The American Magic Capsize - A Step by Step Explanation
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- čas přidán 23. 01. 2021
- Ken Read and Nathan Outterridge run through the American Magic Capsize second by second to understand exactly how it happened.
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The 36th America's Cup presented by Prada will be contested by the winner of the 2017 America's Cup, the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron represented by their team, Emirates Team New Zealand, and the winner of the Prada Cup, the challenger selection series which takes place in January-February in 2021.
#AmericasCup #AC36 #Auckland2021 - Sport
We really need more of this - I'm a complete newcomer to sailing, and this level of insight and explanation (especially of basic terms like 'easing the mainsheet' and 'leeward and windward backstay') is so helpful. Thank you!
This analysys is excelent. More of this please. I am loving the comms audio from the boat.
same
Awesome analysis, yet again the coverage of this America’s cup astounds me. I know it helps having such awesome boats and quick races, but the quality of the output is just brilliant. As a keen sailor I had always found watching it on the screen a poor experience. This changes everything and has made sailing better tv viewing than any stadium sport, and that is a really hard ask for such a technical sport. Keep it up.
@@gianfalco8527 interesting observation! I wondered what had made the hole
as i didn't think the impact with the water would make that type of puncture wound, more of a crushing blow than a gouge.
yes agree, the media coverage and content this time around is amazing
@@TheUltimateWriterNZ That's just the failure mode of the material at work. I assume it's carbon fibre, which in this sort of application will almost always snap in clean lines rather than crumple like metal or even fiberglass would.
@@gianfalco8527 Interestingly, that's the same time we lose the camera feed. Definitely looks like it could have been an electrical failure.
@@1AmTheStig i think they came out and confirmed that it was the internal hydraulics that caused it
Ken Read and Nathan Outterridge amazing job, bravo
thank you for the analysis- hind sight is always 20/20, but at the speeds here, decisions happen at warp speed. best of luck to American Magic.
At warp speed for sure... any quick reaction like what was needed here must be practised to be second nature. There is just no time for thinking about it.
Saw the Kiwis in a practice run in sort of similar difficulty reacting ligtning quick- eased the main sail, lift the windward foil and pointing the bow in the wind.
There is just no second chance when flying over the water like that.
@@cobusbrits2 you have to trust the people you've put by your side! Barker over-ruled what was already a tough call. Hindsight and pressure are crazy things!
Fantastic and dramatic analysis of big speed, big time and big money sailing...AND big gambling tossed in as well...WOW!
Thank you for making the America's Cup so accessible, wonderful analysis.
You two are bloody great. Thanks for taking commentary instead of being on board!
Best and clearest analysis I’ve seen so far. Thanks for your work on this - great job 👍🏻
Excellent analysis guys. Best commentary on the cup out there. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the analysis, very informative!
Well done. I'm a new fan so I'm at the bottom when it comes to knowledge and such. Thanks for explaining things so well.
Thanks for the play by play! Really loved seeing the intricacies of the sport....Hope American magic has better luck after fixing their boat!
This is an excellent walk through of what happened. The explanation of the shipboard communication is spot on. The nautical terminology, how it relates to what is occurring reinforces its necessity. Many people often question me about the exacting terminology used by sailors. I always tell them that it comes down to your life depending on it. It is one thing to say that the port jib sheet jammed in the block while on the other to say the left sail rope is stuck. Also, consider that the person that is facing you that is being told that is looking aft! The first thing I learned about sailing from my skipper, Goldeneye Gordy - may he rest in peace, is spill the main. SPILL THE MAIN! Of course, you can't do that if you only have six inches of travel and a batten hanging up on a backstay. Events overtake you, especially in races where you are pushing the limits. My question is, how did the hang on the backstay happen? This is NOT the way a mainsail works. There was a failure in insuring that that did not happen. Someone missed that. Thanks for the breakout on this. My curiosity still remains unsated, though. I also want to know about the dynamics and the design parameters that lead to a huge gaping hole in the hull. What actually caused a square hole in a "round boat"? Sorry, couldn't help myself there. There is more to this story. I hope you can enlighten us.
If they continued their turn to the left to relieve some wind pressure, they would have stayed upright. Lost some speed, but been in the race.
If they let the jib completely loose, they could have turned into the wind.
