debunking prophets - part one [cc]
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- A reflection on the individuals who design religions - and the holes in their stories.
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
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opening quote:
Fear prophets, Adso, and those prepared to die for the truth, for as a rule they make many others die with them, often before them, at times instead of them.
-from ‘Name of the Rose’, Umberto Eco
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subtitles
Arabic: TranquilOblivion
Bulgarian: Djeitko
Slovak: Peter Ščigulinský
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Dorothy Martin resources:
Festinger, L., Riecken, H. and Schachter, S. (1956) When prophecy fail - a social and psychological study of a modern group that predicted the destruction of the world. Harper-Torchbooks. [Re-editions by other publishers]
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Lafayette Ronald Hubbard resources:
Hubbard, L.R. (1950) Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. Hermitage House.
Forry Ackerman and Gerry Armstrong quotes:
‘Secret lives’ (1997) broadcast by Channel 4 UK
• L. Ron Hubbard (Secret...
Jon Atack quote:
• Jon Atack Undoing Undu...
Miller, R. (1987) Bare-face Messiah: The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard. Michael Joseph.
Not cited in video, but worth reading:
Atack, J. (1990) A Piece of Blue Sky. Lyle Stuart Books.
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Joseph Smith resources:
Smith, J. (1830) Book of Mormon.
Smith, J. (1835) Book of Abraham.
Smith, J. (1835) Doctrine and Covenants.
Smith, J. et al (1856) History of the Church, volume 1.
'Seraphims' apologetic - the typesetter argument:
www.fairmormon.org/archive/pu...
Original handwritten manuscript containing 'seraphims' mistake:
www.josephsmithpapers.org/pape...
‘Book of Abraham’ apologetic:
www.lds.org/topics/translatio...
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music © TheraminTrees
Full original music tracks used in videos are available to patreon supporters who pledge at the $1 per video level.
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I’m familiar with religious people actually telling me I need to have “child like faith” in order to believe in their god. Can you imagine that? You know what else requires child like faith? Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy.
HEY.
Show Santa some RESPECT.
@@RockSprites No. I need a bag of coal for my Christmas BBQ.
I’m thinking outside the box.
@@2l84me8 How disappointing. No $20 under your pillow mister.
i remember sinking into depression because i wasnt a kid anymore.. im so glad i got out of the toxic christian values
@@2l84me8 "sometimes my genius is... It's almost frightening"
Thank you for teaching me how to think critically. your vids are so helpful. I'm 63. Lived 40 years as a Jehovah's witness. Didn't graduate high school. It's hard for me to think things through to a logical conclusion but you are helping me stretch my mind.
I'm really to glad to hear that. Thanks.
Good luck! Stay strong man!
it's refreshing to hear that you're willing to question things and improve your thinking
Better late than never! I hope you have a nice journey.
@@dadamager3000 you said it! Questioning everything is crucial.
My mother actually tried to get me to think less so that I could be closer to God.
Eastern mystic religions actually have you clear all ur doubts with critical thinking and then get you to stop/unidentify with all the thoughts in your head. Maybe she was doing something similar?
@@kbains3955 That's WAAAY too deep for Mum. Bless her.
@@kbains3955 Bollocks.
How?
Same here, bro. Sorry to hear that.
"People who don't want you to think are never your friend" That deserves a t-shirt.
aderek79 I'd wear the shit out of that shirt.
WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE SO BIASED that WHAT THEY CLAIM TO 'THINK' is NOTHING MORE THAN an EXTERNAL JOURNEY through the INTERNAL BIASES they DISGUISE as CRUCIAL THOUGHT"
@@thetruthchannel349 you wrote a lot of words, yet nothing intelligent or cohesive emerged from it.
@@sarahbarabe8470 truth is highly indoctrinated.
@@thetruthchannel349 Yup, that's what theists do.
Dorothy Martin: "Everything Bertha Blatsky says is the truth."
Bertha Blatsky: "Everything Dorothy Martin says is a lie."
You're point ?
It's the classic "This statement is false" Paradox.
@@grandsome1 Fuzzy logic ?
@Wisest 1 you are not actually contradicting wade. He just made a joke about this irony, that is all. Let it go
@Wisest 1 you must be fun at parties...
The "prophets are lone wolves" thing reminded me of the story in the bible where there were two prophets, one saying "let's ally with A" and one saying "let's ally with B" in the coming war. One was followed, and it turned out well, and they had the other one executed.
Somehow my religious family doesn't see the issue that, if it had gone the other way, the other prophet, also claiming to be from the same god, would have wound up on the pedestal/executed. "History is written by the winners" and all that.
I was watching two videos the other day. One was the Nazis and the other was the Russian Revolution.
The major players in both countries were mass murderers of their enemies and then later turned on one another. Dog eat dog.
To witness these human bloodbaths as God's Divine Plan is a faith killer for me.
All roads lead to rome.
@@JamesRichardWiley It's certainly a clever plan to have the two evil nations destroy each other, like something the Doctor himself might concoct in his near-infinite wisdom, but as far as I'm concerned, such things don't prove that a certain Deity does or doesn't exist so much as disprove all of the ideas about said Deity being omni-anything that were shoved into texts that clearly describe the opposite-a finite tribal God who controls all only through being King of the Pantheon of deities.
that frace cliche meme thinks has been puppsedly missused, it should read, "history is distorted corrupted by the winning party
God don't contradict Himself which story is this i want book chapter and verses lets talk about the prophecies that came to pass 100 percent accuracy
“A man in a robe. Claiming communion with the divine. Madness.”
- Darkest Dungeon narrator
Thats a game right? How is it?
@@pard3sh15 depends on how you like your games and how you play. It can be very difficult and punishing at times, a random encounter can outright delete hours and days of your work. At the same time, once you learn certain mechanics and become experienced it becomes much easier, to the point where you can exploit certain game mechanics to obliterate anything in your path. RNG can still cause a lot of damage to you, but you'll be able to minimize the chances of it happening. And if you are capable of using the "Losing is fun!" principle the game becomes even better. Sometimes the way things go downhill is fascinating to look at, you know.
When it comes to visuals and audio, they're of superb quality. Style preferences are subjective, sure, but quality is objective. It has a gothic medieval atmosphere, rather dark and with a lot of Lovecraftian details.
It also supports modding, even through Steam Workshop. So you can tweak and add all kinds of things.
It's rather cheap too, so all in all, you should check out a trailer or just it's store page and if you like it - buy it, you won't regret it.
@@Poppenheimer69 so it's a rogue like? I love rogue likes
the hallmark of the game is its brutality
And he says it in such an awesome voice too.
Grew up as a mormon, I could have really used this as a kid. Thanks friend
@Donald Mackay k
God loves you though.religion tried to control you. Jesus wants to set you free. The religious people hated Jesus. He's setting me free from a long term addiction and being a father figure I never had. I encourage you to try Jesus he'll never let you down
@@fusionlotus what if I want to be saved by God's daughter instead of his son. Kinda gay really...(no hate for the LGBT community)
@@proculusjulius7035 hey! Hope you have had a good day so far. Interesting point. My counselor and I had a good chat about things like that recently. He opened my eyes to see that God is both perfect mix of male and female. I often used to feel bad and less of a man because I'd rather dance, write and bake rather than play football and go drinking! But I feel better about it. If I want to dance my emotions out after watching a powerful movie... Then I can 😁. So if Jesus is the face of God on earth then he could relate to male, female, gay, straight, bi etc... he would have had a perfect balance of masculine and feminine qualities whilst walking on this earth. When you look at the gospels Jesus shows kindness, softness but not weakness, he was strong but not controlling, lenient, emotional, enjoyed crowds and mega quiet spaces,gave women a voice, hung out with the down-and-outs, the marginalised, different races etc. I like the fact that I can relate to him. He understands me completely and doesn't judge me. In him I've found a faithful friend and heavenly father. Hope that helps. Let me know if I can help you in anyway or send some prayers to the man upstairs 😎👍
@@fusionlotus interesting, the Bible says that we're made in God's image? Does that mean that he too has a male and female apparatus? And to say that God has a perfect balance of both sexes, doesn't humanize him rather than deify him as the supernatural being that created the billions and billions of galaxies?
