Seiko 5 Efficiency Test (7S26) : Science Time
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
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In the past, when I've researched the Seiko 5's 7S26 movement. I've seen it commented that one of the reasons seiko did not include hand winding, was because they didn't think it was necessary. So I decided to test that idea.
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Oxygen Garden by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
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Artist: chriszabriskie....
This guy has a perfect voice for narrating crime scene murder recreations or serial killer documentaries. Great set of pipes! 👍
Seiko 5: The Toyota Landcruiser of watches!
It's not a Land Rover, that's for sure. It's reliable.
Toyota corolla
😁👍
More like an FJ40
Honda civic
OMG I'm not the only person who does test on his watches.I found through exhaustive testing that 800 rotations on a 7s26 and 36 will give you 40 hours power reserve.I put mine on the watch pillow and counted the rotations.100 rotations =5hours and so on.
You Sir, are crazier then i am. 😋 How long did that take?
Relative Time Hours,but I'd watch the news are something while I did it.
Really nice to know. I once read that 650 rotations was a full wind on 7S movements, but I trust empiric testing more. My snzg and snkl thank you.
out of interest how did you perform the rotations (and counting)
How old is your 7s26 watch? I have 2 yo seiko snk803k2 and it last around 6 hours on 100 rotations, so it's still normal?
Speaking like a President addressing the Nation.
This was really interesting! Not having watch winders, I really prefer an automatic with hand winding, but I was actually pretty impressed at how the movement in the SNK performed.
It actually is impresive. I thought a min of shaking would only let it run for 4 or so hours. I was hoping to have the entire experiment wraped up in a day or two. But "wound" up taking 4.😋
Brother,im from trinidad and tobago and i learn alot about watches because of this channel,thank you for all your videos
Wow! I've heard its beautiful there. My wife has mentioned she wants to head to that area of the Caribbean to dive sometime.
When I've looked at the analytics of my channel, only 30% of the views come from the USA. It amazes and humbles me that there are people around the globe watching what I create. Thanks for watching and your support. 👍
blood shed Alleluia praise the Lord
@@kronossonork6994 what you mean,blood shed is the name of my favorite player in a video game
Cool. Where in China are you from?
I suspect a good reason for a non-hand winding watch would be to take stress of the crown and seal.
Possible. It could be the engineers thought that it would be a good protective measure. Perhaps to increase the longevity of the seal on the steam as well. Or it could of been that they designed it from the ground up to be as simple and effective as possible. Which if something isn't needed, why include it.
i just purchased that exact watch you have in the video beginning, the Seiko 5 snk805. It's arriving today. my first automatic. (then I bought a Tissot luxury chronometer, on the way). i'm getting sucked into watches :)
Start slowly... its a very deep rabbit hole. :)
....wouldn't it be better to count the number of crown turns or swirls in the case of the 7s26 instead of winding for, "one minute"? Does anybody know how many rotations of the rotator it takes to fully wind a 7s26 from fully dead?
Amazing! I encourage you to keep doing like this! you are one if not my favourite watch´s reviewersª!
Thanks! I appreciate. I was thinking of doing a followup comparing the efficiency of winding with Seiko Automatics and Kinetics. But this time using a watch winder. But that hasn't worked. Kinetics do not like winders, so I have to think up a new way to test them. Cheers!
Thnx for sharing!! Was very impressed with the Vostok Amphibia here!! My fave watch brand !!
Hey Wayne, thank you, love your presentations. I have a Seiko SNZG07 which I love and more than happy with it's power reserve.
Thanks! Although it’s Shane, not Wayne. 😎. But thats ok, most time people think I say James.
Too funny. Congrats on the continuing success of the channel. Keep 'em coming. Cheers
As a science teacher for 30+ years your “fair test” in your experiment are to be commended 👏
Thanks!
Thank you for another get video! I have a Seiko SNK803 and two SKX diver watches with the 7s26c movement. I actually like that the movement is simple with less moving parts. In my opinion it makes for a more resilient movement. My SNK803 when worn consistently keeps with atomic time for a week or more before deviating. My 007 is about +10 a day and the 009 is about -10 a day. I have never bothered to regulate any of them yet as they do the job. Lots of people don't like the 7s26, but for myself I think it is a robust, simple, and reliable movement. Thanks again for the great information.
There is something to be said about keeping a design straightforward and simple. Although it does make me wonder how much of a difference there is in the designs between the 7s26 and 4r35 to give it hacking / hand winding.
As long as a watch is within 10 seconds a day, I don't even think about regulating. As there is a good chance I'd make it worse not better. Thanks for watching, and cheers!
The Seiko winding mechanism is much better than the ETA one. The small wheels in the ETA mechanism are messing a lot: Too much oil makes the mechanism too hard and you can destroy the wheels. The Seiko System would also be too fragile with an added hand winding, which in fact is unnecessary. If you are not paying all day in a hospital bed, the Seiko is perfect, plus it's a day-date.
Thanks RT, great idea and great production - you nail the time lapse and sound! (maybe a movie coming?). I have a soft spot for the Citizen NY0040, the mesh gave me an idea :0)
Thanks. Dunno about a movie, not sure what I would do it on, but I try to learn a little more each video I make. I love my NY0040, some point I should do a video on it. Cheers!
Never really thought about this, I do notice that a slight shake will start up the Seiko's which is all I'm really looking for. The lack of hacking bothers me way more.
