Many years ago I was playing around using Red Dot. Don't remember the charge but they were lite. 400 or less with a round ball. I was looking for a 25 yard rabbit and squirrel load. The loads were a little light. Decided to see how deep they would penat 10:22 rate in a willow tree. I walked up to 5 feet and shot the tree. I received a sharp pain in my chest. I put my hand over pain then looked at my hand. I had the round ball in my hand. That was the last time I shot a willow tree. Good video. Keep them coming.
Another winning video! Thanks! I spent a few years up in Northern Ontario, and one of my favorite "plinking" loads was a primer only, with a hard beeswax bullet. I kept my 7.5" Colt SAA by my side at the reloading bench in the basement filled with these, and when a target of opportunity presented itself, it was sufficient to dispatch the invader without destroying any property. We had *BIG* spiders up there!!! And lots of them. My other load, which I still use, is 8 grains of Unique (AKA flammable dirt) behind a 200 grain SWC. I'm working on perfecting my homemade Black, following your suggestions, because "store bought" is priced ridiculously up here in Kanada! Best wishes to you!!
A friend of mine has had pretty interesting results using plastic bullets and four to five sheets of magicians flash paper just enough power to get out of the barrel and produce reasonable accuracy and he has a little indoor range he’s set up in his basement.
@@Everythingblackpowder also Bloke on the range did a video a few years ago I think doing something similar with rifle cartridges. If memory serves one of the cartridges they demonstrated doing this with was taking a 12 gauge 00 buck pellet and putting it on top of an 8mm Lebel case, they had put I think two or three sheets of flash paper and primed the case as normal.
I used to do that except I'd make bullets out of hot glue. The only propulsion needed was the primer. The bullets had to be lubricated otherwise hot glue would build up in the barrel.
Trail boss powder is pretty good stuff for gallery loads. It is really flakey big granules so it fills up cases nicely. You can use it for reduced power loads and subsonic loads in just about everything. It makes for some interesting experiments as well.
I've been using Trail Boss in my .30-06 to make a light load and also in my .38 Special Snubby pocket pistol for a round I can shoot here on my farm if I need to without having to grab ear protection.
I loaded some mousefart 45 Colt loads with titegroup for my sillouette shoot today and the older guys were suggesting trail boss. Too bad I've never seen it for sale at the local shops. Probably is discontinued now
My .44 mag gallery load is 3.5 bullseye, 260 ww cast swc, no filler. My .357 gallery load is .38 special case, 1.7 bullseye, 160 ww cast, no filler. Both have zero recoil. Both loads smoke up the case. Zero leading. In fact they thoroughly clear leading from the barrel from my normal mid loads and leave it shiny bright. By the way I bought that Speer manual new in 1980. Edit to add, they punch about 1-1.5" into the end grain of firewood.
I load gallery loads in 45 Colt and 44 Magnum using round balls and Clays. Like shooting rimfires and stupidly accurate. The 44 load from a Super Redhawk with a scope plopped out about a 1/4" group (hard to measure one ragged hole) at 25 yards from the bench! Titegroup has a very similar burning rate to Bullseye, but is not very position sensitive, so would be a good choice in that application.
Hmm, so I guess that .38 LONG Colt is wrong as well, right? It was the ordinance office that used the "Long" designation to prevent the Colt cartridges from being sent to units with the Schofield Revolvers, since they would be useless. There are commercial loadings from the 1880s marked .45 LONG Colt. It's not something Hollyweird came up with.
So what caliber is a colt 45? Colt made multiple 45 caliber cartridges and they don't want any confusion so saying 45 long colt removes any confusion, just like 41 long colt and 38 long colt, or 22 long rifle.
My gallery load for my 45-70 is a cast 45 colt bullet that I powder coat and trail-boss. Very fun, and everyone is surprised. Oh I thought the 45-70 had a lot of recoil. Oh it can but these are mouse fart loads.
For those that don't know as long as the bullet clears the barrel you can load as light as you want (and in semi-autos of course you need reliable operation of the mechanism which includes slide movement, lockup, loading, extraction, and ejection), but with black powder if you load down you can't allow any airspace or you have a safety problem as an air bubble forms during ignition in any excess airspace creating excess stress on the cartridge and firearm, so you have to use a filler as he did. Grits, cornmeal, cream of wheat, or filler wads of wool or disks made of cereal box type cardboard or card-stock paper if the distance is small will all work although I feel cardboard presents more of a safety issue because in theory in a revolver it could wedge between the bullet and the forcing cone or barrel wall causing a catastrophic failure of the firearm, even though I've never heard of that happening. Even with smokeless powder a filler is good if you are reducing your loads by more than a maybe two full grains below what a reloading manual lists as the minimum regular load. It's an easy thing to correct in a straight walled pistol cartridge, but not easy to correct in a necked one like the .223. Either way the lesser powder will settle horizontally and you'll get uneven ignition and erratic pressures and velocities. Medium loads and upper medium loads are not only designed for safety, but also for optimal case capacity fill to ensure even ignition which results in better accuracy.
This is such an excellent channel. Im newish to the c&b gun thing and theres so much good info here. Between you and guns of the west, I have almost everything I could ask for in terms of questions being answered. Yall even answer questions I didnt know I had sometimes. Cant tell you the value of these videos to someone like myself
Thanks for showing us this. You have too much fun.🙃This takes me back to when I was a kid I got to shoot in the shooting gallery in Frontierland at Disneyland. Dad said they used Model 62 Winchesters. Sure beats using BB guns.
I think I saw some round ball loads in an old Lyman Black Powder Handbook but they were for smokeless, maybe/ maybe not I tried some like 25 years ago fun! In the grits cream of wheat discussion, I will use corn meal because that's what is in the cabinet. 😆
I just got into Cowboy Action shooting with my pair of Pietta single action revolvers. I am definitely going to load some of these gallery loads. Also the round ball is an interesting idea.
I've been saving baked coffee grounds for inclusion in casting sand, but have been thinking of using the coarse (sieved) grounds for .375Mag BP dead space reloads.. should smell better..
