Silent Hill 2 & Critical Immunity
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- you cannot critique sh2. or could you? nah you can't. but will i? nah i wont. but i might critique how people tend to critique sh2 tho. or critique how people praise it. or praise how one could critique it. or praise how i praise it. also mirrors edge.
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![So I've Been Playing: SILENT HILL DOWNPOUR [ Review PS3 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9JJCtdntLLg/mqdefault.jpg)
![So I've Been Playing: SILENT HILL DOWNPOUR [ Review PS3 ]](/img/tr.png)
So what you're saying is that dark souls is actually the silent hill 2 of cuphead platformers and other digital media, and that Digimon World 3 is the true 4 Fast 4 Furious of media.
Draco Mundo I don’t fully comprehend this, but I’m going to give you a like.
But actually it was Ocelot the *whole time.*
@@GuyOnAChair Who was really Dr. Wiley.
@@initial_C And then Eyore-
Digimon World 3 was the tits
Too bad NA players got fucked over with endgame content
"Giving you AMPOULE time"
It's quips like this why I trust your opinion 100%.
it took so long to find an exact bit of footage where i picked one up as well. i guess it was worth it for someone lol
this was such an incredible gag, for real
@@helloofthebeach Calm down, it wasn't THAT clever. Jesus.
@@thorhighheels Thorhighheels with the BARZ. Bitch I'm compressed! Got a low bit rate but I'm not depressed!
Jeremy blumstein said a lot of the lines didn't really satisfy him, but some of the actress simply couldn't pull it off and they had limited the time and budget for it. so pretty much the belief that every single line was meticulously done is a big fat lie.
It's basically that "great men" mindset. We like to think significant things are done by significant individuals with an almost divine sense of deliberation. Instead, making something that requires a bunch of people is often as chaotic as life itself. We often find meaning in things that are arbitrary and incidental, but that in itself is why the subjectivity of art is great :)
Yeah. The only times that the “somewhat off”, stilted, “uncanny valley” dialogue is intentional is with Maria in SH2, Vincent in SH3, and Walter in SH4. Maybe Sunderland (James’ dad) from SH4 too, considering how Eileen reacts to the weird shit he says sometimes
I mean, I'll believe that all the dialog writing is meticulous and purposeful, but some of the performances are obviously some early 2000's Japanese devs trying to direct good English cheese. It ain't perfect, but it also ain't 'Radio. What's going on with that radio?'
Not necessarily. Some of the actors (the way it's written, I can't tell if you meant to say only the actresses, or the actors as whole) not being able to "pull it off" isn't the same as the dialogue not being "meticulously done", or that they didn't achieve what they set out to do.
@@SOBEKCrocodileGod was this actually confirmed in any way? I mean, based on actual evidence and themes presented on the game itself, not to mention interviews, I think it's hard to deny that at least most of the dialogue in SH2 was done as intended.
Lmfao, Angela's anime boyish "Right?!" has always killed me. So dorky, and during such a powerful scene. Love/d you, Team Silent.
I used to fantasize about Angela when I was younger . Thought I’d share that with you .
@@andrewcruz1931 what kinds of fantasies? 🤔🤔🤔
@@moonshoes8931 *cue opening scene of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion*
@@andrewcruz1931 "DADDY NO!"
@@andrewcruz1931 It'll probably be like in Blue Velvet where she wants you to hit her.
I like the dialogue, just because the clunky nature of it makes it feel like an earnest little student film. Where the director doesn't really know how to work with actors, and the actors are just broke people off the streets, who just saw a flyer that offered pizza for shooting some scenes. Except Mary/Maria who was a stage kid thru college and is trying to get into bigger leagues and is just flexing on everyone else on cast.
idk where I was going with this.
Isnt this just tacitly admitting that its bad VA? Not bad writing, but VA in specific. Endearing=/=good.
@Lain Why does something being intentional make it good? If I made a movie about a guy shitting on a toilet with the goal of it being boring, short, and all around having nothing to say, and I achieve that goal, can I suddenly not criticize the work?
A method in art achieving its purpose does not make it good.
@aa aaa I think it's more in the sense that the actors are clearly trying even if they clearly don't have much in the way of professional experience. They might be awkward, but the effort makes the weird performances memorable.
@@chrisossu2070 I agree with everything you said but being more memorable does not make it good.
fucking nailed it.
You really start to appreciate these voices once you hear v-a from SH2 remaster, THESE were fucking bad and it's even funnier when you realize they were made by professional voice actors. I'm mean yeah, oryginal voices sometimes sounded amateurishly BUT actors were perfectly matched with characters and sounded a lot more emotionally and involved with dialogues.
“Bro how can you say that 3 or 4 is your favorite, Silent Hill 2 has the most essays and good reviews!!!!”
I just beat the game, and it is a damn masterpiece, but people act like no one should DARE prefer another game in the series over it or think it’s not as scary as some of the others.
Sure, Pyramid Head is scary, but most encounters with him have him walking away after a bit or well, just straight up killing himself. I think the ghosts from Silent Hill 4 are much more terrifying.
And in terms of general scariness, Silent Hill 3 exceeds it. Most of the average enemies in SH2, can have the shit beaten out of them very easily with little-to-no resistance. In SH3, the basic enemies at the beginning of the game are already a big threat and can kill you very easily.
This. The series progressively got scarier to the point where 4 was peak depression-and-psychosis. 4 was always my favorite for being so unnerving I loathed starting it up, but when I was in it, I was in it and wanted to see it through to the end.
