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trinities 354 - Dr. Steven Nemes on Trinity theories - Part 1
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- čas přidán 18. 09. 2022
- trinities.org/... Twitter is my favorite social media site. I enjoy short social media posts, and series of short posts. It’s a good place for the opinionated to hold forth briefly. As they say, brevity is the soul of wit.
Recently I noticed an interesting and insightful thread, a series of tweets, on “the doctrine of the Trinity” by analytic theologian Dr. Steven Nemes. I thought, “This is worth a conversation!”
In this and the next episode, you’ll hear that conversation. Dr. Nemes and I do, in the course of our conversation, deviate from the subject of Trinity theories. In this episode you’ll also hear about the relationship between God and the cosmos, appeals to “mystery,” “the doctrine of the Trinity” as a shibboleth, claims that there is no good anology for the Trinity, why Dr. Nemes is not opposed to “the doctrine of the Trinity” but is opposed to its being mandatory, and his general approach to Christian theologies.
Links for this episode @ trinities.org/...
Dr. Nemes’s website
Dr. Nemes @ Twitter
Dr. Nemes’s Tweet thread which inspired this and the next episode.
“Words of Life” with Dr. Steven Nemes @ CZcams
The Reluctant Theologian Episode 80: The Phenomenology of Scripture with Steven Nemes
William Vallicella, A Paradigm Theory of Existence: Onto-Theology Vindicated
podcast 84 - Dr. William Vallicella on Existence and God
podcast 83 - The Spiritual Journey of a Maverick Philosopher
Moltmann, The Crucified God
Ulrich Zwingli, a.k.a. Huldrych Zwingli (1484 -1531)
Adolf von Harnack (1851-1930)
Michel Henry (1922-2002)
podcast 31 - Dr. William Hasker on the “Arian” Controversy
podcast 30 - The Council of Nicea
podcast 29 - Arius
podcast 28 - Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God - Part 2
podcast 27 - Interview with Dr. William Hasker about his Metaphysics and the Tripersonal God - Part 1
The Standard Opening Move
Augustine, On the Trinity (@SEP)
John of Damascus (c. 676-749)
Karl Barth (1886-1968)
When and How in the History of Theology Did the Triune God Replace the Father as the Only True God?
Vladimir Latinovic, “Arius Conservativus? The Question of Arius’ Theological Belonging“
Mark Edwards, Catholicity and Heresy in the Early Church
shiboleth
podcast 232 - Trinity Club Orientation
Robert Sokolowski, The God of Faith and Reason: Foundations of Christian Theology
panentheism
occasionalism
Feser, “David Bentley Hart’s Post-Christian Pantheism“
podcast 349 - Craig-Tuggy dialogue on trinitarian vs. unitarian theologies
Peter van Inwagen and Michael Rea on the Trinity
Berengar of Tours, a.k.a. Berengarius Turonensis (d. 1088)
Lanfranc of Bec (d. 1089)
Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.
This week's thinking music is "Jonah's Message for New York" by Dr. Turtle. freemusicarchi...
I’m always excited to see a new video from your channel. As a Muslim I can honestly say that I cannot accept the modern orthodox doctrine of the Trinity but am very grateful to you for creating so many podcasts that deal with the subject 🙏
Your series on the history of the early church, various heresies, and the many councils are very insightful. Thank you
The Panentheistic description of God still sounds like metaphysics to me,it's trying to make sense of reality outside our field of experience
I think what the fruit of trinitarianism is that DBH means is the general idea of fusing of divine and human nature, which works with both one self or three selves trinitarianism. IIRC some of the Nicenes historically argumented the Trinity by saying that if Jesus didn't have full divinity like the Father then the fusing of divine and human natures which happens in him wasn't full, and thus salvation isn't guaranteed (or something like that, I dont think they said this exactly about salvation, but I kinda remember something like that).
There are two Trinity's. The original is a Divine Trinity, and now in the Holy Trinity there are three relevant authorities in the new covenant, one God (identity), one Spirit (power) and one Lord Jesus a man and Judge.
