ARE VINTAGE SUBS BETTER? REL Classic '98 Subwoofer Review
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- A well integrated subwoofer can bring all kind of benefits to your system? I discuss the performance of 3 REL subwoofers, the modern T7X, retro Classic '98, and my vintage Strata III. But which one is best for you?
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Related reviews:
REL T7X Review (+ REL setup procedure)
• REL T7X Sub Review (+ ...
Time stamps:
0:00 Intro
2:19 Design & features
3:54 Technical insights
6:04 Sound quality
8:30 Setup tips
10:58 Conclusion
I’ve recently purchased the REL 98 Classic. It’s my first ever sub and I have to say it’s been one of the best upgrades I’ve made to my system. They were on offer for a limited time at £999 around Christmas time and I honestly think is been worth every penny. I have a relatively modest system which to me now sounds incredible with the REL in play. My system is Naim Uniti Nova & Sonus Faber Minima Amator 11. Needless to say the Bass now goes lower, it’s fuller but without bleeding into the mids. It’s hard to describe but the soundstage seems bigger, more enveloping. It’s also added a touch of extra body and depth to my system but without sacrificing any details. Absolute result. Very happy owner 👍😊
Great its does wonders indeed. If you take the sub away you cant go back to the old situation. Then you know you're on the right way. Enjoy and never sell it.
Two words. BK electronics. They made Subs for REL from the 90s onwards, and now sell their own direct to the public. Great designs, real furniture grade wood veneers, good drivers, high and low level inputs, come with excellent cables....and cost half the equivalent REL sub. Also fantastic customer service.
And if you buy more than one they will match the veneers.
I have no connection to the company, but own four of their subs and think they are fantasric value.
I am also looking at BK Subs great value for money .
I agree. They still look like the old school subs and are great value for money 😊
@@gregsmall8774 I certainly recommend them. I have their monster Monolith Plus in my AV system, twin Double Gems in my main stereo setup and an XLS 200 in my upstairs small room setup.
If I was buying again for my main system, I would probably go for twin xxls 400, but at the time the double gem with twin 10 inch drivers each, fitted the taller, narrower, form factor I wanted.
If you phone them they will usually be able to advise what would work best for your needs. Good luck. Once you add a sub (or two ) you never go back. I now have floorstanders with twin 10 inch drivers each, but I still prefer to use the Double Gems as well.
My two rel subs are 24 years old still going strong 💪
Mine four!
I have the rel strata 5. I bought this new in the 90s and it’s been used pretty much every day since. It’s the only piece of kit that has stayed with me over the years, and not been subject to “upgradeitis”. Back in the day it was for av use but in recent times as my speakers have become smaller I use it more when 2 channel music listening. A great nod to rel on the sustainability front and just shows quality kit is worth the price.
I’ve never used subs in my system, until that is 6 years ago when I extensively toured my local bricks and mortar dealers looking to upgrade my floorstanders and one dealer introduced me to the enhanced musical enjoyment of having subs in your system. My hifi has to fight for its right to be in our 21 feet by 18 feet by 7.5 feet lounge. So persuading the aesthetics committee, AKA the wife to accept the addition of subs was, an all out battle. As was the struggle between positioning for best sonic performance and discrete aesthetics. My floorstanders are 108 inches apart, measured from the front centre of each cabinet. My T9X subs sit on the inside edge of each floorstander and are barely visible as my purpose built media cabinet is positioned between the subs. Surprisingly it works well on 2 levels. It appeases the wife and works sonically, although I’m certain there are more sonically beneficial positions. More recently I’ve added a 3rd T9X to my system. Located centrally close to the rear wall, or the wall behind the listening position. After dialling in all 3 subs, to a point where they’re barely ticking over, I’ve achieved a superbly smooth and even bass distribution which blends seamlessly with my main speakers.
More recently, one of my 4 year old single ended monoblocks died. So both have been sent to a local audio doctor to be put right. So, I’m currently employing a balanced stereo power amp to drive my system: I’ve had to disconnect the subs. Connecting subs using the high level connection with a balanced amp is a recipe for disaster and as this a temporary arrangement I’ve not bothered to use the low level connectors. What this experience has shown me though is just how good my floorstanders are, unaided.
I have recently purchased a pair of REL S510 subs to compliment my Apogee Duetta Signature Ribbon speakers after evaluating a single S510 before purchase.
I am using a pair of ARC VM220 mono block valve amps fed by an Ayon CD5S DAC using Tidal.
The results were simply transformational with improvements to soundstage (increase) sound cohesion and above all enjoyment of the "missing" lower register. Well recorded electronic music often provides deep rhythmic bass and the REl's are able to fully convey texture as well as low bass notes. The S 510 integrate very well with the Apogees and couldn't be happier.
