When Does Cable Length Matter?

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  • čas přidán 27. 02. 2017
  • What's the truth about cable length? Do shorter cables always mean a better signal? Has digital technology made the question irrelevant, or is it still something you should think about?
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  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 1,9K

  • @Mr.Sequiro
    @Mr.Sequiro Před 7 lety +3781

    Shorter is better? Oh thank god. I thought I had something to worry about.

  • @AscendedOnOsu
    @AscendedOnOsu Před 5 lety +1191

    “You hear that little buddy?”

    • @weslaycock466
      @weslaycock466 Před 4 lety +9

      Oh shit that got me bhahahaha

    • @lemonheep
      @lemonheep Před 3 lety +8

      It still doesn't matter if it doesn't last long in bed

    • @boxyman3082
      @boxyman3082 Před 3 lety

      Yea

    • @weeb69
      @weeb69 Před 3 lety +4

      @@lemonheep you don't need cables to last long in bed....
      Not in my bed 😏

    • @Daniel_WR_Hart
      @Daniel_WR_Hart Před 3 lety

      @@weeb69 Damn, that must be some really rough bdsm

  • @scottbaileymsc
    @scottbaileymsc Před 3 lety +516

    The length of your “cable” doesn’t really matter if you have nothing to plug it into

    • @michelnaouss748
      @michelnaouss748 Před 3 lety +21

      Dont worry I'll buy you a port😆😜

    • @vladiiidracula235
      @vladiiidracula235 Před 3 lety +46

      Just roasted the whole comment section

    • @Daniel_WR_Hart
      @Daniel_WR_Hart Před 3 lety +7

      I know you're not talking about me because I still have most of my mining rig from 2017, giving me about 30 ports in total

    • @charleshines1553
      @charleshines1553 Před 2 lety

      true

    • @eufeul
      @eufeul Před 2 lety +2

      I feel personally attacked

  • @jerrickmarques8777
    @jerrickmarques8777 Před 4 lety +704

    Fine, I won't get the 50ft HDMI cable that's priced lower than the 6ft one.

  • @ivaneatstacos
    @ivaneatstacos Před 7 lety +655

    almost a year later and Linus is still shitting on WireWorld.

    • @DJSMedicate
      @DJSMedicate Před 7 lety +90

      well that stuff has to be the biggest rip-off in consumer tech so far

    • @xxxdroidmonkeyxxx
      @xxxdroidmonkeyxxx Před 7 lety +40

      Medicate I'm afraid Apple beat them to it.

    • @enaniux182
      @enaniux182 Před 7 lety +9

      The moment he mentioned wires I was totally expecting that shit. Being realistic, wouldn't you still be mad? I mean, he payed the 1k xD

    • @mcelhannan
      @mcelhannan Před 7 lety +31

      Zahid Shabir Samsung manufacture processors for apple

    • @XernealHD
      @XernealHD Před 7 lety +27

      Zahid.
      1st. The Samsung Exynos CPU is one of the best CPU's for a mobile phone
      2nd. don't compare a iPhone 6s with a fail, compare it with a S7 but to be honest, the OnePlus 3 is a better way to go
      3rd. Without Samsung, even more companies woudln't exist that godlike, Samsung has 2 manufacture "houses" for CPU's, GPU's (should help Nvidia) etc. etc.
      4th. please don't pour so much of your sheeple juice
      5th. get out with that motherfucking PCMR profilepic if you're a sheeple
      6th. thanks

  • @jakeconner2813
    @jakeconner2813 Před 7 lety +2027

    length doesn't matter. girth does.

  • @WLOfails
    @WLOfails Před 3 lety +61

    0:45 i've watched so much youtube that I assumed that phone call was going to be an advertisement

  • @memoboy4141
    @memoboy4141 Před 7 lety +1903

    "longer doesn't necessarily means better"
    hmmm....

  • @mcid47
    @mcid47 Před 7 lety +632

    0:49
    Just when you thought Linus was making a joke call
    but no, he wasn't

    • @bumblethebee761
      @bumblethebee761 Před 4 lety +110

      I thought he was going to use it for sponsorship 😂

    • @tofu.delivery.
      @tofu.delivery. Před 4 lety +47

      When his schedule is so tight that he can't afford to do a retake of that section but they couldn't cut out him taking the call because the ringtone wouldn't make any sense

    • @ziend89
      @ziend89 Před 4 lety +4

      @@bumblethebee761 too 😂

    • @PaperIsCool5
      @PaperIsCool5 Před 4 lety +8

      I thought he ment “wireless”
      Cause he is talking about wire

    • @User-je7gf
      @User-je7gf Před 3 lety +6

      @@bumblethebee761 lol same was just about to skip 30 seconds ahead.

  • @grimrenaissance
    @grimrenaissance Před 7 lety +1085

    Size always matters... that's what he said.

    • @trollenciofuu
      @trollenciofuu Před 7 lety +40

      This Motherfocka wait.... what?

    • @willowedits4817
      @willowedits4817 Před 7 lety +3

      Does anybody else read it with Pink Guys voice?

