that in areas where i live, aka the deep south, it's also more common for "outdated terminology" to be used both by queer and non-queer people
Mhm, they had to in-order to stay discrete. It was dangerous otherwise, I'm just glad it's getting to be more of a normal thing in life over time. Bigots will always exist but I can hold my boyfriend's hand in public normally, though we still get weird looks because we are bi-racial. I don't get how that's the head turner, people are weird.
For the algorithm- thank you for all your work, artistry, and heart in every video.
Wait, his name is Saul and he also noshes on rugelach? He's a gay Jew! I love it, as one myself, but oh boy that's gonna ruffle even more feathers and get some wild conspiracy rants going on the dingy parts of the internet.
Your no Jew, you do not know shit about religion.
I don't have anything I want to say but i'll comment anyway because i want this video to reach more people. Oh and have a great day!
I wasn't going to reply but then I wanted to thank you for being an ally
@ShaisPas lmao
Thanks for this, I didn’t know about this latest “first.” 🙄 The “changing history” and “historical accuracy” nonsense are so frustrating to me. One thing I noticed right away is that this sort-of acknowledged gay character is also clearly coded (though not described directly) as Jewish. I mean, “Saul Fitz,” a tailor, bakes rugelach, and use of the word “nosh”? So they managed a two-fer on the (vague) representation. But all those homophobes whining about accuracy probably don’t really expect depictions of the genuine anti-Semitism a character like that would face in that time period (not to mention the racism, misogyny, etc towards many of the others). The *existence* of qu**r folks, trans folks, black and brown folks, Jewish and Muslim folks and so on isn’t historically inaccurate- what’s inaccurate is depicting their existence without oppression. But that wouldn’t be very family friendly, would it? Sigh. After 60 years, I’m dead tired of still being expected to be invisible for the comfort of the straight white cis crowd.
Btw, thanks for the heads up about CZcams’s censorship-though it annoys me no end to censor myself, I chose not to spell out the q word so yt wouldn’t drop kick my comment.
right?? so tired of the “historically inaccurate” argument. quiir people have been around FOR AGES, as far back as ancient civilizations. the only thing inaccurate is that these characters fortunately don’t have bigots oppressing them
i'm straight, white, and cis. AMA
@@abcdefgh-fb5ny woah woah woah, okay. Sure quiir people have been around for quite a time but not THAT far back, I would say since the 1940s
Thank you literaterose for writing this, more people need to see this comment.
@@Nightther oh boy you naive little lamb.
This video explains perfectly that queer people are not flaunting ourselves every where but existing in a world that thinks that queer people are only in a few fairy tails or something. I'm actually going to give it a second watch.
Wow i never imagined people would be upset about Main Street USA not being accurate enough, who cares... it’s that long strip you have to pass through to get to the better areas in the park
Very thourough rebuttal of the arguments often made by these types of fans! It's way too often that people complain about "rewriting history" in places where history isn't even the real point. It always makes me smile when I see people online talk about how openly lgbt people in fantasy settings are unrealistic
Even as a kid I understood that main street is just "old timey America" vibes/aesthetic and not *actually* how the early 20th century was lmao. Also, gay people existed back then, and I don't doubt that some ran businesses with their partners, so I don't even understand the historical accuracy argument. So dumb.
It’s more that people were closeted. Back then it was dangerous to be openly gay, so usually people couldn’t go around saying they were gay and stuff. I don’t think it’s about gay people not existing. Just that many people were in denial/in the closet. For some people that existed back then, it’s not always easy to tell if they were gay. If you openly said you were gay, you would be socially ostracized. So people who were may have merely hinted at it, or had a secret life not many others had known about. I’m not super butthurt about this btw. I don’t really see an issue with a fake town not based in reality having a gay person, and I understand people like to identify with someone who’s like the . I’m just saying that it’s unrealistic to pretend things were all peachy all the time, and that’s probably what people were criticizing.
I was raised Southern Baptist and remember the boycott. I was a kid in deep denial about being the q word and I actually tried to participate by not watching Disney cartoons, ABC, etc. That lasted a week at which point my mom told me we would not be doing that, but don't mention it at church.
I'm proud to say I have since come out, left the Southern Baptists, and went to Gay Day before the pandemic.
I died when the background noise said Disney was the biggest supporter of the "homosexual lifestyle".
I wish they were!
