stop complaining about detail in games.
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- čas přidán 18. 10. 2021
- Today in this video I go on a huge big baby rant about tweets I don't like. I realize this is a bit of a departure from the content I usually make, but I'm travelling and needed a video to go up before I headed out so I thought this would be an easy topic to talk about.
Twitter: / stryxo
Twitch: / stryxo
Discord: / discord
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umm
i would like to talk about, uhh, the new games coming out. I can't wait for halo infinite to come out on december 8th, and God of War Ragnarok is gonna be sick. I can't wait to play Demon Souls again, Elden Ring is finally getting released, and uhh, umm, uhh, umm, uhh, umm, uhh, umm, uhhhhhhh
yeah i agree - Hry
This game cured my depression and brought my wife and kids back, but Kratos doesn’t have nose hair. 4/10
HAHAHAHA
You mean -42/100?
ppl's reaction to gta definitive edition:
@@lestorm5530 wdym gta definitive edition was actually bad. How dare tehy call that a "definitive edition"!
@@andretheunstop it wasn't that bad in my opinion
Developer : Adds dynamic environments
(Performance goes down)
People : The performance on this game is shit!
Developer : Removes dynamic environments
People : This game ins't realistic enough!
lol true
You just described a bad developer...
That or the fact that needing to target 8 year old consoles holds games back
@@mechanicalmonk2020 Or that it's just really difficult to get proper interaction working on likely individual level props all over a game, and if people are forcing you to, you find expensive workarounds that dip the performance, but hey, at least the game will have dynamic environments and meet the release window right?
the developer just should MAKE THE GAME'S CODE BETTER.
@@Izhen_UwU most of the time the code is the best it can be and you can't change that
Saying the game sucks because it's missing details like these is ridiculous, however I do think they are valid nitpicks to point out like, "Oh, I think it'd be better if they added some kind of interaction between Kratos' axe and the tree" but not having such a detail shouldn't make the game bad.
Maybe if they asked for something like a particle effect or a sound it'd be fine. But the fact they're asking for "fully dynamic environment" is just stupid.
This. All those nitpicks are the small things that really immerse you in a video game.
Look how from software does it. If you try a big sweeping move in a small tunnel your weapons gonna bounce off the wall. Now imagine if it just clipped through every time. This directly affects gameplay, and you could argue it improves it.
@@jrizzelli that is a mechanic not detail
It's also a difference if people complain about unrealistic physics in shooters or if they complain about them in GTA. While shooters are more about the mechanics and skills, a big part GTA is to see how much mayhem you can cause. For that, you need physics to make it feel satisfying. In shooters, this is not necessary.
It's ultimately a weird complaint. There is destructible environments in God of War. The first fight with Baldur you destroy the trees in the area. Not everywhere has it, sure, but there's places in the game with it.
"So what the fuck are you doing looking at fruit?!" The delivery slayed me. On the subject of the video though: this is probably a symptom of a lot of people growing up on "raaah I'm angry this is shit" style reviews and not having a full understanding of how to review something.
Angry Video Game Nerd?
@@okquentin I'm more referring to video essayists that spend the majority of a video going over small details because their content has no actual substance, the avgn is more of a transitionary fossil from old to new CZcams but he certainly contributed to what we have now
@@DepressedDiego yeah i just thought he was someone you were thinking of when you said people grew up on “im angry and this is shit type of reivews” lol
Crowbcat, lmao
@@okquentin he wasn't quite so cynical as they are today. I blame Yahtzee for starting the trend and Crowbcat for making it require zero effort.
I feel like half of these tweets were made just because of the console war. I don’t think its a coincidence that most of them come from exclusives
Wait console war is still a thing?
@@Malva597 sadly yes, but i think its died down alot, mostly i only ever see is like ps fanboys, not saying like they are terrible im just sayin that ive seen more of that cause of ps launchs of good graphics games that lets say xbox doesnt have which i honestly dont care for but eh, its there
This is no way of saying that like xbox is better or anything just pointing out that some people cling to one thing that their preferred game platform, it happens alot on xbox side to, ive personally seen less cause well idk what peopke brag about other then maybe halo infinite but other then that i have no idea
@@Malva597 somehow yes
@@goldenmrb00m64 nah you still have nintendo fanboys whining about the steam deck
From console war kids and people that have no understanding of game development.
Let's say they would add the ability for Kratos to cut down trees during combat, what would happen?
The screen would get cluttered with leaves, branches and logs that would make it impossible to see whats going on.
They would also have to be physics props (to appease these twitter morons) which would cause also cause the performance to tank.
Then you'd also have to think about which other objects could be destoryed, the way the (negatively) impact gameplay and performance.
Shit like not being able to cut down trees or vegitation being static has no affect on the gameplay unless it is incorporated into the gameplay from the start.
Details like your character pushing aside vegitation etc. should be seen as nice bonuses, not basic necessities.
I can’t stress enough how much I prefer stylistic games over overly realistic games
Same. Would you rather have a creative and awesome looking world or just real life again
@@Tortilla_Pizzeria_Pixels you mean how Witcher 3 owing to its great graphics and attention to detail is just like real life? I slay monsters everyday anyway so why would I wanna do that in a game right?
Right?
@@Tortilla_Pizzeria_Pixels Yeah cause 4k textures must mean the game is just a boring life simulator right??? Like wow I can't tell you how many dragons I had to fight on the way to college or the shear number of alien invasions that happened last year.
What a dogshit take my guy
@@xcalium9346 Yes
Why 4K ???
1080 is good enough or 1440
@@AcidiFy574 dude. 4k TEXTURES. Learn to read. I'm not talking about the display resolution.
Little details in games should be praised not expected
this
@@gigabit6226 that
Graphics to me dont matter, gameplay does, details are entirely seperate. i fucking love when devs put cool details. It shows just how much time they put in.
Yeah, it just shows how much time they put in useless bullshit instead of improving the fucking game
@@farraelll7288 lol
as long as it isnt programmer art
@@farraelll7288 well in Super Mario 64 you can see mario leans in the direction he walks. Its a stupid detail right? Or how inverse cinematic in Ocarina of time seems also useless but it gives more immersion.
