grooming minds | the abuse of child indoctrination [cc]
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2016
- An exploration of the abusive practice of child religious indoctrination.
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
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opening quote:
Teach children critical thinking skills and you can persuade them to believe whatever you can substantiate.
Seduce and terrorise children with fantasies; punish their dissent and reward their submission; and you can groom them to believe whatever you like.
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subtitles
Arabic: TranquilOblivion
Bulgarian: Djeitko
Slovak: Peter Ščigulinský
Spanish [Latin America]: anonymous
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Missouri abduction articles:
www.theguardian.com/us-news/20...
edition.cnn.com/2015/02/05/us/...
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'bending truth'
• bending truth | how ad...
This video focuses on the recruitment of adults into manipulative groups, only briefly touching on child indoctrination.
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music © TheraminTrees
![infantilisation | a regressive abuse [cc]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c39F04inLJ0/mqdefault.jpg)
![infantilisation | a regressive abuse [cc]](/img/tr.png)
![punishing doubt | religious condemnation of thought [cc]](/img/n.gif)
‘It is not a loving act to hold a child so tight you crush it’s bones’
It can be. If an attacker is snatching your kid do you let the child go when his arm breaks or do you hold on and keep fighting?
Caercutta 30 how the hell do you break your childs arm by holding him from an attacker.its a metaphor mate
@@Caercutta30 You don't hold onto the child, you grab the attacker. Crush _them_ with love for your child.
It's a act of murder, actually.
Powerful statement!
Sooo that's a no to teaching my future children about how the flying spaghetti monster boiled for our sins?
@Time to Reason Eternal boiling for the wicked. Eternal delicious pasta for the holy,
Only true pasta lovers co to heaven
This doesnt apply. We all know the Flying Spaghetti Monster SHOULD be worshipped and the Flying Spaghetti Monster's words are pure and should be followed.
This is, in fact, discouraged. lol
this is completely unrelated but i really like your profile pic
The comedian Marcus Brigstocke once said "A five year old is no more a Christian than he is a member of the postal worker's union".
So true.
the only difference is that one is a group that grants eternal happiness and is constantly persecuted by the government, corporations and random people on the street. the other one is about worshipping some jesus guy idk
@@habere My brother was a postman for about five years and he commented at the time that he never knew there were so many insane people about until he started the job. Threats of violence were routine and the only time he got bitten it wasn't by a dog it was by a crazy person.
His assessment of people was that 90% were normal and the other 10% would blame him for bringing bad news, blame him for bringing no news and blame him for not bringing good news quicker. Not a job I would care to do. I don't have the temper for it and would be sacked in the first week.
@@xxxggthyf I am from the U.S. and I was a child of orthodox Mormon parents. I was subjected to several hours per week of intense religious indoctrination for the first 20 years of my life. One could say I was fairly sheltered. Now as a non-religious adult, I really like the phrase "X is a child of {name a religion} parents." Anyways, I had an experience similar to your brother the postman. When I was 19 to 21, I served as a Mormon missionary in Argentina, where I was constantly initiating conversations with strangers (mostly middle and lower class). My biggest takeaway from interacting with the public so much, was I didn't realize how many of my fellow humans were kind of broken and / or crazy. Sometimes, learning more about reality is painful.
@@function0077 I've passed a few generally quite pleasant spells in psychiatric hospitals as a patient and in all honesty me and my fellow inmates were on average no more insane than people outside. The principle difference seemed to be that we had a diagnosis. 😃
It is shocking how easy these concepts come to my sons. I was indoctrinated as a child but I didn't indoctrinate my own children because I had questions. When my sons were about 13, they came to me and told me they were atheists. They said, "You are too mom, you just don't know it yet".
In recent years, this is how I see people around me. They call themselves "religious", say they love god, attend the institutions, etc. However, they all do things that break the rules, which will send them to hell. This means they do not genuinely believe deep down about hell and the rules that put you there.
If I tell a friend that I heard that the most gorgeous movie star (that my friend is totally infatuated with), has AIDS, and somehow that movie star came to our town and somehow badly wants to seduce the friend. The friend will not have sex with the movie star because of the risk of suffering later on. But what is the worse that can happen... you get sick, have pains for a while and die. Compare this to hell... the suffering is a billion times worse because it is burning for eternity! Yet religious people are casually doing the things that will put them in hell.
So it seems to me they don't truly believe... and they just don't know it yet.
They probably think they can just ask for forgiveness. Or they believe in purgatory where you wait off your sins. Etc. Religious people have come up with a ton of ways to advert the idea they might suffer in the hell their own holy book says they’ll might go to.
@@DStabilizer What if you are intentionally breaking the rules and sinning, knowing the possible punishment and knowing the loophole to repent on the deathbed? Does this insincere plan still get you to heaven and avoid hell?
@@DStabilizer I see what you're saying. However, it seems you've completely removed everything we can possibly see or hear or sense. The only person who can possibly know is the one true God. So, how can we possibly judge other people? Under that system, we can't. Because the "true goodness" and "true belief" are now completely invisible to us because we can't truly know what's in their hearts, as you said.
Furthermore, these heavily interpreted statements (that I assume somewhere down the line had some root in the Bible), because we can't seem to take any of them literally, seem to be under your complete control.
@@DStabilizer I have to add one thing. You say that if you repent on your deathbed you get a free pass. I can understand that point.
But the way I see this is IF you understand you've done bad AFTER the fact, you can repent.But knowing you're doing bad and deciding to do it anyway is hypocrite.
To the religious mind all this is, sadly, secondary. They think they're ensuring the child's place in heaven and it's avoidance of hell. They think teaching all the religions without preference is just leading the child astray. Avoiding hell and going to heaven justifies any means in the religious mind, they have the one correct religion after all.
As someone who managed to break away from my religious childhood indoctrination, I will say that this video really isn't for the indoctrinators themselves. I don't believe any of us have any real expectation that the religious will ever stop trying to indoctrinate their children for the very reasons you just mentioned.
But for those people with the linger doubt, with unanswered questions, with unresolved conflicts, videos like these can give them new context and ideas to work with and, with any luck, allow them to recognize their childhood indoctrination and reevaluate what they really want out of their lives and their worldview.
It was through the internet, and mostly CZcams, where I was able to learn about things like this and first came to question the beliefs I was taught during childhood.
PrimeSonicYT
not all people are fixed, there are middle grounds, indecisive people, and even the extremists can have doubt gradually implanted, so they can be later persuaded.
I've changed my mind even in topics I was fairly confident I was right, have you ever?
Iuri Grangeiro Anyone who is willing to try and really know the truth about things will change their mind when it comes to different topics. One of the things I try to always do is be open minded while also putting an idea or issue through as much research as I can. Even if I feel 90% sure I know something to be true or fact. I still realize that I could be wrong and allow other opinions or evidence about any topic. This seems to be something a majority of people don't do, and TheraminTrees highlights why this is the case in his videos. I wish I had found this man much earlier because he has taught me so much about how people can think and reason.
This is true, but just as there was the example of the parents that fake kidnapped their kid because they thought that would prevent a bad thing from happening to him, it should be considered child abuse to try to traumatise a child into believing anything. In my opinion, it's somewhat less awful what the parent kidnappers did, because they at least had a realworld threat to base their fear on. The religious just go off a perceived threat in which they have no realworld evidence to believe even happens. It doesn't matter how hard they truly believe it. If I truly believed that a disabled child (autistic, diabetic, ect) would be cured by baking in the oven at 425° and not be harmed by the heat, it'd still be crazy child abuse if I convinced them to crawl into a hot oven.
"She knows her son."
I encountered this same phrasing from a friend of mine. In this case it was the "sugar causes hyperactivity in children." When I pointed out that current research indicates that it most likely doesn't, he instantly got defensive and challenged me to show him.
So, I did. Whereupon he immediately went into excuse mode to the tune of "well they didn't account for this, this and this." So I showed him that they specifically took those into account and that he hadn't read it, but simply dismissed it out of hand because he disagreed.
His ending line..."Well, I know my kids."
sugar actually made me hypoactive.
also, is it not possible that this person has actually tested sugar on his kids, and they're saner without it?
@@ellenorbjornsdottir1166 considering how much research is positively against the idea that sugar causes hyperactivity I doubt you are the exception to that. Much more likely is a mix of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias which leads you to feel as though you always got hyper from sugar.
@@steggyweggy no, like sugar sedated me.
@Bold sugar isn't just a fuel. it's a fuel which we specifically evolved to store for a rainy day.
My son, now 15, has not been indoctrinated and as a 40-year-old mother, recovering from religion, I continue to be in awe of how well he articulates his needs and speaks his mind. He enjoys so much more personal freedom than I ever had, yet to him…this is just normal. I am not a perfect parent by any means, but I am grateful to have been able to give him this gift of the freedom to create his own identity.