    • @rachelharrison7713
      @rachelharrison7713 Před 7 lety

      Paperclown Good for you. I know some day I will look this stuff up for actual reference and will hate the jokes. Love them AND hate them.

    • @NathamelCamel
      @NathamelCamel Před 7 lety

      toe

    • @TyFly312
      @TyFly312 Před 7 lety +3

      This Motherfocka he bro? ummmm, oh yeah it's 2017 nevermind

  • @bboygmoney
    @bboygmoney Před 5 lety +202

    I'm an electrical engineering junior and this video made me have to back up and take a look at some transmission line material. He is pretty accurate in all he said without making it too technical. Very nice! I wish I had more of an opportunity to learn these things from experience as opposed to through differential equations...

    • @suzesiviter6083
      @suzesiviter6083 Před 4 lety +13

      Ahh thats only the first year, to scare the wannibies off the course, year 2 you will be learning real stuff).

    • @blaydv2242
      @blaydv2242 Před 4 lety +1

      What things use optical cables?

    • @stonalisa3729
      @stonalisa3729 Před 3 lety

      How has it been going?

    • @singleT314
      @singleT314 Před 3 lety +1

      @@blaydv2242 Not an electrical engineering major. But, a lot of the internet uses optical cable runs. Deep sea internet cables are optical, however they do go so far they need repeaters.

    • @Jizzlewobbwtfcus
      @Jizzlewobbwtfcus Před 2 lety

      Foget Maffs... use Hammer... SMASH!... UG!

  • @mohawkade
    @mohawkade Před 7 lety +683

    This brings up a question, what about deep sea internet cables crossing oceans, connecting continents together to the world wide web?

    • @witekzabita2701
      @witekzabita2701 Před 7 lety +15

      mohawkade lol

    • @doujinflip
      @doujinflip Před 7 lety +259

      mohawkade Undersea cables are invariably optical, but can run spans so long that undersea repeaters are still needed. High voltage DC wires run alongside the optical cable to power said repeaters and splitters.

    • @thebigboi5357
      @thebigboi5357 Před 6 lety +81

      WarmSoftKitty you're joking, right

    • @thebigboi5357
      @thebigboi5357 Před 6 lety +75

      WarmSoftKitty all you need to do is Google "undersea internet cable".

    • @stuartmacleod8205
      @stuartmacleod8205 Před 6 lety +87

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable. Do your research before you blow up on someone.

  • @TheCon
    @TheCon Před 7 lety +1062

    Prepare yourself for comments from people who only clicked on this video to make a dirty joke

  • @mohamedmahadi3607
    @mohamedmahadi3607 Před 4 lety +115

    It’s hard to find helpful comments

    • @rielylittlefield530
      @rielylittlefield530 Před 4 lety +7

      Wow finally a comment that's not bs lol

    • @godsinbox
      @godsinbox Před 3 lety +3

      maybe you are hearing too much crosstalk? welcome to the wonderful world of copper cables

    • @waiitwhaat
      @waiitwhaat Před 3 lety +4

      @@godsinbox if u were on reddit, id give you a silver.

    • @JamieBainbridge
      @JamieBainbridge Před 3 lety

      For digital, the signal is either on or off so length does not matter until the cable gets so long that the signal drops out altogether. For analog, the signal can be affected by cable length or outside interference so cable length and shielding matters more.

  • @EVPointMaster
    @EVPointMaster Před 7 lety +120

    can we actually get benchmarks of transfer speed and charging speed for different cable lenghts over on LinusTechTips?

  • @Cesar-pq2ck
    @Cesar-pq2ck Před 3 lety +13

    I came here to learn about cables but my self-esteem got a boost while learning.

  • @3117master
    @3117master Před 7 lety +58

    it isn't the length of the cable that matters, but how you use it

  • @krishnaksam
    @krishnaksam Před 7 lety +541

    But I thought size always mattered.

    • @Lyrabon
      @Lyrabon Před 7 lety +6

      Kevin Sam "A to B" (lenny face)

    • @Root174
      @Root174 Před 7 lety

      Ah, AlternateHistoryHub (the avatar).

    • @KittySYT
      @KittySYT Před 7 lety +1

      Nope. I've seen long ones with poor performance 😩

    • @artmanrom
      @artmanrom Před 7 lety +3

      :) This isn't about size but about length. D

    • @artmanrom
      @artmanrom Před 7 lety

      :) Cos just one of those power supplies can provide only 125W at max, you need an internal desktop PSU in order to have more, but that would be adding more heat to the system.

  • @KomakoSemonovich
    @KomakoSemonovich Před 3 lety +161

    Me: interesting.. i might watch it
    Comment section
    *bunch of dirty jokes*

  • @Peasant_of_Pontus
    @Peasant_of_Pontus Před 6 lety +185

    I'm sure everyone has at least once in their liftime run a ridiculously long ethernet cable through multiple floors, windows and rooms to have that sweet wired connection. Hell, I even ran one from one building to another for a while.

