degrading love - part one | how religions distort 'love' [cc]
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2016
- A two-part exploration of the false 'gift' of 'divine love'.
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
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opening quote:
You have nothing to teach me about ‘love’ if the book from which you take your definitions demands, glorifies or in any way promotes subjugation, suffering, shunning or scapegoat sacrifice.
To call this brand of degradation ‘masochism’ seems unjust. The discerning masochist has the wisdom to use safe words.
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subtitles
Bulgarian: Djeitko
Slovak: Peter Ščigulinský
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Chapters:
Part 1:
1 ‘Gigantic, gigantic, gigantic - a big, big love.’
-looking at how false love is invented through arbitrary life events and arbitrary physical sensations - and some of the problems that invention brings.
2 ‘So slow down, slow down. You’re taking me over.’
-exposing the parasitic nature of fake parent gods.
Part 2:
3 ‘And I’d rather give it all up than fall for your love.’
-exploring the slave mentality inherent in 'divine love'.
4 ‘Taste the whip, in love not given lightly. Taste the whip, now bleed for me.’
-reflecting on the glorification of 'sacrifice' as an indication of love.
5 ‘Things get damaged, things get broken.’
-unpacking the practice of shunning.
6 ‘I feel well enough to tell you what you can do with what you’ve got to offer.’
-discussing the process of healing from the degraded parody of 'love' taught by the major world religions.
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geese in flight
• Goose Chase - Attenbor...
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'Revival of Religious Learnings' volume 4, p.276.
Al-Ghazali
-PDF of vol. 4 available at:
www.ghazali.org/books/ihya-v4.pdf
-online translation available at:
ghazali.org/ihya/english/ihya-...
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Hadith quote:
‘It is reported on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah said: None of you is a believer till I am dearer to him than his child, his father and the whole of mankind.’
muflihun.com/muslim/1/71
www.sunnah.com/muslim/1/76
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music © TheraminTrees
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"Let me in so that I can save you!"
"From what?"
"From what I will do to you if you don't let me in."
Snagabott ... yourself?🤔
Congratulations, you made no sense at all.
;)
@@eclipsesolar8345 The speaker is God(Jesus, usually) and while no gods(or their followers) ever state it that blatantly, it is a fair way to express the message nonbelievers hear from believers.
@@zemorph42 yeah, I got it completely.
Let me in (to your heart)
Why?
So I can save you so I don't have to choose to send you to hell!
classic jebus knock knock joke
I feel euphoria when I'm painting, I should worships my paint tubes.
God comes in three forms. The paint. The brush. And the canvas
Justa Peasant That sounds deep
Isn't that what I was supposed to do?
I feel happy when playing games
I must worship lord tachanka
same. my graphics tablet is my ultimate deity
When I was religious, I often felt God's love as a deeply comforting wave of euphoria. I knew I could feel this anytime I prayed a certain way; I could access it and just feel this love. When I was struggling with my religion I had to know- I had to experiment. So I prayed the same exact way, but this time I didn't pray to any god; I just "prayed" to my own brain asking to feel that same love, and I got the exact same euphoria. That was when I knew that I had only ever been talking to myself every time I had ever prayed. I wanted to feel loved by something bigger than myself, so part of my brain granted me that desire by throwing a rush of endorphins and Oxytocin my way. I understand why it is so hard for many religious people to deny this feeling, because the feeling is very real. But it simply isn't real evidence of anything more than your brain's response to your deep desire to feel loved. This is why people of all religions often witness the same experiences when they pray to their own respective gods.
Praying to your own brain - I like it ;8) As you say, shows that it's indeed a self-administered rush.
Savant exactly. When feelings are cited as an evidence of God's existence, I feel a pang. Feelings are evidence of a working brain and chemical reactions in that brain.
Yep. I have also done this. Christianity is the most delusional form of self love that there is.
Meditation has the same effects as prayer and the technique is similar too 💁♀️
It's kind of eerie reading this, I'd done literally the exact thing to myself.
What started out feeling like some beautiful discovery and revaluation became incredibly stressful. If I'd somehow earned this being's love, whatever it was, What if I lost that love? What would *that* feeling look like?
Every time I was in a stressful situation I'd pray- and those prayers were often over 50% apologies for not existing better, basically. This wasn't because of any scripture or anything, just the raw stress of the sheer power this being apparently would have to have. I'd take every little thing as some divine sign. Had some trouble getting the car to start today? clearly you shouldn't head to work today, ect. It's disturbing to think about how many little dumb choices I'd made because I was over analyzing everything.
God's love is... hot and explosive? Kinky.
Kali Southpaw now im imagining heaven in a different way ;)
it tastes kind of salty
A copious mooneyshot of infinite affection.
I couldn't even feel gods love when he put it in me
Make no mistake - It takes all the fun out of kink.
Anybody else remember being surrounded by people crying?
...looking around like, "Did I miss something?"
My family goes to a black baptist church where they scream, cry, run, and roll around on the floor and shit
@@kellei9h yeah, I never got why people get so hysterical.
They didn't give you what they're taking 😁
Yep
A core memory.
Can you feel it now Mr. Krabs?
That’s what I thought when I saw the thumbnail lol 😂😂😂😂
I'm really feeling it!
*CAN YOU FEEL IT NOW MR. KRABS???*
@@justswift5369 Shulk: I'm really feeling it!
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well.
I created an inferno of agony and misery, but I love you.
Actually Lucifer made Hell when he was kicked out of heaven...
That's like a person with open arms, ready to embrace you. its just that he has a knife in each hand. How do we respond to that
@@anononnymouse2795 god is almighty standing in oppostion to him is impossible as hed crush you without putting up any effort.
