Dyno Testing the 12.0:1 441" LS3! (Pump Gas Monster)
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2023
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Something to keep in mind on e85 vs 93. If the engine isnt timing limited like he said, the extra fuel being sprayed in to the heads takes up space which hurts airflow. A bigger port would gain power over the 260cc port with extra fuel
Love seeing the different hits with controlled parameters being changed to see the impact. Great video.
If the engine can make it to peak timing with out spark knocking on pump gas usually the only gains you’ll see with higher octane is if there’s more oxygen in the fuel itself otherwise use pump gas because your wasting anything else. That goes for any engine.
I made 16rwhp/24ftlbs more on e85
@Mark DeWall Thats nothing if u think about it. 91 verse 105-108 octane? For 12 whp? 😅 it not only cools the air but u can sneak more timing in. You proved his statement correct. What cars dont gain 12 whp with a tune? They allll do.... but a 15+ octane rating difference should be closer to 25 whp increase.
@Nasty 31 car was already at its limit on 91.
Switching from 91 to e85 it gained that much more
probably due to more oxygen already in the fuel e85 runs cooler
@@bmwe30guy thats not alot. Especially when you take into count the fact that its more expensive usually and harder to come by. 16 hp isnt going to make a difference unless you are at 100hp to begin with.
That is a gorgeous engine and it runs really well. Sounds really good. I've been waiting on the dyno on this one. I was looking on Gm Performance and you can get a brand new Ls3/L92 head for $868. For about $150 more each, I can get a set of the 11 degree 255cc Smeding heads with a lot better valves. That's really good. I just gotta save some more and wait for them to be in stock lol and I can get me a set.
Intake is the limiting factor i believe..
Nice little streeter.
I need the all aluminum version of this at 14:1 in my life!!
In the last video i called 675 horsepower yea baby
With that many cubes and comp.. and didn't touch 700.. intake or camshaft must be the issue.
Intake is crap.
I was getting worried about my build. 427 ls making a carbon copy of shafrofs 427 and they claim 725 on 93 im getting there same intake and 1050 dominator
I'm just about done building my 427 ls3 stroker with 12.2:1 comp, custom grind cam, aftermarket heads. Waiting on the intake manifold to arrive and once broken in, we'll see if it can run pump gas or e85 is a must. Excited to see the outcome
How did your engine build turn out?
Good GAWD!!!! 20w-50!!!!! Churning butter over there.
All engines aren't the same, but there's no reason a 20 weight oil can't be used. I see 702 @ 7.2k from the 416s I build, but there's a lot of attention to the "details". Don't get me wrong, this is a strong running engine!
Ummm…. Oil viscosity is chosen by oil passages and bearing clearance. Not CZcams mechanics.
if he’s churning butter there’s a serious windage problem lol.
Pipe with a bell would be a great idea!
Finally some one else has the balls to run 12:1 on pump gas! I've been doing this for 8 or 9 years and been killing it out there.
E85 won't give the cool down effect NA that it does on boosted apps. So personally I don't find the nearly 2 parts to 1 of E85 to 93 beneficial to the wallet.
A good smooth light piston, low tension rings, etc.always sing well into the 7 to 7.5k range.....what's the hold up here????
e85 on NA you can advance timing 2 to 4 degrees for additional power.
I was thinking about 706hp. Are the numbers you get corrected for standard conditions or is it actual? Thanks for the vid.
Would be interested to run the engine with the new performance design XS LS3 Intake on the 441 ci
I am at a disadvantage not knowing the cam specs… but just for fun I’d say about 635-650 hp at the flex plate
If you were targeting 12.4:1 on e85, why was the afr_l and afr_r gauges generally a half point richer during pulls?
Hi.
Just to ask on your exhaust Temps, there were 2 cylinders going down?
Was this your sensors or was it loosing 2 cylinders?