Well Said. SH2 is a masterpiece on a literary works level no doubt, but as a game it falls short of SH1,3 and 4. (in that order)
@@mathieuwiersma1660 That's a cool way to say it. SH2 has a great and intriguing plot, but the combat is trash, even SH1 has a more responsive one, the environments feel kinda bland and boring, where's my other world? Why put an escort section where I can accidentally kill Maria? Also the boat part was annoying.
@@iwantasandwich9606 Yes i totally agree. I didn't realise this but indeed, where's the other world ? That is one of the defining aspects of SH. I don't want to bash SH2 but given the otherworld is missing it makes this game the odd man out moreso then SH4 imo.
@@mathieuwiersma1660 The "otherworld" isn't missing from SH2, it just takes an appearance that reflect James' subconscious (and ocasionally, also Eddie and Angela). I also don't necessarily agree about the rest of the series being better games, while SH2 has the better "writing", considering that when talking about games like the ones in the Silent Hill series, writing and gameplay aren't really as detached from each other as the average game.
5:16 You say how it's ridiculous that they are shooting each other in the face but in reality it is a metaphorical representation of the tug-of-war happening within James' subconscious of his guilt vs repression. You can see each one go backwards as they're shot in a tug-of-war like manner.
*Takes off nerd glasses*
In all seriousness, this was a great and well-written analysis and you've earned yourself a subscriber.
Oh c'mon everything has a double meaning for Silent Hill fans haha, pure absurdity..
When we decide something is above criticism, we turn it into more of an idea than something that exists in reality, which makes it harder to actually appreciate the good things. Being able to say "the combat is shit" makes "most of the writing is really fucking good" way more meaningful.
0:40 All of the acting in Silent Hill 2 is completely believable to me. I grew up around a lot of weirdos and broken people (and I'm including myself in these descriptions) so none of it really seems too far outside of behavior you'd see in the real world.
It is like we think all people speaks properly and in a way that conveys to theatres' or cinema style. Not everyone is Shakespeare or, I don't know, Calderón de la Barca at spontaneous talking, and that implies people could stutter, fail and construct the phrases in an unorganised manner or wrong fashion. Maybe spectacle made us have a distorted version of our reality in which representation conveys the normality of our view of world.
@@vanstanian I can only speak from my own experience but I have trouble talking to people I don't know very well in person. This often leads me to getting nervous and over annunciating. This causes me to get even more nervous and make even more vocal mistakes. I have no trouble believing that a group of emotionally damaged people would communicate this way especially in the odd circumstances they found themselves in.
@@Brandon_Powell Similar to me. You are not alone in this.
Mouth words fail me a lot too.
@@vanstanian Your last sentence was a word salad..
The dialogue being weird i think it is positive, because for me the game has a dream vibe. My dreams always have these weird/out of place conversations, so it kind of fits, i dunno man.
Lain
Also pretty much every character drawn to Silent Hill in this game (except the little girl, I guess) is at least a little insane.
I played silent 2 during my post-breakup depression from a 6 year relationship, that gave the game a total new layer for me.
TheCivildecay my post-breakup game was Nier Automata that game changed my perspective on life.
Mine was, thankfully, Mass Effect. That only soothed me.
So wait youre sayin youd pillowcase ur ex?
@@hauntedheathen2732 That'd just be foreplay, I'm sure.
@@convolution223 foreplay with a corpse?
"I've got to like this game, all the cool kids like it. God I'm cool, look at my cool taste."
That's sort of what a lot of the mentality boils down to I feel. I can guarantee most of the parroting types haven't even played the games to begin with, at most maybe watched an LP and thought that is identical to playing through it. It's pretty ironic how the mindset then creates a counterculture of the opposite extreme, "EVERYONE LIKES THIS GAME SO I MUST HATE IT WHOLE HEARTEDLY". Having a nuanced perspective on things doesn't seem to be very cool among the cool kids.
It's like that with literally everything in the world these days unfortunately. Nuance is pretty much dead in the minds of people. Just look at the state of politics, there's no nuance anymore about anything, jsst hot takes. Social media plays a huge role in this, it divide us more than it unite (sorry if my english is not perfect, it's not my first language).
See I'm in a bit of a personal dilemma with this. Because I WANT to like this game, but I haven't personally played it. The only instance I have is that I have the HD collection, and I remember grabbing it before finding out from the internet that it's a hot mess and having to find out the hard way, so I'm sitting here wondering if I'm even going to get the full experience unless I can find the original copy.
@@abrahamrendon6787 Psst. Pirate the PC special edition for free; you can find it with a google search. Without Konami doing a decent re-release, buying a physical copy of the original has become ridiculously expensive. That and fuck Konami.
@@abrahamrendon6787 just download the pc version and make sure to just activate one core to run the game.
@@abrahamrendon6787 Avoid the ports like a plague and stick to original PS2 version (or Greatest Hits), or you can emulate it on PCSX2. It's identical to PS2 but you can change the native resolution to higher ones, and it has widescreen patches built-in. Really easy to configure.
Man, I love the fact that your RE4 merchant and Ocelot sound exactly the same. XD
Bed of Chaos from Dark Souls 1 doesn't function as intended at all. It's a poorly designed mess where none of its aspects really work together all that well.
Ancient Dragon from Dark Souls 2 meanwhile functions as it was clearly intended to function. It has no real collision issues or weird design decisions that would make its attacks and environment overlap in some odd ways. And yet the boss is still absolute shit.