@@anononnymouse2795 no, there is a specific verse in the bible that goes into details on how god made hell specifically for the angels that rebeled against him. But god is apparently sending a LOT of humans there as well for merely existing I guess... What a sweet god you worship
But wasn't the inferno a fall from an original ideal state? Maybe we created the inferno.
god's love is like;
- an elevator, it can't take heavy loads (of criticism)
- a volcano, it's destructive
- the sun, it gives you cancer
- a rock, god loves rocks, have you read how many people in the bible were stoned to death?
I know right?
I thought the same thing! I paused the video and thought:
Elevator. Made by humans and you can get stuck in it?
Volcano. Destroys entire cities
Sun. Everything is supposed to revolve around it and it’s millions of miles away
Rock. Silent and inanimate.
"a rock, god loves rocks, have you read how many people in the bible were stoned to death?"
No, but I did read how many people were shot in Chicago yesterday and how many "products of conception" were thrown in the trash last year. Does that count?
Bill Asbury Is that supposed to be a witty retort or something?
@@cephalonblue5991 Not at all. The first line in my response, from someone trying to be funny, is the "witty" diatribe.
No, I don't know who many people in the Bible were stoned. So what? Each society can adjudicate capital punishment whether that be by stones, electricity, chemicals or a shooting. That is the function of the state.
What I AM focusing on is the lack of attention that is being focused on Marxist rioters in our streets and the abortion industry's wholesale massacre (to which we are now insensitive) now totaling 50,000,000 lives ended. That's not a joke.
If the children are not safe......soon you won't be either.
My dad left our family 5 years ago to "serve the Lord" due to the verses in the Bible about hating your family and loving Jesus most. 4 years later, I became an atheist. Now, today, my mom comes to me, sobbing about how she doesn't understand how Jesus, her loving God, could say something like that. She is suffering acutely as a result of religion and the exact type of degrading love described in these videos and it makes me furious.
My mother, like so many people I know, claim that God is the only reason they haven't ended their own lives. Yet when they describe "God's Love" the describe it as the final person in the video above, as fear and as pain. Some have sensed the degrading nature of the love and embrace it for reasons I cannot comprehend anymore.
Last Sunday, my sister started crying to me outside of church, saying it hurt too much to go in there... And my mom made her go in anyways....
I'm just ranting on here, cause I don't know any atheists personally and am hurting greatly for my loved ones who are presently experiencing the ramifications of this degrading love.
Ironically, the Bible itself speaks of knowing a thing's nature by its fruits. So how should we measure the nature of this 'love' that's brought you and your family so much conflict and heartache? I suspect many of us will empathise deeply with what you've expressed about the difficulty of bearing this painful situation. I wish you strength.
Your dad severely misinterpreted what the bible was actually saying. I am very sorry you had to go through that.
There are plenty of atheists, and plenty of people who are de-facto atheists, called "nones", for whom the concept of religion is just unimportant. There are a lot of us online, a lot on CZcams, a lot in other discussion groups and online sites. I'm sure you can find some in your local area. I'm sorry that you're hurting from this degrading love, but until you can get out of the situation, observe it, and observe how it is contrary to the words they say. Rarely do I identify Christians by their love: I see hate, with them calling it love.
Contrary to a different reply, what your Dad did is exactly what it says to do in the Bible. The Bible is not big on personal responsibility, but rather on God providing so long as you do anything "in faith". I feel for your sister as well, but hopefully she will have you to talk with if or when she rejects religion - or she might embrace it, at least for a time.
Carlay LaTour “I value something over my family, therefore my family has no value at all “
@@brendenlatham7558 How, exactly? That passage seems to be very clear and without need for any context.
Thanks for this. Love isn't love if it's demanded.
When i believed, I would have told you that you were being ungrateful, because God created you and you owe him that much.
I also would have told you that he wouldnt give you something you couldnt handle, and God does things because its tough love.
I was so brainwashed.
Alyssa Good thing you've changed. Sad thing that people still think what you've thought from the past.
@@Alyzzardo So what if he created me? I don't remember asking for it.
@@mrosskne yeah we should sue him for that.
I heared a voice the other night and I reaponded with "I wanna be free"
The voice said "I created you"
Then I layed there in silence, and remembered in my time of solitude and loneliness 3 years before, I started talking and felt like created a voice in my head to keep me company, and the voice said to me, I wanna be free.
When I was maybe 13 or 14, I did feel it. It was at a christian camp, we were all asked to sit down, close our eyes, and focus on the preacher's voice only. She began saying things which I can only vaguely remember, but which I can, nowadays, identify as hypnosis. Her voice was calming and her words were aimed at getting everyone in that sort of trance, and when I, rebellious teenager as I always had been, opened my eyes out of curiosity (which none were supposed to do), I saw many people walking around the room putting their hands over children's heads from behind, at that specific distance at which you feel something but don't really feel it. Though I was taken out of the trance, by myself, I closed my eyes again as I heard someone walk closer, and didn't open them again until the activity was over. And so I probably entered the trance again, and by the time I (assume) it was my turn to get my magic headpat, I did feel that feeling beyond words that they insist in.
It's very hard to put in words, but it's probably best understood as being what you'd feel if you were taken to a mass hypnosis session and someone held their hand above your head for about a minute.
"I can feel the love! Can you feel it?"
"No. What does it feel like?"
"It feels as refreshing and bracing as a winter snowfall."
"So, it's the same sensation as biting into a York Peppermint Patty? I'll eat the patties. You can keep the masochism."
So this deity's love is worse than a Kendall Mintcake. That's pretty damning.
The "love" of God is very like the "love" of an abusive parent, love conditional on submission and withdrawn and replaced by punishment the instant the victim isn't a total doormat.
Gods love is a lot like the space between stars and planets, its vast, its wide, its deep, its full of... nothing.
@@i_forget you got us in the first half, not gonna lie
@Sunny Forest less than 0.01% substance and limited only by what we think we can see?