@@chatty_6814 well it was in this day and age it came out or the sign you candestroy with yhe water sliding.
I still can't understand how there's still people who have this way of thinking, with that mindset they're gonna miss out so many good things!
Faaaaacts
Gamer OCD
i dont have twitter
I agree
Also nice pfp
Well, if the game puts fcking M1 garand with a drum mag that pings. It would piss me off, I want WW2 games to be what they used to be back in 2000s. I want Cod be fun as it used to be back in 2007 to 2010. I want the classic Battlefield artstyle as it was in BF1 and BF3. I want the GTA trilogy to be a good remaster. I want Neil druckmann to realize he is a simp
Yes I would never stop complain about these devs who literally destroyed all my favorite franchises.
As a future game-designer, details can be very important for immersion.
For example while cutting trees outside of a fight in God of War isn't that bad, if during a battle scene (in which you want to use your axe and strength to fight) you launch an attack towards the opponent and there is a tree in the way, you have to code it so that it breaks.
This little details are what makes a fight even more interesting visually. And visuals are importants since it's what we commonly see IRL that set up "realism". Realism is of course important for immersiveness (in many ways) so that's why it can be important.
But to the point of saying a game is bad for this, it's just stupid.
A game should always focus on its primary point of gameplay (called pillars in the area of game design) because it what sells a game. People play a game for a gameplay they like first, then details is what can sometimes determinate if a game is even better than the others.
But first you need a really good and innovative gameplay, which most of recent games unfortunately lacks.
Yes indeed you will def make good games if you think like this
You are a good dev
mhm, things like animations, lighting and physics also help with the immersion of the game.
The quality of textures doesn’t matter that much.
@@CAPTAiNC I mean... Depends on the overall quality of your game. If your texture are good everywhere, a bad texture is less acceptable.
But it's true that lightning effects (like the light source and shadows), animations and physics are all really important for immersion.
I'd say the most important is physics though.
@@CAPTAiNC the most important aspect for a game’s immersion would be consistency. A highly stylized game like Hollow Knight is far from photorealistic, but what sells the world and keeps you immersed is that it doesn’t break the rules that it has set up for itself. You’d be completely taken out of the experience if you suddenly saw super-detailed 3D rendered graphics at some point
"If you wanna chop down trees, go play Minecraft" now that was unintentionally hilarious... don't go outside or anything...
Depending on the game you’re playing small details can really add to the experience. For example, in modern warfare the gun reloads have a bunch of tiny details that give the game more personality.
I remember seeing a compilation of funny rare reloads once, awhile back (I think the game was one of the battlefield ones, but I don't fully remember), and I still remember it to this day - because they were all funny, unique, and charming.
Cool stuff like that is always great, but definitely not required.
yea but gun details make sense in an fps. Fruit physics does not.
details are nice but theyre optional
Could you imagine all the knock-on effects if Kratos could accidentally chop down trees in the middle of combat? It brings up so many questions, each of which would have to be implemented and playtested to see if they make sense:
- Does he chop through them in one swipe or does it take multiple?
- If it takes multiple, do his attacks get interrupted when they strike a tree?
- If it doesnt take multiple, does his attack still get stopped or slowed down to sell the impact?
- Does Kratos' effectiveness at chopping down trees scale with his power-level or weapon level?
- Do the stump and trunk disappear after getting chopped down?
- If the stump doesnt get chopped down, should enemies be able to climb on top of it?
- If they're standing on a stump, does the swipe which took down the tree still hit the enemy?
- Does every enemy have a unique animation for climbing on top of a stump?
- If the Trunk doesn't disappear, can it get stuck leaning on another tree
- Can Kratos further slice up a fallen trunk?
- Can Kratos and enemies climb on the trunk?
- Does this open any sequence breaks across the entire game?
- Do the branches have collision?
- Can the trunk or brances cause damage when they fall on something?
And the questions go on from there to explore how the tree falling effects combat, and all the other systems in the game.
Development time is finite. Pick your battles.
Almost all of those questions are solved by 2 solutions. Trunks despawn quickly, and you cant climb on stumps.
-1
-no
-slow down the separation of trunk and stump
-n/a
- stump no. Trunk yes
-no
-n/a
-n/a
-n/a
-n/a
-n/a
-n/a
-only when attached to the roots
-no
It doesnt affect combat or any other systems... he just chops down trees like a mighty god-slayer.
The problems are trivial to solve. They probably just didnt get it looking good enough by launch day.
@@SeekerGoldstone can you still touch stumps? Will your weapon interact with stumps? Will it look incredibly stupid when the trunk deapawns?
@@adamnielson42 I already covered the first 2 questions. The answer is "what's less work?"
The stump has identical collision regardless of whether you've cut it down or it stretches miles into the sky. You cannot occupy the same space as a tree, regardless of whether there are upper branches present. Imagine I've removed the top half of the empire state building... nothing would change about how we can interact with the bottom floors... we still cant climb up it or stand on top or clip through it... the basement still has the same collision values.
Weapons interact with stumps in exactly the same way as trees. which is to say that it swings through them, and does a check for upper branches...if upper branches exist, trigger tree to fall. If the upper branches have already fallen, nothing happens.
Yeah, it's immersion breaking to watch things despawn. Like I said in my previous comment, I'm sure that has a lot to do with why they didn't include that feature. The reality is that you will never own a device capable of accurately simulating the physics of each particle in an interactive scene. You have no choice but to accept sacrifices that the devs have made. Even if we had infinite computing power, a disappearing tree is a better alternative to accidentally creating an impassable obstacle because you weren't gentle and cautious enough during a thrilling fight segment, or getting rube-goldburged by a clumsy enemy that isnt even in sight yet.
The devs know that "this game launched without promised features and is a barely playable mess" is about to have less negative impact on sales than "but don it dont looked dum wen dem trees don stay fowever?" So they pulled the entire feature because they knew in advance that they could create a mindblowing new technology to handle it but you would still say "I cant push bark through loading zones. Basically unplayable"
This is why we cant have nice things.
I mean, these questions had long been answered. Physics engine with collision based interactions existed since half life.
The question of whether or not its necessary is one thing, but we don't need to pretend it's some sort of philosophical dilemma that plagues the devs into existential crisis whenever they make dynamic objects lol. Botw didn't go into delay or get patch update because the tree fell the wrong way.