These were quite expensive but I needed subs that could keep up with the speed of the Apogees.
I can honestly confirm the marketing claims from REL's John Hunter are true. And it's very hard to step back when you remove the subs!
PS a pair of subs is worth the extra money!
@@brianrowland9993 thank you for sharing your experiences 😊
Dusted off my My Musical Fidelity 1 Final Edition and Castle Chesters after a hiatus of 20 years. They traveled across the Atlantic pond with me and I am so glad I held on to them. Besides being able to warm my hands on the amp last month, it brought on waves of nostalgia. Like you Tarun, this kit was acquired in the 90's. It was the best that I could afford then. But now the Castles sound anemic in the lower frequency department. (Yes, my spelling has been forcibly Americanized) I am not sure if it is my hearing or my inability to find a spot for the speakers against a wall. So your sub videos have come at an opportune time. I wrote to REL asking for a match to my amp/speaker and behold, they replied. T5X they said for my kit and room. I know I have opened Pandora's box. After so many years busy with other priorities like raising a family, I find myself with time to enjoy the finer things in life. Hi Fi is like Stone Soup, isn't it. And I will enjoy the journey as well as the destination if there is such a thing as a destination. I will probably end up replacing everything, one bit at a time. So what do you think of my first move. Many thanks for your though provoking videos.
Thx. Great to learn about your experiences 👍
I have 2 REL 5x subs to go with my alchris ar10 speakers I love the results I get its totally changed my set up , It’s just more listenable nice and relaxing and very comfortable like a pair off old slippers.
I have two 5x’s for my Sonus Faber Sonetto 3’s. They create a wall of sound. 👍😎
I always enjoy your very thoughtful and precise reviews! Thanks for your insight! Reminds my me of my younger days reading the audio magazines! Best to you, sir!
Thank you kindly my friend 😊👍
Thank you, Tarun for the best sub review I've seen/read. Your general comments about subwoofers hit all the salient points.
In my little room, stand mount speakers are the only viable alternative. After much consideration, I added a sub to the system. The result was a wider, deeper and yes taller soundstage. On recordings which contain information about the recording venue, there are clearly more clues about that venue.
My advice, for what it's worth, would be to at least audition a sub if you're using stand mounts.
So since my speakers are out in my room a couple feet from the wall, I moved my entertainment center out and put the sub behind the entertainment center. That placed the sub middle of my room and middle of my speakers and it blends so well! The KC62 by Kef sounds amazing if you have not used it I recommend giving it a try.
A sub really helps with speakers that are lacking in low bass. I recently got a second one exactly the same model I already had. I put them inside to my left and right speakers. Even more immersive. You can run them at lower levels when you have 2 so you get more overhead.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Thank you for your review Tarun - I have been very happy with my REL S/5, even when combined with larger ATC 50 tower speakers. Yes, I went for the Umik mic too, and eventually came to a nearfield position, about 1m 25 from my seat. I was also surprised when finding a position just moving your head forward and back from the main speakers can make a low frequency suddenly almost disappear - when checking the physics, it became less surprising of course.
Thank you for sharing your experiences 😊
Excellent, and I was just about to start looking for a sub to integrate into my two-channel system.
That is great 👍
I always enjoy your reviews, thanks for the hard work!
Thank you kindly 😊👍
As always a very good review. I have been using the same Definitive Technology Powerfield 1500 sub for nearly 30 years. It is a 15" sealed box with a 250 WRMS Class AB built in amp. I use the high level input/output as the unit has a great 36dB per octave low-pass x-over from 50-100Hz and a 12dB High-pass. I agree with you that a good sub, well integrated does improve the sound stage and the overall performance of a system. BTW, I have played Gleneagles Kings course. Wow!
Thank you. I look my dad to Gleneagles for his birthday. We had a great couple of days. The Queen’s course is beautiful. We were lucky you play the Kings course just before a European ladies tour event. The condition was something to behold 😊👍
As a Rel owner I enjoyed the comparison video. Thanks for sharing the Adam Ben Ezra track for exercising the lower octaves. One that I've enjoyed and is my current go to is Brian Bromberg's All Blues.
Thank you. That is a great track too 😊
My experience and use of a sub was transformative. Even with speakers that have great base performance and extension, I just can’t listen now and enjoy as much without a sub. I have a high pass set up with a REL T5x and a few stand mounts I alternate. I have enjoyed the synergy and soundstage it brings most of all. The new Buchardt sub is something want to try out as well. Thanks for another outstanding review.
