Can you use track semi slicks tyres on a normal car? Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 vs Pilot Sport 4 S
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- čas přidán 17. 02. 2018
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Can you run track day semi slick tyres in winter without dying? I decided to find out and see how the track focused Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 stacks up against the ultra high performance road Michelin Pilot Sport 4S.
Both tyres are regarded as the current best in category, and with the temperatures across winter around 0c / 32f in the UK will the Cup 2 tires cope with the freezing conditions?!
Any questions please feel free to ask :)
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Further information on the tyres talked about in this video can be found on the following links:
www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Miche...
www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Miche...
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Has anyone else run track day semi slick tyres through winter? How have you found them? How have your normal tyres performed this winter? Obviously both sets of tyres in this video will be useless in the snow, luckily I didn't have to use my car for the few days it snowed in London!
Hi perfect timing.
I was thinking about that question. And I wanted to try out Michelin tyres anyway.
However for my car there is no PS4S available but a Cup 2 in 17 inch. I don't plan to buy new bigger rims.
What do you think of putting the Cup 2 in the front and the PS4 in the back for the summer in a Focus ST?
In the winter I have never left summer tyres on (unusual to do so here in Germany).
I definitely would not want to run a Cup 2 / PS4 mix. The tyres are different enough dynamically to give each end of the car a different feel, and you'd definitely be inducing roll oversteer, especially when warm.
Track day tyres are one of those things where you need to go all 4.
Naah, we get snow here in southern Germany (Swabian Jura), so I'm on winter tyres every winter, everything else would be suicide (and actually against the law here-when it's icy or snowy, we HAVE to have winter or AS tyres on).
It's a very sensible law, I wish the UK would follow suit
I went from having PS4 (non S) to Cup 2's on the rear of my Mondeo ST and my god the dry grip is phenomenal in the cold!
Grip is a little worse to start with but get just a little heat (and it doesn't take much at all to make a vast difference) in them and the rear end is truly anchored.
They have been pretty good in damp conditions and perfectly fine in the wet (both 10+°C), but did start to struggle with damp conditions below 5 degrees when pushing on. With normal driving in those conditions they have been perfectly fine on my car so far. (I'm curious how front traction will cope in these conditions on Cup 2's and I shall hopefully find out soon)
I'll be replacing my front PS4's for Cup 2's in a few weeks, I can't wait!
P.S. from one tyre geek to another, these videos are awesome and 0:08 is literally me!
Thanks for doing this! I'm running PS4S on my e92 M3 and on an occasional track day here and there. I was really impressed by its performance on track in the wet.
They're currently one of the best UHP summer tyres available
I have Pilot sport Cup 2s on my S2000 that I drive almost daily. On autumn if it's under +4c and wet they are like driving poor winter tyres on icy road. On dry but cold it's about first 4 kilometers where they are pretty slippery but no problems if you are driving like regular people do (not me like I do :D) But when they are cold they don't seem to wear much so you can do couple big slides every cold morning and don't have lot tyre wear like you would have on hot day :D
Glad you're enjoying them :)
Only 28 Like?
I'm in Norcal and will have to get new rubber. Wondering about this in the 1 or 2 days of rain we get here.
@@JesusprayerwarriorbwIm in Norcal, is the car your daily if so buy the ps4s and if its a weekend toy get the cup 2.
holy shit what's up with the downvotes?
They all from a Russian IP location over the course of about 2 minutes, with no views on the video in that time. Clearly a botnet but youtube had no interest in hearing about it :(
jesus that sucks, I'm sure it'll get cleared up soon. I found this video very useful and looking through the comments others did too so screw those rooskies!
Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words :)
Damn, sorry mate. Good content!
Thank you!
You make this complex tyre shopping decision entirely manageable. WELL Done as always.
Thank you!
I think it should be mentioned that as a tire wears, the difference might become more stark. The SC2 has less initial tread depth, and some of its sipes are quite shallow (not full depth). So after a few thousand miles or kilometers, those would not be present anymore providing less water evacuation and such. The PS4S has more strategic sipes that try to bolster wet traction as the tire wears.
This is a very important point, compounded by the fact as the tread wears its harder to get heat into the tyre. I wish I'd mentioned it in the video!
