Excellent primer comparison. This is not something I'm willing to try myself, I think my 250 grain cast is where I'll stay. I really enjoy your videos, thanks!
Years ago, I developed a 365 gr rebated boattail jacketed flat-point bullet. It was to be for muzzleloaders using a sabot. At the time I couldn't find a sabot strong enough to work with them and decided to try in my Ruger Bisley using smokeless powder. Even with the gun's pinch sights, I could keep 5 out of six shots on a pop can at 100 yds. I have made any for a long time. Maybe I'll fire up the press and do that this winter.
Old timer here. I grew up with a dad who did some really sketchy loads. We were shooting 2 ounce loads out of an old pump 12 Guage. The primer on the 357 was flowing back around the pin strike. If those were magnum, I would worry, but I bet they were just small pistol. The large pistol are not the same. Remington are domed and soft. CCI start out flat and are tough. If you are pushing them use Winchester. They take a lot more. OK, all that said, you have to recognize which primer you used when reading primers!!! Those 45 loads were great. You can seat them longer to drop the pressure in a long gun. I have a coffee can of 9mm loaded long and hot. Marked that way. Don't put them in a pistol.
I was pretty sure that those bullets would generate some very high pressures, despite the fact that a 25 gr charge was used. Good choice going with the Ruger Blackhawk. Those revolvers can really take a beating.
Makes me wonder what kind of speeds you could work up loading with blackpowder in one of those Magnum Research BFR revolvers in .45-70, optionally just _how_ heavy of a projectile you could load in one of those, with or without blackpowder. _Very_ hefty guns, they buy Blackhawk grip-frame castings from Rugers to finish and build on, then make the rest of it in-house.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I have both the 45-70 BFR and the 454 Casull BFR. The Casull has much thicker sidewalls on the cylinder than the 45-70. I would load that up before I would load the 45-70 up. However, I have loaded up both of them with smokeless just to see. The 454 you can safely load up to where I personally don't care to shoot it because it physically hurts to shoot. Those loads are at or under published max. I contacted magnum research about the 45-70 and they said it will handle Marlin lever action pressure levels but not Ruger number one levels. The problem with the 45-70 is the short burn time. I got lots of unburned powder when I tried to go very high with the 45-70, huge muzzle flash with some powders though that was really impressive to see but the chrono said "meh". In the end my accuracy load for the 45-70 with which I have taken several deer is really rather sedate and is trapdoor level pressures with a 405 grain bullet. The bullet I use is an Accurate mold 46-405C and a gator gas check for 45 cal rifle.
@@AndyTheCornbread Most load data for .45-70 would be intended for rifles, so I could see getting some wild flash and loss of speed. For smokeless revolvers, .454 would indeed be the saner choice over .45-70 for _'express'_ .45 caliber loading, it's the intent of the cartridge after all. My pondering was more for how heavy of a projectile you could get away with without running into dangerous margins or completely wrecking accuracy, wouldn't necessarily be good for anything, but it'd be one of those things done for fun. If you had a .45-70 revolver with like a 6" barrel, would it have a snowball's chance in Phoenix to properly stabilize a 500gr projectile? What about even heavier?
Interesting concept, as for your flattened primers, I have some pet 44 mag loads the flattened primers out a bit more than that on a regular basis. In your Ruger, that should be just about the top-end. It does appear acceptable however. The most intriguing cylinder replacement I've seen, is the conversion for the 1858 Sheriff's model with 45 ACP. Seems to me to be a perfect everyday carry idea. Get some Flat Point Keith bullets and load them into the 45 ACP with some 231. Be a helluva round.
Those walker conversions are great. My next conversion will probably be a walker. I have an 1860 conversion and cylinder is pretty short for a 45 colt. 250 grain factory 45 colt won’t fit in it and my solution is loading wadcutters or round ball. It shoots great with both. Love that 405 grain 45 colt by the way.
I gotta say man your channel is becoming one of my favorites on CZcams. Those rounds look like they’re really fun to shoot. I’d totally run them in a raging judge.
No open tops. Those primers are as flat as a pool table. Someone must have an app to estimate those pressures. I’d bet they’re up there. Looking forward to part 2.👍
Take a look at the Starline brass case shown by your right thumb after the shooting. Looks like a circumferance stress mark just ahead of the base. And Starline cases are generally tough.
@@Everythingblackpowder hey thank you man. I've absolutely been loving, watching, and rewatching your videos. I've got probably 10 pages of gun channels I am sub'd too and you're at the top of my current favorites. Now if I can just find a way to get you to explore the old Swiss Vetterli.....hmmm
Here are two 300gr loads Elmer Keith’s Black Powder 45 Colt Load czcams.com/video/szSempNa3gI/video.html 45 Colt “Magnum” czcams.com/video/KOyDEkCUQiI/video.html
I need a rolling block rifle. I've always been enchanted by how dead simple the action is, it takes serious genius to design a mechanical device which is so uncomplicated yet so incredibly sophisticated in its functionality.
That center casing (45 colt) looks like an incipent head separation. Or maybe it's just the light. Either way, interesting video. Look forward to part two.
Open tops should only be used with light "cowboy" loads. I bet you're getting 44 Mag pressure with those. The largest 45 Colt rounds that I shoot are 325gr boolits in my Redhawk and Blackhawk. I wouldn't even shoot them from your SAA. Here's another video idea. Like a black powder puck on fire! Everyone asks me what it would do and I always assumed it would go off like a rocket motor but who knows until it's tried.