    • @Itslewcario
      @Itslewcario Před 6 lety +1

      Peasant of Pontus 😂

    • @buffafett985
      @buffafett985 Před 6 lety +17

      mine currently runs through my vent from upstairs to my room downstairs

    • @jacobanuse
      @jacobanuse Před 5 lety +2

      I run a portable church campus and we run all our inputs into a netgear router and send it all through CAT6 for 150 foot from stage to the soundboard. All 32 channels. Also know a buddy that just installed CAT6 into his parents home with a control center that converts it to hdmi for future proof solution to video and audio transfer through a house with 10 TVs. It’s versatile stuff

    • @teadealer2093
      @teadealer2093 Před 5 lety +5

      we've all dealt with big long cables. ;)

    • @KevinBenecke
      @KevinBenecke Před 5 lety

      I several long run cables. They go down through a hole in the floor and run across the basement and up through another hole at it's destination. There is also one cable that goes upstairs through a hole.

  • @Kainan9600
    @Kainan9600 Před 7 lety +555

    replace the word "cable" in the title of the video

  • @gammoron632
    @gammoron632 Před 7 lety +132

    but the amazing thing is that this video starts from 0:00 and ends at 6:48
    wow

    • @mohamadeen
      @mohamadeen Před 7 lety +4

      THANK YOU saved my time

    • @Candisa
      @Candisa Před 7 lety +19

      PC Master Race Except it ends at 5:29

    • @nicks8991
      @nicks8991 Před 7 lety +4

      PC Master Race Thank you for this amazing comment. I had no clue when the video ended.

    • @gammoron632
      @gammoron632 Před 7 lety +5

      Thanks guys. HOPE I HELPED.

    • @gammoron632
      @gammoron632 Před 7 lety +3

      Lol

  • @jarodvincent6199
    @jarodvincent6199 Před 7 lety +5

    Thank you, you have helped me learn a lot about tech over the past few months. It has even got me sharing your vids with friends and talking about the stuff I have learned here with co-workers. I appreciate all the work you have put into your videos.

  • @noneyours
    @noneyours Před 4 lety +67

    Person: HDMI cables
    Auto captions: HDMI *Tables*

  • @nathanrwin
    @nathanrwin Před 7 lety +43

    Razer called. They want Project Valerie back

  • @Mikedrop1
    @Mikedrop1 Před 7 lety +301

    Size matters [first obvious joke]

    • @Rayer24
      @Rayer24 Před 7 lety +6

      this comment has 69 likes lol

    • @JonatasAdoM
      @JonatasAdoM Před 7 lety

      +Obelisk Extender It's not size, it's circumference, how well isolated it is.

    • @DaybreakPT
      @DaybreakPT Před 6 lety

      AKA Girth.

  • @frederikvanreusel
    @frederikvanreusel Před 3 lety +48

    Linus: Lenght does effect performance
    Me: *Looks at my 10 meter long ethernet cable that I just use to plug my pc 1 meter away in the ethernet port*

    • @zambotwu
      @zambotwu Před 3 lety +2

      Meanwhile i use 30 meter cable to hook up my pc less than 10 meter away from the router

    • @buenapauljasper5745
      @buenapauljasper5745 Před 3 lety +1

      the hit reg of games were better when I used 1 meter cable instead of 15 meters

    • @tiggerwigger
      @tiggerwigger Před 3 lety

      I’m

    • @BooneTheKing
      @BooneTheKing Před 3 lety

      @@tiggerwigger I’m

    • @tiggerwigger
      @tiggerwigger Před 3 lety

      @@BooneTheKing I’m

  • @ayporos
    @ayporos Před 3 lety +7

    Important addition to those copper cables that Linus completely forgot to mention:
    If you use them to power something (i.e. usb) the actual rated distance may differ from the data distance.
    For data all that matters is that the signal at the other end is above a minimum intensity in order to identify a 1 from a 0.
    With power however, you need to have a minimum amount of it arriving.
    As power, or data for that matter, travels through the copper cable some of it is 'spent' overcoming the resistance of the cable itself meaning the voltage at the end will be lower than at the start.
    So while at the 'start' the cable might be fed with 5.0v, at the end that might have dropped to 4.5v or even less.
    Some equipment might work fine with lower voltages, but some outright won't work or won't work properly.
    It's also important to realize that not every USB cable is created equally. The 'usb power' wires in a usb cable can vary in thickness and thus resistance.
    A usb cable with ticker power wires, and thus lower resistance, will drop in voltage less over distance than a (usually cheaper because less copper is used) cable with thinner wires.
    It's also not just a case of "well just feed more voltage into it then to overcome the distance". If you feed 12v into a usb cable that's 10m long and it's dropped down to 5v that means those 'lost' 7 watts (assuming 1 Ampere current) are literally heating your cable up. It could melt or, worse still, catch on fire.

  • @glacial1461
    @glacial1461 Před 7 lety +147

    I have a 40 ft USB extention cable I use to charge my phone. lmfao

    • @ThaMentalGod2003
      @ThaMentalGod2003 Před 4 lety +1

      GLACIAL tf

    • @emufasar1789
      @emufasar1789 Před 4 lety +29

      There will be no bit reflections because it is only transmitting power not data

    • @taylorhoffman4859
      @taylorhoffman4859 Před 4 lety +17

      But you’re all forgetting about the increase in electrical resistance in ohms created by a thinner, or longer cable

    • @noxious89123
      @noxious89123 Před 4 lety +3

      The only USB cables that I can fast charge my phone with are all less than 10 inches long. The longest cables I've used tend to make my phone display "charging slowly". It does matter.

