"If the Church has nothing to hide, why oppose the survey ?" Rami Desai, Esther Dhanraj, Jerome Anto
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- čas přidán 14. 11. 2021
- "If the Church has nothing to hide, why oppose the survey ?" Rami Desai, Esther Dhanraj, Jerome Anto & Sharan Setty
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#SurveyChurchToStopConversions #ForcedConversions #Proselytisation #GharWapsi #Article25 #Archbishop #BasavarajBommai
Anti conversion law should be implemented with speed,no more discussing.
Targeted conversions to families and bribing/luring conversions to teens should be banned as they unnecessarily cause pain in the family and many times lead to family breakups. Overall, missionary activities should be framed as 'Anti family' activity or 'Assault on Hindu families', and people who want to convert can go to respective religion institution for conversion.
Bothering someone and selling religion like a salesman should be banned in India. And Madrasa and Convert missionary schools should be banned in a secular country like India.
Anti conversion law should be implemented with speed, no more discussing... Law should also not recognize anybody who is converted and force the converted to reverse his or her conversion if he/she is to tap all social resources of any type provided by the Law (government). Tax the converted to have done so - with heavy-duty for all social services provided by the State- since Christianity and Islam are foreign to India. Hit the converted at their purse and this should resolve the issue.
22
Yes, ban all temple going people to Amrica/Europe/Middle East and other countries who poses a danger to our shudh deshbhakts, who may become victims of conversion, since
they will be given a hearty welcome with rice bags, gold bags and other tempting goodies. In order to maintain the purity of our shudh culture, total stop on foreign tourist.
Deport all who are not ready for Ghar Waapas., and in their place call all patriotic Hindus back.Before they set foot on the soil, cumpalsory shudhy karan a must. Boycott missionary/convent institutions.
Total ban on foreign style celebrations/entertainment.No cutting of cake with knife but ladoo with pickaxe.
,
@@augustinealbertsouza9434 Ok, ban it from Europe, nobody cares, you people are just hippies who attend Hindu gatherings for little acceptance anyway.
And mind you America is not purchased by Christians, America is built by the immigrants from Africa, India, and China.
And Hinduism/Polytheism in the Middle East, lol, you must be living in a dream world of Jeebus.
@@NativeVsColonial they attend Hindu gathering for the sake of entertainment/amusement and not because of reverence. They are curious to see your nanga sadhus, babas and bibhis, godmen/women and have a nice view of you shudh Hindus eating pork/beef Clandestinely. Taking video of this and exhibit to the world your hypocrisy.That's how these hyppies mint money.
What a good point Esther ji.. " can a fraudsters have a right to protest against the bill"
Yes. That's really nice.
All religions irrespective of their numbers will get opportunity to present their faith.
You have to prove that their fraudsters the survey conducted in Chitradurga shows that no fraud is being committed
Agree with Esterji. Gd. Point.
It also starts at home. Parents should show what Hinduism is about to their children. Youngsters and the financially poor are the most vulnerable. Missionaries operate like a mega corporation. Vigilance in society is of utmost importance. Public should be educated about this.
Yes.this is true .there is no class about religion teachings.like Christians and Muslims having. Each should keep bhagvatgeeta holy bk in our home.when ever if trouble comes thenpoor people go to this missionaries and they brainwash their mind.
Any one can say he is a Christian and go about illegally bringing some into his fold. Such persons should not be associated with any church.
Christ and Christianity should not be considered as something abhorrible. There may be some bearing Christian names and living most unchristian lives. Going to church or attending a meeting or prayer does not make one a Christian. Christ teaches us love, compassion, morality. If one believes in Christ - he will follow these precepts ,though occasionally he may fail- he is a Christian.
Lack of knowledge📚📚 about one's own holy Scriptures may lead people astray.
But people who genuinely seek God at last end up being Christian✝✝✝✝✝
Sadhu Sundar Sing a staunch believer in Sikhism and hated Christianity once due to lack of peace of mind tried to commit suicide and asked God Almighty to appear to him. His wish was answered and JESUS CHRIST APPEARED TO HIM AND TOLD THAT HE IS THE ONLY LIVING GOD .
HE BECAME A TRUE ✝ CHRISTIAN ✝AND TRUE WITNESS UNTIL HIS LAST BREATH.
@@creative_psyche8046 Christians have Sunday School🎒📚🎒📚 after pooja
While Muslims teach Koran daily to the children👶👧👦👶👧👦.
So both the Communities👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦 are strong💪💪 in faith.
MUSLIM'S are much stronger in faith than Christians.
If we talk to Muslims about God they used to say that there is only one God and that is Allah. They confidently tells that Allah is the only living God as though they have seen by their naked eye's.
But hindus have no scripture school🎒📚🎒📚 SO the children are not aware of their rich spiritual scripture.
They become easy prey for conversion to Abrahamic religion🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏.
We need these kind of discussion very often to create awareness
The days of Hindutva are numbered
@@modernparadox7035 Counting for Judgement Day or Qayamat is the pet project of Abrahamics, not Hindutva vaadis or Sanatanis.
