WinWing Orion 2 Upgrade Overview / Comparison
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Comparing and looking at the improvements of the upgraded Orion 2 modular throttle against the old Orion 1 design with my first impressions.
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Just commenting to let you know that this is another fantastic hardware review and that *somewhere* down the line this will be one of the sources of information used by me to inform my next HOTAS purchase. While it's genuinely fun to me to watch new hardware reviews these are also going to be genuinely extremely useful down the line too as the information provided is fantastic.
Thanks @RedKite, prefect review, just what I was looking for. Well worth the wait!
Hi RedKite. Thanks for your time and thoughtful reviews!
Great comparison, thanks for the video. As a user of the original Orion, there's no economical upgrade path as such, it seems. The new base and finger-lift options have to be purchased separately, for about $266, which is more than half the total price of buying the whole set again, including throttles, joystick base and joystick handle. And I wonder how easy it would be to sell just the old base without throttle handles after that? Well, I guess I'll pass and pretend I never saw the new Orion 2! I am quite happy with my v1 kit after all... :)
I don't see a serious reason to upgrade to the Orion 2 if you've got the 1, especially if you've got the Viper throttle installed on it!
@@RedKiteRender Thanks. My wife will be glad to hear that suggestion to stick with the 1! :D I have the F/A-18 throttles only for now, but would love to get a collective grip in future as hugely enjoy the helicopters in DCS.
Thank you for posting this video 🎉. You have a new subscriber. Keep up the great work 🎉.
My unit just shipped. Looking forward to trying it out myself. Upgrading from the TWCS.
on your 7:20 timestamp comment, I use some non-slip liner used in cabinets and kitchen drawers. seems to work well for me since I have to move the throttle off my desk frequently.
I think the question of whether there'll be an A-10 throttle is now resolved with the introduction of the F-15 throttle, since it's basically the same handle but with more functionality.
So, no A-10 throttle.
The "Orion2 HOTAS Metal Warthog" is now available for pre-ordering if you're still interested but yeah, their F15E or F15EX throttles are probably just better in every way (especially if you fly multiple different modules).
Mine will get here this week!
I just got mine a few days ago and love it! As your other commenter said both my two sliders also feel the same. The sliding action is also smoother in game than my Warthog which always had a jitter to it.
With the Viper side frame thing, I can only mount it to my Monstertech mounts using two out of the four screws unless I did something wrong? The new muscle memory and mappings are gonna take a while to get used to but it feels so nice.
Thanks for the second voice on the matter! I've never noticed it to be more precise than the warthog, but then mine doesn't have the jittery axis issues I've heard some do have.
@@RedKiteRender the Viper feels so nice but it’s so different from everything else, but I love how they thought to put extra hats and buttons to make it work with the other jets like the Hornet. Do you use the Hornet or Viper grips mostly?
I use the Viper grip more, but i physically swap out between the TM Warthog, WW Viper and WW Hornet frequently.
@@RedKiteRender Noice. I'm thinking of the Hornet grip to swap back and forth, hopefully it isn't too much of a pain. Looking forward to your review!
Thanks for the preview, I have seen some photos a few days ago of someone who opened their Orion and there were cables crushed under a screw. For the review could you make an internals comparison between the Orion 1 and Orion 2 and check if they have fixed this or if it was an isolated manufacture/QC issue on that particular unit?
Long as the crushed wire section is not undergoing repeated stress it's not an issue. Don't suppose you've got a link to that for me?
@@RedKiteRender This is the picture cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551040079338930188/967015476624502854/IMG_20220421_001056.jpg
Great review thank you
Its a giant pain in the ass to assemble. But It's heavenly once you get it running
1:32 missed oppurtunity for 'these nuts'
I just got my f16 throttle and assembly took some time as the parts I got are different than the online manual. After an hour of assemble I realized the suction cups will not work with the f16 version and I really need to be able to put it away when not in use, so I'll need to come up with another solution to keep it in place.