Just the fact that you show this much self awareness shows how great you are as a mother
A mother who can be proud of her child for just becoming their own person is sadly a rare thing still. And it means you are a very good mother
czcams.com/video/N9MiAbz7jSI/video.html
I'm just a few years ahead of him in age, but my parents did a good job by me, too. They weren't perfect and I was definitely a bad kid at times. But it's not about being perfect, it's about doing the best you can with what you have and setting your children up as best you can for the life ahead of them. You may be proud of them, but like my parents, I don't think you know, or may ever know, how proud he is of you.
Nice! I have a kid on the way, my first. I really hope I can be like that too!
I was involved in children's ministry as a christian and they spoke about the window of influence and how it was unlikely that someone would convert after a certain age. I didn't think anything of that at the time... Perpetuated abuse...
"Train up a child..."
I thought it was important to note that, if that bible verse were true, it was proof that my parents did _not_ train me properly even though they were entirely fundamentalist and were in the top percentile in terms of accurately following scripture. If all of that had been the "way I should go", then it should have been physically impossible for me to "depart from it," because the verse says with absolute certainty, "he _will not_ depart from it."
N u were part of it.
I hate myself for helping to teach small children about the bible. I was only 10 or so, so I didn't know any better. There is nothing I hate more than indoctrinating children.
@@unknown81360
It should be categorised as child abuse.
We have many windows, I experienced in my nearly half a century life. 🙂
18:55 explains my experience to a tee. It all started finding out about my sexuality. I thought something was wrong with me, but the more I started to accept it, the more I started to reject religion. I started to see how it mistreated people and how inhumane it is in general. I still keep this a secrect from my family (at home) in order to protect myself, but one day I will truly cut my ties from it and be the free person I deserve to be. Religion (in my case Islam) caused the greatest regrets and fears I've ever experienced.
It's interesting how things like sexuality can act as an anchor for reality. Once we work out there's nothing wrong with our sexuality - which sadly, of course, some don't - we're faced with the imperfection of the ideology that's been sold to us as 'perfect'. Glad you made it out, and good luck moving forward.
I hope that some day you'll be able to take your mask off without fear of rejection by your society. I noticed that your profile picture is mishima from persona 5, I'd understand why you could relate to him.
@@McCaroni_Sup You too? I can see it too
Same here, but with christianity
Yaay! I got the hundredth like on such a nice and meaningful comment. I feel for you, even though in my case it was not sexuality, but plain old morality (eventually I had to reject morality all together, somewhat like a Nihilist, but I don't preach it as it is not exactly something that leads to happiness)
I nnow this is slightly irrelevant... but I actually do like the X-design of the party logo...
Cheers. Was playing around with various politically associated images including a crossed ballot box, then the parallel of the religious cross struck me and I went with it.
Just now coming to this video, but I too like the design where the cross is rotated by 135 degrees, haha.
Be careful, that's how they get you.
Me too. It kinda looks like a check mark. How it breaks out of the corner
You MUST like this symbol young one!
My current roommate is dealing with the issue of having her parents mad at her because she "committed" to their religion as a kid so why isn't she following it now? All I can think when they send her paper after paper from her days in school talking about how much she loved God is that she would never have been allowed to sign a legally binding contract at that age because we all understand that kids aren't developed mentally and can't make informed major life decisions.
That's so familiar. My 'commitment' to Christianity was thrown at me when I revealed my non-belief in my early teens. This from people who, years before, had forced me to carry on attending church when I explicitly told them I didn't like it and I want to go anymore. I wish your roommate well in dealing with this parental doublethink.
Thanks for this. As a lifelong atheist, religious indoctrination seems like a nightmare and I can't believe what the church gets away with..
I’m also a lifelong atheist (slightly religious mother, atheist father). Couldn’t imagine this happening to me. Terrifying.
I'm an atheist and was homeschooled Pre-K - 12 on Abeka, ACE and other Christian curriculum. At 33 I just decided to never speak to my parents again.
The problem is that many believers genuinely do believe in hell and damnation, sincerely fear for the eternal fate of their children's souls and - here's the real problem - also know, even if only subconsciously, that their beliefs will not withstand critical analysis.
The result of these factors means that threats and attempts to cow with fear are their only options.
What if you're not as smart or charasmatic as those who would lead your child astray. Indoctrination could keep him safe until he can defend himself.
Caercutta30 what do you mean be "lead your child astray"?
@@hrgrhrhhr Lead him off the path to heaven. The one Jesus gave his life to provide.
I personally believe in God but I don't believe in using fear-mongering tactics I don't believe in hell because why would God make a place to torture us forever for not knowing his existence or for doing something he deems wrong if you didn't want us to do something he deemed wrong he wouldn't give us the choice yet we have free will a great video made by an atheist going by the name of dark matter or something of the sort made a video called the greater insult I recommend any one religious or not to watch it it has some great points would you be insulted if a random stranger didn't know of your existence until you met you no you would not so why is it believed that would be any different with God points like of these and many more are raised in the video the greater insult
czcams.com/video/ttevamkS6gw/video.html
Caercutta30 excuse me what
I remember, when I left my religion, it was because I had constant thoughts about death and afterlife at night, and what my religion might be fake.
And when I went on their internet to comfort myself and make sure Islam is true, my questioning just went further and I was closer to atheism. It was inevitable, I just couldn't stop thinking about it each night. Now that I am atheist though, I never have those thoughts in hte middle of the night and I'm not scared of death anymore.
religion mainly exist because of humanity fear of death
@Bold yup, islam needs to end asap
same here! ever since I left islam, alot of my anxiety stopped and i've stopped being extremely scared
I’m in this same boat, as well. Used to have horrific nightmares about dying and going to hell, which *mysteriously stopped* a short time after I came to the conclusion that there’s probably no such thing as hell to begin with.
I was born into a muslim family I completely understand what you're saying...our religion teachers were crazy and pervy and never even taught their own religion correctly which isnt..I used to have so many nightmares when they taught us about the torture that happens when u die after they burry you and how the coffin will keep tightining around you till you die again or some bullshit like that ..I just mourn the hours they spent it schools teaching us dumb shit and ingraining an unbelievable amount of shame in a child..im the only one in my fam whos an atheist..its pretty frustrating but im so glad I had the awareness later on to see for what it is
EXACTLY THIS. I wish my religious loved ones could stop making excuses for why their church is "different" than this.
Exactly
@@Cecilia-ky3uw Most religions are not different from what is talked about in this video though.
@@Depressed_Spider the video is ridiculous, and not one thing they say against religion can be honestly applied to Christianity
@@jimmys6566 TheraminTrees is talking from experience, so yes, it can be applied.
@@Depressed_Spider ah, that's anecdotal which is extremely weak evidence. Teaching your kids that there is no life after death is indeed the real child abuse; to allow them to think that humanity and our DNA coding came from nothing is ridiculous. Why do you think that are atheists more likely to suffer from mental illness than people of faith? It is because of the hopelessness they might experience in this life . . .
I am young, and am starting to come out of my childhood religion. I just realized the depth of their attempt to keep me in it. I was a smarter than average kid, and was put into a class preparing me to become an official member early because "I was mature enough to handle it" I was TWELVE. The class usually began around fifteen. I wasn't just able to handle it. I was smart enough to question it earlier than they were prepared to fight my questions.
Well where I live, we've been taught about our religion since the start of official education, which is around age 4-5. Combine that with your parents brainwashing you since you were able to talk.
@@larsswig912 same
They try to get smart kids early to get the critical thinking out of their heads quicker. It was a similar story with the JWs for me as a kid.
@@MattJDave Mine was Junior Bible Quiz. If I just memorize all the answers to every question, I won't need to ask said questions because all the answers have been keyed into my brain and they're the answers they want me to have.
Indoctrination never worked on me, I questioned from the time I was a small child. God wasn't the only thing I questioned, I also questioned bigotry, never really grasped the concept or what the payoff was. I also hated cruelty and vandalism, never saw anything productive or fun about either. I never even understood how something as simple and beautiful as a firefly catching evening could turn into what I considered a blood-fest of luminescence, streaked across the pavement with a shoe, ripped from the body to become a "diamond" that stuck to your finger with the blood of a creature that brings us nothing but joy! Why? Why can't you just let them go so they can come back to make you happy another night? Those are the things that bothered me as a child, they still bother me now and I'm closing in on senior status. God was just another thing that never made sense, it didn't add up and I always thought there was something wrong with ME! I remember looking around the classroom during religious class, thinking, "Are they actually buying this? Why would anyone believe any of it?" I've become tired, after all these years, or being easily dismissed by family and the general public, with an eyeroll and smirk, implying "Oh, that's just the resident Atheist, being angry.".
