How the Mario RPGs Perfected Turn Based Combat
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2023
- In today's episode I talk about the Mario RPGs and their turn based combat system. i've personally always been a fan of Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario and the Mario and Luigi series for a long time now and think they have some of the best turn based combat the genre has to offer. Don't forget to like comment and subscribe if you enjoyed the video!
Video Credits (In Order of Appearence)
• DRAGON QUEST XI S: Ech... - Nintnedo of America
• SWT Championship Group... - VGBootCamp
czcams.com/users/liveQmjSoL5y... - Shirrako
• SNES Final Fantasy VI ... - yoshiyukiblade
• Shin Megami Tensei V -... - Nintendo of America
• Undertale - No Hit Sans - Merg
• Mario & Luigi Bowser's... pXw - DE23 :]
• Paper Mario: The Thous... - SourceSpy91
• Mario & Luigi: Bowser'... - Awiibo
• Longplay of Super Mari... - Longplay Archive
• Super Mario RPG: Legen... - Games Done Quick
• Paper Mario 64 - Full ... - NintendoMovies
• Longplay of Mario & Lu... - Longplay Archive
• Mario & Luigi: Partner... - Awiibo
• Mario & Luigi Dream Te... - Ninbanyan
• Mario & Luigi: Paper J... - Awiibo
• Mario & Luigi Dream Te... - Ninbanyan
• Mario & Luigi Dream Te... - Ninbanyan
• Mario & Luigi Dream Te... - Ninbanyan
• Mario and Luigi: Paper... - KokiriGaming
Music Used:
People (Symphonic) - Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age OST
Fight Against An Armed Boss - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars OST
Fight Against Monsters - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars OST
Fight Against Bowser - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars OST
Battle Fanfare - Paper Mario OST
Battle Theme - Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door OST
They’re Pretty Tough, Should We Be Careful - Mario and Luigi: Bowser’s Inside Story OST
Big Bang! - Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam OST
File Select - Mario and Luigi: Bowser’s Inside Story OST - Hry
I love how the endings to these videos are always so unexpected
the video ending randomly after that one sentence was legitimately a jumpscare
The no ending ending is kinda heat
Turning Luigi into a surfboard is the culmination of everything this video lead up to. It’s the one takeaway anybody needs to get from this
Idk why, but i just love the chase sequence-type attacks of Dream Team and Paper Jam
They’re fun if you gotta dodge them like once or twice but a bunch throughout the game weighs on the pacing
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Oddly enough, the longer ones are actually my favorites.
I'm probably biased since Dream team is a childhood favorite and the first turn-based combat game I ever played (other than Pokémon, obviously), and I've never played Paper jam, but I completely agree. Those things are hard, but unbelievably satisfying to pull off.
3:23 - Defense is slightly different across each game. Mario RPG had "Good" timing = 1/2 damage & "Perfect" timing = 0 damage.
While Paper Mario 64 just takes off 1 point of damage when you block (unless you're also using specific badges to drop it even more).
Then Paper Mario: TTYD added in the "Super Guard" on top of that, which uses _another_ button and has much stricter timing
compared to a normal block. But if you pull it off it'll negate the attack and damage the enemy instead.
Meanwhile, SS, CS & TOK are different from the previous PM games, but the same with each other.
Kinda acting like Mario RPG, by having somewhat higher HP totals and has it cut damage in 1/2 when blocked.
Of course M&L does its own thing, by allowing you to completely dodge attacks or even counter them depending on the attack.
Ah yes I became aware of the differences in Paper Mario guarding while editing. TTYD probably had the best system out of those games with M & L still taking the cake
@@SlightlyInDepthGamingYeah m & l is the best and ttyd is the second best though super guard are maybe a bit too broken.
Surprisingly, in Sticker Star you can avoid some attacks by either equipping the Tanuki Tail to deflect projectiles or the Frog Suit to hop over ground-based attacks.
You forget Paper Mario also added Status Ailment NEGATION when you block.
As someone who grew up with Bowser’s inside story, Dream team is heavily underrated. They were really creative with all the memorable characters, and environments. I also liked how they explored the inner workings of Luigi’s mind. I personally don’t mind the longer attacks either since they were relegated to being used once or twice in the boss fights. The game still has its flaws, but it definitely wasn’t the whiff Paper Jam was.