It’s crazy that Disney is seen such a big promoter of LGBT+ when they’re known as hypocritical in the community, at least my corner of it. I think people see a large company showing support for a movement means they’re giving large support
fr, homophobes, transphobes and the like always think "god!! Disney, the multi million dollar company, showed a PRIDE flag once!? THEY'RE WITH THE GAYS, THE ENEMY" all the time, but any reasonable queer person knows they do it to save face "Geez, Disney, the Multi million dollar company, showed ANOTHER pride flag on its manipulative marketing strategy of a social media platform" There's just no winning, man.
That’s cuz disney doesn’t care about you or me
It’s all their marketing strategy
@@PK-Radio exactly
@@systemoverrider4270 that sounds like a pretty massive generalization my guy
@@walnut_raisin2621 but maybe we can learn a thing or two from disney
They don’t care who you are or how you look
They just care about making some money
Loved your message about protecting positive queer history near the end; influencing a better future.
I have a theory that a lot homophobes and transphobes are the way they are because they’re afraid of possibly being lgbt+ (or even an ally), and especially of how their peers could view them. No matter your sexuality, there has been times when society has discouraged people from going even slightly outside the gender norms. Even in the 2000s, finding representation for LGBT+ was difficult. More good representation has made more people more understanding. What Yoda said in the Phantom Menace sums this up pretty well. “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”
The ironic truth is that nearly all of the biggest homophobes are self-made victims. Hate is strong, fear is strong. But *Shame* is the emotion I see turn people into the monsters they fear. Shame has caused more harm than any other feeling combined. And whilst religious people will defend themselves against the accusation of spreading hate, they cannot defend themselves against an accusation of spreading shame.
I love that we live in a time where we can't find as much hate anymore. Where the bullies we had in school are now friends who are out and proud. We're living through the greatest phase of healing. All over the globe, humanity is maturing. It is sad that there are still those too stubborn to get to be honest with themselves before they pass on from old age. So depressing to know these people lives a full life of despising themselves. But they will be the last to do so. The new generations will be born into the world WE give them. And we're going to let them be themselves right away. Shame will be a relic of the past. It's sort of amazing that we get to live IN THAT MOMENT where it's changing. That we get to live on both sides of this. Seeing how bad it started, and how good it will end. Sure we'd rather be in the future already where it's better. But I think we are still lucky to be witnesses to this.
@sweet mint i think the enemies to lovers arc needs fixing rather than throw it away all together. instead of just forgiving and forgetting the enemy's past offences, the enemy should acknowledge their wrong and make a strong point to better themselves
I hate when people accuse homophobes of being gay, that’s just shifting the blame
@sweet mint
I don't think they necessarily mean all homophobes are secretly gay, I think they just mean any homophobe in general is just afraid of the concept that if other people can be gay. I might be gay too? Or the people I know could be gay? Like think about how much they use the, "But what about the children!" Argument. I also think it's possible to be a straight cis homophobe but legitimately scared of the thought of them being gay and or trans.
@@bobtheball5384 Yeah, at least a few probably are. Many transphobic people that I've heard about (online, at least) tend to hypermasculinize or hyperfeminise themselves. "I'm a man because I drive a truck with a manual transmission." kind of stuff. Idk about others, but for me, being confident in my gender means not having to do bs like tying it to arbitrary, stereotypically gendered things, and, generally, in my experience, the truly confident people aren't the ones who brag about things.
I'm glad these videos exist, I've been thoroughly brainwashed as a closeted bi whatever and I know quite literally nothing about Queer history.
@@gentlemancharmander4411 wtf kind of crack are you on?
@@gentlemancharmander4411 My bi what?
@@gentlemancharmander4411 yeah, people say you're born gay. But honestly I think most people today are gay because they're taught about homosexuality, if kids are taught about homosexuality they'll believe in it and may choose it.
I mean homosexuality is widespread in western countries because it's taught.
Look at other countries that don't teach/spread about homosexuality, there's barely any people with it.
@@ikram1572 in many countries being gay is illegal. And plus there isn’t much acceptance for it anywhere else. Use your common sense.
@@humanperson318 of course I know, i live in one. I hope America stop projecting their sexuality problems on the world, we have different values and different culture.
TCHAIKOVSKY WAS GAY?!?!?!?
his entire personality and career
@@pemgeg3100 so more than just ‘a phase’…gotcha 🤣💪🏼
Rewriting history? Have they seen Pocahontas??
