Don't Over Expose CLog or RAW on the Canon C200
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2019
- If you are over exposing CLog3 when shooting in Canon RAW Light on the Canon EOS C200 Cinema Camera, you are destroying your image quality. So, don't over expose CLog or RAW on the C200.
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I think ETTR with raw video especially became a really popular way (to the masses) of exposing due to the BMCC 2.5k. On that camera, ETTR was a great way of exposing and I think it has influenced users with other camera systems as a default way of exposing. You exhibit here why it’s important to learn each and every camera to know the proper way of exposing. Great work Carlos!
🙏🏽👊🏽👍🏽🎥 that is such a great point, what works with one camera system doesn't necessarily translate to another. Thanks Tyler!
Completely agree. I don't let anything over 80IRE in CLOG and set middle grey just under 40.
Your dope CLo! Love your tutorials!
Hi there, thanks for making the video. I am confused though. Your base exposure is F1.4 which everyone would consider wide open on an a very fast lens, and your over exposure by 3 stops, is F4. You are closing the Iris/aperture down when you go in this direction.
exactly, and this probably balanced by upping the iso value. if you're decreasing exposure by changing the aperture but you're still increasing the exposure by upping the iso you're quadrupling the iso value with every step. let's say you're at ISO 100 at f/1.4 than you're at ISO 400 at f/2 with +1 exposure. ISO 1600 at f/2.8 with +2 expsoure and ISO 6400 at f/4 with +3 exposure.
in this case i would conclude the exposure isn't causing the lack of contrast and colour info, the ISO value is.
@@rudyjilisen Correct. This was a bizarre video. I'm puzzled why he did not set the "correct" exposure at f/4, leave the ISO at 800 untouched and simply open the lens to f/2.8 for +1 stop and f/1.4 for +2 stops. There is a HUGE difference between clipping your Highlights and bringing them back (colour information scavenged from the non-clipped channels) and overexposing, but staying under the clip point. Also, this was CLOG3? WTF? Everyone knows you get +2 stops more DR with CLOG2.
Thank you thank you!
Could you make a video where you show your hole process how you expose properly? and putting that in post
sure.
Nice work thanks
Thank you
@Carlos Quintero, huge fan of your work. Are the over exposed videos also missing focus completely? Not sure if the other comments mention that. Also, "proper exposure" is like saying add the "right amount" of salt to your food. Too subjective. I keep the WFM between 20 to 90 when I shoot with the main subject at about 80. Would love your expertise here please. Thanks!
Hey Carlos, thanks for you great vids. I had a question to ask you. My experience with raw light in the C200 has been that Canon Log 2 is just unusable due to the noise level in the shadows. I know it's preserving the most DR, but the noise level is crazy. When I change to Log3 in PrPro tab with a 709 Color Space, it looks beautiful. What's been your experience with Canon Log 2? Thanks man. Again, really appreciate your content.
Great Video! Would love a light meter tutorial as can’t find much else on CZcams
We'll add it to the list. thanks!
Carlos Quintero Thankyou
Hi
I've bought R6
Put Clog3
Zebra 1 99
Zebra 2 35
Is it build in exponometer
What did you call a light meter?
Should it be set on zero
Does it show 18% gray
But I use polarazing ND
You said do not use any at all
So need to close aperture?
What IRE value should you expose 18% grey to for clog and clog3? For correct exposure. Can you trust the in-camera exposure meter?
What’s your recommendation for exposing c-log on the canon eos r?
Hi Carlos. What ISO was the camera at? Not overexposing under controlled lighting with low ISOs might be ok, but for run n gun situations i.e. wedding receptions, night events might be better with exposing to the right?
I used the native ISO (800) and you're right in that we all have to make decision in real time based on what we're shooting. Because who cares if we blow highlights but capture what is important and matters in a run-and-gun situation...it would be worse if you saved the highlights but lost exposure on the bride. 😉
So what did you change to get the eoverexposure? Nd, shutter angle ? The bokeh looks about the same so how can it be at f4 , longer focal length?