I have shot galleri loads our of a Pedersoli Rem. 44. 1 22 lr case full of Swiss 4f Pan powder topped of with fine ground coffe, 454 balls lard on top. Shot one ragged hole at 25 meters over a sandbag. I think that 22 lr scoop of powder was 7 grains It was fun, just a little pop an one could see the rb in the air on its way. Wasn't my idea, saw it on the Hungarian fella, "Capandball" on yt years ago.. here in Norway Swiss bp Costa 150 us money pr kilo an i have to drive a whole Day to buy it. Btw I enjoy Your vids very much. I would like to see a vid with accuracy testing the Brown bess over sandbags with tight fit patch. I am settin up to do it myself, but I' an old guy , ball joints busted, main engine at 50 % so we'll see. Regards, Stan 10:22
I really like unique and red dot. I use them in rifle gallery loads too. I believe it is referred to as "THE LOAD" on account of the wide variety of cartridges that it can serve with the same charge.
As far as card wads go, even below a filler. I had a guy bring in a rifle that had a stuck case. He was a competition black powder shooter with a 45-90 and always shot 65grains of Goex cartridge with a card was and filler. It only took once, but it ringed his chamber. He got away with it for years. This is my take on it, using a card over a light charge even with a filler works really well, until it doesn't. I stopped using card wads with light loads years ago, and just use filler now. Just my two cents. Nice video btw.
@@Michael-rg7mx it was black powder cartridge, it may be a void, but still never had a problem or even heard of one with compressed filler. I always keep the wad, if I use one, at the base of the bullet.
I've always suspected that could happen and even put it in my own comment as a possibility, but wrote that I've never actually seen it happen. Thanks for providing a case where it actually did.
I have the older Speer manual that gives round ball data for a lot of cartridges, I never loaded any, not for any particular reason, just didn’t. I also never had a 45 colt. I always used a 44mag / 44spl and a lot of 357 & 38. As soon as I build that new bench I’m setting the reloading gear back up
I hope to be reloading 45LC this coming week. I think I will try some gallery loads with round balls in addition to my regular 255 grn. cast bullet loads. Thanks for this video.
I've seen published loads with Unique powder and that roundball listed as 6.5 grains and Red Dot as 4.3, which is more than the loads listed in that manual.
A bit old video, but i will comment anyway :) A guy in my shooting club load his Remington 1858 cal 44 with 10 grains of FFF Swiss, it take like a minuite for the bullet to reach the target at 25 meters / 27 yards, but its accurate as hell!
You want the new shooters to have fun. A good start is light accurate loads, so that they can hit the steel, will make them fans of shooting! Something about that bullet hitting steel sound, that people like. Great Video, Man! Hawk
In .38Spl I load 2.6gr VV310, witha a 105gr Lee SWC that is seated flush with the case mouth. Very accurate and mild. I tried it with a more normal OAL,but it was a terrible load, with bad combustion.
That 15 grain load of Swiss 3f and the 144 grain round ball is an extremely light load in .45 colt. I use HSM .45 colt 200 grain light smokeless cowboy loads in my Uberti 1858 Remington style new model army revolver using my Howell fluted .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder in it and I’m getting a velocity of about 700 to 750 feet per second and over 200 foot pounds of energy. I always save my brass and I reckon a nice reload might could be a 30 grain load of Swiss 3f and a 200 grain lee mould conical but idk because I’ve never done reloads
Actually gallery guns were invented when blackpowder was the only propellent. The .22 short was the most popular. Most didn't use powder at all as they were all small caliber balls from 22 to 25 cal like the 6mm Flobert as an example and used only a percussion cap to propel the projectile. I'm not aware of any centerfire smokeless gallery guns. Never really researched them though. I do know replica's are still available in Europe. Most people that use centerfire for gallery use a wax bullet and primer...no powder of course.
I know I'm late to the party but I also went down the rabbit hole of reduced loads. I used Red Dot for everything in let say .223 up to .308. If you don't know what you're doing it can be an explosive ordeal, but like you say if you find this dangerous or careless go sit on a unicorn horn and spin around for awhile. Black powder is great in that as long as you fill the space you can shoot it, but who has time to just do that. Down the rabbit hole and trying to not blow myself up like a Kentucky person we all know.
RE Goofy smokeless loads: I like those very light loads using a 160gn (cast with Lee mold) and about 5-6gn of 231, which I got a ton of when it was cheep..... To keep the load from being "Goofy", I push the powder back against the primer by using a snippet of Backer Rod of the correct diameter under the boolit. Seems to be fairly non-goofy as to recoil and POI - don't have a functioning chrono any more (sad story!)
i seen you say on another video about how you tumble your cast round ball to help remove the sprue... do you notice any diameter change when you tumble? i seen that ball and it reminded me... great loads ive had great results with american select in making lighter loads in my 1858 with a conversion cylinder
Question: Watching this video I had an idea. I'm not sure if it's smart or stupid, lol. Can you use an overshot card on a smokeless load where there is a small amount of powder in a large case? Maybe seat it half way down? I can't see it increasing pressure... but that's for you to find out ;) I use TG on my light loads because it's said not to be position sensitive. Although I read somewhere that the newer Unique is also not position sensitive. My ES (what you call MS) is low. But in your case I wonder if it would help/work?
i have been handloading since 1967, yes i am old but i started when i was 10 years old, so i do have some considerable experience. one day around 1994 loaded up some 148gr. HBWC 38 specials with 2.7gr. of bullseye. about 1000 of them. i was shooting my wife's brand-new lady smith. on about the 3rd cylinder full, the gun made a funny noise and i got sprayed with lead. the cylinder blew apart and the top strap was bent! i am a carful handloader. i knew i did not double charge. then i read peoples accounts of very light charges of bullseye blowing guns up! they call it detonation, and it is! ever since then i am very careful with bullseye! no real light charges for me! and i threw away the rest of the rounds, they are hard to pull in that configuration so beware,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have heard about this with bullseye also, that is why I only use unique for light loads, as their are some other pistol powders that will detonate also. I am not as old as you, but I have been reloading since 1980, and now make or convert brass for obsolete cartridges.