Re: Main Street USA, when I went to Disney several years ago, the anachronistic merchandise they were selling in that area broke my immersion for sure. (And the same went for other areas of the park as well.) I feel that if these "historical purists" were sincere, they'd focus on that before whimpering and fuming about the presence of queer people and people of colour.
If Disney's Main Street was about historical accuracy every POC guest would have to enter through the back and anyone who complained would have a bunch of white pointed hats coming their way. Historical accuracy is a fundamentally stupid argument
That’s the most ridiculous exaggeration I’ve ever heard
@Radio Host The period it's meant to represent was in the heart of Segregation, before the Civil Rights Movement. This is not at all an exaggeration of how racist that time period was.
i mean, yeah they could try to do that, but they’d probably get shut down for it because you know, that’s wrong. every retelling changes a little from the story before it, so this really isn’t the best example
Also, no paseuterization.
On the whole rewriting history thing: Main Street is just a theme park attraction, it's not real history but an idealized version of history. If you think so little of yourself that you think something in Disneyland somehow represents how things really were then the one who needs to rethink history is you
Oh, I am so happy to know that I am not a sinner! (My family follows Christianity as a religion and whenever they said that God loved everyone but homophobics, I kept wondering why. Thanks to you I feel more grateful than ever for not feeling that I'm just not what society expects I became a sinner or that God did not agree with my choices and that at any moment I would be punished.)
Reading this reminded me of this Twitter exchange and for some reason it keeps making me giggle remembering it so
-(Picture of a gay couple holding hands or kissing or whatever in a Disney movie) "This is disgusting! Kids shouldn't be watching this!"
-(Picture of Minnie and Mickey kissing) "So we should ban this too?"
-"No, that's fine because they're boy and girl."
-"They're rats."
What this reminds me of is the debate in role-playing game design about whether games with period or fantasy-period settings should strive to reflect the bigotry of those times, so that a player who decides to play as gay or black or a woman has to constantly deal with particular kinds of oppression. There are, of course, games that are *about* that. It's a valid subject for artistic exploration. But I once heard a (gay) gamemaster use the useful phrase "Fun Tax" to describe the effect-- players in any of these groups who want to play as characters resembling themselves end up penalized with this Fun Tax. Is it worth it? For most games, it probably isn't. For a Disney park it probably isn't either. This is a place that's supposed to be good and fun and comfortable for all kinds of visitors. That goal clearly already supersedes historical accuracy whenever they come into conflict. There's no sense in prioritizing the needs of people who want 110-year-old prejudices accurately represented over the needs of the people they were aimed at.
(That's also one of the reasons the "Disney's America" US-history theme park was almost certainly a terrible idea. You can't both be brutally honest about history and not levy unequal Fun Taxes, and that puts amusement and educational goals at odds.)
I refuse to play games with people like that.
Disney should have taken cues from Freedomland USA in Bronx, NY on why making a theme park out of US history (and by extension any country's history in general) is a terrible idea...
Here's the thing, the "bigotry" of those times is itself largely revisionist history, at least the way it's portrayed in media. The kind of rampant malicious sexism and racism often attributed to such times just didn't happen.
@@Nukestarmaster Specific examples and cited sources, please? Are you saying racist events like the Tulsa, Wounded Knee, or 1871 Chinese massacres are misrepresented in fictionalized media? Or that they either weren't that bad or didn't happen at all? Or are you saying those weren't malicious atrocities that were the result of rampant racism that had come to a boiling point?
And those are just one example each of the MANY massacres against Indigenous/Indian, Black, and Chinese Americans. So if you have scholarly researched, peer reviewed documentation that massacres based on race actually had nothing to do with rampant racism, I'd love to see it because race massacres and the racism that made them possible are something I've done a lot of research in.
@@sharnisestreaty9286 You're talking about several hundred years later. I'm talking about the middle ages.
Lumity : am I a joke to you?
Rain : am i a joke to you?
most of the owl house characters : am I a joke to you?
yeah and then disney cancelled the show
Meanwhile the MCU be like:
“Take these weaklings!”
The only thing that annoys me about this new addition in Main Street is the art!!! Like who drew these boring looking non Disney like characters 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
imagine being like "disneyland is the happiest place in the world (except for the gays)" and thinking you're on the right side of history
Oh yes, that stereotypical 19th century Main Street...with a castle at the end of it.
