Balatro Basics: Skip Tag Tier List (You're doing it wrong)
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2024
- ko-fi.com/drspectred
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Skips Tags are worth more than you think they are, and I still think you're skipping more than you should be. Hear me out.
(Version 1.0.0n) - Hry
whether you skip or fight, you are always reducing the number of blinds left by 1. you're not reducing the amount of time left in the universe by choosing a skip reward over a fight reward, its just comparing rewards to see what snowballs your run earlier.
When you skip, your Jokers stay the same; your deck stays the same. The number of shops between you and the next income Joker stays the same.
If you choose to play, you find that next income Joker one round sooner; you hold onto it for one round longer. Skipping removes your future best round from the end of the run.
It's easiest to understand looking at it from the extreme: If you take 100% skips, you get much fewer Jokers, income or otherwise.
What he's saying is that instead of getting a shop+money+potential for jokers, you get whatever the tag is. It's rarely worth it to leave so much on the table for a gamble/temporary effect/future effect. You're sacrificing an unknown but likely power spike (shops can be duds, but they usually have SOMETHING of value) for a known, smaller power spike.
Spending money to up your score is almost always worth more than whatever the tag is
sometimes that instant reward is better, you could already have all the jokers you need and maybe you just need that mega arcana pack to buff your cards and theres no guarantee you’ll get what you want in the shop, skipping gives guarantees, going for the shop is a gamble
@@Benjamin_Aveyard that is my most frequent reason to skip. I have a set of jokers that works and I am not sure what I could joker I could get that would tempt to be sell one of my current jokers. At this point I am either skipping or going to the shop for the vouchers and packs.
@@drspectred how about skipping the small blind since it gives no money at higher stakes?
im sorry professor im taking negative always anyway
Edit: new patch babyyyyy free negative 😃😃😃💵💵
Same here hahaha
Yup idc
Same but with the spectral. Too juicy
Always got to go for the negative
@@Hephaestus_Godyeah but the highroller dream
Counterpoint: Skips let me say I lost to the Ante 12 boss instead of the Small Blind
High antes be like ok nice job on that boss now surely you can beat this itty bitty small blind for weenie babies look its so small (it is 5 thousand times larger than the previous boss)
@@hotdogskid "It's just a small blind how bad could it be?"
The Small Blind: 2.900e13
@@Juniper_Rose to be fair, that would be childs play at that point theoretically.
The one and only true reason to skip
So the tier list is basically "never take any of them, but some you should never take even less"
This is a closer look into the F-tier.
Pretty much, as soon as I heard them say they don't ever skip, the entire video became background noise.
lmao, i'm going to take the Spectral packs anyway. same reason why you always take Wheel of Fortune, babyyyyy
this guy gets it
KEEP GAMBLING! YOU WILL WIN! 99% OF GAMBLERS QUIT RIGHT BEFORE WINNING BIG!
Pop-off chance, basically.
Although it's a bit interesting how the other pack tags give Megas but the Spectral just gives the basic.
there is always chance to make every build into 5 of the kind build with spectral pack. So in low (
you know im born to lose and gambling is for fulls but thats the way i like it baby
"I don't need a negative if the negative doesn't help me"
Counterpoint: It's how you gold stake a LOT of the cards in Balatro
Other counterpoint: the verdant leaf.
I think the uncommon and rare tags are trash 99% of the time I'd rather see another shop+ money you are bound to see them anyway.
@@theguythatasked6400counterpoint.
Verdant leaf is a luck issue
Counterpoint: They look cool
@@theguythatasked6400 thats the disable all cards until 1 joker Is sold?? Makes sense
The last 3 times I tried taking Negative tag, I hit exactly Popcorn, Seltzar and Ice Cream. I am not even joking. And in all of those runs, they were already kinda late (but not late enough to where these jokers would have survived until the final boss) so my run was already stable, and I lost 1 of them due to my Jokers just barely not being scaled enough. Amazing tag 10/10 would recommend.
