Two Canopies Out Malfunction - Skydiving Safety
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- One of the scariest malfunction for me is having 2 canopies out at the same time and it is because at that point there is no plan C both of your life-saving devices are there and if they get entangled or can't support you anymore, you are done. A skydive can get wrong really fast. In this video, I talk about why it happens, how to manage the situation if it does and how to avoid them.
**🎉Support Skydive Vibes and WIN skydiving gear: skydivevibes.com/support_form **
► Subscribe to Skydive Vibes Here: bit.ly/2Hjv9bU
TIME CODES
01:31 - How it Happens
03:22 - 5 Possible Configurations
04:59 - How to Manage
06:07 - Bi-Plane
08:28 - Side-by-Side
10:58 - Partially Deployed
13:12 - Downplane
14:27 - Entanglement
14:55 - How to Avoid it
Performance Designs Research: bit.ly/39ndePC
WATCH FULL VIDEOS NEXT
Do you know your AAD well enough? - 5 best practices: bit.ly/2lQbaMq
Skydiving Safety - Canopy Malfunction Types: bit.ly/2YAPbaW
RECOMMENDED GEAR
Rigging Innovations Curv Container: bit.ly/CurvRig
X2 Altimeter - Aon2: bit.ly/2LQIeMo / Discount code: "93NHVGAE"
Helmet - Cookie G3 - bit.ly/2KQwTeA
Viso II+ - Analog Altimeter - bit.ly/2nEQOmM
Quattro - Audible Altimeter - bit.ly/2pTaJzF
Gopro Hero4 - bit.ly/2BxDjN7
LET’S CONNECT!
CZcams - bit.ly/2Hjv9bU
INSTAGRAM - bit.ly/yt-to-insta
FACEBOOK - bit.ly/yt-to-fb
DISCLAIMER
This channel is designed to provide useful information about skydiving.
That being said, whatever information you find about skydiving on the internet, including on this channel, should always be discussed and counter-verified with a certified instructor from your skydiving association, your dropzone and/or a rigger.
Let’s all be wiser & safer skydivers!
#2out #SkydivingMalfunction #SkydiveVibes - Sport
Did you ever have a malfunction? Let me know below!
🎉Support Skydive Vibes and WIN skydiving gear: skydivevibes.com/support_form (BTW, this month it is a Cookie G4 helmet!!)
I had an issue with my slider once. Normally my slider comes down within 2-4 sec. after canopy deployment, but on this particular jump I deployed and it felt like at least 10 sec had gone by and my slider still hadn't come down yet, right as I was about to unstow my toggles to try and flare it out, it finally came down, whew! Was a little nerve wrecking for a few sec, but worked out fine. That was the closest I've come to a malfunction. But I am still so new to the sport. I just got my A license. Thanks for your videos!
I had two out due to the hardest opening of my life. The opening shock actually tore the main lift web of my harness and stretched the reserve cable so far that it deployed the reserve. Fortunately the main was fully deployed and undamaged and the reserve stayed in the bag. I used the exact recommendation in the video - did not unstow the brakes on my main. Gradually reeled in the reserve d-bag using the deployed lines and held it between my legs with the spring loaded pilot chute also there right thru the Landing. I steered with gentle rear riser tugs and PLF'd the landing. The canopy was a demo Triathalon and I never jumped it again.
@@martinmacdonald6979 What an experience. I hope you didn't hurt yourself during that hard opening!
@@martinmacdonald6979 Working your legs muscle is essential when skydiving lol Several people did the same as you even tho not recommended and I can't blame neither you or them for doing so and wanting to save lots of money instead or releasing.
@@martinmacdonald6979 Hey Martin! Something for you :) czcams.com/video/jliRO3OIyPU/video.html
I actually had a side-by-side on AFF Level 1... had a baglock and at 1000m my instructor deployed my reserve because i didnt realise i had a baglock. Reserve caused my main to deploy and boom, double out. I didnt have the balls to cut it away so i landed it... crashed through the trees into a stream. Good days, now I have my A license, close to B 🤘 i wish this video came out ealier lol
Haha!!! Always doing the full cutaway sequence is best!!