    • @iceManSwag
      @iceManSwag Před 4 lety

      @@noxious89123 use a thicker usb cable mine is 5 meters long and my phone still charges Quick Charge 4.0

  • @itsdeonlol
    @itsdeonlol Před 7 lety +14

    I was rewiring my cable management on my desk when this video popped up in my feed lol!

  • @DeltaSierra426
    @DeltaSierra426 Před 7 lety +3

    Thanks Linus! In the market for purchasing HDMI cables at 30' or 40' long and needed to know if a repeater is necessary. I thought 25' was the safe limit for HDMI... although same are saying that is true depending on the build quality, at which point is a matter of how or miss, or x out y cables are likely to have issues at the given length.

  • @jamesmcbride5807
    @jamesmcbride5807 Před 3 lety

    A big thank you for the simplicity of explanation of such matters. This particular video was a big help with a recent upgrade I am working on, thanks again.

  • @ricofx
    @ricofx Před 7 lety +155

    "longer doesn't necessarily mean better"
    no wonder linus is single..

    • @sparky663
      @sparky663 Před 7 lety +72

      Rico he isnt tho

    • @ozapenguin
      @ozapenguin Před 7 lety +1

      lol

    • @soyusmaximus7176
      @soyusmaximus7176 Před 7 lety

      To be fair, it's not like holding a particular opinion changes one's... "cable-length".

    • @shally9423
      @shally9423 Před 7 lety +69

      Rico single with three kids and a wife

    • @michaelwilsonburns
      @michaelwilsonburns Před 7 lety +22

      Rico Single? The dude has 3 kids and a wife...

  • @chazz0418
    @chazz0418 Před 7 lety +7

    5:25 wow got one grip on that dog

  • @judevecoli865
    @judevecoli865 Před 3 lety +1

    Yay! A clear, concise and comprehensive explanation of the advantages, and limitations, of extending data cables. Thank you.

  • @azyrael96
    @azyrael96 Před 5 lety

    Good video. Was looking for that when planning my projector setup.

  • @SyphistPrime
    @SyphistPrime Před 7 lety +10

    Darn, I wanted an external GPU that was 200 feet away from my gaming rig. Thanks for ruining my dreams.

  • @bunnywarren
    @bunnywarren Před 7 lety +4

    I've been looking at systems where increasing from 0.5m to 1m cables creates a significant (>1%) increase in latency for network traffic so it's not always about signal integrity.

  • @liquidalloy
    @liquidalloy Před 7 lety

    Great video. I do fiber optic splicing and fusing occasionally at my job and it is very tedious work. The machine test for DB loss in the fuse. The worst I accept is a .02 DB loss.

  • @benjaminboateng7066
    @benjaminboateng7066 Před 3 lety

    The only CZcamsr who make serious diverse differences..most of the rest do just phone comparisons but this guy's goes beyond to computers and their peripherals ...u the man keep it up

  • @pmheart6
    @pmheart6 Před 5 lety +4

    Same thing with charging. At 5v, USB charging really can slow at 10 feet (an the cable is easier to damage)
    It's almost better to use a regular extension cord vs long USB cable. Of course, with newer fast chargers negotiating up to 20v, that may not matter. But does the longer length or more change of a damaged bit of cable hamper the negotiation. Defaulting it to 5v

  • @RCSVirginia
    @RCSVirginia Před 6 lety +3

    I have been told that many prefer a long, thick cable with a massive plug on the end to open up and expand the data stream over a short, thin one with a small plug. Or so I have been told.

  • @ryancrazy1
    @ryancrazy1 Před 6 lety

    i love the little bloopers the editors leave in. The bit with the cell phone was funny. Makes the entire video feel more "real"

  • @simplesavingsgenie
    @simplesavingsgenie Před 6 lety +1

    Guys, I just want to say thank you for your videos,
    I frequently watch your streams on both my cell and Roku for updates.
    This particular one, in combination with Luke's VR items are tremendously helpful!
    This explained why my Oculus Rift's 3rd sensor USB cable is at the limit of USB 2.0 and likely needs a hub which isn't included.
    Thanks, Any recommendations on the best usb hub for VR would be welcome :)

  • @jerbearnone2012
    @jerbearnone2012 Před 6 lety +10

    I guess this answers why I can't find a 10 foot USB 3.1 Gen 2 type c connector cable.

    • @vikastiwari1844
      @vikastiwari1844 Před 2 lety

      How long hdmi 1.4 cable will be workable ? I want to keep a good 10feet distance from my 60 inch full hd t.v. while using my cheap 12inch laptop asus eebook 12. Please answer if u know or have any idea.

  • @32bigde
    @32bigde Před 7 lety +14

    "Does length matter?" you wanna find out linus? 😉

    • @liby5958
      @liby5958 Před 6 lety

      he already knows... he just told you in video.....