I’m not sure if 2.7 gr of bullseye should be called a light load, at least in the gallery context. With a 148 grain wad cutter it is close if not equal to the typical Federal Match target loads. Certainly light compared to 4.5 grains of Unique using a 168 grain Elmer Keith bullet, or a 357 mag load. I believe the ones that are talked about possibly detonating would be more in the 1-2 grain region, or when using a very small amount of a slow burning powder in a rifle in the attempt to make a gallery load. I’ve read that is a real no-no. I too have been loading for more years than I care to relate, and have had some small loads of bullseye when measure was running low, or an incomplete powder dump and (so far) no issues. I have had more than one squib load where the bullet never cleared the barrel. If that happened to an inexperienced shooter, the next shot would do exactly as described. O.R.
25 grains under 200 gr boolit was the military recipe for 45 Schofield if I recall correctly. As for the the smokeless loads, maybe old powders were different? 🤔
I have been doing that for years I believe I used I believe 4.5 grn of W231 powder with 451 round ball.because that is what I have on hand, have loaded the round balls in 45ACP also,,as always this is not to be used informational only
My biggest per peeve is the spilling of the powder when they load it into the measure and just letting it fall on the ground. FINALLY SOMEONE CAUGHT IT!😁 But even with the smokeless loads, I'd still want to top it off with a card and cream of wheat to help keep the powder up against the primer.
Don't see the need for filler. I load a gallery load for my 45-70 trapdoor with a alox lubed round ball pushed down onto the powder in a 45-70 case, just like loading a short barreled BP pistol. Load the 45 colt case same way for the 45 colt adapter for my Martini Henry. Want to shoot your wheel gun in the garage, just use primer, (no powder!) and push the mouth of the case into about 1/4 inch of white sealing wax to make a wax bullet. Put your target on a cardboard box. It's a kick in the pants. ( Don't try this at home. I'm what you call an un-professional)
Question! So why do you need to eliminate the air space in the BP loads, in a different video you were talking about how the air gap being dangerous was way over stated, what's different here? Looks like a fun load.
Excess space causes air bubble when firing black powder that can rupture cartridge or firearm and makes for uneven powder distribution in the cartridge as the powder settles horizontally when the case is in the firearm so it doesn't burn even. And generally black powder burns much better and more evenly when compressed anyway so it's always best to use a filler if firing reduced loads using black powder cartridges. In muzzle loaders you don't have to worry about it of course because the bullet will be seated against the powder anyway.
Now that's kinda funny stuff. Now I would slightly argue that a full house 30-40 hr load under a round ball 8n itself could be considered a gallery load. Just based on the lightness of the ball doesn't produce a lot of recoil. Now coudo's for making sure to covering air space/ pockets. Now I know its hard for even for myself to grasp that i have been into this black powder thing since 1972, and the addition of years that involves. However I never stop experimenting. For an example I going to attempt a 50-60 grain load in my 1866 Remington carbine. First with my 165 gr then my 190 gr bullets. Any guesses how I accomplish that?
@@Everythingblackpowder leverguns50 tested my largest bullet at 271 grs out of a Walker I think at 998 fps. I think I can do better. Have found some solutions for my vision issues.
Try deep seating your round balls. Tiny amounts of powder will give you an accurate and very quiet load. I'm not posting my recipe because I've done a lot of study and research into this, but the information is out there if you want it.
If you're interested, do a search for deep seating round balls. There's a great thread on the High Road that should come up. Pay attention to the posts from Clark. He gets it. I'm casting my own round balls and I use 45 Schofield brass to build mine. Reducing case volume gets the pressure up with less powder and less noise. You can easily hit 600-700 fps with less than a grain of fast powders.
Thanks, I am new to this and like the cowboy loads. If it is not needed for smokeless, that's good. Is it because of the burn time for the different loads
What happens if there’s air space between the projectile and powder? Also curious if you have ever tried hemp charcoal? I’ve tried many different types of charcoal this seems to be the fastest for me.
If the bullet is tight against a black powder charge it will start moving as it burns. If there is a big air space the black powder will be burning all through the charge as the air compresses. When the bullet starts moving the pressure spikes. People say things like explodes or detonates incorrectly. But the result is a bulge or ring at the thinnest point. This is mainly in a shotgun or rifle. In a revolver the plunger only goes so far. If the ball isn't seated accuracy suffers. In a cartridge it has a huge affect on accuracy. The grain can settle into the powder while driving around. That's why a card is used to separate them. All of this only applies to black powder!!!
nothing... nothing bad happens lol. Gun powder (black powder) burns incredibly fast, regardless of if there's air or not (as a combustion reaction, it does burn slightly faster when under pressure, but not to extent that progressive propellants like smokeless powders do). The only thing that happens with increased dead-air space in the case is a reduction in pressure (since it takes gas to pressurize the dead space) (same phenomena occurs with smokeless powder (20gr of Red Dot in a .45-70 case w/ 500gr bullet vs same loading in a .460SW case) in cartridges and in airguns with excessively long bolt-probes) . If you go ridiculously light (like 5gr in a .45 colt case with a 250gr bullet), you could possibly get a stuck bullet, but even that's not likely in a pistol length barrel. Because the flame spread in Black powder is so rapid (the reason it's still used in modern artillery propellant charges), it's not terribly position sensitive, so as long as the cartridge/load OAL is consistent, the load is consistent (an issue in Muzzle loading guns, since the projectile can move around, that's the reason people back in the day defaulted to placing the projectile against the powder, not for safety reasons (that being said, expect the projectile to move around while you're out and about with the gun, it just happens)). A lot of nonsense exists in the shooting world, especially in modern black powder shooting. It takes a strong-willed person with critical thinking skills and a desire to dive into research to not fall victim to it (because the nonsense is regurgitated ad nauseum on forums, and has an almost cult-like group of true believers, to the point where they make up stories that defy science and logic to substantiate the nonsense and viciously attack those who dissent). Example: not long ago, I had a discussion with someone on a BP related forum that swore up and down that a 60gr charge wasn't enough for hunting anything bigger than rabbit, and he went as far as to claim that he shot an Elk at 40 yards with a rifle musket, loaded with 60gr of powder and a 500 something grain minie-style bullet, and it didn't make it past one lung with a "perfect broadside shot".... meanwhile, I've had that loading go through market steers (we butcher our own beef, I test guns on the carcass from time to time before we skin/gut it out). I've also had people claim .30WCF is too weak for hunting deer (even though it is a popular moose cartridge), and that they/a friend once had to shoot a deer 5 or more times to kill it lol. good to hear about hemp being good charcoal, I've been using dried yard clippings, and that works well too.