@@BeamAssure you are right. I lost only ex I had, to adultery & then Christian conversion & Feminism's nonsense. And during the troublesome yeara or rather starting of it, I met a Christian guy who knew my ex & we were talking about some incident, I saw a poster behind him saying adultery is one of 10 odd sins as per his religion 😛😛
Also she became an instrument in destroying a Christian married woman's life.
Be aware of the poverty around you and see how you can contribute to the betterment of the less privileged. The contribution of the christian community is positive and will continue to stay that way. In Kerala there is harmony . It is an exemplary state and described as Gods own country-- KEEP IT THAT WAY AND DO NOT FALL FOR DISRUPTIVE ELEMENTS
@@paulapinto6607 Kerala is an exceptional state. But it has been Dog's Own Country for long despite the propaganda that it is God's Own Country, from where actually God's have left.
Very similar to Western Europe, Scandinavia & even China, where propaganda can keep people sleeping for.long time for dark elements to take over the country or state without anyone taking notice. And when complete takeover is about to happen, "model-place" & religious harmony propaganda can keep them sedate long enough.
I included China, because in Kerala both kind of propaganda Leftist-Feminist one & Jihaadi-Islamist one has coallesced into one.
Even Christians there are trying to find safety under Sanatani umbrella, but as Christianity has been stupidly against Sanatanis For far too long calling them peagans for political control reasons like their younger Abrahamic brothers, even for survival they feel somehow dumbstruck to take refuge.
There are far too many examples in the world of Jihaadis taking over the land wherever along with Christinaity, Commie-Leftist influence is prominent & wherever Leftists-Woke-Feminist influence is rising.
1st set of examples are Iran, Afghanistan, Lebanon and even Pakistan (yes Pakistan). Other set of examples are Scandinavia, Canada, UK, Western Europe & even in pockets of USA.
Kerala is mixture of both. West Bengal is already gone.
Edit: Adding Turkey to the 1st list.
Worried numbers and their power play would go down.
Israel has laws against conversion through enticements. That’s why missionaries couldn’t gain foothold in Israel. Israel is the true example of a democratic religious state, India needs to follow suit.
Heartening to see the youngsters discussing a vital issue like anti conversion law.
It is a must.
They convert Hindus to Christians and continue to call them Dalit Christians and then say Hindus have caste system and then ask for reservations for Dalit Christians.
The converts keep their Hindu names but never disclose that they are converted. Actually the converts have trebled over the last few years but a lot of duping going on
More than that converted Hindus become the biggest enemy of Hindus which creates tensions and ultimately leads to threat to internal security of our country.
@@seemavkn1680 Absolutely spot on...
Very well said
@@seemavkn1680
Namaskaram
In the family itself it has the conflicts due to this conversion.
The one who converted in the family will act like more jovial, more social , more happy and try to convert the other siblings.
If we don't accept that conversion then they say the devil is on her and talking all these.
And fight ,conflict, misunderstanding and finally break the relationship.
@@seemavkn1680 internal security threat from whom?
What kind of country we are living in? We see everything happening in a broad daylight.. people must take Law into their own hand
It is need of the hour.people have to take to arms before it's too late.
Church and Madarsa must close otherwise next Pattinson will come soon 🙏🙏🙏
*partition
Not Church but Convents.
Isnt that forced conversions
you mean partition?...i beg your pardon
@@vijaysainath9691 yes , please Read Wakf Amendment Act 2013 pass by Congress Party 🙏
A very refreshing, focused and no nonsense discussion.
Very good. Please conduct more conversations of this kind.
Great discussion. Great personalities gave their insight on a very serious issue which crippling our nation. Thanks a lot Citi Media, Sharan Shetty for bringing them together. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
IF WE WANT TO STOP CONVERSION., EACH AND EVERY HINDUS VISIT NEARBY VILLAGE AND ORGANISE KIDS AND LADIES GATHERING AND TEACH THEM WHAT IS DHARMA. IT IS THE DUTY OF EVERY AND EACH HINDUS, WE START DOING IT AS GROUP.WE SUPPORT EACH OTHER THROUGH MENTALLY AND FINANCIALLY AND PHYSICALLY/.
Good advice, well off Hindus should help poor Hindus who stay nearby them. Help them financially, help their children to get educated, provide health service
@@dahliajaji9547 They help them by making them their Maid on cheap payroll 😀
@@NativeVsColonial ,you mean to say, other religions make them CEO of their company😏
@@dahliajaji9547 You are right, they also exploit them in the name of free ricebags
How can a minority and a very small minority carry out forced conversions@@NativeVsColonial
Lets remove Article 25. Thanks to Jermome for enlightening..
We need to keep this wonderful moment running and forge forward stronger against every coercive conversions. Thank you so much Citti🙏
Namaste to all🙏
👍👍👍👍
Really valid point made using Banking Fraudster analogy...