Anyway, I've heard it all from both sides, all sides, but you're different, you make it even clearer, you're able to verbalize things that I've felt and haven't been able to put into words. You are, along with Qualia and NonStampCollector, my favorite Atheist CZcamsrs. I appreciate you, I have to watch your videos more than once, to make sure I don't miss a word. I still thirst for knowledge, doesn't matter how old I get, doesn't matter how many idiots are swimming in the pool, I know our time here is precious and short and I want to know as much as I can while I'm here. You help. Thanks for being you and thanks for sharing yourself with us :)
GSD Travels Thanks for saying what I wanted to say but didn't know quite how so concisely.
GSD Travels very well said although I do believe in God I love how we can hold a calm neutral tone and discuss things in a very logical and rational manner I have an old saying I believe in God but I don't believe in religion what I mean by that is well I have my own beliefs on things that are religious my beliefs are my own individual thoughts and not that of a group that indoctrinates my own personal beliefs not one from a book but one from my brain this video was a great watch and your comment was a good read have yourself a good day
Edit: and i will never claim to have a way to prove there is a God but my personal stance is be true to yourself and hold yourself with integrity and hope that your creator if there is one will do the same
Indoctrination never worked for me either, despite my very devout parents efforts. We had prayers several times daily, church, Sunday school, the works. I can’t remember a time when I truly believed.
Did it work on me? No. Did it seriously fuck with my sense of confidence and how comfortable I felt with my own mind and have long-term consequences? Yes.
Probably off topic but what the hell did I miss about firefly catching? Are their abdomens collected? I never lived somewhere where there are loads of fireflies but I thought you caught them in a jar and then let them go when you were done with the picnic or stargazing or whatever. Is this not a thing?
This week, after visiting with my deeply religious extended family, my teenage child thanked me for raising them in an environment free from indoctrination, where they were encouraged to use critical thought and decide for themselves what to believe. I did not have the benefit of such an environment, but somehow I broke the chain, even though it meant great facing disapproval from my extended family. It felt very good to know that my child recognizes and appreciates this fact. It made it all worthwhile.
Wonderful to hear. Here's to more broken chains.
@@TheraminTrees You are not free, since only the truth will set you free, and Christianity is true
@@mattharazin5578 don't you ever get the feeling of cognitive dissonance?
@@anastassia5822 Sure
@@mattharazin5578 so what do you do about it?
As an bisexual athiest I love this video my parents are extremely religious and the story about Ben was extremely similar to mine and I'm told I'm not allowed to have my own believes and that I just need to have faith, I can't talk to my parents about anything, the one time I did say something about how I don't think that gay marriage is wrong my mom went on a 20 minute rant about how it's biblically and morally wrong and that she'd do whatever it takes to get this "liberal ass crap" out of my head so this video was an amazing help thank you so much for making it
I hope you are good. Well actually animals too have homosexual tendency. It is bs to use moral when animals are doing something good and say they are from god. But when don't, they aren't from god. Hmm. I guess it does not suit your idea of god.
Anyway I hope you are ok. And take care of yourself because if you don't, no one will, not even parents or a god (which I'm not convinced it exists).
@@Moonlight-ju4qi We shouldn’t base our morality on what animals do, that would be pretty brutal and barbaric, and unreasonable (which is exactly what secular “morality” has become).
@@mattharazin5578 Same sex marriage is immoral because? Does it harm anyone? Does the couple both willingly marry? Are they adult and sane enough to choose marriage partner? These questions makes it different from paedophilia and bestiality and it does no harm to anyone. It is thus moral. Is there something with it immoral? Tell me, I'm interested in hearing it.
@@Moonlight-ju4qi Marriage and the family which proceeds from it is the building block of society. The redefining of marriage has hurt the institution of marriage, making it more focused on subjective feelings rather than authentic love and responsibility. With the institution being damaged, the rest of society is damaged as well which is clearly being displayed in our culture
@@Moonlight-ju4qi I’m afraid I cannot tell you my other more substantial arguments, CZcams views it as hateful and has prevented the posts. So much for honest and open discussion, the secular media does far more indoctrination and silencing than religious people
Given the current state of discourse regarding LGBT+ rights, it's almost kind of comforting to see this videos years after it was published, calling out the grooming that actually happens.
Are you accusing the lgbtq+ as groomers? That's horrible.....
@@TheWandererOfDreams No, saying that the groomer allegations are false, the actual grooming comes from the clergy
@@deadpoolj2278 thank you for clarifying, slay.
@@TheWandererOfDreams murder kill genocide slaughter assasinate war massacre
@@tristanmisja ummm......what?
a just society is one you would be prepared to enter at random
im stealing this
I too liked it but as a caution I wondered whether you would still enter the 'just society' if you knew it does not work and you would starve? What if there was a less just society where you would have an 90% chance of not starving?
The question is nonsensical. In this case, the most just society is _defined_ as the one you would most prefer to enter at random. So, a society where everyone starves would not be a just society. John Rawl's project in "A Theory of Justice", is to balance incentives and equality, so the poor don't drag the rich down with them, and the rich don't leave the poor to die.
I doubt you can steal what was freely given by Theramin Trees.
APaleDot According to that definition, in that one would prefer to enter it, a society where some starve is more just than one where all starve. My point of course is that you cannot assume people would prefer to enter the most just society and the society that people would prefer to enter may not be the most just.
it's not his quote though, pretty sure someone else said it.
edit: apparently it was John Rawls
the veil of ignorance thing instantly reminded of doctor who, when the zygons and humans were negotiating a settlement and the doctor temporarily wiped all their memories so they didn't know which side they were negotiating for
Ah yes - I remember that! See, even the Doctor knows the power of the veil.
Tenth Doctor: "Any second now, you're going to stop that countdown. Both of you, together."
Eleventh Doctor: "Then you're going to negotiate the most perfect treaty of all time."
Tenth Doctor: "Safeguards all round, completely fair on both sides."
Eleventh Doctor: "And the key to perfect negotiation?"
Tenth Doctor: "Not knowing what side you're on."
I grew up in a very non-religious family, and this is how I learned moral thinking:
- „do you think they want you to do it to them?“
Me „no“
- „ok, should you do it to them?“
Me „no“
It’s really a simple way to understand why moral exists.
"It is not a loving act to hold a child so tight you crush its bones."
I come back to watch this from time to time and this line always gets me
Missouri abduction defense logic:
I wanted to protect my son from bullies punching him in the face, so I taught him to avoid it by showing him how bad it is: I punched him in the face every few days and I can assure you that he didn't like that and will avoid that situation whenever he can.
Also, I think society doesn't realize just how dangerous nuclear power plant meltdowns can be, so in order to raise awareness I'm planning to ...........
Reason: Missouri.
Let’s make Chernobyl look like a children’s birthday party 😎 /s
@@historiansayori2089 LMAO
They're actually the cleanest, most efficient form of energy, but alas, we digress!
@@avamasquerade Yeah. I agree
"I dont think the world realized how dangerous nuclear war is, so I've decided to cause a riot in North Korea and blame it on the Americans."
this really helped open my mind. thank you. i remember questioning my religion and then feeling so stressed, anxious, and then just pushing it out of my mind. when you mentioned how it induces anxiety and guilt, I related too much
i am leaving this comment to further boost you in the youtube algorithm. you need more views.
An excellent channel that does indeed deserve it.
czcams.com/video/zRZblymtRDI/video.html
I have liked and commented your comment for the same reason
ye
Agreed
I have such a different experience from people with religion. I never had a problem with it because the way I was introduced to it as a kid. My great grandmother asked me if I wanted to go to church, she didn't force me at all. Around 13 when I didn't like going to church anymore I was allowed to leave with no fuss. My great grandmother loved me just as much as she did before. Even though she was heavily religious she was one of the most open minded and friendly people in the world being one of the most immediately accepting people when my brother came out as trans. This is why I seem to have a differing view on religious people because my great grandmother and even the majority of people in the church were extremely nice and non judgemental. She's battling dementia at the moment, and I'm not able to visit her as much as I should, but I miss her a lot she was one of the biggest role models in my life.
I wish you and your family the best. I'm always happy to hear stories like this. Religion doesn't have to tear families and communities apart, and it's a shame so many religious people make it so anyways. Still, no group is a monolith, and I'm glad your community have been kind and accepting.
The political party one, while not the extremes put up in this video, were not too far from what was expected of me in reality. When my family learned I was a democrat it was like hell broke loose.
The trump effect or extremism
Linking religion to politics too much blurs the line for the simple hardworking people
Welcome back, Mr Trees! Excellent work as always. Society B please.
Cheers! Be nice to see at least some kind of shift in the direction of society B in our lifetime wouldn't it.
Indeed.