Wow!!! What an intro to your AFF...i imagine there were quite a few nerves on your 2nd jump. Well done for seeing it through, that takes guts i think 👏🏻
Early 1980s jumped a T10 with round front-mounted reserve. 10th jump - did a really good arch and the spring loaded pilot chute just sat on my back. Went off every other of my nine lives, so didn't look over my shoulder and just waited a bit. Realising no joy, I pulled the reserve. Went to reach in to grab the fabric, but too late and out she came. Main then deployed with the reserve and they tangled. On my back looking at them. We were not taught how to cutaway with capewells, so there I was. Realising the ground was fast approaching, did some kicking and biting and managed to pull them apart. Steered the main into the wind for a very soft stand up. My gentlest landing under a round(or should I say two). Felt like a spacecraft. By the way I thought your video was great. Thanks.
Hook knife tutorial video would be awesome!
No shit, there I was. Thought I was gonna die... Back somewhere around 600+ jumps, I had a premature reserve deployment at around 10k ft. while headdown. Apparently my D handle had come out of it's velcro on climb out and just the air drag on the handle from my freefly velocity was enough to pull it. Opening shock felt like I was in a car wreck and blew out two cells on my reserve. After I gained some senses and looked up, I could see sunlight through my reserve. My 7-cell reserve was now a 3+2 cell reserve held together by the tailing tape. It wasn't flying too violently, but was starting to go into a slow spiral. I knew I needed more fabric, so I had to hand deploy my main out behind me. Once it inflated (with line twists), it flew right up beside my damaged reserve: the ol' side-by-side configuration.
I was pretty relieved to have all that fabric over my head, but... wasn't too long after, what was left of that damaged reserve would try to fly off and caused the first downplane. I had never been in that situation before, but figured out right quick to grab the risers and fly those canopies back together. I started using very little input on the risers (I never released the brakes on either canopy) trying just to keep those canopies flying together. I really didn't care which direction I was flying in until I got closer to the ground. Then, I had a second downplane and recovery.
After the second downplane, the line twists in the main had worked their way down and pinned my head so I could just barely see the canopies above me. So I noticed that I had drifted to the east of the dz. Lots of open field and some trees. At that moment, I was over a bunch of trees. The thought that went threw my mind was: if I can keep these canopies flying straight, I'd rather not land in the trees, but if I did, I would deal with it. I tried looking back up at what was going on above me - two canopies still fighting it out. I'm still giving little tugs on the left reserve riser. It's hard for me to remember exactly how the canopies were configured at this point, but I do remember having to work at keeping the reserve flying with the main.
Another look down, and now I'm about to cross over a set of power lines: the big, tall, high-power kind. I definitely didn't want to go there. I figured I could do some weight shifting in the harness to get the canopies flying parallel with the power lines instead of crossing them. I see the ground at what seems like about 70-ish ft. below me. Then I feel the canopies start to separate and go into a third downplane. A second later, I'm on the ground.
So, to cut the rest of the story short: I ended up laying in a cut soybean field with a broken femur. The local deputy sheriff pulls up into the field and the catalytic converter on his car catches the field on fire. Luckily there were enough friends to pick me up and get me out of the way of the fire.
Also, as a side note: I had taken off my hook knife because I had flown commercially with my rig as my carry-on the month before and not put it back on. So cutting away the reserve never entered my mind. Probably a good thing, because several highly experienced jumpers advised me afterwards that cutting away a reserve is usually a bad idea.
Apologies for the long post. I tried to shorten it as much as I could.
Hey man, I realize this comment was forever ago, but do you recall why cutting away the reserve in this case would be bad? As I was reading your comment, my assumption was that the safest thing might be to cut the reserve with the hook and then pull your main. Why would that not be the wisest in this case?