Ant payment for Ghar Vapsi.As a Christian if other Christians do Ghar vapsi for money or position I have no problem They dont deserve to be Christians.But if they are using ciolence as lndian citizens we demand our rights
@@ptk8451 what violence are you talking about here? Do you mean as a Christian you are against violent tactics (under some sweet names) used by Christian groups to arm-twist converted people stop them from doing ghar-wapsi ??
Even Islam is involved in conversions but their approach is different.
Sword or convert
@Jith Hegde Yes, the Gulf Oil money
Population and communist alliance.
@@Dharmicaction their main approach to grow numbers is via only polygamy and nirodh ka virodh. ofcourse anything extra is bonus like love jihad etc.,
In European countries, America, and other countries people are converting to Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism ,Atheists etc
Esther dhanraj is not telling the truth ,as she's living in USA she should know it.
Ms Esther, I can show you people giving out Hindu scripture , and other religions.
Why are you fuming hatred in India.
My father, uncle all served in the Indian Army, Airforce etc. I have members in my family who fought for Independence.
The Church organization is talking about it is as you can see People of Christian faith is attacked, church surveys is taken, what about other religions also.
Even in Hinduism we have different sects and organizations.
If
Jesus never taught to go against Government, infect Bible says obey and pray for them in authority.
In Christianity every one is created in the image of God and God loves them all.
So every soul is important and every believer has to share the Gospel ( good news).
If Christians were converting people the way you say why we see Christians are 2 to 3 percent today. Show us where Christian's terrorist.
I believe if the Government and people should care and treat other human beings with love and respect.
My prayer to all the Devi and devatas, please protect us from reducing our spirituality to the level of abrahmic religions.we have a highly evolved spirituality which in this Kali yug is being swapped for material wealth
.
Wonderful session .
Yes, I've come across one incident where a poor parent of a long ailing teen girl was approached n assured by an active christian to help in her treatment outside the state. But when the family came to that christian's house all prepared to go, they were told first to get converted into christianity because the financial help they would get was from the church n was for the christian members only. The father of the girl denied straight away.
This is thier one more tact
That is wrong if it happened Let us take the other side .It is like builying votes.Vote for me and I will give you a computer.of course the voter pockets the computer and votes for the person of his choice
If paying someone to convert is legal so is paying for votes. Both are about influencing choices through inducements.
What is going on with conversion is unacceptable and any reactions to the conversions that may occur would be something they brought on to themselves.
constantly poking at Hindus may one day result in a backlash. At that time there is no point in crying victim.
Those preaching are responsible for their actions and the reactions.
Even we conventional Hindus are cut away from our Sanatanic Dharmic tenets.
So if anything , our agitated spiritual teachers are concerned about reteaching us what we have forgotten .
IT IS VERY SAD.
We want our Country for ourselves. Conversion is senseless. We want Sanatana Dharma in India. We don't want any others . Conversion is nonsense.
So you want people who have chosen Christianity or are born in it to become Hindus to soothe your ego
@@battlerushiromiya651 Her statement is the truth about the whole matter. All they want is for india to be completely hindu and so they are making up all these excuses to attack minorities. Even if there is no issue with any of the minorities they will try to figure out another way to attack.
Forced converting is an act of dehumanising a human being!
Very good conversation. I really hope that all Hindus start exploring Sanatan Dharma to prevent these Christian conversions. I grew up a Hindu but in our homes there were no conversation on Sanatan Dharma. We only followed Holidays like Holi and Diwali. I could not explain my religion to anyone because I did not know enough myself. Now that I am 55+ years old I have started to explore Sanatan Dharma. And Oh My God the I am amazed on how deep and logical our Dharma is!!! I am grateful that I was born a Hindu! In fact if I had to do over I'd be theologist in Hindu Studies. I have been reading Sri Nisargadutta Maharaja and Bhawan Ramana's teachings. I can say that there is sure path to Brahma through self inquiry. No fear of hell, no pressure, no original sin...Santan Dharma leads to self realization! Thank you to all the panelist for this conversation. Unless anti-conversion laws are put in place, these sales people (Missionaries) will not stop....they will find the most poor, needy and vulnerable population of India and try to convert them. Jai Shri Krishna.
Thank you for the focus you are bringing to this controversial issue. If the Christian Clergy abstained from proselytising, there would be no controversy. The Christian Clergy cannot deny that reaching out to people to join their fold is a stated objective. It is a shameful marketing strategy to increase their market share by targeting vulnerable people with inducements. If Christianity is such a powerful religion then people other than vulnerable should be joining in droves. Instead people are quitting in Europe and their numbers are dropping in North America.
Wait are you saying that Christianity is a lie and that it's just manmade what about Islam
@@theguyver4934 u got the point !!!!
@@theguyver4934 Islam is exactly same as Christianity.. Both r man-made cults created to destroy dharma.