@Joe bloggs me too but I've been binge watching these
@Joe bloggs he usually averages the same view count as subscriber count. It is odd
I feel like society B would lead to a huge amount of atheists in no time, it's not a very stable society
The first part, up to 3:14 described my childhood almost exactly. Born and raised in Soviet Union. Later i would realize that the Communist party borrowed almost all the attributes, rituals, hierarchies and indoctrination techniques from the Orthodox Church
Yeah, it’s one of Orwell’s critiques in Animal Farm levied at Stalin (the crow who talked about a land of eternal happiness and plenty of food). I’m not sure how you were raised, but I’m sorry you had to go through indoctrination at all. Not all leftists arise from indoctrination, but it’s a disgusting tactic to be denounced wherever it emerges
I will most likely never understand the pains of being indoctrinated, but it burns my heart to know so many people had to go through this abuse and mistreatment that should've phased out a millennia ago.
If anyone who is going through that abuse, I believe in you and I know you can get through it. There is a bright future ahead and I know you will find it one way or another. I know you will find your true home, even if you have to leave some people behind.
I believe in you.
I hope you will find salvation somewhere.
You are currently indoctrinated into multiple things. You understand it perfectly well, should you just reflect on yourself.
I have just now started looking into Atheism, and I'm very thankful you've found your stuff. You do a very good job at explaining all of this in such a neutral and easy to understand way
Cheers - glad you've found the videos useful.
So you believe you came existence by chance? And that you have no objective purpose? Crazy
@@ismailmounsif1109 I'm bad at recognizing sarcasm sometimes, and I genuinely cannot tell whether this is or isn't sarcasm
@@ellies_silly_zoo sadly for atheists there is no sarcasm because they fully believe in this insanity.
@@ellies_silly_zoo did I said you are an atheist? I just said that because you said is my comment sarcastic? and I said for atheists it is not.
This is so crazy y’all!! Anyone else just realizing you were indoctrinated?? I never thought of it this way and it explains so much. I wasn’t free to think for a large portion of my life. And it still affects me to this day like he said compliance, anxiety, emotional thinking.
I was born in Iran and I came to this country when I was 16. Back in my home country, we were forced to take religious studies (Islam) all throughout high school. Most of my relatives were devout Muslims and it was practiced openly. I was always skeptical and never really believed it. Being here in the United States I was exposed to Christianity and being curious attended some churches. I never realized how much influence the church has on people here, To me it was a shocker. To make the long story short it created a lot of conflict in my thinking and I almost believed it to be true. I would question it and people around me would look at me like I was out of my mind, It created a lot of anxiety in mt life,
2:34 *The moment that changed everything.* When I went to that pulpit and recited the words, affirming my belief in the bible as the inerrant word of god, *I knew for a fact that I was lying.* I had never read more than a handful of stories in the bible in sunday school. Most of it remained a total mystery, and thousands of denominations came to totally different conclusions about it.
*The only way* I could come back up there and say those words honestly would be if I read the bible for myself, and came to my own conclusions.
I did. My conclusions weren't what they wanted them to be. Some even had the gall to say I was "never really a christian." Seriously? Just because I, unlike them, *actually cared?*
If you proffessed to believe the Bible to be the innerrant word of God, but you knew you were lying, how were you a Christian?
Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
It isn't the profession that makes a Christian, but faith in the Christ through the word. If you know your profession was a lie, why marvel when people say you weren't a Christian? You didn't believe.
Lying to yourself is a thing. I was *told* to say I believed in this stuff, so I did. I believed it because, as far as I could tell at the time, I had no reason not to. But I had never actually *investigated* the claim.
If I wasn't a christian, then *nearly all christians on earth* who have never read their bible cover to cover and thought about it are also not christians.
It's the same as saying "I agree to the terms and conditions" without reading them in a contract. You've done it, I've done it, it's a thing people do.
Of course I had "Faith in Jesus", faith is literally just gullibility. Accepting claims on insufficient evidence. I was a *child* , I had that in spades.
If you want to wind up with "real christians" rather than me, than you'd better wait until children have an adult reading level, have read the bible cover to cover, and ask them if they believe without coercion of hundreds of judging eyes staring down at them. But be aware there won't be many left.
Asserting something which is not evidently true is lying. I did so *because* I had faith, which is gullibility. I was told to believe these things and profess as such even though I had no reason to.
Most believers can live like that. I couldn't, because I actually took the claims seriously. I actually considered "well, what if one of those other denominations or religions is right, and _I'm_ the one being lied to?"
I decided in that moment to care more about *the truth* than *faith* , because I'd be insane not to, with so much proposed to be on the line. That every ceremony and ritual I had done for 18 years could have been a total waste of time.
*Every* denomination of *every* religion has "faith." They're not all right. The truth survives scrutiny. The bible did not.
That’s what you get for being a free thinking heathen
Can we put this on national television?
Why stop at national?
Would be too controversial for national TV. Sad, but so many religious people would protest, resort to violence, and downright lie to others just to get them to hate it too. Religion and politics are both horribly flawed, but followers of both think they are perfect, and are unwilling to accept any reasonable thoughts that conflict with their belief system. This has a name too, called “groupthink”. When groups become too tightly knit, they refuse to accept any ideas that don’t fit their beliefs or ego.
"Have you seen that Theramin guy's videos attacking christianity?"
"Oh, not yet"
"Good, stay away from them, it's a lot of manipulative brainwashing disguised as science to poison people against god's truth."
...It's worth betting on that being very close to the exact reaction. Indoctrinated people will _not_ allow it, much less watch it.
I was taught young earth creationism in SCIENCE class, at my "Baptist" school. Christ, am I glad I got out of there early enough to lose faith, completely.
This content really strikes a cord with me... I was heavily indoctrinated as a child in the mormon church. My parents are still mormon. I recently told my dad that if they did constantly force it on us they may have had a chance with us staying in the region and his response was "that may be true... but if I let you quit going to church the next thing you'd know we would be regularly bailing you out of jail" his argument was.... honestly absolutely stupid.
When I was a child, I was raised with Pentacostal beliefs, but luckily my love for science and creative fiction helped me in the long run. I had already known some biblical details as metaphorical, and I was slowly cracking free from my religion over the course of a decade ½. And now at 19 I'm finally free, and it's thanks to people like you on CZcams as well as the very different people in my personal life.
You are not free, Religion; came from the word relegere "to bind", "place an obligation on," or "bond between". The nations and $250 trillion debt plus interst, this is really the Religion of the world. Born into slavery, sold into slavery, and choose to die in slavery. Mammon is the name of the demon, that in which you live as a sacrifice. Mammon in Hebrew (ממון) means "money".
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." This obliging people to an irrevocable adherence of "Bad faith” and fraud, to serve death, where you are required to sell your body for debt.The securities for debts; the guarantors for debts to idols, that you have nothing with which to pay, and you don't have the ability to pay.
The thing is most religions wouldn't survive if they raised their children that openly.
All the more reason for children to be raised that openly.
"It's not a loving act to hug a child so tight you crush its bones." Excellent.
At 31 days of age, I was sent to my local Church to be baptized in Greek Eastern Orthodoxy.
I was a baby, I had no idea what was happening.
At age 10, my Nationalist beliefs started to intensify, I became so Islamophobic and so intolerant.
At age 13, and I had already been suffering from Gender Dysphoria prior to that, I learned about Trans people, and it explained all the sadness I had. Anyways, I became more tolerant after realizing I was Trans, however, my religion did not fit my idea of tolerance.
So, in May of this year, I stopped identifying as a Christian, and starting identifying as an Atheist.
Later, I took the bible from my room and threw it in the trash.
Religion made me lose friends, credibility, respect and the idea of tolerance.
I will not go back into religion ever again.
Should have recycled it- put it to some real use
@@christophervolk6087 Religion and the Bible are overrated anyway. Recycling that Bible into a comic book or something would be more beneficial.
@@DansuB4nsu03 true
As someone with a hindu nationalist parent, I proudly accept British values.
I wish I could think like you, Theramin Trees. You're insights are invaluable. I'm sick of the "Free pass" religion gets even in the most progressive societies. An idea is not bolstered by its popularity or support; absurd garbage is garbage whether its of Yahweh or a flying spaghetti monster.
Hey at least the old gods are making a comeback.
to see the state of political discourse 7 years after this video was posted is wild.
I've been trying to be indoctrinated by adults into all of their own religions since a very early age.
For some odd-reason, my brain just doesn't let me take the bait. I always told them flat out that what they were teaching me made no sense. It took up till age 5 for me to catch on that this "god" thing they kept talking about was baloney because I just never saw him. I thought it was the adult's own grown-up "imaginary friend" that I just couldn't see because he was "their" imaginary friend. I was convinced that I was just not "old" enough yet and when I got older, he would reveal himself. At age 5, I started to see... that these people were one sammich short a picnic, and I told them as much straight to their faces, much to my own parent's embarrassment/amusement.