Some people find it bothersome, others don't mind it. For me it's been more of an issue when I have multiple watches, and I'm trying to keep them running to run accuracy tests for review. I only have one winder, so space is limited to keep them running on it. Cheers!
Nah, hacking is not a big deal. If you manage to adjust it to a reasonably accurate timekeeping you aint gonna notice the change. I have a Seiko5 that runs at +7 seconds per day which i find AWESOME and once I set the time thats it, i dont really care about a few seconds tho.
Good video and thank you for taking the time to dumb it down for guys like me. Im a blue collar man who moved up the ranks in my field of rough necks. I’m a watch lover and I don’t know as much as I would like to. I fully understood your video and it makes sense to me. Thank you brother.
Informative video, thanks for sharing 👍
I think you can tweak the test method. How about this: pick up a dead watch and snap it on wrist then walk precisely 100 steps. After all, that's how an automatic is really supposed to be winded right?
Could work. Although its more the motion your arms as you walk that charge it. So I'd have to find a way to regulate my "swagger" to insure consistency. 😎
Nice video! Makes me want to create a basic autowinder so I can spin up several watches all exactly the same and see how they do. First world problems, but fun!
Thanks. If you've never googled diy watch winders check it out. Some very creative (although probably not efficent) designs. My favorite ones always include Legos.😀
Good test, liked your method & conclusion. Impressed by the swiss movement's efficiency (given its higher beat rate). Maybe accuracy comparisons, or effects of different temperatures on different movements could provide some interesting results.- but it'd be quite a mission!
Very well presented, professional video, cheers mate 👍👍
Thanks. That could be daunting, but could interesting to check. I think the age of the watch will also play a big role. Thanks again. Cheers!👍
Good video, took a lot of time and concentration, God bless ya!
I’ve been wanting to pick up one of these or a sngz. But I keep blowing my money on Vostoks.
There are worse things to blow your money on. 😎
I managed to obstain from Vostoks long enough to get a blue SNZG 😁
Steve Knight haha they’re a good investment. There’s some good sellers on eBay. Cheaper than meranom and shipping is around 10 days. Not bad from Russia. Get them while they are cheep. Komandirskie classics for 28 bucks. I have a feeling demand and prices in the US will go up. People like modular. And Vostoks are the LEGO’s of watches.
I think today there is even a 15% coupon for ebay. The Vostok Scuba I recently got, I ordered off ebay the last time there was a coupon like this.
Relative Time thanks for the tip. I was able to pickup a orient 3 star. Green dial for $40 bucks on eBay yesterday.
awesome stuff! Thanks for the info!
I have read online, that winding an automatic watch by hand daily could be harmful for the gears in the winding mechanism, since they're not as robust as the ones in manual only watches. Is there any truth to this?
I want to share my expereince. I have couple of seiko watches with 7s26 movement and non of them can run for 41 hours at rest. the max time i have notieced is 24 to 27 hours max. is this is a big flaw in this movement where as old movements from 1970s can run 39 hours.
I checked the power reserve of my Seiko SNK805 with 7S26 movement by giving it a thorough shaking for two minutes having worn it all day. Left it undisturbed on a flat surface and it ran for 44 hours 56 minutes.
While an interesting experiment, the problem I have with it is the winding made by "shaking the watch in a circular fashion".
That doesn't happen IRL, where auto watches are winded mostly by turning the wirst, about 45°, or swinging the arm while walking. More than making complete turns, the rotor IRL makes back-forth for, at best, 45° degrees at a time.
Ray romano of watch science.
Love your collection!
I was pleased you did this experiment. It confirms what a already suspected. Don't buy an automatic without handwinding if it's not the only one you own. That's why i choose th Orient Mako II over the SKX009. I really don't like the grinding sound of handwinding the Orient movement, but it performs outstanding. Looking at the succes of the SKX models, you would say Seiko would mount the 4R35 and lift the price a little. But they probably never will. And that's too bad.
They should, but that might hurt the sales of their other more expensive divers that all have the 4r35. One good thing is they are starting to put 4r35s in some seiko 5s. Like the blue one in the video. I also recently got a seiko bottle cap that has a 4r35 too. Hopefully I can get around to reviewing that one next month.
At some point I should get an SKX to review, it seems to be what everyone does. But I don't really want one because of the movement. Maybe I should just do a video on that.
Cheers!
@Truthfears Guilty g shock atomic. They sync once a day with the atomic clock
This test confirms nothing.
Hell Ya! That Seiko with the Blue dial was a Beat. Great Video and Thanks for sharing.
Thanks. That Seiko is great, and I assume you mean beast. Still haven't got around to reviewing yet. But Hopefully soon. Thanks again!👍
I designred an auto winder phor use in the automobile. .
Can't decide iph I should use the steering wheel...the tires ... or simply harness the awesome power phound in the suspension while negotiating Milwaukee pot holes.
I lived in Janesville for a few years... so I have to go with the pot holes. Especially right after the snow thaws.
"I love the smell of science in the morning" *cinematically sips piss on the rocks
It's Mountain Dew baby...
Just ordered a Seiko 5 with the 7s26, I have a san martin with the Nh35, am liking these cheaper movements.
Which one did you order.
@@RelativeTime SNKE53K1
In my experience one must shake the 7S26 needs 3 minutes to be fully wound. That’s not much walking. Thanks for trying. Interesting
The Seiko 5 does not require only counterclockwise. The magic arm, or whatever it is called, uses both directions.