@@joshuakazarian9906 The way it was explained to me was that once you cut through one side of the reserve suspension lines, you've just turned that simi-flying reserve into a wad-of-crap reserve over your head. And the key thing: you've turned your slow malfunction into a fast malfunction. Now you've only got seconds to (hopefully) cut the other side and deploy the main cleanly or risk entangling the main into that wad-of-crap reserve.
I've never seen a main canopy deployed into a wad-of-crap reserve, but I have seen a reserve deployed into a wad-of-crap main. It wasn't pretty. That was a young kid with young flexible bones and wet, soft ground beneath him. He still ended up with a cracked hip and broken collar bone.
I guess I was lucky since I didn't have my hook knife. I didn't even have the choice to cut my reserve away. Looking back on the incident, probably the better choice I SHOULD have made would be to apply just enough tension to the inside front risers (of both canopies) to ensuring the main and reserve canopies stay flying together side-by-side instead of downplaning. Hopefully could have still weight-shifted to avoid the power lines and would have had enough fabric flying over my head to PLF and maybe walk away.
The first ever thing you have to do in case of a two canopies out is to disconnect the RSL. This is because in case you need to cutaway your main to clear your reserve this will avoid an entanglement of the RSL with the risers.
Very good point. I mention it when I talk about a possible cutaway. But most of the time, it was recommended not to cutaway if they are flying well. ;)
@@SkydiveVibes thats correct, also you dont know if the situation is gonna change in any moment, so you have to be ready to cutaway your main and thats why is the first thing to do when you realise you have two canopies out
Yup. I forgot this. Thank you for the reminder!!
@@Andy152R you are very welcome bro 👍
In my opinion when your reserve canopy is out it means the RSL is already is disconnected. Because RSL is attached to reserve's pin or the M.A.R.D system is attached to reserve's bridle . Also the altitude is more important than disconnecting RSL because you have to make a decision very soon .
No serious mals (yet), but I like to constantly review all the possibilities in my head (or in a training harness) so I will immediately know what to do. I don't want my next jump to be my last! Thank you for the lowdown on dual canopies!
God, I love it!
I've done a few tandem jumps from 14,000 feet and all I can think about is taking the AFF course to be certified as a solo skydiver!
I love it!
I had two canopies out in August, somehow pulled my loose chest strap thinking it was my handle and deployed my reserve. This created a far worse situation and instead of looking at my chest for my handle again i did everything else that of course didnt work. I hit the top of a building at roughly 50 mph and somehow am still breathing to tell the tale. I suffered a sever compound lower leg and foot fracture and will be recovering for what is looking like a year or better. I feel that i failed in my EP's because my mind was focused that day due to personal reasons such as putting my dog to sleep the day before and i let go of my handle to change heading one last time before cutting away then quick fired my handles or so i thought. In the decent i could have cut away using my knife but never did it cross my mind, i was trying to pull the lines from under my 3 rings instead of looking at my handles, i tried to fix the main tension knots by putting my feet up in the lines to help me bring it in closer to the riser which was stuck about 2/3rds of the way down, etc... everything except what would work and what my training covered. To this day i don't know how i was able to survive the impact, i think i may have been blown sideways at the last minute from the turbulence of the trees and the roof top as it was a brisk day which i am thankful for. This was my first malfunction i had to cut away and i failed miserably on implementing my EP's properly which i have practiced 1000's of times and do before every exit etc... but I wont let it deter me and feel i will be a better skydiver for it. Thank you though and all the others who publish these videos as they truly are a help, even if we don't remember them when needed, lol, jk. I do believe they will help others and my horror story will remind us all, don't jump if your mind isnt in it that day, just take a break, it is'nt that important to make that 1 jump if it will cost you the many in the future.!!!