Strange how the rear mast stay screwed up any dream of allowing the main to just luff. Seems like a bad design choice. AC boats from yore I saw them swing the boom FAR out to one side and the spinnaker was far out to the other side when running straight down wind. Why are modern booms so immobilized?
Excellent analysis - more please!
I’m new to sailing. Watching not on the water. Brilliant insights and explanation. Can we have a few programs for beginners. I.e. 10 mins on what all the terminology means. Thanks for the upload.
Happy when you use your marker to teach me the details. Most enjoyable!
Excelent analysis! Thanks.
I've made this mistake a few times, as a kid on a Bluejay in junior sailing and on board an Express 37 in SF bay. Too bad the boat broke. On the Express the mentality was not if you were going to broach, but when, and how fast you could clean up the mess and keep racing. It's obvious that these boats are really hard to sail, I just hope they don't scrap the design and move on before perfecting how to handle them! 44kts on a sailboat! amazing!
They are definitely fast, but very unsafe for many reasons.
Excellent analysis!
Excellent, thank you.
Fantastic video and commentary! Wonderful (and sad) to see and hear the moment to moment decisions, action and consequences. Great work Ken, Nathan and the video crew. American Magic...not so much.
Wonderful. This have initiated a major discussion with my 5 junior family sailors. Many lessons to be learned from this for all sailors and non - sailors. Thank you
I agree with your criticism and I am a sailor!
Main lesson: Choose to sail in a safer boat.
Great explanation guys
This analysis was as thrilling to watch as the racing itself. 👍 Thank you for explaining what really lead up to the wreck. Seems like the old scenarios in aviation cockpits when a first officer couldn’t correct the Captain before disaster happened.
Seems..but real issue is why mainsail was not eased enough?
Top tier forensics...well done!
At 7:00 Kenny says three times.. the leeward backstay is supposed to be loose, "and it's not." Nathan nods in agreement, then changes the subject. Everybody knows it's supposed to be loose. We want to know why it wasn't eased, who or what controls it.
Yes..that is the real question for sure...and therefore could they have successfully completed the gybe if main sail not hung up ?..probably..as it was first thing Kenny noticed on the day. Ouch
Can anyone explain it to a total novice like me? My understanding is that these boats have 'running backstays' that are cables coming off either side of the mast and attached to the deck on the back port and starboard corners. I understand many 'normal' sailing boats have a backstay that would come from the top of the mast to the back of the boat, allowing the mainsail to move freely without risk of catching on the stay. The reason for the running backstays on the AC75s is to allow for a gantry at the top of the sail (the flat top of the AC75 sails) that precludes the use of a stay from the top of the mast. Are these running backstays adjustable and if so, how do the crew adjust them when sailing?
This is the major failing of the skipper, knowing what the problem is and failing to respond to it. If you can’t depower of the main sail you turn into the wind to do it, while you let the jib loose to avoid throwing the nose into the water. There is a major air of cockiness in all of the skippers who think that while at the top of their game they can beat mother nature. All she did was give them a puff and they fell like a house of cards!
@@nixl3518 Bingo ...
@@joefish6546 Not sure about the AC boats as I haven't been on one, but running backstays generally connect to 2 blocks which are able to be eased by someone near the back of the boat independently. Because of where the load is coming from, the windward backstay is doing all the work as you bear away so letting the leeward one off completely doesn't reduce the support for the mast.
Really well explained
Great analysis.
Great explanation guys. Very interesting to see how complex the decision making process is and how making these split-second calls is crucial to the performance of the boat. Exceptional team work!
Lack of teamwork?
Great breakdown
I've always admired Nathan's sailing; he does it all and he's supremely talented. But his development as color commentator has come so far. This vid is evidence of that. Hope to see him racing GP in 2021.
Seems like the AC boat acted just like a Windsurfer. Without the jib providing pressure forward, to pull the bow down, coupled with the main being held from releasing pressure, the boat just did what all boats do -- they weathercock to weather. Want to bear off? Keep the jib working and let out the main -- get those aero forces forward of the keel/centerboard and in this case, the foils. And it might be that there was a lot of hull speed at that point too, with the high angle of attack and the foils provided some extra lift ; that they were pushing the hull high due to an abnormal foil angle of attack.. And we have to remember that the forward part of the hull is quite rounded to aid in flow to the jib, and once the hull started to go bow high, there might have been some small aerodynamic lift to the bow section (somewhat akin to a cylindrical body giving lift to aircraft) making matters worse. But the weather-cocking is really obvious in this video. , Thanks -- had not seen this before.