I agree that Dream Team has creative locations, interesting boss fights and a good use of the touchscreen. However it’s pacing really betrays it. The intro is stuffed with tutorials and the battles are filled with minute long attacks from both sides
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Yeah the tutorials are definitely the worst part, but the fights are paced just fine IMO.
i love mario luibi dream teAam
Inside Story is one of the only RPG's where I don't run from encounters just because they are so much fun.
Also, another banger video (as per usual). Great stuff!!!
Yo same I fight everything in M&L games. Appreciate you watching my videos!
Paper Mario has the perfect attack system and the most fun RPG elements like the badge system, while Mario and Luigi has the perfect defense system with all the unique ways you counter, jump over, and block enemy attacks. To have both of them combined, and be proper damn RPG, and not a paper gimmick game or full of tedious cutscenes, would be perfect.
Legit true but unfortunately I don’t know if we’ll ever get that RPG
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Just a fantasy but a actual RPG Paper Mario again would still be a miracle.
The paper gimmick can live, and was there tedious cutscenes?
They gotta stop annoucing Mario RPGs so I can stop making videos about them lol also sorry if I sound sick in this video I was sick while recording
I cannot stress enough that the Mario and Luigi games are a prime example of how you can make turn-based combat fun and engaging.
Makes me wish other turn based RPGs can pick up on this (especially Pokémon. Yeah, I said it)
The abrupt ending of the video lmao
If you ask me whats the most interesting variation of a mechanic is the concept of decaying crits, where the damage increase is lowered based on the enemies hp.
Truly the greatest outro of any video I've ever watched
I find it weird there was no mention of Mario + Rabbids, it may be a different type of RPG from a subgenre I personally dislike a lot, but I have heard it has some unique difference when compared to most TRPGs.
I haven’t played that series so I could quite comment on it
As someone who also dislikes tactical RPGs, but loves Kingdom Battle (I haven't played Sparks of Hope), the main reason why is the absurd freedom of movement it gives you compared to the rest of the genre. In Fire Emblem games, you have to deal with every unit having a single-digit movement speed and that's it. You don't feel allowed a lot of tactical freedom, as your healer can barely keep up with your tank. In Kingdom Battle, while some characters are slower than others, each of them should be able to get to the other side of the arena in 2 turns tops. That's due to things like team jumps, or pipes that extend your movement when you get out. There's other reasons why Mario + Rabbids is so good, but this is the main one.
OK how can you diss the goat Dream Team like this
It’s good don’t get me wrong but it’s sluggish pacing really does it in
Squaresoft put timed hits in FF8 with Squall’s normal attack and I thought this applies to all characters and started pressing buttons when their attacks connect even when I know they didn’t do anything.
That’s why you gotta play some good ol Mario and Luigi
I do that even in pokemon games
Junction for Stats and drawing/summoning at Triple speed in remaster was cool let alone triple triad. Turn based combat isn't boring at all. Ff4 jump was a really cool idea.
Timed hits are old as dirt though, let alone mario rpg level upside just guided you to minmax in an easy game that the remake just cheesed you.
7:42
Woah, I personally wouldn't diss on Dream Team *that* much.
Dream Team's battle system (in my opinion at least) can be fun to play, the Bros. Attacks still feel so good to pull off, some bosses are still fun yet challenging to fight (especially on Hard Mode), the dream world battles provide a breath of fresh air from the normal system and the Luiginary Attacks are fun to pull off while making you feel powerful against the enemy (my personal favourites being the Luiginary Ball, Luiginary Stack, and Luiginary Wall). The tutorials may ruin the pacing, but it's all up hill once they're over.
I would give support to Paper Jam too but I haven't played it in a long time.
Still a good video btw!
I like dream team it was one of the first 3DS games I owned. Unfortunately on repeat play throughs getting past the avalanche of tutorials and the constant attacks that take 30 seconds of more really don’t do the game any favors. It’s still solid but I’d put it as the 4th best game in the series
WHAT A WAY TO END THE VIDEO HAHAHA
Yeah bowser’s inside story is the best rpg by a mile. Also fire emblem perfected the turn based rpg formula in its own way with it being more of a strategy game than true turn based combat like chrono trigger or final fantasy.