Yeah that's why i'd choose the PS4S for the Targa Tasmania tarmac rally which is notorious for swinging from dry/sunny conditions to cold and heavy rain stages
I ran Cup 2’s on my Megane 275 Trophy with the Ohlins dampers for one year, all conditions, every day, even had a day in snow. Obviously in snow they were a nightmare at one point on a hill but I still managed to get where I was going. In the wet I found them ok actually fairly good just have to be careful of standing water and feather the throttle rather than stamp on it. Any tyre is the same in the wet you have to drive accordingly. I found them brilliant. In the dry they are epic and just stick like sh*t. I didn’t find I had to warm them as much as people say they just worked well for me. I had super sports after this and found they lacked the feel of the cup 2’s so much that it felt like something had broken in the steering. The Megane steering is so sharp and precise so it was really apparent. On track they went off after three laps and were pony. I don’t think any ‘road’ tyre other than a cup 2 is viable for track work they just aren’t up to the abuse. The trade off with the Cup 2 is that it’s not as useable in wet or super cold weather. Just just have to drive according to the conditions. This is my own personal experience. On a proper front wheel drive car they’re excellent. Maybe on a beemer which is tail happy they would behave differently. Also I think bms are that way inclined anyway so would be similar on any but the best tyres. I think it’s fair to say the results of tyres will vary on different cars due to the characteristics of those cars.
one of the few channels that gives such knowledge about tyre and probably the best of those few
Thank you :) If you can recommend any other tyre related channels outside of tirerack I'd love to see them :)
Super video! I like your not 'standard' Tyre videos! Looking foward to the track test. Keep up the good work! Cheers
Thanks, appreciated
PSC2 is perfectly usable as a daily if you live in a warmer climate
Mate of mine was running PSC2 and swap to PS4S as it wears down, this video is absolutely spot on on everything
Thank you :)
Intelligent, objective information and data. Great for the enthusiast driver, I subscribe with enthusiasm. Thanks for the Glorious Revolutions from the UK!
I found this interesting, I run the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec on my Miata and the very first time I ran over a puddle in them on an otherwise dry road on a dry day, I nearly slid completely off the road at the next corner despite slowing down significantly! My first impression was "oh God, these tires will KILL me in the wet!" But then I took the car on a longer trip up the coast and ended up having to drive back in heavy, constant rain with temperatures in the 50s F, and it was really not an issue at all! I had no problem running safely with other traffic on the highway home. But you're right, I did have to think about the tires, think about the tire temps, and think about my available grip in the wet.
Glad you saved the car from a spin :) I imagine on a car like a Miata and tyres like the Dunlops (unless they're the softest compound) they'll take even longer to bring up to temperature!
What's with the dislikes?
Carlos Doña looks like it's been done by bots as it all happened in the last few minutes
Yep, no way that's a genuine number, someone's playing funny buggers.
I don't get why they need to do that with this very informative video 🤔 I learned a lot alright
Me either! Hopefully it's just a random botnet, and it doesn't seem to have hurt the videos performance anyway
I don't blame them :D
Absolutely fantastic reviews! The science of tyres well done and keep them coming. I live in Sydney and I am about commit to cup 2 tyres tomorrow for my M2 Comp it doesn’t really get below 10 degrees much here so...off I go
Awesome :) If you fancy leaving a review over at www.tyrereviews.com that would be great :)
This is a good an informative video, dont understand the downvotes... Looking forward to a laptime comparison with the 4S and Cup2
It's already done, check the latest video :)
Awesome video and very interesting!
Thanks Joe! I look forward to making some videos together soon!!
Its summer here in Australia and I drive a Megane 3 RS. Am putting Cup 2 rubber on the front axle, but keeping the PS4S on the rear (instead of PS4S all around) excited to see the steering taken to the next level and limitless dry grip.
Really like your videos!! Helped me chose Cup2s for my Golf R which is a daily that I will use on track a few times a year..
but I destroyed the fronts in about 6 laps at Bedford last week .. literally ripped/rolled the central blocks off the tire, and had to leave at 10 am.
Tyre pressures were 37 psi hot.. tyres were brought up to temperature on a few sighting laps.. pressure checked every 3 laps…. After two 3 lap stints the front right was ruined, and the front left almost as bad…
front alignment .02 degrees toe out..
Do you think it’s pressure or alignment?
Man your videos are so detailed. Awesome!
Thank you :)
How are these in the wet when it's warm out? I'm mostly looking to daily/track with these in the summer, and just want to make sure that I'm not going to have issues hydroplaning on the highway.
Your reviews are just great!!! I have a tuned Mini Cooper S with 240hp and when I floored the tires just spin even on second gear (traction control off) so I`m looking for some grippy tires, there is no PS4S on 17”, so I have to decide between PS4 or CUP2, where I live (Lima-Peru) there is pretty much no rain so my real worry is the premature ware and live of the tire in general considering that the road conditions are crap over here. So PS4 or CUP2??
Great review! We just bought a second GT 350 for my wife. It has the Cup 2 tires on it. I am taking those for my 2017 GT350 and we ordered her PS4S tires. I am not looking forward to the Cup 2s in wet weather but I am going to love them when it is dry. I am going to wear them out as quick as possible and I will go with PS4S tires after for my car. I have had the PS4S on all of our S550s and they are by far the best ultra high performance summer tire I have found.
Nice car :)
So... I'm finally in a position to respond to this video with something useful. earlier this year I fitted Cup2's to my Mini JCW. This was with the intention of doing a few track days here and there. In that regard, the cup 2's were excellent (my cars geometry ruining the outer edge aside). They were also generally excellent in warmer weather including some degree of wet (when driven with due care).