Thanks for posting this, it's super helpful! Have you done any tests on a black background though? Or when you're exposing for a darker image for a night scene when you'd prefer to have skin tones -1 stop under? I've had the C200 for a couple of years now and I still find the shadow still get noisey in situations like that
i have, in fact I have a high ISO video on the C200 that might help. But the bottom line is that if you want clean shadows out of the C200 in low light situations, you need to lower the ISO to 400 if you can.
What IRE value is the correct exposure for Canon RAW?
Wow man thanks. Do you have any videos like this for red?
there is a series in the works...
But what about shooting a correct exposure on iso 200? (2 stops lower than base). Does that affect contrast and color as well?
I should make a video on that. What happens is that the camera's dynamic range is shifted toward protecting the dark areas of the image, which really means you have to pay closer attention to the highlights because they will blow out a lot faster without any roll-off. The trade is that dark areas will be rich and dark without muddiness or noise.
Hi Carlos. Out of topic for this video, but I usually do run and gun shooting and use auto-focus. I am one man team :) My 2 lenses are Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 and sigma 24 - 70mm 2.8. I use shotgun mic attached to camera but very often I pick up auto-focus noise from the lenses. Do you have any experience with this or maybe advice for very very quiet lens?
Unfortunately all EF lenses have Lound motors. Once they give us a camera with an RF mount and FF it will be the biggest leap forward in helping this issue.
@@carlosq00 exactly what I was afraid off. And thank you very much, I really appreciate your answer and great videos you produce.
Thanks for the test! I am curious as to what you did to change the exposure? Did you use the internal NDs, ISO, shutter or did you actually relight the scene? Just because going from 1.4 to 2 and so forth is actually underexposing the image by one stop , not overexposing. No offence, just trying to understand what you did here.
yeah no problem. No NDs...locked the camera settings to expose properly for f/1.4 then added light to increase the exposure one stop at a time. So if the camera is set to expose for f/1.4 and I meter the scene for f/2.0 I am effectively over exposing by one stop.
Carlos Quintero thanks for the explanation, that makes sense!
So if you didn't change the f stop wouldn't it be clearer to just write 1, 2, 3 + stops of light. And I don't doubt the test but increasing lighting for 3 lights would surely alter the lighting of her face. Like the bounce of extra light would reduce overall shadows and contrast.
Only used one 💡
Right, that confused me as well.
Hey Carlos, good video bro! Did you use lumetri to pull down the exposure or adjust the raw clips themselves? From my experience it is a huge benefit to adjust the raw clips themselves. I always aim for proper exposure on the c200 in camera, with the only exception being area's with a ton of shadows/blacks them I will usually go about 1 stop over. I have found that the noise in the shadows on clog 2 to be pretty bad and this helps alleviate it by keeping the last stop in the shadows empty as possible.
👊🏽🙏🏽 I don’t use Premier for color and do all of the color correction and grading in Resolve - @mondobytes is my Adobe Premiere GoTo resource
I see the same on the 1DX MARK II. If I slightly underexpose the picture is broken and you cannot save it. Especially on the 120P Slomotion mode.
Would your correct exposure in this testing correspond to an 18% gray card registering 34.3% on the C200's WFM as recommended in the Canon training series for shooting Clog3?
The real issue is actually the apex of this series which in short is our limited monitoring options more in the series but we all need to understand the limitations of our current monitor options.
Doesn't the RAW file end up in Clog 2 anyway, even though you're choosing clog 3 in the settings?
yes and that is a fundamental problem with the C200.
Q Gang! at what IRE do you usually expose the key side of the skin tones? for caucasian, and also darker skin tones,
Great insight, it really is a dramatic change in contrast in the skin tones, the 1 stop is usable in certain situations but, more, i was astounded at how much it degraded the depth of the skin tonality
As always on point!
I’m going to publish an IRE video with samples from various skin tones. I usually stick with 54-58 IRE regardless of skin tone and it works out well because of how skin reflects 💡
@@carlosq00 i was not off when shooting, puting zebras at 50 55 ire! nice to know, what tends to happen even if i have a small amount of noise, when i render the video after graded, as almost no noise in prores 422, when outputting in h264, even at heavier noise, it completely disappears.
that IRE video will be very welcomed
This explanation was clear and concise. By the way, what camera and lens did you use to shoot your talking head shots? @ 0:06
Thanks!
I shot this on the RED Weapon with a 50mm CNE prime. Thanks again.