When I saw baptist in a tag I got a RUSH of embarrassment as a baptist gay
Thank you for making such an awesome video! This truly highlights many general misunderstandings of Disney fans today. As a non-binary student who will participating in the Disney College Program this upcoming January, I can’t lie when I say I am worried about how my time at the parks is going to go. I see the people who comment about how they don’t want these “progressive agendas” shoved in their face when riding on attractions like Jungle Cruise or Pirates. I am just really hoping that I am not seen as something Disney is doing to be “progressive”. I just hope I can be treated similarly to the parter on Main Street: present, but not important.
"Homophobic Disney fans" feels like a poorly written oxymoron, and it is still completely unsurprising. So many Disney movies have queer coded characters and theming. Amazing artists like Howard Ashman shaped the Disney renaissance. Its depressing to think that some fans are so bigoted that they can't fathom gay people making anything they love. Things like historical accuracy and influence only become a problem when they're involved, and its exhausting.
And yet, Disney is somehow also one of the most shallow companies when it comes to actual representation. They've made *some* good choices, but they feel like baby steps. For every good thing, there are two or three bad things. So the side claiming Disney is supporting the "homosexual agenda" is also hilariously out of touch. What a mess lol.
Easily the best take I've seen in this shitshow of a comment section so far
I have a suggestion for a future topic - For a while now I've been trying to find out more about the life of Sterling Holloway (Winnie the Pooh, Kaa, Cheshire Cat, etc.) I think he may have been the first LGBTQ voice at Disney. Since he wasn't a major celebrity there's almost no info out there to confirm this, but there are signs - he never married, but he adopted an adult man, which some gay men did at the time to protect their partners. I've found statements here and there confirming his sexuality, but nothing concrete or trustworthy. It might be worth doing some serious research on, considering how much influence Holloway had on the Disney canon.
Very interesting! I've always loved his voice, and am delighted when I see him pop up in things, like The Twilight Zone.
He was clearly either closeted gay or semi-open ace from what little I read, so either way....
Every time a conservative talks about "cancel culture", show them this video.
Thank you for the beautiful cover at the end
And this is why the planned themed park, Disney's America, was doomed from the start (as a kid I actually wrote to Disney and they sent me all the press release material--including art work--fascinating stuff).
What planned theme park?
@@GabyGeorge1996 Awww you don't know the, in retrospect kinda insane, history of the almost built Disney's America? Let me see if I can find a good link... This is probably the best history of it (and has a lot of the images that I have in the press booklet they sent me) czcams.com/video/-oqDqnQR5Aw/video.html
Disney is a soulless corporation.
Saul Fitz will never know how much i love him. How can you hate his lovely smiling face???
Thank you SO MUCH for mentioning the Tchaikovsky story! This is a special feature on my copy of Sleeping Beauty and it drove me crazy! I'm a straight woman, but I did a huge project on Tchaikovsky for my high school piano class. I particularly liked him because I grew up loving Sleeping Beauty and The Nutcracker, and as a teen I loved some music from Swan Lake and Romeo and Juliet. I learned that he was gay at age 16 or 17 doing research for my project. I found it disrespectful for Disney to erase or omit this part of his life.
I find it rather hypocritical for Disney fans of all people to complain that welcoming LGBTQ members rewrites history. Doesn't every major Disney cartoon rewrite history? Imagine if they made Pocahontas historically accurate and marketed _that_ to children! Even the fairy tales are heavily sanitized from their original versions.
Didn’t know you were trans, yay!
Also let Saul and Gary be happy
Ah yes, the 7th time Disney revealed their 1st LGBT character.
HOW ARE THERE NO COMMENTS YET
Because the content is THAT mesmerizing
disney: *literally the absolute LEAST and most subtle and very VERY lightly opinion viewable as gay, thing possible*
straight people: WHAT THATS GAY
That's probably because of the boycott in the past.
I fully thought this was going to be about my Three Caballeros question ahah
Someone: (whispers) "gay"
Homophobe:"AAAAAASGGGGGFGGHGHHHHHHHHHGHHHHFADHHHHJJHBHHHGHBUHHUHHJHHBGHBHHGHHBUHHHHN"
I hate Disney. Their a monster of a company no matter how politically correct they get.
😶 sooo, you’re just gonna ignore all their work?
@@Nightther yes
@@Nightther there's a distinction between the workers and the company, and confusing the teo greatly benefits the company at the expense of the workers.
I actually didn’t know Tchaikovsky was gay before watching this video.