I plan to try these in my 7.5" Blackhawk. I am also interested how these resized heavy .452" bullets will shoot in a muzzleloader using a sabot? That is a long projectile, but may still stabilize. It will also mitigate leading in the bore. That may be a cool video to produce? Great channel! 💨 ⚫️ 🎯
The Navy did a test to see how much pressure they could get out of black powder and their final result was 300,000 psi. How they did this, I don't know what procedures they used. I have done what you did but used smokeless powder and discovered that to generate enough velocity to be useful I had to create an extreme overload and accuracy sucked. I used the same bullet you used. Never tested them in a rifle.
I had thought of doing this also, as one of mine has 454 throats and loves 365 slugs, with smokeless. Are you loading them so the bullet is just clearing the end of the cylinder? If not, try that as it gives you more case capacity, they may not cycle through a rifle that way though. I'm interested in the volacity tests also. Great vid by the way.
400 plus grains will certainly jack pressures simply based on available case volume. Like shooting hot 255 cast loads out of a 45acp. Pressures can climb quickly.
Great test!! I have always wanted to try this. but never had a firearm i would be willing to shoot it in. Beautiful colt SAA by the way. Love to see a video on it someday.
Flattened primers isn’t always high pressure. Sometimes low enough pressures cause the primer to back out before the case slams in the recoil shield in this case or bolt face in others. Some primers are softer and flatten when others don’t. Have you tried it with CCI primers? I have had issues from Federals that I haven’t had much of from Remington, CCI or even Winchester primers.
I noticed that blackpowder or the substitutes( tested pyrodex ,triple 7 and black mz ) that primer really doesn't show the picture all that well, and I have tested some warmer triple 7 loads and it shows flatter if not pretty flat primers , I think blackpowder pressures just burns so fast it shows up as high pressure .
Keep in mind flattening primers by themselves don’t necessarily indicate excessive pressure. It could be caused by excessive pressure in this case but it could be other causes too. I thought it was impossible to over pressure a cartridge with Black Powder.
ah yeah you might launch the barrel assembly with those puppies in a wedge gun!! the heaviest i've went is 325 and she did not like those!! mine prefers 250 or 275's!
recoil looked, OK? Think "I would" stick with a more modern Reminton reproduction? the sound was different on the video. Thanks Again for the Info! I'm Pucking A way right now! working out gum Arabic binder, not looking good. Keep your Smoke Poles SMOKING!!
Like Elmer Keith himself, only you had the knowledge to resize the projectile before actually trying this. Wonder if this would work safely with smokeless?
Makes me wonder, what do you get loading a heavy as hell projectile like this but with just like, one single grain of blackpowder, does it just stay in there, or does it make it into the bore like a squib? I wonder what's the slowest you could get a projectile to exit the muzzle?
Are we sure that primer condition is completely due to pressure ? Seems that dwell time and bullet inertia might play a part as well....yes the primer has to contact the back plate and be exposed to pressure to flatten, BUT.. the heavier the projectile ..the more the case will move instead of the bullet and the longer it takes to uncorked the pressure ( 405 might not even open the cylinder gap before encountering significant resistance from the bore ) so say you had comparably low pressure ( still plenty to form brass ) and the bullet remains pretty stationary and the case moves back ....and contacts ...before the bullet exits and starts releasing pressure ... I am thi king you can get pretty good primer deformation with comparatively low pressure ....if the pressure occurs at the correct time and under the correct conditions .....I mean we " fire form" brass with a light hammer blow and water .......that is not enough pressure to disassemble a gun.....but it will form a primer cup .... just something to think about .....maybe patrons can buy tou a strain gauge ?
Heavier bullet -> more inertia -> pressure has time to rise higher before dynamic chamber (before bullet clears muzzle) enlarges. Is that a correct assessment?
You can also get flat primers, from the case setting back against the recoil shield without high pressure. I can't say which, so you're decision not to shoot them in open tops is correct. Even if my suspicion is right you would eventually damage the gun.
@@Everythingblackpowder I was thinking it was setback like he stated, because high pressure would also cause the cases to stick and yours seemed to extract very well. The only real way to know for sure is with a strain guage.
@@Everythingblackpowder the weight of such a heavier bullet being expelled can push a case a little further back. Then the case shrinks back to normal size. This can leave flattened primers without over pressure
@@Everythingblackpowder No because the conditions that I described would shoot the pistol loose and make it unsafe, I said so in my first comment, I thought. The pistol wouldn't explode but it will destroy the timing and other damage. I was just trying to explain why flat primers aren't always a sign of high pressure. It still means don't shoot it in that type of gun.
A Ruger #1 in 45 Colt? Interesting concept and you could certainly load your colt brass higher than max loads and could load longer to get more case capacity.
@scottscheuerman8714 RIP every colt SAA Elmer Keith got ahold of. Thanks for the info. It's been so long since I read his book six guns. I definitely need to read it again.
@@Everythingblackpowder I remember in his book he had used a bullet for the 45-70 and had size it down for his colt he may have been using early smokeless powder I can’t remember and it might have been black powder need to get his book out and re-read the book
Don't plan on these but, my question is I have a rossi 92. What is your opinion in the action strength. I've read the 92is really built tough and can handle hot ruger loads
I dont own one personally so I can’t say but I have talked to folks that shoot ruger loads through their reproduction 92s and they don’t have any trouble at all.