  • @Dangansona
    @Dangansona Před 3 lety

    These educational videos of yours are my favorite, I love learning about technology like this, when I think of you, these are the videos I think of. I didn’t even know these weren’t on your main channel! Haha

  • @Necropheliac
    @Necropheliac Před rokem +1

    Signal degradation is rough. I had the most messed up problem with a long usb cable extender, and it wasn't a matter of "it either works or it doesn't". The USB cable was "mostly" working but my mouse would occasionally freeze for a second and then resume. Mostly harmless, but for a gamer this won't work. Also the lights weren't syncing on my peripheral devices.
    It was hours and hours of troubleshooting before I figured out it was the usb cable extender. I didn't understand about signal degradation in long cords. It's really, really frustrating.

  • @vinicius401
    @vinicius401 Před 7 lety +6

    The theory is nice. Now take that subject to LinusTechTips and let's see if an HDMI cable will start to fail when surpassing 15 meters.

  • @OfficialDJSoru
    @OfficialDJSoru Před 7 lety +4

    considering what Linus said about the maximum lengths for those cables, I'm pretty happy the only long cable I need is for ethernet, everything else being under 1m long

  • @saskiavanhoutert3190
    @saskiavanhoutert3190 Před 4 lety

    Thank you for explaining especially the difference between cable-possibilities, kind regards.

  • @jacksibrizzi275
    @jacksibrizzi275 Před 3 lety

    Thank you Sir. Very helpful

  • @Sevalecan
    @Sevalecan Před 7 lety +8

    No, Linus, I'm not building a website. Thanks for asking though.

  • @08kylemcl
    @08kylemcl Před 7 lety +3

    Can you explain why Ethernet cables are so much more efficient at transferring data over long distances? Could you also talk about this problem in relation to internet/cable service? :)

  • @ultraali453
    @ultraali453 Před 5 lety

    Nice video as always. Thank you Linus!

  • @Markyroson
    @Markyroson Před 7 lety

    Love the phone call blooper they left in

  • @One-Cut
    @One-Cut Před 7 lety +28

    Stylosa once told me that cable length doesn't matter... ;)

    • @JordyFidis
      @JordyFidis Před 7 lety +5

      "Cable length, does in fact, not matter" ▬ Stylosa

    • @m76mat66
      @m76mat66 Před 6 lety

      TheOneCut I love him :D

  • @HackIt
    @HackIt Před 4 lety +5

    3:50
    So everyone has to insert their cables into one hub? Hmmm......interesting!

  • @writerpatrick
    @writerpatrick Před 5 lety

    This is particularly significant with antenna wiring. Signal is lost as the distance increases and it can be noticed. Although boosters help to overcome this problem. (And it's somewhat relative since I happen to have an antenna running into my computer's TV card.)

  • @Stickynickky
    @Stickynickky Před 8 měsíci

    very informative. thank you!

  • @OkOk-vm4qv
    @OkOk-vm4qv Před 6 lety +9

    2:19 quote from ricegum

  • @StrixTechnica
    @StrixTechnica Před 7 lety +11

    There are a number of technical errors in this video. First, 1:29 you mean resistance or attenuation, not impedance. The characteristic impedance of a cable doesn't change with distance, but signal attenuation does. This is due to dielectric loss as well as ordinary resistance; worse, dielectric loss increases at higher frequencies, which is why higher bandwidth signals (eg USB 3 vs USB 2) are more sensitive to length than lower bandwidth signals.
    3:30 it's not reflections that cause the problem, it's dielectric loss, and reflections are caused by impedance mismatches (usually due to crappy cable and/or connectors). Delay has nothing to do with it, except insofar as delay affects how reflections degrade a signal. A properly designed impedance-controlled transmission line (which these sorts of cables are) should have minimal reflections, can have wide bandwidth and can be much longer than the highest frequency component it carries.
    Example: the actual cable of CATV has a bandwidth of around 800 MHz or so and can carry multiple gigabit digital signals in DOCSIS 3, yet CATV cable runs are commonly way longer than anything you'd find in a single household (and can be miles and miles with appropriate regeneration). The difference is in the design of the protocol, the quality of cable and launch power amongst others.
    Aside from dielectric loss, there are no analogue-domain limitations in principle on the length of a cable, provided it is properly impedance matched. (Example: SATA and SAS are the same protocols and use the same sort of cabling, but SAS has a higher voltage drive so it can reach further.) There's one exception to that: some protocols are designed in such a way that excess latency (delay or response to a message) can break them. GSM phones, for example, have an absolute limit of 35km, regardless of signal strength or boosters.
    3:40 Reflections don't cause damage except in high power RF transmitters because there's just not enough energy in them to do any damage. They will, however, degrade signal integrity which will make the signal unusable.