First. Lol us Mirage F1 fans are addicted.
Yeah sorry i can't quite bring you anything new on that front just yet, It'll come when it's ready :)
@@RedKiteRender Yeah no worries.
Okay, just received my Orion 2 throttle base and I noticed a couple things right away. First, I ordered a complete system, i.e. throttle base and FA-18 handles, and an Orion 2 stick base and F-16EX grip. For some reason they shipped all four components separately so I'm getting them one at a time. Not crazy about that after paying $80 for shipping. Why couldn't they put all four of them in one big box? Whatever.
Second thing I noticed when trying to mount my throttle base to my Hikig desk mounts is that the footprint of the throttle base is huge. It took some creativity to get the thing on there securely but it works. However, in doing so I found the first, and hopefully only thing I genuinely dislike about the Winwing system. The throttle base has these two flat box things on each end that are apparently for securing other mods to it like the F-16 throttle or maybe a collective. That's all well and good, except they are directly over both left side mounting holes which makes putting the correct size mounting bolt/screw through the hole pretty much impossible. Don't know what's up with that. I suppose I could come up from the bottom and put the nut on the top, but that is not my preferred method. Someone didn't think that one through.
Anyway, hopefully that will be my only complaint, and hopefully the rest of my system won't be too far behind the first piece.
I do have a question for anyone else that has had one of these for a while. I realize that having the switches and knobs with specific labels is helpful if the thing is only gonna be used for a few different fighter aircraft. But I would really prefer a system that wasn't labeled so aircraft specific. I use my system for a lot of different aircraft and spacecraft. I have at least a half dozen different space and flight sims that I play all the time. So while I was never really happy with my previous HOTAS (Logitech X56), I did prefer the generic labeling for this reason.
So what I was wondering is if anyone knows of a source for some aftermarket overlay panels to go on the throttle base that are more generic?
i want a set of these really bad but they are never in stock ughh
How do you map idle cut-off to the game for engine starting and shutdown if there are no throttle position buttons in the new throttle base ?
I believe they are software buttons.
Redkite, I have a question about the J2 throttle. I just received mine in the mail and I really like it so far. However I have a question regarding the Z-Axis (antenna elevation) wheel on the right throttle handle. It will only register a slight movement when switching from axis to button mode & back. Then it freezes in the max position.
I am new to DCS and new to this level of HOTAS controls. When setting up your O2 was this axis working right from go? Or did it take some tweaking to get it to work? I have updated the firmware with it connected directly to the motherboard & tried calibrating several times. I tried opening a ticket with winwing but had an issue. I will continue with opening a ticket but saw your video & figured you are knowledgeable about these controls. Thank you in advance. And I did subscribe as I enjoy your videos.
Thanks @RedKite! Any updates on the full review? Would like to see how changing the detent config is. How annoying is it to remove/add the afterburner detent? I often swap between modules and the warthog is easy enough by just lifting out the detent so it takes about 5 seconds.
Did you ever do a full review of this one?
I am wondering where to get those addional throttle panel ? Are these ready to order ?@ 3:50 min... ❤
My Orion 2 Throttle (with the F-18 throttle handle) just arrived today and I can confirm that it ships with the finger-lift detent, no need to buy it separately.
***Not sure if it's a bonus item because I pre-ordered two months ago though.
I believe all pre-orders were upgraded to include it. Think that was mentioned when the Orion 2 was announced.
@@RedKiteRender This would be really good. Mine are enroute as we speak. And watching you review, very nice by the way, I was wondering about the idle and afterburner detents being removed. And how this would effect engine shut downs or specifically accidental shut downs while in flight. I really hope is come with the finger lift detent like Boss Pitchayut received with his order. I am anxiously awaiting this product. Thanks for reviewing and pointing out the updates.
