Making a Royal 5C Collet Closer Adjusting Nut Assembly and a Spindle Collet Holder. Final Part 2
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2024
- In the second and final part of this video series, I finish the installation of the Royal 5C collet closer, adjusting nut and the spindle collet holder.
My lathe came with a royal 5C Collet closer however, it was missing the adjusting nut and a spindle collet holder. Honestly, I was not sure if I would be able to make this and have it work, but you really don’t know until you try, and there really is no better way to learn this trade than by doing. you just have to get out in the shop and do some work. Thanks for Moose’s Machinery for that advice!
To get the collet closer to work correctly requires ensuring proper spacing of the various components: from the spindle collet holder to the adjusting nut to the closer leveraging mechanism. All must be working in harmony in order to make a quick operating collet closer.
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I suspect that your concentricity issues are caused by the 5C nose piece that threads on the spindle.
1) The nose piece should have a close tolerance fit between the shoulder that you enlarged on it and the shoulder on the spindle.
2) Like R8 collets, 5C collets primarily depend upon two surfaces for alignment: the taper and the bore at the threaded end. The bore appears to be too loose on your nose piece, which allows collets to get canted. That's why the runout increases significantly away from the collet.
3) There should be a pin in the nose piece to engage with collet keyways. The drawbar should be rotated to pull collets in without spinning the collets. This will be an even bigger issue if you attempt to load/unload work with the lathe running.
I agree. The nosepiece should be remade with the proper bore sizes and pin.
I don’t understand your first point, can you explain further? And I understand and agree with your points 2 and 3. Thank you for the suggestions!
Agreed!
Actually after having read it again, I understand your first point. Great point and thank you!
Agreed. The spindle nose piece and its interface with the collet and the spindle is most crucial for concentricity. Any run out there will be magnified in the work held in the collet. While no collets offer zero runout, it should be very minimal.
Before pulling your hair out, inspect you piece of 1/2" HSS on a surface plate to make sure its not
bent. Then inspect your 5C collet's ID concentricity on something like a spin indexer if you have
one, pick the best collet and try the closer again. If all that checks out OK, then I would proceed
with the mentioned recommendations. It might be worth it to buy a test bar that fits your largest collet.
Good luck!
Thank you for the advice! I’ll do that and report back.
A few observations which probably back up E Designs comment
At 26:35 when you had a previously well machined piece and it was suddenly off kilter, there is probably another issue behind that relating to the rest of the piece's alignment.
At 29:45 on when you adjusted the swivel joint to get it to fit into the hole in the case mount hinge, when you then closed the collet closer the rear centre appeared to swing slightly off centre, which may not in itself cause a problem, if the collet nose piece is correct.
and at 39:00 when you remachined the 14 degree collet taper, I noticed that the internal previously "straight" section behind it now varies in size as the spindle rotates, this would mean that section is now slightly off to one side of centre, which comes back to E Designs comment.
Good Luck and Best Wishes from Down Under.
You have a close eye on things, thank you - I'll be sure to check out the alignment of the parts.
3:20 Are we having fun yet? 12:00. Use center in tailstock to set center of cut off tool? I believe Stefan Gottswinter(sp?) has a video on this subject. He is a Maniac on tolerance, check him out. Definitely required watching 😂. Keith Rucker ( Vintage Machinery). Just did a speeds and feed…..again, great stuff.😊
I appreciate the recommendations! I regularly watch Keith. And thank you for your continued support of my channel!
5C collets are only clamping on the very edge of the collet, rendering them per se less accurate than ER collets, that clamp along the full length.
Then there is a great difference between the quality of the collets. Compare a Schaublin collet to a Chinese one, you will see the difference. But then again, a Swiss collet costs about 6 times as much.
Thank you for the information. I’m going to start with making a new spindle holder for my 5cs that I have and test them out. Then consider making an ER holder… thanks for watching and your comment!
I like your projects and your cinematography is good, but the flicker at the start was pretty jarring. I don't know what's good in flicker-free lighting, but I would do well to have a look myself.
I think that was because it was a slow motion video. I’ll avoid that in the future if causes a flicker. I don’t want to make anyone dizzy. Thank you for letting me know and thank you for watching and commenting on my videos!
I have been thinking about your build since watching the video yesterday. I have a few questions on your lathe. What is the internal taper of your lathe? I’m assuming it’s either 4 or 4.5 Morse Taper. What is the internal spindle bore? 1.375”? I have a lathe that has the more uncommon 4.5 MT spindle bore. It has a 5C collet adapter that pops into that spindle taper allowing 5C collets with use of a tube style draw bar. Not totally unlike your Royal collet closer but without the lever closer. The only thing that threads onto the work side of the spindle is a thread protector which also aides in removing the collet adapter. This thread protector does not interact with the collets. This lathe uses L00 taper chucks.
I may have missed it as I’m new to your channel. Does your setup use an adapter that pops into the work side spindle taper? If need be, I could provide pictures.
I don’t think you are far off from having a useable collet closer. It may just require some tweaking or perhaps at worst a remake of the nose pieces.
I have more research to do but I do believe there is an internal taper. I found pictures yesterday for 5C Collet nose spindle adapter and I think that’s what you are referring to and what I really need to make. If you don’t mind, send me your pictures via email, you can find my email on my channel page. Thank you!
@@EnoRestoration I am going to send a couple emails later this morning with pics.
@@grntitan1Received! As I said in my email and I'll say it again now, its great that so many guys here are willing to invest their time and help me out with their knowledge. Thank you!