Thanks for the review Tarun. A good musical subwoofer has never been cheap (despite the internet pushing cheap ones), but it is an investment that can serve you for years if you choose correctly. The review between the three REL models was informative. 🙂
Thank you 👍
Tarun, I have you to thank for my REL T5x. Would never have bought it otherwise as I thought it was a betrayal of the “stereo” pursuit. At the end of the day, my pursuit is enjoyment of music. The DALI Menuet SE nudged me towards the REL. The DALI’s sing beautifully the mids and highs but lacked in the lows. The REL taught me that a sub need only fill the void without changing what I love about the DALIs. Long speech but still understates the improvement and realisation that the sub brought. My question to you - would dual subs make it better? John Darko think so.
Thank you Jeremy. Two well positioned sub will always be better than one but one well positioned sub is better that two poorly positioned ones 😊
Hi Tarun. An excellent review. I have a REL Quake with my KEF Q5’s & I can’t imagine going subless in the future. Everything sounds better…. throughout the entire sonic range and it does this on all types of music. I can’t enjoy music in my current system without my sub🎵🎶😎
Thank you. I appreciate you sharing 👍
nice review. In my set up I have been using 2× REL Storm III in a stereo configuration for years. I have a fairly large listening room and the T9x didn't do what I wanted to hear. I missed the warmth and fullness using the T series, which were certainly not bad, but I was also disappointed by the questionable appearance. Over the years I have replaced the standard cables with better ones. Recently, both Storms have a new amazing sound thanks to Stack Audio's Auva speaker isolators. It's amazing what these feet do with speakers. Living without REL Subs is almost impossible now.
Thank you for sharing Jakob 👍
Really good stuff Tarun. Thank you very much!
Much appreciated 😊👍
Great review, I’ve never had a good stereo without subs , yes a pair, I tried one sub once but couldn’t live with it, mind you I’m not a huge bass fan but what it brings to soundstage and midrange is what I like most.
Thank you for sharing 😊
I have never heard well integrated subwoofer in stereo set and powerful accurate bass with music. But what it bring to soundstage I like more.
Great review. For me I love how the sub brings out the first octave. Fuller and meatier sound. My sub is a sealed direct servo 12” from GR research of Texas. Same as Rythmik. Faster controlled sound. Umph enough. Would like to install a DSP-something that with an active microphone would change the gain, depending on choice of genre of music. Jazz, pop, rock or electronic music.
Thank you for sharing 👍
Nice review. Thx. I use 2 REL Q150 Mk2 and they are nearby eatch speaker (Harbets SHL5+). They make a huge improvement overall the sound. More sound stage, way better low end obviously and medium /high have a little more texture. They are powered via a wifi plug (alexa), so I can switch them on an off with a word. Those old sub are not that fast but they do a very nice job to my ears. And they go deeeeeep (19khz).
Thx 😊
I came for the product placement by today's sponsor, cool🙃
Hi Sir, I have an older sub, not REL, but it does great justice to the overall music and soundscape, no doubt about it! I am planning this next month to purchase either 2 REL t5 x’s or 2 Rythmic L12’s. Both same price but the Rythmic use Servo controlled drivers and the amp section has a ton of controls over the REL’s. I will audition both. I have a well treated but small room 10’ by 12’. It’s all about the room!!!
Thx for sharing 😊
Very nice review 👍🏼
Thank you 👍
As always, a great review, thank you. As for your question about our experiences, I'm forced to place my sub in the very corner of the room close to the right speaker. I was shocked how directional the sub is, despite it being set up to 40Hz crossover with 24dB slope. It's so easy to locate the sub sound and the sound is completely out of balance. I can't go any lower in terms of crossover because I have a huge dip at 40Hz with my speakers the way they're positioned (hence the sub). I spent countless hours with Room EQ Wizard and even Dirac Live, to no avail.
Beware, sub placement is no picnic.
Thx for sharing 😊
I love my Stadium III. It adds wonderful ‘body’ to music, even when augmenting full range tower speakers.
Great 👍
Great description 👍
Thank you 👍
I have a dedicated room in my basement that serves double duty as a home theater and a stereo listening space. I have 3 REL HT series subs which were calibrated via Dirac live. I should mention I also have 2 Martin Logan subs also calibrated by Dirac, my JBL Synthesis processor can independently cal 5 subs. All 5 are sealed. They do a great job of integrating lf that is clean and tight for home theater and music.
Cool 😎
A good sub like a REL will be one of the best addition to your system
I agree 😊
Thank you for another very useful and thought-provoking review. I am looking to replace my old Rel Strata 5 with a fast single or pair of subs to accompany Magneplanar 1.7i speakers. I am also underwhelmed by the lack of natural wood finishes although note the ATC C1 and B&W BD-D range are exceptions. It would be interesting to hear your assessment of one of these subs or maybe the Monitor Audio Anthra series, especially any of these with the 10 or 12 inch drivers which are claimed to be fast.