Everyone can think about the flaws in other people's religions, but we never think about the deliberate deceit , and shortsightedness in our own religions.
uncleanunicorn That is so true!
@Ben Meulink but peer review makes me *feel bad*
I agree. It's funny; my family is Mormon, so I often hear people mocking Mormons- that is, other Christians mocking Mormons, and it stuns me every time how clearly they seem to accept the falseness of Mormonism, while still believing virtually the same garbage, just in different form.
@@FrankLeeWillis Being able to mock the mormons even strengthens the feeling of being correct and the mormons have the prosecution card.
I've been talking to a JW couple for a couple of months now and the answers I get to my questions are far from answers but clearly taught responses to avoid having to answer, many of which turn the burden of proof around and sometimes I'm accused of cherry picking when I offer to study entire books of the bible as a whole and ask questions about what it actually says and if it lines up with what they believe it says.
The indoctrination and refusal to question any statement they make is so clear to me, but to them it would never feel like that. In their mind they don't refuse to question, their faith is just that strong and they won't ever see they are indoctrinated, that would mean their peers are evil but they're all good people.
When you're in the middle of something it never feels as horrible as it is described with others. We all fall for it. The abuser isn't all that bad, he's sweet to the children. The toothache doesn't hurt so much so we can work a couple more days. Sure we're tired but the work has to be done and we can rest later.
If we all followed our own advice no one would have a burn out and no one would accept any kind of abuse and no one would wait more than a weekend with a toothache that robs us of sleep. But we're blind as fuck. We need each other.
We also need to be taught critical thinking and investigative skills. That could help prevent falling for dumb shit in the first place. And boy, would it have been nice if I had learned some critical thinking as a child.
This is very common, but it is my critical thinking that led me out of Mormonism, and has led to many people leaving as well. I get your point though and think that more people need to think critically about their own beliefs.
The first time I heard about Mormonism was through South Park and I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. Glad to know they did almost no exaggeration.
You know about the Broadway musical "The Book Of Mormon" done by Parker, Stone, and others, right? watch?v=BYefVSRm4Sc
You really have no idea if you haven't been raised in it. Glad I escaped.
You're kind of supposed to investigate Mormonism (Jesus Christ) on your own. The Mormon faith is not the same thing that the anti-Mormon Christians present. South Park is a cartoon.
I was a member for 24 years and it's dead-on correct.
Right
I gotta admit, man, this is the most powerful and professional religion debunking channel around.
TheraminTrees has REALLY done his research. A+++
I agree completely and I really wish I found this place sooner
i would debunk religion all day but not GOD you can not prove or disprove GOD exists that revelation comes from GOD
@@truthseekers1620 Nor can you prove or disprove whether Zeuss, Baal, Vishnu, or/and Saklas exist. If you choose to worship, I'd encourage you to ask yourself why you believe that thing in particular is more believable than the alternatives
@@yesfredfredburger8008 i'd ask myself which of the following revealed themselves only God has revealed himself there are thing that are self evident like the existence of God the fact that we have a conscience also there is the Holy Spirit in me who tells me the truth there is lots of proof for the existence of God nature being one order in the universe being another the resurrection being another maybe so but they are false deities why i believe what i believe is because it is the truth and yes people can say that for what they believe to be true but i have nothing to lose if what i believe turns out to be false but if what i believe is true and i don't believe not only do i have to endure painful discipline but will lose rewards not worried about eternal torture cause that is false salvation is a done deal and you will see Christ for yourself
@@truthseekers1620 All of those other God’s have “revealed” themselves like yours has.
Someone claimed that a particular god revealed themselves to them or someone else claimed to be God. That is all you got for a “reveal” and almost every other major religion has had something like that, take Mohammad or Buddha for instance.
I love how you’re almost completely logical when analyzing religion until it comes to your particular religion (here comes the “I don’t believe in a religion, I believe in God.” spiel). Always interesting to see how ridiculously strong some people’s rose-colored lenses are when looking at their own religion.
As for seeing the Holy Spirit, if you’re being literal you had a hallucination, if not then your claim is valueless as you have absolutely nothing supporting it, not even yourself.
You’re wasting your life and have already wasted part of it and are now trying to justify continuing to do so so you don’t have to come to that depressing conclusion. I suggest you get out now as the chances of Pascal’s wager working out for you are quite literally infinitely small.
During my deconversion from evangelical fundamentalist Christianity I binged all of your videos.
The way you communicate philosophy and the human condition is superb!!
I wish you could make more frequent uploads, but the sheer quality more that makes up for it!!!
Channels like yours make such a massive difference for the lives they touch and have sparked in me a hungering flame for knowledge and understanding.
I hope the Atheist, skeptic, humanist, etc. community will be here to support such a fantastic content creator!
Thanks Nicholas. I'm glad you've found the videos useful - and I've had tremendous support from the groups you mention.
I'm finding it strange- you see, my family is Mormon. I have lived in very Mormon Utah my whole life. Yet I'm not sure I ever really believed in a god, and I started questioning when I was only nine years old. Mind you, I didn't question because of any of these problems with Joseph Smith. See, with God, any of that can be easily excused. But rather, with the idea of God himself. So it really got cut off at the very root of religion, not just of this religion.
Anyway, I often hear people talking about Mormonism, as in this video (side note: hearing 'Elohim" actually took a moment to compute. Like, I was an adult before I learned that was his name in Mormonism. We always just called him God or Heavenly Father). Whenever I hear anyone saying anything against the church, I feel this uncomfortable sensation of desperately wanting to argue with them. Usually because they're misrepresenting something, but this video was completely truthful. Still, I felt that rise. Maybe it's a remnant of the religion in me, or maybe it's from the habit of trying to correct people. I've come to think, however, that I might want to argue in a way that rationalizes Mormonism for two reasons: 1) the sake of my family, particularly my dear mother, who is as rational a human as I've ever met, and whom I love dearly, and 2) for the sake of something a little more complicated.
When I hear religious people mocking Mormonism, I tend to become rather indignant. It doesn't matter how true what they're saying is. The fact is, I can't stand that people can treat Mormonism like a freak show without realizing their own hypocrisy. At its roots, Mormonism is just another denomination of vanilla Christianity. Its flaws mostly mirror those of any other denomination or, on a larger scale, any other religion. I guess it makes me angry to see people call Mormonism a cult when I can look at them from an outside perspective and see that they are guilty of the exact same things.
I love this channel, but I guess I had to rant a bit to calm this feeling. Maybe I'm trying too much to rationalize this urge, and maybe it's far more simple. Nonetheless, I know that nobody is going to read this far, so whatever. Please ignore my nonsensical gibbering and continue on.
I treally like your comment and i understamd that exact feeling. The more you put it into perspective the easier it is to control it and understamd yourself better. I'm glad you shared!
Thanks for sharing that. I suspect what you're describing is quite a common sensation - but maybe not so commonly voiced. I'm glad you voiced it.
It surprised me when I first felt that. Decades later, it's still my first reaction when I hear someone talking against religion or my childhood church. And yet I talk against them myself. But it's like someone saying something critical about your child--YOU may know your kid is stupid and ugly, but by golly, you don't want to hear it from others even if intellectually you acknowledge the truth of what they say.
I was also raised in a Mormon family. I have the same feelings you described. I never really acknowledged or knew I had these feelings until I read your comment and your description of those feelings are spot on. My mother is also very rational, but that rationale seems to dissolve when we talk about the Mormon faith.