Great video. I am a real-life advanced piston FW pilot and also XP-12 FW, generally twin piston business King 90 etc. or Malibu. I would like to dabble with heli's and replace my yoke system with a Hotas-type stick with a separate power unit (similar to G56 (Pro). What I need however is something that can dual function work as a collector for a simple heli's. Which of the usuals are suitable for dual use or do I need to go to WinWing & Co?
Hey I just purchased and set up my Orion 2 f-16 and have it mounted to my Next Level Racing F-GT. I’m unable to install guide rail AND mount it to the chair. The guide rail covers the mounting screws when installed. If anyone know a work around please let me know!
Hey awesome video! Really well put together. Do you know if they will work with MSFS 2020?
Yeah should work just fine with MSFS or just about any game for that matter.
It works fine, but bear in mind there's a small 'trick' to binding some of the switches. This is because most are not on/off switches (like a button), but two-way switches which always transmit a state (e.g. up/down). When binding a switch you often have to flip it up to get MSFS to detect it, then flip it back to before you can click 'Validate' to save it. You'll soon get the hang of it, but at first it seems difficult to bind a simple command.
@@Mustang242Sqn awesome thank you for the heads-up! I will try to use FSUIPC
I know is been a long time Kite, but do you use the fingerlift? For me, the fingerlift creates a friction that I don't like
where did you get that other detent from? I wanted the finger lifts but I think 59 usd is a bit steep for a piece of plastic on top of that the shipping costs. Thanks.
My friction sliders are the same. The top one and bottom one have the same force required. Luckily for me I suppose.
Same here. My two sliders are the same tension (or close enough to not matter). So, sounds like it might be a slight manufacturer defect in Redkite's unfortunately.
Seems like the f16/a10 part is now more of a removable cap? Allowing future modules to be swapped in.
Great review, thank you! How would you rate the Orion 2 (with the Viper handle and the side mount for the afterburner detent) compared to the Cougar throttle?
is there any option to have an Idle position detent without having the finger lift kit?
I do have a small part with a screw in it spare, I wonder what that is for?
I was considering getting the 2 but i would miss the button press from cutoff to idle. That is not cool. They should make it an optional feature. Im disappointed.
How could you not notice the base in the new version is plastic instead of metal?
Because sometimes the client (WW) request a video be released quickly, and it goes unnoticed or forgotten due to time constraints.
I'd argue build quality is greater in the plastic version, as the metal was a little crudely made. Structurally in practical terms it's the same, no feeling of weakness. But yes, if you throw both down the stairs the metal will bend whilst plastic shatters. Doesn't personally detract from the quality, with exception to the base plate, which i wish was still metal for use when mounted.
@@RedKiteRender I have no plans to throw a HOTAS down the stairs, so durability is certainly not a problem. The solid metal feeling is so much better (immersion), and the extra weight helps making the base more stable for people who lack a dedicated surface to screw down the base (the suction cups are ok, but no magic).
Thanks for the review. I just received my throttle v2 base and f16 throttle handle. feels like a quality product. I did have one question. There is a status indicator light that keeps blinking. Not sure what this means. I went through calibration. Didnt do firmware updates, the base and handle are up to date. Any thoughts on how to clear it? was it something that you experienced as well?
You should do a review of ED's Aim-120 Product :)
Does the Orion 2 still have a button press for the throttles passing into the idle range? That was kind of nice to have for starting the hornet up.
Yep, they're still there, controlled by software and axis position
Great review. Do you think adding the finger lift assembly to the V1 would give a little bit more strain relief on those cables?
It won't have any effect on the wires, as the improvements come from the recessed wire trays on the v2
@@RedKiteRender good to know. Was hoping it might eliminate some of the wire squishing.
I just want to know where to find those realistic looking caps you have on the startup panel?