@@FFXfever The question is not really whether the engine can handle it or not. The question is whether this additional gameplay type is worth the implementation costs.
BOTW was built from the ground up to rely on physics interactions to drive gameplay. Adding one more physics object type just adds another gameplay option.
GOW is built from the ground up to rely on tight animation timing and enemy-behaviour-analysis for its gameplay. You could still add physics objects, but they are something you have to account for, not something that seamlessly adds to gameplay.
You'll notice, Elden Ring, for all the designs it adopted from Breath Of The Wild, didn't add the ability for players to dynamically introduce more physics objects into combat and traversal (no tree-cuts), because that is also a game focusing its gameplay around tight animation timing and behaviour-reading.
Funny enough, the old GOW would have done much better with tree-cutting, since that was a game much more centered around adapting to chaotic environments
moral of the story:
dont use twitter
This man speaks the truth. You should run for the president.
Well said Gyro
Or watch CZcams there tons of detail videos and comparisons
I get that the details of how fruit breaks or how tyres pop aren't even remotely useful or impactful on gameplay, but every time I notice a feature that was not required by the devs being put in the game it just reminds me of the care and attention and passion they put into what is pretty much their work life for sometimes upwards of 3 years
Yeah, because making a masterpiece for 8 years doesn't matter at all, real love is making a fruit explode for the sake of "oh, thid id cool"
@@farraelll7288 but they did it in their previous titles. you're just letting them fuck you and asking for more for these shitty softwares from billion dollar companies that can afford to do it.
but whos actually putting in fruit physics? small indies. they're doing it. AAA are doing live-service games and then releasing frankenstein monsters of games that were originally going to be live service but then pivoted after other live service games failed horribly, leaving you with 2 giant stinking turds on your hands that you are apparently meant to worship just because "they couldn't afford it!."
pure BS. put one guy doing this sort of exotic gameplay for a year rather than just putting an easter egg hunt of 900 fucking turds that reward you with a turd hat. there you go, you got fruit physics which will equate to a lot more sales when showcased into a twitter post than a golden turd hat. you're paying swindled my dude.
@@farraelll7288 look at pokemon and the most shops dont got an indoor part. Or how the textures repeat themselves. You can feel if love is in the game like botw. People still make videos like the tribe that was forgotten and you find details in the map about that tribe.
@@farraelll7288 yes actually caring about the game and adding detail into it is good
But does that make the rest of the game less enjoyable to you if those details aren’t in the game for whatever reason? Because if so then you are the problem. You also need to understand that rarely ever do studios have the time to put in a ton of stuff like this. If you want to make a game that plays well, and looks well (up to modern standards) these days, then you would need at least a 5 year development cycle on a premade engine in order to have time to add small details like plants moving.
And before you say “oh well older games had that” yes. They did. Because making the graphics for said plants or the whole game takes a lot less toll on the game compared to today where if every lead isn’t hyper realistic then everyone starts pissing and crying.
I gotta say that when developers do go the extra mile and add some small mostly unnoticeable detail, it's really cool and shows some care and passion for the craft. But when people nit pick every single detail (and lack there of in some scenarios), it's just plain stupid
I personally really like when games focus on the small details. It really makes you feel apart of the world.
Same, it's cool. But I'm not gonna throw a fit because a leaf doesn't move when I walk over it😐
@@SuperJGGaming yeah lol, small details and that stuff is cool, like in open world games and when you drive, your blinkers go off or your radio kind of get distorted in a tunnel are cool but it won't ruin my game experience lol
yeah, but it is far from priority
True.
Yeah I agree, and I also feel he kind of inappropriately lumped graphics with other environmental immersion features. Graphical quality can be extremely important in a different way to environmental interaction, although generally I think they’re both overrated and hyped (at least to the level seen in vid)
I mean I get your points and fully understand them but the fact that you didn't upload in 8k kind of breaks your whole argument
lmao
I think little details add up. I appreciate how detailed Silent Hill 3 , Dead Rising 1 and Resident Evil 4 are . It makes the game world seem more rich .
Sometimes a game in a franchise will have crazy attention to detail, you can see and feel the love and effort that was poured into the game. So when you get a sequel to the same franchise that's had significantly less love and attention to detail put in, its very transparent that the game released was more for commercial gain than for the fans of the art.
Yup
So generic
That doesn’t explain things like halo though. Everyone and their mom has been shutting on halo infinite for the dumbest shitty little nitpicks about how water physics are different or how tires don’t deflate or fruits or whatever the hell else.
First of all, the engine halo infinite is built on was built pretty much entirely from the ground up and it doesn’t really work that well so the fact that we even have attention to details such as boxes and bottles exploding when you shoot them and tires is a miracle in itself. But other than water physics, literally no other halo game has had that attention to detail before. The only scenario I can think of is in halo 2 on the map Battle Creek, some rocks fall off the cliffs when you hit them with a rocket launcher and the only reason they added that was because of an Easter egg from red vs blue.
I have to say a game shouldn’t be judged by its graphics it should be judged by its ARTSTYLE (also nice my first comment to reach 1k likes :) )
Amen. Unless its Busby 3D That shit is not even good in the promotional art.
1000% agree.
Ultrakill!
Lotta retro style games and indie games have great art style even with not too detailed graphics like ultrakill or dusk
people here talk about games like ultrakill and dusk which is ps1 artstyle but i want game that is similar to tf2. or even wind waker. or as far as today's nintendo games artstyle
As my friend once said: "there are people that *force* themselves to like video games."
?
So nobody understands this comment?
Oh I get it! He is talking about Ark Survival Evolve fans!
@@seawarshark6674 Nah he's talking about Sonic fans
@@stitchfinger7678 No bruh, he’s talking about COD fans
Triple A Developers: LOOK AT THESE COOL NEW GRAPHICS!
Me: I just want something I can run PLEASE!
Me2: i just want to feel something better than sex...
Exactly. Game graphics peaked in the mid 2010s. Those games are virtually indistinguishable and in most cases look better then modern games. I've been playing through Jedi Survivor and the performance issues were so bad that I had to make the game look actively worse then Fallen Order while it still runs worse. The same is true for games like Fortnite, which looked way better in 2018 despite being graphically worse just due to it's art style.