@@theguyver4934 No I did not say Christianity is a lie. I am just saying if a religion is so great then it should attract people without having to advertise it and bark like street vendors extolling what they are selling. For the record Buddha and his disciples went about attracting followers. Shankaracharya also revived Hinduism through debate. That was then. Islam and Christianity are new religions. Their followers went about conversion by force and dubious means. This includes bad mouthing other religions. Such a shameful practice. This madness continues to this day. Their Clergy only expose the weakness of their respective religions by indulging in conversion activity. Many disillusioned Christians are leaving the Church, claim they are spiritual, believe in rebirth, Karma and wish to be cremated after death. That is consistent with Sanatana Dharma. . The Kumbh Mela is one of the largest religious gathering that attracts many people of different faiths. On the other hand visiting the Kaaba is restricted to only Muslims. What if it was opened up and very few Non-Muslims chose to join the crowds during Haj? It would be an interesting indicator.
@@theguyver4934
Here is the proof from the mouth of Christians themselves.
IT IS AN ACT OF VIRTUE TO DECEIVE AND LIE, WHEN BY SUCH MEANS THE INTEREST OF THE CHURCH MIGHT BE PROMOTED...BISHOP EUSEBIUS 260-339
HOW WELL WE KNOW WHAT A PROFITABLE SUPERSTITION THIS FABLE OF CHRIST HAS BEEN FOR US...POPE LEO X 1513-1571
Anti-Conversion Law is the way to GO. Karnataka Government is RIGHT.👌👌👌
Dont we have the freedom to believe what we want to What would you have told those missionaries of Asoka And anyhow where are the jains and Budhists Havent they been converted.
@@ptk8451 In 21st. CENTURY ppl are well informed of their rights to NOT forcefully
Intruded upon. Abrahamic traditions use lies deceit and violent means to convert ppl. Now Dharmic tradition followers are better informed hence love and appreciate the value and wisdom of their Vedic texts and are prepared to resist. Karnataka state is going one step forward because of the aggressive and disgraceful means of mass conversion tactics of some. Kudos.
JAI HIND FOR ETERNITY.
@@sashapillai7430 The Karnataka state government own survey in Chitradurga failed to show conversions at a large scale or through fraud.
This is all just hot air that even the government can't substantaie
@@battlerushiromiya651 The conversion activities are carried out by Christian missionaries and Islamists very quietly and by stealth in most areas. First of all they say Jesus is the only way for salvation. The Islamists their God is the only way. That is arrogant, dogmatic false representation . Not acceptable anymore.
@@sashapillai7430 The own government survey disputes this.
Victim testimony is the strongest testimony and if you cannot except that your arguments are not supported by basic facts then christisn have a reason to be worried about this law.
And when are you going to stop making up conspiracy theories about Muslims and Christians from the latest Jihad to the ridiculous claims that only money is driving conversions, most Muslims and Christians don't even think about Hindus as obsessively as some Hindus do.
Will this obsession of yours ever stop?
I saw the press conference of the bishop and he said I don't encourage the anti conversation bill because it will give power to small groups for religious policing which will increase attacts on church and worship places. He said I don't mind police coming to church but the small groups I am afraid of will cause problems. And he also gave example of some incident I am sure you all saw it. He said there is law already against forcefull conversion and he goes on to says that if you see any forcefull conversion, deceitfull conversion or incentive based convertion than report it. I recommend everyone to watch the press conference if you have concerns.
Only a fraudster is afraid of any law to curb fraud. When Jesus was not afraid of dying on the cross, what is the Vatican appointed Bishop afraid of? I think Jesus needs to be rescued from the clutches of the Church
Reason is simple. Guilty are always afraid of exposure and law
Hindus should unite and do satyagrah on this. Every Hindu should sit on the roads and protest. Got to show the strength of Hindus to churches and mosques.
GOI please implement all n any laws strictly that undermine national security. No dilusion of any kind must be allowed.
Rai, I am also saying the same, NE-north east,… I too have see and travelled up to kaying AP, tinsukia, Manipur, Meghalaya,….etc., I have crossed bhramaputra several times,… that is the reason people get converted, when govt deliberately stop development, people become poorer and flooding makes their life miserable, and on opposite side hawks are waiting for the situations, they will make churches, school, and hospitals, 1000 get job and all will be converted with the western money coming in as donations…., on parallel side temples and temples wealth was taken away in the name of irregularities by temples trust ( as if churches don’t have irregularities at all across the country/ world) . So, temple priests cannot do any social activities at all,… they themselves get 6000/- salary some famous temples priests get around 20,000/- while corrupt officials make lakhs of rupees, purohits are forced to live with minimal salary. While churches fathers have luxury cars, a house, power to destroy other’s believes, etc.,
What you Sy is 100% correct. Whenever calamities occur missionaries are first there to wipe the tears of poor with conversion. This should stop.
Very informative & a good conversation. Good such conversations are now coming to the fore. Thanks. The government should take note of these discussions & debates.
Very good points in calling a spade a spade is the need of the hour and it applies to Islam and Buddhism equally so let’s not just highlight the Church only. These points should be taken by politicians and amplified on all fronts - in the legislation, discussions, media briefings with historical evidence of Christian and Islamic atrocities and recent religious hatred and conversions in Kashmir and Northeast. Any opposition does not represent the whole of that particular community!! Very easy to negate their opinions as they are proselytising people with differing agendas!! 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Jay Hind
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Very insightful discourse.Not only provincial, a pragmatic national law also should be passed after comprehensive exchange of thought s among research groups and government to protect Bharat identity. Thanks to Chitti media and its panelists.