I 3d modelled and printed them myself. I've been thinking I'll release my .stl files for them some point on Patreon perhaps.
are the actually wires that plug into the throttle handles the same? my orion gen 1 recently pooped out and i’m getting the 2 but u don’t wanna buy anything i don’t need and would like to use my gen 1 throttle handles
They should be compatible, contact WW support if you're in doubt. there have been minor design revisions, but I don't think they'll present an issue.
What happened to your Orion 1?
I have one of these on the way, are you able to provide the mounting hole dimensions? I cannot find them anywhere but wish to get an idea of what kind of mount i need to build to accommodate its size. thanks in advance!
Find the mounting hole layout for a thrustmaster warthog throttle, they're the same. Otherwise i think the manual on WW's site has them listed.
@@RedKiteRender thank you! I didnt realize it was the same on the throttle, i just thought it was for the stick. Happy flying! o7
Are the detents system coming with the base or a customer having the Hornet grip already has to buy it again ?
You have to buy them separately.
Does that mean you don't have a button to put it to idle?
I use tarus throttle. But plan on getting the orion as a designated F16 kit, and I would hate if I'd have to find another button to move the thorttle to idle. I love starting up planes and just pushing forward the throttle to active idle.
It's got the button binds still, they're software controlled, not physical switches anymore.
@@RedKiteRender ah good to know. Love the immersion in VR putting your thorttle forward and seeing it uncaged. Will be even better with a proper F16 thorttle in my hand.
I have the original F-16 throttle on the Orion 1. I ordered the Orion 2 intending to move my F-16 grip to it. It seems to be incompatible. The throttle gate simply doesn't fit on new base design. Does anyone have any clue if there are other parts required (Orion 2 didn't come with any).
I plan do the same have you figured out or did you return it?
I have been in contact with Winwing about this. It is only recently they have posted incompatibility on their webstore.
But it wasn't before they sold the Orion 2. No mention whatsoever that they completely changed the design of the of the throttle guide and mount. I bought the first F-16 throttle release and first Orion 2 release. I'm aggravated with them about this to say the lease.
My contact with them seems to be to delay the complaint until I go away. I think they should rectify the issue since the advertised the Orion 2 was compatible with the F-16, F-18 and Black Shark grips. And it was under that false premise I ordered.
So long answer... if you have an original F-16 throttle it won't fit the Orion 2. Personally, I will likely not give them anymore business if they don't rectify this with me. And then I will send back over $450 worth of the equipment I just bought from them.
Another thing not mentioned about the new Orion vs the old. It is an entirely plastic enclosure vs the metal of the original. Somehow, they decided not to mention it.
@@GDViperWorks oh ok looking at pics and other videos I see ppl got it on
@@AceDotBoogie if the top of your throttle guide has a horizontal surface above the screws in the forward post, it would fit. If it is one continuous slope from the middle of the guide to the screws, it will not. If you have square mounting brackets it will not fit. If you have rectangular brackets than it will fit. Look closely at your parts and the photos. It is not immediately obvious. Winwing did not disclose this difference. Only after I brought this up with them does the webstore have notes on the bottom of the item's pages.
This confirms that they are going to sell the startup panel sperate, right?
Thanks for your video!!
I don't know when, but i would expect that they will sell it eventually stand alone, since the Orion 2 can fit it.
RedKite, i am sold on the quality and the number of buttons and switches with the WinWing throttle base, however I have one insurmountable problem with buying one. I do not fly the F-16 , A-10 or the F-18. I fly almost exclusively the REDFOR aircraft. The labeling of the switches and buttons to correspond with particular aircraft functions is a DEAL BREAKER. Why has no one at WINWING realized that not everyone wants the buttons labeled. Thrustmaster Warthog has the same problem. Virpil makes their throttle generic with a label kit included. I don't think I am the only one that feels this way. WinWing appears to be the heir to the Thrustmaster throne but they are missing out on a large swath of potential customers. You seem to have their ear, so maybe you could put in a good word for the rest of us. WinWing ......Make an Orion throttle option that is generic with lighted areas so the end user can label it as we choose and still get lighted markings. All it would take is changing the label plates. As far as know these plates are not end user changeable. If they are changeable, release a 3d printer template so that the community can make our own. Sorry for the venting....but you might be the one to help with this problem....