You deceived by joseph smith he is not true prophet of God a very immoral prophet who teaches adultery to have many wives but still you cannot commit adultery as long as their are virgins but it is not true joseph smith have 43 wives but not all of them are virgins some of them are the wives of his worker or pastor. Mormon church is not of God but of the devil their doctrine is not in the bible they invented their own bible the books of mormons which according to joseph smith gave to him by angel moroni ho ho ho ho ho really? Joseph Smith is a liar he prophesied that a New Jerusalem will erect in the state of Missouri but no more till the death of joseph and the mormons drive away from Missouri because they practiced polygamy nothing new jerusalem was erected probing that mormon church and joseph smith is a liar and false prophet. It is good, better and best if you voluntarily expel yourself from mormon church. All they want to you is your money money money.
Religion sometimes feel like as if you can say you're a prophet and just come up with pretty much any crap you want
Well yeah catto that's why you have a religion then you have a hundred denominations that all think the other crazy. In Monty Python's " life of Brian" the followers of Brian break into w factions because as he tries to avoid them he drops first a gourd then a shoe. One side says the show is a sign and the others the gourd. And so it's always been those who can benefit from this angle push that angle the others who benefit in a different or competing fashion push the other or opposite angle.
An ad for something called "National Week of Repentance" played before the video.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the storms. Meteorological events seem like a lightning rod for panic-induced acts of contrition.
Watch it fully to cost them the highest possible fee for the ad then forget about it completely xD
Religious ads have a tendency to be targeted towards atheist videos. It's like they're trying to fight against the videos themselves.
@@overdrive_uk it's because of the tags behind the video, something like : religion. The ad targets vids with that tag
I got an add for something called The Knights Templar Order.
"People who don't want you to think are never your friend". That's so true in so many ways, and not limited to religion. Thinking also means disagreeing and criticizing, and that's why it is so important to speak your mind. Not in a judgemental way, but in a way to approach understanding gradually. And inevitably while doing so, some of your thoughts will be incorrect, but still necessary to voice them, even if imperfect. That's what learning is about, and learning should be possible, even in conflict.
But it's different when it comes to human rights though; I feel human rights should never be a debate. Pineapple on pizza is a debate, religion is a debate, hell even schools are a debate but a person right to choose pineapple on pizza shouldn't be a debate, a person right to practice her religion should not be a debate unless it imposes on another human right , or a person right to go to school.
I don't like people using human rights to start a debate
@@littlesunshine4591
The concept of human rights is invented. It has no innate existence. Therefore we understand that there's no guarantee that it's correct in all respects.
With the best of intentions, the concept may be correct on some points and not on others.
And there is no guarantee that someone who formulates a concept of human rights has the best intentions. We know that many people , though not all, are motivated by the desire for power and control over others.
Therefore we should welcome debate about what are human rights, how do we distinguish them from other imperatives, how do we know which are legitimate and why, and how do we go about resolving internal contradictions within a system of human rights.
For example, if we declare that some measure of autonomy is a human right, who gets to decide on behalf of others what those rights should be?
It seems to me that you've overlooked all of these considerations and have decided to declare human rights as somehow exempt from examination. You do not have that right. See what I did there?
@@starfishsystems "The concept of human rights is invented. It has no innate existence"
Being human is invented too but it doesn't mean people go around Killing others and cannibalizing them.
Human rights exists because we exist, because our humanity exist.
The right to live, the right to exist and co exist peacefully with others and the right to take autonomic decision should not be a debate because it's basic human rights.
And this should apply to everyone regardless of who and what they are because of the ground work of being human.
Although there are ethical dilemmas like the humanity of soliders during war , Abortion and of course how to treat criminals. We don't deny that first thing first is humanity.
"Therefore we should welcome debate about human rights"
Like I said ethical dilemmas are debatable, the innate existence of a human is not. Human rights have to do with the innate existence of a human being
@@littlesunshine4591What do you mean by "the innate existence of a human being"? What about being a human being "innately" implies that they must be treated with dignity?
These are concepts made by mankind for its own betterment and continued progress, they certainly are not inherent to human beings, and that's not a bad thing at all, either.
"Basic human rights" ought to be debated, because our judgements on what implicitly deserves to be protected or what doesn't can change: not necessarily due to the moral standards being subjective but moreso because even with our moral standards we can make incorrect assumptions, forget, be moved by emotion, be ignorant, or be incapable of fully applying our standards.
On one end, someone might claim to be a champion of human rights but also want to heavily restrict the freedoms of others due to personal prejudice or misinformation. On the other end, someone might allow individuals to freely restrict the rights of others due to their biases, prejudices, or misinformation.
@@barney1942 The reason I said so is that though out history, when there's a debate about human rights, it's about one group of people wanting to eliminate the other side , while the other side have to explain their existence.
When slaves wanted rights there were debates about it ; some people brought out reasons why they shouldn't have those rights and supported it with evidence. It was a way of limiting their struggles, giving reasons why they should be satisfied at a level of dehumanization.
It happened with the Jews, it happened with women , it happened with gay people and now trans people.
Debating human rights gives the oppressors a false equivalence balance ; it gives a reason why such people should not exist even if it's on a slippery slope fallacy.
Does it mean ethical dilemmas should not be debated? No , ethical dilemmas are debated to reach a middle ground.
I had my own messy experience debunking some "prophetesses." This isn't my only story, but it's the most recent: my mom and I went to them (though I was very hesitant) because I was seeing and hearing something that I could only describe as a "shadow demon." When it appeared, which was only at night in my room, I wouldn't be able to move while he whispered evil things into my ear. I was 19 when I went to the prophetesses, and they told me in great detail about my "demon," saying that it was a warlock (whom they physically described and even said he was in the room with us, spying on us) and that a coven had targeted me to cause me to turn away from Christ. They gave me specific instructions to follow, some chants, and recommended some oils to anoint myself with. They told me to burn my Harry Potter books and to get rid of a necklace that had belonged to my deceased grandmother (and anything else I had that was second-hand, as the warlock could be using the energy of an object to tie himself to me.) The meeting with them made everything even more real and amplified my terror.
It's been about three years since then, and a few months ago I was diagnosed with a sleep disorder. Among the common symptoms are: visual and auditory hallucinations upon falling asleep and/or waking up (an extremely common hallucinations for people to have is of a "shadow man,"), and sleep paralysis upon falling asleep and/or waking up (which is usually accompanied by the hallucinations.)
While I had already become an atheist by that point, it was still a relief to know that there was an explanation for what had happened, and that the explanation did not include the supernatural or the occult. It's just sad to me that instead of visiting a doctor for seeing and hearing things that weren't there, I kept it a secret because I thought I was being haunted by a demonic force. The thought of speaking to a doctor never even entered my mind, nor my mom's, and certainly not the prophetesses. But I had been conditioned all my life to believe those things were real, so of course it never occurred to me that they could be hallucinations. I'm glad I didn't listen to those crazy ladies, and I'm glad that there are people like you coming out with content like this to warn others about those "prophets" who claim to have answers given to them from the divine. I have a real, physical health condition, and it's so much easier to deal with the crazy symptoms now that I know what they are and that nothing bad will happen.
As soon as I read 'When it appeared, which was only at night in my room', there was an instant thought that this could be a disorder like sleep paralysis. I'm glad you've pinned the experience down and now have it in proportion. The kind of individual you describe here - urging you to burn possessions and magnifying your fears - are really the lowest of the low.
TheraminTrees yep, when I did some research on a disorder called "idiopathic hypersomnia" (thanks to my psychiatrist for suggesting I do that) everything suddenly made perfect sense. Growing up, I've always had vivid, long-lasting, intense, dreams almost every night that I'm able to recall every detail from and remember for years... I was taught that dreams are messages from God, so everyone (myself included) thought God had given me this gift to dream and communicate with him (even though many of my dreams were absolutely terror-filled, even apocalyptic...) The prophetesses said that my "gift" was in part why I was being targeted specifically at nighttime in bed. Of course, finally found out that nope: my "gift" of dreaming is just another symptom of the disorder.