Jesus as the Word replaces the mind of his Father to make judgement in the Holy Trinity in place of his Father.
So there are two grace givers in the new covenant not one.
I too am an independent student and found errors which are now Myths. I have a series of Ytube videos 'Myths in so-called Christianity' including the Holy Trinity. Simon John Skinner.
Interesting
@@matrixlone I hope you enjoy my videos as they are a basis for a new teaching I have called 'hereafter', which simply attacks the wrong ideas that so-called Christianity promotes, such as everyone is a sinner by nature which Paul writes is no true. That is the subject of my last video #21.
We can understand God, by knowing His Word, God is Love, He sent His son to save us, God is not the son, otherwise He would have come Himself, Jesus was the lamb of God, true redemption comes from one out of the flock, to take our place, sure, He had innocent blood, a unique human being, now at the right hand of the Father, not on The Fathers lap over lapping Him,. one day when Jesus Christ’s work is done as King of kings, and Lord of Lord’s, His judgement in the earth complete, He will then be subject to His Father, He will give account of Himself, He will not be presenting Himself to Himself, but to His Father and the one true God. Paul exhorts us “lest your minds be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
The Trinity is only a CONVENTIONAL doctrine that was agreed - in a first form - in the Nicaea CONVENTION.
According to the Trinity doctrine the "triune God" is an EXTREMELY TIGHT UNION of three divine persons. Thus, the four gospels should extensively disclose Jesus who CONFIRMS to be in such a very tight union with the TWO other divine persons. But on the contrary that NEVER HAPPENS! Jesus NEVER states in hundreds of verses of the four gospels to be in a trinity with other TWO divine persons. Jesus should ALWAYS state that, on the contrary He NEVER states that. Jesus - who is the DIRECTLY CONCERNED PERSON - DISPROVES the existence of the trinity because He states to be ONLY WITH THE FATHER, not in a trinity. Jesus reiterates that DOZENS of times in all different ways, e.g., "I am not ALONE because the Father is with me." Jesus does not say "I am not ALONE because the Father and the Holy Spirit are with me," as He would have to say if the doctrine were true. Since the Person directly concerned has nothing to do with a trinity, never seen it, knows nothing about it at all, this means that the doctrine of the trinity is just an INVENTION, it does not exist.
This all is very clear, when do we decide to place that doctrine in the right place where it belongs?
Further, if Jesus says He is always only with the Father, this directly implies that NO FURTHER DIVINE PERSON EXISTS: there's no way that Jesus ignores a divine person! This means that even the Holy Spirit who is disclosed by the gospels CANNOT be a FURTHER divine Person. Well, it's exactly like that. You know that the Father is God and Jesus tells you that "God is a spirit" (Jn. 4:23,24). This means that Jesus' Father IS A SPIRIT. "HOLY SPIRIT" is simply THE NAME given by Jesus to that SPIRIT who is with Him and who is the FATHER. Otherwise that "Spirit" would remain without a name, without a possible way to be identified. "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Father" are thus only two EQUIVALENT names for identifying the same ONE Father who is with Jesus. No one else is there with Jesus. The two names are thus practically interchangeable in the gospels (except in the baptismal formula for another reason): blasphemy against the Holy Spirit thus means blasphemy against the Father, the Holy Spirit speaks at Jesus' baptism (and is also responsible for the other events in the sky), the Father leads Jesus into the wilderness, the Father makes the miracle of Mary's pregnancy (obviously Jesus' Father can be no other than.... the Father).
In Jesus christ the fullness of the Diety lives in bodily form the farther is the divine conscience/wisdom of Jesus,and Jesus Christ is the infinite spirit, breath of life, the eternal spirit, living water of life, and the blood/body of Jesus christ, the three are in agreement of the testimony of Jesus christ the lamb on the throne of God, who became flesh and walked with man.
Zechariah 12:10 God says that he will be the one on the cross, long before the time, this shows that God the farther is Jesus Christ. And the same one God.
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