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Cool👍🏼
How long it take the preorder to get approved and how I pay it say PayPal but I don't put the info to get charge.
For me it took 2 month from pre-order to confirmation/pay e-mail recieved
What looks like $1 suction cups is completely out of place on a nice piece of kit. They really need to fix that. Same goes with the stick base. Cheapass suction cups, it really doesn't jive with how much it costs and the quality of the hotas. What a shame
Can the front and back PSU connectors be removed ?
I could not find an obvious way to remove them, I'm waiting WW's response on that one as the v2 doesn't have a pdf manual available yet.
@@RedKiteRender Thanks for taking the time to respond.
The slider thing is not a v1 vs V2 thing. My v1 has a loose slider and my v2 neither is loose
Hmm that's what i was fearing. I'll raise it with WW.
My V1 base had one slider that suddenly went loose one day.
Then after a couple of weeks of not touching that one, it stiffened up again. Go figure.
One thing you didn't mention, maybe you didn't know or are saving for main review, is their site states the V2 base will not work with F16 throttle shipped before Feb 28.
I ordered mine in Jan and they shipped then. So I might be able to use them for my Hornet throttle, they don't say, or a future grip, but my 4 month old F16 grip will only work with my current V1 base.
How long did it take to ship?
About a week to the UK.
So I suppose my biggest question would be, would you spend your own money on this?
if i have older then i not need newer. if i have any hotas i not need lol
Sticking out threads of the switches is how it is in the real F/A-18 pit, see for yourself in DCS. Also you never mentioned that the new base is entirely plastic! The old was metal. The throttle mounting plates are now also plastic, were aluminum before - never mentioned again. I realize that you are in Winwing's pocket, but come on, your reputation is better than that! I would summarize that Orion1 aimed for Thrustmaster Warthog, Orion2 aims for Logetch X56 throttle.
I'd spotted the top was plastic, but didn't realise the sides/base were plastic too at time of recording. Sometimes you make mistakes, in favour or against the hardware (eg viper wire length). Either case, it's not the actual review, wanted to get first impressions out as it'd been highly requested, and the review's weeks away yet.
I would not compare it to the X-56, it's leagues ahead of it, or even the warthog, given all moving parts are metal (minus detent kit/lifts which is composite) Honestly it's just as sturdy as the metal base (ignoring committing unnecessary violence upon it) and braced throughout with bolts and underlaying aluminium structure. But, i am disappointed the mounting plate is not metal. Warthog's just plastic with metal weighted plates on the outside by comparison.
I would like to clarify i don't take any money, (You're legally required to disclose this if you do on youtube too!) and turned down ad/sponsorship from WW given it's a conflict of interest whilst also reviewing hardware, unlike a certain other channel. I'm confident to criticize WW and have done so in the past, especially the initial release of the Taurus. If they stop sending me hardware, so be it, they've been professional enough to accept criticism thus far.
Accepting hardware for review is always a little double edged, if i didn't accept it I'd never be able to afford to bring the community reviews. At the same if i could go buying it all, this also brings it's own bias. I've got my own gear already, and don't need this new hardware, so i feel confident i can be unbiased. Alongside giving personal opinion on aspects like the screw thread, which i expect my audience to be mature enough to see as such. End of the day, you make your own opinions and hopefully everyone can respect that, which is why I'd always recommend multiple sources on anything you're trying to research.
@@RedKiteRender Thanks for the detailed reply! I agree that functionally both Orion bases are better than either TM Warthog or the X-56. But looks are important too, just ask CH Products with their "functional plastic" motto. Yes, metal is always only cosmetic on non moving parts in consumer throttles and here Orion2 is lacking. In fact it is hard to justify base's $216+tax+shipping price given that it is all plastic vs a full hotas of X-56 that can be had for less. Oh, and composite is marketing speak for plastic ;)
What on earth is it? Does it do anything useful?