Well, that's very interesting now. I was thinking of adding that green Seiko 5 to my collection that also contains several Vostok Amphibias. I always had a gut feeling though, that if I also bought the Seiko 5 , it would effectively more or less duplicate the efficiency functionality of the Vostoks - but without the hand winding and 200m water resistance. Both the Seiko (37mm diameter) and the Vostok (39mm diameter) would wear kind of similar on my 6.5 inch wrist - both comfortable - but the Seiko would indeed wear slightly smaller on the wrist than the Vostok. So what to do? Since I do like the look of the Seiko 5, I think I'll eventually buy it anyway and stick it on a NATO strap. The Swatch Sistem 51 test result also looks promising, but I won't push the button on that yet because of the larger case diameter and longer lug-to-lug measurement.
Thanks for the interesting video - well thought out and very helpful when making a buying decision!
Lots of work put into this episode! I like your Hamilton a lot. I like both backdrops...from upstairs or with your dog in the background. He must have been busy during filming. It's not without wonder that ETA produces solid results.
I distracted her with some bone bones. She did come up at one point at started shaking her collor to get attention, so I almost had some blooper footage of that. But left it out. Although if you listen closely starting about 4:55 you can hear her color jingling. She was trying to get my attention when I was recording audio.
I've had that hamilton for a while, but haven't reviewed it. I keep putting it off. it's really beautiful. And I do need to review more eta movements in general.
Thanks again, and cheers!
Great Video, ticks my OCD boxes for sure, I have the 805, great honest little watch, I read this somewhere about the design philosophy for this watch, That it's considered a 3rd world watch, not in a derogatory way, but as a watch that requires very little human interaction, needs to be rock solid reliable as you will not be able to service it, it's meant to be your one watch, worn day in and day out and just keep going, no matter what you throw at it. To be honest I like the watch even more in that light.. again good video and thanks!
Thanks! In one of my other videos someone commented that he found out Gene Kranz, who was the Flight Director of the Apollo missions at NASA, wore a Seiko 5. I believe his background was in Engineering, so this makes perfect sense to me. My father was also an engineer, and I learned from him that often times the best solution, is the most simple and direct.
So I can totally see how that would be the design philosophy behind them, and why some would love them for that.
Thanks again, Cheers!
The 7S26C is eminently serviceable, but when the cost of service exceeds the replacement cost, a new movement or an entirely new watch is often the better option. The 7S26 movement and its predecessors as well as successors are known to run for 10 years or more without the need for service. It’s kinda like the VW Bug of watch movements.
I always considered Vostok to be the VW bug of watches. Although, that's more because the cult following reminds me of those that love old VWs. 😋
Relative Time yes, I was referring to the movement not so much the watch, so let’s call it Seiko’s version of an air-cooled boxer engine that VW used in some form for nearly 70 years - they’re cheap, plentiful and virtually indestructible and you don’t have to send them to Switzerland for service. Volkswagen, the people’s car, Seiko 5, the people’s watch. 😉
Seiko SNKE49K1 with 7S26 movement never gives me the 40 hour power reserve any idea it only lasts 26 hours or less, NH35 does better in terms of power reserve
Excellent experiment!
I love Mountain Dew also.
Nectar of the GODS...
Really?! I must give it a try. ;-)
Yeeeaaaah! Cheers!
Yeah we like Mountain Dew in Sweden too. Cherry is my favorite.
Thank god! I thought he was drinking his"own brand"
Great video! I recently bought a Seiko SNK 803 and I have noticed that the watch stops and reserve doesn't last all day. I don't know if this is winding enough with a quick shake. I also have an Orient Kamasu and I don't see that problem. This video have me a couple of ideas to continue testing my SNK to make sure it's Good or if I need to return for warranty. Hoping it doesn't speed up or slow down.
I just ordered the StarKing AMO187 based on seeing your earlier review of the AM0184 and recommendations...but that it needed a more modern face. Thus the 187 choice. So, I am guessing I'll
need to stay on top of keeping it wound. Thanks for your expert reviews and recommendations!
As long as you wear it, it should be fine. Hopefully you will like the AM0187. I ordered one right before the last sale ended. Or at least I thought I did. I accidentally ordered the AL0187, which is the ladies version. So my wife got a new watch. Haven't decided if I'll review it yet. But the added texture does make the dial more interesting.
Awesome presentation
Thanks a lot
That was fun and interesting. I have subscribed.
Thank you. And welcome to the channel. Most of my videos are reviews, but I need to do another like this. I was going to do a followup testing Seiko Kinetics against automatics. But it just didn't work. I was trying to use my winder to charge the kinetics, but for some reason kinetics really really don't like winders.
The kinetic needs to have the capacitor replaced with a modern rechargeable battery. It's on my to do list.
Hello Shane.
I am expecting an SNK805 anyday in the mail now. I got as a second casual wearer.
Will wear it out and about for a week before checking accuracy and power reserve.
I mean wao. I like it. Just keep doing the stuff like this and share for us to see it and again some knowledge and enjoy.
Thanks, appreciate it.
so not having hand winding only works if you only own and wear one watch. Well if you have two and one is a dress watch that gets used seldomly you'll still be past the 40 hours, you'll still need to wind it. So just pull the SNK out of the drawer, give it a few "seiko shakes" set the time and go out for the event knowing that until you take it off it'll be fine.
to me your experiment only demonstrated that your "movment winding" only partially wound the watch. Will the SNK benefit from crown winding ? Well perhaps, but 1) at what cost and 2) at that extra maintenance issues?
lastly I thought it was really hard to find your data, there was so much "Walter Cronkite" and the presentation of data was mixed in the middle with no clear markers I got lost (even listening all the way through I had to go back and check.
but thanks for doing this.