I've experimented with different amounts of black powder without any filler or wads to take up space in 38 special before. I went all the way from having just enough powder for the bullet to leave the barrel to a full load and I noticed nothing strange that would indicate anything dangerous. With very light loads the shot sounded more like "floop" than a bang.
I’m very new to reloading and everything that goes into it. My question is, what would happen if you did the cream-o-wheat filler with the light load of (insert smokeless powder here)? Maybe a more consistent burn?
I’m not sure, I’ve never tried that. If I was to experiment with that I would change to a slower burning powder like Unique that handles compression better than bullseye.
It will give you a more consistent burn, because the powder is always in the same place in the case. While it's not considered to be necessary, whether or not it's beneficial depends. If the powder takes up most of the case, even if it's not up against the base of the bullet, it's not going to make much, if any, difference. If the charge of powder you're using leaves a lot of air space in the case, it can help. Mostly, I see it recommended for reduced loads in rifles where a pistol powder is used instead of a rifle powder (such as using Trail Boss in a .308 Winchester). Some people also swear by it for smokeless loads in revolver cases, including .38 Special, when using either a reduced (below minimum recommended) charge or when using recommended charge weights of particularly fast powders that don't take up much room in the case. With the latter, the goal is not to create a compressed charge, but rather, just to take up the air space in the case. I've never messed with it myself. I've always preferred to just choose a powder that takes up most of the air space after the bullet is seated.
Hey, very new guy! Just stick to the manual. When you are making fireworks it's no big deal. A gun is a hand held pipe bomb with a soft end. People who experiment usually end up crippled. They always lie and blame it on something else. There are thousands of loads that will work. Practice your technique and precisely follow the load data. To answer your question. Smokeless powder runs away very high pressure. Black powder burns consistently. If you use a pistol load that was worked up with the extra case volume, then use the same load without that space you will get a severe pressure spike. Probably catastrophic. Even something simple like seating depth reduces the volume and boom.
@@Michael-rg7mx you are 100% correct. Unless you have a complete ballistics lab with among other things a pressure gun to record "experiments" leave load development to the pros and USE THE BOOK!.
What is the chances if these jumping crimp? There is very little holding that ball. I loaded similar, but with full capacity of black powder, however, only fired one at a time. Would not be fun if one or more jumped crimp in the gun. They were nice and accurate. Maybe I'll try some dummy rounds with a live and see if they loosen up:)
Re watching this now for about the umpteenth time, I wonder what 15 grains of fffg black powder would push a .395 rb out of a smooth bore .410 shotgun. Hmmm, might have to do up a few to see!
@@Everythingblackpowder loaded some up, 15 grain Scheutzen fffg, nitro card, cornmeal, .395 ball, half a nitro card to hold in place. Will have to take the chrony out to see how they do! Might drop medium sized game close range! Keep up the good work brother!
This might be a dumb question but couldn’t you just push the ball all the way down into the cartridge? I’m guessing it’s not done because it wouldn’t crimp right? Would a crimp even be needed with a tight fitting ball and such light recoil?
Many years ago I was playing around using Red Dot. Don't remember the charge but they were lite. 400 or less with a round ball. I was looking for a 25 yard rabbit and squirrel load. The loads were a little light. Decided to see how deep they would penat 10:22 rate in a willow tree. I walked up to 5 feet and shot the tree. I received a sharp pain in my chest. I put my hand over pain then looked at my hand. I had the round ball in my hand. That was the last time I shot a willow tree. Good video. Keep them coming.
I have used the Unique load from that manual. Absolutly comical to shoot in a 16" Win94, on a sunny day you can watch the ball float thru the air.
As a point of interest, your loads are producing muzzle energies of:
184.2 fpe (15 grains black powder, 141 gr. round ball) (about .380 ACP levels)
366.9 fpe (25 grains black powder, 200 gr. LFP) (typical 9mm levels)
46.4 fpe (3.2 grains Bullseye, 141 gr. round ball, 4 5/8" Bisley) (about .25 caliber PCP airgun levels)
50.3 fpe (3.2 grains Bullseye, 141 gr. round ball, 7.5" Dragoon) (slightly above .25 caliber PCP airgun levels)
those gallery loads would be rather nice teaching youngsters the basics
Another winning video! Thanks! I spent a few years up in Northern Ontario, and one of my favorite "plinking" loads was a primer only, with a hard beeswax bullet. I kept my 7.5" Colt SAA by my side at the reloading bench in the basement filled with these, and when a target of opportunity presented itself, it was sufficient to dispatch the invader without destroying any property. We had *BIG* spiders up there!!! And lots of them. My other load, which I still use, is 8 grains of Unique (AKA flammable dirt) behind a 200 grain SWC. I'm working on perfecting my homemade Black, following your suggestions, because "store bought" is priced ridiculously up here in Kanada! Best wishes to you!!
Glad to hear it.
i am in SC, i will use grits,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:))
Grits are for eating, cream of wheat is for filler.
A friend of mine has had pretty interesting results using plastic bullets and four to five sheets of magicians flash paper just enough power to get out of the barrel and produce reasonable accuracy and he has a little indoor range he’s set up in his basement.
No kidding?
@@Everythingblackpowder also Bloke on the range did a video a few years ago I think doing something similar with rifle cartridges. If memory serves one of the cartridges they demonstrated doing this with was taking a 12 gauge 00 buck pellet and putting it on top of an 8mm Lebel case, they had put I think two or three sheets of flash paper and primed the case as normal.
I used to do that except I'd make bullets out of hot glue. The only propulsion needed was the primer. The bullets had to be lubricated otherwise hot glue would build up in the barrel.
Another very informative video. The only problem is now I want to buy a 45 colt. Dang it! Thanks
Trail boss powder is pretty good stuff for gallery loads. It is really flakey big granules so it fills up cases nicely. You can use it for reduced power loads and subsonic loads in just about everything. It makes for some interesting experiments as well.
I love trail boss and use it all the time. I’m about to test some 5.5gr, 300gr lfp loads
I've been using Trail Boss in my .30-06 to make a light load and also in my .38 Special Snubby pocket pistol for a round I can shoot here on my farm if I need to without having to grab ear protection.
Discontinued!