So if you’re playing you’re slaying and if you’re skipping you’re tripping? Have I got that right
Time Value of Rounds, classic balaccounting principle
I'm sorry, professor, I am taking that negative tag when I have at least 10 dollars for the shop I am getting it on, I don't care about the grade, I just think it's fun
I didn’t get an email about the Tier List course Professor
It's ante 7. You have been building your entire deck to work with a single kind of synergy. Maybe you've replaced the majority of your cards with a single suit, maybe your jokers make face cards give crazy mult. Thing is, your boss this round debuffs the thing you've put all your resources into. I reroll the boss by skipping a blind every time there, the alternative is panic trying to change the course of your build and undo a lot of work or just giving up and starting a new run. He talks about how rare it is to use a skip, so taking that into mind I think it should be top tier beause of the ability to literally save your run in the eleventh hour
Very well said and represented 👍
@@benfahy2414 thank you!
I think the placement is fair. While I agree with you that it can literally save an entire run if it shows up at the right time, that would require it to show up during one of the two blinds just before your hard counter. If it shows up at any other point during the run it’s completely worthless.
That being said, I think orbital tag suffers the same problem of being usually trash but occasionally amazing, so the discrepancy between them seems unjust.
@@redinator5 It’s definitely not always there when you need it, but when it is it sure feels like it’s on a tier of its own. I felt okay with saying it’s at a higher tier because he was discussing how some higher ranking things rank that high in only the context that it shows up in the first ante, sometimes even only in the small blind. The reroll then has similar properties which were allowed in higher tiers, only it’s probably not going to be ante 1 that you’re looking for it in.
TLDR: almost everything on the list is rarely useful, and reroll has an amazing use when it is useful
@@O1O1OOO1tip I definitely see what you mean. If other tags can rank highly while still having restrictions behind why they’re good, then I can certainly see the justification behind giving boss reroll the same treatment.
I am probably crazy but I'd prefer Mega Arcana over Rare Joker tag. I have been burned too many times by worthless rares while at least Mega Arcana is at least some guaranteed value early.
Rares always fail me
This list is only really considering taking the skips in ante 1, maybe ante 2. A rare joker in ante 1 could provide massive value, possibly more than a mega arcana. After ante 1 you never want to skip at all really.
I'm glad the expiremental patch buffed joker tags, I always found them annoying since taking them would cost a lot sometimes, especially ones that made them special like holographic or negative
Oh I didn't realize this wasn't the beta. All the joker card upgrades would be like S tier and I was so confused
I almost always take negative tag because
A. 6 jokers.
B. I just think they look neat.
Agreed. I always take a negative tag if I have enough money and am not losing because it's fun to me. That doesn't chart well on a tier list (and doesn't need to be in the video) but it's a factor.
@@karlhenke91 I take it even if I AM losing
Finally, the correct opinion
@@Permafrost1tbh if you're losing but not the next one it might be interesting, because if you get a good one it might put you back on track, also if you're going for a long endless run you may need the extra jokers.
Great video, really enjoyed listening.
It also kinda highlighted a second player split to me. We already have 'player aiming to consistently beat Ante 8' vs 'player looking to go infinite' but there's a second I hadn't considered.
There's 'I'll take the safe play that beats this Ante every time and figure out what's next,' and there's 'I'm going to make the riskier play that might lose me Ante 3/4/5 now but if it pays off means I'm less likely to fall off in Ante 7/8.'
In both cases those players still don't normally skip; it just got me thinking about it.
Honestly, Voucher tag is probably worth it 90% of the time, if you have stabilized and are flush with cash. You get a single Voucher per ante by default, so seeing more of them just means that you can fish for the strongest vouchers, which can make or break a run. Extra hand size, better shops, better packs are all worth the skip imo. Negative is one I'll take if I already have the full set of jokers, and can afford the skip. Free shops and economy tags are usually worth it, since you get a lot more value out of them than just playing the blind, unless you specifically need scaling (bus, constellation) and you can't afford losing out on a shop. The rest of them I rarely touch, or if I'm on a higher stake and need some early game help (mega buffoon pack is one big help early game)
agree, i am always considering a voucher skip if i havent seen the re-roll voucher yet and rounds are getting on- if im using a deck that'll get countered by a boss.
