Why Heavy Records Suck Today
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2019
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Way too many modern heavy records are being ruined by over-production right now.
It seems like more and more, I get excited to hear a new record and then have to turn it off because of the production and mix.
Here's what I think is wrong with heavy music production right now, and why you need to avoid following this trend if you want to make records that stand the test of time.
What I cover in this video:
‣ Why so many modern heavy records are unlistenable today... especially because of the drums
‣ Why fans actually buy records (note - it has nothing to do with YOU!)
‣ An honest look at whether you're a true mixer or not
‣ Understanding the "threshold of improvement" concept
‣ Where the industry is probably going... and how to not be left behind
I'm not against using modern tools to make the best record possible... but you need to make sure you're actually making things better, not worse.
Drop a comment and let me know what you think? - Hudba
Generally i like modern metal production. But there is one annoying thing - every band sounds the same.
Omg yes, nobody's doing anything new and even if they do something new the song either sucks at thr mixing part either is a lyrical mess..
Yes, I attribute it to the same plugins, trigger sounds, mixing and mastering software presets and gear. I love dingwalls, get good drums and axe fx but it seems in metal that you have to use those things on 10 to record an album, so everyone sounds the same.
is there any genre that sounds different from each artist within that genre?
marc music I dont mean cheap stupid pop, rnb and hip-hop or dance. Those are the same even more than modern metal bands) But in soft rock, for example, there is a significant difference from band to band at least soundwize. Those are more diverse, i think. Of course, there are bands that have their own sound in metal, but very few.
@@alexgl any example metal band that sounds the same? would like to check them out.
modern metal is produced like edm nowadays. i can see it as a stylistic choice, but honestly i hate it. i want to hear people work their instruments, not "musicians" and "engineers" being lazy and taking the easy route.
That's mostly just hardcore, deathcore, metalcore etc. The music sucks anyway. Listen to better metal subgenres and you won't have that problem.
Unless you listen only to metal prior to 1980, a lot of your favorite Metal albums were recorded with the aid of drum machines and drum triggers and solid state amplifiers. Yes, even those older bands. Don't blame overproduction when you can blame poor songwriting from an oversaturated market in a very explored 50-year-old genre.
@@necroplasmodeus4598 Exactly, totaly agree, I mean this guy is crying about drumshot snares... dude in the 80s once they found out gated reverb every snare on all music, rock, pop, metal sounded like a gunshot.
but the shitty sounding metal was before EDM was born.
I feel like this guy wants to just straight up call out Joey Sturgis and I wish he would.
i think he just called out everyone in URM
Sturgis is a pussy. He and his URM "frrriendzz" are ruining the metal genre with their "top-down mixing" approach and mixes that sound all the same. And the funny thing is that on montgly Nail The Mix 99% of famous mixing-engineers (like Jacob Hansen or Fredrik Nordstrom or Jens Bogren or Russ Russel) use the old-school'ish way to mix the stuff. And the stuff always sounds huge and awesome. I bet Sturgis can't make classy sounding metal mix in any style other than so-called "modern metal".
@@maxmolodtsov salty much?
@@maxmolodtsov It's a great school, bud. I admit it might not be for everyone, but I enjoyed every part of my subscription.
No they're friends 🤣
I completely agree with you buddy I've been playing heavy metal all my life I'm 55 years old now I used to be in the band manowar as the drummer.... I have my own band now and I am the engineer mixer producer and writer..... I have a very low budget studio and it frustrates me trying to get the sounds up to today's standards nobody has identity in their instrument anymore
Kenny Earl having a signature snare sound and trademark in skill and how you hit the snare doesn’t exist anymore. Sample sample sample
@@demodeiowa
Exactly!
Just want to say hello to a legend. Rock on 🤘🏼 Where can we find your new music??
Also saying hello to A Legend :)
@@rosscogiordano1796
Thank you thank you!!!
This is exactly how I've been feeling about most modern metal productions for almost a decade now. One of the few productions that stood out to me was Meshuggah "Violent Sleep of Reason." To me, they nailed that natural band in a room vibe while still remaining heavy and tight as hell. Other than that I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I have actually enjoyed listening to in years.
Great video as always Jordan!
The word I was waiting to hear (although, you said it in a few other ways), is DYNAMICS.