OH MY GOD I LOVE HOW YOU SING DAISY BELL AT THE END ITS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SONGS-
One of the episodes of muppet babies (2018-present) gonzo was wearing a dress, and so many people got super angry about it because it was perverted and inappropriate for the kids to learn about LGBTQIA at such a young age. I don’t get why people get angry over a boy wearing a girls dress. I think Gonzo looked super adorable in it! I even had to watch the episode, and I didn’t see what all the fuss was about.
If you’re interested, I did a whole video about exactly that a month ago!
@@DreamsoundsVideo Thank you very much! It gave me a lot more information.
"Produced by an organization that is probably one of the most pro-homosexual organizations in the country"
I nearly choked on my drink.
I don't understand why anyone would want a historically accurate Main Street USA. Who wants to go to a theme park where the streets are filled with horse excrement, like many cities were before cars became popular?
as a bisexual baptist christian from the south i apologize for the clowns on twitter yall-
@Lightskin Caveman why?
@Lightskin Caveman it doesn't work like that lmao
@Lightskin Caveman you can be both
History show community as been representing since ancient Rome. Do they think qu€€rness skipped a generation in the late 1800's, early 1900's?
as a queer New Englander who loves rugelach I feel seen
Why do they care so much? It's not like their favorite characters were changed, its just one dude in one house. This all feels very blown out of proportion. Just don't go there if it makes you uncomfortable and don't ruin it for those who like it.
Just so I'm clear the they im referring to is people against lgbt rep in disney.
It could be seen as people of the time living their life better than they did back then, making it more wholesome seeing their smiles.
Since the beginning, Disney has been about creating a fantasy where all your worries don't exist for a little while. This goes all the way back to their cartoons making people laugh during the great depression and WWII. This has evolved more recently into making their content relatable to everyone and making sure no one is excluded. If that includes ignoring unsavory aspects of history, then they will do that. The practice isn't perfect and comes with issues of idealization, but they are not claiming the real world doesn't exist and anyone that believes they are have been reading way too deep into things.
well kinda ww2 czcams.com/video/2KB_HqCbJk0/video.html lots of Propaganda against Japanese and Germany mainly Nazi
Fredrick the great of Prussia(1712 -1786) was gay it's known he had spent alone time with a male partner and was known as a "great flute player" although never seen playing the flute in public
Alot of LGBT had exist throughout history and even existed in the early 1900
did not expect to cry from this one
I wanted to thank you. I once was a very spiteful person, commented hate here, and now I am transitioning. you indirectly made my life so much more liveable. I cant thank you enough.
until they uncancel the owl house they are still not homophobic.
1:45 ah yes, Mickey Mouse’s longtime boyfriend… Mickey Mouse
Actually that’s his trans boyfriend minkey
@@razminfox1787 good for them
1:18 the song here (love like you, I think) reminded me of that one horrifying episode of adventure time with the elementals and i lost focus for the entire rest of the video
I am completely in love with your channel.
This is coming from a grey ace and I like that they are showing more real stories in the parks like this. Main Street is an idealistic American town and to me that means everyone is welcome to live there no matter their color, faith, creed or orientation.
im geniunely asking what is grey?
@@tornadodee148 it kind of means you are Ace but you don’t quite fit one definition. For me I’m 100% asexual but on the romantic side I’m grey since some days I feel heteroromantic but other days I feel homoromantic but then I have some days where I’m aromantic.
This can be different depending on the grey ace you ask.
@@douglasfreer lmao calling mood swings a sexuality. Sexuality is like Pokémon, there's a lot of them.
@@ikram1572 when did I call mood swings a sexuality?
For the algorithm!!!
The only re-writing of history taking place here is the fact that the portrait of Saul Fitz looks like a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.
Wait till they hear about the employees and costume actors....
Disney is too big for me to ever consider being a “fan”. They’re a corporation now, one of the biggest ones in the world, and no corporation really has the LGBTQIA+ community’s best interests at heart. Only money.
I think its funny that this guy has to create strawmen arguments in this video out of necessity since homophobic rhetoric often gets removed by site moderators.
This man's Partner: "I'm glad he can unwind by baking so I can unwind by eating"
Me: My mind must be a plumber, cause it sure is in the gutters a lot
This is the company that made the Mulan movie. How can you expect accuracy?
Didn't they cancel a show because the main character was gay?
Soft people man, i just want equaility
And now you understand Disney's Hypocrisy and exactly why the should get called out.