Initially I thought of it as a fun practical test. Just curious to see what would happen. To be honest I never anticipated this many people viewing it. Recently I've been thinking about coming back to this with different movements and a more rigid testing methodology.
I just got mine Seiko 5 Sports SNZG15J1 (made in japan) , my very first real watch. Paid $120 usd + VAT. I do love the look and size. I find its size more universal rather than SNK805's ones. I don't know how it will come along with my two Timex Expedition digital vibro and analog/digital combo one... but for sure I will figure it out how to handle the lack of hand winding on my Seiko.
The lack of hand winding is more a nuisance. But really only an issue if your trying to keep multiple automatics going continuously. For me it's more of an issue when I'm trying to do accuracy tests on multiple watches at once for this channel.
That, and for any Vostok that has a date. If it stops, and the date is more then a few days behind, it can be a little bit annoying to reset and get going.
Thanks for watching. Cheers!😀
I don't think the 7S26 is very efficient at winding. I've had 3 and all of them, after 4-6 months stopped running overnight after wearing all day. That seems to indicate that wearing, say, 16 hours a day isn't enough to make up for the 8 hours of not wearing and they are slowly winding down.
How about a automatic watch winder the the one that runs in a case?
Thanks! I really liked the topic and demonstration. What I noticed is that it’s difficult for me to even pick up my dead SKX without it beginning to run from it’s dead stopped condition. That is not my experience with my two ETA autos. They take deliberate effort to get them going. Not an experiment but a consistent observation and experience. So I’m thinking another aspect to the test of efficiency is that of responsiveness of motion rather than length of charge.
That's a good idea. I'll think about how to do that. I've been meaning to do some sort of follow up. I tried to do one focusing on Seiko Kinetics vs the Seiko Autos, but didn't get very far. I was going to use a winder to keep it more exact, but Seiko Kinetics do not like winders. Cheers!
I will be sure to watch it. I think the most useful aspect to handwinding on an auto is to get it going from the dead stop. The absence of handwinding on the 7s26 is not missed by me due to its sensitivity of motion; pick up my SKX, put it on and it’s ticking! Love it!
Is higher efficiency always a plus? Any automatically winding watch needs some mechanism to prevent over winding. If a watch is way more efficient at winding than it needs to be, then that safety valve may wear prematurely.
That's a good point. Not sure.
Is that mountain dew Shane??? Or like me do you prefer a mellow yellow....just because it’s called mellow yellow😉
I’m going to try a little of this myself. I’ve got A couple of dozen Seiko and micro brand watches(Seiko movements) I think 9 different movements/variants in all. Going to start with fully winding and/or shaking using a box winder On all of them and letting them run. Thinking three times/tests in all...Then some experimenting from there.
Thanks for the fun piece...I always enjoy your channel!
Mountain Dew. I never quite warmed up to Mellow Yellow. Although my favorite soda is Ruby Red Squirt, but it’s pretty hard to find.
Give it a shot. I’ve been meaning to revisit this at some point. Initially I was going to try it again, but compare normal Seiko and Kinetic Seikos. But it didn’t get very far. I underestimated how much Kinetics hate winders.
Seiko 5 is Awesome but I think Chinese market is really going to affect their sales in the near future. Most of the dressy Seiko 5 cost 90-130 dollars depending on the refference number and all are housing 7s26, in the other hand many Cadisens, Guanqin and Pagani Design watches that are under 70 dollars house superior Seiko NH36 thatbhas hacking and handwiding and on top of that look amazing. Seiko should really drop Seiko 5 prices or improve their movements.
Seiko has been revamping there line up, but they don't seem to care much on recapturing the affordable buyers.
You, sir, earned a "like" due to your beaker mug.
Awesome! Thank you.
So seiko 5 are only clockwise winding or both
I believe it’s both.
Your communication skills are impeccable ! If your comfortable doing so, pls share your occupation with us. If you prefer to keep that private, that's ok too. Great reviews.
Thanks! I'm always a little cryptic, cause you never know who is out there. But I've said it before that my background is as a scientist. Specifically a Chemist.
Cheers!
@@RelativeTime I suspected such given your factual style. The lab flask was a possible hint as well. You can also blend abstract with the empirical which is a good strength. I transitioned from the medical laboratory to human resources so I relate to this. Keep up the great work.
I'm not sure the Kinetic can be directly compared at all, it won't charge as fast as the others but when it is charged it has way more power reserve than any of the mechanicals. Not the best watch to buy if you have a large collection and wear it rarely, but for a single watch collection it would make sense.
Personally I went with a Seiko Solar for the quartz watch, in my collection, if I'm not wearing it I can just sit it next to a window every couple of weeks for a day and it'll get more than enough charge.
That is pretty much sums up my thoughts on Kinetics. My 2 are almost always dead, and rarely wear them. Mostly because the double ticking annoys me. Yet if I don't wear them, they never charge enough to go back to the single tick.
I tried doing a follow up on this. But focused on the Kinetics. Was going to use my winder and see how much charge they got off so many rotations. Didn't work out. I didn't realize how much Kinetics don't like winders. Each attempt they would only run for a few minutes. I have a few theories, but I'd love to really find out why they don't work with them.