Dynamics are being squeezed and crushed out of many modern productions. So much so that even intentionally quiet segments of songs are being slammed to the point where they aren't even quiet. The intended feel and feeling of that song segment is then lost.
I find myself going past that threshold at times and it can be a real struggle to get things back to where they should be.
Anyway, thanks again Jordan. Great advice as always-
Modern overkill mixing + heavy radio compression = total ear rape
All i know is that this better not be about the new Northlane or Knocked Loose 👀🤐
Cult Music 😂😂
Jordan, this topic has been burning into my brain for a few months now. Thanks for touching on this! I have tried pulling back my drum compression tastefully lately and been totally blown away with the differences. Thanks for sharing!
I have felt this way about mixes for the last decade. Thanks for the video, man. It’s something that needs to be addressed, and you did. Cheers!
Wow I didn't realize it's been a decade now. I still call it the new sound
Great channel, always re-check your tips when I'm mixing. Still learning, but hoping to get better. Totally agree with your points about overproduced records, these come up all the time.
Gatecreeper, ecostrike, trail of lies, fuming mouth, judiciary, inclination. All great examples, and a mix of styles within the hardcore / metal realm, that aren’t overproduced.
what do you think about the new sworn enemy record?
Spot on. The latest Fuming Mouth LP sounds insanely good
I don't see how 5 years ago anything was different. I was already tired of it. Even 10 years ago all this shit was present but it was still quite new, so it felt like the modern metal sound. Now it's just dated modern metal sound.
IMO it was the worst in like 2009 - 2010. At least now there is a variety in drum samples, instead of just Slate haha
Thats what y say..i think rock/metal ended when hair metal died end of story...fuk the 90s till now its all crap...well in the mainstream cause europe is filled with metal bands with that classic hard rock/metal sound its just pretty much dead here except for older bands touring but the new material is crap..theres very few good north american bands out now like haunt, high spirits, greta van fleet but there aint much
Great video. I really needed to hear this! Thanks.
Here's something I think is happening. It's infinitely easier to demonstrate mixing techniques in video formats than it is to demonstrate recording and tracking techniques, which has led to a plethora of videos and tutorials on mixing and not a whole lot on recording drums. This is especially true on free video platforms like youtube, where I can find numerous and varied videos on mixing drums, most of which can be pretty similar regardless of genre (and the EQ, add the compressor, KLIP DE SNAER), but there's only a few videos that show how to mike a drum set comparatively, and even fewer that aren't just reviews of a kit that's already miked. I think part of that is because doing a mixing tutorial requires a lot less work to do, while recording a video for any sort of recording practices requires more equipment (and people at times) and time to do properly, and likely for a video that's less likely to get any ad revenue on a free platform like youtube. Because that's the case, I believe I'm correct in saying tracking videos tend to be locked behind a very substantial pay wall.
It's also substantially more expensive to record a drum set with decent results than it is to mix a drum set with decent results. You need drums, microphones, some number of preamps and conversion, cables to plug everything in and a computer that can keep up with that workload and not crash while recording, and that's before we consider the skill necessary in order to know how to position microphones in a way that's cohesive. On the other hand, I think a lot of people can get decent drum mixes/productions with any daw, and achieve something decent if they had decent source material, or from something that's programmed out of a drum sampler like superior or slate or Get Good Drums (I always chuckle at that name) or whatever.
So I think if we really believe that these things are getting ruined in the mix stage by over production and over editing, there needs to be a concentrated effort to make content for recording that is of good quality, and there needs to be a way to justify doing so essentially for free much like there is for mixing tutorials. I recognize this is more audio philanthropy than it is something that could be considered a viable business model, but the reality is that unless there is an effort made towards removing the paywall on recording and tracking techniques we're likely to continue to see more mixing tutorials until the band decides to just use artificial intelligence to mix records instead.
And there it is. The "T-word". I was hoping you would say it: Taste. That's the real mark of a good engineer. Good taste.
im glad to hear this from you, I believe this is why ive learned the most from your tutorials. Ive come to enjoy doing live sound a lot more in the past few years because of this issue. everything is so fatiguing to my ears now and slammed. great video!
Thanks for sharing, Jordan. Love your videos, lotsa great information!!
Nope, you're not alone with your view on the overproduced music.