We love Bowsers inside story
That one viral tweet was right, manchilds truly are like:
-RPG
-RPG... but MARIO
Dude I saw that tweet and knew I was gonna get cooked LMAO
Dragon Quest is peak btw, grow up 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Indeed that person was, Mario RPG fans haven´t touched a non Mario RPG and just half watched a gameplay
A lot of the replies and quote retweets also proved the post's point lol. So many RPGs use a button time mechanic but people love to say *only* Mario RPGs use them. Like, Lost Odyssey, Shadow Hearts, Legend of Dragoon, Cris Tales, Valkyrie Profile, Resonance of Fate and a ton of other RPGs I can't say on the top of my head uses the mechanic as well as the Mario RPGs. But nobody in the replies played ANY of the RPGs I listed or are dismissive because it ISN'T Mario.
There was another post I saw that said if you took a game and completely coat it to Mario or Zelda, people will automatically claim it's *better* than everything else in the same subgenre... ( _cough_ Hyrule Warriors and Mario + Rabbids)
I reallt liked Partners In Time personally. You'd jump with A and B, and then use your hammer with X and Y.
Depending on the enemy attack, sometimes jumping wasn't the correct move, and you'd hammer instead. This is just like Bowser from Inside Story.
Well that ending was abrupt. XD
Turn him into a surfboard 🏄
I find the gameplay in the first two Paper Mario games to be very mundane, and they fall into the grindy RPG combat loop by the first few chapter. There are hardly any original mechanics to stand out from any other RPG out there. People say Thousand Year Door significantly improved on the formula, when it did the bare minimum. They added a weird stage gimmick and made guarding useful, but partners, items, and badges were almost the exact same. Mario and Luigi game do a better job at keeping this fresh each installment.
I think the gameplay in Super Paper Mario is much more unique and stays interesting for most of the game. It feels like it does more with the Mario brand by mixing more platforming with RPG-style fights. I would rather have another Paper Mario game in this style.
I also surprisingly liked the Mario + Rabbids games. The combat also felt unique and was challenging for a Mario game.
I assume you're trying to call Dragon Quest boring at the start of this video? If that's the case, I heavily disagree (though I'm clearly biased, lol). I also disagree that normal turn-based combat is boring. I never understood that opinion, though I know it's a rather common one. That said, I'm glad people who dislike traditional turn-based combat can at least enjoy it in some form through Mario RPGs.
I feel like anyone who calls turnbased combat boring hasn't played one that isn't pokemon and thinks all turnbased combat is as boring as pokemon is
His comparison point might be Pokémon, which is the most basic turn based combat I can think of (competitive aside, once you have a very basic understanding of types, gym battles are super easy)
Earth bound allowed you to heal a partner before they died from a deadly attack by slowly decreasing HP instead of instantly subtracting it.
Blue Dragon allowed you to see exatly when an attack would land in a list. I remember it had this Fire/Ice dog boss that changed elements, and you could heal him if you planned your attack’s element wrong, I Loved that boss.
Even the Facebook-based ninja saga (and Ubisoft’s child of light) had this bar representing the characters where the speed stat actually matters.
I’ve played DQ V to completion and while I loved the conversations you could have with your party members with the talk command and I thought the overall story was pretty good the combat was definitely the weakest aspect. It was partially because the encounter rate in the dungeons was super high but also most fights was just me in a cycle of buff - attack - heal especially towards the end game. Not my cup of tea but hey no hate if you like it!
What i dont like in Turn based RPG are random battles in games like Xenogears, the loads screens that make each battle be longer than It should be and... I think that's all. Chrono Trigger's battle system is the best combat in my opinion. I like Xenoblade battle system too but It doesnt have that much estrategy, i wish it was more like Chrono Trigger so it would be perfect to me (i havent played Xenoblade 2 or 3 So I'm just talking about Xenoblade 1)
Maybe it is just me but I love standard turn based combat, games like bravely default series, dragon quest, and even octopath traveler all are fantastic turn based games without annoying gimmics
ngl i think dream team got the perfect turn based system
this guy really has 20 second attention span
Nice vid yo, got recommended because of the TTYD remake
Thanks man!
Poor PIT
It looked like you were gonna keep going and suddenly the video's over.
I never really liked Pokémon and always said that the Mario RPGs were much better.