The thing is, I knew they actually believed they were hearing from God. They believed they were really helping me. How sick is that?
lyndsie, you didn't say if you obeyed the ladies' instructions. You say you think they were "crazy", but was there even a part of you that thought they were nice and cared about you? Did you tell the "sleep disorder" doctor about your previous experience, or were you too embarrassed? People invest trust and respect in mainstream doctors for the same "comfort reasons" that they trust in the world view of their homes. All medicine is based on Alchemy for its original inspiration. Now you trust a drug peddler who thinks he or she can always get the outcome for their diagnosis! As for the seers that your mother brought to you (out of love and concern) if you didn't trust them enough to obey them, then the spirits they saw will be revelling in their "victory!" In that case, those demons will permanently claim you, now that advice against them has been rejected, and a day will come when nothing you take to treat your "symptoms" will work for you anymore! In this video, the speaker actually died of cholera, drinking dirty water. As he left his body, he actually met Jesus, and told him that He was a hallucination, what do you think happened after that?... czcams.com/video/xDSj3niXfw4/video.html
She's got "Preacher's Kid Syndrome", not a very difficult diagnosis at all! Look up the Simpsons character "Jessica Lovejoy" if you want to know what I'm talking about. Okay, I have to go over here now...
We can have order, not disorder when we are in harmony with God. How sad for lyndsie to have fallen out with her lovely Christian mom and slipped into skepticism. Calling the nice ladies "sick" is also a sad indication about the health of her soul. The "joyful spirit of a sound mind" really is the way to avoid all disorders, so quack doctors won't be taking all your money for their pills and potions. I found Jesus and received healing and God showed me Vitamin C. I would rather spend a small amount on that and eat well as He has showed me.
"In everyday terms, waiting for something that'll never happen is called 'wasting life'.
Prophets present it as a noble struggle called 'testing faith'."
This statement at 10:10 is brilliant.
Its funny how people forget that the original books of the new testament were written in archaic greek (koine greek). If they trully wanted to imitate that then thats the language they should've chosen.
Then again, koine greek is nowhere near as easy to learn and replicate as archaic english.
They will have to learn two languages then, because the Old Testament was written in Hebrew.
Im greek and we do learn them in school and it is pretty hard . But if i didn't know greek... That would be extremely more difficult to learn
You do know that Hebrew writers in ancient times also commonly used a modified Egyptian as a shorthand for quick writing? This is actually something found not too long ago.
Soothing narration in a high quality video with a cool discussion? HELL YES.
mythousandfaces That applies to all of his videos.
Yep, for what a whole decade now?
So that's how long it took you to accumulate a thousand+ sock puppet accounts?...
...not really a good idea to talk flippantly of Hell...ask Gavril: czcams.com/video/uOF7SFDf1u4/video.html
Been a while since someone tried to scare me with the ol' fire and brimstone.
*"What inference might one draw about the nature of God from a study of his works?"*
"That he doesn't exist."
And that Yahweh is a mass murderer of unborn babies, a bad designer of a vessel that is not seaworthy, a trickster, a liar, a fraud, a deceiver, and a psychopath.
In other words an example of the worst human qualities with no accountability for his crimes against humanity.
He has convinced his creations to worship him endlessly or spend eternity in hell.
This is a transmittable case of mental illness.
@@JamesRichardWiley
God is love!
(the perfect theistic argument)
@@k.o.5666 But mah God is love
@@panko6632 No mine!!
no, that it might be irrelevant
"The unintended byproduct of a completely different creation" puts me in mind of H.P Lovecrafts Azathoth and his chaotic spawnings and devourings.
When I was about 11 or 12 I was almost completely convinced that I was the next prophet for God, and did similar things as Dorothy and Bertha did, writing scribbling knowledge and speaking out loud (to myself) or writing down the random thoughts that flew through my head and treating them like a divine message. I was so convinced that I even told my younger sister that she would be my successor. Fortunately it didn't catch on, but I was genuinely convinced that this was actually happening. The only thing that kept me going the rest of the way into it was realizing that if God was giving me messages, they probably wouldn't be in the jolting, stuttering sort of tone of thought, voice, and writing that comes from the kind of spontaneity that was actually present. Probably the only time I used critical thinking in regards to religion before finding this channel.
This is so true! I was a member of Scientology in my 30's, and when I got to the TR4 level, my mind begged me to look around at the robotic responses we were all demanded to give. As a child I was abandoned by family and thus I gravitated towards cults like this. The more I questioned there approach absent of common sense and logic, each programmer assigned to me would shrug their shoulders and send another to try and persuade me to the teaching only to fail at their indoctrination . I finally left, but they followed me everywhere and I had to threaten them with bodily harm if they didn't stop, to which they finally gave up on me. I then investigated EST, and found the same thing, and quickly removed myself from that insanity also. Then while searching for a group to belong to beings I had no family, I joined the cult of Christianity . I remained there some 30 years in my delusion, until I couldn't any longer prove by my studies in science, biology, psychology, ancient history outside the confines of the church and Astro theology, to come to the conclusion I have been lied to and wasted half my life in it. I hope others watch these great videos to gain real freedom from the shackles of religious dogma and brain washing propaganda .
I hope you are proud of yourself, and I hope this inspires others
@@LokwandzaZubuko I do try to help others through what I have gone through and all the research I do about ancient history and anthropology.
@@allenquartermane6134 you aren't wrong about what you say, but the fact is that you did the right thing, since you weren't exposed to the truth, but surrounded by falsehood. Scientology is a lie, Christianity is false, and you were being logical in your approach. But what no atheist or anti-theist understands is that Islam is the truth that passes all the tests of logical and rational scrutiny, which is why people are afraid to bring it up. I tried to look into all other religions (Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism etc), and found fallacious errors within each one of them. So my point is that if you are unexposed to what is truth, then try and expose yourself to it (I presumed this based on your comment).
@@allittakesisonebadday4957 Thank you for your kind reply, since I wrote this 3 years ago I also investigated Islam, and found it too to be lacking the proof of a loving being that would put a stop to war, decease, insanity, and all the evil of humans against other humans. A real and true god can and should stop human misery, but so far have yet to see such. So for me I choose to avoid any god that requires blood sacrifice and remains in the shadows invisible and promotes slavery of the mind and soul. The only belief I have is to do good to all humans and live a proper moral life and hold to " What goes around, comes around". So if being a good human being isn't good enough for a god , than I choose not to follow it. All religions say their god is the true god, and that doesn't make logical sense to me, but if it gives you comfort I have no problem with that. Thank you once again and I wish you and your family a good life.
@@allenquartermane6134 I appreciate your kindness, I wish the same upon you and your family. I understand what you are saying, and am aware of this argument of what constitutes a "loving God". They will bring up points such as what you have brought up. But the first thing to understand, is that, none of these arguments disprove the existence of a God, since it is all based in moral subjectivity to begin with, and God is said to be morally objective, so such arguments are already incompatible. Secondly, you stated that you had found Islam to be lacking "proof" of a loving being, and the examples you gave are things such as war, decease, insanity, and evil amongst humans. You believe that a true God would stop and intervene in such human misery, which is understandable as I've said.
The first thing is to understand the purpose of life, and why we exist. In religion (and in Islam), life is a test to prove oneself and their submission to God, so that they are prepared for the hereafter and judgement day; we must actively try and do good whenever possible (which is what you said you wanted to do). If you understand this purpose, then this can only entail a humankind with the capacity of free-will. I believe that you think that you possess free-will; the capacity to do what you want, to have a choice in decision-making. Then it becomes transparent why God does not intervene; it's because he has given us this free-will. All suffering we see can be traced back to human intervention. This is what distinguishes the good from the evil; why would it be fair for God to intervene in human free-will and the desires of these humans that are undergoing trial? God will not stop anyone from initiating their free-will, whether it lead to a good or bad outcome. So God should not be held accountable for free-will-induced suffering of any kind. It doesn't make sense, since he is not the one who caused it, and it would be unfair for him to stop it.