Congrats on 10k!♡♡♡
I had a malfunction in the military. We were jumping a C-130 and a new paratrooper just out of jump school jumped out the left door while I jumped out the right. Immediately he had twists in his risers and he was bicycling to remove them. Unfortunately he was falling much faster than I was and he fell spinning in one side of my suspension lines, through my chute and out the other side. So now we were in giant X formation. The chutes would bang together and collapse and we would fall a hundred feet or so then they would reinflate from the speed then collapse again. I thought about cutting away but we were falling too fast and we don't jump at very high altitudes in the military. When we deploy our reserves they it does not cut away the main and looking at the tangled mess above us in the moonlight I could tell a reserve would only tangle us further. This was the middle of the night so the only thing we could see was the horizon and the pine trees rushing up. "Prepare to land" I yelled and we burned in the last 100 feet or so. I hit like a ton of bricks and did 3 or 4 outstanding PLFs in perfect form ;) before coming to rest. I did a "systems" check of each of my limbs and bones and besides a dead shoulder I was alive and well. He came running over to see if I was OK and I punched him in the face with my good arm and said "Next time stay out of my chute new guy! Now help me up." We had gotten very lucky to hit a patch of soft sand in between the North Carolina pine trees and we both walked ( well limped ) away. Airborne All the Way.
Thanks for taking the time to research, make, edit and share this video, Great information,
Thanks, Catherine
Great video with a lot of very useful info. I'm definitely gonna have to rewatch it.
Super!! Stay safe!
Thanks for the info, I never really contemplated what I would do in these situations. It’s a relief when the secrets are revealed. It could save me injury or death.
Exactly the goal of this video! ;) Thanks for watching!
Great video.
I'm learning as much as I can so I can AFF next spring.
Was intrigued by the hookknife.
Gonna figure it out.
Thank you. I am new in to the sport. I am watching allot of videos. I will start my AFF next month. Thank you for all your information! I will subscribe!
Very good Topic. Congrats
Thanks Jefferson!!
So far my biggest malfunction has been a simple line twist due to instability during deployment. Re evaluated body positioning and the problem went away! 😀 thanks for all the great videos!
Thanks for sharing!!
Yep, had this exact situation.
AFF course in 1995, the instruction was that if you have nothing above your head after throwing the pilot cute go straight for reserve, without cutting away.
Jump 95, threw the pilot chute, nothing after 5 - 7 seconds. Went straight for reserve. Worked perfectly. Looked down to see where I was, then back up just to see my main slowly opening next to reserve…..
Straight into a down plane. Immediately cut away without thinking and landed ok.
Always throw PC with positive force into slipstream and cutaway even if no main is open
Knowing what I know now, was Very lucky….
Wow what an experience in AFF!! Glad it turned out well!
The instruction I got during AFF: Always cut away if you tried to open the main. Even if you weren't able to find a pilot chute handle but tried to find it - CUT AWAY before reserve. The only exception is low altitude.
I wish i watched this video last week! On my 45th jump, i had a side by side. I was able to control both canopies using the 2 outside rear risers very gently (not the USPA recommended way) and make a good, soft landing.
This video would have been a good review for me on how to do it the correct way. Thanks!
Great Video ! 👍
Thanks for watching!
nice video again! really usefull, luckily never had such an malfunction. but this video is helpfull!
Let's touch wood!! Thanks for watching!
Thanks! Great video
Thanks for watching!
I had a AAD misfire one time . Ended up with a nice pair, one square one round. Everything was cool no tangled mess but it was so quiet like I was just setting there at 1800ft. It was my 5th jump so my JM WAS SCREAMING CUT AWAY!! I did finally . Hard landing under that round. Things were a little different in 1994
Another great upload....one of my favourites!! Thatnks Catherine 😁I saw a vid on YT the other night where a jimper had two out and the main was only hanging on by a single line entanglement dragging behind him, he had no knife and couldn't clear it, fortunately for him it cleared itself about 30 feet from the ground and he landed safely....Blue Skies 🤙🏻
Yeah I saw him too. This is why now I always recommend a hook knife!!
@@SkydiveVibes i was actually thinking of you and the fact that you recommend the knife....i thought "clearly this man is not watching enough SkydiveVibes uploads" 🤔
great video,can you upload how and when to use hook knife ?
I had a two out on a tandem jump. Side by side and the kept trying to down plane on me. Released the skyhook lanyard, checked the risers on both canopies to make sure they were both clear if each other and released the main when the canopies were facing away from each other. It was a clean, smooth transition from both to the reserve. Landed normally.