So if I get an atomos shinobi and use the false color to make sure nothing over exposes will I be safe? I shoot a lot of run and gun which means I don't have time for color charts and the like.
Yes, if you are not clipping the highlights or crushing the blacks in false color you will be safe and that will also ensure that you have enough light on your point of interest.
@@carlosq00 awesome! Thanks for these videos!! Keep them coming! They are extremely helpful!
do you have a video on your process to expose correctly?
yes, here it is. czcams.com/video/27AYpqpyzGw/video.html this will be updated in the future to move it along but the idea and content is all valid.
Nice visuals bro can you do the same test with the canon eos r????? So we can get the most out of clog
You do it!
👊🏽🙏🏽 in the making 😉
Carlos Quintero Thanks as always 🙏
Carlos, gracias por el video. Hay varios aspoectos que no tengo claro: Has basado to la exposición en el F, y la correcta exposición no solo depende de la apertura. Según tu video, vas cerrando el iris y SI NO DAS MAS PODER A LA LUZ,entonces, me imagino que compesas COMPESAS CON EL ISO. Lo correcto seria dar mas poder a las luces para mantener el iso abajo. Tener 1.4 te permite mantener la iso abajo, PERO, la apertura no es solamente en función de la exposición, si no que primordialmente para tener una profundiad de campo deseada, y a partir de eso, defines tu apertura. Y ese es otro problema que te esta pasando, que tu modelo NO ESTA EN FOCO, el foco esta mas atras de los ojos, (fijate en el cabelllo en el F4 y veras que está completamente en foco) asi que lo que estas mostrando es el abuso del ISO y una imagen desenfocada.
Ahora, otra pregunta: Cuel es tu primer paso para definir tu exposición? el ISO 800 por ser "Nativo"?
This is not low light conditions. Ettr is only recommended in low light where there is noise. Redo the test in low light.
How is f 1.4 proper exposed compared to 2.8 its 2 stop under if u exposure it at 2.8 for a exposure of 1.4.
Here is a detailed explanation czcams.com/video/ZC_WTlOEdRk/video.html
Does this apply to only C200? Does it apply on Canon EOS R CLog too?
I need to test this before I can answer it...but that will surely be added to the EOS R series.
That I found out after 2 months with the camera.
I hear you...
Well. I think it depends on purpose. Just like with photography underexposed or overexposed images creating a different creative outlooks. Play with it I would say. There is no perfection in this life 😀
true, if someone wants or needs to ruin their image and bake in something like over exposure...none of what I cover in this video applies.
@@carlosq00 there is nothing like a ruined within arts 🎨 It's just different point of view it taste ;-)
After seeing this there'll be no ETTR for me. Shaniah's skin tones are so flawless--it would be a crime to expose her to the right. Great video, Carlos, and instructive!
Are you using the Canon LUTs for this test?
I have two batches, one with the Canon LUTs and another with my own...this test shows the better of the two which happens to be my own.
I'd be interested to purchase a LUT package for the C200 if you ever make one for sale, there are so few LUTs for the C200.
@@carlosq00 yeah I don't like the Canon LUTs at all
This test doesn't make sense... of course you start losing contrast and texture when you turn up an artificial keylight.
What you're saying is exactly why I showed this in the video. People all over YT recommend over exposing to avoid noise or ETTR which is a mistake.
Pixel peepers like ourselves would notice this, but no client/average joe ever would. I appreciate your attention to detail but the results are negligible overall.
Some clients are more sophisticated than others so I’ll agree on that.
😉
I am not sure I understand your methodology here. When you say over expose by 2 stops at F2.8 while the correct exposure is F1.4, do you mean you increased the brightness on the model's face by two stops through adding more light and still shot the "over-exposed" picture at F1.4?
yes
Thanks
Fake..at 4:25 look at her eyes, there is a difference in pupils which means that the light is changed
Are you talking about the side by side shot I put the exposure difference on each shot because YES the light Changed to show how Over Exposure doesn’t help the image
@@carlosq00 But wouldn't another lighting situation affect the overall look of the image? The skin would automatically lose some contrast...
so.. you changed lightining, aperture and focused on her ear. no good for testing exposure, sorry.
yeah man this dudes a clown