This reminds me when people complained about the “Nintendo 64 trees” in Pokémon Sword. I didn’t realize we were playing a “tree watching” simulator
I'm gonna say it Stryxo, i'm gonna fricking say it dude.
I agree with you, but for games like GTA IV that want to sell you the real life experience, it needs to be there. I don't mind if it's not there for God of war or Ratchet and Clank, those games offer and focus on other things. But a game like GTA that expects me to believe this is real life, i need the little things.
This was my main problem with Cyberpunk, they told me it was gonna be a dystopian future gta, and it had bugs that even gta 3 didnt have. and it would have been okay if it wasnt for the rest of the bullshit but all the crap combined breaks the immersion. In God of war, you dont need that stuff. You're never out of immersion you play a literal god slaying machine.
At no point in their marketing did I ever hear that it was going to be a dystopian future GTA, sounds like that's just what you wanted the game to be
@@forknife326 They marketed it as an immersive open world cyberpunk FPS RPG game. It may not have been directly stated, but it was clear that they were using the marketing to aim at the GTA audience.
Those details are definitely worth investing development time into if the game has an emphasis on realism
@@forknife326 "The next generation of Open World" sounds pretty damn clode to that
I would say thats a video game for you its a world not really based on reality but is based on reality but also a world where you get shot 20 times and just survive and come back from death
Tbh I don’t use Twitter, but from what I see this seems like a classic “Twitter giving a negative minority to push interactivity”, so I wouldn’t worry about them that much. But still nice video
Dude it's way bigger than that, all those "GTA 5 vs" or "RDR2 vs" videos are just that, they peddle attention to detail as the quality of the game.
after BotW, player interaction with plants is the one detail i always look for in games. it's such a nice detail that i can't get enough of tbh
It really is a wonder. I was playing Genshin Impact and tried to shoot an apple down from a tree just the other day and was disappointed there's no collision for apples. You have to hit the tree or jump to get the apples. I guess some people are just hyperfocused on combat, but there's a huge potential for combat in environmental physics too that doesn't just rely on twitch "skills"
I’ll die on the hill of saying that Stardew Valley is by far one of the best looking video games ever. It’s not next-gen, it’s not overly detailed, but it is unique, charming, and warm. Overall, when experiencing a game’s details, I’m way more concerned about what the developers took time to do, rather than what they didn’t.
You would be surprised how many people look for pixelated games.
Myself included. I especially like the aesthetics that look close to Metal Slug.
Lets stop there, its definitely not the best looking games, its kind of disrespectful to even say that when you have games like elder ring and stuff which look beautiful. Stardew isn't a graphical game, its a game which focuses more or mechanics and gameplay rather than how it looks. Their all equally good but for different rrasons
then PERISH=
@@commentgod2175 well pixelated games could also be pretty nice. Like look at demon crest it looks really good. It is pixelated yes but it has so cool details in there that it is even today really nice to play.
@@commentgod2175 LMAO an elden ring fan gets triggered. You seriously think it’s “disrespectful” to not suck elden rings dick 24/7 lmao
The little details are like a cherry on top for me, the cake's good on it's own but the small cherry does make it more enjoyable for me.
One example would be left4dead 2 vs back4blood, a fun little detail you might've missed is the facial expressions the zombies make and how furious they are.
Or how specific basic zombies spawn in specific areas, like the police on the streets and mud slingers well in the mud.
Of course that's not the only reason i don't find back4blood compelling, but it doesn't have the same feel.
Another example would be the l4d2 gore vs the b4b gore.
Tldr: minute details aren't necessary yet they do make the experience more enjoyable.
In Left 4 Dead 2, they improved the gore details. There are 43 unique ways to "gib" an infected. They done this in order to provide a satisfaction to the player.
@@seawarshark6674 yeah sorry i didn't put that in, and you can really tell.
Idk left4dead2 is more enjoyable than back4blood.
@@pennamebear well yeah since left 4 dead is actually fun and has replayability plus likeable characters. Back 4 Blood was just a cash grab I feel like they don't really care about video games.
The thing is Left4Dead's core gameplay is killing zombies, so this details are actually can be very impactful
But chopping trees in God of War is not core gameplay, so that detail is not very important
@@videomontaggenerator ah understandable and thank you for giving me a new perspective and you're completely right, i never thought of that before but i will in the future.
I agree with stryxo, I don't care what the game looks like as long as the game is fun its great to me. I don't see why people are dying on this hill where the game has to be 100% realistic or some shit.
"B-but it's next gen, all games need to look hyper-realistic bwaaah"
@@sakuradabp6400 lol
I mean, I DO still care about how the game looks. Visual identity and consistency is still really important - it's just the complaints about microdetails that get really annoying
@@Hush.Elementz yeah, but it depends on what the game is
Look at a game like Darksiders 3, it's older than a lot of those realistic games but it looks way better, why? Because it has an Artstyle that is still good looking after many years.
4:16 Sometimes, I just like exploring the maps and taking a look at the physics although I don't think it makes or breaks the game whether fruit gets destroyed or not.
Honestly I love the small details in games, it’s nice to see how developers add small things to make the environment / game more “ alive “. But people saying it ruins the whole game if there’s a small detail that’s not there are just stupid, it’s never that serious
he said details don't matter
We are making the mother of all games here Jack. Can't fret over every little detail.
Hehe Armstrong
Not when you're trying to release a game on time right?
Not being able to cut down the tree in god of war
“TYPICAL GAME DEVELOPER
BIG PROMISES BUT ALL TALK”
Fuck all theese limp-dick critiques and chicken-shit complaints. Fuck this 24/7 internet spew of graphics and next gen bullshit. Fuck "Good Graphics". Fuck the media! Fuck all of it! Internet is diseased, rotten to the core. There is no saving it- we need to pull it out by the roots.
I think it would be less an of an issue for people if past games didn't have that level of detail. Many games in the 360/PS3 era had very detailed physics and systems that showed a level of detail and polish that modern games don't have. To a generation of gamers who grew up with games launching in a complete state, small things like this add up and show that developers are prioritizing fancy graphics that are more "look, don't touch" over fun gameplay systems. Crowbcat does a great job showcasing this problem with modern games. And Halo Infinite launching with soooo many features missing, and the fact that what is currently there isn't polished to a next gen shine can be frustrating. Especially for people like me who grew up on polished, feature complete games like Halo 3.