It's all gone though
I loaded some mousefart 45 Colt loads with titegroup for my sillouette shoot today and the older guys were suggesting trail boss. Too bad I've never seen it for sale at the local shops. Probably is discontinued now
My .44 mag gallery load is 3.5 bullseye, 260 ww cast swc, no filler. My .357 gallery load is .38 special case, 1.7 bullseye, 160 ww cast, no filler. Both have zero recoil. Both loads smoke up the case. Zero leading. In fact they thoroughly clear leading from the barrel from my normal mid loads and leave it shiny bright. By the way I bought that Speer manual new in 1980. Edit to add, they punch about 1-1.5" into the end grain of firewood.
I load gallery loads in 45 Colt and 44 Magnum using round balls and Clays. Like shooting rimfires and stupidly accurate. The 44 load from a Super Redhawk with a scope plopped out about a 1/4" group (hard to measure one ragged hole) at 25 yards from the bench! Titegroup has a very similar burning rate to Bullseye, but is not very position sensitive, so would be a good choice in that application.
I love round ball loads in my 1860 army conversion. I use 2 power settings. Just under 900 fps and one load thats a little over 1000 fps.
The light loads looked pretty fun!!!
Thanks for not saying “LONG” Colt! You have credibility
❤❤❤ its so frustrating when I hear that out of an experienced person's mouth. Total misnomer. Ive even seen it printed on ammo boxes a couple times😬
❤❤❤Amen!!!
Hmm, so I guess that .38 LONG Colt is wrong as well, right?
It was the ordinance office that used the "Long" designation to prevent the Colt cartridges from being sent to units with the Schofield Revolvers, since they would be useless.
There are commercial loadings from the 1880s marked .45 LONG Colt.
It's not something Hollyweird came up with.
So what caliber is a colt 45? Colt made multiple 45 caliber cartridges and they don't want any confusion so saying 45 long colt removes any confusion, just like 41 long colt and 38 long colt, or 22 long rifle.
My gallery load for my 45-70 is a cast 45 colt bullet that I powder coat and trail-boss. Very fun, and everyone is surprised. Oh I thought the 45-70 had a lot of recoil. Oh it can but these are mouse fart loads.
For those that don't know as long as the bullet clears the barrel you can load as light as you want (and in semi-autos of course you need reliable operation of the mechanism which includes slide movement, lockup, loading, extraction, and ejection), but with black powder if you load down you can't allow any airspace or you have a safety problem as an air bubble forms during ignition in any excess airspace creating excess stress on the cartridge and firearm, so you have to use a filler as he did. Grits, cornmeal, cream of wheat, or filler wads of wool or disks made of cereal box type cardboard or card-stock paper if the distance is small will all work although I feel cardboard presents more of a safety issue because in theory in a revolver it could wedge between the bullet and the forcing cone or barrel wall causing a catastrophic failure of the firearm, even though I've never heard of that happening. Even with smokeless powder a filler is good if you are reducing your loads by more than a maybe two full grains below what a reloading manual lists as the minimum regular load. It's an easy thing to correct in a straight walled pistol cartridge, but not easy to correct in a necked one like the .223. Either way the lesser powder will settle horizontally and you'll get uneven ignition and erratic pressures and velocities. Medium loads and upper medium loads are not only designed for safety, but also for optimal case capacity fill to ensure even ignition which results in better accuracy.
This is such an excellent channel. Im newish to the c&b gun thing and theres so much good info here. Between you and guns of the west, I have almost everything I could ask for in terms of questions being answered. Yall even answer questions I didnt know I had sometimes. Cant tell you the value of these videos to someone like myself
Glad to hear it. Thank you
Very good video brother! Very informative and good to know all of this for ppl like us just getting started... 💯💥🤠
Good info Jake! I'll be loading some of these for testing soon, got the brass on the bench right now. I have that Speer Manual as well. Thanks, Mike.
Thanks for showing us this. You have too much fun.🙃This takes me back to when I was a kid I got to shoot in the shooting gallery in Frontierland at Disneyland. Dad said they used Model 62 Winchesters. Sure beats using BB guns.
I'm not gay but I charge 38spec or 357mag with black powder 3F ;)
Nice BP loads for cowboy action shooting.👍🏻
Definitely
I think I saw some round ball loads in an old Lyman Black Powder Handbook but they were for smokeless, maybe/ maybe not I tried some like 25 years ago fun! In the grits cream of wheat discussion, I will use corn meal because that's what is in the cabinet. 😆
Now that was a lot of fun. God Bless and stay safe.
I just got into Cowboy Action shooting with my pair of Pietta single action revolvers. I am definitely going to load some of these gallery loads. Also the round ball is an interesting idea.
I've been saving baked coffee grounds for inclusion in casting sand, but have been thinking of using the coarse (sieved) grounds for .375Mag BP dead space reloads.. should smell better..
Great video. Thanks for making it. I just got my molds in from Accurate and will be casting up come bullets in the next week.
Excellent
I have shot galleri loads our of a Pedersoli Rem. 44.
1 22 lr case full of Swiss 4f Pan powder topped of with fine ground coffe, 454 balls lard on top.
Shot one ragged hole at 25 meters over a sandbag.
I think that 22 lr scoop of powder was 7 grains
It was fun, just a little pop an one could see the rb in the air on its way.
Wasn't my idea, saw it on the Hungarian fella, "Capandball" on yt years ago.. here in Norway Swiss bp Costa 150 us money pr kilo an i have to drive a whole Day to buy it.
Btw I enjoy Your vids very much.
I would like to see a vid with accuracy testing the Brown bess over sandbags with tight fit patch.
I am settin up to do it myself, but I' an old guy , ball joints busted, main engine at 50 % so we'll see.
Regards, Stan 10:22
I really like unique and red dot. I use them in rifle gallery loads too. I believe it is referred to as "THE LOAD" on account of the wide variety of cartridges that it can serve with the same charge.
As far as card wads go, even below a filler. I had a guy bring in a rifle that had a stuck case. He was a competition black powder shooter with a 45-90 and always shot 65grains of Goex cartridge with a card was and filler. It only took once, but it ringed his chamber. He got away with it for years. This is my take on it, using a card over a light charge even with a filler works really well, until it doesn't. I stopped using card wads with light loads years ago, and just use filler now. Just my two cents. Nice video btw.
Interesting. More reason to not use them.