    • @kilo1951
      @kilo1951 Před 7 lety

      Linus says impedance, not characteristic impedance, so he's right in that regard.
      Dielectric loss causes the signal to not reach the other end, but we're talking about a tighter limit when the signal reaches the other end intact-the device needs to ACK back fast enough. USB is half-duplex but apparently requires a short ACK time. Impedance matching solves the amplitude of reflection so that the host can send another bit faster because it does not have to wait for the reflection to settle nearly as long, but the ACK requirement still limits the delay. Linus is half-right in that reflection can matter, but he fails to point out another limit when reflection is limited via matching circuits.
      You're right that "the difference is in the design of the protocol, the quality of cable and launch power amongst others". Depending on the combination of these factors a standard may hit one limit before another.
      The USB committee thinks that reflection can damage the circuit though www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq/#cab1

    • @StrixTechnica
      @StrixTechnica Před 7 lety +2

      > Linus says impedance, not characteristic impedance, so he's right in that regard.
      Not really. Impedance and attenuation are not the same things. Attenuation is a combination of frequency-dependent dielectric parallel loss and resistive (ie non-reactive) series loss, both resulting in heat dissipation in the cable. Resistive loss gets worse with frequency because of the skin effect, but that's different again from dielectric absorption.
      As you say, dielectric loss causes the signal not to reach the other end of the cable because it's all gone as heat, and there's nothing you can do about that except get lower loss cable or amplify the source driver.
      Impedance (characteristic or lumped), OTOH, is about power transfer. You can transfer all developed power at any impedance (within reason) provided source and sink are matched with the effective impedance of the transmission line.
      I'm simplifying a bit: you can't easily compensate for impedance mismatches in a transmission line with a matching network, however you can use RF traps or stubs as notch filters to filter out specific frequencies, but that doesn't work with baseband signals.
      > Impedance matching solves the amplitude of reflection so that the host can send another bit faster because it does not have to wait for the reflection to settle nearly as long
      As you say, impedance mismatches result in reflections that reduce the power delivered to the load - but the energy hasn't gone away as with attenuation, it's merely not going where it should. Reflections also degrade signal integrity as well as reducing power available at the load.
      In a properly impedance-matched, load-terminated system, you don't need to wait for anything to settle because all transmitted power is fully absorbed by the receiver's terminator and there is no particular limit, save for attenuation, on the rate at which you can transmit bits down a properly matched transmission line.
      Source-terminated systems achieve the same ends but depend on constructive interference from reflected wavefronts to build up full signal magnitude (c.f. parallel PCI reflected-wave switching).
      It's been too long a go since I studied source termination since none of the designs I've worked on use it and I can't remember what happens when the bit rate approaches the return-reflection period or what the implications for USB SI (as opposed to ACK times) would be.
      > when the signal reaches the other end intact-the device needs to ACK back fast enough. USB is half-duplex but apparently requires a short ACK time.
      True, but this is a protocol matter, not a property of the cable and the time scales are completely different.
      Even at a pessimistic 50% c, signals still go about 6 inches per nanosecond or 20 ns per 10' cable. From memory, the polling period of USB 2 high-speed is 125 µs which is about 6000 times slower than the propagation delay in a 10' cable and 600 times slower than a 100' cable (if you could build a lossless cable), which is still plenty of time to return the ACK.
      The cables FAQ you linked talks about a budget of 26ns cable delay for the sake of signal integrity in badly terminated transmission lines, not because of ACK timeouts.
      I'm not sure what the exact timeout is on USB. One source I read suggested 50 ms, but that might only be for lower speed USB devices, and that's 6 orders of magnitude slower than propagation delay.
      > Linus is half-right in that reflection can matter
      Yes, but for the wrong reasons, hence my OP.
      > The USB committee thinks that reflection can damage the circuit though
      They're suggesting that, under the right circumstances, there can be enough constructive reflection interference as to damage the driver.
      Assuming adequate ESD protection, that seems unlikely because I don't see constructive interference amounting to kilovolts.
      Besides, if I remember how source termination works correctly, the outbound wavefront is 50% magnitude and the reflection builds up to 100% magnitude. If USB is source terminated and setting aside inductive effects, it shouldn't be possible to get > Voh.

    • @kilo1951
      @kilo1951 Před 7 lety

      Thanks for the reply. I'm in computer engineering and this conversation again proves how little do I know outside of my own comfort zone. One more question though: why does the USB committee have a tighter limit on low-speed cables (18ns) than high-speed cables (26ns)? This doesn't quite make sense to me and I thought the only reason is the speed the device replies, but as you said it shouldn't matter here. Do they assume low-speed cables are crappier?

    • @StrixTechnica
      @StrixTechnica Před 7 lety +1

      > I'm in computer engineering
      Nominally, I'm a computer scientist but I've ended up doing mostly electronic engineering in my professional career, plus I have a recently-acquired interest in software-defined radio. Just one of those things, I guess.
      > One more question though: why does the USB committee have a tighter limit on low-speed cables (18ns) than high-speed cables (26ns)?
      Good question. I'd have to closely examine the USB standard to answer that properly, but I don't have a copy of it to hand.
      I'm not used to allowing for ringing and poor SI; I'm much more accustomed to ensuring that there is good SI and as little ringing and ground-bounce as possible. IOW, design the protocol to avoid bad conditions, that way you don't have to compensate for them.
      USB is a truly awful protocol (I built a USB HID for a flight simulator), but it's cheap and we're stuck with it.
      > This doesn't quite make sense to me
      Nor to me.
      Normally, propagation delay is a sufficiently small proportion of processing latency that it is largely negligible. For example, 25 ns is 2.5 cycles of a 100 MHz clock, and even that is fairly slow by modern standards. You can do bugger all in 2 cycles, which illustrates why processing delay dominates propagation delay.
      > Do they assume low-speed cables are crappier?
      That would be a reasonable assumption ;) I am sure that cheap, low-speed devices have terrible electrical/SI characteristics.
      USB is a cheap protocol designed for low cost devices. So is PCI Express, albeit on a slightly faster and smaller scale. Were it otherwise, it wouldn't gain sufficient market up-take.