Great vid, 🐈!
Thanks Jason!!
Great video! There are many opinions out there on how to react to each situation. I'll stick to PD's recommendations. But understanding your gear & how it works is essential IMO
Exactly! There are not right or wrong answer. By being ready we can handle most of the situations!
Great video!! What would happen if you didn’t disconnect the RSL in a downward plane situation?
Thank you 😊
I’m always watching vids on EP’s. - Drill this into my brain
Do you have a coach rating? If not definitely go for it. Very informative video. Blue Skies!
Thanks a lot. I am working on it. ;)
I 2nd that 👍🏻
This is a very important video. Had I watched it before jump 210 March 11, 2001! Pilot chute in tow, didn't do EPs, always do people, instead thought tracking as fast as possible (smart ass thinking, real dumb), would extract my main, nope, seeing people's faces on the ground, in free fall isn't real cool, or fun, just pulled reserve, under canopy at 600' (no aad), then I feel a tug from behind, and there it is, my main deploying into a side by side. I quickly started Wondering what to do, I chopped it, made a 180 flared and landed. Stand up too. All good in the world. Chucked my reserve handle lol.
You are the ''active self protection of skydiving '' 😁
I had a two-out due to a misrouted RSL lanyard. The RSL lanyard had become loose out of its channel (Icon no longer uses velcro, and you have to ensure it is within its channel), and laid over the top of my main lift web. When I deployed at 4k, the main lift web caught on the lanyard and pulled the reserve pin. Would have never know, but had a photographer with us on the jump, and you could clearly-see the RSL lanyard loose, over the main lift web. Resulted in an unstable biplane, that began to separate with any riser movement left or right. Kept hands off the risers, and did not unstow toggles. Stayed in a wide left turn all the way to touchdown. Landed backwards in a soybean field, very gentle landing lol. Point is gear check. I was new, and did not realize there is more to just checking the RSL is connected to the ring. You have to know exactly what you are looking at, ensure the lanyard is tucked away under the reserve riser.
Ouf glad you made it ok!
Side-by-side situation is quite controversial. I was told to try cut away main in case of high altitude. And the main reason for that was mentioned by Catherine - side-by-side easily can end up as down plane. But different instructors have different views on how to cut away. Some say that you want to pull left canopy a bit from the other canopy so its easier to use the right hand for cut away. Others think that you want to pull the reserve a bit so you won't be injured by risers of the main canopy.
Great Video 👍
It is always tricky. I would assess if the canopies are stable together and if not yeah I would try to cutaway.
How much do I want to steer this? Landing pattern or just land super off dz?
Great
Awesome video and you always present the info so well thank you!!
On an unrelated note I went jumping this past weekend with a cold and I have not been able to clear my right ear for 2 days now. Any advice? It feels like water is in my ear but holding my nose and pressurizing my ears has not worked.
Blue skies! ✌🏻
I am not sure about another trick then blowing through your nose. 🤔
I had this same problem last year....i waited weeks with no improvement and ended going to the doctors where they prescrided a super expensive nasal spray that eventually cleared it up. It took about a month of using the spray before it cleared but eventually it did
Clay B take ephedrine for a couple of days then pinch your nose and see if that relieves the pressure. Most cases it’s a clog in your stationary tube that leads from your sinus cavity to the ear behind the ear drum. That can cause a bit of pain your ear and it has the same feeling you are describing.
In a similar situation my doc once recommended using the nasal spray (the medicinical, not the salt water type) directly into the ear. Took a little getting used to but worked out fine.
Thanks a lot for the replies it was nice knowing it happened to other people. (No one at my dz knew about it)
I’m noticing the pressure is subsiding each day thankfully.
Thanks again!
like 700 here just found you just subscribed soo glad i found you thx
Glad to see you here!