Over-production has very little to do with why heavy music sucks today, but CZcamsrs like to claim that because it's a lazy take that sounds right. The truth is that the heavy music artist market has increased a hundred-fold since 2000 (since anyone with an SM57, an instrument, and a cheap interface can record an album), while the monetary incentives for making music have dwindled (far fewer Rock and Metal stars post-2000 compared to before, so the groupies, money, and drugs left the scene), and the hobbyist artists that remain haphazardly-compose half-assed riffs from their favorite Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Meshuggah, or Tool albums. The artform itself has been very thoroughly explored, so people that want to "revolutionize" what are effectively dead genres resort to making the music more atonal, or more dissonant, or more math-y, or more minimalistic, and the result is always the same: the music is boring because it lacks any cohesion.
I think this happened to a lesser degree around 1991 when Grunge got popular because other productions were sounding too unreal and peoples ears were refreshed by the rawness of grunge.
very similar indeed
Exactly. Eventually, people want things to look and feel real. Right now, as a society, we seem to really be leaning towards everything having a filter and being fake. I think the pendulum will swing the other way, soon.
wow... I'm glad I saw this early on in my learning to mix my home recordings... Thanks for the input! I'll rewatch this with notes tomorrow. ^_^
Hey! I’m a drummer and a vocalist. I am also a long time fan of metal and all it’s various sub-genres. I fully agree with everything you said. Great stuff man!
Hey Jordan,
Thanks for the video,
Could you provide a few examples of those mixes you were frustrated with recently?
Lol I was just about to post that till I read your comment ha
Nikolas Quemtri he won’t lol
@Eternal Rambler I've not really listened to anything new I still listen to the same stuff I've been listening too for years.
@Eternal Ramblerfeelings and memory.
I was about to post the exact same question. The thing is that thresold can be sometimes subjective. Althought when you hear a kick sounding like a sledgehammer you know better than that.
This video was so bold! I really appreciate that you took the time to articulate this issue in a way that challenges the industry to grow in a constructive direction. I love records that stand up over 15+ years and as I heard you reflecting on your experience with newer music in this genre, I realized that's the difference between a 2020 record that I listen to once and a 2005 record that I'm still listening to. Thanks for doing this video, I really hope it has an impact on the future of this music.
Meanwhile, Opeth releases their new album 'In Cauda Venenum' in September.
What you're talking about is "The law of diminishing returns".
Exactly what I wanted to write 😊👍
THANK YOU SO MUCH. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I don’t really listen to a whole lot of heavy music, but when I do (the new/recent stuff coming out) you said everything I had a gripe on!
One of the tricky things is-that threshold is in a different place for everybody.
Some really great points you made !!
When a song looks like a square wave they did too much. What happened to dynamic range?
The loudness war happened.
love what you drew on the board could be applied on everything always find a sweet spot
My mixes are oriented towards mainstream metal from roughly 2000 - 2010. People these days often tell me: "I like the song, but the sound could be a lot more polished and bright." or "It lacks power." This is probably due to the fact that I stay away from this overload sound that is popular today in modern metalcore - where many bands sound almost identical. I could not even dial in a guitar tone similar to lets say Orbit Culture, because this is not who I am or what I like when I'm playing the guitar. Back in my days (:D) bands sounded quite different from each other. And today it's just cannon drums, drop L tuned guitars, harsh vocals with a lot of true vocal folds and so on. Diffecult times for guys like me - where can I find an audience that appreciates my being-different? :D
Share your stuff.
@@BlackSailPass_GuitarCovers My channel is full with my material. :)
Totally agree with you, I feel the exact same way, every song sounds the same to me, same samples, or at least the way that they are mixed, disconnected from the track, etc I try to change this with my mixes, things need to change
Deep purples In Rock album was recorded with a mobile studio parked outside while the band played in a hotel hallway. Legendary music with no digital fuckery.
The thing that sucks is because I am an amature I listen to these pro recordings and think that’s what I should be doing. I heard an album the other day and was thinking “is this how loud I should be making the kick drum? “ it literally was burying the guitars and everything. I feel like mixes have no sense of balance anymore. And I don’t know if your right about people getting tired of it because everyone I know(even great musicians) keep saying how brutal and awesome it sounds. I think only people in production realize it’s going to far.
I guess time will tell!
I agree, diminishing returns from over processing. This happens to me a lot getting carried away adding shit that doesn't benefit the song
Great video Jordan, thank you so much
Greetings. I was delighted to hear that you share your rants. I personally had the same problem with indies pop in where I stay too where songs because formulaic and predictable. There used to be moment when people say that pop music because predictable because of the chord progression, but I believe so is the same with modern metal. If we are so focused with trying to get that same sound, eventually it will fall the same trend.