Wow Ralph, amazing
Still no talk about *why* the leeward backstay didn't get released. That's the one thing I was expecting to learn here.
There have been comments to the effect that the backstay can be released to defined presets, and that it was already released to one of those. However, the AM team haven't commented directly on this, so at best we can only guess as to why it wasn't released further. Also, there are strong suggestions that it may not have helped even if the running backstay had been fully released, as the mainsail can only be eased to a limited degree, and it was already eased to it's limit.
@@maxhugen on these boats the mainsheet has a lot less relevance in bearing away than the other sail controls - especially when, at these speeds, the apparent wind never goes far aft. No mater how far out the boom could go the sail remained powered up due to the backstay. It's the equivalent of the kicker/vang remaining hard on when releasing it allows the top to twist off dumping huge amounts of power from the top of the sail.
@@jonathanlodge4014 A major part of AM's problem was that the boat wasn't going fast enough - whilst rounding the mark the boat did a bit of a splash down which slowed it. With insufficient speed, the AWA moved aft somewhat, which exacerbated the problem, hence the excessive heel.
@@maxhugen exactly - the unreleased backstay kept the top of the sail set for upwind/higher speed. As the wind increased and the boat slowed the apparent wind moved massively so the boat had little forward power and far too much heeling moment.
@@maxhugen Somehow I think this is the true reason ! It was eased to it's maximum limit already.
I did hear in an interview that they had limited the length of the runners to save weight ..... and it definitely looks like Prada's leeward runners are very often very slack. Prada even wanted to do without them the mast is so stiff.
It's just bad luck. Wind angle, squall and wrong place at the wrong time along with a runner that couldn't be freed anymore ut had never been needed to be freed that much .....
Maybe there is a minimum length of runner to have on the boat and USA had cut it off (As people do at thses levels) to gain in weight because their software told them that that was all that had ever been used ??? Its the kind of thing nobody sees and that they are well capable of doing ...
Anyway: Agree all the way; no one has ever mentioned the runner not working properly. Hmmmmm.
They still would have had a massive acceleration and maybe even a jump out of the water, but in the correct direction ?
Great piece thanks for stepping though it, but I cannot bring myself to like it, how gutting it was for the team. But how exciting and on the edge the AC75s are
Great summary. I really don't understand why AM didn't take the easier mark rounding. They were so far ahead of LRPP and there was clearly a high risk to the manoeuvre they performed. Sadly we will never know if they could have taken on the kiwis, and won
Great analysis guys. However why no mention of Mr Hutchinson? It it normal for him to have no opinion on which mark to take? Also, are we sure that Dean’s backward look was not to check on the threat from Prada?
Fantastic analysis. Thank You. Would you guys watching on, have taken the bear away gybe around the right gate mark? All due respect to Dean Barker, I know he may have been pushing the boat to see what it could do, at 40 knots, the tack bear away was a gamble. Pity the Main hooked on the Leeward backstay. I
Pity...or bad management
At last the explanation, brilliant. What I would like to see is the actual recovery, when they righted the boat.. Please
all cameras sights from the onboard devices are cut out, while the take off and the capsize.
Diamond shaped drive sails. I haven't thought of a better way to mount it than with slap wristband technology.
I think one thing the guys didn't mention is the speed of the boat on bear away... On these kind of boats it's much easier to control bear away at full speed, if you are going slower your apparent wind moves back and easing sails has less of an effect when it comes to depowering, if they made the right turn then they would have initiated bear away with boat speed over 40 knts, I'd be surprised if they were doing over 25 on exit of the tack, and then straight into bear away... Hindsight is a wonderful thing hey!!
I've been wondering if, at the point where the boat is well over and potentially going to capsize, there would be enough time to lower the windward foil to increase the righting moment. Tough for the crew to do in this situation but an automatic lower in the event of extreme heel might make a difference in marginal conditions.
What is missing is comment about what punched the hole in the bottom of the hull. It clearly had to be something big and heavy inside getting loose and breaking through. I'm guessing it could have been batteries for the onboard computers and controls. Nothing else I can think of could do that much damage so quickly. So, who designed the battery system and the installation. I had to be under designed I'm thinking. Any insights?
There was an analysis by a pilot (Juan Brown) who described this in terms of wings stalling. Conclusions all the same, of course. Fascinating.