For any Magnepan owners, it really is worthwhile trying the speakers through a high pass filter, say 100Hz depending on the crossover slope, and a sub(s) on a low pass output. This is really interesting and seems to reveal yet more detail in the midrange as a result of the speaker producing less low base. My Parasound amp has 12dB/octave (shallow roll off) filters; experimenting with these has been quite an education including using sub test tones from CZcams. This arrangement also stops the ‘buzz’ in one of 1.7i speakers (a fault at 40-50Hz sometimes experienced but not audible on many recordings). Set on the usual high level input, the Strata 5 just spoils the base from the Magnepans as one might expect…..so the T7x is very interesting.
Thx 😊
I got the Adam Audio T10s sub to complement my T5v studio monitors. I enjoyed the clarity of the T5vs but missed the bass weight of PMC FB1s I used to own. This sub puts it back making the 5 inch speakers sound much bigger. The sound can quickly be ruined if you turn the gain up too far causing boom but keep it at 25 percent or so it is good. A welcome upgrade.
Thank you for sharing 😊
Great review as always...
Thank you. Much appreciated 😊👍
Classic 98 ,between a pair of Wharfedale Linton's. A wonderful sounding trio. Those "marshmallow" lows the 98 pumps out are addicting .
Thx for sharing 😊
Four pairs of vertically stacked Quad ELS 57s need help below 80 Hz, a quarter wave stereo transmission line subwoofer that utilises the new version of the KEF B139 (200 W handling) does a fine job. The subwoofer cabinet is the coffin design from the T-line speakers website, a home built LPF takes care of the filtering.
Cool 😎
Ok well you asked for it lol. For many years I had a single Eclipse TD316 SW in the system. I got this pretty cheap in the late nineties. At this point I’d abandoned ‘hi-fi’ for an AVR so it was mostly for booms when watching fillums. When my kids grew up and work became less full on I came back to hi-fi (about 10 years ago) and got a decent amp. I liked the sound of the Eclipse but they don’t go very loud at only 60W. Luckily I found another one on fleabay- so now I have two running in ‘stereo’ which I highly recommend. That’s still only 120w overall but as others have said SWs are best in tickover mode adding subtle depth and this they do really well in our 4x3.5 meter lounge (which is open at both ends so no reflective side walls). Room correction is done in Roon and now they have FIR it’s very effective (to the point that I am considering an A/D converter to get my turntable into the digital domain! Sacrilege!)
Eclipse engineering and design as you know is amazing but idiosyncratic. These have a very innovative upwards firing design and look a bit sci fi, but are small enough to be hidden behind furniture in the corners of the room (they are almost impossible to find these days and few want such low power SWs. Eclipse abandoned the design for the Mk2 version which was a standard black box). While the hi-fi has to share space with A/V I won’t be changing. If I get a dedicated music room at some point I might consider ‘upgrading’.
Love the synergy between my REL 98 classic and JBL L100 75TH powered by my Luxman 595ASE.
Great 👍
I have only ever used one subwoofer. A Beolab 2 paired with my Beolab 8000 speakers. It transformed the system and can't imagine not having it.
Its not like others I have heard as part of an AV system, one does not even notice its presence until it is not being used.
As others have found, it enables the main speakers to work better as the small drivers in the 8000s do not have to work so hard at moving low frequency air. (The Beolabs have both high and low pass filters to enable this).
Like you, I chose to place the sub away from the corner of the room and it lives between the 8000s, away from the wall. Probably my neighbours in the apartment below are grateful.
For all that it is not an AV device, when watching movies with a lot of low frequency energy and effects, it does make my sofa move and it does have an effect on my body cavities.
So yes, if asked, I would always recommend using an appropriate subwoofer in a HiFi system.
Thx for sharing 😊
Thank you very much for these videos, they are very useful and interesting for those of us who do not know in depth what to choose and why. A question if you allow me: what is your opinion of the Canton Crhono 502.3 desktop speakers? thank you so much, regards from México.
Thank you. I haven’t tried those 😊
I like a good sub for the way it improves soundstage and imaging (with a splitter) as well as filling the souund.
Cool 😎
When I get my main speakers EQed in the room, I’ll think about adding sub-woofers to my two channel setup. I have one connected to my AV receiver and it is great for special effects. I have had great difficulty integrating subs with my full range speakers, and usually wind up using the lowest possible crossover point at very low volume so as not to distort the music by adding a ‘bass-head’ feel to it. Neither do I like ported cabinets as my room shakes at their resonant frequency. Sealed cabinets deliver the bass sound that I prefer.
Thx 😊
I use 2 REL HT- 1508's for my great room. One is in the sweet spot the other is set in corner for the max bass. Both are set at the 9 O'clock volume position and one can not hear them unless they hit a room resonance which is around 32HZ. Listening room one at PS Audio uses one in the back.