So something working more or less according to the original intent is more of just an observation. It all boils down to the context itself. Like Smash Bros Melee's depth comes from completely unintentional things, and David Cage's games come off as hilarious despite that never being the intent.
Ancient Dragon is one of my favorite bosses from Dark Souls 2. Huge beast, grander in power, optional, not very difficult and every death is your own fault as a player. I love it.
@Lain Oh? I genuinely did not know this. Thanks for clearing that up.
@Lain Hate to be "that guy" but can you provide any sources? Genuinely curious as I, like many others heard Brawl was slower and had bad mechanics like the random trip thing because Melee was how it was instead of a party game through and through.
@Lain To add on, saying Melee's depth is "unintentional" is misleading because it largely comes from intended mechanics being used in unexpected ways, same as all the Smash games and most fighting games in general. DACUS from Brawl is a better example of an unintended advanced technique because it was clearly a glitch and patched out of future games.
@@MugenHeadNinja I don't think CZcams allows direct links but Source Gaming has lots of translated columns and interviews from director Masahiro Sakurai and as far as I know this info is basically correct.
Sakurai and his team included lots of hidden techniques in 64 and Melee because he was a huge fighting game fan, but this stuff was removed from Brawl because he started the Smash series as a way to bring the magic of fighting games to gamers of all skill levels and he didn't think he was accomplishing his mission. He was also terribly worried about new fans and children playing a Melee-like fighting game with a sideways Wii remote, which is realistically how a lot of people played Brawl.
He later realized he went too far with Brawl and has been slowly bringing the series back to where it was. Smash 4 removed a lot of Brawl's bullshit for a more consistent experience and it also changed some hidden mechanics like move staling to be how they were in Melee. Ultimate went further and brought back nerfed versions of the dash dancing and wave dashing techniques, in addition to giving the entire cast huge buffs to their movement and attack speed.
This is all a very deliberate attempt to return to the series' roots and increase the game speed with every iteration -- or, as Sakurai calls it, the "tempo." In fact, he's even said Smash 4 could've been faster, but he was concerned about 3DS players and people still using sideways Wii remotes. As a fan of Ultimate and the series' return to form in general, I think the main takeaway is that Nintendo's next console needs to have a good controller so Smash can keep getting better :P
I actually just replayed Silent Hill 2 on Halloween. I need to go back through the rest of the series.
I've done the same. But played 2, origins and downpour as they're the only ones I have available
@@sqliffty5ive Oh don't worry about it. I'm sure Konami will be making HD versions of all of the games readily available on all systems any day now... Any day now...
@@Brandon_Powell If by 'systems' you mean slot machines, then yes.
My joke just made me sad.
@@HanMasho I think the sadness would still be there even if you hadn't made the joke.
@@Brandon_Powell You're not wrong.
I really love Silent Hill 2, but I also enjoy critiquing it. Silent Hill 3 is my favorite in the series, and I love that people are finally coming out of the woodwork to praise the game fairly instead of constantly comparing it to Silent Hill 2.
i like silent hill 3 for having the best technical polishing and offering that team silent dampness for the last time, but its story was kinda doodoo, likely bc the original story was scrapped, but even the original story didn’t sound like too good of a concept.
edit: to elaborate, i mean that the retreading was done poorly off the first game’s, and was written off as if they had no respect for their first project, likely because konami wanted them to go back to the occult stuff for the fans at the time.
I've never had a problem with people critiquing things I enjoy. A lot of it for me is the intent of the critique. Like can you actually think of a way to improve the work you're critiquing or are you just trying to seem smarter than the thing people like? You mention intent. Would any change suggested go against that intent? I think a lot of people have trouble squaring what they want with what a work wants to do. Whether you like what it wanted to do is ultimately personal preference.
This is what I keep coming back to when people talk about the combat in old survival horror games. Like sure, maybe you've had more fun fighting stuff in other games but IDK that doesn't seem like the point here. Like what do you want from the combat? Sick juggles? Headshots? Dodge rolls? Roundhouse kicks? They never have an answer that isn't "Make it more like this other action game" and I'm not about it. I'll take the clunky combat because IMO it adds to the atmosphere more than some SSSomkin' Sick Style would.
And the VA is whatever. I really feel like that's personal preference. Can you get drawn in by it's weird qualities or not? If not that's cool but it never bothered me and I don't think it's hand waving criticism to say it's preference and move on. I get the vibe that some people get really upset if they can't get you on the voice acting being "oBJeCtiVEly BAd". Like chill, guy. These people are weird and the story got told and the performances touched me. It didn't work for you? Okay. I Didn't have that problem.
Mostly I'm just sick of all these refrigerator temp takes of "Thing You Like is BAD and Here's WHY..." by Internet Fucko. It's so tired. I don't like Star Wars movies or Zelda games but I don't go around trying to convince everyone that I'm some kind of secret genius cause they didn't appeal to me (something Twin Perfect themselves are guilty of). Over defensive fans of stuff can be obnoxious but I feel like a lot of the people that make that complaint can get pretty upset that their opinion was disagreed with. And it would be pretty silly if someone thought their own critiques were themselves immune to critique. It's really not that hard to accept that people don't agree with you whether you liked something or not.
I agree. I watched the video hoping for something substantial. It was the same regurgitated opinions against the game you would expect to hear from any edge lord fucko. Nothing new brought to the table. Nothing original to say.
@@dublejump Thor ain't no fucko. He was just trying to show where those other people were coming from.
Showing where others are coming from by addressing them as fucko? I was just showing where I was coming from by addressing him as fucko. Be him fucko or not.