@@i_forget its also like the sun,
A whole lota hot air.
_"God's love is like..."_
...the mechanical, fake worm used to bait a fishing hook.
Nice
The what now? Mechanical worms? Aint maggots cheaper?
@@npc6817 depends on how long you use it
@@npc6817
The idea is that the worm doesn't get digested, but can be reused over and over.
It also has no nutritional value, unlike a real worm, HINT HINT
Just imagine real love as a real worm/maggot/whatever, with no fishing hook attached.
Well, that's how I interpreted it, anyway.
((18:42)) This part was hard to watch, it nearly put me to tears. The relationship I had with my parents, especially my father, bears resemblance to the "parasitic god relationship." I wasn't allowed to question or have ideas of my own, to do so resulted in bullying from my parents questioning my worth. Calling out my their hypocrisy, as young as a toddler, got me physically hit. I always had to "worship" in order to get my parents "love;" I always thought there was something wrong with me and why my parents did not show love or affection to me. I remember studying for hours to get a good grade on a test, changing the way I dressed, etc. just to get their attention. It never worked; they always found something wrong with me.
The ever-shifting parental goalposts you describe sound like narcissistic abuse. I've called it a game of 'snakes and hamster wheels' - even when you think you're progressing up a ladder with narcissists, you soon realise you haven't moved an inch. I hope you've been able to detach yourself from the poison.
Lani Johnson I hope now you’ve ditched them, why should you show them loyalty and love? They never gave you any I did the same with my lot, 🤗
That's terrible. That's abuse.
My first name is lani too! Hang in there name twin
Ahh!!! No!! My friend!! I feel exactly how you describe your relationship with your parents!! God that hurts me so deeply!!! I’m so sorry my dear friend!!
Your video made me think of my own deconversion. I grew up "feeling god's love" (what I now know can be attributed to the placebo effect and adrenaline). After my kids were born I used to say "god loves them more than I ever could" and as intensely as I love my kids I really believed it, your "parasitic god" idea really is a great way of phrasing that... I became extra religious for a while, then I started seeing the many stories of child abuse in highly religious families. I couldn't wrap my head around how god would allow that, eventually I realized that god would not protect my kids and his influence was roughly the same as if he didn't exist at all. Within a short time I realized he doesn't exist at all. You could say that "god's love" is what made me abandon the idea of god all together.
This leads nicely into a thought I had as I watched the video. (I am a father.) It seems to me highly ironic that Christianity complains about the state of fatherhood while simultaneously subverting it with a cuckoo father -- god.
There's something so poetic in that.
All emotions are equally real. Tricking yourself into feeling love and actually feeling it are the same. There’s great power in being able to tap into love on command, but not in the way the church teaches it.
I love this: “god’s love” is what made me abandon the idea of god all together.
Man. Feeling the love from the heart is so rare. I’m so discouraged. I feel your struggle bro. My parents don’t understand why I am so depressed. Their Christian identity- I can’t be heart to heart with my parents anymore cuz our differences in belief- it feels like I’m loosing the people I love the dearest- and they don’t understand how depressing that is. I feel so discouraged and hopeless and they see my anger and desperation and sorrow as proof I’m mentally ill. I feel so betrayed and misunderstood- and helpless and powerless! Imagine how horribly you would feel if your whole family believes in something you can’t agree with, your heart won’t let you, but that belief if theirs guards the door of their heart and I can’t get in there past their beliefs and they can’t hear my heart because their “belief bouncer” never lets them understand where I am coming from so any time I try to share my heart there is anger, bitterness, shaming, correction, rebuke, etc, and all I want is to be loved on a heart level... not “we love you so much so you need to see a counselor”... Jesus Christ! I don’t want a counselor I want to be my parents child and be welcomed in to warm embrace and kindness on the heart level and have them hear my heart and comfort me. But I can never have that ); how is that not depressing? I am so grieved to my core and I can stay here with them but my heart is miles away, and if I try to explain, I am corrected and rebuked or “oh poor child- your pain must be skewing you’re view of the world right now, you should see a counselor.” They aren’t willing to be wrong. They cover their insecurity by making me the responsible one- me the problemed one. Anytime I point out how wrong they are they harden up and get angry and defensive and try to corner me. It hurts so horribly.
@@JCTBomb I know this comment is old but I literally relate to EVERYTHING you said 100%. And I'm currently experiencing every single feeling you described. Its like they feel like they have to choose between loving me as their daughter or God. Religion is blinding them to the point they can't even speak to me without mentioning God and how its important to seek Him. I get it, I grew up believing christianity for 25 years before my eyes were open. my heart hurts because my own sister said we cannot have a heart to heart until I see a counselor. where is the love in that? Is that the love that God is telling them to show me? idk I just want you to know you're not alone and if you wanna talk outside of youtube I'm here bc honestly I have NO ONE to be this honest with about all this besides my husband. so I come to the comments to find people that understand. Thanks for posting your comment. I needed it more than you know.
It's almost a crime that you don't have more subscribers
Almost?
Ricardo Aguirre it is probably because he is not producing videos more often and also he was away for a while
Ricardo Aguirre He does now, because I just subscribed today.
Ricardo Aguirre nkii888iii99
@Jan Sitkowski You sound nervous, Christer.
"I love you."
GASP :D
"This simple phrase..."
oh. :C
3:07 Ooh ooh, I want to play:
-child abuse
-a mafia boss
-a deranged potter smashing his own works and hurling them into the furnace when he builds them wrong
_This is why I don't get invited to Sunday School anymore._
MegaChickenfish me too! I wanna play! This was the first thing that popped into my head!
God's love is like Syphilis. When you receive it it may feel good in the moment, but later it burns when you pee.
I went with Methadone. It's often used as a replacement for something that was causing you more pain, but it nonetheless dangerously addictive and harmful by itself.