In the Walker should have plenty of room to spare. I would suggest that in the Walker at least the bullet does not need to be set so deep. Curious of velocities. Either way that's a lot of bullet for that cartridge. Also gets me thinking of it in the 45-55 Walker. Mountain man
Is this pressure created by the weight that the power need to move or is it created by the lenght of the projectile and the friction it gets to squeeze it trough the lands and groves? If u would size the bullet back to .450 or .448 so it has less contact with the lands and groves of the barrel would the primer flattening look diffent? i know its been a year old now but i really wonder......What caused these pressures.......Weight or projectile lenght or combination...
I noticed when I got the new model Ruger Vaquero that 300gr pills were too long for the cylinder so had to go with 255s. I guess you didn't get a velocity out of that load?
Good video. Those primers are pretty flat. Shooting them out of a rifle should be interesting, I look forward to that. I mentioned in the comments of a previous video that I would like to take up BP Shooting. What firearm do you suggest for a first timer?
How do you feel about a 300 grain soft lead bullet over 25 grains of fffg and a magnum primer. Shooting it out of a Uberti cattleman. Do you think that is too much pressure for this gun?
In my opinion, no it will be just fine. Elmer Keith ran 35gr with a 300gr bullet for years and was really impressed with it. Modern guns are much stronger than 19th century guns. I have a video on this load if you’re interested
I've been thinking for a long time about getting some thing that would be easy to reload with homemade bp. One thought is a 12g pump or a large caliber rifle. I don't remember hearing of anyone use bp in a shotgun, but would think it should work. One can get, what is it, up to 3 and a 1/2 inch shells? And could use anything from a large slug to... Any thoughts on this?
As we all know the original brass and paper/cardboard shells for breech loaded shotguns were with black powder. I load 12 ga. and 16 ga. for old A.H. Fox doubles (2-1/2” chambers). I use mostly brass shell casings but sometimes cut down paper/cardboard shells. All in 2-1/2” shells, 2F BP, beeswaxed over-powder card wads, stacked wool felt discs (lubed with a moderate amount of black powder lube, aka beeswax/beef tallow), shot, over-shot card wad. I then rollcrimp the paper tubes. The brass shells get glue around the over-shot card in place. Then if I plan to hunt in the wet weather (which is likely around here (P.N.W.) I will seal the over-shot card area of the shell with dissolved beeswaxed. What is dissolved beeswax? Get a short 8-12 oz. glass jar, put shredded beeswax 2/3 full into the jar (do not pack it in tightly), Add denatured alcohol, do not use to much alcohol, use just enough alcohol to get a thin paste, but not watery or runny. Start with a couple ounces of alcohol at most of the alcohol. Put the lid on and give the beeswax time to dissolve. Stirring the mix with stick occasionally helps speed up the dissolving of the beeswax. Use a small cheep natural fiber art brush to paint a little of dissolved beeswax over the over-shot cards. It doesn’t take a whole lot to seal the over-shot card and the shell. When you are done coating all of your over-shot cards & shell mouths just add more beeswax and a dab of alcohol to the jar. Then put lid on the jar and next time you need the sealant will waiting and ready to go. DO NOT use paraffin wax, because that stuff will make a damn mess of the brass shells and in the shotgun bores. Remember this is black powder, not smokeless powder!
Any large revolver or rifle case with a long straight wall tends to be easy. Shotgun shells aren't too tricky either. If you want a suggestion on the subject of blackpowder and large caliber, perhaps a pump-action 12-Gauge shotgun with a rifled slug barrel as an extra, aside from shot with the smoothbore, you could *really* get some fine precision with some very big and heavy projectiles that way. Obviously, such a gun would require a stock and handguard made out of wood. I would have said lever-action shotgun, just to make it feel a little more 'cowboy,' but I'm not aware of any lever-action 12-Gauge shotgun on the market which has a rifled barrel available as a common accessory (but if there's a will, there's a gunsmithing way).
@@NW_Ranger Thanks for the info. I've never seen or heard of paper shotgun shells. From a child going on pheasant hunts in the 1960's with my dad's C.B. club members up to today, I don't remember ever seeing but brass and plastic shells, but it might explain why when out metal detecting I often dig up brass shells with nothing on top. I just always thought being in damp soil for years softened what held them and they had came apart.
You may know this already, but you can ream that Walker cylinder with a 460 mag reamer and use 460 mag brass thus allowing more blackpowder, just maybe not with those heavy bullets. I had my Kirst done and I call the round, 45 Brimstone. I shoot 170g and 147g round balls. It is a fun gun: czcams.com/video/lIpjKgPCXWw/video.html
@@Everythingblackpowder Maybe, I've also heard people refer it to as 45-60-250 and 45 Black Powder Magnum. It is simply 460 mag brass loaded with blackpowder .
I think for the most part, they are manufactured to handle smokeless cowboy loads. The issue is that it’s very easy to overload them. for example, if you were to use 25gr of volume of almost any kind of smokeless pistol powder bullseye, hp38, tight group and others, it would most certainly grenade.
@@Everythingblackpowder I guess I wasn’t thinking about how smokeless powders loads routinely don’t fill the entire cartridge capacity whereas with black powder you can normally pack as much black powder in that it can hold and still seat the bullet and not detonate the revolver. A person would have to be more careful using smokeless.
... but why do the heavy boolits hit higher? It's counterintuitive... is it the recoil?... I'd think lighter lead Flys higher... but with BP- it's different.. WHY BRO?