I'd say if the wing stalled the boat wouldn't have gone airborne like she did
Juan's theory is kook. He believes the hull is an airfoil similar to the wing on air plane.
I think poor Dean is getting too much flack. In strong winds cruising boats often tack instead of gybe to change gybe as it's much safer and controlled. Dean executed the tack fine and bore off rapidly to prevent a broach as normally a yacht has less pressure on the rudder downwind than reaching. Unfortunately Patriot didn't have the ability to do a 'big ease' of the main (and probably the jib) as the traveller, mainsheeet and runner only have a little bit of travel as the apparent wind is normally forward of the beam. In the end it's all about flight control as the power in the rig is vastly more than the power of the foils and trim tabs. Tack or gybe poor Dean was in charge of a bucking bronco when the gust hit and he didn't have enough control. I suspect something heavy came loose inside the boat (foil actuator battery?) and punched it's way through the thin carbon skin when Patriot slammed down, which turned a regular capsize into a disaster. Anyway, good luck to Patriot 2.0 (until you meet Ben!)
the far better sailor in this case was ignored., to Deano's peril.. Goody had the right call. He recognized the risk, explained the risk, and Deano didn't have to confidence to make the change. Barker was wedded to the prior plan. he was Rigid, inflexible, and ultimately, timid. Everything Coutts, Blakey, Spittle, Slingsbey are not. I'm not sure what Hutchinson saw in Barker, but I don't understand what anybody sees in Hutchinson, either.
Why isn't anyone commenting on the steering, @5:35 you can see the helm steer to starboard (also this is when spray start to fly off the windward side of the rudder), this seems to push the stern down, increasing the AoA on the foil. I would think you should hold the helm down in a bear away, using centrifugal force to help keep the boat level?
At the end of the day its still a race, I'm guessing his idea was to get more on wind so the boat slows down had he turned fully down wind they'd have stopped foiling and lost. He didn't see the what we saw and assumed it was just a gust, didn't know his main was caught
I have the exact same lamp as you guys.
Please lads CAN you do a post on apparent wind and true wind speed how it works //// why did usa not flip the boat on to port after the capsize the hole would have been out of the water earlier on. needs looking at
Apparent wind and true wind are super simple. True wind is how fast and at what direction the wind is blowing if you are stationary.
Apparent wind is the speed and direction the wind is blowing across the boat while it's moving.
If you've got a breeze from your left side at 10 KTS and then you drive in a straight line forward at 10 KTS windspeed and direction as measured on you car are the sum of both those vectors (directions).
Hind sight is 2020. I doubt they knew exactly what happened. That hole was enormous. Stick your hand out the window in a moving car. What you are feeling is the apparent wind, not the true wind.
Wrong hashtag but great analysis
is one of the problems that Dean slowed down while going thru the wind that caused the apparent wind to go aft and load up as they turned down wind?
Yes I think that's why the tack-bear away is considered harder, because it slows down the boat and the you have a big acceleration.
The green light onboard AM is on within 3 boats lengths during the rounding of the mark. At 6:40" the light is off. Could it be that some electrical component has come loose down below which created the "guillotine effect", as explained by Terry Hutchinson, on the hull as it hits the water during the capsize?!
The hole was caused by " internal structure " breakout during the interview with Terry, doesn't sound like electrical object.
@@dnomyarnostaw At 9:58 Terry says "the structure basically guillotined the panel" (czcams.com/video/4-yvEmEqdBc/video.html). He doesn't seem to contradict what I wrote before - something inside the boat created the big hole on impact.
@@gianlucajandelli6387 You wrote "electrical component".
that is nothing like "internal structure "
@@dnomyarnostaw An internal structure could be anything - mechanical, electrical,...of course it must be something pretty heavy looking at the hole. I mentioned "electrical component" because of my hypothesis relative to the onboard light.
AM were quite clear that the hole was not punched out (by "something"), but inwards. Braced by both lateral and longitudinal structural components, that section of the hull was punched in. Unless you believe the AM engineers etc are all wrong, or lying?
The traveler max position has been shown and discussed by previous media and this video reinforces that fact however there is no reference to exactly how much sheet release there was available and if it was released would that have prevented a capsize with the dramatic wind speed shift. Also, during the press conference it was stated the team did not want lighter air to the right and opted heavy air left so was this a sheet setup mistake or just a bad luck wind speed gust?