So thank you for the PSA
Excellent demonstration, man.
I'm glad you made this video. I've been mixing for around 3 years now, and I started having this same problem lately. I thought mixing was turning me into some overly critical mixing snob, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one bothered by production these days.
I'm glad you released this vid Jordan. I too haven't been listening to a lot of modern metal records, except for a few ones that have a sincere sound. For me, metal died when every band started quantizing their drums. It sounds good when industrial metal bands like fear factory do it, but that is the picture they're trying to portray (man/machine). Vocal tuning is another problem. I still listen to records that came out when there was no such technology and it's impressive how much deeper those songs hit.
WOW, I started to think this exact thought yesterday as I learned new tricks to make a snare drum thwack harder with more punch and power. My ears told me, hmmm, this is starting to not sound like a snare, and I hear it more in the mix, BUT, its not as pleasant. I record live drums in my studio, not the best mics, but, my raw sounds sound exactly like drums. I applied to your mentorship course. Will see if I get accepted and see how much the course costs. I have 40 years as a musician, guitar player, multi instrumentalist, and recording for only 10 years. Just digging in deep for the first time into recording, and learning, use your ears and trust them. I want to become good at the art of mixing, have the tools, but dont have the knowledge or experience yet. I have waves gold bundle that I just updated, SSL native essentials and studio one 5. Amp room is my plug in for guitars and have a real Marshall and Mesa cab I mic using a 57 when I feel the urge to go real.
Solid points. I do feel that much of what is being lost in music is that human element. Again- this isn't a blanket statement, but there is a finite line of over cooking vs maintaining that human element. Yep- certain genre's call for that. If anything maybe the masses will go for obnoxiously overly processed stuff, but like everything in nature, and even economics, things eventually level out. Again - great video man!
I agree with you 100% I was beginning to think I was the one that was wrong!
Really refreshing to hear this!
That first Periphery album,I read it was recorded on drum pads thru software.
I agree with you. Everything sounds the same and over-processed. FYI you've been a great help to my productions lately - your advice on EQ for kick drum and cymbals has helped me immensely! I'm determined to make real music with an authentic performance.
I agree. Time to put some warmth in the mix again.
Back in the 80s I found it really annoying when punk bands started sounding too polished. But, there were some amazing releases, particularly from the UK and Europe, that still hold up well and give me the same rush as they did when I was 15!
Here's a short list of selections I play when I need that raw energy:
Discharge - Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing and State Control EP
Rudimentary Peni - Death Church and Farce EP
Killing Joke - 1st self-titled album and What's THIS For..?
Battalion of Saints (US) - Fighting Boys EP
Amebix - Winter EP
Excellent video. Exactly right! The song is the king! (not the kick drum!)
That will never go out of style!
Lol,I wrote my Thrice comment before I seen u mention them at the end..anyways,I'm recording from home and REEEEALLY trying to get my technique down,and knowledge,etc...I'm not exactly trying to become a full on engineer or producer,but I would love to be able to make my own records and with whatever band i may be in and maybe some local bands later.so i will check out your classes man..gotta new follower here..and Everytime I Die is GREAT too btw..Fear and Tremblings intro guitar tone is SO GOOOOOD...sounds like you're in the room with him and his amp..and BTW,Ross Robinson is my fav producer...dudes AMAZING at getting the feels out.
tl;dr Don’t be a “miximizer.” 👍 I’ll certainly remember that.
Good news is, I’m still wayyy to the left on that chart. 😂
I agree with you 100% I find my self enjoying comparing early Judas Priest records such as Sin after Sin, Stained Class and Screaming for Vengeance to my own mixes to get similar results without mirroring their mixes.
Thank you for saying this. It struck a chord with me
This was great content! I agree with almost everything you said. Loved the diagram and the threshold of improvement (what I would call "peak goodness"). You could have said everything in this video within 10 minutes though; too much repetition!
Couldn't agree more! It's not a competition. As a producer, I think it's selfish when your goal is to be the loudest or the most brutal, when it's not what the song or band needs. I'm also a huge fan of hard hitting music and drum samples, but some new releases have just no organic or authentic sounds because they've exceeded that threshold of improvement. Great explanation!