Your primers are not really the best indicator of pressure. The thing you want to do when playing with experimental loads is to measure the case head on a low pressure round fired from the gun, and preferably a single chamber and then measure the case head on one of your experimental rounds. You do not want to see more than .002” larger on the hot loads, and preferably work up to that point from a lower charge. Also, you will have much greater success crimping in a separate step when loading heavy loads.
hi, to you ... you are a little bit mad ... because that reload is a biggest hazard it can causing a blowup "kaboom" and bye bye to our revolvler and hope it doesn't damage our body too like the revolvers ... 😳😬😁 👋 good luck
The Ruger Blackhawk is a very robust revolver which is well known for holding up to heavy use of high powered loads. There are smokeless powder loads of .45 Colt which would make this 405gr blackpowder load blush, mind that they build .454 Casull revolvers on these same frames. I think he's fine if he sticks to the Ruger revolver. Or, if he did try it in the Walker, whatever happened didn't _kill_ him, so it could have been worse.
A to onedoomedspace ..., hi, to you !!! i don't understand the sense to shooting a super magnum reload in the revolver Colt 73, there are several news specific magnum revolver maked for super magnum cartridges Casull, S&W 460 500 Ruger and many others ... infact, those relods aren't for a revolver 45 Colt and every clone of Colt 73, but only for some specific strong revolver ... i. e. , and the last but not the least the Casull's cylinder has only five chambers ... and the author of this video doesn't say all that and neither doesn't say ti be careful firing those reloads in some weak revolvers ... bye bye 👍
Interesting load. Testing them in the Ruger first was definitely the right call. I look forward to the velocity testing.
Thank you. I thought so too
You could probably test dynamite in the Ruger.
Excellent primer comparison. This is not something I'm willing to try myself, I think my 250 grain cast is where I'll stay. I really enjoy your videos, thanks!
Thank you
Years ago, I developed a 365 gr rebated boattail jacketed flat-point bullet. It was to be for muzzleloaders using a sabot. At the time I couldn't find a sabot strong enough to work with them and decided to try in my Ruger Bisley using smokeless powder. Even with the gun's pinch sights, I could keep 5 out of six shots on a pop can at 100 yds. I have made any for a long time. Maybe I'll fire up the press and do that this winter.
I would love to see it!
@@Everythingblackpowder I just emailed it to you.
Excellent
Old timer here. I grew up with a dad who did some really sketchy loads. We were shooting 2 ounce loads out of an old pump 12 Guage. The primer on the 357 was flowing back around the pin strike. If those were magnum, I would worry, but I bet they were just small pistol. The large pistol are not the same. Remington are domed and soft. CCI start out flat and are tough. If you are pushing them use Winchester. They take a lot more.
OK, all that said, you have to recognize which primer you used when reading primers!!! Those 45 loads were great. You can seat them longer to drop the pressure in a long gun. I have a coffee can of 9mm loaded long and hot. Marked that way. Don't put them in a pistol.
I was pretty sure that those bullets would generate some very high pressures, despite the fact that a 25 gr charge was used. Good choice going with the Ruger Blackhawk. Those revolvers can really take a beating.
Makes me wonder what kind of speeds you could work up loading with blackpowder in one of those Magnum Research BFR revolvers in .45-70, optionally just _how_ heavy of a projectile you could load in one of those, with or without blackpowder.
_Very_ hefty guns, they buy Blackhawk grip-frame castings from Rugers to finish and build on, then make the rest of it in-house.
But you’re not supposed to have any airspace with black powder?
@@Everythingblackpowder Just fill out the difference with a longer bullet.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I have both the 45-70 BFR and the 454 Casull BFR. The Casull has much thicker sidewalls on the cylinder than the 45-70. I would load that up before I would load the 45-70 up. However, I have loaded up both of them with smokeless just to see. The 454 you can safely load up to where I personally don't care to shoot it because it physically hurts to shoot. Those loads are at or under published max. I contacted magnum research about the 45-70 and they said it will handle Marlin lever action pressure levels but not Ruger number one levels. The problem with the 45-70 is the short burn time. I got lots of unburned powder when I tried to go very high with the 45-70, huge muzzle flash with some powders though that was really impressive to see but the chrono said "meh". In the end my accuracy load for the 45-70 with which I have taken several deer is really rather sedate and is trapdoor level pressures with a 405 grain bullet. The bullet I use is an Accurate mold 46-405C and a gator gas check for 45 cal rifle.
@@AndyTheCornbread Most load data for .45-70 would be intended for rifles, so I could see getting some wild flash and loss of speed. For smokeless revolvers, .454 would indeed be the saner choice over .45-70 for _'express'_ .45 caliber loading, it's the intent of the cartridge after all.
My pondering was more for how heavy of a projectile you could get away with without running into dangerous margins or completely wrecking accuracy, wouldn't necessarily be good for anything, but it'd be one of those things done for fun. If you had a .45-70 revolver with like a 6" barrel, would it have a snowball's chance in Phoenix to properly stabilize a 500gr projectile? What about even heavier?
Thank You!!!
Looking forward to the Marlin test. Might make a good way to do some subsonics with Unique. ;)
Interesting concept, as for your flattened primers, I have some pet 44 mag loads the flattened primers out a bit more than that on a regular basis. In your Ruger, that should be just about the top-end. It does appear acceptable however.