I had two out situation after a pilot chute hesitation sometime past 1100 jumps. It wasn't a PC in tow, rather the pilot chute had flipped over my back and collapsed. I could see nothing overhead and rolling on my side to clear it didn't work either, so I punched my reserve, which opened just fine. At that point my main decided to come out and play behind the reserve. It was still just inflating and a quick visual check showed no conflict with the risers, so I chopped the main before it could finish inflating. As I'd already pulled the reserve ripcord I didn't bother with checking or disconnecting my RSL. I then flew the reserve to a good landing. I believe this kind of PC hesitation is the result of current thinking to "throw" the pilot chute out sideways. This "throwing" is vulnerable to complacency or just losing one's grip on the handle. The PC can then flip over one's back and crawl around like some evil jellyfish. After this malfunction, I reverted to the old school (original 1970s) method of pulling the PC out to full arm's length and letting go. After that I never had a problem again. As a post script, back on the ground I discovered my freebag and main pilot chute had burned each other up and both needed to be replaced. But God bless the freebag, I'm convinced it saved my life.
Made my 1st jump in October, 1967. Only 1 mal on a Mk 1 Paracommander since then.
Cool video but make it shorter next time pls. I had my phone on the way down but I had to skip intro to know what to do.
Btw as I'm writing this, it worked !
I had a 2 out of the first time last November. My main was in a down spin to the ground because of a toggle fire. I didn't recognize it in time and was attempting to fix by pulling the rear risers, I pulled reserve and had a two out as was a high speed and I was below cut away safety, ended up with a broken femur
Oh no! When you pulled your reserve did you do your full procedure to cutaway then reserve?
@@SkydiveVibes no, I went straight to reserve. I was at about 1600 feet. At the Time thought I might be too low. I am still a younger jumper with about 130 jumps. I have been jumping a year. Other than a few times with some line twists that fixed pretty easily, never had a malfunction
what is a "toggle fire"?
I think you should put links to the footage you used from The Australian Parachute Federation (APF)
Good point I forgot to do it. Although I did put their channel name in the video and asked them the permission first. ;)
And by the way i do ❤️ your channel. Blue sky from 🇦🇺
Thank God I am doing a Tandem parachute jump & not one on my own
This happend to me yesterday
great
I had 2 out on my 40th jump. Probably from getting bumped in free fall. I didn't even know what was happening, all I saw was my main doing weird stuff and I cut it away. Check your reserve pins people. Specially if you get wacked by a human missile.
So true!! Or always be doubting it after a collision!!
where is buy parachte and how much
correct me if I am wrong but you never discuss how to fix a down plane....
Anyone else have distracting music during this video? Great topic, thanks.
Worst canopy malfunction? Reserve horseshoe.
First!
You rock!
I think two out entanglement is by far worse than downplaning.
no, i think the worst is it tangling and you falling to your death. To be honest i feel like having double the canopys means double the safety
If you don't know this stuff and you are already skydiving...I wish you luck.
Isn't that a french accent ? :)
Sorry, but a total is worst mal. Id rather have 2 than none.
But with a total you can still deploy your reserve. ;) In case of 2 out of something goes wrong you have no plan C
@@SkydiveVibes yes but you still are travelling at terminal. You still have options in both situations, one is more likely to kill you unless remedied.
While i agree with you saying '2 out is difficult to deal with' because of how many different ways it can be oriented and altitude, you are moving quite a bit slower in most cases. (In most cases unless downplaned you can land it.) In a total/nothing out situation, death is the only outcome unless fixed.
As i tell people when teach FJC, "if you ask 20 experienced skydivers what to do in a 2 out, you will get 25 different answers."
dislodge pin... souvent en s'asseyant ou s'accrochant àqq'un ou qqe chose dans l'avion.
En passant, une image vaut mille mots. 90% trop de bla bla et tu perds les gens. Ajoute plus de photos lors du montage ou plus d'extraits de vidéo. Ici c'est CZcams, pas le Journal Le Devoir ;)
Cheers et continue!
Nothing worse than some line twist
are you an instructor if not how can you give advice on malfunctions.
I'd consider a streamer or a horsshoe mal to be worse than two out.