@@Everythingblackpowder
There's more to that story. Probably a void or more likely a powder mix up.
@@Michael-rg7mx it was black powder cartridge, it may be a void, but still never had a problem or even heard of one with compressed filler. I always keep the wad, if I use one, at the base of the bullet.
I've always suspected that could happen and even put it in my own comment as a possibility, but wrote that I've never actually seen it happen. Thanks for providing a case where it actually did.
@@jeremiahembs5343 no problem, it was in a beautiful Shiloh sharps too
I always wanted to know how to underload a cartridge safely. Thanks. I think 500 to 600 is ideal for plinking.
Happy to help
I have the older Speer manual that gives round ball data for a lot of cartridges, I never loaded any, not for any particular reason, just didn’t. I also never had a 45 colt. I always used a 44mag / 44spl and a lot of 357 & 38. As soon as I build that new bench I’m setting the reloading gear back up
I hope to be reloading 45LC this coming week. I think I will try some gallery loads with round balls in addition to my regular 255 grn. cast bullet loads. Thanks for this video.
Happy to help
I've seen published loads with Unique powder and that roundball listed as 6.5 grains and Red Dot as 4.3, which is more than the loads listed in that manual.
Me gusta muchísimo la pólvora negra. Muchas gracias por tus videos.
Another great video as always
Thank you
Last sentence is quite true. Less charge. Lighter projectile or medium one. Just test....
With blackpowder go ahead and experiment. Smokeless, don't vary from the published load data. The pressures are 2 different animals.
Those low pressure gallery loads can make your primers back out and jam up your gun it happen to me.
I haven’t experienced that.
I really like your "Cody's lab". Intro.
Thank you
This is good information. Also entertaining. Thanks.
Thank you
A bit old video, but i will comment anyway :)
A guy in my shooting club load his Remington 1858 cal 44 with 10 grains of FFF Swiss, it take like a minuite for the bullet to reach the target at 25 meters / 27 yards, but its accurate as hell!
Thanks for all your information 🇺🇸🇺🇸💪👍
Happy to help
You want the new shooters to have fun. A good start is
light accurate loads, so that they can hit the steel, will make them fans of shooting!
Something about that bullet hitting steel sound, that people like.
Great Video, Man!
Hawk
Thank you
@@Everythingblackpowder
You're Welcome!
Good stuff thanks.Lorenzo TX
those smokeless loads are great. it's funny that i use 3.2 grains of bullseye in my 38 special loads with a 158 grains swc.
Well done jake!
Ive used 777 in my Dutch Beaumont cartridges (11x52R) and it works ok. But i only did it because it was the propellant available at the time.
In .38Spl I load 2.6gr VV310, witha a 105gr Lee SWC that is seated flush with the case mouth. Very accurate and mild. I tried it with a more normal OAL,but it was a terrible load, with bad combustion.
Nice video, informative. Thanks
I would love to see a test to see what happens if the powder mixed with the filler. I bet it still goes off easily.
It sounds like a good use for sulfur free black powder.
That 15 grain load of Swiss 3f and the 144 grain round ball is an extremely light load in .45 colt. I use HSM .45 colt 200 grain light smokeless cowboy loads in my Uberti 1858 Remington style new model army revolver using my Howell fluted .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder in it and I’m getting a velocity of about 700 to 750 feet per second and over 200 foot pounds of energy. I always save my brass and I reckon a nice reload might could be a 30 grain load of Swiss 3f and a 200 grain lee mould conical but idk because I’ve never done reloads
I would highly recommend getting into reloading.
The smokeless was the “gallery” load. The black powder still had a respectable amount of oomph.
I agree!
Actually gallery guns were invented when blackpowder was the only propellent. The .22 short was the most popular. Most didn't use powder at all as they were all small caliber balls from 22 to 25 cal like the 6mm Flobert as an example and used only a percussion cap to propel the projectile. I'm not aware of any centerfire smokeless gallery guns. Never really researched them though. I do know replica's are still available in Europe. Most people that use centerfire for gallery use a wax bullet and primer...no powder of course.
Starline sometimes makes 45 Cowboy special brass that work best for gallery loads. They're shorter than Schofields.
I’ve seen them but I’ve never tried them.
Thank-you
Cool stuff
I know I'm late to the party but I also went down the rabbit hole of reduced loads. I used Red Dot for everything in let say .223 up to .308. If you don't know what you're doing it can be an explosive ordeal, but like you say if you find this dangerous or careless go sit on a unicorn horn and spin around for awhile. Black powder is great in that as long as you fill the space you can shoot it, but who has time to just do that. Down the rabbit hole and trying to not blow myself up like a Kentucky person we all know.
great job
Thank you
Very educational, great video. Do you have a video on cleaning your revolvers are would you mind making one?
Well I'm new been watching a few like the channel so far
RE Goofy smokeless loads:
I like those very light loads using a 160gn (cast with Lee mold) and about
5-6gn of 231, which I got a ton of when it was cheep.....
To keep the load from being "Goofy", I push the powder back against
the primer by using a snippet of Backer Rod of the correct diameter under
the boolit. Seems to be fairly non-goofy as to recoil and POI - don't have a
functioning chrono any more (sad story!)
I like a paraffin core-sample projectile over a primer, no powder.
Just to reinforce what another guy said-
Thank you for not saying “Long” colt
Let’s me know you actually know your shit ! ❤
What’s always amazing with BP is how tight the standard deviation is. Smokeless has nothing on BP in this category.
Maybe Red Dot for plinking and Titegroup for some more energetic smokeless loads. Of course fffg for the holy black.
i seen you say on another video about how you tumble your cast round ball to help remove the sprue... do you notice any diameter change when you tumble? i seen that ball and it reminded me... great loads ive had great results with american select in making lighter loads in my 1858 with a conversion cylinder
Question: Watching this video I had an idea. I'm not sure if it's smart or stupid, lol.