The most intriguing cylinder replacement I've seen, is the conversion for the 1858 Sheriff's model with 45 ACP. Seems to me to be a perfect everyday carry idea. Get some Flat Point Keith bullets and load them into the 45 ACP with some 231. Be a helluva round.
Love the 45 Colt. Barreled and chambered a rolling block for 45 colt. Effective round.
Enjoy your videos.
Excellent
Those walker conversions are great. My next conversion will probably be a walker. I have an 1860 conversion and cylinder is pretty short for a 45 colt. 250 grain factory 45 colt won’t fit in it and my solution is loading wadcutters or round ball. It shoots great with both. Love that 405 grain 45 colt by the way.
Now that’s a slug of a different color!😂
I gotta say man your channel is becoming one of my favorites on CZcams. Those rounds look like they’re really fun to shoot. I’d totally run them in a raging judge.
Thank you
No open tops. Those primers are as flat as a pool table. Someone must have an app to estimate those pressures. I’d bet they’re up there. Looking forward to part 2.👍
Take a look at the Starline brass case shown by your right thumb after the shooting. Looks like a circumferance stress mark just ahead of the base. And Starline cases are generally tough.
Awesome video! Somewhere in Arizona the USGS is thinking to themselves...."What the fu$# was that?"
"Hey, it's happening again!"
jeeze who would have thought it would come with a natural 100 yard zero
SCIENCE!! I'm home sick today and this is the first video that came up, hell yea. God bless your efforts brother I'm still enjoying every minute
Thank you
@@Everythingblackpowder hey thank you man. I've absolutely been loving, watching, and rewatching your videos. I've got probably 10 pages of gun channels I am sub'd too and you're at the top of my current favorites. Now if I can just find a way to get you to explore the old Swiss Vetterli.....hmmm
@@emoryzakin2576 excellent, thanks again
It would be interesting to try a 300 grain bullet in the .45 colt
Here are two 300gr loads
Elmer Keith’s Black Powder 45 Colt Load
czcams.com/video/szSempNa3gI/video.html
45 Colt “Magnum”
czcams.com/video/KOyDEkCUQiI/video.html
You can get factory bear defense loads with 300 or 305 grain bullets in 45 Colt. I know Buffalo bar makes some
Thanks so much for the video and the demonstration and the explanation and look forward to the rifle demonstrations. Keep ye powder dry
Thank you
Those would be sweet in my Pedersoli Rolling Block Baby Carbine!
I need a rolling block rifle. I've always been enchanted by how dead simple the action is, it takes serious genius to design a mechanical device which is so uncomplicated yet so incredibly sophisticated in its functionality.
Thanks to Gridlessness for recommending this channel!
The old english motto still alive: "a little powder, a lot of lead..."
That center casing (45 colt) looks like an incipent head separation. Or maybe it's just the light.
Either way, interesting video. Look forward to part two.
Open tops should only be used with light "cowboy" loads. I bet you're getting 44 Mag pressure with those. The largest 45 Colt rounds that I shoot are 325gr boolits in my Redhawk and Blackhawk. I wouldn't even shoot them from your SAA. Here's another video idea. Like a black powder puck on fire! Everyone asks me what it would do and I always assumed it would go off like a rocket motor but who knows until it's tried.
I plan to try these in my 7.5" Blackhawk. I am also interested how these resized heavy .452" bullets will shoot in a muzzleloader using a sabot? That is a long projectile, but may still stabilize. It will also mitigate leading in the bore. That may be a cool video to produce? Great channel!
💨 ⚫️ 🎯
Excellent video. I've tried 405s in my 45 colt ruger Blackhawk with smokeless, also in a 454 Raging Bull. Lots of fun 😮
Thank you. Why was your smokeless load?
Looking forward to the Marlin!
👍👍
The Navy did a test to see how much pressure they could get out of black powder and their final result was 300,000 psi. How they did this, I don't know what procedures they used. I have done what you did but used smokeless powder and discovered that to generate enough velocity to be useful I had to create an extreme overload and accuracy sucked. I used the same bullet you used. Never tested them in a rifle.
I had thought of doing this also, as one of mine has 454 throats and loves 365 slugs, with smokeless. Are you loading them so the bullet is just clearing the end of the cylinder? If not, try that as it gives you more case capacity, they may not cycle through a rifle that way though. I'm interested in the volacity tests also. Great vid by the way.
👍👍 Good test so far, looking forward to part II.
Thanks Mike
400 plus grains will certainly jack pressures simply based on available case volume. Like shooting hot 255 cast loads out of a 45acp. Pressures can climb quickly.
Thats some beautiful case hardening on the SAA
Thank you
Great test!! I have always wanted to try this. but never had a firearm i would be willing to shoot it in. Beautiful colt SAA by the way. Love to see a video on it someday.
Thank you
Spicy! Seems like that weighty and long a bullet may be acting as an "obstruction" and causing the high pressures.
Flattened primers isn’t always high pressure. Sometimes low enough pressures cause the primer to back out before the case slams in the recoil shield in this case or bolt face in others. Some primers are softer and flatten when others don’t. Have you tried it with CCI primers? I have had issues from Federals that I haven’t had much of from Remington, CCI or even Winchester primers.
When you want a Magnum Research BFR but all you have is a Bisley.
I'm going to have to try this out, worst case I have plenty of spare fingers.
😂
Wow! Talk about a hand CANNON!😂
Ouch on 25 grains!