Fascinating , thank you.
It amazes me that people have such issues with the 7s26 not hand winding. The seiko 5 line, and the 7s26 specifically, was always intended to be a solid everyday watch for those who can't afford a top end timepiece (or many of them). They assume that if you can afford better you should buy something better. Imho they are great in that role just how they are...simple and efficient. It seems illogical to fault something when used outside its intended purpose even when it performs its intended purpose admirably.
You have a point. The thing is that while the 7s26 was, and is a budget movement. At this point, the 4r36 (nh36) movements could also be considered budget movements. Seiko has introduced a number of Seiko 5s with the 4r movements (I've actually reviewed 3). Yet more to the point is that outside Seiko you can get a watch with a NH series movement for the same or cheaper than many of the Seiko 5s with the 7s26.
So for me, a 7s movement is a negative when you can find alternatives at the same price with a better movement.
The lack of hand winding dose not bother me too much however the lack of hacking can be a pain. Very interesting video
I like to have hacking. It helps my OCD when setting the watch. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd rather have hand winding. Thanks and Cheers!
Nothing drives me more insane than not being able to set my second hand.
Watches with the Seiko 7S26 movement are really only meant for wearing it everyday, so hand winding is irrelevant. I have two watches with this movement and only wear one day to day while the other just sits in my watch box. However, shaking the watch a few times is actually pretty efficient, but hand winding is ideal if you want more than one automatic watch.
I am actually amazed at how lite shaking is required to wake one up. It may not be as convenient for a collector, but it really is a well engineered piece of technology. Cheers!
Very interesting! 😃
Does the Seiko 5 have bi-directional winding?
Yes!
Nice job but not sure what to do with this :) one thing I find interesting is that whenever I buy a new Seiko auto, it's never very accurate for a day or so, until it gets fully wound. Then it's spot on.
Honestly I'm not sure what to get out of it either. Other then Seiko's winding is not bad, but having hand winding is a little bit better.
I just thought it would be a fun lets just see what the results are video. I was driving home across country when I came up with the idea, and I didn't think I saw anything quite like it before. I honestly didn't think many people would ever watch it. That I would wind up with a few thousand views after a month. But it hit 10k in the first week.
I have an skx009 (same movement) and I have to do a 'Seiko shuffle' for about a minute each morning and evening or else I will be lucky to get 24 hours out of it. the other thing is that it loses or gains time (about +/- 6 seconds a day) depending on what angle i lay it at overnight.
Duncan Keable if you’re getting +/- 6 seconds a day, that’s well within the specs for that movement. Rolex’s “superlative chronometers” are chosen because they get something like +/- 2 seconds per day. Quartz is the only way to get better accuracy without spending a fortune!
You should service it, it shouldn't need that much help.
You must not move very often at all then. I easily get 40 hours with my skx, just wearing it at home hardly moving at all.
Cool cup! Enyway i think will be better to count rotation of the watch than shaking it one minute.
You'r correct. If I do something similar I'll use my winder to make it consistent. Although I've found out that Seiko Kinetics don't like winders very much. Not sure about the Swatch either, but those were added out of curiosity.
Anecdotally, my seikos start moving the second I pick up the watch, while my ETA powered watches take some effort to get going. There's something to the magic lever, although it really doesn't matter in the end. I've never had an issue with shaking a watch for like 5 seconds and then putting it on - always seems to work fine this way.
I've noticed that too. Miyota movements seem to be pretty quick to move as well. But eta needs more of a Wake up call before it starts to move.
So why they say about 40h power reserve for Seiko SNK805?
Well on average when fully wound it should be about a 40h power reserve. I wasn't fully winding these in any way. Plus each watch is going to be slightly different so one maybe 39 and another might be closer to 41.
@@RelativeTime To wind them up to 40h you must run a marathon with this watch on your wrist, twice.
It is enough for me to wear my Seiko5 at work for eight hours and it is wound up to the end. Checked several times.
@@marduj2768 if your work is running marathons it could be, but if you work at PC and do not walks a lot they barely live through night
It's not a marathon, but I move a lot, I don't walk as much as I move with my hands, but I don't have a problem with winding the clock even on those days when I'm not working.
Hi, I love your videos, they are really detailed and enterteining. I have two of your watches the Seiko SNK805 and the vostok amphibia.
I have the seiko for around 9 months, I have changed the strap but I have the feeling I don't quite find a strap color that fits with the green dial color. I ve been looking without any luck for videos about this model and the possible straps available. Since you have a green seiko and you know a lot about watches... could you do a video about it?
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. I've been thinking of doing a couple short videos on straps, but not on any specific watch. one on different kind of straps that are available, and maybe a short review on a few nicer straps.
As for the SNK805, I really haven't found anything that quite matches that dial. Even the stock strap is a different color green. In that case I think the best thing you can do is actually contrast it. I would think a brownish leather. I've shown this strap on the snk805 a few times, and people keep asking about it.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AFB5H38/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
So far that's the one I've found that looks the best on it.
Thanks again, Cheers!
Thanks for the link Shane! I can't wait for that straps video 😃
beautiful videos... definitely subscribe
Thanks & welcome!
How about who is more accurate in water resistant and does it make a difference in iso certified be a great experiment.
That would make a good experiment. Might require some specialized equipment, and some expertise. Thanks for the idea.