I'm glad I've stumbled across your channel. Very informative. You are calling this an LS3 441 with a 4.125 bore and stroke. Does this mean that you took a factory LS3 block and increased the bore from 4.065 to 4.125 and the stroke from 3.622 to 4.125? I'm surprised you could get that much stroke out of it. Is there a benefit to have the bore and stroke number match?
Can be done but it’s not a good idea going bigger than 416 ci with a maximum of 4 inch stroke crankshaft and 4.070 pistons. the pistons are coming out of the cylinders at bottom dead centre with the 4.125 inch stroke which wears out the pistons prematurely, also boring out stock sleeves to 4.125 is getting thin causing heating issues Unless you replace the sleeves with longer ones you’re better off getting a aftermarket block to start with. Then displacement can easily go up to 454 ci or more safely .
Aftermarket block
It can be done on a stock Aluminum 6.2L LS block… the biggest expense is you must install longer cylinder sleeves otherwise the engine won’t last very long due to pistons coming out of the sleeves at BDC which causes piston rocking premature piston wear.
This is interesting I have a similar build of 443 ls 12.4:1 compression hydraulic cam with full exhaust that I had tuned on a mustang chassis dyno it made 680hp and 620tq to the tire at 6800 rpm with 93 and 28 degrees of timing at the time I was a little disappointed my goal was 740 but I now know that was not possible and seeing this I am now impressed however I have had problems out of lifters in the motor because of the dart ls next block lifter guides I will be reworking it to have tie-bar lifters but the same but new cam the rest of the valve train saw no failures along with the rotating assembly
What heads do you have
@@bjones416 lpc heads ported by ray myres
i want that engine on my fbody lol probably will get 600 rwhp with 6 speed with 3.73 deffrenial and it runs on 93 octen
I've seen that intake kill a ton of power, like 40 horse, on a chassis dyno. You should do same tests with a better intake, like the Holley ultra low ram.
Your correct but nothing beats a fast for a NA set up
Nothing beats a fast unless your wanting to turn it to 8k. This engine needs a fast or more camshaft. It may loose 10 or so hp on the peak but would gain a lot under 6k
That new PTR XS LS3 112mm intake might be the call. Ultra Low Ram has similar incompatibilities with this engine as the BTR. Iron Mask Airflow ports trinity intakes and they come out looking nicer than an ultra low ram possibly could.
What size wheel are on those lifters? What size pushrods are in there?????
Awesome. I always wonder if doing all these high RPM pulls do you ever worry about the engine blowing apart?
It's not high rpm. Any LS can handle 7000rpm for years and years, when built it'll last until the engine wears out.
Exactly the built engine will have upgraded rods, pistons and crank. Nascar does 9000 plus rpm for 500 miles straight with high quality bottom end. A pull to a little over 7000 is nothing.
These LS engines appear to blow away the old school SBC and BBC engines
Why 50w oil when the clearance on the mains is 20 thousandths?
Why isnt oil pressure on the monitor
Weird my 10:1 408 with stock heads and intake makes 510whp so about 600 flywheel. Wonder why this made so little in comparison
Can you guys bore the cylinders to 4.130" for my 442 build?
Im very curious as to what class record you are trying to break l used to run at East Coast Timing Asssoc. 1 mile events.Did an official 192 mph in a 750 hp 421 Windsor on racing fuel
How big is the throttle body
Before I watch the rest of the video I’m guessing it’s going to make at least 750 hp
201👍's up thank you for sharing
Why 20w50 oil with .002" clearances
What cam spec on this motor?
Ive noticed that high compression motors dont like that much timing why is that
This is the first dyno video of yours that I have watched. Very impressive. Richard Holdner who?
You never said what camshaft was in it!!!!!!
I was thinking 700 hp, but I guess it needs another point of compression to get there (with the E85). Nice info, thanks.
No, there's something going on with this and that 427 build. They really need to figure out valve timing or they need to revise the port in their heads. This and that 427 should EASY eclipse 700hp.
if it was an lt1 with DI then it would
@@WildEngineering lol nah lt1 heads aren't as good as ls3
@@75zl1 what? Are you sure about that.