Yes I miss bands sounding unique! I think a lot of it is like a trend among musicians. That if you dont sound like a "modern" metal mix. Your mix is trash or it's too weak or not clear. For at home producers, we are riddled with vsti drums and vst plugins. Every big personally on youtube is pushing on us. So it's almost all we know. I think an average listener that is not a musician just expects a solid product. They dont analyze what kind of mix it is. They just like the song or they dont. The metal community has become pretty bad lately. Everyone judges everything you do. From the guitar tone to the cowbell. And if it's not "djenting" your ears out, then it's considered old and behind. When it's never been about old or new. Music always changes. I feel like it's a trend and "expectations" from musician to musician.
The irony! The first thing I learned in this channel is that no matter how crappy the recorded band sounded, you must polish it with quantizing, eq-ing, sample triggering, reamping, overcompressing, etc until it sounds pro. Folks out there learned the lesson too well, now producing "MIXIMIZED" songs.
The reason drums are so loud in the mix these days is because they tend to get lost after extreme loudness processing. If we allowed for more dynamic range in our modern edm and metal masters this wouldn't be a problem.
Totally spot on. Modern production has taken the life out of heavy music.
Nope, you're just listening to hardcore or other similar (shitty) subgenres.
@@michaels7159 oh wow glad you told me that a subgenre is shitty. Did you get a pair of JNCOs with that edge?
@@michaels7159 any of the "core" subgenres are garbage tbh
@@davidrucareanu4849 there are good bands in every genre. And good metalcore and deathcore bands are verrrry good
Hey Jordan! I'm so glad you're talking about this. I was just listening to some old Incubus records and I was amazed at how raw Brandon Boyd's vocals were! I was like, "Wow! That's slightly out of tune, but it still sounds cool!" Back in the early 2000s and 90s there was so much raw emotion allowed to enter the music without the over-editing. Now maybe that's a reflection on how powerful computers and editing software have become, but we all need to take a step back as audio engineers and think about if we're actually making better music with all these tools.
The problem is the listeners. If they give views to trap/rap garbage, producers are gonna produce this. If they give views to overprocessed metal, producers are going after that.
Good solid, sound advice!
Im with you on this Jordan.
Coming back to this, I've noticed a lot of metal productions these days feel like what I call producer music where the technical production is the main focus of the music. You can see this in genres like deathcore, where bands nowdays just compete against each other on who has the most overely produced monstrous sound, while there's not much going on musically, and you can't really hear much of an actual performance of any band member because everything is basically layers upon layers of quantized and maximized stuff. I think that's why we're also witnessing the disappearance of guitar solos as we used to know them, an important element of rock music where you can hear the charcter and feel of a guitar player. That 'imperfection' is usually subtituted now with guitar leads so quantized and and edited that sound like they could be done with a midi instrument.
"threshold of improvement" is a very precise definition. bravo
'Miximizing'. Love this term!
you have no idea how happy it is to know you feel the exact same way. I have not been listening to new releases for a while now because its terrible . i feel everything is so maximized like you said , but because everything is maxed out it becomes blend after 10 seconds into the song . it just sucks man
Hey Jordan,
Interesting video! A few month ago we released our new album with a more "over"-sound, as you mentioned in the video. We had the biggest argument with the band if we would go for that new more modern sound or the raw pure sound (mix and master). In the end we chose the modern sound. As far as we are now, we only have grown as a band and we only get good reviews. As a band in a scene where there is not much money envolved, this is kinda important and we are puched in a way where we have to follow the need for this sound to survive as a band and keep playing gigs, pure budget wise. It's sad, but a true fact. I think both band and sound engineers need to find a good balance.
ADD: Offcourse everything start with the correct instruments that blend together very well.
ADD2: Just checked your videos. Love it. +1 subscriber.
I always say "metal is turning into EDM"... and it literally is. The guitar and bass are basically synths because the natural playing is edited to the point of being MIDI, drums end up being completely artificial digital explosions to the grid. The band are just stage dancers.
In short, dont mix the humanity out of your song.