Relative Time no problem. Orient has a dive watch but seiko is iso certified that being said how to do a real test if 200m range
Hand winding is indeed a crucial and necessary function, and even before I became a full on watchmaker , just the simple pleasure of winding my watches was sought after.... instantly voiding Any SKX for me , and has always made me Wonder why this piece was so well liked for the price ( especially now as the prices have risen) ... I’m curious if the STARKING HI - beat you reference is just the Seagull ST2130, DIRECT ETA clone ( legal clone , as patents expired allowing the copying of the design) or potentially a HANGZOU, or NANKING MOVEMENT? The ST2130 IS BY FAR THE BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK !! They can be had for as little as $46. , parts are direct swap with ETA, and like for like, the 28,800 beats with hack in hand winding and the exact same architecture. This is by far my movement of choice, with the Miyota 9015 is somewhat distant second, and the new version 821A with hack and hand winding a very very close third to the 9015 as far as value proposition, quality, and overall performance
They say the Starking is their own thing, but I'm sure it's based off of something from ETA. Definitely agree with you on the 9015, one of the best value movements out there. Especially if the brand takes advantage of the thinner movement with their case.
I have a ongoing similar test going comparing Quartz to Quartz from DST change to DST change. Someone @ WUS had suggested that digital quartz should have less divination than Analog quartz. Not taking in consideration the atomic watches, my most precise and accurate Quartz is a Timex GMT Analog.
Interesting. I guess it could be possible that digital could be more accurate. I would assume on a digital the time is updated and stored in memory, then just displayed. Where an analog watch it just advances the hand and doesn't keep track of actual time. So their maybe some deviation between the different motors that might affect something... maybe. Would be interesting to see the results.
Relative Time ill share my results in November.
Great idea here.I have a Seiko albeit old 7009 guts but doesn't wind very well worn if that makes sense? Sure I can shake it around to top the barrel up but other than that is pretty poor .The rotor does have a lot of runout though through bearing wear so guess an unfair comparison as you suggested via overall age and hence wear.Cheers.
Makes sense. Perhaps the gearing is getting a littel stripped. I was also thinking about the age of the spring itself. Over time, all the winding and unwinding will effect it. Or at least I think it does. Cheers!
@@RelativeTime Appreciate your reply.I have watched many tutorials and enjoy your new approach? I have ordered a new old rotor and bearing to try first .Easy job.Cheers.
u should use the winding box instead of you hand
Magic lever I think not fingers.. Please correct me
Half way down. Or just search for magic.
www.seikowatches.com/us-en/customerservice/knowledge/springdrive-knowledge
I hear people say both all the time. Although I think "Magic Fingers" was an old name for a bed that massaged you.
Try a watch winder .
intersting...why not use a watch winder for a set number of revolutions?
I thought about it briefly very early on, and then didn't really think about it again as I was moving forward. Basically my idea was to be a more practical example of an everyday person. Where the average person would be trying to keep it going, and may not have a winder. But everyone can do the shake it up.
I was also interested in seeing how the kinetic would perform along side the autos, and I know they don't do well on a winder. Not sure about the swatch, might have to test that on a winder some day and see. Cheers!
Tip... you can hack the 805 by back winding the time
It would be interesting to test also the Pagani design (cocktail time homage) if you still have it, because I think it uses similar to the miyotas unidirectional winding, similar to Starking winding. For seiko autos I have watches with 7s26 and NH35/6a, and the NH-s I never bother to hand wind. Some people say it is not good to wind an automatic watch, not to break the auto winding wheels, probably ok to wind very very slowly and carefully. So I don't use manual wind at all, despite that I don't wear a watch more than 1 day in a row. I adjust them every time.
I still have it. I haven't wore it much recently, but still have it. Wouldn't seem right to sell it since I had to jury rig a fix. I don't remember much about the movement in it, I'll have to take a second look.
Right now I'm wishing someone would make a guide to identifying Chinese movements.
@@RelativeTime It uses similar movement to my Parnis pilot watch:
postimg.cc/0MT9gWDK
postimg.cc/2bbCKRbf
My Parnis works fantastic. But of course these chinese movements can be good or bad, depending on the quality control and particular item. The most efficient are the magic lever movements, bidirectional winding. So for chinese watch is better to be with magic lever. But can also happen that even with magic lever it can be inefficient, because of bad made parts - for example I have such Ailang pilot watch, but such case is rare.
Just an idea: put them on watch winders for the same amount of time and then you test it, it would remove the human factor of the experiment.
That's the plan for any follow-up. I tried doing one of seiko kinetic vs autos. But don't work at all. I knew kinetics didn't like winders, but didn't know how much they didnt like them.
Snks809 made in?
Depends if you get the K or J models. J should be made in Japan, while I think K is Malaysia.
To a non-watch person, this would be the nerdiest video on planet earth 😂. Good video tho! Well done!
You could say that about a lot of my videos. 😎
Interesting video but if I'm honest I'm not too sure it's that useful. I mean I can't say I've ever fully wound a watch just to leave it. I wind it, then wear it which will obviously help keep it wound. Don't get me wrong as said it's interesting to know, and thank you for the video. But I'm not sure your results would put me off buying any of the watches or cause me worry. But love your channel and keep them coming ⌚👍
I think you have the right interpretation. I just thought this could make an interesting topic, and I didn't remember seeing anyone else do anything like it.
