Chasing After a Massive Kick and Snare Sound with One Mic - RCA 44BX and RCA OP-6
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- čas přidán 19. 03. 2019
- For this week, I'm chasing after some massive sounds with just one mic, and I'm trying to find out how the position of this mic can change the sound. There is a huge difference in the sound with very small changes of position.
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Really appreciate the hard work and amount of editing that goes into your videos! You’ve opened up a whole other side of recording.
5 was my favorite too. And thanks for doing this great service with ribbon mics for their amazing capture of the true shape and character of sounds!
Thanks for doing this Ryan. It’s good to see some real experimentation. Whatever the results. I like your attitude of, “I wonder what happens if...”
You do such a wonderful job! Thank you for all videos!
Awesome Ryan, keep up the great work! :)
Man, all your video's are great. Thank you!
Great tonal variations and use of the big 44 for special drum sounds. So much drum character. So many creative videos Ryan! I know it takes a lot of setup and hard work and time to do these awesome videos. I'm loving all the ribbon mic and op-6 stuff you're doin'.
Thanks man! Figured I’d film the hell out of it while I can.
That snare sound 👌 Sounding good man!
Awesome video Ryan, thanks!!
Very fun experiment, thanks for doing it! Like everyone else, I loved 3 & 5. I’ve recorded drums before with a single AEA R84 and got very pleasant results, so I appreciated seeing all your different placements :)
Great content man , keep up the awesome advice you always give us, nice playing by the way. thanks
Thanks Angle!
Great video!
5 in the first test, cut highs and balanced things for me. It’s amazing how good it can sound with one mic! I think your ears are really great, by the way. I’ve always been impressed by your ability to be observant on a very high level. Also... I Love that mic. Ha ha... I can only stop by once in a great while or I start buying microphones at an alarming rate after seeing yours! Sheesh!!
You deserve more subscribers. I appreciate your editing and quick comparisons for different takes. Other videos will stop in between too long and you forget the sound differences between different takes or sounds.
I agree. Humans only hold accurate sound memory for only a few seconds (5-6), so the comparisons in Ryan's video are vastly more useful with all the care he puts in to the setup and editing. Not to mention Ryan's videos are straight-up more interesting than boring pro audio videos that glaze over subtleties and technique.
Really man, you are on the top of internet instructors around, really enjoy your theory and practice on your videos. Cheeers !!!
Thanks Luis that means a lot. I make videos that I think would be cool and it’s nice when others think so too.
@@creativesoundlab I usually attend AES and Namm events but I don't think I have ever see you on the panels, maybe on the future?
I’d love that. My first namm was last summer and sometimes I can’t go as I’m one guy running everything here.
@@creativesoundlab Got it, hope to see you soon as a panelist on one of those events
My favorite mic position of all! I use ot in 2 ways: 1. To really fatten up the kit, as was evident in the more middle positions here. Compress, crank some low end, and blend to taste. 2. Closer to the drummer, aimed between the snare and kick, heavily compressed, maybe distorted, and can be used in a rock song by blending, or soloed as a special effect breakdown sort of thing. Bonus points for adding flange, phase, delay, reverb or even tremolo! So happy you've started messing with this! It's a total rabbit hole and always fun to do. Definitely one of my tricks guaranteed to give clients an "O" face! Oh, and I actually prefer, of all things, a plain ol' 58 for this technique. Maybe a 47 type thing if it's a more subtle application.
Before I owned a set of drum mics, I used to put a cheap dynamic on a small table top stand sitting on top of the kick, pointed at my knee. I did the job very well of getting the whole kit with not too much cymbals, with some extra low end through the stand! Those were the days haha! Great experiment Ryan, thanks!
wow@Moses Schneider for making Wurst a term for audio people all over the world :)
when doing live soundi usually use a sdc, pointed at the snare from a similar position as in your first examples, sometimes even pretty near the floor tom(s). i use it as a parallel conpression effect, mainly. heavy, fast, compression (12+db for snare hits). mix it in with the close mics. gotta be careful with it live, but i love the way it makes the kit and the hats breathe and come alive.
thanks for the video, very inspirational :)
5 sounds so big, and the toms just come in so nice. Definitely useable for a single mic recording.
Yeah totally. Add compression and EQ to taste.
You rock, doing these experiments I've always wanted to do, like many of us, but I don't have time for it :D Thanks for sharing.
P.s. you should take the effect of drum holes to consideration, as they boost the low frequencies by blowing the air out.
I liked the E position before all the processing.
Great Vid ! Thanks
love a big ribbon mic in front of a kit, as well as the position in the video. Also experimented with an EV 635a (omni) in similar positions with good results. a great mic to run through a guitar amp or overdrives for a really cool garage rock sound.