Why Modi ji hugged and invited Pope to Bharat.. I don't understand him many a times
great work.
Saran ji.. when you announced you were going to ask questions on behalf of the bishop, or occurred to me that this is the first time that someone is playing devil’s advocate on behalf of the Church!! Ironical, isn’t it 😊. But you did a good job and I agree with Jerome ji that this article 25 thing needs to be set to rest. And it will, in good time.
There's no need for a ceremony to return to Hinduism. Just leave Christianity or any other offending religion!!!
Yes that is correct. Hinduism does not have a formal occasion to revert to Samantha way of life which belongs to nature itself.
Yes.correct .
That will happen when all patriotic citizens of the country just boycott missionary schools.
@@devakinandan3719 yes, there is no formal occasions/ceremony to boycott missionary/convent institutions. Also to preserve hindu culture, stop entertainment/celebrations in Western style, viz. stop cutting cake with knife, cut ladoo with pickaxe.
@@augustinealbertsouza9434 dont forget the westerns are the ones who had been dancing around when they celebrate festivals. Ask them to stop doing it (westerners) Stop cutting the cupcake, just bite it.
Great discussion! Finally Citti Media uploaded the entire discussion
જય માં ભારતી
વંદે માતરમ્ 🙏🏻
From next time, use English.
I was very frustrated when one of the office boy in software company who was a rice bag convert tried to give me copy of Bible to read.. If these people can do this with educated people what can they do with illiterates and tribals.. These missionary people always try downgrading hindu gods and godess
Why do you educated people dont reject your scriptures because it says the Earth sits on the back of elephants which in turn sits on the back of a turtle😂😂😂 are you seriously educated????
Bible says the Earth appears as a circle when looked from the top and it hangs on nothing, written 3000 yrs before the description of gravitational force. Bible also describes expanding universe.
Get educated ..
Absolutely
@@modernparadox7035 how are you Mr rice bag convert jealous poor soul 😄😂
@@himdude9637 dude, all Christians in the world are converted. For your info, we accepted Christianity 500 yrs ago, far earlier than you people even knew that you were Hindus 🤣🤣🤣
@@modernparadox7035 OK flat earth virgin birth. Marry was virgin but gave birth how.?
Religious conversion is a process of denying dignity without right to debate, to those who differ with the conversioner’s religious and world views.
Abrahamic faiths need to accept this view, if they seek dignity under law.
“The Christian god is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust.”
- Thomas Jefferson (3rd U.S.A President)
From where did you get that quote
@@ptk8451 Learn to google.
Sab ko Namste
Namaskaram
I really appreciate this discussion.
No time should be wasted. The law should be implemented immediately.
This is the first priority for the nation s security.
Now coming to the article 25 etc.
One can propagate doesn't mean you get into neighbours family to raise your family. This may look odd but that's what is going on.
You raise your family and your children don't stray away .
That's it. What a little butler English I know i understand only this much.
I don't have to prey on my neighbour to propagate my family.
If I have the strength I produce and raise my family.
But now you can't raise more than one, with present population.
VeryVery useful and need of the hour and very eye opening good work
👍👍👍👍👍👍
Wow. Pure logic. Facts. Amazing Esther ji
This discussion should be made more public for a wider audience
Esther Danraj ji mai aapaka fan hu mai aapako sunta hu
Namaskaram 🙏🙏
While in Hinduism the caste system is a sin, in case of Christianity, the Pope has made it a religion in the church. Thus according to the Catholic Church practicing caste system is not a sin. Different castes have their own churches. The when the Christian says once converted the caste will go is a lie. It is in fact religiously ordained as said above.
KRISHNA U ARE THE MOST UNEDUCATED PERSON JESUS WELCOME ONE AND ALL , 5HATS WHY UR NAME IS KRISHNA , U CANNOT HAVE UR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO , 16 OOO MUSLIMS LEAVE EVERY WEEK AND FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST
@@malcolmfernandezxacts7793 SINCE WHEN DID JESUS ACCEPTED ALL. HE ACCEPTED ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM. THAT IS WHAT JESUS IS.
@@malcolmfernandezxacts7793 Hi educated. Please show sanity and then education then we can reply to your scream.
All the panalists r top class in this subject...thanks for bringing them together! Religious coversions in india has always been a demographic project...during islamic rule..during British rule n very much after 1947! The central idea is to outnumber hindus n take over.... political power ...Post 47 it has happend succesfully in Kashmir, NE n Keralam where non hindus hv taken over political power by overtaking hindus in numbers...AP, TN, WB is work in progress!
Govt. Should take action against missionaries.
Really good points by Esther ji, she would have destroyed the opponent in the debate had he shown up
IF CHRISTIANS LIVE A TRUE CHRISTIAN ✝✝✝✝LIFE 👌👌👌IN INDIA🇮🇳🇮🇳 THEN THERE WON'T BE ANY OTHER RELIGION IN INDIA🇮🇳🇮🇳... BY MAHATHMA GANDHI. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
LIFE SPEAKS LOUDER THAN THUNDERING SERMON.