I drove 180 miles from Edinburgh to Elgin in early November in the pissing wet and it was OK, as long as a little care was taken and you didn't try to floor it anywhere.
But.... and its a big bit... even on the Elgin trip, if you tried to pull out of a junction quickly, or go for a big overtake, you could easily lose traction on the driven wheels. Not so bad once up to temp, but its hard to achieve much temperature driving on a cold 60mph A road.
It's the same with the daily commute. As you say, they're just not switched on at all for the first few miles and even after that, in cold conditions they just don't really allow you to make quick exits or pull away from roundabouts swiftly. I almost had the car switch ends on my once when I took a bend with a little too much enthusiasm, and the back just didn't have any heat, or grip at all.
Conclusions:
1) they're excellent road legal track tyres and in a little 215bhp mini JCW were giving me 1:03 times around knockhill. They were consistent and stayed on the boil for a great number of laps.
2) They're OK summer road tyres. Amazing in the dry and surprisingly MORE comfortable and QUIETER than the run flats that came off the car. In fact even in the wet, they were better than the run flat P zero's that came off the car from a grip standpoint.
3) Would I run them again as an all year round tyre.... No. They're just too irritating in the cold. You can't get away from junctions quickly enough and you're always watching how you drive so you don't end up in a spin. They're good for summer tyres if you're going to use a dedicated winter tyre from Late October onwards. But if you're only having a single set of wheels all year round.... stick to a more conventional tyre like a 4S
My issue was that in 17" size... the 4S isn't available and the 4 simply isn't focused enough.
Been running Yoko AD08R's for a year now (212bhp, 850KG, FWD) . Useless on damp single digit temperature roads, but fantastic in the dry! Patiently waiting for Spring to arrive so I can rock some Nankang AR1's
The AR1s are meant to be fairly good, I've been meaning to speak to Nankang about trying a set. Let me know how you get on!
Tyre Reviews
I was considering R888R's previously but apparently they go off pretty fast on track, with AR1's not too being far of DZ03G's. Will do!
Keep up the great content 👍🏼
I've been really looking forward to this after you hinted at it in your excellent PSS/PS4S comparo
It turned out to be a really difficult video to make interesting, I hope you didn't find it too boring! The exciting version of the video (on track with time differences) will be coming this year (at some point)
I know that I won't find the upcoming track version too exciting as we already know the results - the Cup2's will be 10%-ish faster in the dry and in the wet - and they will hold that advantage right up until their hydroplaning limit. While it would make for exciting video having you find that limit, I wouldn't recommend it! For this video, I liked it because it helps explain the advantages of running trackday tires on the street - although you didn't mention their huge disadvantage of destroying the car's paint with all the road debris that they throw up!
Shhh, don't tell everyone the result, I really want an excuse to spend a few days on track proving the difference ;) Any that's a good point! I killed a Go Pro filming some of the rear tyre B-Roll!
Good informative video man, hopefully you can do a track back to back soon including the pilot super sports, and continental sport contact 6 :)
Thanks :) Working on everything I can, but there's some good tests on www.tyrereviews.co.uk :)
Thanks for the interesting and informative video comparison. I have a 2019 370Z sport coupe 6M that has Bridgestone Potenza S007s, the OEM tire for this car. They're great tires and seem similar to the PSC2s, hence I'm thinking of going with the PSC2s when it comes time to change.
Awesome explenation using the whiteboard :)
we need more videos ! PS4 Vs PS4S Vs Cup2 Vs F1 Asymmetric
Working on it :)
Tyre Reviews PS4 vs PS4s/Cup2 would be nice, because us guys running 17" can't get PS4s. There aren't really any reviews on PS4 vs PS4s.
Potentially something will happen later this year :)
A friend runs PS4(not the S version) on a stage 1 MK5 GTI on the track, and they barely overheat at the end of a 20 minute session. The PS4S should be right on the money for the track. I miself run 350hp on a FWD A3 2.0TFSI, so would be interested to see how the PS4s/CUP2 are vs my PS4, as i can't get PS4s in the 17" version, but i can get CUP2.
Later this year :)
I appreciate the solid review. You made me a believer and they are going to be added to my Hyundai '15 Genesis Coupe R-Spec. Just got down an AutoX session and with my all season tires I was having issues with traction and body roll. Fortunately this doesn't have to be a daily driver for me and while I may drive it during the late spring, summer, and early fall, I won't be driving it during rainy days lol. This tire seems like a game changer and I'm really looking forward to a difference in handling!
I look forward to your feedback!
I found out exactly how good the 4 S is in cold, damp conditions the other day. I had a pair of 4 S' on the front and quite well worn RE050s on the rear of my Megane RS250. Went round a corner at a spirited (but not crazy) speed and slightly blended out of the throttle and the back end came around really unexpectedly and very nearly spat me off the road. It was only a combination of ESP and dumb luck that kept me on the black stuff.