Let's just say ..... the religious adults didn't like me. XD
Today, it's the same, except adults are still trying to indoctrinate me once they find I am atheist. It's like they got wind about the one that " slipped through the cracks" and they must finish... by ANY and ALL means necessary what the hive mind started. They are convinced that I am just rebelling, or just was scared away by a few bad apples of the church, or just hate their god. The thing they fail to recognize is... I never was one of them. Besides, I can't hate something that doesn't exist.
I was just born with certain family members and dragged to the party on occasion, because a family member saw a wild heathen-spirited child and wanted them indoctrinated post-haste. They saw I was different. They saw I had no fear of their god or their teachings. They saw that I could laugh, play, joke and be carefree and actually participate in being an actual kid most of the time. The more they tried, and the more it just didn't stick and I didn't take them seriously, the more upset they became and they even tried the psychological abuse, shaming, fear, gas-lighting, gang-stalking. They partook in the withholding of information, treats, supplies, playtime, hugs, participation and food, you name it. Sometimes, I was made an example of to the other kids that "this is what happens if you don't shut up and nod along to the obvious phoney baloney we spew."
Then they tried to graduate to strait up physical abuse only to realize that might work on their kids... but I ain't their kid.
Because I ain't their kid, I had no issue fighting back, kicking, pinching, biting, punching and throwing things like a little hellion like I was taught to do when an adult or anyone was trying to cause me undue harm. Sometimes, I'd just be sitting there coloring, doing homework, or playing with my toys, and they'd just be glaring at me, like "how dare she have fun by not doing Christian kid activities?" In my experience, Xtian kids, at least the ones raised in the more culty households, were boring as SIN. All they did was sit around, talk about the bible, color their religious themed coloring books, sing these creepy brainwashing songs in a circle, and watch these dry/cheesy xtian programing that made me want to kill myself from boredom. If they watched tv and some character was meditating or doing yoga, fiddling with some wee-gee board, or was wearing a yin-G-yang, or a "broken cross", aka peace sign, they were going to hell. Gleefully assuming who is going to burn in agony for all of eternity is seriously a fun game for xtian kids, because that's all they hear their parents talk about.
Sometimes, the religious friends and family would visit my house, I'd be sitting there minding my own business, reading my "secular" books and playing my "demonic" video games and watching my "worldly" tv. They'd just stare, and stare and STARE at me with these glazed-over eyes like I was their prey that was behind a glass wall that they couldn't get to. It all came to a head one day, they couldn't be silent and kept away forever, and one aunt just came over harshly scolded me for playing with a "demonic" toy that she off handedly commanded that I "put down at once". I thought she was playing around, so I began playing with it again. Until she slapped me as hard as she could. (It was a large 90's Power Rangers robot. The Megazord one). Beetleborgs was also my shit, who basically were bug-Power Rangers, and she didn't like that either. She didn't even like Barbie, and though I didn't own Cabbage Patch dolls, she thought even they were "demonic". With everything being "demonic", it's a wonder most xtian kids don't just sit and watch a wall all day, but I guess even that could be considered "witchcraft" if you spin it right enough.
Aunt Dorris was a distant, visiting aunt during a family lake trip, and she didn't quite get the memo that I was not one of those kids that got beat, and was not trained to just sit there and take it. So, with that being done, and as a reflex, I slammed the heavy "demonic" toy right in her face, chest and back of her head over and over again as hard as I could until she left the room. Let me tell you, when she slapped me, she slapped me to the point where my face ate the carpeted floor, my teeth bit into the inside of my mouth, and I felt my neck twist sharply and I was seeing spots. My personality is far more fight over flight/freezing up, and because I did absolutely nothing wrong, I just let her have it. She cried like a baby when my dad yelled at her and right in her face for assaulting me over a toy he bought with his own cash. She couldn't even make up a lie and say I was being "bad" or something. She just point blank told my dad she struck me because of a toy she didn't like that was demonic and was "not for little girls". Oh, yeah, xtian kids tend to be very, very, very segregated with the types of toys they can play with, the boys especially. Nothing pink for them whatsoever.
She was in a complete frenzy, purple-faced, sobbing and shaking, and I couldn't help but question if she were the "demonic" one. Her anguish at getting hit back by a kid and having no one back her up, I thought she was going to start walking on walls and spitting pea soup, she was that hysterical. That probably never happened to her before to be honest. I will never forget how she stopped her sobbing and stopped short as if she had been hit with an arrow in the back when my dad said I was right to defend myself. My dad of all people was just not amused at their methods. Because the toy was heavy and it actually did do quite a number on her face, head and hands, Dad told me not to hit Aunt Dorris again, but instead to run and let him know if she did it again. Her slap did leave a bruise, and it was my first introduction to a thing called "makeup concealer" so I could cover it up.
I could tell my dad thought me bashing my aunt over the head with a toy was funny, and he was only saying to not hit her again because my mom was listening at the time. He didn't like Aunt Dorris and Aunt Dorris didn't like him, because he was a "heathen" as well. Aunt Dorris of course ran and told everyone in her little church and anyone who would listen about the ordeal. Telling my parents that I needed to be beat, controlled, sent to a religious school and taken out of my schools I liked so much, that I was going to end up in jail, to spare the rod, pride cometh before a fall, "if she were my kid", this, and "if she were my kid" that. Well, I'm not your kid, thank jebus, and the universe.
Thankfully, most of my family is not this way, but I've hung around lots of other people in my family to know that religion is NUTS. I want no part of it. My mom may not be perfect, she may be a narc, she may have some religious residue herself from her own family but I thank my lucky stars that I wasn't born to one of my many religious aunts and uncles, and that my non religious dad wasn't putting up with any of their nonsense. To this day, I can respect those who are religious... but most of the time, it always boils down to the predictable and the inevitable, they WILL try to convert me. Then the cycle starts aaaaaalll over again. I've learned my lesson, and as far as the very religious people go, I tend to just keep my distance. No good has ever come from me blending in with hyper religious folks. They pull some of the most outlandish, sinister, wtf things behind closed doors that most people not familiar with them will not believe, or will not want to believe. Heck, some of the people who witness this every day, or even have a hand in it themselves will try and shut you up, or say you are just "exaggerating". But I will tell you every single diabolical thing they pull is true, and it must be known, no matter how questionable their actions sound. It is 100% real. Some kids born into these religions and cults have been through more unbelievable, mind-numbing, over the moon stuff than you can even imagine, all in the name of some sky thing. When they say they are not of "the world", they mean it... they are clearly not on Earth, they're on planet Wackadoodle. Far, far, far, far away in a dimension where space is a purple ocean of space jam...orange flavored, planets are upside down sky-blue pyramids, and they rotate around a glowing block of cheese like a 90's computer screensaver. That's where they are, and they ain't coming back. Don't believe the smiles and the fluff, pretty songs, watered down Sunday school, occasional free food, the charity (which is mostly out to help their own), and "good news". Something sinister lurks behind all of that. I know what it looks like, and I will talk about it when I can, because some things need to be said about these kinds of people. The shit they have gotten away with, and continue to get away with is just too much. Stay away.
The Red Sterling Mc'Bae you are my hero. I am sometimes racked with guilt over how I allowed myself to be so complacent for so long (I am 34 years old) to the point where I feel I am overly complacent in all aspects of life, not just religion. I am just now starting to learn how to think critically again and often find myself wondering why I accepted so many things at face value until well into adulthood when the many flaws in them are so plainly visible to me now. I feel like a broken, useless cog in a wheel manipulated into wasting his life for the sake of making someone else lots of money and power at the expense of my youth, mental well-being, and credit report. It’s good to know you won’t experience anything like that.
I loved your story, heck, I chuckled a little!
That was a trip
True Malad right here
@@SerDerpish... Same here
Thank you so much for making this! I really gives words to what I've had trouble describing sometimes looking back at the years I was religious. I unfortunately developed religious OCD from an early age, and the fear, shame, blind obedience to authority, lack of trust in others, and dread of novel experiences continues to give me pain years after becoming nonreligious. But I'm slowly recovering!
I'm Wiccan,and our High Priestess said that her parents and in laws are Christian. She said when her daughter visits either set for the weekend, the little girl comes back and tells her how awesome church was..she doesn't mind her daughter going to church bc she wants her exposed to as many faiths as possible so she can choose, or choose against, following a faith that she's done research on and agrees with personally. She said that after ritual,her daughter tells her grandma how amazing Sabbat was. She said "My daughter's too young to pick,so i'm going to let her be little"
Indoctrination didn't work on me, because well... I'm an idiot. so honestly, I sat there in church, and I didn't listen at all, or care, it went in one ear and out the other. I just never took it seriously enough to build that foundation around it.
That's hilarious
Saaaaamme. I was only there because they wanted me to be. I'll smile and laugh and sing but I legitimately did not give a fuck about it. All I cared about was my DS, Pokémon Soul Silver and my family.