You want it to grow , even though everything about it is a lie , illogical and irrational?
People who want to listen to prayers. Don't have to change their religion. Only mind is controlled. The soul remains the same.
Any religion that demands law for forceful retention is not ready to face challenges of the future..
Any foreign money donated to any religious organization should be pooled and used for people of India of all religions based on need. Foreign money flowing into religious institutions is the prime source for espionage and terrorist activities. This money should only come to the government and be transparent.
Money collected in hindu temples must be used only for Hindus .but government steal all donations and use it for the whole country
They donate through NGOs and propagate on tourist visa. You cant catch them.
@@HareKrishnaHareRama101 usse kuch nahi hoga. Our issue is not money. Didnt we donate to PM care? Our issue is lack of recognising the problem, and lack of organisation to resist it.
Rajiv Malhotra clearly says - if regulatory rules are applied in business against false advertizing (such as clear duping by Benny Hinn in Bangalore) and predatory pricing (e.g. inducement with money), why not have those rules against conversion too? And what an absolute oxymoron is the term 'Dalit Christian' .
There are already there the problem is that neither fraud or allurement is how Christians convert.Please provide the data on how many convictions result as a result of anti Conversion laws in various states.
So these laws only give a tool to harass and we will see more of this in the future
Anti convertion law is most important at the earliest for our country..... Jai Hind 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Forcefull retention should also be addressed
It is not about fraudulent means or 'fair' means. 'Conversion' through any means into non indic traditions is assuming that 'religion' is a matter of truth which is not an indic point of view but a Semitic stance.
Most of the people are ignorant who are getting converted
I request those who are very much worried about conversion, should visit Mahim church in Mumbai every Wednesdays, Velankani (Tamil Nadu), and other Christian places of worship. Inquire from them to which faith do they belong, and who invited them. Why they have lost faith in their original faith. How much money and who paid them.
What about surveys in temples/mosques. Are conversion not going on their.?
@@augustinealbertsouza9434 Give us one proof where conversion has happened to Hinduism. Thee is no concept of conversion in Hinduism.
Conversions do happen in Islam and Christianity. Initially it use to happen through killings and now through other means.
"Christianity is a threat to national unity." - Toyotomi Hideyoshi
He was a murderer who even Japrn today acknowledge.
No Japanese will defend his anti Christian attacks
@@battlerushiromiya651
Le ChRiStIaNoPhObIa: 2000yrs of Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch-Hunts, Atrocities on non-believers, Ethnic cleansing of Native people of foreign lands goes Burrr!
@@NativeVsColonial You bring this up as if Toyotomis Hideyoshi attacked christisng because of concern for any of the above.
You act like you are concerned about other but are using crimes Indian Christians were not even involved with to justify violence against them
You much close to the western Christians you despise than you think.
Churcha ko kuch chupaneko nahi to billse dare kyo, iseliye dal mey kuch kala to hogahi . Bill lana chahiye our inki enquery hona chahiye.
First of all the minister should define “ conversion”. Whether it is conversion or any subject , it should not be done in an illegal or immoral way. Thr Christian Churches do believe in conversion, the conversion of one’s interiority, not name or dress or food. Those who wish to change the religion, he should be free. Let the illegal or immoral ways if adopted by anyone, punishment can be inflicted. The problem is like the Blasphemy laws of Pakistan meant for harassing Hindus and Christians, we have the anti conversion law just to harass the Christians. If the intention is to do the right thing , no one will object.
Why the survey for Christian community . Are we less than any other community ? Let there be survey about the ownership of religious places of all communities. Have they assessed the percentage of encroachment of roads and public property , community wise. .? Why it is not done and why temples, mosques and churches are not demolished from such encroachments.? .? So dear rulers kindly be factual, reasonable and even patriotic in our approach.
Sir they have already decided the result before the debate even began
The only silver lining is that just like how the Karnataka government survey in Chittadurga failed to prove anything and frankly destroyed all the claims, even in future this law will not lead to much convictions
The problem is there is going to be a lot of harassment and the violence is going to become deadlier when the legal machinations don't yield desired results.
When the ultimate idea is hatred and destruction, arguments have no value. Those who perpetrate injustice to the downtrodden cannot tolerate any thing that empowers the downtrodden. Christ taught love, compassion, sacrifice,justice, truth,peace and joy. Are there people against this ideology ? The problem for the fundamentalists is that some change their names , going to churches for worship and prayer. If names are not changed, if they don’t go to church and recite prayers to Christ, there may not be any objection. Of course then the fundamentalists can say that certain items of food should be avoided; certain ways of dressing should be avoided. Even that may be acceptable to the person who has some faith in Christ. But if he does not say he is a believer in Christ and appears as any other one including as atheist , there is no protest by fundamentalists. The atheist condemns God, Allah, Krishna, Christ, but he is a nationalist and good Indian He becomes wrong only when he believes in Christ. I am writing this not as a Christian arguing for or against conversion. As an unbiased Indian citizen I feel one should have freedom to follow any religion or ideology if it is not anti national and does not infringe public morality. Of course by majority will we can construct or we can crush . The most funny thing is that the citizen’s interior thought and decision to follow Christ must be notified to a govt official . What a big freedom of Conscience !