_"A real and true god can and should stop human misery, but so far have yet to see such. So for me I choose to avoid any_
_god that requires blood sacrifice and remains in the shadows invisible and promotes slavery of the mind and soul...so if_ _being a good human being isn't good enough for a god , than I choose not to follow it"_
This is a dangerous sentiment, my friend. So I don't know whether you even are an atheist or an agnostic, but this is a destructive claim nonetheless. You cannot grant that God exists, and then go on to defy that God based on your own moral beliefs, since this God is by definition "all-loving", it makes no sense for you to hypothesize the existence, and then still engage in transgression. This ruins the whole purpose of convincing you that God exists, if you are an atheist, which It seems that I cannot say for certain. You must be willing to obey a God if it does exist, otherwise, you are acting in irrationality and defiance to the omnipotent and are willing to be doomed for hell. But despite this, God is all-loving by very definition, you cannot accept that the Islamic God exists, and then go on to manufacture your own definition and reason (which conflicts with the nature of God) for disobedience. It is like me saying "the Sun exists" and then refusing to assert that plasma exists, in concluding that: "the Sun is cold". This is illogical since by granting that the Sun exists, I cannot deny the nature of that Sun by saying that it is cold, since by definition, the Sun is made of plasma (which is extremely hot). In the same way, you cannot hypothesize that if this monotheistic God were to exist, then you won't follow that God because it isn't loving; the nature of that God is by definition, loving.
I didn't get what you meant by requiring "blood sacrifice", this is usually indicative of a satanic deity, and does not characterize any of the monotheistic Gods. I don't know if this is a result of inexposure, or some misunderstanding of the core principles and concept of Islam (or any monotheistic religion for that matter). No blood sacrifice is required.
Furthermore, it is crucial to understand that all of us humans, are slaves. Whether you choose to accept this or not, it is a part of reality. We are slaves of something or someone. We are slaves to our own desires (wants), and sometimes overlook the actualization of such desires, as power, when It is worship. Are you sure that your desires are worthy of your slavery? Why is it that these things own you, and it is merely an illusion that you own them (in reference to David Thoreau)? One thing's for certain, I'd rather submit myself as a slave to the one who deserves worship, the omnipotent, all-merciful creator of the universe, and break the chains of unwarranted service, than to pursue an illusion.
I must add on, that I noticed you said _"The only belief I have is to do good to all humans and live a proper moral life"_ .
This reminded me of a quote from David Thoreau:
_"Do not be too moral. You may cheat yourself out of much life. Aim above morality. Be not simply good; be good for_ _something"_
So the "proper moral life" you seem to be living, may not be proper and may just be a lie, since it seems to lack purpose. One should be good for something, moral for something. It seems that your moral perception is clouding your judgement to what constitutes a "loving god". This is precisely one of the reasons that I find this sort of argument incompatible with "debunking" any prophet or religion. To sum it up, something is only good, if it is good in the eyes of God.
Personally, I find the "breeding the ultimate organism" kind of awesome. God: "Ok everyone, you can fight it out, or you can f*** it out. Doesn't matter. I expect there to be a xenomorph-level super organism by the end of this."
Wasn't that basically how Doomsday was created in the Superman comics?
Yeah, it could be this is just a giant Sandbox Game where we're left at our own devices xD
There's a game called Super Worldbox.. you should check it out.
Why? That organism isn't going to be you.. just someone else who can kick you ass even easier.
@@dimbulb23 My answer to that is: If you want the weirdest, darkest shit, listen to a fan of The Sims or look up the Top Atrocities committed by Dwarf Fortress players.
Both are (mostly) considered 'god' games. You'll be surprised at how dark the stuff can get, and how shallow the reasons can be.
I love your outro music! I see in the credits that it is an original piece! You certainly have a lot of talents! Research, narration, artwork, script writing, audio & video editing, and music composition & performance, plus managing your YT channel, patreon, etc.!
Cheers Donna!
So, many people will still defend their belives even if they were proven wrong, because they want to validate their lost time?
Thats kinda sad, but explains why so many people just ignore facts that dont fit in their world view...
Same for people who arent religious, lots of times they get proved wrong but still defend their belief, so whats your point?
@@haha-sg9mx tbh I dont recall what point I was trying to make 3 years ago, but I think I meant beliefs in general not just religious
@@haha-sg9mx the existence of god is inherently unprovable. Meaning there has never been an argument that disproves naysayers.
@@haha-sg9mx Nobody's proved me wrong. Religious people: "Look at the trees! They're so beautiful certainly a god must've made them. I have faith!" That's about the depth of a religious argument.
Can't believe I've been waiting two months for part 2
I'm currently dealing with an end-of-life experience in my family.
I am so sorry to hear that. Please know you are one of my most respected youtubers.
I'm sorry to hear that, friend.
Thank you.
Thank you Tranquil.
what type of cruel god gives his followers the gift of intelligence only to demand ignorance from them?
quotable
Seems like a yaldabaoth thing to do tbh
Excellent video. It's criminal that you have so few views. This video deserves at least a few million.
Fjord Hassion I know this is old, but the comment was a compliment and a joke referring to an instinct that makes us want to reward people for contributing high quality work or wisdom to the group. I’m not an expert in this sort of thing, but I wonder if the instinct evolved to reward behavior that contributed to the success and survival of the tribe.
@@fjordhassion8295 What OP meant by "criminal" is that the fact that this video has so few views is truly regretable.
Fjord Hassion What?
@@fjordhassion8295
What are you mumbling about?
@@fjordhassion8295
Again what are you blabbering about?
You are not answering my question.
I enjoy very much how you don't only speak about religion, but also apply these philosphies to social and political matters.
I was a Mormon up until I was 19, and hearing perspective from someone was an outsider their whole lives is enlightening. Thank you for pointing out the flaws in the stories, it's always a surprise to hear things you didn't know or hadn't considered before
I have finally managed to binge your channel. I think I have fallen asleep at least two times while watching your vids - your voice is insanely calming.
Your language is clear and concise. Beautifully worded.
One of my best CZcams channels.
i love how you don't use insults and calmly use reason.we need more like you
Theramintrees just debunked the Creationists theory of Intelligent Design
Don't give them the credit of calling that shit a theory.
Your presentation is always absolutely profound. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
Ohrami Patchouli Knowledge!
Weeb
BitchChill self hating weeb
A lot of time and effort well spent.
Thank you.
Thanks for making the prophet T pose
Man, what a motley collection of charlatans. To this day it amazes me that so many billions can't see their own religions in these terms - as crude,primitive stories cast into stone by the vagaries of history. When I look out at magnificence of the universe and the wonders of life, I fully understand the religious and spiritual mindset that just _knows_ there is something transcendent out there to explain it. But why, oh why, could it possibly be any of the "great" mono- and poly-theistic religions, which are just so clearly the products of feeble human minds in the face of the magnificence of the cosmos? Even if some esoteric argument were one day to persuade to believe in a supreme being, I'd be at a complete loss as to what exactly to believe in, because it's quite clear looking around me that _no one_ has, or has ever had, the answer.
Oh, and wonderful video TT, though that goes without saying. Thank you for making it!
So well said my friend! Religion is the plastic flower. Science is the genuine rose.
actually its the opposite
I believe the brain has only had a mental modeling process that specifically relies on reasons and answers to make sense of anything. What is ultimately the most reasonable to me is that there isn't any reasons or answers. Its all open to interpretation!