Thx for sharing 😊
I have a pair of REL T5. Love the sound, hate the looks. Hifi is a game of compromises and a good sub or two can mitigate some of those compromises. Stand mount speakers have fantastic imaging and staging but lack punch, dynamics, and a low frequencies. Klipsch Heresy is a very live sounding, dynamic speaker that sounds amazing with low powered tube amps but lacks low end grunt. With my JBL L112s and Spendor S8e's the subs open up the stage a little but I don't really need them. Now I just use the JBLs without subs and I'm totally happy. As a fan of vintage speakers and real wood veneers, I wish the Classic 98' had been around when I invested in my subs.
Thx 😊
Hey Tarun ' I use to use active subs ' with 2 channel stereo but my rooms have been small and I get these crazy bass Nulls and phase/timing is so tuff to get 💯 So I would keep the volume very low of active sub now ' I am more into tower speakers that can get down to 30hz in room Bass (Dynaudio) thanks Tarun always a joy ! 😊
Did you say EMF Electronic Mechanical Force ????
Thanks Tee-Jay. I appreciate you sharing your experience. EMF - Electromotive force. Take care buddy 😊👍
Yeh I auditioned some Emit 30s recently and boy do they go low! I just need a room now lol.
@mike_lowndes almost done with my video review of emit 50s they go down to a conservative 30hz ! Addicted to audio (webpage) measured below 25hz in room Bass ' dynaudio builds some crazy bass woofers and yeah for rooms smaller than 15ftx20ft I would reccomend Emit 30s !
Very informative thanks for posting Tarun. I have pair of Strata 111’s in one room and a pair of Strata 5 in another. For me no system is complete without a sub and two is definitely better than 1 (as per YuengsNwings comment). Even my large floor standers benefit from subs its not just a case of using them with small stand mounts. Other than a failed LCD display failure on one of the 5’s the vintage models have been very reliable. I would love to try a more modern (faster) REL but I am always hearing about reliability issues with modern China produced RELS.
Thx. I am not aware of any reliability issues 😊
I bought the REL t7x in white and I am quite happy with it, like you. But I keep wondering how the REL S510 would sound in my system.
Good review. I just hooked up a SVS micro3000 to my Proacs and enjoy the new found bottom end. That said, It's hard to do an exciting subwoofer review. When I see most of them I feel like I do when one of my wife's old women friends pull out the pictures of their grandkids. I wonder which one is an incipient school shooter.
Ouch Jim. Let’s hope none of them 😊
I believe that a passive radiator is a type of port. They became popular in the '70s to reduce port chuff.
I think it’s fair to say that by any metric the T7/9x are considered the best SQL subs ever made for their price bracket. I haven’t heard them all but I’ve heard a lot - and this is widely held logic in reviewer land. Therefore by your specific metric (and to support the belief that a subwoofer is the most impactful upgrade you can EVER make to your system for the money), the T7x should be considered for outstanding classification.
Also you didn’t mention the specific track by Adam Ben Ezra 😂 - assuming just the excellent pin drop album.
Great review as always, and yes more subwoofer content (both specific coverage and including their influence in other equipment reviews) are always welcome.
I have a Rel Stentor III, it has to be in my system, more space, details, air. It’s as important as my main speakers.
Subs are underestimated!
I use 2 small B&W subs. One at the side wall and one at the speaker wall. Like this there are less mods all over the room (rather big open 90m2). Also the crossover frequency is low (less than 45Hz), and the gain low as well, as I am using a 2way florstander from ProAc. I find, just when you begin to hear the sub, is about right… However the gain in musicality is all worth it! 😃
Cool 😎
Hello, i did enjoy your excellent video. I have owned a Strata and traded up to a (used)Stadium 2. Although it works well and has good integration its getting older and I wonder if it isn't as good as a newer one.
I'm like you and not keen on the new look so your research has been very interesting for me.
Thank You.
Thx for sharing 😊
If you can find and accommodate a Rel Stadium 111 (2 x stereo pair) you will be transport ed to another dimension .
Great review style, first time hear. Subcription added. :)
Much appreciated. I hope you enjoy the content 👍
My REL Stampede is still going strong after several decades of use and still gives my sound the benefits a sub brings. However despite the improvements a modern design bring to the party, I still like that I can tune in my Stampede with the supplied remote control. Pity the new designs don’t offer this facility.
Understood 😊
I am interested in a sub solely for the gains in soundstage depth, but worry about being able to "hear" it, ie it not completely integrating with my system. Does placement in the room also affect soundstage quality, or only bass extension?
I'm running two Rel Stampedes with my Mission V63 and never liked the sound when putting them on the corners. Using REW and its simulator I ended with one on the back left corner and the other one at about 38% of the right side wall. Crossover at 40hz and volume at 45.