    • @pandaman144.
      @pandaman144. Před 6 lety

      No offence even though it's ages ago ... No one likes know it all's and the words used depend on your country

  • @user-ug6nw8tn2n
    @user-ug6nw8tn2n Před 6 lety

    Very informative and useful!!

  • @oneofakindkev5259
    @oneofakindkev5259 Před 9 měsíci

    I swear this man and his team post the most useful videos

  • @nickhowatson4745
    @nickhowatson4745 Před 5 lety +3

    why do the little clips on the ends of Ethernet cables always break?

    • @ravenplume3968
      @ravenplume3968 Před 4 lety +1

      Probably because they are really weak and fragile plastic with a weak joint.

  • @TheRocketJosh
    @TheRocketJosh Před 7 lety +3

    Dat server room vlog reference

  • @axionx5460
    @axionx5460 Před 3 lety

    This channel answers all the basic questions that keep popping up in my mind ❤️.Love from Bangladesh 🇧🇩

    • @refayatul
      @refayatul Před 2 lety +1

      জয় বাংলা

  • @tarakhenight6185
    @tarakhenight6185 Před 7 lety

    One thing that should be mentioned when talking about electrical cables and wires. When you use cables and wires that are longer then you need and you create a tangled mess you are probability creating impedance along with your mess. Of course if you are one of those people who take care of the mess problem by coiling your excess wire or cable are of course building impedance coils. This can happen even with shielded cables depending on how much electromagnetic bleed out your cables have. Speaker and power wires are especially susceptible to this. I know that I'm stating the obvious but a lot of people seem not to think of this considering some of the power and speaker runs that I've seen.

  • @RadionYT
    @RadionYT Před 5 lety +3

    0:57 I thought he would talk about the sponsor lol

  • @rcmp09
    @rcmp09 Před 7 lety +3

    This has actually been a really big issue for me lately, giving me signal disconnects, flickering horizontal black lines, or completely no signal be detected. Getting 4k 60hz 4:4:4 from by computer to my TV with an HDMI cable around 30ft has proven to be pretty difficult. No matter what cable I buy, or what specs it is rated for, it seems to be a lottery. I've actually had multiples of the exact same cable, with one that works, and the other that doesn't.

  • @gman6862
    @gman6862 Před 5 lety

    Thank you for using the metric system!

  • @albin442
    @albin442 Před 3 lety

    Note: Since you are using specs in the first place: 100m solid core (as a replacement for the permanent/horizontal cable?) is out of specs, it might work or it won't or something in between for people who like troubleshooting. For regular patch cables (AWG24, stranded) the max length would be 85m.

  • @basicaveragetwit4543
    @basicaveragetwit4543 Před 7 lety +58

    My gf dumped me because my length wasn't at least 20ft. 20ft!! WHO NEEDS ALL OF THAT? I can hook up my HDMI from the cable box to the tv... what more does she need?

  • @nukeum9535
    @nukeum9535 Před 5 lety +5

    3:27 silence phone like a pro

    • @xEriklink
      @xEriklink Před 4 lety +1

      Scratching his nuts like a pro, i didn't even notice

  • @theunboxingexperience3480

    good topic to cover. thank you so much

  • @bjorksven
    @bjorksven Před 7 lety

    Well, having a really long cable also affects the signal speed a lot, which can potentially give noticeable delays. The signal in an optical fiber travels at the speed of light in vacuum divided by the refractive index, usually about 1.5 for glass, meaning that it's ~33 % slower than in vacuum. For electrical cables, both digital and analog, the signal speed is probably less. For the cabling used at home, this probably doesn't matter much, but it IS measurable and scales with cable length.

  • @gammoron632
    @gammoron632 Před 7 lety +42

    34 view 78 likes...
    totally viable... youtube logic

    • @99Xero
      @99Xero Před 7 lety +2

      PC Master Race I think a view only counts if you watch more than a % of the video, while a like is a click based count, if I like the video as soon as I start watching it, the like counts, the view doesn't (yet)

    • @donaldbaird7849
      @donaldbaird7849 Před 7 lety

      +Xero no if you click on the video it's a view.

    • @whallynarwhal6019
      @whallynarwhal6019 Před 7 lety +2

      Donald it doesn't work that way. It only registers one after 15s of any video to prevent the viability of clickbots. They used to be a big problem until the limit was added before adding a view count.