An interesting quartet of commenters. LivingDino... you are alive, living as you put it, because life was breathed into you, from a Living Source. Why not look for this source, at least to say thank you? You would rather see the source as not capable or inclined to communication, because doing that lets us off the hook for gratitude? Maybe this is how you handle your own relationship with your parents who gave you life. Jesus is called The Word because his 'co-ordinate' establishes another being to relate to the first co-ordinate of the Father in Heaven. He had to come to Earth to set up that co-ordinate for us to adopt. Without that set up, you are excluded from Heaven Contact by your choice. Such a person end ups alone in the Outer Darkness. The Universe can never be greater than the One who made it but The Creator doesn't want you to be an "ant" in the middle of it all. He doesn't want us to be scared, but sentient and humble, and able to be a constructive part of it all. He writes the instructions for doing that on the "tablets" of our hearts, and those of us not gifted with the sense of Poetry to understand that analogy are descending into less sentience...a sad direction. The irony is that evil people sense they are 'losin' it', and grasp at the shreds of their sentience more and more desperately, as they value what they can see with their bodies, over what they sense in their souls! They let Pride immediately step in to fill the gaps that are forming at an alarming rate, from the time they tell their first lie. Have any of you seen the movie, "Galaxy Quest", with the noble and friendly aliens who have no concept of dishonesty? I laughed at Theramin's 'plastic flower' analogy, (a little Poetry still flows, eh? :) Both sorts of flowers are incredible in their way, and interesting at the negative-towards-Humanity mindset that has a bent to scoff at what WE come up with and elevates that which 'invented itself'. See the Pride Flow there? But who really benefits from it when your non-plastic body finally lets you down? The King of All Who Are Haughty mentioned in the oldest known "religious" text: no, he's not even called Satan...look it up in Job 41. This being will be your ruler forever if you don't choose a stronger and better King, who rules the Kingdom of Love as opposed to Leviathan's Kingdom of Machismo!
You're one of the only CZcamsrs that gets a preemptive thumbs up from me!
Andrew Curley - Same here.
Yes, he, his brother and AntiCitizenX are THE best at this! Can't express how much respect I have for this man.
Andrew Curley Thank you ;8)
I get the support, but it's not very objective tbh. Whatever boats your float, though
+Modular Moose
If I watch the video, and it turns out to be rubbish, I'll retract my like. However, I find all of TheraminTree's videos to always be of such high quality, that I feel extremely confident in granting a tentative like before I even have the pleasure of consuming his content.
These videos have an enormous amount of information delivered in the most unique way. Having them to watch and listen to makes my life more enjoyable. It's a rare find for sure. Everyone should open their minds and listen to them.
As an ex-Mormon I have to say your accuracy, both in pronunciation and fact, is impeccable.
Much appreciated Brian. I took my information from Mormon sources. While there wasn't always agreement regarding detail - and sometimes wild disagreement - I've given what came through in my research as the common threads/accounts.
Wow, thanks for the reply!! I served an LDS mission to the Philippines from '97 to '99 and taught Sunday school for many years. I took years of LDS Institute courses on Church history. It is amazing how damning their own white washed versions of history are - if you turn a skeptical eye to their spin. Few do.
Agreed! I also appreciate this analysis in this video of the problems Joseph Smith encountered with the 116 pages. My journey out of the LDS church began with reading the essays. Learning things had been hidden from me my entire 36 years in the church opened my eyes enough to research further and it only took a couple of weeks before I was done for good.
I feel compelled to mention that Lafayette Ron Hubbard used his second name and only ever went by L. Ron or Ron.
I watched one of his 'lectures' the other day . He talked for about 20 minutes but said absolutely nothing of any consequence or meaning.
Also worth noting: In addition to founding Dianetics and Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard also wrote several books of science fiction, which Scientologists don't even claim to be true stories. Most non-Scientologists, even those who love sci-fi, regard Hubbard's novels as worthless.
@@darreljones8645 He was a prodigious pulp fiction author in many genres .
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_works_of_L._Ron_Hubbard
I'm gonna go by g. Pernell for now on because of L.r.H that moron lol
@@DrTWG , I've read a ton of sci-fi and what I've seen of his was word-vomit.
As a Scientology watcher, the fact that you call Hubbard by his first name Lafayette (which he took such pains to hide) is incredibly hilarious. Well done
I have read about this, the Dorothy cult where God doesn't show up. In the story it emphasize the one member who left. When Dorothy says, God is please and will not bring about the apocalypse the guy gets up walks over to the hat stand, grabs his hat and walks out for good. That guys is an inspiration to me.
A rare treat to get a video from this channel. But always top tier stuff.
Once again, brilliant as usual. I could listen to you, forever. I think along these lines, but you get into the meat of it with hard work in editing how you are going to discuss it. Great planning, great writing and excellent communication. Never stop.
Hey truvelocity ;8) Thanks for your lovely message
Thanks for another excellent video, TheraminTrees! I eagerly await Part 2. You make your points calmly, thoroughly, and most of all, logically, all of which are unfortunately rare on CZcams.
On a more technical note, I liked how you fused your 3D and 2D animation styles in this video, especially in the bit where you discussed the claim of special knowledge. The way the generic prophet figure looks 2D when still and 3D when being flipped x degrees was a really cool effect.
As a former mormon, still married to a mormon who wants to raise our infant daughter into Mormonism, I really appreciate your insight. I love my wife and am committed to her, but I need a good balance to the indoctrination that will surely follow. I hope in teaching her to critically think for herself, she can avoid the many pitfalls I fell into. I hope you can share similar insights of how to make it in a "mixed faith" marriage like my own (I'm 100% athiest). I love and respect my wife, and she loves and respects me. It's a good marriage, with ups and downs as with any, but I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this, which makes things hard. I'm committed to standing by her, out of love and duty (not God). But I still feel great pressure to allow and even participate in practices I don't feel are healthy, especially for our child. What should I do?
I love your videos, but I feel like they are focused on pointing out what is often wrong with our thinking, and how we're manipulated into believing things that are false, or against our happiness or best interests. It's incredibly insightful. But I would definitely like to hear more on what to do once we've reached that conclusion. How can we move on with our lives, especially with people who continue to believe and practice what we clearly see as wrong and unhealthy, but also beyond reason? How do we have good relationships in spite of this? How do we place ourselves in positions to affect positive change?
Your calm voice and thoughts are really useful to help me focus on drawing.
I've just stumbled across this channel, but three minutes in I'm already impressed! This kind of serious, rational, even-handed (and, most importantly, calm) response to religious claims is exceedingly rare, and so far well done. Bravo, and you've gained a new subscriber!
I have a friend whose deep into conspiracy theories, I've always thought of it as being almost a religious group because he seems to act the same way as other religious people I know and especially the religious community I grew up with... I can't help but think about him when watching these videos because everything said is exactly how he acts and is, and I can see what a horrible existence he, and other conspiracy theorists must be having, though I wouldn't know even the beginning of how to help other than picking at his brain to make him question his ideas, though now it's at the point where he has figured out the things I can question (more scientific related topics) and only mentions things I don't know anything about (more political related topics) and steers the conversation in directions that I find it difficult to comment on
Me and my five month old daughter enjoy listening to your work while I cook. Thank you for doing what you do!
I just found your channel and I'm so glad that I did! Very insightful and easy to understand
I recently discovered your channel and I'm now binging all your videos.
Keep up the good work!
this is the second time that I'm watching all your videos. Even though I've been skeptical all my life and a militant atheist since I was 10, there are still more insights that I gain from them. And the production quality is downright exceptionally professional! Thank you so much for making these amazing videos!
Religion wants to make you feel, not think
And parents wants you to think feelings are useless
Great work! Nice production values and research, as well as sound arguments. And you managed to read your script with fluency - something a remarkable number of people manage to screw up, even when it's their own words.
Thank you.
I grew up Mormon. I was always a huge fan of animals and science too. Around the age of 17, something was pointed out to me: the Book of Mormon had horses in it. This was impossible as horses have never once been native to the America’s. That was my breaking point.
With all of the other flaws though, when it comes to Mormonism, they were able to build up a solid defense, which was Satan. Satan hated the “true church” being spread. So whenever a question came up such as “why did god choose Joseph smith if he was not a good person”, the answer is “the worldly people might think that, but that’s just because Satan wants you to think that. God works differently from us. And we can’t understand why he did certain things until we die.”