Unfortunately for my parents, I was born as an intelligence user
Holy crap! This video is awesome.
As are the rest on his channel.
My reaction
another eternally damned comment
My boyfriend is 18 and in failing to accept to dedicate his whole life to his family’s religion he’s being abused, punished and treated like non-family... sadly, this extends beyond childhood
I consider myself to be highly fortunate. I was born with cerebral palsy, and during my childhood, my parents had me undergo a program of rigorous physical and mental exercises that allows me the ability to function as an independent adult today. This program had to be conducted eight hours a day, seven days a week, and required volunteers from all walks of life. As a result, my first exposure to those outside my family, consisted of a truly beautiful and diverse group of people, not all of them coming from my own cultural background.
The diversity I experienced in my childhood, however would have an interesting side effect that allowed my young mind to rebel against attempts of indoctrination. In yeshiva (a Jewish parochial school), I once asked my Rabbi, "if we (the Jews) were the chosen people, why did God waste his time creating everyone else?" You could imagine that didn't go over very well.
I still consider myself to be Jewish, but I see it more as a conscious choice. I don't buy into the politics of my faith, and as an individual, I see some aspects of it's dogma to be just plain wrong. At the end of the day, all religions serve as a social construct that's needed in some human lives to give it definition.
Provided that we can ferret out the abuses that some people engage in, while hiding behind scripture, it may be possible to live and let live ... with love.
@Michael Freed My favorite question that I never asked until a couple years ago was "Why were we created at all?" or "Why were we given free will if we would be punished for using it?"
Thank you for the insight, this really helped me out a lot! I've identified as an agnostic for almost 4 years now and I've been raised in a very religious and conservative household in an even more catholic and conservative country (Philippines). I can say with absolute certainty that for most of my life (even in my school) I've been heavily indoctrinated. It sucked tbh ahaha
You're a wonderful human being and I hope you have a nice day/night ✨✨
I’ve scrolled through all these comments, and yours has been the most (and perhaps only) nuanced take
Holy hell, as someone with cp myself & had the privledge of meeting all types of people, it is wonderful to see someone like me here. Granted I was baptized catholic twice. I never had to be chained to a certain religion. Rather free to explore & learn as much as I could. I agree it is a social construct but I do think there is something out there good & divine watching everything. It may not be the god or goddess descrided by religion but there has to be something. Have you ever had any paranormal encounters?
the secret ingredient is fear, works every time.
Yes, it is. People habe many fears. Find the most popular and you can direct a society...
This video feels so freeing to me. When I began to think critically I went through a phase of cognitive dissonance. The amount of guilt, shame, and anger I felt was almost too much for me to bear with my depression, anxiety, and undiagnosed ocd at the time. I still remember my friend telling me I would be empty the rest of my life if I didn’t find my way back to God and I was already struggling with suicidal thoughts. I was envious of those who could believe everything so easily. I spent months thinking something was inherently wrong with me, having panic attacks because god wouldn’t help me through my egregious mental breakdowns since I didn’t have enough “faith.”I blamed myself for what I went through. The abandonment and self-loathing I experienced was so crushing it led me to self injury. Indoctrination was one of the things that nearly killed me, and I don’t think I’ll ever get over it because of how angry I am everytime I have to go to any sort of worship. It disgusts me. I wanted to believe so desperately I searched anywhere and everywhere for something that could convince me beyond a reasonable doubt and it didn’t work. I was still terrified of hell even after I stopped believing and it made the transition so much harder. The anxiety and fear was just terrible. Thank you so much for these videos. I may be 6 years late but It feels so comforting to have these experiences validated and my thoughts put into such well thought-out words. To anyone else who has suffered from this, I am so sorry and I hope you can heal from it and that you are more free now.
My mom tried to give me her religion. My dad was rather 'meh' about religion. It was more of a social gathering for him. I remember being in Sunday school and learning the same things over and over. I wanted to learn different things. I asked questions, and never got good answers. I grew to despise the phrase "God works in mysterious ways" and so, being the stubborn 5-7 year old that I was, I threw a fit every time I was made to go to church. It didn't help that I was made to wear girly clothing to church at a time when I was just beginning to realize that maybe I didn't want to be a girl.
My mom finally relented and went to church without me. Years later, as a tween and teen, they attempted to bring me back by doing Harry Potter themed activities when I was extremely into Harry Potter. I suspect my mom asked the Sunday school teacher specifically to do that for me- but that could be a little egocentric of me.
Years later, in my mid to late teens, when I figured out that god was nothing more than adult Santa Claus, I discussed my athiesm with my mom. I didn't realize that she would abuse me for it.
Fights every chance she got where she would attempt to guilt-trip me, ask me questions in bad faith, and then would never let me answer them. I wasn't allowed to give my reasons because it was "too upsetting to her that her only daughter was going to hell" and "where did she go wrong in her parenting that my eternal soul would burn forever". It was shocking to me. She hadn't gone to church in years, and yet she was suddenly acting like a Baptist fire and brimstone preacher. It took her several years to get over it, but we also learned never to bring it up around her.
But all my subsequent, and more important discoveries about myself were kept from her after that fiasco. Athiesm was so unimportant to me- because it was so patiently obvious. But when I learned I was gay, when I learned I had anxiety and depression, when I learned that my mom is abusive, when I learned that I'm probably not a woman... Those things were all kept from her because of her reaction to my rejection of such a silly thing as adult Santa Claus. I didn't want to be bullied more than I had to be if I could help it.
I forgot to keep my Autism from her. I was very excited about my diagnosis, because it let me know that most of the things I always hated about myself (and was always bullied for) was not my fault. It may have come up in response to mom bullying me for doing something autisic, and therefore something I couldn't control. (I think it was either my terrible hearing or terrible memory).
So yeah. Long rambling story short, an indoctrination was attempted on me, and was partially successful, but was thankfully botched. I couldn't be more grateful that my area is fairly secular, that my mom's church is relatively open-minded, and that my stubborn child self won that fight. All of those things had to go right for me to break my chains.
@Time to Reason I am Autistic. I never said I was unintelligent.
My Autism means that I'm more sensitive to light, sound, touch, smell, and flavor than neurotypical people. I can't read sarcasm well. I like acting because it's a safe way to practice social situations, and I'm good at it because I am always pretending to be a neurotypical. I like singing because it is repetitive, it is an expression of emotion, and the vibrations in my chest feel nice. Social situations are exhausting because they're too stimulating, and I must always maintain a mask of neurotypicality.
Autism doesn't mean "unintelligent", it means "different".
@deadend Well, it depends on how you define "sex". If "sex" is defined as XX chromosomes, then sure, I concede the point. But "sex" is not the same as "girl".
Tell me, do you pull down people's pants and make sure they have a penis before you call them "sir"? Do you check to see if they have breasts before you call them "ma'am"?
What about children? Children don't have breasts. They don't have beards. How do you know they're a boy or a girl? Do you pull down their pants before you call them "boy" or "girl"?
I don't have breasts. I don't have a beard. I wear men's clothes. Unless you want to pull down my pants- an action reserved for *only* people I like, and you certainly do not qualify- why would it matter to you what I was born as?
With medical help, I could grow a beard. With medical help, a trans woman can grow breasts. With medical help, I could have a cock and balls. With medical help, a trans woman could have a labia and vagina. "Man" and "woman" aren't based on chromosomes.
What does it matter to you if I'm trans? "Sir", "ma'am", "boy", "girl" aren't really based on anything biological. So why does it matter to you?
Fantastic post, thanks for sharing.
Thank goodness that you took such a strong note of what kind of person your mother was. You spared yourself so much pain. In my case, I was so in denial about my opinion of my siblings that I consistently self-sabotaged to see if I could ever get them to deviate from their ways. For seven years. There was just no way I was right..
Sorry to burst your bubble but calling God the adult Santa Claus is a disgustingly hefty straw man and demonstrates an ignorance or simply lack of understanding on the subject. Billions of people don’t believe in something like Christianity over two millennia for no reason. On the other note I’m glad your family and church ended up being open minded and gracious enough to give you peace with your decision
I was indoctrinated into Catholicism and I remember being brought up by parents who would die for the religion I remember my parents telling me about how LGBT people were going to hell and how God didn't like them I think the first time I really started to question the religion was when I started having a crush on a girl I remember feeling horrible and guilty because I had a crush on a girl thankfully I managed to keep myself together until I left my house which was when I came out my parents and I don't talk anymore due to that but we never got along very well either so
My neck hurts from agreeing so much. Great stuff
I adore you, Link. At least , I do as much as one can in a parasocial setting! I've said this in your comments before, but it bears repeating. Your combination of clear-headed reasoning and profound, unrelenting compassion is what so many of us need. I'm 37 and now just starting to engage with the complex trauma around the cult I was born into. I'm starting to identify more and more of the ways I was poisoned, and starting to actively seek support around it.