Just because combat isn’t janky doesn’t mean that something instantly becomes an action game and drains all of the horror
@@SOBEKCrocodileGod RE4 is a fairly good example of how to have a combat system that isn't total jank whilst also retaining a lot of the horror aspects, especially in the earlier segments of the game.
I almost quit sh2 my first time playing because of how well hidden some of the puzzle items are to find. The puzzles themselves were actually pretty easy for me most the time (on normal, that is), but i had to look up guides once or twice to find that one item i was overlooking while scouring ever pixel of the map.
After i finished it i realized how much i enjoyed it despite all the frustration, but nah this game is FAR from perfect from a gameplay perspective. I still love it and consider it a masterpiece but even the mona lisa has a few details that look awkward and aee objectively bad
People trying to find symbolism in every little aspect of this game reminds me of all the shitty symbolism projects I had in English.
"The voice acting being bad was intentional and that makes it really good. The bad dialogue symbolizes blah blah blah and blah blah blah."
It's not really a problem I have with the game, just with the people who constantly overanalyze stuff and defend it because of symbolism which might not even be there. No hate to those people but that stuff drives me crazy.
Edit: Also, I can relate. I hate English class.
When I was before fighting Eddie I couldn't stop laughing at the strangeness of James' voice, and I felt a bit guitly. But I see im not the only one...
Off topi but your videos aesthetic are really inspiring, good stuff man, love ya
That's why I'm subbed, like I owned a PSX but wasn't even really into the type of games he covers, but his style is really great
As much as I agree with this commentary, in a way I really like the way people claim that certain elements of the game would be intentional and that everything ties in to the overall narrative, because of the power of interpretation. If you look at a painting, you might never know which part of your interpretation of it was or wasn't intentional, even if you'd just interpret a mistaken brush-stroke as a symbolic expression. Of course there's a difference between making interpretations in things like that, and just circle-jerking a game so much that every single technical aspect is received as an ingenious implementation. Still, I love just immersing myself into SH2 so much that I accept every single thing about it as intentional.
I found your channel last week and subscribed, seriously love your videos dude!! Really enjoyed this one as well.
TY for the nostalgic ff10 music, hngh, needed that.
ThorHighHeels is truly the most prolific critique-er of the medium
Concerning the voice acting, Honestly i talk to people who speak like silent hill characters pretty frequently, and i can talk that way myself often enough - it's fairly common when folks are troubled in some way. Cause of that i find myself more immersed and the characters' plights feel just a bit more real, so intentional or not i think something true to life was captured and the game is better for it.
I've even see people go so far as to claim that Silent Hill is not a game where you shoot monsters or hit them with rusty pipes, and then admit that the game has that stuff, but it should not be talked about in favour of atmosphere and deeper meaning.
This distorted view of what the game is vs. what they want it be seen as might explain why Silent Hill fans are unpleasible when it comes to sequels.
Fun bit of trivia. Mary's outfit might not have been some deep design choice, but a Con Air reference.
I disagree with that being a distorted view, or at least how I understand your position, that's just kind of how art works, what's there beyond the sum of it's parts can be what makes it beautiful, imagine a masterpiece painting that sure, is a painting "of" something but where the interpretation of the value and intention is not whats actually in the painting but through for instance symbolism, I'd say it's fair that you cannot judge it out of what it's actually a drawing of. Also just a little disclaimer I am by no means a Silent Hill fanboy and I would say my views on the games are nuanced and fair, it's just a bit of discourse.
@@nakanoyuko A game can be more than the sum of parts. If you want to say "There's more to Silent Hill than shooting monsters.", that's perfectly reasonable.
Where I object is when fans try to say "You never shoot monsters in Silent Hill.", which is false.
Some fans say "You do shoot monsters in Silent Hill, but don't talk about that because saying so reflects poorly on the game.", I object to that as well. I don't think a game having action makes it somehow low-brow or less-artsy. And I think trying to deliberately trying to ignore or downplay parts of the game so you can present it as something it's not is similar to lying by omission.
I find SH games incredibly aggravating, but I still think it's fair to say that SH isn't about shooting monsters, because I found the combat so annoying that I often just ran past everything.
This was a really good video and it restored my sanity a bit. I've been deepdiving in the Silent Hill 2 community and this accurately describes the experience of just coming with some small criticism and you get drowned in "AHKSUALLY...!"
As a SH fan who has devoured anything and everything Silent Hill since 2013, thanks for a refreshing take on SH2. I don’t speak for all SH fans but I can’t be the only one that takes a large break from scouring the internet about talk about SH2 because at the end of the day, all the parroting can kinda bleed and blend in together. So this was the first SH video I watched and wasn’t bored of in a long time.
Exactly. You'd think the game would be ripe for various interpretations. I'd love to see Noah Caldwell Gervais do a video on the series.
‘Actually... in issue 45...’ hahahaha, you are brilliant man. Keep it up!!
i could start and entire y2k aesthetic tumblr clout blog screencapping exclusively Thorbrand "i dunno man" cutaways like the chad i am
I love this game! Also really like 1 & 3, but they have kinda weak stories imo. SH2 is quite phenomenal.
@@TheGabberman9000 The symbolism and the cryptic nature of Silent Hill 2's emotional depth is sorely lacking in those two.
SH2 is sort of more relatable in a way when everything falls into place, although it's so mysterious and inviting.. like you MUST find out what's going on, and it keeps pulling you in with it's soundtracks, great atmosphere and stuff.