Lesson learned and I've now ordered another pair of Michelins for the rear.
Dennis Kwok get Cup 2's all round; the Megane is a lovely handling car, you won't regret it!
The Michelin are very good, but equally the Bridgestones are very bad in the wet! You'll have a much better balance now :)
Yeah, the Bridgestones are awful in the wet and the cold makes them even worse - like blocks of wood! You just can't get any heat into them.
Kurt, my Megane is my all year round car. So for me and UK weather, the 4 S is a much better-suited tyre for my needs. If I were to run a track-focussed tyre, I'd go Yoko AD08R or even Nankang AR1's over the Cup 2's.
Dennis Kwok AR1's are supposed to be great but why would the AD08R's be your preference over the Cup 2's?
I drive my Toyota in rain and cold, how about the wear? Which one last longer? I never track my M3 but there are some twisty roads in the area
I need to get tires pretty soon for my E92 and this has just about made up my mind thanks. Probably going to get the Cup 2's. I don't use the car everyday and hardly at all in the winter months so the cup 2's seem to make more sense.
Be sure to let me know how you get on :)
Great video and your E92 looks awesome on the road!
Thanks man :)
Question is wich I can never seem to find anywere is a semi slick on dry road better than ps4????
This is a perfect video! Was jusssst looking for daily driving reviews on the cup2's. It doesn't rain much here; so noise was my biggest concern.
Thank you :) Noise is no problem, I don't even mind the comfort, and if you can avoid the rain definitely go for them :)
Mas921
I might be in your position i live in San Diego California USA ,I’m thinking to run Cup 2 year around,
My car came with Michelin Super Sports I drive a 2015 BMW M5 and it’s rear end happy. I understand the Cup 2 will shower the car and others behind you with road debris. ( rocks )
I drove a set of Cup 2s year round once and had no major issues. I do prefer the Pilot SS or 4s for year round, but the Cup 2s werent as bad as I thought they would be. I even took a road trip in January and ran into freezing temps and light snow and I was still able to maintain the speed limit. I was pretty surprised.
Another great video!
Great videos! I’d be interested to see you do something on the AD08R
It's on the list!
Had the pilot sport cup 2 in a Subaru Impreza spec c and even with awd I totally agree with you, unbelievable and constant predictable grip on dry track but lot of attention required when tyres where cold or/and is cold and especially wet
so would you recommend the sc2 as summer tires? whats your opinion in warm but wet, does the awd compensate? do/would you regret driving them as everyday tires?
2020, just got PS4s for my 435i thanks for being really informative man!
Sweet, let me know how you find them!
Tyre Reviews they’re pretty good, here in Canada the weather for the past week has usually sat at 5 degrees with no moisture on the road. Nothing but grip even in inappropriate temperatures. I was able to get them loose however when it did rain but it put a pretty big smile on my face. And the comfort is insane. My previous tire was a Yokohama advan sport. Compared to those it feels like my shocks and brakes have been upgraded. Will definitely stick to Michelin from now on!!
Just going through the back catalogue, excellent vid again! Personally I run trackday tyres all year round, but in Australia it doesn't really get below 5ºc. That being said you do tend to have some exciting moments in wet + cold when trying to push on, no bad thing in my opinion!
Lucky you with the weather :)
Great video, I'm installing the PS4S on my E92 335i 6MT.
Let me know how you find them :))
Very informative. Not over technical.
Thank you :)
Great review, I don't know why so many down votes. I loved the shout out to Engineering Explained 👍
Thank you :) There was a bit of a bot spam downvote storm but I'm glad you found the video useful :)
Great video, been waiting a while for this one 😀 The steering feel is the point that interest me most and one that may decide on whether to get a set or not. Being a Track day tyre do you feel that enough heat is generated in the fronts on the road to give more grip on spirited drives?
They're worth it for the steering feel alone, ignoring the extra grip.
You could definitely get enough heat in the fronts on a spirited drive to be useful assuming it's dry and the air temp it above 7c. The Cup 2's do switch on really quickly for a track tyre, I've been super impressed as it's getting warmer now.
A tip from someone with lots of experience, if you want steering feel without all the downsides of a track biased tyre, try dialling up your front AND rear toe to 'set' the tyres without scrubbing them to aggressively. Like this all the sidewalls are 'preset' and as you steer you don't need to pass through the sloppy bit first. Finding the right toe is the hard bit, there is no general recommendation as it differs between car and tyre size and model. I dare do it on feel and keep an eye on tyre wear... What also helps generally, is to fit a wider rim or a narrower tyre (widest rim allowable within the tyre manufacturer recommendations), this has a similar effect. Both can be combined also.