This is the manipulation they do that very effectively stomps out any doubt by trying to say “well logically, Satan would want that.” I’m glad I got out lol
I really dont have words to describe how amazing and eye opening your content is..
Fantastic video and analysis, thanks!
Waiting for part two. Please do Jesus, Moses and Mohammed.
Welcome back!!! My brain was starving, your videos are the nourishment that my mind needs! 😊
Always love seeing a Theramintrees video. You provide since many years some of the most clever arguments on youtube, and always in a uniquely captivating way.
Cheers Robert - I'm glad you've found the work engaging ;8)
"Clever arguments" based on false assumptions lead us to the baloney zone.
Don't be fooled by empty rhetoric.
When you look into history, you will find that some of the greatest deceptions, such as the Ponzi scheme, have been made with clever arguments.
Militaries also don't like people who think.
Battles can't be won if soldiers won't obey commands.
@@JamesRichardWiley ...nor can wars be started to begin with.
Yes, and while you do see a lot of problems in militaries similar to those in religion, they are authoritarian to the end of winning a war, not the enslavement of their soldiers. Incentives are deliberately removed from the picture and soldiers have rights and carefully thought out legal protections and liabilites when they sign on the dotted line. Ideally, militaries should be honest and fight strategic wars to the achievement of >>Political
@@vincentheartland2088 "careful safeguards" my ass. Troops get used as guinea pigs.
@Wisest 1 straw man much?
Beautiful work. A podcast I once followed said Lucy Harris destroyed a few pages of the alleged magic stone revelations to see whether Smith was a fraud. Joseph did indeed react as if he couldn't recreate the text.
Thanks. Lucy Harris seems to've been the prime suspect for a lot of folks. If she had done it, it would make her a kind of nineteenth-century James Randi - introducing a simple, unexpected obstacle to test the candidate's claim.
I like how you make little objects of things you are talking about sometimes, really helps with the pacing of the vedio to get something new to look at
The painting analogy at the beginning is fantastic! Some excellent quotes here: Umberto Eco's at teh beginning, and the "Those who would ask you not to think are NEVER your friends." Good stuff.
Just watched part one and part two. Thank you for this video. I am newley out of the Mormon faith and am finding my own path to walk and what to believe. This has helped me a lot.
eey! well done :D
I'm glad you found a new path. I've found a path from religion and the view that God is a cruel perfectionist... Because I realised that was just a worldview created by the actions of my father and mother. Now I've turned to Jesus and realised he's a kind of father who wants the best for me. From religion to relationship. It really does work. God died for me. ( And you too) and he's desperate to walk life's path with you... In a relationship. Forget religion choose Jesus. He believes in you
@@fusionlotus you’re confusing… Jesus is part of a religion.
The very fact that people in certain religious groups aren't taught to question everything is magnified when someone like me could have spoken biblical prose and "God-given" observations and be given submission and praise because of them. My sunday school teacher used to praise me just for the beauty of my prayers and I'm pretty sure my Mom had a point when she asked me if the things I told her were meant to provoke her and weren't genuine. She was right!
Thank you so much for making these!
I was excited for part 2 but just found out I'm here only 3 days after this video was posted. Drat!
Can't wait for it. I learned some new things here.
I was mormon once as a child, the first thing that creeped me out was the bishop had an interview with me and asked all sorts of personal questions. I refused to answer as it was none of his business. The next thing in Sunday school was that I asked too many questions about the veil, it didn’t make sense. So I kept asking, the Sunday school teacher slapped me across the face and told me to just accept it. It was embarrassing, and the other kids started to shun me. Which didn’t bother me too much because I didn’t know any of the kids anyway since we lived 20 miles from the church. When I told my mother what happened I never had to go to church again. I didn’t have any connections at the church besides my mother and everyone was strangers to me which would make indoctrination very hard because there wasn’t anyone familiar to look up to or try to emulate.
It wasn’t until a few years ago that my mother was injured in one of the callings from the church, that I intervened. She broke an ankle and injured her neck in a fall. The bishop had given this calling to her as god supposedly told him it was for her to do.
I was furious. Did they pay her medical bills? Nope all they did was put some oil on her head and put her name in a temple. After all the tithing she had done all these years they did absolutely nothing. The church has a mall, why not a hospital for free care? It’s all about the money.
I didn’t have to read the Book of Mormon to my mother we just went through the Bible and I showed her how disgusting this god really was. She opened her eyes finally and now is not part of any Christianity or any religion for that matter.
I told her don’t worry about the question of why we are here, nobody knows and I suspect we just are and there is no reason.
Dude, what the hell -- your sunday school teacher actually did that?? Geez-- what an awful person. I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences with it all
Matreats :P it wasn’t that bad. It woke me up. There was a member who molested children in that church. Nothing like that happened to me. The church member was caught and went to jail for twenty years. The last straw for my mother was when she found out after this members release from prison they let him back into the church and gave him the priesthood in the mormon church.
THGraham oh wow
I’d love to hear what happened there. Of course I don’t condone actions like that and that man deserved his years in jail, but I’m certain they wouldn’t have restored his priesthood without solid reason and without knowing he was completely and honestly ready to come back.
Matreats :P he may have paid his debt to society, but not to the victims, they will have scares their entire life. Crimes like theft, even drug use are one thing to be reformed of, but children abused is entirely different. If some god is telling the bishop he is now good after years of abuse within the church, that’s not a god I would even consider worthy of being worshipped. The church is a loop hole for pedafiles to use to gain access children again. I’m an atheist, I have no need for a god, I’m just glad my mother is no longer giving money to this church or putting up with such a blatant scam.
THGraham I understand why you feel that way and respect your experience. Like I said, I don’t know the full story, so I won’t pretend I do, but I know that that kind of behavior is definitely, absolutely a sin. If he was reinstated into the church, it wasn’t on a whim and it definitely wasn’t a misunderstanding. If the bishop made a mistake, he doesn’t have the power of the priesthood. Someone with ill intentions is nowhere close to being worthy of using that power. God knows that man’s intentions and true heart, something we can’t really truly know because we aren’t him. If this guy took on the priesthood falsely, that will be his own undoing after the second coming. Maybe the bishop knew what he was doing, maybe he didn’t, but regardless, any and all people who prey on children will get what they deserve in due time.
A powerful hook is illness, especially chronic or incurable ones.
Another hook: being alone with no friends, feeling emarginated from social groups.
That can push a person to meet other people thinking that they might be friends if they have a similar mindset and situation. In less time you can think of you and your new "friends" are in the web of some "guru" of any kind, not necessarily religious.
It can be spiritual, psychological, self-improvement...
I guess life itself, families, friendship rules and the social system is so poorly designed to fulfill natural human needs that no one can be blame for his/her attempt to make their lives better somehiw, rather we all deserve to be helped in a honest way.
These videos are fantastically written, thanks for making them.
Wealth of knowledge and insight forces me to watch your uploads multiple times.
Fantastic video as always. As someone who was raised Mormon, the Book of Abraham papyri contradiction was the nail in the coffin of my faith. Actually it was both the nail and the hammer. I had not learned of most of the other problems with Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, because I was a good Mormon and tried not to ask questions which would get me into trouble. It's easy to encourage people not to think when thinking casts light into dark corners full of dirt that they don't really want to see. But some facts, plain and simple, are hard to ignore.
Although the Book of Abraham was the final piece I needed to call it quits, the "global flood" story was what brought me right up to the ledge. Anybody who has the least bit of interest in how the world works will struggle to compromise the reality of ecology, biology, geology, geography, meteorology, and basic physics with the fable of a global flood. Most of my life I reconciled it as being primarily anecdotal, or perhaps consisting of a local flood which flooded the world only that the author knew of; their "world" and not the entire Earth. But that apologetic excuse is directly at odds with what the Mormon prophets teach- that it was a literal and complete global flood.
