Bible CONTRADICTIONS in the Torah: Did MOSES Really Write It?
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2020
- Are there contradictions in the Bible, and did Moses really write the Torah or Pentateuch? In this video, Dr. Josh highlights some of the problems in the first five books of the Bible and what they mean for who wrote the text.
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Brilliantly presented and well argued
Last I checked myths aren't very good at writing things down. Still waiting for the Thor memoir.
Great vid Dr. J, thanks.
It's my belief that every tribe of Israel had it's own stories and traditions, with Abraham considered as a common ancestor. During exile every tribe was forced to work together and told about his stories and prophets, and they stitched it all into one narrative. God was angry for some reason, so better gather all information, stories, and prophecies they could find why he could be that angry and what they did wrong.
But because some tribes shared some stories but in different versions, one tribe says : There were 10 generations between Noah and Abraham. The other tribe says : it was 2000 years. So they had to calculate everybody in and gave people impossible long lives.
Every tribe had another idea about god. Some believed he was a storm god. Others a volcano god. Others a sky god. etc. Not even all tribes might have shared the Moses story or be monotheist, since during exile one of the prophets gets a message that Jerusalem is now inhabitet by people that claim to descent from Abraham but did not follow the Mosaic law.
The God of the north was more of a physical figure like Zeus and Baal, the southern god was more formless. The Canaanites build holy boxes to house their gods on transport from one place to another. Perhaps this was later mixed with the southern traditions that revolved around strict religious laws and out of it came a common origin story in the form of Mozes and the Ark.
Exile as in the forced deportation by the Assyrians to Babylon of the Israelite elites?
This is great. Thanks for the hard work!
These are just old stories from an ancient culture. Contradictions should be expected; it should not be surprising in any way.
Only surprising thing is that there are still powerful forces invested in propagating, with all available resources, the misconception that these stories, from an ancient culture, are historical accounts of events that actually transpired, in real time, here on planet Earth. Those who want others to believe this are willing to throw out the baby with the bath water. They are willing to allow their children to be ignorant of the scientific method and real critical thinking skills, so it will never occur to them to think, in such a way that they could challenge this view.
Check out Hobby-Lobby mass purchase of antiquities with no papers of provenance. They put these things in their Museum of the Bible( papyri, cuneiform tablets, other artifacts, which they know nothing about), and use them to, somehow, prove the Bible is the verifiable word of YHWY. What's weird is that for under, and un-educated children--this is the only narrative they may ever be exposed to--and that is by design!
So, if contradictions are to be expected as you say, then the Bible is NOT the truth.
and also the people who transalted the book tampered with it bc the bible mentions the book of jasher i beleive thrice yet its nowehere to be found inside other than in older verisons like the ethiopian bible. Funny enough one of the books they took out 1 maccabees 3:12 prophecies them doing this. Also the fact the book was translated like over 5 times, you can only expect such "inconsistencies" Either way there is up to 4 fulfilled prophecies in the book that I've found, and sooner or later there will be even more in regards revelations.
@@russellmillar7132stories don't need to be literal to have value. In fact most ideals are not.
@@josephang9927 I agree. Stories don't need to be historically true to be of value. That's lucky because the stories in the Bible are, for the most part, not historically accurate. If they have value, it's not as history.
Loved this. Off to watch the full version!
Great work Dr. Josh. Loved it.
Two traditions? More than one author? What kind of diabolical conspiracy theory is this? 😳
I've honestly never met an OT scholar who actually believed Moses wrote the Pentateuch. I have no idea why this tradition lives on.
You've only met serious OT scholars, and not those from the Evangelization University of Pseudopolis.
@@rursus8354 😆😂
Rursus one of the pastors at the baptist church near me considers himself an Old Testament scholar. Only went to a Bible college, where they teach YEC.
@@oopsiepoopsie2898 If I had a dollar for every time I've seen an uneducated pastor claim to be an expert I could pay off my student loans from getting a real seminary education 😆😅🤣😭😭
Justin Holmes yeah there is this girl she is the daughter of one of the pastors. She is going to bible college, I feel so bad she is going to have a fake education.
Dr Josh, you are clearly a generous scholar. Aside from the individual doublets, contradictions and inconsistencies, how do apologists argue for these in general? What I mean is, why would Moses consistently write doublets, contradictions and inconsistencies in the first place? What would be the purpose of doing so?