I have the 4S, they are great in the summer and very good in rain. Below 50 deg f they start to loose traction and not that good below 40 deg f.... But, you can stll drive normally with no problems unless it's wet..
What a great channel! Congrats!
Thank you :)
As I live in Southern California, I put Sport Cup 2's on my Porsche 911. I don't drive the car much (5,000km year on average) and I have no necessity to drive in the rain, it almost never gets below 10C, and I do not track the car. I love the performance of these tires so they are my full time tires for that car. They are a real joy to drive.
Quick question....i have a mk5 ed30 that ive always used PSS on (225/40/18)...and i have a mk7r with ps4 tyres (also 225/40/18).... now... i need to replace tyres on the mk7r.... shall i get PSS or PS4 instead....feels like PSS is the way as only the PS4S (which you cant get in my size) is a competitor to the PSS?????
As you I've used both tyres, you should be in a good position to decide. PSS for dry handling, PS4 for wet grip
Would the difference be reduced on a front wheel drive car? I don't have the option of the 4S (18" wheel) but do have the option of the cup 2 or the normal PS4. My car is a daily driver, I drive to work in it every day (about 10 miles each way) but would like to do some odd track days. is the cup 2 worth having overall in day to day use and an odd track day once in a while?
Difficult question if you can't get the PS4S in your size. The Cup 2 will always give you issues in the cold and wet, so it depends how much you're willing to put up with.
Hey,
Tks for that…you talks about less comfort for the cup2 but what about tramlining ?
Great review! Thank you. Which UHP tyres have closes characteristics to the semi-slick tyres in terms of dry grip and steering response? I have a Mini Cooper S. I want to change runlats with conventional tyres. But I don't want to lose go-kart like steering feeling. I'm looking for UHP tyres with really stiff sidewalls and sportive character. 205/45 17.
Tricky. The Michelin Pilot SuperSports are as close as you'll probably get without moving to something like the Cup 2
I have this one on my 335 this better the mickey thompson et street?
Wish I could've bought these for my 330Ci but because I maintain my stock 17s the best I could get were PS4,couldn't even get PS4 S because of the small size. Still I'm very happy,they perform great in all conditions,I once had AD08 on an e90 which were quite interesting in the wet lol
Which do you recommend for an AMG GTC, for a mostly hot climate most of the year with little rain (+30 - 40 c)? Would the 4s perform the same as the cup 2? Pls note my car came with cup 2. Thanks.
The 4S would feel a bit softer and have slightly less dry grip, but you'd get some comfort back, so it's down to your preference. They're compared on the channel a few times :)
The exit ‘slide’ at the roundabout is that with traction control off ? MDM ? Or DSC engaged ?? How would the cup 2’s perform on wet roads but summer temps ? Considering buying a set with cup 2 but only for summer (road) use.
Summer temps they're ok in the wet, but just ok. You'll still struggle with standing water.
I just bought a 2018 Ford Focus RS and it came with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires on it. I'm scared every time it rains and I plan to swap them for the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires.
how did you think about Yokohama AD08R?
RobsCarLife good question. Also how about the Hankook RS4s?
I have an M4 and bought a separate set of track wheels, they are oem wheels (437) which come with from factory 255 width on front and 275 with on rear. When I bought the track wheels they were fitted with cup 2 tyres which were 265 width on the front and 295 width on the rear. My question is will that affect performance on track? I have driven them on dry roads and tried to get a bit of heat in them but the car just feels disconnected. Almost like the side walls are flopping about maybe because there to wide? Would love to hear your verdict.
I'm not 100% sure, but if they're the correct with wheels those sizes are quite a common upgrade. I'm assuming the pressures are correct? The M4 can feel quite disconnected with the ePAS depending on what you're used to
Excellent comparison video! Thanks
Thank you :)
Im really trying to figure out how long can the cup 2 tires last and pass and the yearly state inspections. On my 12' ZR1 Corvette with no track use. I only drive it on nice days/6 months out of the year. Right now i probably only put 1000 miles on a year. And want the tire thats going to connect me most to the road, and give me that exciting experience. Any wear and tear videos out there? I imagine im only going to get 5000 miles out of them not driving like i stole it, then in that case it would probably be like 2000 miles. And with 1° of chamber i think the inside shoulder is going to wear extremely quick. Any thoughts?
I've not seen any recent wear tests and I've not had mine on long enough to judge myself, but I think your estimations are around right at 5-10k miles. For what it's worth, the cup 2s will likely have the best tread life of the semislicks
Very good video. Would be really good to see an all out track day tyre test. Mpsc2 vs Nankang AR1 vs R888r vs Dunlop dz03g vs Yoko AO52 vs Trofeo R vs Ado8r. Could be a tricky test to carry out.
Tricky but fun... hopefully it's coming next year!
What suspension are you running on this M3??
What’s everyone’s wear like on the cup2 for normal driving? I am trying to decide between the two tyres for my 18 civic type r. Not a daily driver, only a weekend/summer and track lapping days.