    • @gammoron632
      @gammoron632 Před 7 lety +2

      It register after a few seconds....
      Back when CZcams launched it was click based. But now it's duration based. I was just making a joke guys, not make it serious..... Have a great day

  • @alansun697
    @alansun697 Před 7 lety +15

    But can it run Crysis?

  • @designengineerdude1952
    @designengineerdude1952 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Good final destination, but what you don't understand is all stuff on copper is analog, when wire is too long using a digital modulated signal you end up with a high error rate, with no FEC (forward error correction), you get fractals or artifacts. Plastic Fiber suffers not from attenuation, but rather from inter symbol interference due to the different paths through the plastic because the structure is not as uniform as in a glass predictable crystal structure because of how the glass is grown. The plastic causes light scattering smearing the signal causing errors.

  • @colleendearborn6207
    @colleendearborn6207 Před 7 lety

    Helpful explanation.

  • @djagamo4345
    @djagamo4345 Před 7 lety +5

    I love you linus

  • @MackV99
    @MackV99 Před 7 lety +4

    Does size matter?

  • @eliercarcases7283
    @eliercarcases7283 Před 6 lety

    I love this guy's videos. Awesome.

  • @arminask
    @arminask Před 7 lety

    Hi Linus,
    What's your experience with ferrites fitted to cables? Do you think they can be necessary?

  • @Estyk
    @Estyk Před 7 lety +5

    length and girth matters ;)

    • @LukzehVI
      @LukzehVI Před 7 lety +1

      it was funny the first 1000 times it was commented

  • @quantuminfinity4260
    @quantuminfinity4260 Před 7 lety +50

    "but that dose not mean length is irrelevant"
    -Linus 2k17

  • @winamita15
    @winamita15 Před 7 lety

    this video has very interesting and important information. thanks for uploading this video

  • @bruceshark79
    @bruceshark79 Před 7 lety +1

    Hi. What is the maximum lenght for usb-c cable?

  • @321backlip
    @321backlip Před 4 lety +12

    "Length can still matter" 😅 ya see, i'm small but super effective

  • @TechXSoftware
    @TechXSoftware Před 7 lety +6

    It matters, especially when ladies are around :P

  • @andrewg9712
    @andrewg9712 Před 7 lety

    Could you link info sources, like the long cables damaging ports, in the video description?

  • @willqin4628
    @willqin4628 Před 11 měsíci

    this video is still so relevant today.
    Yesterday, my friend asked me the does HDMI 2.1 cable length matters... I request the length since in most cases it does not matter for in-home us. But he said he saw some "post" said matel cable can not be longer than 5 meters... At the moment I am so confused that does "non-metal" HDMI is a thing....

  • @RabbitsInBlack
    @RabbitsInBlack Před 7 lety +4

    What kind of Tech guy is he when he's using an Iphone.

    • @awdadwadwad1723
      @awdadwadwad1723 Před 3 lety +1

      Our whole IT tech department is using iphones, because "it just works"...

    • @EdElectra
      @EdElectra Před 3 lety

      @@awdadwadwad1723 jojo reference

  • @user-yw9of3ip3p
    @user-yw9of3ip3p Před 7 lety +16

    at some point I start counting Linus inhaled

  • @anubisgod23
    @anubisgod23 Před 4 lety

    Tbh it's one of the first things I think about ahah. I'm extremely/analy clean and organised. Cable organisation and the cleanliness of the set up is very important

  • @peterrobertbowers7639

    i also… recently bought a fibre optic, HDMI cable; and they are really good too. Especially for very long lengths. I’m using this fibre optic cable… from my pioneer receiver, into the tv.
    Friday 3rd February 2023. U.K. Southampton

  • @hoangtran4736
    @hoangtran4736 Před 7 lety +7

    5:14. is that... is that a 1000 bucks cable? oh god apple is starting to go too far on this one...

    • @socrguy123
      @socrguy123 Před 5 lety +2

      I have come across this comment after the Apple $1000 monitor stand. Nothing is too far for Apple

    • @FletcherCat
      @FletcherCat Před 4 lety +1

      They had no idea...

  • @TheComedicPCGamer
    @TheComedicPCGamer Před 7 lety +14

    So did the Russian government accept your offer? I want to know what you said in that phone call dammit!

  • @dsha2006
    @dsha2006 Před 5 lety

    I connected my Canon m50 mirrorless to my 2011 macbook air to use as web cam, using open source software. It works, but there is a maybe .5 second delay making it almost unbearable. I'm using a 6ft USB 2.0 A-Male to Micro B Charger Cable. This laptop doesn't have usb 3.0. Do you think getting the 3ft cable would make any difference or is my computer just too slow. Note: the built in web cam doesn't have the same delay (it's much smaller). thanx.

  • @premkumara8962
    @premkumara8962 Před 5 lety +1

    Please anyone reply fast
    ..I want to Connect my Usb Dongle to my PC but I kept the Dongle at the Top of the home for better connectivity ..the distance b/w them is 10M ..So as Linus said Can I use An USB to Ethernet converter to put it on An 10M cat6e cable .?
    Will my dongle work ? And without any loss es ??