When the helmsman says "big puff" it's hard to call it luck.
Exactly...I think even the media is behaving in a disingenuous manner.
Any idea why the backstay wasn't slackened? What controls it?
Most likely a electronic error or just fault by the trimmer
I have exactly the same question - and they didn't address that in the analysis. Do those boats require a crew member to take action to slacken the new leeward backstay and tighten the new windward one? Or is it automatic, and did the automatic system fail?
On a conventional boat a crew member would have to do it. Who knows on these things? These are not normal boats.
I think you can see the damaged panel drift away from the boat at 1:18.
Great explanation. Now can someone please explain the explanation?
Sure, the skipper didn't listen to good advice and crashed the boat.
They were freakin haul a$$! Do you think they pulled the right foil up too soon? It looked stable until they raised it. Looks like it was providing much needed leverage against that wind pressure. Maybe they needed to delay that a second or two longer?
You can’t have too much ken.
Do you think if the starboard keel was left down a little longer this would have saved them? Also, what is that whining sound?
Nice - bravo american magic
Helicopter wash - had to play a role it was just above the boat. It passes over at 7:30 on the time line but had been there awhile and much lower at 0:51 - just over the water.
Totally agree! This analysis is missing the elephant in the room so to speak.
Maybe it's not the failure of the sail hanging on the backstay but the design of the sail that caused it to hang up in the first place. Or the placement of the the stay wire to interfere with the sail? I know that the cut of the sail will determine the power it might deliver. Why is the sail, backstay so placed to interfere with each other? (sort of like an interference engine, everything is fine, until its not and the piston hits the valves, causing way more damage)
Running back stays are always in the way of the mains'l as far as I know. They were more common on gaff rigged boats. Generally not used on a modern sloop. They do provide for more support of the mast. My opinion is the boat was simply knocked over by an unexpected gust. They were running down wind and then turned into the wind. Given the speed of the boats, the change in apparent wind was very dramatic once they rounded the mark. The short coming is the hull is not strong enough to withstand the foils coming out of the water. Eventually they will have to give up on these types of boats. They are only suitable in very limited wind conditions. They are limited to a strong steady predictable breeze. If small craft warnings are up or there is only a light breeze, you can forget it. They won't work. You will notice the bay they are sailing in has no swell at all. I doubt they could be sailed in Hawaiian waters. Sailing across the Alenuihaha Chanel is very difficult in a conventional keel boat. With these contraptions, it would be completely impossible.
They said the back stay was suppose to be loose and it wasn't. Why is that? human error, just back luck, equipment failure?
@@freddyrassinger8198 The entire thing was human error. And they did point out what caused it, the main sail got caught on the backstay. Essentially the crew made the tack too quickly and with the unexpected gust the couldn't bleed off the excess wind.
Could've been avoided by extending the time of tacking(staying on pointe for a fraction of a second longer) but they would lose speed or giving sheet before the tack to slightly depower the boat in anticipation of the gust which would also slow them down or just doing a gybe instead. If the had noticed while it was happening they could've turned more into the wind to give the sail time to come loose and the stay time to go slack
@@DrAsamuel I would say it was more an act of God.
This is what happens when you don't want to just win by running your own race, but try to control the other teams race as well. Could have taken the "easy" path around to the right, but he wanted to stay in phase with Luna so went the hard way. He didn't want to just win, he wanted to make it look like they dominated the other team.
I agree, but I'd add that this was the last leg of the race coming up. Barker had lost every race in the round robin to date, and I think he was so focussed on finally winning one that he took the risky (but he thought quicker) track rather than playing it safe and (almost certainly ) still winning. If I was running the AM team, I'd pull Barker off the helm and let Goodison drive.
I used to tip my Sunfish in the Thames River, always got it back up myself. Just stand on the rudder.
You mean the center board, right??
@@davidverhoef3129 no i googled sunfish and the sunfish only has a rudder no centre board.
@@jugaloking69dope58 You see that's the difference between someone with a computer and someone with experience. Having sailed more Sunfish than I can count as a kid I know that it has a centerboard. You must learn to use the Google better :)
@@davidverhoef3129 I call it a daggerboard.
@@davidverhoef3129 gottem
So if the Bare away Jibe to the right was a smarter tactic during the puff and was 100 meters closer then why did Barker not listen to Goodison? Maybe Goodison should get a chance to lead this AMERICAN MAGIC team around the course. He seems to make good decisions under pressure.