I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking that
Which is precisely why I hate other RPGs; they're all luck-based. The M&L series is entirely skill-based.
I mean I wouldn’t say other RPGs are luck based they certainly require skill but not to the M&L level
You definitely have not played an rpg that isn't pokemon if you think it's luckbased
@@lukes.854 I don't like pokemon. I've been playing Persona 5. I would argue it's very luck based.
Bit random but I am cool to watch this.
Cool I think?
The modern paper Mario's battle system, while not that good, does retain the glory that the first two has, and also have an advantage, that being preparation.
#Remasterpit #remakepit #reviveMandL
That’s the spirit
can you please elaborate on why giving baby mario and baby luigi x and y was a bad idea?
like did you get confused because now you need to press 4 buttons because 5 year old me certainly didnt
like i genuinely dont see how its a bad idea, it just seems like a natural way to move forward
Alright then, let's spread the #
#ReviveM_and_L
Word I love that series let’s get it going
Would be nice to have a Mario & Luigi game collection in Switch 😊
We can only pray
This isn't Trails.
Yes
Wait? Does the rpg and the first 2 paper also has action commands? I have to pla. Thoose soon!
Yup all the Mario RPGs have action commands!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming 🤩
@@karelissomoved1505 The original Paper Mario introduces action commands at the end of the prologue. All the others have them when you begin.
I love those games. Is there anything similar on the market?
There's Bug Fables, which is a spiritual successor to the original Paper Mario games
I really hope Nintendo one day remakes Partners in Time. They could do so much improvements to it. And I hope the Thousand Year Door remake will be legendary.
does anyone know any interactive turn based games like this that are coop?
Does block tales count, its some roblox game you can play with friends
I wish Pokemon would add Action Commands
You forgot to put an end to the video!
Oh silly me you’re right
30 seconds and just shows how you don´t even played Final Fantasy 6 or Shin Megami Tensei just putting them in the same sack as Dragon Quest
And how unaware you had to be in order to not know how to defend for an attack where the ending of rolling a trident is.
Meryo? Me always here!
Mario is a lovable guy
People that dont like it like taking extra damage
Something like that
Nah, shen megoomy tensay perfected it
Spelling is a little off but
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming pretty sure I spelled it right
I like Mario and Luigi the best
Princess peach be like
I don't agree that Bowser's Inside Story is the peak of the combat formula, imo TTYD does it better.
I think BIS has the same problem you mention the next games have, some attacks just take so much time, and the best way to fight bosses is to maximize damage by spamming special attacks, which you can use freely as long as you have BP. My main issue though is that you don't really need strategies to play, you just need to get good with the action commands. I could say a lot of battles are about getting good at dodging.
In TTYD, you are often put into tight spots and have to think about different strategies (which is also stimulated by the enemy variety in resistance and weaknesses), and the best part is you have the resources to do that. The badges and multiple partners gives you an enormous variety on what kind of attacks you can use and status condition you can inflict. The items have way more variety of effects than the M&L series, the star powers are the most time consuming attacks and you can't just randomly use them, so you need to rely on your other resources.
While I do love the action commands, to me mastering a turn-based RPG's gameplay system is by improving the ways you can strategize, by forcing you to make new strategies and by allowing you to be creative in using your resources, since that's the basis of the whole genre.
TTYD definitely is a contender and as you mention does certain things better than BiS. Really depends on personal preference
No one gives Partners in Time any love 😒
I actually like Partners in Time quite a lot, the story and soundtrack in particular are fantastic. But the combat is bogged down by the specials being items and the unnecessary complication of the babies
I wanna respectfully say I disagree. I mean a love mario&luigi when I was a kid but this game is not something i see myself replay and definitely not a RPG.
RPG, even the action ones, are suppose to be a game about customization and strategy, Mario&Luigi is more like just a very simple turn base rhythm game than a RPG, its just unfair how the player can avoid or counter every single attack and turn every attack in a critical hit while the enemy is just there to suffer lol, this really just helps to feel like a rhythm game, actually is just like MuseDash lol
I don't know whats supposed to be a perfect turn base combat, but when I thing about it I just wish a game that keeps things calm without rush me while make me use the same amount of brain cells as I play chess or shogi. Also sorry if a said anything weird, I don't wanna be mean, english is not my native language.
Embarrassing video