Your channel is an example of how a "New Atheist"-era channel can morph into something that continues to put out relevant content and take atheism in a pro-social direction. It's like: of COURSE there's no gods. Of COURSE religious upbringing is child abuse. The question is: what do we do about it? There are answers to this in your videos. Your 1% dislike ratio shows how many people want to hear your message. Please, please continue to do this important work. Also, I finally got on Patreon and became a supporter!
Thank you Azalea - I recall your last kind comment. Thank you also for your support on the sponsor site. It feels, doesn’t it, like we’re collectively getting to grips a lot more with the aftermath complexities of experiences in manipulative environments. The state of conversation 12 years ago felt to be predominantly about fallacies and arguments. Important as it is to address those things, it feels like the conversation has shifted substantially into reflecting on the underlying psychological conflict - and subsequent healing. That’s where the channel’s main focus is now. I’m glad you’re successfully identifying the poisons you experienced - here’s to flushing our poisons away! Peace, Link.
“But it’s not a political party, it’s a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP!”
it's tax deductible
Ooohhhhhhh this was the phrase that REALLY got me to turn the deconstruction wheels in my head…
“It’s not about religion, it’s about a personal relationship with Christ!” a church I used to attend would day…ok, well there’s only one religion where Christ is the figure of it all soooo…how is it NOT about religion?
Like I said when I was 5-years old, “If you’re gonna get punished for criticizing something, then criticize it! If you’ll get punished for criticizing something, then your criticism probably isn’t unfounded. Silencing critics just proves them right.”
"I give my children the choice, they don't have to join us in church. But, if they don't I'll punish them and shame them to help them find Jesus"
JW in a nutshell
Could not avoid one of these ceremonies a few years ago, the Priest literally reached for the baby's head and said 'I claim this child for Christ'.
How this did not raise alarm among the host of sheep I don't know, though the father came out of it very remorseful that he'd agreed to such bullshit
'I claim this child for Christ'
-Nnn. How revolting.
"I claim this Child for My belief, no other belief shall have a chance, my Religion is the only religion this Infant can choose later in life!"
At least they are being honest with it?
They think, they are their god's right hand, but their religion should tell them it is blasphemia. Paradox. 😉
@@oOIIIMIIIOo oh they’re using god’s right hand all right.
This was exactly the issue that broke my Christian world apart recently. Asking myself, had I not grown up in a Christian family, would I still be one?
I was indoctrinated about as hard as you can be. Took me until i was about 30 before i worked it out. Don't go a day without shaking my head at the things i used to believe. Science can be thanked for opening my eyes.
it is real and it’s terrifying. i have dealt with immense scrupulosity for so long and i have no way of easing it or finding support due to my family being the only ones who are in my life as they basically convinced me to ditch my friends for my faith and the family. now i’m left with nobody and i’m being called names, being gossiped about, having scripture used against me to condemn me. i’m glad you’re speaking out on this.. thank you dear
I was never taken to church or prepped on religion at a young age. When I was seven a priest was brought into my public school (but not the classroom) and our class listened to him, and then pocket bibles were handed out. I read a few pages of Genesis and dismissed the book quickly as fantasy but realized several of my friends had not only known and read it, but fully accepted what was in it. Yet, that moment clearly pointed me away from religion. It just seemed too fantastical to believe. My parents were non-practicing christians. Only doing cub scouts was I ever taken to church formally.
When I was growing up, I didn't know that it was possible not to believe those stories - I just assumed everyone did. When I hear experiences like yours, it really gives me a sense of how crazy those tales would seem to other children who weren't immersed in the ideology.
I wish I could somehow sneak this into church services across my country and get the congregations to watch it and discuss it.
Sadly, any hint that it might be in any way anti-religion, atheistic or simply something other than what they believe, would immediately cause many of them to shut down and turn off.
Dude, it's not that hard to "sneak in" to a church service and talk to people. Most churches I've seen just kinda let people in with open arms as long as you aren't an asshole or something. Of course there are crazy ones that you should definetely avoid though.
stiimuli I am religious and watching this
@@hurbig Do you mind me asking what do you think of the video
For me, that conflicting idea was gender identity. I went through years and years of self-hatred, torment, self-harm, and even a suicide attempt. Five years later, when I informed my parents that I am a trans woman, they removed my bedroom door and spouted that I would be punished. The religion they believe in has a belief that *parents* will be punished should their children's beliefs not align with the church's.
Two years after that, my parents and siblings are no longer in my life. A few months ago I sent them a letter asking them not to contact me anymore, packed up my bags, and flew 4,000 km away. It has been a hard year, but I have tasted real joy and love since leaving. I have moved in with my long-time long-distance partner. I know what I was missing, and that is equally painful and beautiful.
To anyone reading the comments and watching this video not because you're already on the other side, like me, but you're unsettled and unsure and *fighting* with yourself, know that I've been there. Something inside you knows that something inside you is a lie.
I'm still wanting an answer for the following question:
If (insert religious deity) made you as you are, why are parents willing to mutilate the genitals of males but find it immoral to do the same for females? Why is it wrong for an adult to attend surgeries to alter their body because of a neurological condition that their natal sex doesn't align with the mental and emotional sex, but it's considered religiously moral to allow children to undergo permanent surgeries for eyelids (race), breast augmentation (sex), botox (age), and even bone lengthening (height)?
How are certain mutilations of the body is considered religiously moral while others are evil and immoral?
"and like a pebble in a shoe, we can't guite shake it off" never related more
I wish I had resources like this available to me when I was first escaping the abuse and indoctrination of Christianity
Comparing religion and God to a political party and their dictator, is right on so many levels.
that goes for atheism as well. Just thought I'd remind you. Because alot of people are getting the wrong idea about the video. The idea is letting your child decide. Forcing any kind of religion (including atheism) isnt right, and isnt healthy.
@@breadman2983 Atheism isn't a religion, it is the lack thereof.
Tall_Midget
Atheism is the absence of a religion. It’s like calling a shadow a color.
@@breadman2983 There punishment for asking questions in Atheism
@@videogamebomerwhat punishments i may ask?
I would love to start a discussion in here, but I really can't find anything I disagree with. Good to see you again!
Thanks!
@Michael Freed no, they're just saying they have nothing they feel is useful to add, such as an objection or a alternative.
@@TheraminTrees this video is the equivalent of being abducted and taken to a shed and stripped - and then told it was just a teaching lesson....
@@peppermint5117 Did you know that US Army Field Telephones are used for torture - one wire is put around the reproductive organ. Then a rubber glove is used to put the other wire in the mouth. This is taught by the CIA to US client states. Indoctrination does not just mean teach.
This is an excellent video. I am thankful that my inner atheist stopped me from doing this to my kids. I was 55 years old when I finally broke free of my own childhood indoctrination. Humanist/Atheist forever.
I was raised Roman Catholic and went to Catholic high school. As part of our Senior year curriculum, we all underwent the”Sacrament” of Confirmation (where you profess your lifelong membership in the church) in an all-school mass with our families present, presided over by the bishop. Even by that time, I knew I didn’t want to be Catholic; but felt, due to familial and peer pressure, that I couldn’t refuse. Proud to say that I don’t hold those beliefs, and stopped going to church as soon as I moved out a couple months later.
Interestingly enough, it was something I was taught in religion class sophomore year that fully decongested me. It was that when the angel Gabriel appeared to the gospel authors, he imparted to them the unerring word of god. But when that VERY SAME angel appeared to Mohammed, well he was just hallucinating in a cave, and everything he said is false. I was taught this as FACT, and I was like, seriously? You expect me to believe this?
I can't thank you enough for these videos. When I was a child, I'd never dream someday my life would have words like "child abusers" Yes it's horrible abuse to indoctrinate, and they liked to physically abuse too.
These are really good at examining many angles on things.
I was free thinking kid, I am so happy I realized, the evil and ignorance they were perpetuating on me. My Ah-ha moment was when the nun told me, that dinosaur bones were fake...I realized I could never stand behind something that would throw out proven facts. But that little time I was indoctrinated it has effected me psychologically and still gives me slight anxiety though I have gotten better. This happened when I was 10 was indoctrinated until then and I am now 30, this sticks with you for life.
Oh btw how I got out of indoctrination, I would ask and state uncomfortable things, they ended kicking me out of the school, because I was making other students question there faith and I was danger to the studies, went to public school, because I told my Mother I would keep doing it lol
It's always a good day when a new Theramin video drops. =)
when i was six my father died i was a Jehovah's witness i was told that the only way that i would see him again i would have to be steadfast in my beliefs as time passed i slowly became disillusioned with my beliefs and left when i was sixteen i am now twenty-one and since ive left i have suffered from depression as a result of what i believe to be my sub-conscious still holding on to that belief questioning my morality through the skewed view of a Jehovah's witness.