What I got from doing this, is that having hand winding is nice and I do prefer it. But that doesn't necessarily mean the older 7s26 is bad in anyway. There are a lot of great Seiko 5s out there with it, including the SKX.
Thanks for watching, I hope I'm keeping you entertained. 😀
You should've put them all on something like a 2x4 to wind them simultaneously to be more consistent
Hmmm then I could flip it around like one of those sign spinner guys. 😋
@@RelativeTime If all the watches get the same flips and flops, then you are more accurately measuring the relative efficiency of the bidirectional vs unidirectional winding. If you deliberately shook the unidirectional watches so the rotor only spun in the correct direction, then you are contriving a play to their strength (fixing the data).
@@DonaldPerley It was almost a year ago, but if I remember right I swung them all in the same direction. Counterclockwise, so that they would all charge.
Ideally, I'd like to revisit this sometime. But use a winder to standardize things.
Yikes the snk809 is $146 right now on amazon. Wish I picked it up when it was at $60
Try creation watches. $73.00 right now. www.creationwatches.com/products/seiko-automatic-watches-69/seiko-5-automatic-snk809-snk809k1-snk809k-21-jewel-mens-watch-1905.html
OUCH! thats nuts. It will come down, it always does. But that is crazy high. Beginning of the year I think it was right at 100, but it did drop back down. I think I looked a few weeks ago, and they were still close to $60.
Same here buddy!
You can buy them pre-owned and get them a little cheaper.
the blue snk807 is down to normal at $63. But the rest are still way up. Eventually they will come back down. These price spikes happen.
I don't see the point of hand winding anyway. You shouldn't have your watches running 24/7/365 and resetting a watch is a minute annoyance.The only reason I do like manual wind on automatics is because I like to feel the wind. Otherwise I don't see the point of manual winding an automatic.
For me, I appreciate it when I'm doing some accuracy testing on a few at the same time. But for more practical purposes I've also found it nice when traveling. Where I bring a more causal, and a dress watch.
You’re actually measuring two things in this experiment that are actually independent of each other. I think you’re confusing the efficiency of the winding mechanism versus the efficiency of the mainspring and movement. Hand winding may give you a fully wound mainspring faster and more efficiently than a watch wound via the shake. The real way to determine efficiency is to ensure a fully wound mainspring as the starting point in each watch. That will tell you the efficiency of the movement itself. You can really only compare the efficiency of the winding mechanism if you can accurately measure the turns per day, or TPD, to achieve a fully wound state. Many watch companies publish this as a range with the 7S26 and the like being anywhere from 650 TPD to 1000 TPD. I should add too that I’ve had multiple new Seikos with a fully wound 7S26C run for as little as 25 hours to as long as 47 which speaks to the variance in the efficiency of that movement in brand new state. A watch winder would have helped enormously in this experiment. Still, a very interesting take.
Thanks, and you are correct. Which I partially alluded to, but didn't explicitly say, when I talked about the two obvious flaws I saw. Specifically when I mentioned that everything should be the same age, I was alluding to the age and amount of use to the mainspring could effect the results. As well as having different beat rates, and complications would also effect how the power in the mainspring is utilized.
I should of been more specific and said that I was taking a practical approach to look at the efficiency of the system as a whole, rather then just talk about winding.
It would be interesting to look at the efficiency of both the winding, and the conversion of power from the mainspring. But I think it might be beyond my capabilities. I would think you would almost have to isolate each component somehow.
Making sure each was fully wound is a good idea, but I'm thinking that their may be variations in the length, and type of material used to make the mainspring from different manufactures. Such as longer spring, more power. Which is why I think the Swatch, as well as some Tissots have 80hr reserves. It's something I would have to look into.
Thanks for watching, and commenting. I wasn't aware that companies published specs on TPD. Cheers!
Relative Time yep, it’s a good experiment but lacking some controls. Isolating them would definitely be difficult though. I’m glad you undertook it because it’s thought provoking which makes for good CZcams viewing.
starking only got 16 hrs!? that's bad considering they put 36 hrs on spec sheet.
Well I know that particular starking has gone 36hr on a full charge. I tested it in my review. So I assume it only got half wound up. Which is strange considering the others were basically fully wound after 20 seconds. I guess that says something about it's winding mechanism.
The kinetic has a capacitor rather than a battery.
I know that they originally did, but I'm not sure if they still do. One of the reasons a lot of the original kinetics failed after about 8-10 years was a fault in the build of the original capacitors. I know, because I still have one. Yet I can't remember if I had it replaced with another capacitor or if the replacement part was a lithium-ion battery. It was whatever was going in the newer kinetics, and I'd have to go back and look.
Take away message: If you are a ONE watch kinda guy, then a non hand winding automatic watch is okay, as long as you wear the watch all the time. Even better, if you are a ONE watch kinda guy, buy a quartz (I know, heresy). If you are a MULTIPLE watch kinda guy, the hell with NON hand winding, non hackable watch movements. They are just a pain in the @$$.
The test was nonsense for the Kinetic. It has a rotor but is charging a battery, this would require electrical measuring too. The test would be valid for mechanical automatically winding movements ONLY.
Well as I said, it was more thrown in for curiosities sake. I wondered how it would fare under similar circumstances. But there isn't anything concrete here to be learned about it. Although in an abstract way they do operate similarly. Both convert kinetic energy from the rotor to potential energy for later use. One stored as compressed spring, the other as chemical energy in a battery.