Far beyond driven was one of the last monster guitar-heavy albums the production for that album was just in your face and it was a guitar tone that people imitated for years if not decades after even if they alter the formula Dimebag started a whole new sound with that album and Vinnie Paul's deep Custom Drums were sick too
One of the best drum sounds I´ve ever heard is the opening of the Black Sabbath album Seventh Star. Why? Because the drum sound is the sound of a wide open loud and noisy double-bass drum kit,- which would be Eric Singer banging away at it,- which is exactly what it sounds like. Not tight, constrained and overprocessed but alive and wide open,- which means an actual performance actually being recorded in one go,- the whole song played through from start ´till finish recorded onto a 2" 24 track analog reel to reel tape recorder,- not copy pasted into infinity from a two bar measure of a basic rhythmic pattern called a "beat".
Making everything about the music directly in the DAW and not even bother with actual human musicians is what RnB´s, hip hop and rap´s been doing for twenty-five years,- calling it a producer driven outfit, which means that the " producer" writes and " records" but essentially programs the music and then hires a nice looking girl or guy with some limited abillity to sing/rap the lead vocal - which of course will be MeloTuned ad nauseam ´till everything sounds just the same as everything else,- it´s just moved on to embrace the metal world.
A prime example would be the German metal production channel URM Academy where the lead producer has stated that he doesn´t care what guitar, bass, amp or drum kit the musicians are bringing to the studio,- he´s gonna DI, sample and reamp everything anyway - be it guitars or drums - makes no difference to him.
One of the most depressing statements I have ever heard and the absolute reason I would never use him for anything were I in a situation where I had the finances to reward myself with actual pro studio time and not just sitting in a spare room at home with a DAW thinking I´m the next greatest thing,- working a pro production here....!
I´m agree man, can´t hear anything lately... also good tips for my album release I´m producing in.
Thanks a lot.
I recognized already in the 2000ths. Already then band were trapped in machinegun heaviness and it seemed to be no way out, except stopping to make music. Still Pantera's Far Beyond Driven is more fun to listen to, than 75% of the metal albums from the past 20 years.
Great point J. Despite the technical efforts of these last few years (loudness normalization) people still want LOUD mix. That's the problem. This overproduction problem is a son of al big lack of listening education. The engineer should be a key factor in this paradigma change, but he must pay the bills, so he do what the client ask for, and the problem is never being solved.
Couldn't agree more, I actually just this week released a free set of drum samples for rock and metal, where I purposely under processed the samples (mainly subtractive stuff) so that people have more choice about how they use them.
The majority of the time I try to get as much as possible from the live kit and have the samples augment rather than completely replace. I did a death metal record last year and it was the rawest record I've heard in that genre (but still modern enough) for a long time but the reviews were all fantastic.
That's why I LOVE Zakk Cervini's mixes. That guy is a GENIUS when it comes to producing/mixing.
Next Level - Programming the Program
not to be a hipster, but i've been saying this for years. things just sound SO ridiculous now. drums, especially. time aligned. sample replaced. destroyed. guitars and basses are riff built to death until it sounds like guitar pro. vocals tuned TOO far for absolutely no reason. this new Capstan record. amazing songs and performances, but the production sounds fake. honest songs with absurd production takes away from the song. bands like polaris... it's pro tools and an axe-fx gone sentient. even the last ABR sounds kinda phony.
anyone else notice how mono everything sounds? wide.... but mono. big mono.
things like programmed bass, and now programmed guitar. it's out of control. "it's just a tool". well now it's metal techno. which is funny, because The Algorithm makes techno metal sound amazing.
Fing Brilliant!!!! We are not robots no matter how much we want to be- musicians are the experience OUR job as producers is to enhance and bring out that feel- Jason it is great to have someone like you saying this, a younger producer.
Totally agree mate!! Sad thing is that every new metal band that have some success these days record/mix/master the way you and I "hate". I see No happy future😭
12:04 I was mixing a song and I felt like it was ok, but days later I revisited the mix and realized there were some procesings that ruined the sound instead of enhancing it, but when I did it it made perfectly sence to me
I love this. You’re absolutely right.
I absolutely agree. Prime example for me in the last time was Monuments - AWOL. I was SO excited about that record, love the band, love their songs, loved everything I heard on youtube or instagram when they shared something they did in the studio. Live drums in a great room and everything (great drummer of course)... record comes out and the drums are like twice as loud as the guitars and like you described in your video: every snare hit is that huge snarebombwhatever thing, kick is so loud unless I go for my studio monitors I don't even know what their bass players is doing on every other device.