I would rate negative tag a tier higher for temperance alone, but also its nice not having to see that joker in the shop anymore, even though thats a very small benefit.
Stencil
@@luisothaviodorodorodorodor3564 stencil doesnt have any effect with negatives
@@kiyokiyokoit lets you have one more flat mult with having the exact same value in stencil so thats wrong. Turns your 3/5 with a 3x stencil into a 4/6 with a 3x stencil. Basically, you're wrong.
@@shybandit521 you are literally confirming yourself that stencil remains unchanged regardless of the negative. I'm sure if you think about it a bit more you'll figure it out
@@kiyokiyoko okay you get one more joker and stencil doesn't get *worse* so it has synergy with stencil? Stencil is such a volatile card you either have synergy or anti-synergy there's nothing in between. A +15 mult before stencils x3 is better than no +15 mult before the x3, that's just a fact. That's synergy. If it was +15 mult that decreased Stencil to x2, that's anti-synergy.
I have loyalty to negative tag, I've had one run where I've gotten negative showman and another with negative blueprint. But overall I agree with this list.
So how does this all change with the new update where the skip jokers are free?
I got ratioed in an Northernlion video bcs i said you shouldn’t always skip first small blind (he skipped for a voucher he couldn’t afford) and they heavily underestimate the first shop value even if you can just get a common joker
The Egg's brain is scrambled.
Type A chatter detected
You should always skip first small blind (if not on white stake). If the skip tag is useless just reroll and then skip. You heavily overestimate the first shop value.
@@user-ob1oc4sk7w Maybe if you enjoy spamming r for a minute straight at the start of each run. I'd much rather just play at least the first couple rounds to see if there's anything worthwhile since most of the time a good shop is worth at least as much as a good tag and sometimes it's worth much more.
Ofc course you can reroll for a voucher that is worth but i mean in general most vouchers are not worth it@@user-ob1oc4sk7w
Thank you for confirming so many of my thoughts. Good video. 10/10
hi malf
Gold Stake is SO hard, bro
@@drspectredIt's crushing my will in ways I thought not possible, but only with Black Deck!
@@michaelalfox For me, Plasma was the hardest, followed by Black Deck. At least with Plasma you have an easy out: rerolling for Chips Jokers.
@@drspectredyeah, I think I just had a great string of luck with plasma as I was able to get Stuntman early on, including in gold stake. Black deck I've finally started to play smart and we're hitting ante 7 regularly now.
guys im famous its my template
(yeah i just copied it from the wiki. there were other random errors that i caught for other templates, but i didn't see the voucher goof lol)
Sorry prof still taking negative
The only correct answer.
Tags are always situational
If you have 4-5 scoring jokers and 0 money - you probably wanna take the money tag to kikstart your economy
You often wanna take negative tag(if you're no dying), because extra joker is usually good. Because most of your score comes from jokers - you want as many of them as possible. Even if they are trash - you can counter 2 Ante 8 Boss Blind (Verdant Leaf and Crimson Heart)
In Ante 1 you might wanna take Mega Buffoon Pack to have at least 1 scoring joker. Especially if you don't get money from Small Blind due to the stake. Having any scoring joker makes it easier to beat early Blinds, allowing you to build economy/roll for good jokers
this is something that i've been waiting for! can't wait to watch it
Would love to see a joker breedability tier list, I think that would be very important knowledge to share with the community :)
Great video! I definitely learned some things and have to reevaluate how i think about many of these tags (and how often i skip)!
I respect your opinion but unfortunately am looking for the big banana so am gonna use one of my rerolls and discard this opinion.
i would say boss rerroll is pretty good for the violet vessel and crimson heart bosses on ante 8 gold stake, ass they can be run ending.