Okay. I'm coming to the party late. Here is what I see. By tacking while going 40kts, they radically increase the apparent wind over the sails. Then, they ventilate the rudder foil and the entire rudder mast (maybe a ventilate/cavitate combo). Thus, the boat gives up control over the angle of attack of the lifting foil/wing, and it launches for the surface, as the boat rounds up into the wind, then the lifting foil/wing breaches the surface and all foils are now ventilated and ineffective. Conclusion: by jibing, they would have reduced apparent wind speed over the sails, and would be more likely to prevent ventilation/cavitation of the foils - which may have exceeded their pre-cavitation velocity for a moment (a split-second is all it takes).
A common refrain in these post mortems from commenters (likely personal acquaintances or supporters of the individuals involved) has been that this is just a racing accident and that unexpected high winds were the root cause. I would remind those reading that these sailing teams have been testing foil sailboat limits for years now and SHOULD have been keenly aware of the boat's limits with regard to high wind exposure at all points of sail and foil configurations . From the audio, it was clear that the tactician was aware of the limits and voiced his concern. The helmsman visibly acknowledged the tactician's advice yet clearly ignored/over rode that advice as they approached the gate - with the end result being loss of control, crash, and near sinking.
This isn't sled dog racing.
Cross support. Hugo boss didnt have exes as supports. Off topic but imocas spend most of the time heeled and apivia had 200 additional kilos of structural support. I've never been on a sailboat I'm observing the architecture. This still wild to me but you guys are wearing helmets and other safety gear. Planing hulls dont plane anymore I guess because there on foils in imocas. I dont know the dimensions but rods formed in an x I feel like hugo boss would still be running vg
Thanks Ken, Nathan. However, I still think there was a causal problem with flight control. Watching the event unfold frame by frame on the YT videos, boat pitch was not corrected as they rounded the mark, went from -1.5° (bow down) to +1°. Nevertheless the boat was still relatively stable, and continued that way into the beginning of the bearaway for another full second. But then the pitch started to increase further, whilst the rudder still had control, until it reached the point of no return. I posted imgs and timeline showing this at SailingAnarchy, the side view at:
forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/193692-team-nyyc/&do=findComment&comment=7379031
and the overhead view showing how/when pitch changed at:
forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/219703-prada-cup/&do=findComment&comment=7381380
I hope Dean Barker never ever gets to helm another America's Cup yacht ...What a flamin disaster.
Great detailed analysis on all points:
1) helmsman made a poor decision to take a course that was far more risky under the higher wind circumstance - a blunder made even more apparent with the boat's 480 meter lead going into the gate
2) while the traveler was maxed out, the mainsheet was not eased appropriately given the wind conditions and bear away tack maneuver that was decided upon
3) port or leeward backstay was not eased sufficiently or at all which inhibited the main sails ability to dump pressure/stress on the boat
4) helmsman cranked rudder hard to 90 degrees as it was lifting out of the water causing it to act as a strong brake upon reentry - likely intensifying the impact of the forward area of the boat as it slammed back down in the water
Four significant and largely inexcusable (in the arena of the highest levels of competition) human errors resulted in a serious accident that caused heavy damage to the boat and thankfully did not result in serious injury to anyone onboard.
I don't entirely agree.
1) The helmsman made a racing decision - the weather mark was tactically preferable as racing sailors would know.
2) The mainsheet cannot be eased out very far as noted in this video, because it is not really a "sheet", but a hydraulic ram.
3) Agree
4) What evidence do you have to say the "helmsman cranked rudder hard to 90 degrees"? Once the rudder loses control, weather helm forced the boat to round up whilst in mid air.
Any idea why the backstay wasn't slackened? And what controls it? Thanks.
@@stevelangridge1755 No idea why the backstay was not eased at all or eased enough to stay clear of the sail - video shows the sail hard up against the stay and trailing edge fluttering only from the point of contact down. As for the mechanism used - don't know, have not seen up close photos of the rigging.