I simply could not resolve that conflict and it wore down my faith until my discovery of the Book of Abraham fraud, which ended my inner conflict and I was left with the simple resolution that it was all just a fabrication. Not an easy resolution mind you, but a much more simple one.
Yes; that Mormons preach it was "the Earth's baptism" is a particular problem, because how do Mormons baptize? Full immersion--no part of the body left uncovered by water. It would make no sense to apologize away the great flood as being a partial flood given this understanding of Mormon baptism.
I was also raised as a Mormon, and there's another big reason Mormons believe in a global flood since they claim that the Garden of Eden was in America and that Noah was the one who originally brought people from America to the Middle East. Which is supposed to make sense.
@Savant You stated that "'As someone who was raised Mormon, the Book of Abraham papyri contradiction was the nail in the coffin of my faith.'' The anti-Book of Abraham info (books, websites, You Tube videos) was SOUNDLY, THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED in 2014!
Meeting Jesus makes sense though, which is what you should all be doing instead of discussing cults. It's a waste of time to examine all the possible counterfeit sorts of notes there could ever be...just study the Original and you'll identify the fakes.
czcams.com/video/uOF7SFDf1u4/video.html I dare you to watch this.
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One of the really good, relevant and important messages. Keep up the good work.
You do not know how glad I am to see a new video of yours.
"People who don't want you to think are never your friend." Except good hypnotists. Sometimes they are bad but those are not good hypnotists.
A hypnotist will try to make changes to stop/change how to think for short term or on a very specific set of circumstances. These changes are requested by the one hypnoticed.
A prophet will try to stop/change how to think for every aspect of life. These changes are forced upon the believer from an authoritarian position.
This is not even remotely the same thing.
@TheraminTrees. One of the things that made me glad I left evangelical,fundamentalist Christianity is the story I was told by a lady who contacted me to attain information about our family tree. She told me that a guy in her Sunday school class reported that he'd been told that he had metastatic prostate cancer and had only six months to live. Instead of voicing shock and sympathy, ppl in the group expressed jealousy that he would reach heaven before them.
That story echoes a sentiment that runs through so much religious perversity doesn't it. When you believe death is a stepping stone to something greater, what reason is there to value life?
@@TheraminTrees ti sure does..but when I talked about it with my mom, she said "yeah, they talk about how they can't wait, but give one of em a head cold and watch em run straight to the doctor at the first throat tickle.
Reminds me of a joke my mom's pastor told once. There was a packed revival,and the visiting pastor asked if everyone was ready to go to Heaven..he noted that one old man was the only one who didn't raise his hand, so he made it a point to ask the old man "Are you saved?" when he got to him in the recession line "it's just that I noticed you didn't hold your hand up when I asked about Heaven" **The old man chuckled** "Padre" he said "I'm 70,and been a walking' with the lord ever since I was 10...I"m ready to go to Heaven..I just thought you might be trying to get a busload up for tonight!"
Beautiful, eloquent, and cogent. Thank you, as always.
Cheers rationalmuscle.
You sir, are a breath of fresh sense! The way you present your message is clear and to the point. Anyone with the slightest critical thinking skills would simply understand this whole presentation. Great work!
There was an old janitor named Eddie, and he came thru our lab daily to collect garbage. He asked me what I was working on and, for fun. I tried to feed him a bunch of BS to see if I could fake him.
He just looked at me and said: "You can't fool me. I'm too dumb." Brilliant!
Thank you for covering mormanism, having broken out of its shell, im so glad your bringing this all to light!
Your music is deeply sorrowful, but simultaneously hopeful and joyous. Gives me goosebumps.
Thanks - those are the multiple feelings I was working with during the composition/recording, so for me, it's great when someone picks up on that stuff and feeds it back.
TheraminTrees your music, and this piece in particular, has moved me to tears. There's so much abuse that shields itself under the guise of virtuous faith and yet there's so much hope for change and growth in the future. This was a truly moving composition, Trees.
Cheers Tim. Funny isn't it - some folks report no substantial emotional reaction to music. I know someone personally who reports appreciating nice melodies - but there's no 'feeling' in it. For me, it's the opposite - it's all about emotion.
I love the hovering baby character. It’s so effective at conveying the youthful inquiring mind of the intellect.
As an Ex-Mormon who has spent a copious amount of time researching everything and pondering on all the logical issues, you still managed to present logical insights I had not previously considered. I'm impressed! Just one of many reasons I happily support your channel.
You're both up in the night.
So can you explain a little? You met Jesus Christ personally? I did, He is BROWN! (:D
@Richard Holmes: And you're a nobody on the internet.
Hey Justin. I'm chuffed to have offered any value at all to someone like yourself who's thoroughly versed in these issues and comes at them from personal experience. I put it down to the fact there are just so many angles of 'wrong' to choose from here. As always, thanks for your support ;8)
The thing you notice about the Lord is His Compassion that He telepathises without needing words. People despise emotions, but without them all is dreary.
Where did the inspiration for your channel name come from? "Theramin trees" just sounds so psychedelic and whimsical, I love it
Awesome video! So well researched, organized, and presented!
Think twice. Google ''Book of Abraham Debunks anti-LDS Lies'' That video DEBUNKS THAT ANTI-BOOK OF ABRAHAM INFO that TheraminTrees is using.
I'm happy to see you now have 60K subs!
"Lucy Harris smart smart smart
Martin Harris dum."
as an exmormon, I'm very happy to see this
Great video. Can't wait for part 2.
In general I think that one of the biggest things that makes large religions so successful are the common logic truths they stand on. Any person would agree that abstinence until marriage would ensure that unwanted pregnancies and unstable families don’t happen (especially during times where contraceptives don’t exist). Any person Would agree that being nice to people and your parents will have good outcomes. Most people prefer to hang around those who don’t steal or murder. But now that god says it’s a commandment I’m going to give him and his church all the credit for “blessings” I’ve been given even though they are natural consequences for good deeds. And then those church leaders can take it further and make other commandments to benefit the church and everyone will blindly follow because if some of them work then all of them work.
Yes, exactly. Morality is basically a concept. We developed this concept to ensure better harmony, stability and survival of our species. So it is quite obvious why some morals like not killing people would produce more stable societies and ensure better survival. Now if your religion landed on most of those Morals that produce good results, chances are it will flourish.
And back then, due to the lack of knowledge, attributing unexplainable things to the works of divine beings and deities was a common way of trying to explain how something works. So certain people saw an opportunity there. Instead of projecting their own personal morals and world-views, why not present them as divine? It's not ME telling you [this and that] is good and [this and that] is bad.. it's GOD saying this - and given that people were less knowledgeable and more superstitious back in the day, it worked like a charm.
Problem is, while some of them did have good intentions with religion (to improve the Morals and build a better society), others literally exploited and abused it, to justify wars, or for personal gains for example. And this is so painfully obvious in some places.
I have always been a critical thinker, looking back I could see the problems and contradictions of the LDS church even as a child, I was born into a Mormon family where my Mother was a Codependent big time due to her growing up in a narcissistic home
I really believe that since I was a critical thinker that I was able to leave that Cult at 16, best decision I ever made
Sounds like everyone is leaving. I don’t see donating to unicef $100 per month a problem though. No need to even give to churches, just donate to organisations, no conflict of interests.
One need look no further than the words of my avatar when recognizing that all persons presumed to have been prophets were, and are, little more than charlatans and frauds.
“It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication-after this, it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him.”
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794
Great stuff! Lots of details I had no knowledge of. Thank you!
As someone who was raised in the Mormon faith, I'm very glad to see Mormonism discussed in your video. More information needs to get out there, so less people will get trapped into something they don't fully understand. If my parents knew what Joseph Smith was really like before they joined the Mormon religion, then I don't think they would have joined.
I still can't believe people today make a lifelong commitment and tithe to a community that worships a publicly known fraud.