I usually skip the first small blind because even if i one shot it I usually don't have enough money to buy anything.
i think something thats worth considering in terms of ante 1 strategy is whether we're trying to maximize our win percentage, or maximize our number of wins. I think for most people, its actually the latter, especially if you're trying to climb the stakes. that makes the risk reward calculation a lot different, where now the cost of losing on the first boss is pretty negligible, and we can take big risks, like trying to get a polychrome in the post boss shop. not necessarily something that would change this tier list, just might be worth thinking about
Aren't they both the same thing? If you win a higher percentage you are maximizing (getting) more wins. Patience and making smart plays are key virtues in Balatro.
Win % and games won aren’t the same. Win % is how many games started end in a win, but games won is how many wins. Basically, if you take risks at the start, but reset if you get bad luck, you up the number of winning games you play because you don’t play in unideal conditions. But restarting tanks your win percentage because each restart counts as a loss.
You also have to factor in how much your time is worth, not everyone has enough time to meticulously plan out every factor of a run that doesn't get past ante 2 because of bad rng so taking high risk high rewards that make the run go faster, regardless of if you get the reward or not, and I don't mean skip every round because then it takes less time per run, I mean if a choice is risky and might completely end your run, but if it succeeds, will make it much stronger, would be more highly valued, an example is the double investment tag in ante 1, you just started so you don't lose much if you fail, but if you pull it off, it kickstarts the run
Negative is the best because it delivers the highest dopamine level and the coolest looking cards
Just read the new patch notes, some tags are getting big buffs: when choosing a joker tag the buffed joker costs $0
any plans on updating this type of content to address balance changes? a lot of the tags have been buffed for instance the investment tag now gives 25 after beating boss
Your 90 second video genuinely helped. Thanks to your help I hit e37 on an unseeded run today. Took me 3 hours, a VERY poorly time hieroglyph and 2 idols hitting the one none K◇ card in my deck to finish it.
The streets will remember you my dude.
I respect the amount of thought and work you put into making these. I also will never once watch one of these front to back without skipping.
I guess I wish there was some way to sort the huge amount of information in each video, so I could more effectively learn it in relevant segments.
I think using time stamps would be huge and It shouldn't be too hard to add. It would cost only you adding notes while editing the video, and then the thousands of people watching would benefit.
This was mind opening - thank you Professor
Can't you get riff raff in ante 1? I feel like that's happened to me a lot. Honestly Riff Raff kind of loves me, I've gotten that one a lot
Negative with 20 double tags is always a winner
10k students! Congrats :D
Always taking negative. It's too much fun and it also helps with verdant leaf even if you don't need it.
How much does the value of a skip go up if you are running cards like Popcorn or Ice Cream? I guess it's still better to see more shops to look for long-term replacements most of the time?
I understand the conventional wisdom that the early polychrome is kind of a bait, but I just get dollar sign eyes every time and then die immediately on the ante 2 big blind lol
All skips all day, you are doing it wrong. Throwback slaps hard.
Hey now, double tagged economy got me $80 in ante 3. Sometimes skips are worth it!
But wow I'm gonna seek out d6 now, that's so strong
It’d be interesting to see a revisit after the latest update
This comment section is a lesson on delayed vs instant gratification
thank you for the lecture prof.
boss retool is a tier cuz in the situation where you would want to take it, it is absolutely crucial. if you're all in on onyx agate and your deck is all clubs and the boss is the club, there is no way to play around that without a legendary joker or giving up a joker slot to the one that disables the boss blind. this matters especially when you've rebuilt your deck to mostly a single suit so you don't have any chance to pivot to a different build.
arcana pack has a special place in my heart and my tier list for the combo you pointed out.
It's just funny to find the seeds where your first skip is arcana and you get jusgement and fool and then you start with something like eternal holographic blueprint and madness.
Of course, it rarely (read never) ever happens, but I skip ante1 small blind for it 100% of the time and hurt myself proudly
Love the content, professor, I may be wrong but I think opportunity cost is a more appropriate term in this video then value proposition.
nah, you're right
I find it interesting that polychrome and negative are super amazing - but only on an otherwise good joker. So those tags become not so great. How dynamic do you think the tag values are? For example, if you have Overstock, the D6 and coupon tags are better, but so is the shop you are skipping.