There a lots of reasons for these apparent doublets--in some of the cases these are just separate events (e.g. calling Sarah his sister instead of his wife) that were similar because it highlights that Abraham and Isaac repeat the same mistakes and never reach a point of moral perfection. The other ones are most likely literary forms; repetitions to describe the same event in different ways, with both narratives highlighting different aspects. E.g. in the Proverbs 6:16 it says, "there are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to Him..." I think the person writing knew how to count, but the increasing (or "contradicting") numbers are used for effect. Usually the first narrative will be more general, and the second will add additional details--this is a common literary form used throughout the Bible and probably in other ancient near eastern texts as well. I don't see how saying something like "Bob went to the store to buy groceries" and then "Bob went to the store to buy groceries and cookies" would be considered a contradiction or inconsistency. Also, places and people often have more than one name; there were lots of different languages that these people spoke and/or were surrounded by. We even do this nowadays--biographies often introduce people using their full name and then refer to them every time afterwards by their last name.
Wonderful episode well done
I am curious. Do many Semitic languages have special endings for dual groupings. I know Arabic does. I am a bit rusty on my limited Hebrew but I seem to remember a similar feature. The ancients who stitched together stories from differing traditions may also have been inclined to focus on groupings of two. What might they have been trying to communicate?
The title of Joel Baden's book mentioned in the video: The Composition of the Pentateuch.
Dr. Joshua , Thanks ,
Thanks Josh
Sigmund Freud wrote an excellent analysis of the character of Moses. His conclusion was that Moses was two people who were confused by later people’s. There is little to no chance that Moses wrote the stories which predated his birth, and were common throughout the near east bfore there were even Hebrews.
@S Robin You can’t base all your ‘arguments’ on the same source without sounding monomaniacal. Which you are of course, but still.
@S Robin Since you can’t answer you deflect. Looking at many sources and using comparisons is how historical research is done. Since the Bible you read obsessively is actually not a book at all originally, it’s not much of a surprise that the bits still existing of scrolls recording entirely different events and ages have inconsistencies. There are many many works of literature from the near east that were totally unknown until cuneiform was deciphered in the middle of the twentieth century. All of them for the most part predating the Hebrew Scriptures. Biblical scholars are just the Christian variant of Talmudic scholars, whom you imitate. And exactly as relevant to the world at large.
@S Robin Yahweh is the Hebrew that gets mispronounced as jehovah. Your etymologies are a ridiculous mishmash. I suggest you try Wikipedia instead of ‘research’ via ouija board.
Without even mentioning the fact that Moses' own DEATH is recorded in the Torah. ;)
Your saying this dusprives the Torah if so what do you believe I’n
@@awaiting_YHWH_return Please write your vomments
@@awaiting_YHWH_return : PLEASE attempt to write your comment that at least approximates proper correct written English. As a guide, i will rewrite your wretched current post from above:
"You are writing this as if the Torah depicting the death of Moses rebuts the idea of Mosaic authorship. Since you reject the idea, how do you explain how the texts of the Torah came to be written?"
How about the one where it says that the northern kingdom acquired schechem through the use of violent force in one place and it says they purchased it in another
Dr. Josh, I am curious as to your thoughts of the more ultra minimalist Jesus mythicist theories that are seemingly regaining popularity recently, albeit perhaps largely outside of academic circles.
hi the full video is not public.was this intentional?
Assyriology scholars wouldn't find doublet tablets hard to swallow...
I wonder why Christian textual literalists get so wound up about droll scrolls?
The full version is private
Random question, as you studied the name El Shaddai, is there any evidence that the reference to El Shaddai is actually referring to another Canaanite origin deity? Only because I can’t find anything concrete on what Shaddai actually means. Thank you
There are theories but no consensus. My favourite one is God of Breasts (I'm not even kidding)
Mountains or breast. Breasts because the idea of mountains could've been that they were the earths breasts.
I was wondering have any plans on interviewing Israel finkelstein
Did Moses coexist with raptor Jesus?
Exodus 2:18"and when they came to reeul their fathers"
Reeul was their grandfather while jethro who was also known as hobeb was the father in law of moses this is evidenced in these verses "Even from the children of hobab the father in law of moses " (Judges 4:11)
"and moses said unto hobab tthe son of reeul the midnianite " (Numbers 10:29)
Remember always read the Oral Torah :) what i wrote is the commentary of "Ibn Ezra " translated to English
Please share my two brief videos with others.
According to the Bible, King Solomon had constructed the First Temple and it had taken 7 years to build it. Did he really built it by himself, or by the construction workers?
by Jinns
Any book that could be made clearer from being edited by basically any highschool graduate needs a model other than "written by a god."