Cocaine?
MegaChickenfish, those are the sort of highly cynical things I'd say. Respek!
@@MinTea14 you mean the secret ingredient of coke?
A superior says to a maiden, "I love you." The maiden shows no signs of emotions. The superior is a bit disturbed by this, because superior can do anything for the maiden. Though, the maiden remains indifferent.
The superior grows perturbed.
The maiden shows affection or admiration towards another person, place, or object.
The superior seethes with anger and pronounced jealousy. Believes that the maiden is confused or antagonizes the superior, intentionally. The maiden is the problem, along with their admiration for the person or object, which is possibly evil.
The maiden is sinful or evil for not showing the superior the same level of love or zeal without measure. Even though, the maiden is only mortal and cannot show love beyond an emotional or physical level, especially to an entity that does not exist physically or openly express emotions to maiden that can be reciprocated.
Although, the superior is superior to maiden and may have created the maiden. But, will damn or destroy the maiden for being incapable of loving the superior to the superior's own liking. All while, the Maiden has created any adversarial circumstances towards the superior, nor has the maiden insulted, cursed, disrespected, or attacked the superior. Beyond not honoring the superior's ego or liking, which is not in itself an act of love or admiration for another person.
This is like the most impossible fallacy ever.
pluto545 i thought you were gonna end it with “and that’s how nice guys think”.
@@CapnUnicorns and also the white knights of internet.
They're sooo good for yourselft that you cannot understand...
God is kinda comtroling. He is according to himself. A jealous God. We auto curse ourselves or he curses us. It just doesn't make sense at all as the law of consequences apply. He is really apathetic to human suffering. Sometimes he shows up and sometimes he doesn't. Which makes it difficult to fathom what the hell he is or if its just anti natural phenomena but either sincere beliefs or not.
@@DanielLopez-sh2pp the most supernatural thing I've ever seen is the seemingly universal hatred at Jews for existing
@@dinosaurusrex1482 you don't make sense. I am not talking about the Jewish religion.Please stay in the topic. I am talking about the bible. Where auto curse exists. Fact is. The bible could be even more ancient as its based of more older texts. Beyond like texts from ancient egypt. Babylon, greece, Mesopotamia. Etc. Syntax is rather similar and it alludes to other stories. Also talking about mystic or otherwise unnatural phenomena associated with beliefs. Rather since we human beings are attracted to the unknown. We generate the energy to bring these beings to life. That is what I am talking about. This could also be rules beyond our present understanding of science. We just human beings don't know or comprehend how our beliefs shape the world and nature around us. Its there...the ancients knew better because they observed the rules of reality. Caustically laws and effects.
I find it strange when people at my church speak in tongues. I'm an atheist but they don't know, so when they tell me to speak in tongues, I just make random sounds and they believe me. Shabadoohabigidubahoo. Praise be to God 🙏
Having to pretend to go along with it is fairly stressful.
Lol
If I found my self in such situation Id go full scat man, or at least try to
@@markoperic5023 then theyll start bowing down to you.
@markoperic5023 LOL!! I could hear the lyrics 🤣 “Ski-Ba-Bop-Ba-Dop-Bop“
"Dont do that, lord." "...Oh okay, I wont" Had me absolutely hysterical.
on god shit sent me 😂
I spent my entire childhood blaming myself for being wrong and not being able to feel God's love like everyone else
Turns out you are helping me to overcome that at an early age
Thank you for spreading the truth
“Love” extracted through fear and blackmail isn’t love. And I always feel so bad for anyone who compares divine love to parental love, but seems to think that parental love is expressed through punishment and fear. It’s an awful cycle, wherein people think that the only way to love their children is to instill fear, and children grow up feeling that they’re only truly loved by those they fear or those who fear them. It turns “love” into a generational game of domination and submission, but it’s a game with no winners.
I grew up with such beliefs and my desire is to find someone to submit too. To lose control just once in my life, but scared of losing control, scared of pain
@@markoperic5023 if you find such person, at least make sure they're trustworthy
Good video. Yes, Gods love comes with a Mafia like condition, accept it, or face severe consequences.
Hey Bonnie. Yep, it's the most anti-family 'love' there is - but still claims to be the source of 'family values'.
bonnie43uk I put it like this: "When you're in, you're in. When you're out; then they get to work on you."
That's some great afterlife real-estate you've got there. Be a terrible shame if anything happened to it...
god: Worship me so that i can protect you from the all the things I will do you if you don't worship me.
At least their "severe consequences" are imaginary and if you just pay no mind to it, it goes away. Amerika is 5% of the world's population but its prisons house 25% of world's prisoners. How many people actually deserve to be there? The state pretends to protect us through its laws and when we don't accept their draconian laws, we DO face REAL life destroying consequences
Just wanted to say thanks. Your content has changed my life in so many ways. What you're doing matters.
Cheers Matt. Making these videos is always a matter of balancing various requirements, so it's great feedback for me to hear they're useful.
Once again, we're treated to an overwhelmingly insightful, articulate, intelligent, relevant and sincere video experience. The world makes more sense after watching all of your amazing videos. Much appreciated.
This should be on TV for all to see.
I totally agree. That goes for all of his videos. He should have his own TV-series.
No ur attakin my beliefs. I aM So ATAked RiGht nOW
Do you think all the religious zealots will allow something that "blasphemous" on TV? Organized religion is fighting a battle uphill against human reason for millennia and losing ground every day, I'm sure, eventually, it will be defeated, but don't expect them to give us the victory so easy.
@@danny_the_soulkatcher There was a local TV schedule that had its "best bets" on the cover. They were all religious programs. Scary.
and shown in schools
As a former Hellenist, I interpreted my hardships as love from Hades. Hades was the god of the underworld, and the challenger of heroes. This slowly morphed into narcissistic traits. I saw this and left the faith abruptly.