I've not done enough road miles to say, but check out www.tyrereviews.co.uk which should help
I’m considering one of these tyres for my e92 m3. I’m not going to be using my bmw much through the winter maybe once a month for the odd commute. So the cup 2 sounds more for my needs for them lovely sunny days. Or is it too serious of a track day tyre for road use?
You can use them on the road, just need to be careful of standing water. I'll probably be selling mine soon, drop me a message via the website if interested
I have a 991S with Cup 2's My wife doesn't like driving in the car because she says its to noisy. I got a rear puncture so now I need to replace the rears or buy PS4S. I do drive hard on windy roads. I was thinking of switching to the PS4S to reduce road noise and possibly take the 911 on road trips with my wife ( I would have to drive slower). If the PS4S aren't much quieter I don't think I want to give up any performance. I drive April to October in a semi desert region, very little rain and hot temp 10c to 100c. Is Road noise enough to make the change.
There is a difference, but it's not night and day!
Great video! I was surprised to hear that the 4S are immediately "switched on" even around 0C. I have the Goodyear Eagle F1 A3 on my tuned 360hp Seat Leon Cupra 280 and they have hardly any grip below 5C. They are almost as bad as you've shown with the Cup2s when still cold, though easier to manage thanks the FWD layout of the Cupra. In summer the grip in wet & dry conditions is very good of course, but I would be mindful driving even them year-round. Not every max performance summer tire is as versatile as the PS4S.
Perhaps immediately is a touch generous, but I'm confident with the 4S at 0c from cold when it's dry, where I need to think about the Cup 2's for the first few miles. It's worth keeping in mind my 4S are new, and while Michelin are one of the best at making the tyre perform throughout the tread life, as tyres wear they take longer to switch on.
Put Eagle F1 A3s on my Neuspeed Rse10s last month. 350hp mk7 gti. Its done nothing but rain, snow and be below 8 degrees c here in Scotland since. Absolute nightmare for grip!
I had this exact choice in mind last summer and I chose the PS4S. Grip under all conditions on the road is remarkable. On track (Bedford) I think they overheated slightly, but road performance over the winter has been outstanding.
I’m not sure I’d choose the Cup2 now I’ve seen your video. If I wanted to do lots of big skids, I’d buy cheaper tyres 😁
Cup 2's are outstanding at what they do, but they're not at their best in the heart of winter. Glad you're enjoying the PS4S, I've only tracked mine a little on a slow track and didn't experience any overheating, but I can imagine bedford would punish them a lot more.
I just got an M3 CS and it came with Cup 2 tires. They are tough in the NJ winters. I just got a set of Apex wheels with Michelin Pilot Alpins and there is a world of different in the cold. I feel like I have grip everywhere.
The CS is one of my fav cars from 2018 :)
An E92 M3 with a V8 engine sending +300 KW to the rear wheels is not exactly what I'd call a "normal car", but we give you that because the reviews are always outstanding! ;)
Have you tested toyo proxxes sport? Wondering how better ps4s or cup 2 vs these toyos. I have those toyos in my e92 m3, and those are unbelevable bad at track.
I've not tested them personally, but they don't seem great on tests. See the results here: www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Toyo/Proxes-Sport.htm
Absolutely love your videos 👌 how do you think these tyres compare to full on semi slicks with a treadwear rating of
It's something I plan to test next year :)
If I were racing a Porsche in the Targa Tasmania tarmac, rally which is renowned for swinging from sunny and dry conditions to cold and heavy rain stages, I'd choose the Pilot Sport 4S tyres to be on the safe side. I've seen some fast Porsches have offs on Pilot Sport Cup 2's in heavy rain
amazing video! Really useful!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
2017 Chevrolet Cruze LT with 1.4t, running Firestone Indy 500 in 205/55/16. Love at first turn.
Sadly we don't get that tyre in the UK :(
Tyre Reviews Tire Rack doesn’t deliver overseas? Got mine for $88 a piece. All together was under $400, mounting and balance.
Great review!Very helpful!Thx!)
Thanks!
In terms of steering response and feedback are they any better compared to Bridgestone s001 (which you have mentioned is better from pss)? I am very interested in this aspect, not in outright grip.
It's been a very long time since I've driven on an S001. I believe they've got softer since I've last used them, so my guess would be the Cup 2 would at least equal the S001 but likely be ahead in subjective handling, especially on track.
thank you very much for your quick response. I believe cup2 would be perfect for countries like Greece or South Italy.
Hi mate,
Great videos about those tires!
I have got a question for you:
I own a Porsche Boxster 987 2.9l. Last year I bought brand new Pirelli P Zeros (kinda regret that decision, PS4 would have been the better choise).
A few days ago, I bought those beautyful Spyder wheels, which are used, but in a very good shape. They came with 2014 Cup 2 tires, about 4 - 4,5mm profile left.