@@kalappurathomas4261 Sir one more thing atheists are your allies, both in India and abroad atheists of the secular,humanist variety will always stand up for you.In India atheist of the above variety are not yet prominent but their number will also come.
Right now, people are feeling empowered to target others who they dislike and are throwing their weight around.
We need to continue to hold restraint and put our case forward as much as possible.One day this period will end
It is a great discussion... however, one of the solution to this issue would be STOP SENDING THE KIDS TO MISSIONARY SCHOOLS. There are many other educational systems. It was in one of the discussions in India Today that i heard one of the pastors saying that the Indians would have been in gutters if the missionaries would have not educated us ENGLISH. Seriously!!! I mean we have to change the notion in our country that only if a person speaks English is a smart person. Please use the Govt. Schools and any education is education... doesnt matter if it is in English or not. Please do try to fix things from the root level rather than trying skim the surface. It may take a while however it would be a great thing we as a generation could do to build a future who knows culture than any profecies.
Pranamam.
Tell the politicians and celebrities not to send their children, also to western countries for higher studies etc..
Send the children to Government school. Do what you preach .
@@justicetruth6529 Thank you Johnson for proving my point. So you agree western countries are Christian Missionaries..... that being said I completely agree with your point though. I wish there comes a day like that.
@@justicetruth6529 Missionary schools are not the only private schools. It also means there are thousands of secular private schools. Only State Government schools are bad. Central government schools like Navodya schools do a better job than missionary and other private schools for less money. No wonder, states like Tamil Nadu has very substandard state board education system.
@@Dharmicaction Tamil Nadu students regularly outpace their peers in Mathematics, reading and other basic skills.
They have a different culture of how students should be tested and frankly the amount of educational institution at sll levels is huge
Not single Church is afraid of any survey. Do not presume something.
Protect India
Very good debate on upcoming legislation. All religions will vanish in future as people are basically non religious.
Small correction Ms. Rami Desai... Economic incentives lure even rich and greedy celebrities (Especially in the show Business) as a bait to convert. There are good number of examples from Telugu/Tamil film fraternity who are well to do people with good fame and reputation in their early days and convert to Christianity later and become evangelists
Good job by BJP government 👍
Yesh, master stroke like always 🤡
The real problem with a religion is not that many people leave it. If there are too many ignorant people in that religion then that is the real problem. If religion is to survive, it must be prepared for debate. Otherwise the outside will be beautifully preserved and the whole inside will rot and become weakly crumbling.
It is a wide subject. Point to ponder is also the large immigration of Indians in search of job and readily it is given to them. By this act majority of such people will talk high of such places and degrade India in many ways.
Anto, you mean to say bishop doesn’t know; I am 100% sure he knows; this is how it has grown and it is a deliberate act to break/weaken Indians into multiple cultures; just like corrections in the country; difficult to handle but not impossible; it has to systematic approach and not superficial,… special team has to be appointed; etc.,
God is universal irrespective of faith, changing religions does not mean anything. Have self faith, follow humanity and be kind and loving to all
Ghar vapacy is ok.
But there should be a proper document amendments. Otherwise simply they come to get the benefit and be somewhere else.
There is a proverb , eat in this house and serve in that house.
We welcome them. That's no problem.
Humare Sant Shri Asaramji Baapu ko jail me Sonia sarkar isilye sada rahi hai..kyunki unhone conversion k against awaz uthai aur kam bhi kia..
Exactly
it causes a culture change.. culture has nothing to do with religion.. its like an organization culture.. a certain democraphic has a way to think, a way to behave, some social norms that are understood and mutually exchangeable without hesitation, the attachment to one's own country as a whole.. it breaks down all these think at a fundamental level which breaks down the demographic as a whole..
@@banubanu1136 I didn't say destroying. Where did alcohol come from? Who brought cigarettes to India? These are slow changes. If you stick on to Dharma, these changes would not have effected us. Moreover these are what you can see with your eye. There are so many things that you cannot see with your eye
Any law to modify religious conversion, it must include a demand that all religions are legitimate paths to god as one.
Which What Where Who When - Anti Conversion laaaa ???
Excellent discussion. Christian propagators shd. Learn to be honest & speak the TRUTH!
Once u allow it is difficult to identify who is induced, who are frauds etc this has to be eliminated from roots at the start itself
If temple donations are diverted to the hindu poor community instead of the state governments gobbling it, we can expect some results.
No... this is not about temple money. Its about having an organised machinary and a burning ambition. If you give someone lottery money, would he be able to build an empire? No. A person with little money but with a good plan and commitment will create an empire.