The aesthetics, the animation, the way you address and explain the topics in the video, this is some good quality content!!
(I don't really have anything to add to the conversation, I'm just commenting so more ppl learn about your work.)
Keep it up!
I can't express how happy I am right now. Thanks for coming back.
Aw, cheers ;8)
The "veil of ignorance" and "indoctrination bypasses consent" great points, favorite points.
Thank you for making these. I really appreciate it. :)
The church I grew up in would regularly use quotes and other teachings from several different religions as a way to teach us about those religions and not just Christianity. I haven't gone in a while for other reasons (lack of motivation to go mostly) but I will always be grateful to them and my family letting me spread my wings on my own.
That almost sounds like Unitarian Universalism. I love taking wisdom from the people who wrote it instead of treating it like it's an absolute truth given by god(s).
When I was a kid in the Methodist church I went through confirmation at around 12, and they showed us a bunch of videos and did activities with us teaching us about the church. I’d had the same reverend my whole life up to that point and she was very kind and made it clear that if I didn’t feel like I was ready to make a commitment to the church I didn’t have to, and it should be something I really felt strongly about. I didn’t really feel ready and the videos hadn’t cleared up much for me so I declined. Everyone else in confirmation hadn’t given it a second thought, and even though the reverend was kind to me the others in the church didn’t feel the same. They constantly talked about me and pressured me, and told my parents they were worried about me so I couldn’t even escape it at home as they passed that on to me. I ended up going through it again next year and even though I didn’t feel any stronger about my faith I said yes anyways because I didn’t want to embarrass my parents or deal with the gossip anymore. The people in my church didn’t really care what I thought or felt, they just wanted me to conform, and it’s crazy to think that Methodism is supposed to me a much more tolerant sect of Christianity
😮 21:42
It's great to have you back!
Cheers!
People don't look badly on political indoctrination.
Honestly people don't look badly on indoctrinating one's kids as much as you think.
It's looked down upon?
@@mallory5872 I think TheraminTrees' argument in the video is that if political indoctrination were conducted in the same way as religion, with ceremonies, private schools, etc, there would be more of an uproar if those were devoted specifically to a party. Now, certain strains like evangelical christianity are getting bolder in their political ideology, they still for the time being are mostly separating their Sunday rituals from their political party.
Still, though, it is sad that parental political indoctrination isn't condemned by wider society. Yelling at minors or belittling them for expressing a contrary view is an all too commonplace occurrence that feeds into authoritarianism.
Ppl's anger and frustration has grown so far that they've convinced themselves it's the only way their side can "win". A sad state of affairs...
Then you don‘t know me.
@@mennit4959 I'm not talking about every individual, just people in general.
Who do you vote for, what religion you follow, both seem to correlate a lot with the parents, specially the mother.
As if those were just a natural part of child rearing.
People like us will tend to disagree with the wider populous on that.
Your words in every video are so incredibly intelligent and have empowered me over time to become confident in my own beliefs, as well as talk confidently to others about why I believe what I do. I could rant for hours about how much I love the straightforwardness, understandability, and convincingness of all of your videos, but I’ll refrain and leave it at this.
From someone whose worldview you’ve changed for the better, thank you for the content you create. I sincerely hope you’re inspired to keep making content for a very long time!
I’m commenting for algorithm support. This channel is incredible.
When I was you, I would have to go to church, but I always thought that nothing I heard made sense, so I never really believed very strongly in religion and am strongly atheist now
Right, like Methuselah, who'd believe a human would live to nearly a millennium? Or Samson, tho I did particularly enjoy that story.
As someone whom of which grew up in a very religious (chiristianity) household in the midwest and homeschooled with a religous curriculum, it has been very hard to shake the guilt of not believing what my parents have forced onto me my entire life. Even now as a 26 year old, watching these videos have been a major relief in my life. I have been estranged from my parents and when I do visit my parents once every year or so, I feel very uncomfortable around them. They judge me in every aspect of my life and always press me about my "faith". Your videos have given me some solice and have given me a renewed strength to take control of my own life and have given me hope that life can be free from their omnipresent oppression. Thank you for your videos, they have given me freedom.
I still can remember when my mom shouted at me saying "you're going to hell if you don't believe in god", when I told them that I don't believe in their god.
It started to tell them my reason why I don't go with them to church anymore. I just went to church because of my parents and it's not my will. It's very exhausting and boring, and I had to fake my personality.
Is an action pious because “God” likes it, or does “God” like it because it is pious?
-Plato’s Socrates, talking to Euthyphro
It's after watching videos like this one that make me happy that my parents (though both from a Christian background and are believers) didn't make a big deal out of religion. Yeah, we went to church for holidays with our grandparents sometimes, but even then they didn't force us to go to church when we spent the night with them.
Personally, because of the freedom my parents gave me to explore religion, I tried the whole christianity thing. I loved reading, still do, and stories of magic and weird happenings will always be my favorite, so I read a children's bible picture book. The stories were interesting and I was a curious 9 year old, which led me to trying out praying before bed. It was weird and uncomfortable and I've been an atheist ever since. But it was my choice to explore different avenues and find what made me comfortable.
This channel is outstanding. OUTSTANDING. It’s empowered me to speak for myself and enter into a whole new world of personal freedom. 40+ years of indoctrination is difficult to overcome, especially without support. The content of @TheraminTrees has literally changed my life and given me permission to think critically and take necessary steps to reach my full potential. Thank you for sharing your talents with us. Always so eloquently articulated. 🙌
It is breaking my heart to watch children in my family being so cruelly indoctrinated into Christian fundamentalism. It’s such a helpless feeling. Grateful that pesky pebble in my shoe refused to dislodge. Perhaps the children will look to me someday and feel safe…it’s the only way I can attach meaning to any of this.
Wow, I had no idea you were aware of my childhood story. The only mistake I could find is that my name isn't Ben.
I'm curious what people think about this. What if you're an atheist, and you teach your child openly about religion you teach them critical thinking, logical fallacies, the whole nine yards. What would you do if your child started to go towards a religion you knew wasn't healthy, a cult, like the Jehovah's Witnesses? Would it be just to let them go into it because they're acting on their own freewill? Or would it be just to prevent them from going?
That's a hard one, since cults like scientology and mormonism are demonstratably hurtful and run by evil people, but can we really say that mainstream religions aren't?
You should discourage your child from making foolish decisions, like becoming a Scientologist, Catholic or drug addict. But absolute prohibitions are likely to be counterproductive, driving them to rebellion and a sanctimonious feeling of persecution. So, it's often better to ease off and let them find good paths.
Explain to them the inconsistencies in whatever it is they wish to join, and why that religion doesn't fit with a world view built upon critical thought. Show them this youtube channel.
*****
I don't think that's fair to say, considering human beings did not evolve to think critically, it's not possible that we're all going to objectively weigh up every cult fairly 100% of the time.
What if somebody falls into an existential depression (and I think 100% of the atheist demographic do at some point) and it just so happens in their moment of weakness they agree to come along to a meeting?
It's the social element that has such a huge draw, and I think most of us are susceptible at some point.
*****
I'm less than convinced, I'm under the impression that "free will" is a religious belief in itself. It's not yet known if there are any internal factors that predispose people into joining cults or not. That's just the point I'm trying to make.
_"train up your child in the way of the lord and they will not depart from it"_
train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.
i was reminded of this verse as well. in retrospect, i'm realizing how messed up this is.
I feel like these videos are the religious equivalent of the warning stickers on cigarettes.
My sister was actually legally abducted from my mother by a catholic woman - with religious grooming as the intent, she viciously fought against my mother for custody of the child; with suspicious background activity such as the constant changing of case managers and extensive manipulation of the officials involved...
...my mother never saw her daughter again after she was two, and has since passed away; leaving my sister unable to know her mother at all...
As for me, I may never know her either; who knows what kind of outlandish beliefs that woman has pumped into my sister's head, if I were to explain my beliefs, I could trigger something that would either force her away in denial; or plant a seed of critical thought and inquiry (after all - she has the genes for it!)
Thats turly awful. How can something like that even be legal
@@videogamebomer I know right...
It's amazing though, i can even stand to emphasize with that awful person though; she honestly believes she's doing good with this indoctrination business [she apparently has three other foster children, and one child of her own] - blinded by faith, she is not aware how truly damaging her actions have been: *my mom died without seeing her daughter again.* She had even lost me for some time [custody battle (irk), though dad is thankfully not religious haha] until we regained contact just five years before she passed - hadn't seen her in about as long...
But yeah, these religious folk are blinded in abraham's faiths; they themselves don't see outside their indoctrination! Simply because that is what is programmed into them...
Even though i left a religious cult still i struggle with the programming and indoctrination its in my subconscious now
Beginning of this sounds pretty accurate to American politics