I do enjoy driving a lot, I only use the car at summer time, but to keep it ´healthy´ I drive it over the whole year latest every 3 weeks for 30 minutes. Those driveouts of course are more chilling, no Performance driving to enjoy G-forces (like on my summer tours).
Do you think I can use the Cup 2 for this season or do you recommend putting the pirellis onto the spyder wheels for to throw those 2014 Cup 2s away?
Best regards from Germany!
Don't throw the cups away, they're pretty much new at 4mm! I'd be happy to run them out over winter on dry days if you're taking it super easy and know what's under you. In the summer they'll feel great. Just be careful of standing water.
Tyre Reviews ok man, thanks!!
Hi, I have been told that some tyres that have steel belt internal construction (Michelin?) should not be used along with tyres of a different construction. I can't remember the exact details mentioned but does this sound like a genuine concern? Thanks
As long as you are replacing tyres in axle pairs it shouldn't be anything to worry about.
@@tyrereviews thanks for the reply, much appreciated
I'd run 4s on the road and spare set of wheels for cup 2. Seems a little bit of a waste on the road (imho).
Have you done a MPS4 vs MPS4S yet?
If I use the M3 more that's the setup I would run, but for now the 4S are staying in the garage. Not done the 4 vs 4S yet, it's on the list for this year!
I would like to ask how do you compare the prelli pzero nero gt to the old michelin pilot super sport 😃
I've not driven the Nero GT or seen it in that many tests, but my understanding was that the Pirelli was more a touring tyre and the Michelin a uhp tyre so they have different design goals
Love your E92 M3 - what is your suspension set-up, which rims are you running + size/offsets, and what tire sizes are you running?
92 M3 is why I clicked on it . Happen to have one too. :D I probably would pick his gray over my white but that's trivial.
They grey one is for sale! It's on eibach springs and cmwheels csl rep 19" alloys
@@tyrereviews Aww man, you sold it!? :'(
So I'm presently creating a wolf in sheep's clothing from a 508 RXH, and just did the filter switch (K&N), I've noticed a minor difference in performance in my previous cars and bikes but this is a whole other level, baring in mind the stock paper filter I removed was about 5 inches deep with a foam cake on the bottom and the K&N is an inch in depth but it is flying up through the gears, tomorrow comes the new set of Pilot Sport 4S 255/35/20 and new subtly different alloys, next the turbo and then rolling road. If the simple change of air filter is anything to go by this car has a lot to give ! Rolling weight is 1700kg O_o anyone else working on a W.I.S.C?
Nice , Keep Up The Great Work . . . Thanks
Thank you :)
How does cup2 perform with age?I have 09/15 set of tyres on my used cayman and I feel like there is not too much grip even when warm on the track.I had much more grip on a new set of PSS last year on my m2.Thx
Are you should you're getting them warm enough? Have they had a lot of track work in the past? 3 years old should be no problem!
Tyre Reviews yes,by warm I mean 70-100 C.Not sure about their history on track,probably not too much ...just bought the car,need to analyze this issue more,but pss felt really sticky with all the stones on the road glued to it when warm,on this old set of cup 2 this doesn’t happen...the tyres feel rigid and nice in corners,but the grip is not that good
If the tyre has been heat cycled a lot it might be that it's past it best, but without knowing the history of the tyre it's hard to tell! It should certainly be stickier than the PSS at those temperatures!
I live in Denver where it’s pretty much below freezing for about 7 months out of the year. Would the 4S be a bad idea for an all year tire? Would I just have to be careful or would it be bad for the longevity of the tire?
I've friends in Denver, and I've seen the snow you guys get. You know the 4S wouldn't work in snow at all right? Other than that, running around 0c isn't a huge issue other than reduced grip. With Denver weather I would want a dedicated winter tyre.
Tyre Reviews I figured, I’m getting a new set of 18x9” apex wheels soon and I’ll probably fit some 4S tires on those and turn my OEM wheels into winter wheels
Hi Tyre Review
I run PS4 on my Clio rs200 Cup which I’ve been hugely impressed with over winter and they even did pretty well at a track day last week.
I’m investing in some summer wheels and wanted to put cup 2s on as 4s doesn’t come in 17”
I was thinking of using cups from May till Sept basically when the temp is above 7degrees and then going back to the PS4 for winter.
Is 7+ warm enough even when the road is damp to get the cups up to speed? I realise standing water is always going to be an issue.
Love your enthusiasm - I’ve learned a huge amount - keep it up!
You'll get the tyres up to temp, but you'd have to be driving than is sensible on the road.
Tyre Reviews
Do you mean more than is sensible?