It is like comparing Rift Apart to Crack in Time. One doesn't have even crate phisics and low health iddle animations (that's so stupid) when the other is so full of little details.
I'd take Crack in Time, but I in general don't like Rift Apart and that's just one of the nitpicks.
Similar to how to zombies respond to hits in l4d2 vs back for blood. It doesn’t necessarily change the gameplay but the overall vibe and details both games deliver are massively different in that area
Sonic unleashed for PS3/XBOX360 and metal gear solid 3 snake eater for FRICKING PS2 has reactive vegetation but ratchet and clank rift apart for PS5 don't have reactive vegetation.
For a game being called NEXT GEN don't having things a ps2 game had many years ago is something absurd.
@@Izhen_UwU Also now that I think about it A Crack in Time and Tools of Destruction had reactive vegetation too.
12 and 14 year old games
I am willing to reluctantly excuse that and the crate phisics but Rift Apart doesn't have low health iddle animations either and that's 200% unnaceptable
@@Izhen_UwU sonic forces is lifeless while unleashed is amazing looking and playing. That game was so good
The kind of details that add more replay value to a game isn't talked about enough.
I agree with everything except “pointless” immersion. Immersion is the ultimate state a game can achieve. Immersion is the biggest factor that allows you to spend hours on a game without noticing such as in games like BF1 to Yes, Your Grace.
Immersion is very important but the thing is with games immersion is created with consistency as we know it’s fake but if it adheres to its own rules you can be immersed by it. Adding small details that make it seem more realistic at times can even take you out of the immersion like how in rdr2 weapons unequip after getting off your horse it doesn’t make the game more immersive it just feels tedious and unnecessary because the game knows you want those weapons equipped as you already did so undoing it and making you walk back to your horse to grab them just makes it tedious and breaks immersion.
@@plugshirt1762 Exactly. I feel more immersed in games such as Yes, Your Grace (as stated previously) because of the internal consistency. At the end of the day it’s a 2D management sim with no voice acting, but parts of the story gave me goosebumps and I could play for hours without a care in the world.
except most of the immerssion in bf1 doesn't come from details, it comes from amazing sound design. Bf5 probably had the same amount of detail in the game as bf1 except bf1 had better sound design, it boosted the muddy atmosphere of the game and made it so enjoyable.
It really depends on the priorities of the game. Battlefield does benefit considerably from all the subtle variations to its animations and effects like water droplets on your gun, but that really would not fit a game like Halo. The people he's complaining about in the video are people who want to critique games but can't grasp anything abstract so instead they quibble over the pointless things that they're able to understand. The word for this is "dilettante".
@DT. Redgrave yeah that example was pretty bad if you’re trying to be a next gen game you have to at the very least uphold the same level of detail as your predecessor and something like the plant being affected by walking through it is such a basic thing it’s kind of shocking they didn’t add it
As someone who does 3D art myself, I feel the oversimplification often said that "graphics doesn't matter, gameplay does" is very off. Compare it to a movie: you can have a great movie with an awesome story and acting, but some CGI that looks a bit off can still pull you out of the immersion. You can't have the perfect game with no situations like this, and I don't feel it should be the expectation necessarily, but having those details *does* take a game a notch up. Not in gameplay, not in how the story plays out, not in how good the game will sell, but in immersion, which shouldn't be overlooked either.
But yeah who tf expects you to be able to chop down trees in God of War when there's zero purpose to it, what it needs is just a slashing texture and the axe actually colliding.
I agree, it's important but most of the complaints seem a bit too silly.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. It can and often does provide a needed benefit to immersion, but it’s not ALWAYS necessary to have at that level
Most people when they say that just means gameplay is more important than the graphics. If a game has really amazing graphics but terrible gameplay and story it just feels like a waste of time while a game with amazing gameplay but just serviceable graphics can be amazing
People aren't immersed in real life, they will never achieve that in a virtual world either.
I disagree. My first console could only display colored squares... not even pixel art, just squares dots or lines. When I fell in love with games, there were NO graphics or narratives.
I dont feel like detail is the same as immersion... Nethack is obscenely detailed but 0% immersive. I think "immersion" is the phenomenon where you fall into the zen-state and forget that you are pressing buttons, and achieve "one-ness" with the game. I experience that most often playing Tetris.
You can play a pretty game without having fun but you can have fun no matter how ugly a game is.
I do agree with the guy that said that its not worth 70$, not because the graphics werent worth that, but because no game is worth 70$.
I agree. 70$ is a ridiculous price for a video game
70 is cheap. Here in Australia, most new-ish games are 100
One game that goes against this is rdr2. A game that thrives on detail. You could hunt a bunch of deer stack them on top of each other, and set them on fire which will then spread to the grass beneath it, each deer having bullet holes in the exact places you shot it. rain will then fall putting out the fire, and you will then ride so quickly you hit a a rock and fall getting mud all over your clothes, upon reaching the nearest town the people will react to you being all muddy and gross, and your horse will take a dump.
While I think this is true for the most part I think you can use details to tell if a developer was lazy making a sequel if said details are present in the first game but absent in the second. Look at battlefield 2042 for example
I do often wonder why such details can't be ported over. Was there just too much time crunch?
Assassin's Creed Odyssey was one of those games that got nerfed pretty hard for the giant world
Imo it's all context dependent. Does the mechanic influence gameplay, what is the authorial intent/artistic expression and what size of a studio are we talking about.
I would argue that in games such as GTA V and Zelda Breath Of The Wild (Which likely inspired the comment of God Of War tree chopping), that kind of attention to detail is important as they're sandbox worlds designed to test your logic and creativity, in addition to providing an immersive, fun experience.
Games like God of War and Ratchet and Clank may have a studio large enough, but I don't see how deep environmental interaction would improve the user experience in these linear, story focused action games.
Maybe Spartan rage can be used with the environment as well like while you're in Spartan rage you can pick up trees and rocks and use them as crowd control that would be cool :)
Considering that games are being priced up to 70 dollars on newer playstations, it feels like the least to be asked for.