SH1 and 3 have already pre-estabilished stories since SH3 is a direct sequel of the first one, so it's not hard to trace the things back to the order yknow. and half the magic is gone out the window after Harry's death to be real honest.
this video had me dieing xD great edits and fonts
I'm always skeptical when to comes to critiques centered around a perceived intent on the part of the creator(s) of any artwork. Like I love SH2, and I personally find the voice-acting to be excellent across the board. But, if I didn't feel that way and someone was like "nah bro like it's supposed to sound weird and awkward, the developers did it on purpose to achieve a certain effect, it's actually super thought out so you have to like it" I wouldn't be compelled to change my mind. It's a stupid and wholly speculative argument, especially when discussing artworks typically made by groups of people like film and video games. Idgaf what the makers are trying to do/want me to think or feel, my primary concern is with how the text itself affected me, and then once I've made up my mind in regards to that personal experience I'll consider looking into background/production info. If you need to justify your enjoyment of something by constantly jerking off the creators and their "intent" then imo you're liking something for the wrong reasons. Like it's all subjective let people like or dislike things. SH2 is my favorite game but I can see why someone would find it just okay or actually a terrible experience, especially nowadays.
Anyways I'm very late to the party but great video, dude!
I've watched a lot of your videos, and I'm a fan, you've done great work before. This was excellent. Like, show-to-people-who-don't-play-games excellent. There's aspects here that touches on fandom, literary criticism, and auteur-ship in a unique way that really adds something to all those discussions
I was wondering how you’re gonna make a video about Silent Hill with Mirror’s Edge in it.
I should play that.
I used to roam around the town in the early parts of the game just because it was oddly relaxing.
Greatly prefer Silent Hill 3. 2 is good, but 3's scares appealed to me more. May have just liked Heather, too.
This game was my first M rated game. Got it and Shadow Hearts or DMC3's black label version from a used game store. Fell in love with Silent Hill. This game is a bit of a nostalgic one for me.
Damn I forgot how amazing 2001 was. Shadow Hearts and Silent Hill came out right around 9/11 within two months from one another.
Heather is what I want all horror protagonists to be.
Honestly, stilted dialogue in inappropriate situations is creepy as all hell to me. Idk about the fandom or whatever (I never owned a PlayStation) but I never had a problem with the arthouse/Twin Peaks-ass voice acting, intentional or not.
To give my two cents on Silent Hill 2, it’s a much more saddening and personal game than it is a scary one. It’s a result of this that makes Silent Hill 2 my favorite purely because of how personal and intimate it feels.
I would agree that the voice acting isn’t what you would expect nor want in a big-budget production (especially when Silent Hill 1 had arguably better voice acting 2 years prior), but I nonetheless think it feels very human and fittingly Lynchian. It becomes more believable when you take in mind that generally, people don’t behave or sound like characters in film, television, etc. I would even go as far to say that most people are pretty damn weird, or at least it can seem that way from an outsiders perspective.
To pop the question, is Silent Hill 2 the best Silent Hill game? No, even as my favorite, I wouldn’t say so. That’s a question with an answer that varies from person to person anyways. I think each game offers a much different experience and your enjoyment in each one really depends upon what you’re looking for with each game. The mellow atmosphere of 2 might not appeal to a lot of people, and as a result they might like the insanity of 3 or 4 better, and vice versa. Overall, the takeaway should be this: just play the original 4, have a good time, wish the rest of the games were better, repeat.
See, i agree with you to a certain extent... “Imagined-in intent” is a real issue a lot of romanticised old media get plagued with but i think that a lot of people defend the games weaker aspects because weather intentional or not, these aspects add to the experience regardless, and I don’t see the benefits of smugly going “ya reading too much into it kid” serves?
Is it supposed to invalidate my fondness of the aspects by introducing doubt that they weren’t a part of the other’s intention? Or am I supposed to have an eye opening experience of realising that “wow this amazing thing that i love isn’t 100% perfect”
This is kind of what makes it fantastic... It is the unsettling nature, the feeling like it could be real, but not knowing truly what it is. It is bizarre and chilling.
Damn, forgot how much I loved your videos.
silent hill 2 is at its best in the darkest saddest wettest labyrinths when you are confused and angry and want to throw up and feel kinda sick
And the whole town looks like its smeared in poo
18:50 where can i buy the "chotto matte iku" magazine?
The King is back! I had rough day...I feel much better now. Thanks man, keep em coming!
13:48 made me cackle like a fucking child.
Your editing never fails to entertain me, Thor. Keep doin what you're doin
Great as always, friend.
esperaba ver tú comentario en esto
Heather was american, she knew how to handle guns
>things europoors will never understand
Not all Americans know. I live in America and I've only shot a gun once, because I sought it out.
Not much different than nerf gun. Stance, aim, prepare for recoil so you don't hit yourself in the face with your handgun, then shoot.
"i've only shot a gun once" is still something many people outside of "america" cant say
I’m 34 and American , I’ve never shot a gun before . Thanks for the generalization though bud.
@@andrewcruz1931 yeah, but i was quoting a veri oxymoronic sounding phrase that was said just here... I mean, if you were to shoot a gun, ¿could you say later "i've only shot a gun once"?. here that's something only a disturbed guy would say (if anything it says something about where the hell he obtained a gun, then again the "only" would imply it was not enough)... Of course with my saying i'm assuming the pal is a normal non-disturbed guy who will never need nor want to... implement that gun, so thats says something about gun accesibility (¿is that a word?) and its commonplace and ubiquous status... Of course, if the dude is indeed disturbed (like all the disturbed people in all the countries, not only "gringo disturbed") then i stand corrected, as my assumption (¿and generalization?) ends up wrong
@@andrewcruz1931 also, firs comment is a way more funny generalization about the stuff coming from an ostensibly "american" guy, so the streetlight was already on green
The voices are perfect. They're everyday people not Hollywood actors. The characters are all fucked up from past abuse and trauma. Guy Cihi was even going through a rough divorce at the time. Also Laura's VA makes sense because she was a kid.