I noticed that blackpowder or the substitutes( tested pyrodex ,triple 7 and black mz ) that primer really doesn't show the picture all that well, and I have tested some warmer triple 7 loads and it shows flatter if not pretty flat primers , I think blackpowder pressures just burns so fast it shows up as high pressure .
Very possible
finally
the 45 BMG
Dang, that’s a heavy weight all right! I think not trying them in the open tops was a good decision.😬
405grn with a 25gr blackpowder charge is only going to be doing about 500fps if the GRT calculator is correct.
That’s what I was thinking. We’ll find out this weekend
Now I believe that would be a bear stopper
Keep in mind flattening primers by themselves don’t necessarily indicate excessive pressure. It could be caused by excessive pressure in this case but it could be other causes too. I thought it was impossible to over pressure a cartridge with Black Powder.
It might be high pressure but it wont have the pressure spike that a smokeless round would have.
@@Everythingblackpowder interesting
ah yeah you might launch the barrel assembly with those puppies in a wedge gun!! the heaviest i've went is 325 and she did not like those!! mine prefers 250 or 275's!
recoil looked, OK? Think "I would" stick with a more modern Reminton reproduction? the sound was different on the video.
Thanks Again for the Info! I'm Pucking A way right now! working out gum Arabic binder, not looking good.
Keep your Smoke Poles SMOKING!!
Like Elmer Keith himself, only you had the knowledge to resize the projectile before actually trying this. Wonder if this would work safely with smokeless?
If you think they are flat, my primers would prob scare your socks off 😂.
Your talkin open tops, your concern is absolutely warrented.
Make sure your arbor is bottomed out right and your walker will be fine! lol
Could you please explain the physics of why they shoot so high at 15 feet out of the revolver. Thanks.
Recoil + time in the barrel the bullet exits slower ( milliseconds) so the barrels recoil ( higher up the target) than a lighter or faster load
Makes me wonder, what do you get loading a heavy as hell projectile like this but with just like, one single grain of blackpowder, does it just stay in there, or does it make it into the bore like a squib? I wonder what's the slowest you could get a projectile to exit the muzzle?
Bet it's got some knockdown power😳
Interesting.
Are we sure that primer condition is completely due to pressure ? Seems that dwell time and bullet inertia might play a part as well....yes the primer has to contact the back plate and be exposed to pressure to flatten, BUT.. the heavier the projectile ..the more the case will move instead of the bullet and the longer it takes to uncorked the pressure ( 405 might not even open the cylinder gap before encountering significant resistance from the bore ) so say you had comparably low pressure ( still plenty to form brass ) and the bullet remains pretty stationary and the case moves back ....and contacts ...before the bullet exits and starts releasing pressure ... I am thi king you can get pretty good primer deformation with comparatively low pressure ....if the pressure occurs at the correct time and under the correct conditions .....I mean we " fire form" brass with a light hammer blow and water .......that is not enough pressure to disassemble a gun.....but it will form a primer cup .... just something to think about .....maybe patrons can buy tou a strain gauge ?
Heavier bullet -> more inertia -> pressure has time to rise higher before dynamic chamber (before bullet clears muzzle) enlarges.
Is that a correct assessment?
very interesting test, look forward to the next video
Thanks
You can also get flat primers, from the case setting back against the recoil shield without high pressure. I can't say which, so you're decision not to shoot them in open tops is correct. Even if my suspicion is right you would eventually damage the gun.
Yes, but the same firearm with a much lighter load doesn’t flatten primers like that so I think it’s pretty safe to say it’s pressure related.
@@Everythingblackpowder I was thinking it was setback like he stated, because high pressure would also cause the cases to stick and yours seemed to extract very well. The only real way to know for sure is with a strain guage.
@@Everythingblackpowder the weight of such a heavier bullet being expelled can push a case a little further back. Then the case shrinks back to normal size. This can leave flattened primers without over pressure
Ask yourself, would you try this load in an open top pistol like a Dragoon or a Walker?
@@Everythingblackpowder No because the conditions that I described would shoot the pistol loose and make it unsafe, I said so in my first comment, I thought. The pistol wouldn't explode but it will destroy the timing and other damage. I was just trying to explain why flat primers aren't always a sign of high pressure. It still means don't shoot it in that type of gun.
Good idea to have a gun that you are comfortable with feeding something a little spicier. Thinking of getting a no. 1 for stuff like that.
A Ruger #1 in 45 Colt? Interesting concept and you could certainly load your colt brass higher than max loads and could load longer to get more case capacity.
Dam,cool
Excellent
Thank you
Kind of shocked that Elmer Keith didn't do this
He might have
I pretty sure he did I think that is how he took the top 3 holes in his cylinder and the back strap on a Colt single action off of the gun
@scottscheuerman8714 RIP every colt SAA Elmer Keith got ahold of. Thanks for the info. It's been so long since I read his book six guns. I definitely need to read it again.
With this load? No.
@@Everythingblackpowder I remember in his book he had used a bullet for the 45-70 and had size it down for his colt he may have been using early smokeless powder I can’t remember and it might have been black powder need to get his book out and re-read the book
Don't plan on these but, my question is I have a rossi 92. What is your opinion in the action strength. I've read the 92is really built tough and can handle hot ruger loads
I dont own one personally so I can’t say but I have talked to folks that shoot ruger loads through their reproduction 92s and they don’t have any trouble at all.