@@channel45853 70!!!?!
@@channel45853 Imo for something as inconsequential as aesthetic environmental interaction, it really doesn't make sense to have the lack of it upset people, especially when the labour can be used elsewhere for optimisation etc
idk why you includes logic and creativity in games like gta v lol, why not dishonored, deus ex, cyberpunk, fallout, and the witcher where every choice leads to major outcome or variations?
These tweets are pretty over the top, but sometimes these detailed interactions are important, or add up to change the feeling of the world.
In some ways I wish developers would spend time on things like this instead of detailed rendering and materials, I think the interactive stuff adds more to the game.
The Ratchet example in especial I actually agree with the tweets. Older RaC had those features, why doesn't it have it?
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 because the developers focused on other things. Like not having loading screens and making the game look insanely good.
@@slycooper2bandofthieves116 Two very pointless things. Especially when it doesn't even have the old RaC arstyle so it is still boring to look at.
I miss the old Insomniac. The Insomniac capable of making A Crack in Time in 9-10 months, which is better in every way but graphics than Rift Apart.
It’s insane how many classic games will go unplayed in the future because people focus too much on detail and graphics than gameplay
With everything happening in twitter with the release of Starfield, this video makes so much sense
Not sure what the argument with starfield is but i just don't like it because of how clunky and like unresponsive it feels. the voice actors don't fit like half of the characters anyways.
@@wetswordfighterI trust the modders anyways
graphics only really matter when they directly interfere with gameplay or story. and gameplay wise, thats more art direction than anything. the only example i can think of is the anniversary edition for halo ce and how the enemies blend into the background and shit. thats not a graphical issue thats just bad art direction.
Bad art direction but techinically realist, camoflague and that.
I think it's a genre thing. In an Immersive Sim, I want all that stuff, because chances are it'll have some bearing on the gameplay.
In something like Doom or Quake, it'd get in the way of the focus.
It's never about the graphics, it's about the style.
Team Fortress 2 is a perfect example of this. The style is a timeless masterpiece which still holds up to this day.
Details are important, it reflects how well the game was crafted as a whole. The lack of detail shows how rushed some games are. It shows how unfinished games can be.
The truth lies in the middle. Detailed and cool looking interactive environments make a game feel more complete. If you choose between making the environments static (like in CS:GO, for competitive reasons) and making them interactive, choose a side and stick to it.
It's not that we would now want for Halo Infinite to have better looking fruits. But it is a display of the game's lack of detail and polish.
Same for Rift Apart. It doesn't even have low health _iddle animations._ I could see an argument for the plants not reacing bla bla but people are going to go into low health at some point, that should be there.
then play older ones like nfs u2 or gears. Both from >2010, graphics can be meh for you but the gameplay is fucking amazing and the storyline is ridiculous, graphics doesnt necessarily make the game cooler tho, thats why we didnt get a good need for speed until heat because ppl just care about graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics graphics until your pc explodes.
>The lack of detail shows how rushed some games are. It shows how unfinished games can be
I’m gonna have to disagree with that one. The lack of features show how rushed some games are, not details.
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 yeah but it doesnt really need to be.
@@3u-n3ma_r1-c0 Just because you lowered you standarts doesn't mean everyone can. I don't mind the unreactive plants that much, but the lack of low health iddles shows how rushed the game was (though it the game reusing a bossfight I think 6 or 7 times) more than shows that. The low health iddle for me has always been a great display of how Ratchet is a living breathing thing.
The game being so obviously rushed is weird because Crack in Time, a game made back when they were much smaller in *9-10 MONTHS,* has more content than Rift Apart
man I love this video, it highlights the fact that people are nitpicking on some bullshit that was never around from earlier games from their respected series...
but holy shit they added fruits to halo infinite???? no way
I'm surprised too, like since when did that happen
LOL, Talking about small details never really existed before? Goddang you must never really played anything if you think like that
Ummm, A Crack in Time and Tools of Destruction had crate phisics and reactive vegetation _12 and 14 years ago._ And even the very first Ratchet and Clank game had footsteps
Rift Apart doesn't even have low health iddle animations. That's truly stupid and inexcusable
You blow in from stupid town? There are so many downgrade vids on so many different games it’s insane. Look up “Battlefield 2042 Downgrades” by Kaio Patrick. So many small details and gameplay mechanics that made it into older games just vanished from newer ones. It goes from small immersion enhancing things like older battlefield games having collision animations (if your leg hit something, you’d stumble, if you walked in water, you’d have a very different running animation and a speed change, if you ran into a wall, there was an animation that played for other players, if you threw an explosive in the dirt, a hole would be created for some cover) all of these were in past games that just straight up didn’t make the cut in 2042. Details show how development went, and show how much time they put into polish, or if they even made it to that stage.
Now compare dying light 1 to dl2 lol
waching him in other channels just to have him uppload himself. Wonderfull
Great video, thanks yt recommended. Totally agree, because there is a reason why games with fully dynamic enviroments became it's own genre
i agree with you to an extent, however sometimes the details are what really push a game to the next level. like in rdr2, all the little things combined together really made the world feel alive, which really improved the immersion for me.
Since that is an Open World Exploration Game those Details are important, his Point is that not all Genres need such details
For me, I don't look on the details, but when I found or incounter them, I will put a smile on my face.
I just played the best game ever, amazing story telling, great controls, some genuinely funny moments and- WAIT NEVER MIND THE GAME IS 0/10 SINCE YOU CAN’T FUCKING KICK AN APPLE WHEN WALKING INTO IT. WOW, THAT GAME WAS OVERHYPED.
I enjoy playing cyberpunk, but unfortunately my immersion is ruined when my character gets shot and doesn't scream in agony while going limp
“Ugh, why do I have to walk over the ammo enemies drop and not physically pick all of it up one by one and insert the bullets into my magazine?”
I thought you were talking about details in story and stuff like that, when I saw the title, but yeah I agree with what you say, people generally focus way too much on how games look and less on the gameplay and story, which is why they start to complain about pointless stuff like this.