The most miserable time awaits us when the Remake comes out.
"The original was always shit. Glad they fixed it."
"True vision. Finally we get to see the intended story the way it was always meant to be...told? Angelas story is now better than ever thanks to the team who thinks the abused and mentally ill are better off dead."
"Fuck subtle and awkward OLD James. That shit just doesn't fly today we need Sad Onion Face. Speaking of face i like mine to be sledgehammered with subtext and meaning thank you Bloober i mean thank you."
It's gonna be baaaaaaad.
Edit: Oh i forgot something sorry guys!
"The combat is now fun."
well..., in terms of story, silent hill 2 has always been ambiguous in many of its themes. And to be honest, that's the main reason why many fans have overrated it. It really needed a remake.
lol right? because trauma is always loud and expressive, just like the new james…
bloober is so great at conveying accurate depictions of trauma 😂
also wanted to say how it’s crazy how fans aren’t taking history into consideration and are getting their hopes up entirely again
it’s like people forgot what made these games great was how they used a limitations to their advantage to place themselves ahead of games released in their time, thus innovating the horror series.
^ now we have a team who makes videogames that try to make the player sympathize with a pedo, incest, rapist, and have made 4 different ripoffs of pt. bloober are so overrated that it sickens me how they the job rather than innovative, indie, horror developers who understand trauma.
there’s hardly any need to remake it. if you have played games released around the same time as silent hill 2, you’ll understand the things it did great and how it compares to games of its era. it just seems like such a waste of time…
also shocks me how ito would want to make combat “fun”. because that’s want we want right? to look forward to enemy encounters rather than fear them…
Halfway through this reinforces its critical immunity. Oh well.
team silent went full tommy wiseau and leaned into their obtuse development as if it was their original intention all along.
when really it was supposed to be a half ass resident evil clone but ended up being an accidental masterpiece
💯% my favorite CZcamsr
Who would have thought you could resonate with an Aussie guy in his 30s keep it up don't ever change, love your vids man.
"Shit's great..
On perp, or accidental. "
DSP beat silent hill 2 on hard, hes the true silent hill gamer
I think the biggest let down with the game is Angela as a whole. I feel like they didn't got her. She was supposed to be way younger, the voice direction and performance is the worst in the game. And her character has such a strong trauma too.
Yeah I remember when I first learned she is supposed to be 16 and I was like "No? She is supposed to be 40? Isn't she?"
Because she acts way more like someone who is 40 and have had to deal with her demons for A LOOOOONG time
wow that’s crazy. i was literally searching up specifically silent hill 2 and thorhighheels related videos yesterday. no joke.
Actually, it is stated in the special edition manual that James is not trained to be a soldier, so he misses shots on the distance because he doesn't know how to use a gun. But yeah, it's just one detail of the battle system and could be added by PR.
Silent Hill 2 is the Evangelion of video games
Comparing the stilted acting and weird dialogue of Silent Hill 2 to David Lynch is very appropriate. Because the work of David Lynch, I believe, is another example of people confusing emotional impact with intention. I studied film history and film theory under Bruce Kawin, who was also a film teacher to David Lynch when he was a young film student at the American Film Institute. Kawin stated that the one of the qualifications for being accepted by the AFI failing previously in another field. David Lynch was an failed painter before becoming a filmmaker. He demonstrated no interest in the dramatic arts. Everything that people love about him relies on him being able to render visual texture and mood. Otherwise he is basically Tommy Wiseou.
man, I can't believe Tommy Wiseau keeps popping up in Silent Hill topics though
I actually LOVE Angela’s delivery
I don’t mind the voice acting at all, but what kills silent hill for me is the combat. More particularly the amount of ammo you get makes the game way less scary. There are parts in silent hill 2 where you’re running around with upwards of 250 bullets in a gun, and on top of that its really easy to dodge enemies when running around, the only time you have to worry about being hit is if you’re in a small room or hall, but even then you have so much ammo you don’t have to worry about fighting enemies at all. I think it would be way scarier if the game forced you to fight enemies more often or simply made enemies faster, because avoiding enemies is incredibly easy. In other games like Resident Evil, enemies can easily grapple onto you and avoiding enemies is much more difficult. In Silent Hill enemies have charge up attacks instead which makes them easier to avoid as a result
This was a wild ride. Genuine, really smart and well argued points combined with absolute silliness. I love it!
I think a lot of the weird phrases really is "japanese to english writing". Because I, a Russian guy, only think that their intonnations and acting are off, and don't really see anything weird in choice of words, like in "Who is it?" from 16:55. And considering that it was written by Japanese and not Russian people it probably sounded completely natural to them.
New subscriber just wanna say that after watching this video, I'm convinced that ThorHighHeels is the Charlie Kaufman of video game criticism. Meta in a way that feels appropriate and valuable and not just for the sake of being clever. This exploration into the experience of video game criticism, and the role that it plays, was a helluva ride, super thought provoking. Thanks mate, loved it.