I think you have a great point. I rarely listen to metal albums that were released after 2014 ish. However it's hard for you to talk about this specifically without giving examples but I think I understand why you wouldn't want to do that.
Well said bro, I couldn't agree with you more! Unfortunately this production style has made it's way into a lot of different styles of music. A few album cycles ago a mutual acquaintance was hired to track drums for Keith Urban. He set up his kit in the studio, they had him hit his drums multiple times (him thinking they were getting tones dialed in), and within 20-30 min it was a wrap. He had learned the songs for nothing as they were essentially using his hits as samples on the album (and quite possibly on numerous records at this point). He got paid for the session and credit on the album, but needless to say was disappointed with how things happened.
Totally agree with you ! I explain same stuff on my videos. ... but in French 😉
I had the same feeling listening to Drink about it by Issues. You're totally right.
I like the song you mentioned but... I don't think other way to do the song in fact...
I've been thinking the same for the last 10 years probably. Also may be the reason why the rock genre lost so many listeners that moved into listening other genres (including myself) . Hard rock music started to sound like pop production where you can't tell anymore if you're hearing a cymbal or a sound effect. The same is happening to hiphop today where everything is getting compressed and sidechained and it feels synthetic. What makes genres great is exactly the imperfect human element. The grittiness and feeling make these kind of genres what they are, not saturated processing to make it into polished plastic. Metal music production today feels to me like someone taking a Picasso painting and then try turning it into a realistic photograph for some reason.
Thanks man !
I've noticed over the past couple of years that every records really pushes the highs in their mix (for perceived volume I assume). All it does is make the entire mix sound thin and I honestly can't even hear the guitar/vocals in most songs now a days. It's just a loud, jumbled mess. Great video.
Tater Fight I hate mixes that are so bright that they hurt to listen to at medium volumes
Loudness war + overcompression + overuse of sampled drums/sample reinforced/replacement = shit records. There's no dynamics, in emoting or volume, no humanity left. The samples and editing/processing themselves isn't the issue. It's the fact, as you said, that these things are overdone. The curve analogy depiction you drew on the board, with the threshold, is so fucking accurate. It's akin to the Uncanny Valley with CGI animation.
The focus on editing always leads to the quest for perfection. Music needs another cycle like when punk came along. It doesn't have to be perfect, flashy, fancy, on the grid. Only engineers care about the perfection. Listen to many old albums that were recorded analog where they didn't have endless room and equipment to achieve "perfect" mixes. Many older albums, even classics, are not something we would render today. We would say they're half-finished. But the listener doesn't give a sht.
Music needs to be produced for the listeners, not the engineers, not the musicians, not audiophiles.
This is so important and everyone should take note of what he is saying in this video.
I struggled for far too long to get that polished modern metal sound or whatever you want to call it until I realised that it is way better to find your own style and diverge from the mass product. There are already 100s of guys out there who mix that specific sound. Why would you be one of them?
Instead go out on a limb and do something fresh. A new perspective on these kind of things can bring you the success you are aiming for.
I mean at some point someone started with that polished sound and made it popular. It's time for a change guys :)
Definitely good points made here
I think the problem with metal, not in all cases, but is many, is that its so over produced and manufactured. I started noticing it 20+ years ago. Listen to old fear factory, then listen to digimortal. Good album, but over produced. As soon as they realized you can make an album cheaper, and with less time going over and over the guitar parts, and drums, and instead just editing in software, it started to sound fake.
It's the Laffer Curve of tasteful production! Suffice to say, you're not the only person I know of to make this point.
I've been feeling the EXACT same way about records lately. As a drummer I sometimes find it just silly how bands can go for a sound that's just so unrealistic and mechanic. That's why I love bands like Between The Buried and Me and Karnivool so much, 'cause they always have very organic, yet big sounding drums.
Completely agree on everything you just said. Last good hardcore band I listened to was defeater.
The problem too is that direction. Since we have so many more tools now that make it easier to overproduce than it was in the past. I feel people are trying to push in new directions by making it stand out, but it's become a tipping point. Especially with this style of music that's been popular for so long now and seen its up's/down's.
this is really great video;
I realized I've fallen into exactly same issue, being drummer and sound engineer, during my latest mixing I was pushing the processing of drums too hard - surprisingly it matched the song quite well, but also drum tones were almost completely gone;
howto deal with it though? what "modern" song drums sound natural enough to take them as a reference?