Congratulations on breaking away. Sometimes the old-school faiths (I’ll just call them pagans cause it’s easier) slip out of the discourse when we talk about these things.
I know a con when I see one. Believer: " You'll find out when you're dead!" Me: That sounds cuckoo.
I see what you did there! :D
it doesn't sound like me
Where exactly is this memory stored for one to find out? What mechanism allows one to rationalize once the brain is non-functional? If these qualities exist without a brain, then why is a brain necessary at all?
Richard Gates well if there is an afterlife for souls, you'll all get to see it. Unfortunately for me, I'm an alternate personality, I exist solely through my host personality's brain bolts. Me and Soma will just fade into oblivion. Either way. I don't care. You believe what you like as long as you're not harming anyone.
Richard Gates the memory is stored in DNA .
We see ourselves as humans , but we are actually nuts and bolts on an organism .
This organism is the 3rd dimensional expression of infinite energy , left to itself for an infinite amount of time.
If we respect this source of life, we will be rewarded with space travel and eternal life.
If we were to become a level 3 civilization, we may even have an effect on the next universe , the universe that will be explode again once this one collapses .
Are you nicer than Mr. Rogers was?
Then you aren't MY god
I went on my kairos retreat with my Catholic Highschool. All of the girls , my friends included said they felt the love and presence of god. They said it was powerful. I spent four frightful and agonizing days feeling guilty that I couldn’t feel the “love” god apparently granted us. We were stopped on the side of the road on a snowy mountain for hours before we got there. when we finally got up to the retreat house it was of course an “act of god”. I listened to teary eyed testimonies from teachers and students attributing medical breakthroughs and deaths of families members gifts From god. But worst of all I listened to married teachers tell a room full of 15-18 year old girls that they are unlovable by any man unless they at first learn to love the lord.
Typical fundamentalist indoctrination
@MaiaMendez12
Religion has a shroud of complicit silence over it. If you talk about the abuse, point out the flaws, contradictions, hypocrisy, then you have betrayed the community.
Thank you for being so brave in the face of such lunacy. My own experience was harrowing and I rarely talk about it. Your videos are very helpful for me.
I find it a bit odd that a group of kids trained to reaffirm their Christian faith got stumped when they were asked if they personally felt their god's love. Though perhaps it was because they didn't know that particular game, or had learned to echo their teacher rather than have an independent understanding.
Precisely. We weren't in denominations that conceptualised divine love as something that could be physically experienced - it made no sense to us. He might as well've asked ‘Can we smell it?’
Anne higher the hair, the closer to God?
I had a friend who described her experience of God's love to me and as a thought exercise, I asked her how she knew WHICH god had given her this experience. I told her that sure she believed it was Jesus but a Hare Krishna would tell her that it was Krishna and his love for her doesn't lack fragility so he's not bothered what name she calls him so long as she experiences his love. What could she tell the hypothetical Hare Krishna to convince him that it wasn't Krishna?
I went to Catholic school and I distinctly recall one of the teachers telling us in class that God loved us more than our parents did or even could. I think it was intended to be comforting because of how strong and unbreakable God’s love for us was but that remark just disturbed me, because up until then we had otherwise been led to believe that a parent’s love was limitless and unconditional and now… we were being told that it wasn’t, but that it was somehow ok because some invisible and ultimately unknowable being was now filling that role? But God help us (pun partly intended) if we ever once dared to question that love…
Indoctrination: teach kids that God loves them more in hopes that they will choose the church over the parents if necessary.
"God's love is like..."
'An elevator, it lifts you up.' It can also let you down.
'A volcano, hot and explosive.' And destructive to everything around it.
'The Sun, it lights up our world.' Half of it, anyway.
'A rock, it's solid and reliable.' It's also among the most rudimentary of weapons.
Everything you make is a gem
This channel is voicing every thought I have as I continue my deconstruction process. Thank you for this content!
I'm reading Brave New World, right now, and your story about "Bill" reminds me of Bernard Marx's experience in his "solidarity service" -- just without the drugs and the orgy.
Ostsol though it’s in an ideologically opposite context, it reminds me more of the passage in 1984 when everyone is gathered in front of a screen to rage against the traitors and cheer at big brother and the party’s achievements.
“Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person’s ultimate good as far as it can be obtained” - C. S. Lewis
I think I’ve too often put too much emphasis on affectionate feelings in my life, but love between people, or between man and God, is about much more than affection.
What ultimate good can be given to a God? He doesn't need it.
@@JohanKylander This quote was primarily to reference what love for our fellow humans should look like: not just warm and fuzzy feelings but seeking their good.
For Christians, God is the source or definition of what is “good.” When we love God, we seek His goodness, which is, to simplify, seeking more of Him and for His will to be done since He is what is good. We don’t have anything we can give God, but we can love Him because it’s His will to love and be loved in return.
@@Numba003 "it's his will to love and be loved in return."
His only will is to love and be loved, why would he demand it and torture those who don't? He doesn't need any ultimatum, or especially one that goes against his nature as an embodiment of love.
@@JohanKylander Ah, well on that note, I think you’re misconceptualizing fundamental realities as ultimatums.
As I said before, for Christians, God is the source of “good.” If God is the ultimate good of existence, and He loves us and wants what is good for us, how could He will for us anything but Himself? Conversely, if we reject God, we fundamentally eventually reject all “good” things. Hell is the rejection of God and all goodness, it is a place where there is not good. God does not want anybody to go there; God is trying to prevent that. He loves us and begs that we love Him in return. But the choice is always ours. To quote Ezekiel 18:23 (ESV), “Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?”
There is a much more thorough explanation to this question out there that I haven’t the space to share here. I would very much encourage you to read a book called “The Problem of Pain” that examines this sort of question in much greater detail.