This game has always unfairly benefited from groupthink (or mob mentality, or whatever semantics you may prefer), just as works like Final Fantasy VIII and The Last Jedi (just two major examples that easily come to mind, different examples could be used and the point would be the same) have unfairly suffered in pop culture and general public opinion because of many factors unrelated to the works themselves (the political zeitgeist of the moment for the latter, and the once-in-a-generation significance of its predecessor which created essentially unsatisfiable expectations for the former). Silent Hill 2 was at the right place at the right time (early days of the PS2) and most people played it just as they were coming into maturity themselves, so it became the go-to example of "games can be art" etc in the minds of a generation, when the truth is that games had been art for a very long time already; it's just that those games weren't in such an ideal place or time when they released. It's still a great game, a great work of art, of course, but the almost religious reverence with which it has always been discussed is attributable to many factors outside of the work itself, and... yeah. It also resulted in earnest attempts to continue the series such as Downpour and Shattered Memories being unfairly lambasted merely for "not being Silent Hill 2", much in the same way that a generation of adolescents whose only previous exposure to the JRPG genre was Final Fantasy VII would deride VIII for a million different reasons, but that would have almost certainly happened to it no matter what it was: so long as it wasn't FFVII, it would be deemed a disappointment. That's how I see things anyway. I've always felt that the original Silent Hill and Siren (NOT Blood Curse, the original Siren) were vastly better than Silent Hill 2 in most regards. The Sixth Sense is another good example of this phenomenon.
When it comes to "the last jedi" and the other movies in that trilogy, I can totally see why people didn't like them. Part of it was them not living up to previous movies expectations, but it was also that the new movies were just objectively poor.
Alternative title: To be or not to be intentional...
We still love it.
I dunno. Most people I've talked to about Silent Hill 2 online and off for almost 2 decades that love it can also roast the hell out of it with joy. Absolutely nothing is flawless, all your faves are problematic, etc. Whenever someone is quick to defend something, it shows some insecurity. Maybe they want to be seen as a """serious""" gamer or fan or whatever.
Blemishes are FINE. In certain cases it creates character, reliability. Perfection does not exist, but we can get close.
Except for Knack 2. That's a masterpiece.
Really enjoy all of your work, and this video especially felt spot-on! Thanks for all these great videos.
(Also: please review Shemue III!)
Hell yea new thorhighheels
I miss my wife
Your impression of the Resident Evil 4 merchant literally made my day, thank you
Nope, the puking part is not funny . Nothing in this game puts you in a mindset of "lol I hear puking sounds, must be something real funnay!" Nope . "what twisted shit is happened now?" is more like it.
I love SH2 to bits, but you can bet your ass that it will start getting critisized once the remake comes out (no matter the quality of it). The same happened to RE4. It was immune to critique and once the remake came out suddenly everyone and their mother is saying that it's outdated, that it was always too silly for them and that it needed a remake. People go sheep mode when a remake comes out.
People can critique whatever they want, but that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy SH2's voice acting. I know I do. That's a major part of the game's charm.
"Has any film really been as convoluted as the Kingdom Hearts series?" Primer. You mean Primer.
So it's like Skyrim with guns?
I liked the game, I really do. But I do have my problems with it and I'm sick of being shot down as a "you just don't get it" 'er.
- The combat was so unfun that I sighed everytime I saw enemies in a narrow hallway. Enemies are just piñatas you bonk on the head several times. Would've been much better, scarier and overall fun if the game didn't have any combat at all
- The bossfights are all the same: run around in a small room and shoot the tanky boss. How silly it may be, Eddy's second phase was the only interesting fight in the whole game.
- How on God's green earth were people in the early 2000's able to figure those puzzles out on their own?!
- Not noticing a 1-pixel-big key item that is only shown to you in a cutscene makes you run around looking for it for hours.
- 90% of the first playthrough is a locked door simulator, gets old after the third location
- The camera is scary and superultracool at first, but becomes extremely frustrating after a while
- Not everything has a symbolic meaning, Reddit. Lightbulbs in a can do not have any symbolism outside of being a joke from the devs. Same with the voice acting: it's awkward, laughable and ruined the atmosphere (for me) because of budget; not because Team Silent thought it was a good fit for the spo0kyness of the game
Outside of that, again, I liked the game. It's memorable, the story was good and the music sticked to me. But to call it the best game of all time?! 🤨
I even saw a guy say *"Silent Hill 2 proves that a game doesn't need good gameplay to be a good game"* O_O U WOT?
I'll keep saying it: Silent Hill 2 is a masterpiece in horror media, but fails as a GOOD video game. It's an experience and must play, but I refuse to replay it anytime soon.
I've been playing Silent Hill 3 now and it's much more to my taste: I'm having fun. The game feels scarier to me than its predecessor, the puzzles are more fun to do and enemies behave different; making you change combat strategy.
Thank you. I played this game back in the day, and loved it. But, it's not a good game. The atmosphere and story are excellent! But as a video game, it sucks ass. It's a slog, and to each their own, but I can't for the life of me understand how people actually have fun playing through it. Nerds fans just make shit up, that wasn't intentional to feel smart and find "hidden meanings" that aren't even there, or surely weren't intentional. And the shitty voice acting, and awkward dialogue and delivery wasn't intentional, so much as lost in translation from a team that wasn't fluent in English. Any claim that it makes the game even creepier is just people's own head-canon and coping.
Oh mi God you're gonna talk about the walkie fetus date simulator made by Kojima very soon, I don't know what to feel
Just found your channel and I LOVE your voice, narration and humor. But I don't really understand what you're talking about in the video lol
Like him or hate him, this guy's spitting straight facts.