I only really have a problem when existing characters get changed for no good reason. For Into the Spider-Verse, they didn't make Peter Parker black, they created a new character, fit it in believably with the story, and it turned out great.
But they could have. I wouldn't have been mad if they *Did.* Because the movie was never supposed to be *The* Spider-Man movie, it was supposed to be A Spider-Man movie. The whole point was that it was different, so it makes sense.
And that's why I don't think Gay Bakers on Main Street isn't that big a deal. It was never supposed to be Main Street, it was supposed to be a *Version* of Main Street.
I don't think this really has to do with gay, black, trans, etc. characters though. I think it has more to do with the consolidation of the modern film industry, and the relative complacency of audiences allowing them to get away with a lack of new IPs. You can see this in the relentless number of reboots, from Star Wars to both the recent Ghostbusters films to things like Wreck it Ralph 2 and Incredibles 2, all the way to even the MCU. These aren't problematic because they have gay characters, in fact many of them are lacking in diversity. What ties them together is that they are unoriginal, and when people focus on gender swapping or making a character gay, it feels like they are focusing on the wrong part, that they're missing the bigger picture. And it feels as though a very valid and relevant concern is being hijacked by bad actors, or at the very least at the risk of being hijacked.
Great video, I found this in my recommendations, and I’m glad I found your channel. :)
I was a church-going Baptist when the boycott was announced. Even then I knew that at some point the boycott would be quietly forgotten!
“WAAA some massive corporation who has no religious views isn’t doing what my hateful book is saying! WAAAA”
Theres a real argument to be made about Disney rewriting history.
Specifically their own history of using... lets say less than ideal stereotypes in a number of their older movies
Because they sure dont seem eager to acknowledge that nowadays as they try to profile themselves as a nice, progressive company while simultaneously refusing to incorporate any values in their projects that cant be just as easily removed for the Chinese market.
I'm all about boycotting huge corporations but they're a little confused
It's Disneyland, it's not a museum and it's not colonial Williamsburg either. If it were either of those things I could understand their complaints, but it's not, it's literally the theme park version of history (even calling it that seems a bit a shakey since I don't think they ever pin down a year and say this is America during that time).
I don't reminder the Bible saying to be homophobic also it pushes forgiveness alot more
But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.”
Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”
Genesis 19:4-8
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 18:22
@@FourtyFifth I'm not reading all that I got things to do
@@williamswonderland3636 Exactly the response I expected from people like you, ignore the truth and make your own.
@@FourtyFifth no I just can't read and why would you asume anything about me
@@FourtyFifth ok I read it I don't quite remember the context for this I'll check my Bible later
It makes me laugh when people rant about how American popular culture promoted "traditional moral values" in the past. It NEVER did! Entertainers and artists were forced to mask their agendas back in the days of censorship, but most of them still cared a lot more about entertaining people than about imparting moral lessons that the audience could easily get elsewhere (parents, school, church, etc.) anyway. And this applied to Walt Disney himself. He created a ride that celebrated PIRATES, for crying out loud! Oh yes, pirates are definitely paragons of morality. They even sing a funny song about how evil they are!
To be fair, On the surface level it would seem they are glorifying pirates but the original pirates ride did show they had consequences for their actions. At the end of the ride while they're drunk off their asses after pilaging a town they get into a gun powder storage area and its implied they blow themselves up firing their guns in the room while celebrating. Another ride that shows there are consequences for your actions is mr toads wild ride, after driving recklessly around the countryside and commiting countless acts of attempted manslaughter with a vehicle and numerous property damage you ram into an oncoming train and end up in hell. Just thought id point these out cause its an interesting observation and that the creators of these rides did think about moral consequences.
@@KaiRubix I'll admit, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride did frighten me when I was a child. But I never felt I received any moral lesson from Pirates of the Caribbean. That's why I consider it no big deal that the pirates used to be chasing women. It's just something that pirates do. They weren't saying it was right and they weren't saying it was wrong; they were just saying it was funny.
The person asking about partner meaning business partner was most likely not from an english speaking country. And, like me, thought that the term partner was used both in private and business quite regularly. I saw partner and also thought, well could be business partner, because my mind went to "partner in a law firm" first. I keep missing important information for context too, like the "it's all hobby bakers" so I really relate to that person. Smashing into embarassing situations of "aah no, no that's not what that means" is an unfortunate hobby of mine. I don't believe they meant any harm and it was just a genuine question.
Not me getting a Disneyland ad-