"Love is patient, like a trained assassin." LN
It's good to see you back, in a time when the online discourse within and without our sphere has become chaotic and toxic from all sides, it's good to hear a friendly voice, a voice that brings back some much needed nuance, civility and rationality.
Will there be much of a wait for part two? Regardless I'll wait patiently for the rest of your take on this rather patronising phenomenon.
“My love isn’t to be had by anyone who attempts to dictate who I love” I got chills mate
Greetings from the deeply delusional bible belt DFW Texas! Many thanks for your amazing wisdom and insight in arming rational thinkers and the much needed continuance of the destruction of delusional mind slavery from the Abrahamic cults. Your amazing work is making a world of difference. Keep up the great work and always looking forward to more content! DC
Greetings, fellow Texan! Glad to see that the Dallas Atheist isn't a dying breed!
Another North Texan checking in! Yall should go to the The Thinking Atheist's 300th Podcast Party at the DoubleTree by Hilton/Dallas - Richardson tomorrow! Me and a buddy are going and I think tickets ($15) are still available.
Greetings to you from that same DFW area. It's always nice to see other Texans who aren't bible beaters
Bryan Oney I'm actually watching some footage from the event right now. Unfortunately, I had to miss the event since I had to work that day. I was very surprised I didn't even know about it but can't wait to attend something soon in the DFW area. It's almost impossible to have an intelligent conversation with anyone here in the delusional bible belt! Your invite was much appreciated, my friend.
I cannot express what a wonderful breath of fresh air your channel is. Thank you for all your remarkable work!
Thank you - I'm glad you get something out of the channel
After asking this question for 6 years in the church.. this makes the most sense. Hard to swallow, but the wishy-washy answers I get in the church weren't helping at all. It was always my fault. They began to tell me to stop trying. Just give in, just let it all go.. I told him, you just can't do nothing it's impossible. In "doing nothing" you're still doing.. thanks TT
warmness in your heart, numbness in your legs, electricity... kinda sounds like a heart attack
Recently came out to my family that I am irreligious, and I got responses along the lines of "I love you with a love only God can give". Simply shunning me or telling me to my face that I'm going to hell would hurt less than those responses.
God's love is like...
teacher: you didn't finish it.
me: i'm following god's example...
_n o t h i n g_
God's love is like God.
Never existed in the first place.
@@Depressed_Spider I think I heard the sounds of theists having an aneurysm if not full blown seizure over that last statement. xD
What better way to celebrate the day of Love, than to take a little time to remember what it is NOT?
Thank you very much for all the good work that you've done!
I love Theramin Trees! It's my new favorite channel!
It helps me clarify my thinking on a number of issues & helps me see how my former thinking was unintentionally abusive to myself & others.
I always felt damaged, from about 5 or 6 because I never felt Yahweh
I used to feel something...or just really believed, but I think I stopped feeling it around 13, to be honest. I've only just recently come to admit it to myself.
Thank you. I can't wait until the bit on shunning comes out. My wife and I are ex Jehovahs witnesses and my wife's mom just left a voice mail last night stating she could no longer speak or have anything to do with her daughter anymore.
So glad to see another Theramin Trees video. Thanks for making sense out of the insane.
The only time I have cried in church was not of euphoria or joy, it was utter hate of the things I have done before. At that time I thought I have sinned greatly, but now that I think back on it, I was only being a child. I was 11 at the time, looking at silly jokes on the internet, but when my mom saw what I was doing, she thought I was in the wrong, demanding that I repent to Jesus Christ. I only wanted to be a kid, act like a kid, and even today I long to be a child again. My mom always tells me "Why are you so quiet now? You were very active and hyper when you were little" Well mom, its because I couldn't express myself. You didn't let me, always putting me down for watching the "devil's content." I still want to play tag, tug of war, and many other games with my friends; I feel like I never got my share of being a kid.
Well do it now, being that kind of Immature adult because people nowadays are several times worse
A friend showed me your channel about a month ago and I already watched all your videos.
Thank you.
This one struck home for me. Looking back I recall examples of 'Divine Love' that at the time I believed made me superior, as if God was choosing myself over others. Brief examples such as choosing not to attend an event on a Sunday , refusing acquaintance with individuals who did not share similar belief, and bearing personal testimony to strangers whom I had felt divinely inspired to speak with. At the time I felt as if the gates of heaven were opening to me. Now I realize those moments were nothing more than moronic, completely ruining potential friendships and experiences.
"Itchy gitchi yaya dada" holy shit - I almost spit the food out of my mouth all over my screen in laughter - well played sir
"Itchy gitchi yaya dada" - The holy Spirit
The scenario exemplified around 12:20 is exactly the moment I knew, as a child, that I had never really felt gods love and that I wasn’t a Christian at heart. I was attending a church camp, for the second year. The first year I had attended a summer camp called Dry Gulch. The experience was quite fond, it was mostly filled with games and activities and only one day of the week stay was really filled with church and pastoral activities. It was a wake up call the second year. There was no arcade, there wasn’t a lavish town dressed to appear as a old western setting, there was no canoeing, no fun games, no sports. We had a little wood box and a ball to play a game and the rest of the second year was mostly 3-5 hours spent in church and lectures about god. Here, I digress
In this second year, we were “forced” to speak in tongues. In fact, we weren’t even allowed to leave the pulpit and church house until we had convincingly done so and our pastors were satisfied that we had been filled with the Holy Spirit. I remember trying so hard to connect with god and become filled with the spirit and being incredibly frustrated that I could not accomplish anything even remotely satisfactory. I cried helplessly, I was broken until I just began to spout nonsense. The room was a wash of cry’s, screaming and such. I was hardly middle school aged, and it was incredibly traumatic to have experienced this so early. I appreciate your inclusion of this story in this video and that I can relate my experiences here. Christianity had caused me more harm that good at that age, and as an adult, I have heeded your advice and wisdom, to not respect the beliefs that are so baseless and ignorant. I have left the church for many years now.