I am curious and would like to figure out a good way to do some sort of efficiency testing on a kinetic. I tried to do a followup focusing on 2 kinetics vs 2 auto Seikos. Using a winder to rotate each a set number of times, and see how long each would last. But I failed to realize how much Kinetics don't respond to winders. In each instance both kinetics would run for a few minutes. I'm guessing it didn't like the slower rotation of a winder. Perhaps there is some voltage threshold the system has to overcome for the battery.
There are a lot of...not scientific errors you have made.
1. Shaking watches by hand. You will never shake 2 watches the same way. One faster the other slower, one stronger the other not so strong.
2. What made you decide to test 1 min of shaking against 20 sec of winding? What ypu are actually comparing here? Im assuming that you pulled those time values out of the air. What Im trying to say is: it is obvious that you will wind the watch better in 20 sec (again time interval of the winding is silly. You should base winding on the revolutions of the crown to make sure you are winding all watches the same) than shaking it for one minute.
In 20 sec of winding you can probably fully wind the watch lol.
It is still good to see that Seiko is efficient. But that's reallythe only conclusion one can take from your experiment.
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the video. Perhaps I should of said something in the video, but it's too late now. But keep in mind that my intent was to do a fun, short, and practical test on how the efficiencies of the various watches compare to one another. Rather then an exhaustive study into the nature of Seiko's mechanical systems. Which in all honesty is most likely left to someone with more experience and knowledge in movements or mechanical engineering.
Now as to your questions, and this may get a little longer then anyone really wants. So don't feel like you need to read it. But you took the time to comment, I owe it to you to take the time to respond.
1. I decided to shake the watches, rather then use a winder for a 2 reasons. The first, is I honestly thought it would be quickier and easier to do. But more importantly I also thought it was a more practical example. As not everyone has a winder, but everyone can shake their watch to get jump start it when it dies.
Now the inclusion of a biological system (myself) in any experimental procedure is not idea, as it will undoubtedly add inconsistencies to the result. And while those inconsistencies are impossible to remove, their are ways to reduce the impact on the results. Which I Implemented as follows:
A) Have the same person do all the testing, and try to be as consistent as possible.
B) Repeat the procedure multiple times and take the average. The more testing you can accomplish the better, but since I didn't want to do this endless. I initially set an n of 3. Which is the very minimum to achieve any results with some statistical significance.
Which is also why I showed the standard deviation in the initial table. Of which I am impressed at how low it was for both seikos automatics.
And C which actually leads to your second question. Testing for an appropriate amount of time. While 1 min was chosen as it's a nice round number. It also meet the criteria I was looking for. Run a test for too short a period of time, and the inconsistencies in my shaking method would be more pronounced. Shake for too long, and you run the risk of fully winding the watch, and possible over winding the watch. Which would be more a test of its power reserve then, efficiency of it's winding mechanism.
2. Your suggestion for counting the crown revolutions is a good one. One that I did not think of. Although I would have to think about whether or not different size crowns would impact the results as well. My gut reaction is to say no, but I'd have to think about it.
As for the 20 seconds. Again it was a nice round number, and I thought it met the previous criteria. Although as you can see it did wind (and possibly over wind) most of the watches. But the point of the last part was not to show any real detail, or to compare the efficiency of the various winding mechanisms. Rather to simply and practically show that if you have to give a watch some power by hand. Having hand winding is better then not having hand-winding.
Which honestly, is the only real takeaway anyone should get from the video. Now thank you for watching, and thank you for taking the time to comment. It shows you truly have a passion for watches. Cheers!
@@RelativeTime Hi!
First of all allow me to thank you for such an extensive explanation. I am really impressed.
I did enjoy your video an I agree with everything you said in your response. Your test still showed how good seiko movements are.
Regarding the crown revolutions...It is too late here for me to figure out as if diameter of the crown would affect the winding ;) I think it would but I can't justify why haha. But the variation between crown sizes is probably much smaller than variation you introduced by winding for 20 sec.
As you said though, this was to prove that manual wind is much more efficient in getting the watch going and I think we can all agree that you proved that point.
Apologies for critique. Quality of tests, validations and variation in them is my field of work and study. Cant help myself but to notice possible sources of error in the test.
Another idea for shaking watches would be taping them to the old washing machine hahaha.
Anyway, keep those vids coming!
And good luck with your experiments.
Ps. Whatever you are drinking there....looks dangerous ;)
Thanks for replying back. And I hope you didn't get any sense that I was trying to be snotty or anything. Just trying to explain my limited logic.
I can understand when it's your line of work. If I'm being honest my background is actually in Science. So the quality of the work is really student science fair at best. And you really could poke holes in it all day long. Which is why I wanted to point out the 2 biggest flaws I saw in the video, before anyone else could.
I just thought it was more of a fun quick video to make. 😋
I haven't thought of any more experiments. But some point I'd like to do some more science based videos. Like going over how and why lume works. Or go into what atomic time actually is.
And it was just Mt. Dew in my old beaker mug. Haven't done it in years. But I used to put Mt. Dew in that mug and bring it with me whenever I had to interview someone. Just to see if they would say something, or ignore that I was doing something odd. 😋
@@RelativeTime haha mountain dew looks toxic in that beaker.
Did not get any snotty vibe ;)
It is actually fun to have a nice chat with someone on CZcams for a change.
And apologies if my initial comment came out...a bit...snotty ;)
Yeah or vid about different lumme technologies!