Can you use an overshot card on a smokeless load where there is a small amount of powder in a large case? Maybe seat it half way down? I can't see it increasing pressure... but that's for you to find out ;)
I use TG on my light loads because it's said not to be position sensitive. Although I read somewhere that the newer Unique is also not position sensitive. My ES (what you call MS) is low. But in your case I wonder if it would help/work?
i have been handloading since 1967, yes i am old but i started when i was 10 years old, so i do have some considerable experience. one day around 1994 loaded up some 148gr. HBWC 38 specials with 2.7gr. of bullseye. about 1000 of them. i was shooting my wife's brand-new lady smith. on about the 3rd cylinder full, the gun made a funny noise and i got sprayed with lead. the cylinder blew apart and the top strap was bent! i am a carful handloader. i knew i did not double charge. then i read peoples accounts of very light charges of bullseye blowing guns up! they call it detonation, and it is! ever since then i am very careful with bullseye! no real light charges for me! and i threw away the rest of the rounds, they are hard to pull in that configuration so beware,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Wow
I have heard about this with bullseye also, that is why I only use unique for light loads, as their are some other pistol powders that will detonate also. I am not as old as you, but I have been reloading since 1980, and now make or convert brass for obsolete cartridges.
I’m not sure if 2.7 gr of bullseye should be called a light load, at least in the gallery context. With a 148 grain wad cutter it is close if not equal to the typical Federal Match target loads. Certainly light compared to 4.5 grains of Unique using a 168 grain Elmer Keith bullet, or a 357 mag load. I believe the ones that are talked about possibly detonating would be more in the 1-2 grain region, or when using a very small amount of a slow burning powder in a rifle in the attempt to make a gallery load. I’ve read that is a real no-no. I too have been loading for more years than I care to relate, and have had some small loads of bullseye when measure was running low, or an incomplete powder dump and (so far) no issues. I have had more than one squib load where the bullet never cleared the barrel. If that happened to an inexperienced shooter, the next shot would do exactly as described. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 that's why I stayed away from it, besides I always had unique for cast rifle loads, just seemed like I didn't need it on my bench.
You went way under the minimum load. Tell everyone when it comes up. Do not vary from load data from a published resource.
awesome
15gr 3f then wad then fill the rest with non rising corn meal my gallery load in 45 colt
Very good video thanks
No problem
@@Everythingblackpowder I seem to learn more and more from all of you guys in the black powder community. The info. Is very much appreciated.
Happy to help
Nice video. Didn't suck.
25 grains under 200 gr boolit was the military recipe for 45 Schofield if I recall correctly. As for the the smokeless loads, maybe old powders were different? 🤔
Cool man
Very interesting
I have been doing that for years I believe I used I believe 4.5 grn of W231 powder with 451 round ball.because that is what I have on hand, have loaded the round balls in 45ACP also,,as always this is not to be used informational only
My biggest per peeve is the spilling of the powder when they load it into the measure and just letting it fall on the ground.
FINALLY SOMEONE CAUGHT IT!😁
But even with the smokeless loads, I'd still want to top it off with a card and cream of wheat to help keep the powder up against the primer.
Cool
I use my homemade BP in 410 for a powderpuff load. 👍💥💥
Don't see the need for filler. I load a gallery load for my 45-70 trapdoor with a alox lubed round ball pushed down onto the powder in a 45-70 case, just like loading a short barreled BP pistol. Load the 45 colt case same way for the 45 colt adapter for my Martini Henry. Want to shoot your wheel gun in the garage, just use primer, (no powder!) and push the mouth of the case into about 1/4 inch of white sealing wax to make a wax bullet. Put your target on a cardboard box. It's a kick in the pants. ( Don't try this at home. I'm what you call an un-professional)
Nice
What velocity with 5 grains of bullseye in the dragoon??
Hey Jake....for a smokelesss load do you still need to add the Cream of Wheat?
No, but I have heard of people using cotton
Question! So why do you need to eliminate the air space in the BP loads, in a different video you were talking about how the air gap being dangerous was way over stated, what's different here? Looks like a fun load.
Excess space causes air bubble when firing black powder that can rupture cartridge or firearm and makes for uneven powder distribution in the cartridge as the powder settles horizontally when the case is in the firearm so it doesn't burn even. And generally black powder burns much better and more evenly when compressed anyway so it's always best to use a filler if firing reduced loads using black powder cartridges. In muzzle loaders you don't have to worry about it of course because the bullet will be seated against the powder anyway.
how about shooting a gallery load in a lever action rifle...something to think about.
Hello again. If i use the tripple 7 with grits would there be grits flying on the indoor range.
It’s a definite possibility
Now that's kinda funny stuff. Now I would slightly argue that a full house 30-40 hr load under a round ball 8n itself could be considered a gallery load. Just based on the lightness of the ball doesn't produce a lot of recoil. Now coudo's for making sure to covering air space/ pockets. Now I know its hard for even for myself to grasp that i have been into this black powder thing since 1972, and the addition of years that involves. However I never stop experimenting. For an example I going to attempt a 50-60 grain load in my 1866 Remington carbine. First with my 165 gr then my 190 gr bullets. Any guesses how I accomplish that?
I just tested some 45 Colt, 35gr 3f with a round ball loads and it clocked right at 1000fps.
@@Everythingblackpowder leverguns50 tested my largest bullet at 271 grs out of a Walker I think at 998 fps. I think I can do better. Have found some solutions for my vision issues.
Tons of fun. I do those for my .45-70 single shot also, for killin ground hogs etc. ;)
Try deep seating your round balls. Tiny amounts of powder will give you an accurate and very quiet load. I'm not posting my recipe because I've done a lot of study and research into this, but the information is out there if you want it.
If you're interested, do a search for deep seating round balls. There's a great thread on the High Road that should come up. Pay attention to the posts from Clark. He gets it.
I'm casting my own round balls and I use 45 Schofield brass to build mine. Reducing case volume gets the pressure up with less powder and less noise. You can easily hit 600-700 fps with less than a grain of fast powders.
I have an old iver Johnson 32 s&w and I know it already shoots light but I wanted to try a round ball load in it.....just for fun
What was your overall length for the round ball cartridge?🤔
Shorter than 1.6 😉
Hello again, did you use the filler with the bullseye powder too? Thanks
No. I’ve never tried filler with smokeless loads but I’ve talked to folks that say it works fine.
Thanks, I am new to this and like the cowboy loads. If it is not needed for smokeless, that's good. Is it because of the burn time for the different loads
What happens if there’s air space between the projectile and powder? Also curious if you have ever tried hemp charcoal? I’ve tried many different types of charcoal this seems to be the fastest for me.