Fantastic vid!
How often does doubling money actually raise your anti 8 win rate more than foil/holo/coupon guaranteeing you get past anti 1? In your experience roughly how often is it win-more and how often was the money vital?
Prof, does this mean throwback is a below average joker? Does having throwback or something else in your build change the tiers?
Throwback is pretty bad, yeah. It doesn't change the relative ranking of the Tags (the better ones are still going to be better, and the worse ones are still going to be worse). In theory, it makes skipping more worth it because you get a second benefit. In practice, you'll get it up to x1.75 by skipping three times, and then see something better in the shop.
Do you think the uncommon and rare tags should make the joker itself discounted to mitigate the loss of the skip?
Rerolls starting at 0 lets you see 8 sets of cards (7 rerolls) for $21. Doing the hand lets you see 6 hands for $22 (2 rerolls twice) looking at 2 extra packs and getting value playing the hand. $36 to see 8 sets. So at best it's worth about $15, minus a pack reroll. That doesn't ever seem like a better value than playing the hand.
By logic a Double tag can be applied to a top tier tag, making it twice as good as a top tier tag. I always get it If I know I can survive another round without improvements because I know I will get a double improvement later in the run.
will this be on the final?
Your point around skipping removing your theoretical best round from the end of your run is true, but then it also depends on your goals.
If you’re a newer player and just trying to get a win to get an unlock, and you’re on ante 7 or 8 and struggling, but a guaranteed polychrome would help push your score into the range of beating the boss, then I’d say go for it.
But if you’ve got most of the unlocks and are just going for a high score then it’s obviously different and your point is totally valid.
Great video as always. Although my only objection to the economy tag would be that you always refer to it as $40 but in 90% of my games, it ends up being $25. Since that's the natural cut off point for the interest, I usually spend down to that amount before exiting the shop. Although I don't mind it being the highest rated tag, it's still probably better the other ones even at $25.
Doesn't the investment tag ($15 after boss blind) provide a similar benefit of getting your economy up and running earlier in the run when taken in ante 1? Given it's not as helpful as the coupon or probably the foil/holo jokers, since you don't get that money until ante 2, it still seems like a decent way to kickstart your economy, especially on higher stakes.
I'm confused because some of these are ranked as if it's late run, but some are ranked as if it's early run. There needs to be two tierlists. One for early, one for late.
Profesor, is clickbait allowed? Since when free reroll is graduating?
I've been trying to complete golden on Checkered Deck so i'm probably heavily biased to that deck, but I love skipping. The first 2 ante's if I see anything of value at all. A high flush is 320ish and easy to get, so i don't need anything until Ante 3 I think? I'll only play in Ante1 if large blind has a bad skip, or in Ante 2 if I have obtained scaling somehow / bad skips. If the boss blind is can't play cards already played this Ante, that's an auto 2 skip for me typically as well. Current patch a lot of these seem better than when this video what made though.
What do you think of the new Investment tag? From 15 -> 25
One of my first wins I misunderstood obelisk and thought I could alternate between 2 hands. My highest play count was 7 and I realized mistake at Ante 5 and was quickly running out of hands. I skipped every single thing I could until the boss and managed to win 🤣
wait i may be stupid but if you reroll the shop after taking negative joker doesn't the next joker in first place also become negative?
ive had that happen to me in a recent run and the next one was good so i took it. the tag definitely disappeares AFTER you leave the shop. imma have to tesz that
The tag changes the first base edition (non negative/foil/holographic/polychrome) joker you see into a negative, so what probably happened was you got extremely luck in getting a negative joker, then rerolled and the negative tag only activated the second time because the joker it tried to convert already had an edition so it didn't do anything until the reroll
The standard has been set.