@@maxhugen The helmsman didn't just make a foolish "racing decision" based on the substantial lead of the boat going into the gate and the increased wind conditions noted by everyone on the boat leading up to the gate. The helmsman actually over rode his tactician's advice in favor of a far riskier maneuver that wasn't needed or justified. It wasn't just a "racing decision" but given the totality of circumstances - it was a major blunder that is likely the biggest factor resulting in loss of control of the vessel and near sinking. As for the main sheet - it is clearly a rope line - not a hydraulic ram. How the rope is pulled is irrelevant. For safety reasons, it should have the ability to travel far enough to lift the boom's sealing edge completely off the deck to heavily depressurize the mainsail in an emergency. The two experts commentating stated that it wasn't "eased enough" - no further argument is needed on that point - pure and simple. As for the rudder, just look at the video the precise moment the rudder comes out of the water. It's clear the direction is consistent with moderate steerage to port but quickly goes to full 90 degrees to the boat's direction of travel - a place it should never be when the vessel is traveling 40knts over ground.
@@cjg6364 👎 Nah, disagree with most of what you claim so "authoritatively". Come express your views on the SailingAnarchy AC forums, you may gain some knowledge. Adieu.
I really don’t believe a jibe in this monster would have been safer unless they were miles away from that squall line. Running backs suck, have always been a pita, and source of much angst. I’m stunned at what people are implying about them shortening the slack to save weight. Great idea until a situation like this. But I’m going to assume they could have eased everything a lot more, but choked, and I feel bad, and just glad it wasn’t me.
In one slow motion shot of the wheelie I could have sworn I saw the whole hull twist a bit but maybe just my imagination. Wonder if there was a lot more structural damage than we’ve been told about.
Punching a big hole in the hull when you didn't collide with another boat or the bottom is a strong sign that these boats while fast are extremely impractical.
Still don't get why the boat suddenly takes off like that. Up to that point it is under control. Could it be that the foil was generating too much lift? I guess as the boat heels over, the foil becomes horizontal and the lift increases, at the same time not providing lateral resistance any more. So the bow swings downwind and is forced upwards, resulting in take off. The rest is inevitable.
Sailing these boats is like walking on a slack line or tight wire.
How is the reconstruction of American Magic going?
They expect to be able to race on Friday. With any luck they may get some testing in earlier.
@@108hindu Thanks @Marko, I was hoping this repost had info on that subject. Go Magic!
Terry Hutchison thought it might be back in the water as soon as Wednesday as they have all the bits and pieces at hand now and all the systems working again but he's saying they should be good to go for Friday.
Question for Terry, will the NYYC throw you under the bus for this stunning defeat?
I alarmed to see that there is essentially no gap between the boom and the deck so the crew on the side that goes under have to swim under the sail to escape. This seems exceedingly dangerous.
Great explanation, but incomplete. Unfortunately, the sound track is missing Hutchinson. Somebody removed the video czcams.com/video/wS5KSBzBZ0w/video.html where you could hear Barker asking, presumably to Hutchinson, if he really wants the left mark even with the tack-bear away. The answer, if any, is not audible. This has also been noted on sailing anarchy forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/193692-team-nyyc/&page=120 I am not sure what the chain of command is on this boat but I suspect the skipper made the call and the helmsman went along.
I don't know a lot about sailing but I do have a couple of questions.
- When Goodison said to go towards the right mark, it seemed a little too late to make that change. They were only a few seconds away from the mark. How much preparation does the crew usually need to perform a maneuver like that?
- Why is a tack-bear away more difficult than the bear away- gybe in this situation?
- And the obvious question, why was the leeward back stay still taught?
My understanding is that a tack slows down the boat going into the bear away, which causes the wind to move further aft than normal on these boats and the loads to go up. I'll let people more in the know answer the other questions.
I am trying to see how the starboard marker was a 100m closer to AM - difficult to see that.
@@cobusbrits2 the 100m was relative to the entire course
I’ watch on TV the America Magic is a very WIDE boat unlike Luna Rossa simple and streamline and may be WHY it TIPS OVER EASILY
30 percent less mast delivered to the drive sails using already existing mounting, diamond shape drive sails they have to be neatly retractable and deployable from the unit already. Getting it to roll properly is the challenge in theory. Exo frame drive sails cant be stored and swapped out. Except for a super rc boat with exo frame sails.
I don't think she would have gone over if someone released the main sheet !