In order from favorite to least I'd say 5,3,4,1, and 2. All were really nice though. Great video!
Yeah I’d agree that they all were nice. My fav was H. Amazing snare sound.
That kit sounds excellent
Thanks!
5
(with comp)
I liked A & H at first.
But after a few more passes, I think somewhere between D & E would sit well in a mix.
Good Stuff as always...
que bueno ! en la posición H del bombo me encanta como suena y creo que es porque recoge parte del sonido por el orificio de salida de aire del bombo ! genial!
5 for me (more balanced). Although 3 second choice (has more snare). Nice one!! ;)
F was my favorite for kick tonal balance / open tonality.
Yes definitely number 5 and only because the ride cymbals volume.. maybe the ride could be moved further towards the floor tom? Not sure? Awesome video and amazing choice of everything lol Fat & Amazing 👍
3 and 5 for sure!
It be interesting to somehow place number 5 position but underneath the kick. Perhaps setting the drum set on a custom stage that allows underneath mic’ing. I’d also try it with Overheads/Underheads. Great stuff brother 🤘
I love to use a U47 in this position and hit it with an 1176 or FET style compressor. Really adds a great picture of the entire kit and adds some character to what sometimes can be boring drum tracks with a typical setup. What I’m hearing during the last section is it appears the further it is away from the kick batter head and closer it is to the resonant head, the lower the fundamental tone gets and vice verse. My guess is it has time for the waveform to develop (around 60hz) the closer it gets to the resonant head. Thank you for doing this!
Where exactly you place the 47? Which position?
❤this is awesome
I think some of what you're hearing in some positions is the air coming out of the tom and vent holes. In positions near the holes, it sounds to me like the extra column of air is inhibiting the treble response or effecting the way the compressor responds.
Interesting. I’ll need to check and see more about that. For the examples with toms, it was just the raw sound via the op-6.
With the A-Z demonstration, I would be curious to hear what it sounds like on a virgin bass drum. That bass drum effectively has two ports on the top that was probably playing a pretty big roll in the sound based on the placement of the mic.
Gotta love ribbon mics ♥️
A ribbon on the side of the kick gets a great kick sound - the problem I've often run into though is that the cymbal bleed sucks
Wild how the phase of the bass drum heads plays with the phase of the 2 (opposite phased) sides of the the ribbon! If they were not out of phase the drum would likely have sounded very thin. If you rotated the mic 90% what would happen? That way the combined out of phase sounds of the drum would get interesting maybe cancel out and give you a nice way to mic the toms - add another mic in there like you had the 44 placed and do a M-S on that to get both the kick and the Toms?!
Have you ever made drum samples? Could be a cool set of videos showing how it's done. At least the recording and editing process.
You pronounce "Wurst" just perfectly!
Question: did you try turning the ribbon mic 90 sideways? I'm guessing it would null out the kick and snare, right? Maybe you could stick the R88 in there (with difficulty) and get a crazy stereo image thing?
Love this kind of stuff! Helps us understand why things are done and not just how.
I like a cardioid condenser for this.
As a solo mic: above the kick pedal looking over the snare to the high-hat
As a crush addition: above the kick pedal facing the drummer.
This is absolutely amazing! It would be great and I would be very grateful if you made a follow up video! Some questions I have include how other mic types would sound like using the same positioning, if they where placed similarly and then equalized for a ribbon-mic type of curve.
I generally have a problem with hihat and ride sounding to close-up and crisp for my taste, so I could totally see myself recording drums with just one mic. The only real issue would be achieving a stereo sound, because other than that, this sounds perfect to me! Makes me think of Radiohead's 'OK Computer'. It overall reminds me of 90's alternative European recordings, both rock and other.
But why does the bass drum sound to me as if it was recorded in stereo when I listen to it on my headphones? They're good, pretty expensive headphones, and it only happens when the mic is above the bass drum. I guess it's an illusion, but if I'm not the only one, it could be an interesting thing to look at.
Edit: it doesn't seem to happen with the compressed examples. So strange
Thanks so much Herfinnur. I think the stereo kick drum....perhaps I left on Sonarworks when I exported the audio. Oops. But all the variations had it, so it was still a fair test.
This technique and 2 overheads can make a 3 mic setup to record drums. Seems really nice!
Yeah I’ve played around with it. It’s almost all the one mic and a little of overheads to help give it a stereo sound.
@@creativesoundlab That's what I thought!
is there a way to incorporate this one mic set up into a drum set that already has close mics on everything? and if so, what type of mic would work best? I'm sorta new to this audio stuff and would love any advice :)
I liked 1, 3 , and 5. Mainly 3 and 5.
E & G had some interesting attack sounds.