This channel has been the greatest help for my thoughts and behaviour. I have recognised my behaviours and actions more objectivly and can now rectify mnay mistakes. Thankfully none of them are too large.
Again thanks from bottom of my heart
Thank you so much, Theramin! This is a great analysis, I'm really looking forward to the completion of this series. Thank you for being on Patreon, this is worth supporting. You are ... loved! ;)
Hey Lee. Thanks for your support - and love. Human love given freely puts grandiose divine 'love' in the shade every time. As you know, some familiar vocals will be appearing in part two .... ;8)
I love the absurdity of portraying the gods as these (metaphorically apt) naked, funny-looking baby birds
I was suffering with extreme anxiety that also caused constant profuse sweating from my underarms, hands, and feet. Then came the depression and paranoia. I wanted nothing more than to just die so my suffering would end.
I was desperate for someone, anyone, to show me some love and compassion. That's when Jesus came to me. I had a vision that he was sitting on my bed with me. He verbally offered the love and compassion I sought, as well as acceptance and forgiveness that I didn't feel I even deserved, especially from Him, considering how sinfully I had been living my life. I felt so overwhelmed I burst into tears. Even after that I was still reluctant to believe. I just assumed it was some sort of paranoid delusion and thought maybe I was telling myself the things I wanted to hear.
Shortly after, I decided to start a new chapter of my life. I started exercising, eating better, reaching out to find new friends, and had chosen a new career to begin. This went on for a few days, until a severe (dominant) hand injury put a screeching halt on everything. My new career choice involved heavy use of a keyboard. I was told that I might lose my index finger. My computer was also my only means of social interaction and recreation. Full of despair, I was thrown back into my crippling neuroses. That's when I decided to put my life in God's hands.
Exhausted of any other options, I thought I would try attending an online sermon from a local church. I was so moved that right then and there I decided to accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. I checked a box affirming that decision, and I checked another box that said I am interested in being baptized. Immediately after allowing Jesus into my heart, all my symptoms of anxiety and depression disappeared.
If God's love isn't real, then what exactly am I experiencing? I wasn't expecting to feel any differently, so I doubt it has anything to do with the placebo effect. I think it's best to just let people believe whatever it is that fills them with love and makes them feel happy and healthy, as long as they aren't hurting anybody else.
"If it isn't God, what else could it be?" That is something millions of religion people think. The truth is there could be many explanations, but the one that for sure isn't true, is God, because God doesn't exist. Believing in him will just send you down another rabbit hole that you will have to escape later.
See a therapist.
I love you too Theramin Trees.
clearly donuts are giving me love in my life, all praise the donuts and the love they will give to their followers.
;8) Well exactly - oodles more love in a Krispy Kreme than you'll ever squeeze out of a god.
Doesn't such a god also fuck with the heads of parents? As in: "if this is how the most loving parent ("Father") treats his children, this is how I should treat mine"?
Your videos are always awesome. Thank you.
5:09 I love this moment XD It's like before Sodom and Gomorrah when Abraham bartered with God with the number of good people needed for them to be saved lol
Old school CZcamsr comes back to make a video ACTUALLY about atheism.
I agree. This type of video is too few and far between.
Especially nowadays.
ITCHY GITCHY YAYA DADA!
That's funny, I always call tongues: "Mama Se Mama Sa Mama Cu Sa." XD
"Fake it till you make it", is the core value of all of this.
I love your videos. Your voice is soothing. And they are extremely well written and thoughtful.
Cheers Todd
YES - NEW THERAMIN TREES
Amazing content as always. Much appreciated.
One thing that I would love to see is a debate between you and any prominent religious speaker, live, whether it be in person or via Skype/Hangouts. Your style is clear and concise and you're not afraid to point out the many logical fallacies that many preachers use for their own gain.
Oh, on a side note, your music is awesome.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers!
The comparison between God with cuckoos is absolutely sublime. As in every video of yours, there's always a new insight in the corner that's totally worth the time watching at.
This! So much this. You are a beacon of inspiration to us all. The way my parents raised me.Demanding constant obediance and no argument. Thank you for giving all the closeted exittors a voice.
Thank you. This is the most persuasive description of religion that I have heard!
Love in religion is similar to that lie the entire idol industry is placed upon. As highlighted in yoasobi's song "idol"
Ah, you never cease to impress me. Loving it.
Thank you so much for the beautiful content. I'm so glad that the world has people like you!
Thanks Theodore ;8)
The horrible truths of religion.
Besides, no divine and wise being would even think of asking us to love or worship it or even be thankful. That would make its love insincere.
Setekh if i were a deity that created this world, I’d be too ashamed of myself for creating such a mess to even ask for respect.
@@surmountwho2861 Me too! I would be down here helping instead of being a coward and committing suicide by Roman crucifixion and leaving you with mixed messages and gas lighting verses and let other people encourage you to rationalize that shit with more heuristics and logical fallacies. I mean, you'd still be right to kill me for the shit I created, but I'd try really hard to earn back some respect and do the best I can to at least try and outweigh the bad with as much good as I could possible muster.
Fantastic video - always delighted to see your videos pop up in my subscriptions. I also remember when I was a teenager, the moment I was asked a similar question and when I realised that I couldn't feel the love or presence of god is the moment I began my journey into atheism.
Love your videos and you style. Very important information I feel and you explain it perfectly
Brilliant my good sir! Your work is unmatched and worth a look for millions. Thank you!
instant thumb for you!
I did the same. Can't express how much respect I have for this man!
Oh man, the times I felt like shit, and moping around in my bed as an early teen when I couldn't feel or even identify God's love. I thought I was a human failure that I was even Confirmed but not yet able to feel that love.