The people complaining don't understand how much work it is to do all this. Halo is a very good example like why would they invest time and money in fruits and shit when literally NO ONE is looking at them lol
that one kid buying Halo: _I'm looking forward to the fruit physics_
When you buy gta san andreas and play that virtual video game inside CJ's home xd
@@Brindlebrother blame crowbcat or those details comparison channels
reminds me of how at a pc gamer show there was a showcase for a game called Gloomwood and people were shitting on it for having retro graphics. there we people estimating the quality of the game based on its art style that was trying to mimic and pay homage to its influences from the Thief series instead of judging the gameplay presented. gamers make me wanna bash my head in sometimes, they can be so god damn annoying
Gloomwood is also specifically designed to be like that. Like, it doesn't look like that because they're incompetent, it looks like that because they want to emulate thief in visuals as well.
I think that having these little details might be a good benchmark to see if a game was rushed or on how passionate or creative the devs are. Definitely not on how good a game is (unless maybe if it’s a vr game because heeheehoohoo thing move when I touch.)
I 100% understand your point, and agree. But if a developer really wants to make their game realistic, a lot of little details add up. For example, rdr2. They put so much effort into every little detail that it makes the entire world feel more realistic than every other game. The npcs actually interacting with you and eachother, Random events, robberies, fine details in the world, regular train intervals, good animation, the way the horses muscles move when they run, etc. Not saying every game needs imense detail, cause they don't, but if a game is striving for realism, I think it's important. God of War isn't super realistic nor is halo infinite, so who cares in the end.
As someone that spends too time messing around with things that don’t matter in games, Hitman 2 (and probably 3, idk haven’t played it) blew me away with how much attention to detail there was and how many little things you could do and break. I don’t mind if a game doesn’t have these things, but I appreciate them a lot more when they do
Srtyxo I can't believe you made a video telling us to stop complaining, I'm gonna go rant about this
Chopping down trees in GoW would probably be something you do once and say "neat" and then never do it again. Why would they need to add it?
these people: "but immersion"
me: "go immerse yourself in the shower"
what
I like to value these complaints in time spent in Game: This means if you took about 5 seconds during the entire time of game to see your issue, it's probably a non-issue
What I would argue is that if AAA companies was able to do it all the time with their previous IP but then decide to deliver a half-baked product without the little details (worst, the core gameplay mechanics not being finished), that’s when we have a problem.
Like Ratchet and Clank. A Crack in Time had reactive vegetation, crate physics, footsteps and _even a breathing animation_ 12 years ago. How can RA not have at least low health iddle animations (yes, it doesn't have that) is beyond me.
good video, but it needs realistic tire deflation physics to compete for best selling video of the year
The standard for gaming has rose so high everyone expects perfection now and nostalgia also plays a role because people hold old games near and dear to them and dont want them to end up bad
Gaming standards have fallen lower and lower over the decades. Duke nukem 3D has more interaction and fun details in it (a game from 1996) than most of what comes out now. It's all rushed out the door with hardly any love put into the games
@@buzzinggz556It’s so obvious when someone doesn’t understand how game development works. 1996. The game size was 1200 MB, you could run it on a damn stick of ram. These games are huge now. Not only does it take a lot more time to add these details now, but with how games monopolize your hard drive it also takes up more space.
100% agree. Sure it's nice to notice the small details but that's not the main focus of the game. As a person who is learning game development, games with little detail are already hard to make with all the modeling, programing, voice acting... If developers made the game completely identical to real life physics then no games would ever be released.
Thats where open source comes in. If you want real life physics in your blockbuster fps game then go and make it your own damn self. And if you can't, then don't complain about it on Twitter and look like laughing stock
Its a blessing to have a video from you come out
I'm a big fan of Arcane's immersive sims. The amount of detail is outstanding and really creates the feeling of a full, real world. However, this can only exist on a relatively small scale due to performance and time issues. Not all games have to be extremely immersive, people don't understand that not every game is trying to be an immersive sim. Also, I know that BoTW exists but that is a ridiculously big game that I'm sure was a headache to make.
God of war's prototypes actually had tree breaking as a mechanic, I think they just removed it because it was annoying for movement.
I also hate it when people praise games for having "attention-to-detail" especially when the base is never really well developed.
Shots fired
The only scenario I think complaining about lack of interact-able detail is justified, is VR games. I played RE4 vr and it was great, but the lack of interactability in the environment is pretty jarring after playing Half Life: Alyx.
6:27 “Go the fuck outside” 😂
Half life kicks ass and set the standard for physics and interacting with the world.
u mean half life 2? HL1 had very primitive physics and not that many interactions all things considered
Honestly id love for this to be a series.
It was satisfying hearing someone tell these people we dont need these things.
I read the thumbnail without thinking about the fact that I'm on youtube and immediately said "fair".
Having to listen to people that only care about "incredible" graphics is painful. I remember my sister being genuinely mad that I liked undertale because the graphics were "bad". Man, people are annoying.
my sister said doom was worse then cod because doom (a game released in 1993) has worse graphics compared to a game mostly made in the 2000s
when i'm playing games and notice these "lack of detail" mostly in singleplayer games coz i dont have time to do these things in multiplayer i like to joke about like "wow so realistic" or "this game isn't worth x$ and that i want a refund" for small details that don't need to be there
I totally agree with what you're saying. The fruit physics, melting ice and destructible stuff in MGS 2 definitely impressed me and kept me entertained way longer than it should've done. I think a lot of people remember those details from MGS 2 pretty well but it shouldn't be a gauge for whether a game is bad if these things aren't included.
i suppose some kind of a counterpoint could be that all these stupid details add up to an overall better experience. my personal favorite example is left 4 dead, the source engine alone adds so much fun to the environment, mostly destructable objects. the zombies have a mix of a animated and physics animation that feels really fun to play with. although its already been talked about a lot, back 4 blood feels more hollow than l4d because it misses these "stupid details." obviously, the quality of the game isn't entirely dictated by how one part works, but a lot of the time these details paint a picture of a developer's care for their game.