@@mattparting968 Correct, sorry
I have a GT3 991.2 which has Cup 2’s. I do a couple of track days but mostly road work. I’ve found the cup 2’ rubbish in the wet, seems to struggle get rid of lots of water, very sketchy. As you say. Porsche have now approved use of the pilot sport 4s. Would you recommend for a car like a gt3
If you want more wet performance, sure, they're really great considering
On the graph for grip, you are showing grip is still good at negative *C. Is that safe? Michelin seems to advise against driving below 5c
All sports tyres get harder at low temps. The PS4S is usable in the colder temps if it get some heat in, the Cup 2's are very hard to warm up
Hey mate, which would you suggest for hot climates like we have here in Australia? You barely notice winter come around, except perhaps in the mornings and evenings. Cheers mervyn
That depends what you want from the tyre. If speed and feel is your only priority fit the cup 2, if more comfort and all round performance is more for you then the 4s is an excellent choice
Also I forgot to mention, in certain humid climates in Australia, we do get a bit of rain over the summer months too.
Tyre Reviews thanks, great videos by the way, top quality and information!
Many thanks for the great informative video. Would be interesting to get peoples feedback on Cup 2’s on a fast front wheel drive hot hatch (instead of rwd). Am about to switch to 235/35/19 Cup 2 connects from some PS4S’s (I’ll keep them for uk winter driving). Hopefully the cup 2’s shall be great for fast road and long road trips into Europe/the alps during summer!
They will be :) (as long as it's not cold and wet!)
Great video! I have weekend sls amg for weekend fun, and you might know the rear end grip is terrible. The original continental just can not deliver the torque at all. I barely drive my sls in wet, and never go to track, just aggressive drive in town. My priority demand for the tires is dry grip which helps the 0-60 time. which tire shoud i choose,cup2 or ps4s? The TEMPS in my city is 0C-35c. Thank you!
You could lend me the car and I would do the research for you ;) If you're not going on track I would go for the PS4S as they'll offer more grip for more of the time on the road.
Amazing! you reply so quickly.That's very kind of you. i bought the sls in China.if you got a chance to visit HANGZHOU i definitely will let you test my car. I bought the car 7 years ago, the rear CONTI 5P never grip off the line. Due to SLS BS has lower torque, i believe SLS has lot of potential to reduce 0-60 time. Do you think i should change the width from 295 to 305? if it helps why did the manufacturer not doing so?
I'm actually testing 225 vs 255 vs 275 tyres at the start of June so hopefully there will be a new video on the channel letting is know if wider does mean faster :) Enjoy the car, I think whatever tyre you fit you will struggle as the engine is so powerful! The 5P tyres are actually very good!
Great! i am looking forward to your new videos. thanks!!
Getting a set of 215 45 17 cup2s for my nc mx5 on this week just in time for the snow 🤦
Excellent video, thank you
Alex Desbarres thank you, appreciated
Gotta do a budget "r compound" track tire comparison test ie: Achilles 123s and atr-k, Federal 595rs-rr and fz-201, Accelera 651, Nexen N'Fera SUR4G, Nankang NS-2R vs Toyo R-888-R, Falken RT615K+, Bridgestone RE-71R, Nitto NT01. There's not a lot of non subjective info on these cheaper tires with real testing to back up claims. Would be nice to know how they stack up against the well known tires that cost a pretty penny when you're saving a significant amount on the budget tires. could be worth the money saved if lap times aren't significantly slower...
I'm really pushing to do this ASAP 😊
I'm running 651 sports now
If you want to get Sport Cup 2 tires, get it, along an extra wheel set, as a second set that comes on/off for track days. These tires wear out very fast. If you have garage space, just change them before driving out to the track. Hopefully the roads won't be as slick!
Agreed
I live in Cocoa Beach, where we get summer thunderstorms but it I always warm/hot when it rains...in our "winter" it rarely gets below 45 F and when it does it is always dry as a bone. So my question is how is the cup 2 tire in the wet when it is warm out? I drive a modestly modified (headers, Europipe Stage 2 exhaust, intercoolers and a Cobb autosport tune) 997.1 TT and probably only drive it approx. 1,500 miles/year.
As long as you can get heat in the tyres and there's no standing water they're usable.
Thank you...pretty much like my superbikes I've owned with DOT Racing slicks...lol...in heavy rain I was tooling along my local interstate trying to get home and at 70 mph I'd twist the throttle and I'd have an instant flat tracker...haha.
Do you think running Michelin Pilot sport a/s 3+ at front and pilot sport 4S at rear will have negative impact on car performance?
BMW F82
Yeah, very different grip levels. You'll get understeer!
Tyre Reviews oh ok,in a drag race it shouldn’t really matter but regular driving it should (even though the car is RWD)
I would be interested in a review of the new Cup2 Connect 240 which comes on the M2CS. Since the original Cup2 had a 180 tread wear and the Connect 240 has a 240 tread wear, it would've nice to compare.
It's planned for April :)
Would you recommend them cup2's for an M4 driven in California where it only rains 10 days per year?
Hell yeah!