_Thank God I'm an atheist now_
reminds me of that one George Carlin bit, where he talks about how if you don't do what the big man in the sky says, then you'll be sent to this place of eternal burning and torture, ... *but he loves you*.
"George Carlin" ----
George Carlin was humorous because he disclosed absurdities.
Abraham lived in the Canaanite culture which regularly practiced child sacrifice. It was as Abraham was actively contemplating this abominable practice that the goodness of God was revealed to him. Abraham understood that God does not sacrifice His children because he knew intuitively that God is good. Abraham understood that God provides Himself as the Lamb. So, Abraham changed his name, departed from the land of the Canaanites, and is to this day called the friend of God.
Glad you are back. You put so much effort and care into your work, and it really shows!
I never felt any sort of expression of God's love. For a long time, I thought I was broken, so I tried to look for the feeling in any place I could. For a while, I thought I'd found it-I had a certain feeling when I was at church, or when I was at youth group. That had to be it, right?
It took a long time to realize what I was feeling was simply community. Being so limited in who I was allowed to be around, simply being around people who acknowledged me was a euphoria of its own that I mistakenly attributed to God. When I started going to public schools, then to other school programs, and as my youth groups progressively socially removed me for my "strange" behavior (turned out to be neurodivergency), the feeling moved and increased to the nonreligious friend groups I developed. That was when I should have started to question. But it took a lot longer than that. The fear runs deep.
I literally got a Christian ad before this video, It said that If you never hear of Jesus’s word then you still go to hell
I _love_ this video! These always pop up just when I need them. Thanks.
I was eager in church. I read a bunch of the Bible, learned all the trivia, all the songs, repeated the doctrine that was thrown at me.
But I never felt anything. I always wanted to feel what the others were feeling, I wanted to speak in tongues, I wanted God's love.
So in Bible summer camp one year, there was a huge room where music was playing and everyone was praying with each other. I had some adults pray with me for me to feel God and speak in tongues.
The atmosphere in that room was buzzing, I was tingly, like the electricity comparison someone you quoted mentioned.
I spoke some gibberish. And convinced myself I had actually spoken in tongues. Even though I knew I hadn't. I just wanted to be special and to be included.
Now, I get a similar feeling when I listen to meditationy "hypnosis" videos. I don't think I'm actually being hypnotized, but I want to be, so I force it and I get that tingly feeling.
That's all "God's" love is to me. A tingly feeling I can get from secular meditation anyway.
2:14 the six descriptors - Corruption, Oppression, Negation, Narcissism, Enslavement, Deception. the first letters of each spell CONNED, when describing God's Love.
I know I'm certainly not the first to notice this or point it out I just think @theramintrees truly does think through every single nuanced way to drive his point home and it's worth a chef kiss
"describing God's Love" ----
God is Love.
In a world turned to evil Love looks like an innocent man being humiliated, spat upon, and tortured to death.
“Love me or i will send you to eternal suffering and torment” -god probably
No
-Redeagle
@@redeagle8559 yes
Yes! Love these videos! :)
First class. You really articulate your points extremely well with refreshing sincerity. Your insight is contagious in a good way.
I totally missed the Pixies lyrics the first time I watched this. Now I'm going to be hearing that song in my head all day. Thank you! :)
As spectacularly awesome as ever. :) Thanks for this.
Hey smartbluecat - great to see you prowling this way. Hope you've been having a creative time ;8)
This is a fantastic video. With a significant portion of CZcams atheism degenerating into various regressive attacks, it's good to see someone still making videos that tackle real issues regarding religion, complete with thorough and thoughtful analysis of cited sources. Having someone like you around to discuss things calmly and rationally is a real comfort, not to mention a treat for the intellect. You also have the best music in your videos.
If I exist for a second, and during that second I reject you, and I cannot be forgiven after that second, then I don’t want the love of the god who seems to care not for me. If he has infinite time, while I do not, then he can spare more than a second. I cannot.
Another excellent video from TheraminTrees. As a former religious person turned militant atheist, I can tell you that I never managed to love God; the more I learned about this character the more he seemed like just an oppressive dictator. I only did what the chuch said was his will (or attempted to) out of fear of hell. All the talk about how God supposedly loves me more than any human loves me never made any particular impression on me to either love him back or even CARE whether or not he loves me. Like you say very eloquently: why would I yearn for the love of someone I can't see? Also, I can't love someone who demands I do his will unconditionally, or that I care more about him than about people close to me, who I DO see and who may not put such heavy conditions on having a relationship with me.
Now that I am an atheist and that I know that all gods described in holy books are nothing but figments of human imagination, I can say openly that the kind of "love" described in the Bible, which necessitates reciprocation by total obedience and self-efacement, is repugnant to me. The fictional omnipotent dictatorial sky goblin that is the Christian god is a monster every bit as bad as, if not worse than his fictional adversary the Devil, and not only could I never love such a character, but I couldn't care less if he purported to love me immensely, I have no need of such love. In fact, I would prefer a god who literally HATES me and wishes me in hell, but IS POWERLESS TO PUT ME IN HELL OR IN ANY OTHER WAY PUNISH ME, than a God who theoretically loves me, but has the power to put me in hell (or to save me from it), but who won't save me from hell or other punishment unless I love him unconditionally, revere him, and obey his commandments.
An analogy with battered wife syndrome is adequate. It's not enough for someone to say they love you. If the actions resulting from their love are bad toward you, then their love is only lip service and is of no benefit to you.
Impeccable presentation of reality. Healthy, proactive position that should help every viewer avoid being a victim. This is the kind of presentation that should be widely supported by viewers on Patreon.
Cheers Terry - was just messaging your fella yesterday. I hear you'll be over in England in the new year. Hopefully the train strike will be resolved by then - it's mad at the moment. But if you're mostly cabbing it, you'll be fine.