This is the exact same thing i was thinking
Another example is Ratchet and Clank. A Crack in Time has so many little details from crate physics to reactive vegetation that even gives you bolts when you walk through it and even a breathing animation, ironically making it's cell shaded sub 720p ass more immersive than the 4k raytraced Rift Apart which doesn't even have low health iddle animations
Delete Twitter
All problems gone
Those stupid people still exist. We need to put em in there place
Lmao the "go the fuck outside" line killed me
I hate the obaession over "weapon inspects" in FPS games. The only reason developers put effort into this is for players to rationalize spending $20 on a new skin for a gun.
Weapon inspects existed long before microtransactions
You seem like the guy who hates weapon reloads because they take time in a game.
@@ANTHONISHERE cringe take. FPS combat was forged in the era where reloading meant booting up your last save.
@@robertdefibaugh1317 BS. Name a single game before CSGO that had dedicated buttons just to look at your gun.
@@Scatmanseth Real Life. Specifically the 1910s. 100 years before CSGO.
Twitter, also called, "the hate machine"
Yay stryxo uploaded
As someone with low teir specs as i only use a laptop really got into appreciating the minimal styles of games.
It makes games honestly more memorable than oh lmao it's another overly realistic game again.
Like every triple-A game
something im guilty of is that i get flustered when games with realistic artstyles have inaccurate depictions of firearm models, and my biggest pet peeves in game details are gun models with their safeties left on (surprisingly common and not unseeable when you start noticing) and mirrored gun models like in far cry and older shooters. i actually didnt use the mp5 in far cry 3 because the devs gave it a reciprocating charging handle.
i also still hold the opinion that half life 2's weapon design is horrendous and that they should have used fictional or sci-fi guns because the models all look like garbage (theres a spas-12 that can fire from its magtube, a rocket launcher that fires from the wrong end, and an mp7 prototype that fires 40mm grenades out of its gas tube, to name a few problems) but theres no canonical reason why an orwellian alien master race is using manmade firearms, let alone mostly rare exotic ones, so why not just use original guns? on the other hand i was pretty disappointed when i saw that mgs5 started using fictional guns (so are the guns in all the other games not canon anymore? gun nerd shit was pretty prominent in mgs)
i understand that im looking for these issues, but i dont see it as a huge problem until it interferes with worldbuilding, for instance 0 societal or economic progress since a 200-year-old war in bethesda fallout entries. i have the same problem with the fact that night city in cb77 cant decide between whether it wants the average citizens to be middle class and dirt poor.
but with the exception of bethesda fallout games, i dont think these issues stop these games from being good. im one of the few people who seemed to genuinely enjoy cyberpunk even though im the guy who bitched in the official discord about the breaker 12ga having 20 gauge rounds modeled in its magazine.
obviously realism does not necessarily equal immersion and vice versa but in the case of rpgs it can be more important than otherwise. i do believe that making guns in an fps look believable is important since its the focal point of your viewmodel but ive never seen it as gamebreaking. if a game is very stylized like hotline miami and overwatch or supposed to be absurdly over the top like the darkness or postal then i couldnt imagine caring less about gun realism.
at the end of the day its just a personal pet peeve and i dont actually intend to criticize most games based on lack of detail. i actually hate the abundance of scripted sequences and cutscenes in modern singleplayer games and think that a gta style open world without cutscenes would be great, and i also think about someday dabbling in game development and trying to make a certain idea i have of a game that involves making guns in a very simple style.
im going to be honest here, i refused to try or watch any videos with stardew valley all because of the way it looked (the 2d style or 16bit whatever it is) and i tried it out with my friends and im in love with it and will always hate how i had it for so long and never tried it keeping me away from the happiness it gives me
4:44
In most ratchet and clank games, walking through plants makes them move and gives you a few bolts. Kinda weird of them to forget a gameplay mechanic.
Let's not forget RA doesn't even have low health iddle animations. Hell Crack in Time even had breathing animations. That game in general went such a long way to make Ratchet feel like a truly living and breathing animal.
@Marav Reviews Ratchet & Clank ain't coming to PC, since ratchet and clank games have weird coding that makes them practically impossible to port.
I remember people making screenshots of that one tree in Pokemon Sword and Shield.
For me immerssion IS the most important thing in a game , but graphics don't matter as much as atmosphere.
THIS. THANK YOU. I'm so sick of these people purposely going out of their way to find the lack of stupid little details, then comparing it to something like RDR2 and judging the whole game based ENTIRELY on that. IT'S A GAME ABOUT FIGHTING LITETAL GODS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE FOCUSING ON A GOD DAMN TREE. Something like RDR2 needs these details because it's an open world game, at any time the player could decide to do stuff like fishing or hunting with different purposes depending on their current situation, like getting food or animal skins to sell, that's why actions like that are so detailed. There is absolutely no point in adding falling tree physics to a hack and slash where your only objective is to kill hordes of enemies no matter what.
I guess we should watch rid of audio and special effects along with color since that doesn't effect gameplay either right?
@@mmbleachtasty6121 …..
Those aren’t pointless details he was talking about game relation
Agree
Actually fun fact theres a lumberjack which cuts down a tree in rdr2 and it’ll fall and kill you if your in the way ofc
Yea nakeyjakey video on RDR2, had some good ol criticism about what they should’ve added forward but tbh the video was more or so about freedom in rockstar newer games. Ah people comparing completely separate games who amazing.
I didn't even knew this was going on, but I agree, people reviewing games bc of lack of pointless details just feels like a waste of time, they should definitely touch grass, I think they don't clip through that
This video ages better every year. People mock new games for the smallest of things.
I'd say mostly agree. Alot of tiny details don't affect these types of games. I think the only time some of these complains are justified if they are open world games that have these features in previous titles. Like for example far cry 2 compared to 5.like linear games it doesn't matter cuz ur already put of that zone. Open world games you tend to see semiliar stuff alot
This dude is one of my favorite creators in the platform no cap (btw I think the ea skate series deserves a video, there a ps3 emulator where you can play all the games)
It's like Karens who complain that their fresh apple, that has been hand-picked by gardeners, cared and tended to for years and correctly bred so that it has a sweet but not too sweet taste, is slightly more red than they wanted it to be.
crowbcat when the main character's ball sweat isn't rendered in the new release of a game.
My philosophy for this kinda stuff is that if it’s not there, I don’t notice but if it is, it’s a kinda cool addition that serves no purpose