Never played a Silent Hill game, but I've had enough exposure to the series and its fans to know exactly what you're talking about. SH2's a result of internet hype mobs that so overwhelmingly hold up a game as great that everything about it gets raised higher and higher in modern day urban legends, over analysis, personal biases and beliefs, half-truths and assumed authorial intent. It goes the other way, too, where games can be 'verified' as bad by a faceless group of unrelated, noisy cynics even before release, doomed to failure and made an internet-acceptable target for any low brow joke at its expense, or using it as a reference point for anything else they don't like-even an excuse for hating other things by vague relation in extreme cases.
The hailing of Bloodstained as "finally, a GOOD Kickstarter game" despite the actual track record of many praised games coming out (and the vast majority of the money not even coming from crowdfunding) and using it as a 'take that' against Konami. The instant hate for Contra: Rogue Corps and damning verdict of being a bad cash-in game from the first reveal despite the long time series director working on it and saying he's been trying to get a new Contra made for years (and the game launching at a reduced price).
The near deification of Hideo Kojima (and by extension major unintended dismissal of everyone else who ever has or does work at Konami) not just from players, but within the industry to a point of total absurdity and fans calling any reviews of Death Stranding giving it less than perfect scores wrong despite none of them even having the ability to play, or even watch someone else play, the game themselves. The eternal curse placed upon Mighty No. 9 leading it to be the internet's punching bag over 3 years after release and the first example of "crowdfunding bad" everyone goes to to the point Keiji Inafune's reputation was destroyed and his past rewritten by hate mobs to undermine all the work in his entire career and use him as a scapegoat for the reason Capcom sucked for a good near-decade, all over a game that committed the sin of not being spectacular.
All two sides of the same coin, mob mentality erasing the ability for critical thought and the ability or even desire to find out if any facts one is repeating are even true. It's genuinely depressing to me to see so much passion wasted by devoting it to something as petty as intensely hating a video game, or raising up others largely out of sardonic pleasure for how it contrasts with the ones you hate. It's all so tiring.
... Anyway, good video, dude. You put a lot of thoughts I've had into words, which is what inspired my outpouring above. As for analysis of the script and acting, has anyone ever asked Blaustein about how much of it was intentional, how much was directly translated with intent from Team Silent and how much, if any, he rewrote? Seems like the guy to go to for that aspect.
I feel the same about Deck 13s souls-like games. They seem to have been branded as bad for no real reason. Usually criticism being "this is like Dark Souls, so it's a rip-off." and anywhere it's different it changes to "this is not like Dark Souls, so it's bad.". Even people who haven't played it will seem to argue they're bad. Usually going down a mental checklist of Dark Souls features until they reach something concrete that the games do "worse" (usually the number of bosses) and then suddenly that 1 thing is the only measure of what makes a game good.
@@SabreXT Lords of the Fallen was bad honestly, but Surge and Surge 2 are phenomenal and I will defend them without question.
So, I found this channel by accident, and I gotta say, you got yourself a new fan, I love your work, keep it up!
"its 3 am in the morning, so look man i dont know"
in a game review
otherwise if it was 3pm in the morning, it'd be a little bit weird
I love you and your videos you glorious knob
i dont think is the best survival horror of the world,ints not even the best of the series
i take 3 and 4 anyday
This video brings up some good points.
CZcams man hate game? He bad!!!
Seriously though, thanks for making this. Definitely nice to be able to look at things with more than one opinion on them even if you're a fan; especially if you're a fan.
I love your delivery, dude. You'd think that laid back, jocular and self-deprecating tendencies would undermine the more cerebral arguments you're making but they actually work perfectly together.
The "Citizen Kane of blank" is a work of art that puts already known devices together into a coherent system, influences the industry for decades to come and uses the medium's aspects to their full potential. In movies, that means focusing on cinematography and editing. In games, it would be interactivity and choice. It is NOT a game that looks like a half-decent movie, nor a game that's just emotional or fun to play. And it doesn't need to be perfect. Fallout, Deus Ex, MGS and Half-Life could qualify for different reasons. The Last of Us? Not even close.
This is a masterpiece.
It has its problems with the controls voice acting and combat. But also remember that James is just a every man and isn’t combat trained. Everything else from the graphics, story, and music is superb. This the strong case of the positives far outweigh the negatives.
No game is perfect. DONE.
Aw yeah looking forward to thorvember
I fucking love this channel
this video is so damn good. Thor that meta as fuck analysis of the nature of critique and perfection be so fire 🔥
My problem with Catalyst is that i found it boring to take the same paths over and over. It's not that it's bad because it's open world, it's bad because the level design is weak. Mirrors Edge 1 level design was better and linearility makes it easier.
I’m one of those people who feels Mirror’s Edge 1 is better than Catalyst for a few good reasons: Faith as a character, the aesthetics of the city, the weight to your character movement, the comic-like cutscenes, not having an upgrade system. But Catalyst has that “think on your feet” element due to not being an easily memorizable series of straight levels, and that really speaks to freerunning as a sport and lifestyle. And the aesthetics of the city in Catalyst are high quality, even if I don’t like how futuristic they made them. Both have strengths and weaknesses. There are just aspects of the first game that I feel outweigh the positives and eclipse the negatives of Catalyst.
This isn’t even a Mirror’s Edge video. Regardless, thank you Mr. HighHeels.
Mannnn hard mode is the only way to play, hella scary
Best silent hill 2 video ever.