A throttle unit, with modular handles, which are not attached in the video.
Thanks for the review Redkite, very well done and mostly impartial. This review affirms all the negative feelings I have towards this product. Supposedly 95% metal but its the most plastic-y looking thing I've ever seen. Amateur fisher price grooves, lots of elements like the PSU placement that is an overall downgrade from the previous version. Most importantly though, the #1 reason I dislike their stuff is that, people expect flight sim gear to be highly priced, but that's generally only true when you are buying a replica of something. TM Warthog's biggest claim to fame and why it sold so well is that it looks like the real deal, and equally important can be used in sim pit builds. No offence but these guys are just too cheap to pay royalties and therefore they just aren't big enough to play in the same arena as others. Therefore they will always be "good value, runner up", typical CN "knockoff" and never first class. Too bad, so sad, looks well built, but its a jack of all trades, master of none.
It's not a good review. He makes a video comparing Orion 1 vs 2 and he neglects to mention to his viewers that the new Orion 2 base is mostly plastic whereas Orion 1 was full metal, and by saying that I don't mean the gimbals but the housing. As for the gimbal mechanism it's probably zinc and not aluminium but I might be wrong with this!
@Chris GK It's not a review, that's yet to come. Community was eager to see the units changes and my first impressions, and the review is going to be a week or two away yet.
Now, onto the base material issue, it is plastic externally, but in all honestly i didn't notice initially, I originally dismissed your comment as so often to the point of madness people have called the stick/throttle handles plastic, when they are 100% aluminium bodied. I guess their choice of paint doesn't do them any favours here.
Despite being plastic on the outside, it's more sturdy than the Orion 1 base. Which has a bit of flex to it and isn't as neatly formed, being thin sheets. The plastic is required, at least top side for the more complex shape without insane costs/weight/postal charges. So whilst if you threw both an Orion 1 and 2 down the stairs, I'd put money on the Orion 1 surviving better, as metal bends whilst plastic cracks. I don't actually see this as an issue in normal use. The 'PSU' mount point is aluminium with a plastic cover. There's lots of bolts passing vertically through the whole device into the all aluminium structure inside, all moving parts are metal (aluminium or stainless steel) with the exception of the new detent / finger lift brackets which are a 'composite material', significantly better than plastic, but not metal.
If you'd like to compare it to the TM Warthog throttle, you'll find that the Warthog's actually got a plastic base too, with weighted metal plates attached externally every side, the moving throttle parts are all plastic, the only advantage it's got is the mounting plate underneath is metal, which i wish the Orion 2 had as well.
Why not just say you have a bias against Chinese made parts and leave it at that? Winwing's real competition is not TM but VKB and Virpil. TM isn't quite on the same quality level. Out of Winwing, VKB and Virpil it is Winwing that do the most relevant replica parts for DCS.
Btw good video RedKite, much appreciate the work you do.
@@Dion-es6qx Just because this is another example of it doesn't mean I have a bias towards it. Take that comment out, both you and RedKite missed my punchline which is, it's not a replica of anything, can't be used in a pit, in fact, it's just a slightly sturdier X52, jack of all trades... master of none. Regardless of build quality, why would anyone throw down big money for a toy. That's where TM, GoFlight and others stand apart, licensing, replica, quality and shockingly its a winning recipe.
Well for anyone who reads this, have to say its a hard disagree from me. Funnily enough I have an X52 I've been meaning to get around to dropping off at a charity shop and I have a TM warthog that I'm in the process of upgrading to Winwing. Have already replaced the TM base with a Winwing one to start with and was a big step up so stick and throttle are next. Looking forward to having the proper F16 throttle.
Can I have your old one? ☺