Gharwaapsi will be ultimate & last result. Nobody wants to donate more than 10% of income almost by force
@@jmac512 actually its other way around. ITS WRITTEN IN BIBLE THAT HE IS JEALOUS GOD ,PROMOTING POUIS FRAUS . HE DID NOT COME FOR PEACE BUT FOR WAR.
You will not find even a single Hindu telling that All Non Hindu will go to hell but all missionaries, Christians actually just not think but also believe that all Non believers will go to hell.👎👎
@@jmac512 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pious_fraud#:~:text=Pious%20fraud%20is%20used%20to,faith%20by%20whatever%20means%20available. Why so much hate to others ?? What forces missionaries to hate and practice Pious frauds??? Definitely not humanity.
@@jmac512 why new testament if Bible is truth?? What is guarantee new testament are true aur they are final?? Who is this person making testaments?? Did jesus asked for conversions before dying??? I have never read it anywhere in bible. AS FAR as I KNOW ,HE WANTED TO TAKE MEDICINE & EDUCATION EVERYWHERE NOT CHRISTIAITY AS SOUL VULTURES. GET WELL SOON.MAY JESUS SHOW YOU LIGHT.....HARI OM SHANTI. SHANTI ,SHANTI....
J Mac no need to justify.each and every religion have thier own significance.we Hindus never insult any religion and thier gods. If you keep a stone in front of you and pray in front of that stone with good hearted it will become a god. Religion is made by we human being . comparison is made by us. No one is knowing whether hell or heaven is there. This is only belief . we help so many people we never see whether he is Hindu ya Muslim ya Christian .
@@jmac512 please read our holy scriptures carefully before commenting about Hinduism in future.... we are people of library not book.Hinduism is true democracy in spritual world ,it allows us to choose our spiritual path independently not by dictation .Hate is preached by missionaries not by common Christians. I myself sitting in western country have so many wonderful friends from Christian background have 0 trust in Bible.
MK Gandhi was baptized after so many years of death to fool innocent tribal, uneducated people in India. I hate missionary fraudsters not CHRISTIAN ....Thank you
Reconverts can be given a separate identity and it will solve the problem
They should be given a ghar wapsi orientation. Handhold them, give them material to understand the structure and core values of Hinduism.
As a Christian I will spread the Christian message. It is up to the people to accept it or not.
I am not ashamed to talk about Christ and his teachings.
Christianity has been estimated to be growing rapidly in South America, Africa, and Asia. In Africa, for instance, in 1900, there were only 8.7 million adherents of Christianity; now there are 390 million, and it is expected that by 2025 there will be 600 million Christians in Africa.
Sinu Joseph must be added to discussion !!!
Only cash decides..why not cash as in the csse of voting...
That is already going on, are you so ignorant about it. If a person has right to change his party through fraudulent means, why not change God/style of worship through the same means?
Among the many solutions to christian proselytization the one that is most necessary to correct is to stop the state from collecting and managing donations from Hindu temples.
Without distributing temple donations Hindus feel helpless to help other Hindus and they are easily influenced to convert.
Our Constitution under A25 has given the FR to Freedom of Religion that includes the Right to Conscience, Right to Profess, to Practice and to Propagate. SC has held in Rev. Stanislaus Vs State of MP (AIR 1977, SC 908) that there is no fundamental right to convert any person to one's own religion. A25(1) guarantees the right to transmit or spread one's religion by an exposition of its tenets. If a person purposefully undertakes the conversion of another person to his own religion, it would impinge on the freedom of conscience, guaranteed to all the citizens of the country alike. So there is no FR to Convert.
Can someone so a results choose to change their religion?
Yes so there is a right to convert you will need to take away the right of people to preach if you actually want to stop conversion
Rami is 200% correct; NE was kept in poverty deliberately; no development deliberately; no jobs deliberately; no education deliberately; every one is made to think that if they convert then they will not be harmed w.r.t food, security, shelter in the first place; and then education, job, name comes next if you help in further conversion. Therefore the bill should come up as soon as possible,….
Not deliberately. I have worked in national networks. North West is very enterprising. North East is extremely laid back and tribal. Also Bangladesh cuts off the access and its very expensive to reach people and good there. It rains a lot and the terrain is hard.
Conversion by coercion is a situation of the past. We have to follow the law under the constitution. If people want to convert by choice, it is their fundamental right granted by the constitution. The state cannot object. If there is a blanket ban on coversion imposed by the state ,then this is trampling on individual rights. This amounts to coercion.
Not by there own will some are brainwashed and also for money.
@@vikasgowda1391 Politics will not change. It is as someone famously said ' IT IS THE LAST REFUGE OF THE RASCAL' The Arch Bishop will protect his flock and we will support him.
@@paulapinto6607 and we also support our govt and moreover bills are ready to pass in assembly, I don't know why u people are so afraid of this bill when u are in right path.
@@vikasgowda1391 because the goons who want to target and attack Christians will be emboldened by this.
Look at how the MLQ of Chitradurg reacted when a survey conducted by the DC did not prove but instead disproved any major conversion and found no proof of forceful conversion
He claimed it is lies, this kind of denial is frightening especially when even when proof is not present you keep on insisting it is.