The traveller was all the way to port and the mainsheet was almost entirely out as you can see clearly at 5:30. They only had a few centimetres more extension on the mainsheet so it wasn't going to make any difference. The top aft edge of the mainsail was hung up on the leeward backstay which kept it from depowering but Terry said in a briefing that they only have a few inches of relief on those running backstays so even that might have been released and not enough. The long and short of it is that the sails they had up were too much for the instantaneous conditions they faced as they rounded the mark. They made the wrong call to do a tack bear away but hindsight is 20:20 and they had Luna Rossa hard on their heels.
Barker called it and she went over .... Goody's choice was the safe call. Helmsman made the error.
@@steveburton5825 Yours is a great analysis IMO.
Problem is you can't. The mainsheet is almost non existent.
It's also possible that they would have lost some of their lead to Luna Rosa taking the right marker and then been in less pressure.
Errori grossolani nei sottotitoli. Per cominciare si parla di "tack", virata, non di "attack"... etc etc
Mistakes were made here but that was a vicious localized puff of wind right on the mark rounding. Almost a worst case scenario for these boats. The Italians almost lost it too and they didn't get the full force of that puff like the Americans did.
Helicopter(s) distance(s)?
My point exactly! I like you believe that it was the rotor wash from the helicopter hovering near the marker.
The helmsman turned the boat too quickly and started turning before he had finished the count down.
No he didnt. The board was down, he was counting down came away from the wind and gybes exactly when he said 'turning'....
40+ knots on a sail boat...
And, so that amazingly clean hole in the hull was created by... ? The slap on the water or some 'thing' in the boat smashing it's way out when she got slapped?
Apparently the batteries were located above and were dislodged by the impact on the water...hence the square shaped hole in the hull.
Yeah ..if you slow video to point of slap down you can see the rupture and debris..from the under bow camera shot..in Mr Hutchinson 's interview on capsize
@@charlescasadei3045 Yes, that seems to be the consensus in the comments online but I've yet to hear anything said about it from the sailors or commentators. Of course I don't hear everything but as far as I'm aware nothing has been said about the batteries lying at the bottom of Rangitoto channel
The hull probably has an internal grid of bulkheads. When the hull got bashed in by breaching, the hull failed at the joints to the bulkheads. That would also be why the cracks forward of the hole are relatively straight.
@@martylawson1638 Thanks Marty, makes sense
All because they didn't have the leeward back stay loosened! Unbelievable,!😯
Counting 1 to 3 while in the death zone probably didn't help much either
Is Dean Barker the greatest choke artist in the modern history of the Americas Cup?
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I believe rotor wash from the helicopter/drone hovering near the marker caused this, it is easy to see! The question who is responsible for allowing a helicopter that low and near to the course? At an airport they would never allow a helicopter to hover near parked aircraft because they make them "fly" then flip over.
That helicopter is nowhere near the boat and there's no way the wash from that distance would have any effect on the boat.
Sailor error, plain and simple.
@@christjan08 Take a look at it again paying attention to the helicopter, it may even be a type of drone; it climbs rapidly and shortly after the boat passes beneath where it was, i believe it was rotor wash.
@@carlmaclean4750 I can see how you would think that, but if that was the case these boats would be falling over in a breeze.
There is no way rotor wash would cause a boat to lift up out of the water and then fall over.
Pilot error, there seems to be a power struggle over the right thing to do and who is in charge.
Everyone has acknowledged these boats are very hard to control. I believe the design will eventually be abandoned. My view is perhaps two fixed foils would be more predictable, but you still have the problem of how to right it after a knock over.
@@JoeLinux2000 When you observe the race between luna rosa and american magic it was like a ford pinto against a maserati.
So are you saying Goodison got scared fear took over & he completely dropped Barker in it, not easing the main & perhaps running backstay if thats his job? Goodluck to the other teams if they think taking the soft option will get them NZs Cup, Dean knows this so if you can't nail your job you better fire him now because I doubt he is going to back off.
*Effing DEAN!!!! Overrode everyone below him it's on his shoulders!*
i tell what annoys me always this america's cup people commentators don't know what they are talking about
it;s about time someone realised that it,s the battery which you can see trying to come out of the hull just before the crash landing at which point it,s punched a hole through the hull and could also be why the back stay did not release.
they said the batteries were still on board after the crash.
Time wise..the main was already caught up before the roundup stall..and then displaced battery or item on slapdown
As a saling instructor i know! yet was asked " How can these boats go so fast without an engine ' Clearly so many people have not the slightest clue how sailing works. Please present a simple presentation for the keen new comers, as using sailing terminology is lost to them.
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