Ready for part 2
This is cool test
Thank you
In the Walker should have plenty of room to spare. I would suggest that in the Walker at least the bullet does not need to be set so deep. Curious of velocities.
Either way that's a lot of bullet for that cartridge. Also gets me thinking of it in the 45-55 Walker.
Mountain man
Excellent point about the COAL in the Walker. I had not thought of that.
You should know CZcams is crashing my app whenever I turn on your videos now
I’m too
I'd like to try them in my handi rifle
Is this pressure created by the weight that the power need to move or is it created by the lenght of the projectile and the friction it gets to squeeze it trough the lands and groves?
If u would size the bullet back to .450 or .448 so it has less contact with the lands and groves of the barrel would the primer flattening look diffent?
i know its been a year old now but i really wonder......What caused these pressures.......Weight or projectile lenght or combination...
What about accuracy of black powder?
I noticed when I got the new model Ruger Vaquero that 300gr pills were too long for the cylinder so had to go with 255s. I guess you didn't get a velocity out of that load?
Next video
@@Everythingblackpowder Yah, I noticed after I'd posted the comment that the video had just uploaded. Curious to find out what you get.
Can you compress the black powder that you made using the dry method
Yes, About the same amount as Swiss
Now head to the other end of the scale and load a round ball in a .45-70 lol
Good video. Those primers are pretty flat. Shooting them out of a rifle should be interesting, I look forward to that. I mentioned in the comments of a previous video that I would like to take up BP Shooting. What firearm do you suggest for a first timer?
Pistol or rifle?
@@Everythingblackpowder pistol to start with.
I would recommend any steel frame cap and ball 1860 or 1851.
@@Everythingblackpowder Cool thanks for the info . I will ask Santa lol.
Pumpkins are best filled with water.
"45/70 wannabee" 😂
It exist difference in speed of bullet ? Black powder compare with smokeless powder?
What do you think about SVD on black powder? 7,62*54 was used with black powder ,maybe it must work normally?
I haven’t tried it
@@Everythingblackpowder try
He did load up a .30-06 Springfield rifle with blackpowder once, that would you a rough idea of ballistics.
I'm just starting out but it seems obvious that I can use that 45/70 bullet in my 45 flintlock for hunting, right?
Uh, is your flintlock rifle a .458 or .459 bore?
Hey I was wondering have you tried blackpowder in a silenced weapon? Subsonic right?
Nope
@@Everythingblackpowder With my imagination and your skill level I can see great things for Everything Blackpowder. Lol. I just wondered.?
How do you feel about a 300 grain soft lead bullet over 25 grains of fffg and a magnum primer.
Shooting it out of a Uberti cattleman.
Do you think that is too much pressure for this gun?
In my opinion, no it will be just fine. Elmer Keith ran 35gr with a 300gr bullet for years and was really impressed with it. Modern guns are much stronger than 19th century guns. I have a video on this load if you’re interested
czcams.com/video/szSempNa3gI/video.htmlsi=4xhoy5X8EKwT37aB
I just tried this load out of my Devil Anse. It's hard hitting, but a peach to shoot. Think I'll move up to 35 grains.
I've been thinking for a long time about getting some thing that would be easy to reload with homemade bp. One thought is a 12g pump or a large caliber rifle. I don't remember hearing of anyone use bp in a shotgun, but would think it should work. One can get, what is it, up to 3 and a 1/2 inch shells? And could use anything from a large slug to... Any thoughts on this?
I load 12 and 10 gauge shotshells with BP it works swell.
As we all know the original brass and paper/cardboard shells for breech loaded shotguns were with black powder. I load 12 ga. and 16 ga. for old A.H. Fox doubles (2-1/2” chambers). I use mostly brass shell casings but sometimes cut down paper/cardboard shells. All in 2-1/2” shells, 2F BP, beeswaxed over-powder card wads, stacked wool felt discs (lubed with a moderate amount of black powder lube, aka beeswax/beef tallow), shot, over-shot card wad. I then rollcrimp the paper tubes. The brass shells get glue around the over-shot card in place. Then if I plan to hunt in the wet weather (which is likely around here (P.N.W.) I will seal the over-shot card area of the shell with dissolved beeswaxed.
What is dissolved beeswax? Get a short 8-12 oz. glass jar, put shredded beeswax 2/3 full into the jar (do not pack it in tightly), Add denatured alcohol, do not use to much alcohol, use just enough alcohol to get a thin paste, but not watery or runny. Start with a couple ounces of alcohol at most of the alcohol. Put the lid on and give the beeswax time to dissolve. Stirring the mix with stick occasionally helps speed up the dissolving of the beeswax. Use a small cheep natural fiber art brush to paint a little of dissolved beeswax over the over-shot cards. It doesn’t take a whole lot to seal the over-shot card and the shell. When you are done coating all of your over-shot cards & shell mouths just add more beeswax and a dab of alcohol to the jar. Then put lid on the jar and next time you need the sealant will waiting and ready to go.
DO NOT use paraffin wax, because that stuff will make a damn mess of the brass shells and in the shotgun bores. Remember this is black powder, not smokeless powder!
Any large revolver or rifle case with a long straight wall tends to be easy. Shotgun shells aren't too tricky either.
If you want a suggestion on the subject of blackpowder and large caliber, perhaps a pump-action 12-Gauge shotgun with a rifled slug barrel as an extra, aside from shot with the smoothbore, you could *really* get some fine precision with some very big and heavy projectiles that way. Obviously, such a gun would require a stock and handguard made out of wood.