@@WildEngineering 100 percent sure about it buddy
740
745hp
Really odd didn't pick up much on E85 - Thought the intake air temp decrease would add a decent amount of power...
On a carburetor yes, port fuel injection no
Not on a ls in NA form under boost whole nother deal.
Coyote see better results from e85
Port injection intake manifolds are dry - the injector is located at the bottom of the runner - the intake air meets the fuel in the cylinder head just before the intake valve. That's one reason why many port injection intakes are some sort of plastic. Carburetor intakes are 'wet' they flow a fuel/air mixture that comes from the carb at the top of the intake, which leads to a cooling affect throughout the entire intake. There's a significant cooling affect with gasoline as well, not just ethanol. Aluminum is the generally accepted ideal material for carbureted intakes because of its heat transfer properties.
I think it going to make 720hp
does your dyno surge like that or is in the fuel map i see in every curve 3 surges does great after 5800 to 7000
Yeah, I was wondering if the dyno was surging or was it the engine?
Same, didn't seem rite
isnt e85 stoch 10:1?????
1:01 441 cubic inches 7000 RPMs 12 to 1 compression .... I'm going to say You're going to be moving about 1.28 CFM to make a horsepower, I don't know your cam numbers. But I'm going to say 697 horsepower.
P. S. Okay, I had to edit this because I just got to the end of the video. As instructed. I made my prediction before I watched the film.
My estimate of 697 was based off of headers, not running through mufflers, now I believe I'm far closer with my guess, if you pop those mufflers off, I'll bet you free up at least 25 horsepower
I thought the stoichiometric ratio for ethical was around 9-1 and 14-1 for gas, so was it lean at 12-1 for e -85?
Its showing gasoline air fuel which is lambda 1 at 14.7:1 for gas and 9.85:1 e85. Its easier to use lambda numbers.
@@dennisrobinson8008 That is what my understanding was too and lambda was = to the stoichiometric ratio but I now have a ton of people telling me 12-1, makes my brain hurt. My car is set up at 9-1 right now for E85, well was it dropped a valve so that is a different problem.
Don't listen to those folks. The top performance shops will admit 14.7:1 gas af == lambda 1.00 == e85 9.85:1. That's why folks switch to lambda scale to make it easier. Just google "e85 lambda conversion table" and you will get results with a table that shows you the conversion.@@crashbandit9949
870HP WITH 639 TORC
should be able to hit 700 on pump, new intake and heads maybe?
I’d throw that tooley intake in the trash.
@@Cultofpersonality09129 agree..thats killing that combo . WHy build that big of an engine then use the wrong intake just cause of a hood. Shoot, theres an excuse to make something custom for it.
LIke the older vette guys who build up an engine then put stock exh or intake manifolds on. Whats the point?
Sure makes me wonder how those RPM guys get 650 WHEEL HP out of a Heads Cam stock displacement 427 LS7 🤔
LS7 rotating assembly with titanium rods and LS7 heads will be worth another 20hp or more. LS7 heads are superior in all flow categories. Plus that intake is losing power to an MSD 102. There is gains to be made on this combo still.
At what point to you stop adding overall timing and just add it up higher after peak TQ ?
You look at the change in power compared to rpm. So if I add 2 degrees and the power stays the same to 4000 rpm, then gains from there to max rpm, you know where to keep adding. In this example, you would add more timing after 4000.
I will guess 650 hp 550 tq
Put a better head on it an see how much it gains on e85
I feel like 26 degrees is pretty low for an n/a setup
Only if the heads have inefficient combustion chamber. Good chambers use less timing
I’d say 710 hp or thereabouts
700 p
needs way better camshaft
i guessed 650+hp
if your going to keep it N/A i wouldn't run that intake you would be losing HP try a fast manifold it will pick up hp and torque those low intake only really work up around over 6500+ and the short runner only really work with boost im surprised that you picked that manifold, I'd be disappointed with those numbers by the Tim its put on a gearbox and alternator those numbers mean nothing
It better make 650.