I wish northernlion could see this video
if its 2 50 dollar rewards in ante 1, im running it. waste 60 seconds for a chance of a breezy run is 100% worth it, especially considering how many first shops i've seen with 2 tarots or a rare that i cant buy
Will this be on the test?
putting negative so low is crazy
Balatro Basics is amazing!
Now you need to redo the video because a free joker tag is a free joker tag, no buts.
There was an updated video, yeah.
This video is more like the content I want from you, but the real thing I think would be most helpful is a Joker tier list video. I've seen multiple from other Balatro-tubers recommended to me or showing up when I search for Balatro videos, but I don't really want to watch any of them because I wouldn't trust them. I'd trust a Joker tier list from you since you're a math professor and clearly are the most prolific in your achievements with this game. And I don't even want this for the gimmicky or tendy nature of it like other people might. I want this simply because I've been feeling so lost when it comes to the jokers. I especially would like a joker tier list since your presentation with the college references is fun (I wonder what Jokers would get "Expelled"). Also wouldn't mind some other cards focused on like a Voucher or Spectral card list.
Me who never skips: the tags do things?
user has never played red chip
@@makeshiftsavantabsolutely still not worth skipping small blind even on red stake or higher. You get money from interest and hands, and yes all the skip tags are really that bad.
@@sirthursday6159 I mean the 15$ boss bonus is way better than playing round 1.....unless you are worried so much about passing the 1st boss which is incredibly low chance that you don't. Coupon is way better than playing in ante 1 also you will get much more value from them then barely getting a couple jokers early most of the time.
I feel like polychrome is much more worth it at the start now that it’s free
counterpoint: I got negative hallucination once when using negative tag, checkmate
There is something you did not go over much. Jokers that last a limited amount of time like bean. or perhaps if you have a good ancient set and want to use it on the boss. I actually did run into a situation for that where I was planning on rolling ancient to overpower the final boss. However I ended up losing that run because of outright horrible draws on an encounter before final boss. (I think it was not drawing face cards for photograph.)
Balatro everyday, but 3 times in a day? SHEEESH #lethimcook
Negative should be higher because there is no good way to get negative jokers, and jokers that don't take space are 99% worth it to take
I was doing it wrong, but yeah the longer I play the more rarely I skip... Seeing one more shop and one more round is usually so much more valuable at high level of play than any of those tags, except for some very specific situations
When there are multiple hour-long tierlist videos of different elements of the game you know you have a banger game in your hands.
the beta patch is going to completely change this tier list, might have to redo this in a week or two haha
Another comment said you should always sell your hex card if your are playing ghost deck after the first round you will have 13$.is this worth selling?
Always is a strong word, but hex card is ass, and so yes I usually do sell it
Hello Mr. University!
I almost always skip round 1 if I’m doing a higher ante, I’ll usually reroll seeds till I get something I like.
would love something like this for vouchers
Skipping class for +4 hours of sleep
Joker tier-list next?👀👀👀👀👀👀
u can never have too much flat mult early
I still remember your negative tag run where you ended up getting like 20 tags and all but like 3 were total trash. Someone did a modded run where one of the mechanics glitched and caused infinite negative cards to be printed and basically it just ended up making a bunch of useless junk until it depleted the common pool then it was just making a bunch of negative Jimbos. Point is, negative tag sucks.
I think 15 dollars is the best ante 1 joker. On mid stakes there are sooo many times you get to a shop and there is just nothing you can do cuz you have no cash, in which case the shop was worthless
sorry i'm late professor specter!
Taking negatives to get temperance value 🤙
Negative tag go brrr
Throwback Joker:😎
I wonder how this changes with the new update incoming, with free negative, polychrome, etc. Jokers.
Meaning it's not ALWAYS A loss of money. A Rare Joker for FREE can be a game changer. Would that mean weighing it differently? Since you'd normally lose out on, say, 12 dollars, plus another 8 for a Rare Joker...now it's free. It still depends on the Joker (A Seance is not going to be a run definer in a 4-of-a-King build) but it feels like it's definitely worth more, since you're not sacrificing ACTUAL money AND potential money anymore.