@@albertcastells4630 cool 😎
Ive a couple of items from MCRU. just wondering which type of power block you went for, as I've got the silver version of your block. But after another one with a better cable. Also where did you get your RCA cables from because I cant find the with WBT connectors
Two pieces of Lyngdorf BW-2. They work well with the amp: Lyngdorf TDAI-3400.
Cool 😎
I use REL subs in all my systems - discretely
Use 5 in my main system
Not for blast but for full range sonic integrity
A great solo piano recording resonates in the space of the recorded venue and my room
The subs crossover starting from where the main speakers run out
Volume of the sub set also to believable level to bring out both power and detail
You want a base drum to thump thrillingly
but still sit with the other instruments in space
Thx for sharing 😊
How about break in? I remember first time I ran my rel I had to place it in the middle of the room or it sounded boomy. After some time I could move it to the wall. Easier to setup an better bass performance from a sub and bookshelf then from a big 3-way. Where you not in search for new speakers? Seems you almost change the whole system but the proacs are still there 😂
Hello Tarun thank you for the informative video, I myself am playing with two subwoofers of the open baffle principle after Axel Ridthaler they are very low on efficiencie but very fast and open and they go verry low. Because there are two of them they define the recording space very accurate i think that is an great advantage i wonder did you ever try the use of two subwoofers?
Thx for sharing. I have run two sub before but it doesn’t work in my current room 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 that is another advantage of dipole subwoofers they don't load your room like other subs
A sub that allows you to "tune" via a remote-like SVS offers if a valuable tool. Hope you try a couple of them together next.
I can’t accommodate two sub easily 😊
I have a REL T9/X in my system today and prefer it placed slightly off the corner of one of the front walls. Right in the corner just provided too much boom for me.
Me too. Thanks for sharing 👍
Have a pair of ae500's paired with a Sunfire sub.
Sub gives my system GROWWWWLL without being boomy.
Cool 😎
Wonder how the T7X or Classic '98 compares to a Stadium III. Have mine in Rosewood new since 2003 still going strong. Shame REL offers no woodfinish anymore.
Would be cool to compare 😊
How do you connect REL's high gain cable to an Amp like the exposure that have no binding posts?
Either stackable banana posts or direct wire 😊
I got 2 rel subs which I never turn on. I think I have been unable to integrate them into my chain. I listen to 60s & 70s mono vinyls and I think vinyl haven’t got the dynamic range for good bass. Could this be correct?
Integrating subs can be difficult- crossover, gain, and phase, if any of those are not in ideal setting it can make your system worse. I've found integrating a sub in a AV system much easier than a stereo system, as you have level, bass management and time alignment in a AVR system. In a stereo system you have none of this, it's all your doing
Any plans on bringing back the HiFi discussions with Ian ? Just rewatched a couple, really liked those.
I would like to when I get time 😊
I have 2 REL quake subs and they do take my sound to another level without them still good but not as good
Great review. Curious on how the Classic 98 faired with your ProAcs ?
I have the DT8s and am torn between a pair of T5X or Classic 98s.
I preferred the TX7 due to it’s speed and definition with the ProAc 1SCs 😊
Thanks for the reply much appreciated
The Classic 98 could blend in with living room furniture. It's fairly reminiscent of the Cerwin Vega subwoofers in terms of design.
Cool 😎
Wow! Just what i wanted to hear. Great review. Soooo...1 T7/x or two T 5/x?
2 t5/x for sure
Thank you. Depends on priorities and room size 😊
Hi Tarun. It's almost as if you have peeked at my hifi wishlist. Right now, I am looking for a music sub to compliment my GR-Research X-LS Encores. The REL T5x and the Classic 98 are on that list. I was wondering about detail retrieval between the T-series and Classic 98. Other than warmth and transients, are there differences in the amount of information in the lower regions, like vibration of strings and ambient details?
I am not the most analytical listener, but details add to the enveloping nature of music, which I love so much.
My first choice was Rythmik FM8's, but with shipping costs from the US and reports of humming (sometimes) when using a 240 watt power supply is deterring me a bit. Albeit, rumors say that they make some of the best subwoofers for music.
Is Rythmik one of the brands you were thinking of?
Thanks Roy. Rhythmic is a brand worth exploring. In the UK BK Electronics have some good valve alternatives to classic RELs. In fact they used to make them for a spell many years ago 🙂
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Great suggestion. The Double Gem caught my eye. It's very similar to the FM8. Gotta check it out. Cheers.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Great suggestion. The Double Gem looks like something I'd like. Buchardts Sub 10 will soon be released and looks quite interesting also. Cheers.
For some reason I resisted subs. Makes alot of sense to use one.
Worth trying one 😊
Nice review.
I want one!