Air space creates a risk of detonation as opposed to a controlled burn rate. Detonations can blow a pistol apart.
If the bullet is tight against a black powder charge it will start moving as it burns. If there is a big air space the black powder will be burning all through the charge as the air compresses. When the bullet starts moving the pressure spikes. People say things like explodes or detonates incorrectly. But the result is a bulge or ring at the thinnest point. This is mainly in a shotgun or rifle. In a revolver the plunger only goes so far. If the ball isn't seated accuracy suffers. In a cartridge it has a huge affect on accuracy. The grain can settle into the powder while driving around. That's why a card is used to separate them.
All of this only applies to black powder!!!
nothing... nothing bad happens lol. Gun powder (black powder) burns incredibly fast, regardless of if there's air or not (as a combustion reaction, it does burn slightly faster when under pressure, but not to extent that progressive propellants like smokeless powders do). The only thing that happens with increased dead-air space in the case is a reduction in pressure (since it takes gas to pressurize the dead space) (same phenomena occurs with smokeless powder (20gr of Red Dot in a .45-70 case w/ 500gr bullet vs same loading in a .460SW case) in cartridges and in airguns with excessively long bolt-probes) . If you go ridiculously light (like 5gr in a .45 colt case with a 250gr bullet), you could possibly get a stuck bullet, but even that's not likely in a pistol length barrel. Because the flame spread in Black powder is so rapid (the reason it's still used in modern artillery propellant charges), it's not terribly position sensitive, so as long as the cartridge/load OAL is consistent, the load is consistent (an issue in Muzzle loading guns, since the projectile can move around, that's the reason people back in the day defaulted to placing the projectile against the powder, not for safety reasons (that being said, expect the projectile to move around while you're out and about with the gun, it just happens)).
A lot of nonsense exists in the shooting world, especially in modern black powder shooting. It takes a strong-willed person with critical thinking skills and a desire to dive into research to not fall victim to it (because the nonsense is regurgitated ad nauseum on forums, and has an almost cult-like group of true believers, to the point where they make up stories that defy science and logic to substantiate the nonsense and viciously attack those who dissent). Example: not long ago, I had a discussion with someone on a BP related forum that swore up and down that a 60gr charge wasn't enough for hunting anything bigger than rabbit, and he went as far as to claim that he shot an Elk at 40 yards with a rifle musket, loaded with 60gr of powder and a 500 something grain minie-style bullet, and it didn't make it past one lung with a "perfect broadside shot".... meanwhile, I've had that loading go through market steers (we butcher our own beef, I test guns on the carcass from time to time before we skin/gut it out). I've also had people claim .30WCF is too weak for hunting deer (even though it is a popular moose cartridge), and that they/a friend once had to shoot a deer 5 or more times to kill it lol.
good to hear about hemp being good charcoal, I've been using dried yard clippings, and that works well too.
I've experimented with different amounts of black powder without any filler or wads to take up space in 38 special before. I went all the way from having just enough powder for the bullet to leave the barrel to a full load and I noticed nothing strange that would indicate anything dangerous. With very light loads the shot sounded more like "floop" than a bang.
How do you feel about light gallery loads in a brass frame revolver? Thanks
As long as they are pretty light
I’m very new to reloading and everything that goes into it.
My question is, what would happen if you did the cream-o-wheat filler with the light load of (insert smokeless powder here)? Maybe a more consistent burn?
I’m not sure, I’ve never tried that. If I was to experiment with that I would change to a slower burning powder like Unique that handles compression better than bullseye.
It will give you a more consistent burn, because the powder is always in the same place in the case. While it's not considered to be necessary, whether or not it's beneficial depends. If the powder takes up most of the case, even if it's not up against the base of the bullet, it's not going to make much, if any, difference. If the charge of powder you're using leaves a lot of air space in the case, it can help.
Mostly, I see it recommended for reduced loads in rifles where a pistol powder is used instead of a rifle powder (such as using Trail Boss in a .308 Winchester).
Some people also swear by it for smokeless loads in revolver cases, including .38 Special, when using either a reduced (below minimum recommended) charge or when using recommended charge weights of particularly fast powders that don't take up much room in the case. With the latter, the goal is not to create a compressed charge, but rather, just to take up the air space in the case.
I've never messed with it myself. I've always preferred to just choose a powder that takes up most of the air space after the bullet is seated.
Hey, very new guy! Just stick to the manual. When you are making fireworks it's no big deal. A gun is a hand held pipe bomb with a soft end. People who experiment usually end up crippled. They always lie and blame it on something else. There are thousands of loads that will work. Practice your technique and precisely follow the load data.
To answer your question. Smokeless powder runs away very high pressure. Black powder burns consistently. If you use a pistol load that was worked up with the extra case volume, then use the same load without that space you will get a severe pressure spike. Probably catastrophic. Even something simple like seating depth reduces the volume and boom.
@@Michael-rg7mx you are 100% correct. Unless you have a complete ballistics lab with among other things a pressure gun to record "experiments" leave load development to the pros and USE THE BOOK!.
yo.....
is that a Dragoon with a loading gate???? :O
Yep
Hello again. Going forward I found some .454 round ball which says 44 cal hornady and some accurant no.5. Have you found data on the no.5 propellant?
Sorry. I’ve never used Accurate #5
What is the chances if these jumping crimp? There is very little holding that ball. I loaded similar, but with full capacity of black powder, however, only fired one at a time. Would not be fun if one or more jumped crimp in the gun. They were nice and accurate. Maybe I'll try some dummy rounds with a live and see if they loosen up:)
I’ve never had it happen.
Re watching this now for about the umpteenth time, I wonder what 15 grains of fffg black powder would push a .395 rb out of a smooth bore .410 shotgun. Hmmm, might have to do up a few to see!
I’m sure it would work
@@Everythingblackpowder loaded some up, 15 grain Scheutzen fffg, nitro card, cornmeal, .395 ball, half a nitro card to hold in place. Will have to take the chrony out to see how they do! Might drop medium sized game close range! Keep up the good work brother!
This might be a dumb question but couldn’t you just push the ball all the way down into the cartridge? I’m guessing it’s not done because it wouldn’t crimp right? Would a crimp even be needed with a tight fitting ball and such light recoil?
Maybe with a .451 or .452 ball