I would have said lever-action shotgun, just to make it feel a little more 'cowboy,' but I'm not aware of any lever-action 12-Gauge shotgun on the market which has a rifled barrel available as a common accessory (but if there's a will, there's a gunsmithing way).
@@NW_Ranger Thanks for the info. I've never seen or heard of paper shotgun shells. From a child going on pheasant hunts in the 1960's with my dad's C.B. club members up to today, I don't remember ever seeing but brass and plastic shells, but it might explain why when out metal detecting I often dig up brass shells with nothing on top. I just always thought being in damp soil for years softened what held them and they had came apart.
I think you would do better with point and shoot. The sights are whats messing you up.
I'd expect that to be tumbling and keyhole, still, there's nothing not cool about yeeting a 405gr out of a 45 colt.
I've been asked this very question if the 459.8s chamber! And request follow up videos to dispell stupid MFs paranoia radio questions Please!
I think you are lucky those didn't fit your SAA. Not sure the cylinder could have taken those pressures.
Heavy Weight 45 Colt, Part 2
czcams.com/video/Avg2nnrLnCk/video.html
You want a bad ass walker ??? Rent a 460 chamber reamer and you got a handful bro… I did that… lol… I love it.
You may know this already, but you can ream that Walker cylinder with a 460 mag reamer and use 460 mag brass thus allowing more blackpowder, just maybe not with those heavy bullets. I had my Kirst done and I call the round, 45 Brimstone. I shoot 170g and 147g round balls.
It is a fun gun:
czcams.com/video/lIpjKgPCXWw/video.html
That’s interesting. I’ve heard of something they call a 45-55. It that the black powder version of the 460 mag you’re talking about?
@@Everythingblackpowder Maybe, I've also heard people refer it to as 45-60-250 and 45 Black Powder Magnum. It is simply 460 mag brass loaded with blackpowder .
Wikipedia ( i know ) has an article on the 45 blackpowder magnum , I was going to convert a single shot ( 45lc/410) to the round just for experiments
Is there a reason that a cap and ball revolver or single shot can’t be manufactured that could handle modern smokeless powder at modern pressures?
I think for the most part, they are manufactured to handle smokeless cowboy loads. The issue is that it’s very easy to overload them. for example, if you were to use 25gr of volume of almost any kind of smokeless pistol powder bullseye, hp38, tight group and others, it would most certainly grenade.
@@Everythingblackpowder I guess I wasn’t thinking about how smokeless powders loads routinely don’t fill the entire cartridge capacity whereas with black powder you can normally pack as much black powder in that it can hold and still seat the bullet and not detonate the revolver. A person would have to be more careful using smokeless.
Definitely
... but why do the heavy boolits hit higher? It's counterintuitive... is it the recoil?... I'd think lighter lead Flys higher... but with BP- it's different.. WHY BRO?
No chronograph testing? :(
Next video
@@Everythingblackpowder Awesome, looking forward to it. I'm always surprised by the chrono data, it always exceeds my guesses, which is a great thing.
@@Everythingblackpowder It's been 8 days....c'mon now, upload another video! lol.
Your primers are not really the best indicator of pressure. The thing you want to do when playing with experimental loads is to measure the case head on a low pressure round fired from the gun, and preferably a single chamber and then measure the case head on one of your experimental rounds. You do not want to see more than .002” larger on the hot loads, and preferably work up to that point from a lower charge.
Also, you will have much greater success crimping in a separate step when loading heavy loads.
lol thanks. Tell me, would you try these loads in an open top Colt conversion gun?
@@Everythingblackpowder if the measurement were good on the cartridge base, yes.
@@theshootersapprentice So give these loads of try then
@@Everythingblackpowder it is impossible to get black powder here in Alaska.
So make your own. That’s what we do.
hi, to you ...
you are a little bit mad ... because that reload is a biggest hazard it can causing a blowup "kaboom" and bye bye to our revolvler and
hope it doesn't damage our body too like the revolvers ...
😳😬😁
👋 good luck
Says who?
@@Everythingblackpowder, good luck to you ...!!!
you need of it a lot when you firing these reloads ...
😜👋
Thanks
The Ruger Blackhawk is a very robust revolver which is well known for holding up to heavy use of high powered loads. There are smokeless powder loads of .45 Colt which would make this 405gr blackpowder load blush, mind that they build .454 Casull revolvers on these same frames.
I think he's fine if he sticks to the Ruger revolver. Or, if he did try it in the Walker, whatever happened didn't _kill_ him, so it could have been worse.
A to onedoomedspace ..., hi, to you !!!
i don't understand the sense to shooting a super magnum reload in the revolver Colt 73, there are several news specific magnum revolver maked for super magnum cartridges Casull, S&W 460 500 Ruger and many others ...
infact, those relods aren't for a revolver 45 Colt and every clone of Colt 73, but only for some specific strong revolver ... i. e. , and the last but not the least the Casull's cylinder has only five chambers ... and the author of this video doesn't say all that and neither doesn't say ti be careful firing those reloads in some weak revolvers ...
bye bye
👍
Algorithm comment
Probably won't cycle in your lever gun.
It works in my 1894 Marlin
Loaded some out to end of cylinder read would improve accuracy. Would run in my Winchester 94. Pistol was Ruger in 45 L C
Plastigage.
Please can you make a video showing how to make Black powder without buyng nothing ?