Btw I think your 4.35 comment is inaccurate. Wiki:
"Passive radiators are used instead of a *reflex port* for several reasons. In small-volume enclosures tuned to low frequencies, the length of the required port becomes very large. They are also used to reduce or eliminate the objectionable noises of port turbulence and compressive flow caused by high-velocity airflow in small ports. In addition, ports have pipe resonances that can produce undesirable effects on the frequency response. To a first-order approximation, the passive radiator works identically to a port."
(Sorry)
Cheers matey
🎵🤫🎵
That description is true but not the complete picture 😊
I have a sub placed directly behind the listening position in a TV/Living room set up. I have found that time alignment is more important for sub placement that phase adjustment and to try to place the sub approximately the same distance from the listening position as the main speakers for seamless blending. Thanks for the review Tarun.
Thank you for sharing Bryan 😊
umm, no "To a first-order approximation, the passive radiator works identically to a port. Passive radiators are tuned by mass variations (Mmp), changing the way that they interact with the compliance of the air in the box."
You'll just love the new 'Red' versions...
I agree about the REL finishing options, the gloss black/white with a ridiculous amount of logo's is horrible and when a manufacturer releases a classic/vintage version it is 9/10 walnut 🙈 nothing wrong with walnut except when you live in scandinavian oak interior 😅
Luckely I´m not in the market for a sub because they drove me mad 🤯 but more finishing options should be available in 2024 for REL, Wharfedale, KLH, Mission, Revival........
It would useful if they had a 3 or 4 wood finish options to cover most bases 😊
I've paired Classic 98's with my walnut-veneered KEF R11 Metas, connecting the high level inputs at the binding posts, in my impeccably appointed -- if I do say so myself -- very large, multi-purpose room. I stream CD-quality or hi-res jazz and classical via a BlueSound Node (130) connected by optical cable to a Denafrips Pontus II, which in turn feeds a NAD M23 through XLR cables. Perhaps the T/x series would perform better at the margins, but black or white wouldn't cut it appearance-wise in such a statement space, while the sonic result of pairing the slightly warm subs with the revealing KEFs is quite pleasant, at least to my ears. The biggest issue these days is the number of poor quality recordings this system lays bare.
Thx 👍
Im using 2 x REL T5x with my proac tablette 10 sigs. sounds amazing to me! I recently bought some proac response sc1 to compare to the 10s, really cant decide, having a harder time integrating the SC's with the subs though. Would love to know your thoughts on the 10 sigs especially compared to the SC1 ? I dont think you have reviewed them ? I have hegel h190 also.
The Tablettes are more for nearfield listening and close to wall placement 😊
yep that makes sense, the tablettes are smaller sounding, more intimate, slightly cleaner(leaner?). I sit close(a very british 13x13ft room). I keep swapping, i love the 1sc also, but might save them for when i have a bigger room.@@abritishaudiophile7314
I have an old (but great) system that has Audiolab 8000A pre-amp with two (100W) 8000P stereo power amps individually bi-amped to my gorgeous Mission 754F, three way jobs. These speakers have competent bass extension anyway. They system has plenty of SPL reserve in my listening room. With a budget of £500 I bought two e-bay KEF KHT2005.2 (10 inch) subwoofers and threw away the integral amps as they run hot then die. I replaced with two (nominally) 250W class D sub amplifiers on the basis that they do not need a fraction of this power but unstressed components sound better IMO. Each 754 sits on top of the sub. The volume and crossover are set low and this allows the bass of the 754's to breath but subtly augmented by the subs. Older source material tends to convey deep bass in mono (if at all) but modern electronic has stereo separation all the way down. I do think that two is better than one and I have to say the Class D amps are very fast, create low sounds that you can feel without fuss or ridiculous reverberation and they stay incredibly cool even when working hard.
Cannot say if this compares anyway near proper £££ kit but it has enhanced my listening experience, particularly in the synth and sampling space - Metronomy, Aphex, Martyn Bennet, Underworld, Stanley Clarke, and the list goes on...
I mention all of this because you can get those KEF subs on e-bay for pennies. The amp will be dead or will die on you (known design "feature") but if the speaker isn't ripped £30 to £50 is good for it and a well made enclosure. I think I picked up the class D amps on Amazon for £150 each.
Great 👍
For the 1st time in 20 years I popped into a HiFi shop, and was looking at many of the smaller speakers and subs, I am not too fond of the branding and logo's on the Rel. On one model it looks like a cabinet handle on the side.
These classic models are visually more appealing, but we now have this preference for two subs, and the larger classic will be great if you are wanting it to sit somewhere looking like furniture, but may well not be so straightforward if your after dual subs simply due to height.
Still struggling with what direction to take myself after 20 years of hifi being in storage. Certainly a lot more WAF options available these days.