No one is claiming Bible is written by God.
Give your mate (in the American sense) a big hug.
When I read exodus 2:18 in the CEPHER translation I clearly understand that Reuel was the father of the women by the well. ….. not all, but many open questions are translations mistakes!
Great one!
Indeed, Derek!
Throwing verses is not very honest without context of the text. For example, circumstances and rites can change by time.
Care to be more precise?
@@DigitalHammurabi sure. The verses about what is "inside" or "outside" the sanctuary vary a lot because the temple was not yet present, it was the tabernacle,whoch was basically a tent, so it was not always put the same way.
It’s funny how many people believe the Ten Commandments but can only recite three of them.
Jesus Himself was certainly convinced of Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, and individuals who disagree with Him are guilty of brazen audacity.
Actually, you don't know what Jesus himself said or did. You only know what someone anonymously wrote down and claimed he said or did, several decades later.
Moses supposes his toeses are roses!
The 10 commandments come from the babylonia code of hammurabi. Genesis, the epic of gilgamesh. Moses was a nasi a high ranking rabbi, the ebi nari, kush of sudan. The royal tombs of elephantine with buried cows amongst the bones.
Molech his son nabu. The ishtar gate (still standing) at nimrud.
The old people in Israel the aramaics and the peleste of the levant. Who were these people of ugarit? There was obviously ancient beliefs before judah ism (judah nasi and Xerxes I).
The bloodline royal. Code gigas, code Aleppo, the basis of the talmud of babylonia 500AD. Satan's bible.
Deadsea scolls, the sons of god..... not of the devil.
Oh...papyrus of Ani?
@@LuluLaRue very unfortunate. I had written something for you and it was deleted.
A crap deranged version not in detail.
The book of the dead circa 1500BC so fits in with the babylonian invasion of Egypt. Pottery 3 billion years old in south Africa.
Please refer to leviticus regarding molech.
M ol and the royal bloodline.
The 'books' are the only way to get rid of them.
There are a few, one in the Pope's house. Dark pope. The new dark pope sosa. Latin sabines sabbatean.
Adolf ashkenatzi zionist awarded iron cross. They are not jews.
Old testament relatives marry, as royals do, all the same.
Greek frankists, the knights starting with the teutonic knights..... kinghts of st john (acre) of Jerusalem and malta.
Roman same - with titles like henry VI emperor of Rome and king of Jerusalem.
Bethem jehovah all found in the grimoires demons.
Solomon arc.
Sorry, i cannot do any better without it being deleted. They must be banished using the books, i know of 3 books.
Not the book of the dead. You summon with that and king Solomon knows the consequences.
@@nataliee5501 thank you for your recommendations
@@LuluLaRue i am not talking about the book of the dead, that is to summon. Just by reading the words in your head you will summon.
You will perish.
The books i speak of are for the enlightened ones. They know what to do. I hope i have made myself clear. For you will not know what hell is like. Solomon thought he was on control, but he was not. To even look upon these books people die, if they are not enlightened.
If you want to do something, get strong, there is a channel dr virtual 7.
Meditate every day. Be an enlightened one.
@@LuluLaRue respond and tell me you understand. Be enlightened attain your power, then you can, do you hear me. Get your power first. The light Lu Lu.
Maybe Moses compiled Genesis based off of multiple oral traditions
If anyone wants to know what the bible really means and where it came from they should come to you guys and other scholars not to some pastor shoes been to a bible college you and others you have on your show are the real experts
This is what is called "low-level". One word to describe these pseudo-scholars = ultracrepadarians
Book of Numbers: I finally checked it out...the census...lots and lots of Hebrews. Seems like the Egyptians must have been good to their slaves. They had lots of live stock. Based on what's expected of ritual sacrifice and other fees, they had plenty of "shekels of silver and gold" , as well as plenty "ephahs of barley". But one moment; the "jealousy Ordeal"-- 5:11-31-- I was taken by surprise! Keeping in mind that Hebrew men could have as many wives, and concubines, and "maidservants" , as might be afforded. If a mans wife is "defiled" with another man but it is never known by evidence or testimony--but the husband still has feelings of jealousy...well, I won't spoil it, check it out for yourself! Peace!!
.. a good one to use with people who claim "abortion is murder."
Yeah? Well, here's your god commanding a ritual that will cause a woman to lose her baby "if she is guilty" simply on the basis of her husband's suspicion.
There is no provision for a jealous wife to challenge her husband.
@@RustyWalker No way! My name was Rusty until I was about 22, still is w/ family members. Yeah, how many ways is this wrong? I would love to hear how this doesn't show the chattle nature of the status of women within Judeo-Christian values.