5 had the best balance and low end control for my taste
Hey Ryan ! Do you think that this method should be done only in case of using that one mic? Or can you use it together with conventional methods of miking kick and snare ? Great video as always :)
You can totally use it with other mics. It can be tricky and you gotta make sure the phase of this mic works with the kick snare and overhead. It takes a little flipping of polarity when mixing but I’ve gotten it to work.
@@creativesoundlab Thanks a lot ! Keep up the amazing work with your channel :)
My favorites were 3, 5, 4, H, B, and F
3 and 5 sound the best in my opinion!
I really like f and g compressed
Yep no. 5 is the best to me to
So.., NOT 4 then, agreed? B and maybe D and E too nicely bring out the fundamental of the kick. I like J for the more ambient feel. In all honesty, everything sounds forking awesome with that mic. Everything except 4 that is...
I think that the mic positions “F” & “K” were the best! (*My* favorites, at least..) The ring of the snare was very much subdued in both those positions (side note: suuuper interesting that the mic positioning alone was able to “EQ” out that ring... Defff gonna explore this more!) and the snare and kick sounds were verrry even and just beeeef!
I’d love to hear what happens when throwing up some OH mics (at least) or even going even further for a more complex mic setup, and hearing the “dick mic” mixed into the spread and hear the impact of its relationship to the phase and overall tone in each of the different “DM” positions (with the other drum mics remaining constant). This would be a badass experiment!
I too first heard of the “dick mic” from Sylvia Massey, she is so great, definitely one of my fav engineers/producers and her creativity and badass “tone experiments” per say, are extremely inspiring!! As is THIS channel!!
Keep up God’s work, man!
Cheers
Really cool comment man, thank you. Yeah I’ve tried with overheads and it’s cool too but I like to use just a little to give it the stereo sound and most of the weight comes from that dick mic. It’s a little of a mess when this mic has good polarity w the kick inside mic but bad polarity with the snare. I think I figured out that if you flip the overhead then you can flip the snare and that fixes it. But then your kick might not work with the overhead. It gets complicated but still a very useable mic.
5 definitely, followed by 3
number 5 is the best
Interesting experiments!
In regards to the wurst, I think that you should've experimented bringing the mic closer to the snare in order to get the drum machine-like sound this technique is usually aiming for. The normal procedure is to get the mic equidistant to the toms and the snare while pointing at the snare (this also means a ribbon mic might not be the best option if you also want a good balance of the toms). The idea is that instead of getting the vibe of the drums with tons of mics around them you put one mic between them. The way you did it sounds cool, but the snare always felt kinda far away, when the point of the technique is to make both the kick and snare super punchy. Not hating, just saying!
When it comes to the kick, while I haven't done any experiments, I think I have a theory as to why the changes in tone. I think it might have to do with the relationship the drumheads have to the positioning of the mic. It felt to me E and F were the ones were the bottom end was the tightest, and it might be because the mic was equidistant from the resonant and batter heads. The other positions have more of one or the other head and the low end is looser. Also, because it's a huge kick drum you don't loose too much low end, but I wonder if the same experience was done in a smaller tom you could even have positions almost akin to getting top and bottom mics out of phase.
Those were my two cents. But great video either way!
Also, if you're interested! A "cousin" of the kick technique you're doing here is the way Albini mics his kicks. It consists on putting a dynamic fig8 mic (the beyer m380) inside the kick complemented with a small lavalier mick dangling above the beater, pointing to the head. The idea is that the fig8 captures both the resonant and batter heads while nulling the basketball-like reflections of the shell, and then the lav mic is used just to ad attack. That way you get a very balanced kick sound that usually needs next to no eq. You just need to then gate or duck the lav mic when the snare hits since it'll sound pretty crappy. That being said I don't know if the technique is safe with a ribbon or if it works with a condenser and the only small fig8 dynamic I know of is the m380 so there's that :S
Wow cool thanks for such good info. I’ll have to try some of this stuff out.
@@creativesoundlab Well don't mention it! Your channel has given me a lot of great info
Start - 2:25
I like 3 and 5
I've actually used the dick-mic in lieu of an overhead, with a kick mic. So, one inside the kick, one in the pole position. 5 sounds pretty good, it's the only one that didn't seem to fuck up the ride. I would use it with both kick and snare-bottom mics through a mixer into a tape deck for a more articulate mono track on a 4 track or 8 track analog recording. K sounds nice too, but only as a standalone.
5. It picked up the snares better and didn’t have so much of a St. Anger boing.
5
1 then 5
3B
I get awesome results with a cheap EUR 15 behringer mic. Liked 5 the most, but don't you risk the mic being hit by an overly enthusiastic drummer?
bro i hope you're getting enough sleep