Thx for sharing 😊
Interesting. I asked [on one of your older reviews] about a suggestion/recommendation to partner a sub with the Q Acoustics M20, which I bought recently; again, following your review - the M20s are excellent, so I dont know if a sub would add much to the results. I listen 100% to classical music [no gaming, or TV support] in a room that is approx 4m x 7m ..... any advice? Thanks for all assessments.
Thank you 😊
Only other sub I remember you reviewing is the the t7x
That is true 😊
As the recordings change, the sub-behavior changes, and I find myself fiddling with gain and crossover points. I would like to know if sub with app integration is better as u can tweak it from the listening chair. I love having a sub sometimes and I suffer having one most of the time!
Integrating subs can be tricky 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 you are absolutely right. A well integrated sub for Lou Reed will have to be completely redone for Doja Cat!😆
Hi Tarun, REL have advised me that the t7 is ideal for my Exposure 3010 Pre, Monos and room size, so i'm on the look out for 1. other than that I would like to upgrade my Emit 20s to Special 40s
Great 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 picked up a t7x on Saturday. It's sounding great so far I'm hearing lower notes than I did with my out-going Paradigm sub.
I used the advice from the REL support web page. I'll put some more time in to the tweaking.
I got a t7x and got Dynaudios Focus 140s.
Well happy now.
Thinking about upgrading cables now and maybe a change from the Aries Mini streamer.
Here is my list of useful things for sub woofer performance and integration. Extremely well braced cabinets, cast iron speaker baskets, variable phase control, and 1/3 octave EQ from 20to 120 Hz. Ability to play relatively flat up to 300 Hz minimum, enough power to deal with three second peaks. This is my criteria for both audiophile and pro sound reinforcement. On the audiophile usage I have found benefits of using hi level inputs and subs from the amps output, not night and day, but a difference. No sound processor can solve all problems within a room, specially a difficult room. Usually my max boost is 3 db and cuts in frequency 6 db. The best I ever made was a transmission line, which would be ridiculously expensive for a manufacture to market. Cheers from montreal. Where it is snowy and cold right now.😂. Oh thanks for a well done review.
U r doing good job
Thank you 😊
Everyone has it's own taste, IMO all the Rel ST III series are best for stereo
Thx for watching 😊
Bose acoustimass subwoofers make great speaker stands that's all I use them for
Okay…
I still have me rel quake no problems I’ll stick to it still goes real low and roughly £100 on e bay 😅
Cool 😎
The better bang for your buck is to spread the cost of one premium sub across two less expensive subs. Adding a second sub is transformative for smoothing out bass response in a room. While peaks can be tamed with EQ, nothing can be done about nulls other than adding a second sub. Just like not being able to go back after adding one sub, you can’t go back after adding your second. If you’ve got $1000 to spend on a sub, better to get two $500 subs and it’s not even a close comparison. I have a pair of B&W ASW608’s that are $600 apiece and they obliterate the performance of the $1500 B&W ASW10CM in every room I’ve used them in.
Its good that you are putting out this message. I have not done the 2 versus 1 comparison but in two separate room systems its always been better when I added a second sub. I think thats common knowledge now but i guess few will have done the 2 x 500 versus 1 x 1000 test at home.
Hi Tarun, I do not use subwoofer. My old pair of Kef Q900 is pleasant enought for my ears.
How did / do you hook up a single REL to mono blocks?
REL specifically says not to hook them up to a single amp, but to simply buy another subwoofer.
Having upgraded my amps to mono blocks spending more money on a second sub isn’t in my budget.
I have my monoblock on stacked shelves 😊
Arguably, one of the most important features of a sub is the ability to adjust phase. Unlike others, such as Rythmik, REL is a 0 or 180 phase choice. This ties the hands of many people trying to integrate their sub into spaces which require more flexibility. Why is REL so primitive in this regard? I tried for years to get my REL R-328 to work in my room, but the lack of phase adjustment was the issue.
I don’t follow your logic. Having only a 180 switchable phasing removes the need for other adjustments. It’s one or the other. There’s no variance as far as I understand. Interested to learn more if there’s more complexity than that
@@TheDjcarlos67 Variable phase is best, as you can adjust in steps and set what is best, either through your ears or with REW. My Monoprice subs have variable phase.
I feel variable phase would make positioning easier for people who really know what they are doing. RELs view is that it will just make integration more difficult for the majority of their customers 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Rel don't have a clue. They think AVR speakers set to large, high and low level is correct. HAHAHA
@@user-gf7kj5vj3p “REL don’t have a clue”! C’mon man, they clearly do, they have a thriving business built on their knowledge
I haven't compared many subs but did manage to listen to some current REL models in decent setups. I couldn't agree more, @1:28, REL's branding is very showy. It puts me off. But with many fashion labels using their logos as the only visually distinctive design element, I guess this practice is a sign of our times...
The Classic 98 is a lot more subtle 😊