Strokers are all about torque, look at those #s esp how low they come in, theres the beef!
Peak hp dyno sheets..who cares.
Anybody catch the no oil pressure light on the dyno display
In no way am I badmouthing any of the workmanship, but isnt that number low for that build? I fully expected to see a mid 700 pull. At the wheel, its going to be barely breaking 600.
It has to be a cam problem or something with the intake?
I think it’s the intake, but it’s in a C6 vette so there’s no hood clearance. Probably losing 40 hp on the intake.
Why are you at a 12.x:1 AFR running on E85? Shouldn’t you be at like 7.9:1 ish AFR? E85 requires about 33% more fuel flow than gasoline. Seems to me that you are running the motor extremely lean on E85.
You need glasses.
Most people when they’re switching between fuels leave the AFR numbers scaled to gasoline so technically it is higher than 12.4 to 1, but going off of the gasoline scale. That’s what the sensor reads.
Did you try 12 to 1 AF with 27deg or more timing?
Did you watch the video??
Dyno. Stop. Release. Stop. Release. Stop release....?????
i want this motor build just like it how would i order this exact build for my boat i would need 2 of them for a 42' sport fishing boat
Not really that impressive. I made 651 horse on a Gen 1 406 sbc and 23 degree brodix track 1x heads, with small cam, 11:1 compression, on Steve Schmidts dyno in Indy, 20 years ago.
Why are your numbers so low?
I have never seen any of their motors put up great numbers.
@@taylorsrus9543 Yeah, I'd be upset. SMH
@@funfun8095 Also shows the difference between a builder and assembler. A builder would have known what this combo would do, especially on the fuel switch.
Maybe after a few years he can get those numbers up. Building experience is hard, especially with all our judging eyes staring him down. But yeah, my initial guess with that displacement was closer to 700. Which could have easily been optimized on the intake and exhaust side to get the dyno queen number
Look at the torque and how low it comes in theres your big difference
Imo that should’ve made far over 700. A pro Charger on a stock Engine with a cam would’ve made wayyy more power for half the money.
Could also argue that a junkyard 5.3 with a Chinese eBay turbo could make the same power for even less but I think 97% of car guys would probably prefer this engine in their car ..
Not trying to be an ass. But honestly Seems weak to me?
Especially with that much squeeze.
I was expecting in the 800 range. Did anyone flow the heads?
Thats not realistic to expect of this engine. Not a fan of the intake manifold.
Someone else that is gonna learn they should have probably bought a blower. This is going to get murdered in the C6 world by stock motors with a SC.
This engine in a C6 will run mid 10s at 130+ on street tires. LS7 top end swap would put it in the low 9s at 140+. A mild 427 LS with a 2650 or D1-X runs low 8s at 155+. Not everyone wants a parachute on their street car bro
@@Horsepower_Brad You are missing the point it seems. You can take a stock motor, with an A&A kit and crush these numbers for a third the cost. Mild 427 with a 2650 would double this output. What is the point of big cubic inch and high compression just to be slow. Is this your motor?
@@taylorsrus9543 The A&A kit for stock LS3 makes 550whp. This 441 will crush that. Seems like you’re confusing a stock LS3 with the LSX376-B15. Anyone arguing in favor of a boosted combo with hypereutectic pistons is confused.
@@Horsepower_Brad doubtful this is going to put down 550. To each their own, someone has to be in the back.
@@taylorsrus9543after sitting in 90 degree bad traffic for an hour the A&A stock LS3 is going to be 250 degrees. The 12:1 NA 441 car is going to be 200 degrees full power. Not everyone is building a race car.
A 2" primary would be nice to see. 2" stepped to 2⅛" would be even nicer!
Why does do your dyno sessions seem to not be a consistent climb? It seems to step up and up and up?
730