@@russellmillar7132 That's funny. My family don't actually call me Rusty that much. It's my mates that used it first.
@@RustyWalker Hi Rusty, I got a right telling off by a xtian on another thread on this channel for using the bitter water verse appears it is totally debunked,
Of course I did him the curtesy of reading the link, ooops not a good idea.
Evangelical pro life site and scholar, the take was interesting, suggesting with good reasoning that the curse did not cause a spontaneous abortion but made a woman barren.
Problem was the context did not make sense and according to the rest of tha article even if it was abortion there was no problem because God gives life so he can take it away, charming. Oh and it was all the women's fault.
@@RustyWalker And, it occurs to me: what if the wife didn't actually stray, and the baby aborted by this process is actually the child of the man who brought his wife in to be tested--is this also a type of godly paternity test?
How did Moses climb Mount Sinai in sandles 7497 Feet and carry 2 stone tablets (Ten Commandments) down?
Why is there not two perfect missing imprint from the side of Sinai?
We have helicopters scouting the mountain but so far no trace of such nonsense.
because real mount sinai is in SAUDI ARABIA, Just search it on youtube
@@towards_submission No matter where you want to tell us Mt. Sinai is there are not missing rock tablets from the mountain. If you're got any proof of what you are claiming please let the world know.
@@youknowcrimedontpay9257 plz watch this and u will see all the proofs there:
czcams.com/video/YjrxHqNy5CQ/video.html
Moses is fiction. Like Remus and Romulus.
Evidence required.☝🏼
@shemaiah israel Who wrote Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
The bible is no different then the story book of Harry Potter.
What is more believable is DJT has not yet been indicted by the DOJ.
It won't be a miracle when he's wearing shiny silver cuffs...
There are too many similarities between Greek mythology and the Torah, the creation of the world by the appearance of the Earth in the Chaos, 2 times accounting about creation of humanity, the worldwide flood, etc.
Here are interesting similarities between Lucifer and Prometheus
Prometheus: Before his fall he was one of the closest titans to Zeus, joining him in titanomachy.
Lucifer: Before his fall, was one of the closest angels to God.
Prometheus: Disrupts the order and will of Zeus in complicity with man made of clay.
Lucifer: Disrupts the order and will of God in complicity with man made of clay.
Prometheus: Bearing fire, symbolizing the gift of knowledge.
Lucifer: Brings light, symbolizing the gift of knowledge.
Prometheus: Brings knowledge to mankind, teaching them the gift of fire.
Lucifer: Brings knowledge to mankind, encouraging them to eat from the tree of knowledge.
Prometheus: cursed and condemned by Zeus because of man.
Lucifer: cursed and condemned by God because of man.
Prometheus: every morning the eagle of Zeus flies in to peck his liver, which is restored overnight. And so it goes day after day.
Lucifer: also called the morning star, which every morning heralds the beginning of a new day to its end. And so it is day by day.
Prometheus: because of Pandora's fire of knowledge and curiosity mankind is condemned to the suffering and torment of life.
Lucifer: Because of the tree of knowledge and Eve's curiosity, mankind is condemned to the suffering and torment of life.
I think there were two creation events. God makes a people, they go to a level, God wipes them out, and starts the world again. That's at least my theory.
I think there were a myriad of creation and flood myths and a couple of each made it into the Torah.
No Moses didn't Write the Torah, God did and Moses transcribed it.
Strange, since he apparently wrote much of it after his own death.
@@cynthiaellis1578 because he was educated by Pharoah, he knew how to Read & Write. After receiving the Commandments written by God. God then bestowed the Torah on Moses.
Lol
@@kenrickbenjamin1608 but he just knew how to write Egyptian, Hebrew language didn’t even exist, lol
Irrefutable evidence of the historicity of the Exodus.
1- Rock with the description of the 7 years of plague in Egypt (Inmnoteph / Joseph). Found on Sehel Island in Egypt.
2- Inscription of Moses (Sinai 361)
3- The greatest evidence of the Exodus is at Mount Sinai in Arabia. Galatians 4
4- Tomb of Moses and Aaron
5- Strabo, Tacitus, Josephus, Hecateus of Abdera (Greek-Atheist), Numenium etc., quote Moses.
6- There are reports of natural disasters in Egypt.
7- Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy (half)
8- The Egyptians erased their history
9- Stele of Merneptah proves that the Hebrews were in Egypt.
The Exodus is Historical, and Moses as Real!