Differences between Judo and BJJ Groundwork
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2012
- Mike Lee (www.h2oma.com/) and Stephan Kesting (www.grapplearts.com) talk about the differences between BJJ groundwork and Judo newaza at a seminar in downtown Vancouver (at www.infightingmma.com)
- Sport
Judo compliments BJJ and BJJ compliments Judo. If you learn both and have a solid game with each, then you will be well rounded. Just remember, the Gracies have solid judo backgrounds but will never say it openly, like Rickson.
Judo for throws, BJJ for Ground, and Muay Thai for Strikes! You a Killing Machine!
And wrestling for takedowns.
just add Muay Thai, Wrestling, and boxing, and you have a prefect fighter. Helps if you start training at 5 years old, cause thats a lot of stuff to learn lol.
Boba Defett id say taekwondo would be the better option
Francisco tkd is good for fancy kicking, not general striking
Love the way practitioners of both these sports generally have so much respect for each other.
I guess really it's due to the shared Ju-Jitsu heritage making us both essentially arts of grappling. Nice to see stuff crossing over like this.
i do judo (for 47 years) and always enjoyed butterfly guard.
What’s the difference between the butterfly guard vs the rubber guard in BJJ? Thank you
@@WarrenKirkpatrick I am sorry I only go rolling at BJJ a few times each year, I am not familiar with BJJ terminology of rubber guard, please research it.
@@WarrenKirkpatrick huge difference, rubber guard was created by Eddie bravo and has completely different positioning, and butterfly guard usually utilizes the gi, rubber guard can be used for both gi and no-gi, probably even better in no-gi
My son in just four and has started Judo in Japan. I hope he continues with it.
Plot twist you live in Africa and sold your son
@@jasonhood2714 xd
in Japan it should be obligatory. is he still training?
He will get some very thorough training!
@@jasonhood2714 .
This is brilliant! Shows how Judo and BJJ can come together and share their expertise. Judo Nage-Waza with BJJ Ne-Waza. Coming from Judo, it's awesome to see how BJJ fighters can be so chill on the ground; while planning for their next attack. Brilliant video, excellent instructors.
Also forgot to add about Judo Ne Waza. I love seeing the sankaku applied; ecspecially attack turtle.
Trenton: Sankaku Jime was developed by Kosen Judo players. Sweeps were developed by Kodokan Judo players. Both are Judo contributions to the repertoire of Judo and other Martial Arts. BJJ really doesn't exist. ALL of BJJ is Kosen Judo. Or Judo on the Ground or Newaza. Judo is more academic and disciplined than BJJ. In BJJ many dirty tricks are allowed, techniques the founder removed from the sport (but not from Goshin Jiu Jitsu ) because of the danger of injury. The techniques however are still practiced in Tai Ho Jitsu or Goshin Jitsu and taught within the repertoire of Self Defense Judo. Some techniques are even secret. In BJJ there isn't the discipline, or protocol, upon starting and ending a class. The problem I have with BJJ is that it's really Judo brought to Brazil by Kimura taken over by the Gracies and now called BJJ. BJJ then became more street fighting oriented Judo. Players (and I hate to say this) are less educated, rougher on the edges than Judo players. In Japan Kosen Judo is taught in learning institutions like High Schools and Universities. Now, don't get me wrong, I have met many scum bag Judo players that I'd like to see dead. But generally, a 7th dan in Judo is much more academic, theory oriented than the equivalent in BJJ. In addition, some of these assholes who have BJJ schools don't answer their phones, want $140/month membership fees and don't keep a disciplined schedule. Judo, in this sense is more responsible. As for Throwing vs. Ground Work don't forget fights begin standing (Kosen Judo matches begin in the standing position and Kosen players become experts in the minor throws and takedowns). Since fights begin from a standing position a BJJ doesn't stand a chance against an expert Kodokan player in a street fight. One clean throw and it's lights out for BJJ player! Judo throws are also designed so that Tori can easily transition into Newaza from the throw. Having said all of this, I have to admit that BJJ may one day overcome Judo. Some of the BJJ players have more stamina and they practice with and without a Gi, they also have a huge, infinite set of Groundwork techniques to the point where competing becomes like a chess match. We'll see what happens. Judo has overcome similar crisises. One such crisis was when the sport had to change it's training regime because Wrestlers were more flexible and stronger than them.
yeah, and they overcame that with...changing the rules so you can't grab the leg. Can't wait for a new rule banning butterfly guards (or really, any type of guard game, they already immediately stand you up if you try to play closed guard).
I always facepalm when judo people come whining that BJJ is nothing but stuff taken from Judo. Yes it is, and it's your fault they had to go and re-discover (and expand) it, or more precisely, your governing body's fault, because your super limited competition ruleset basically condemned those techniques into oblivion, so go whine on your IJF, not at BJJ. And i don't even practice BJJ, so don't tell me i'm biased, you are.
Trenton Warner thanks for the compliment Bud keeping my cool at bjj class not so easy lol
elan really amen
I'm glad someone else agrees with this. That was my thought as well, about putting the guy on the ground. Maybe you will or won't knock someone out depending on his opening, but you're always clear and get a second to collect yourself after dropping someone. From a street fight where he has friends, you get an extra half second to see someone else coming in. From an Army perspective, dropping someone and getting away from them allows you to raise your weapon.
Great video. I train in Kickboxing and traditional Judo. Judo is a tough martial art to learn, but I love it. Randori knocks the hell out of me. I'm 40 and train 3-4 times a week.
Would Mauy Thai be easier to learn than judo ?
@@theonlyonestanding8079IMO, I think striking styles are easier to learn than grappling styles
I’m thinking about so this ditch kickboxing and judo
@@anthonyburns2175 Im still training since I last posted my original comment. Didn't realise it was 4 years ago. Time does fly. I'm 45 next month, soon il be a 4th Dan blackbelt. I'm loving life.
@@theonlyonestanding8079 Judo is tough on the body. Not everyone can handle it, especially as you age. I believe judo is for elite athletes who are tough in the long run. Muy Thai will also be pretty tough but try it.
One throw in a self-defense situation on pavement and he is done.
Not for me. I'm super tough. Throwing me is like throwing a piece of iron down on the pavement. I'm made of steel and iron. When I get slammed on the ground, the ground gets hurt really badly.
Christopher Walker Ooo... your hard.
@@jackward2581 that's what she said. 🤣
@@christopherwalker6056 ohh I see what you did here 😑
@Josh E Exactly!
First time i've ever seen a BJJ instructor on a youtube video actually know what they are talking about when it comes to Judo. So many BJJ instructors post Judo intsructionals with terrible technique etc. Great Vid. Stephen Kesting is one of the best for CZcams instructionals
I am in japan but not studying judo or jujitsu...shame on me.
I'm from Monterey and never played golf. When I was a kid, some of the best courses in the world sent reps to local schools and had programs so we could play golf on some of the most in demand courses in the world. But I thought I was way to cool to play golf. Too busy playing football. Now I'm, grown up and it would cost 600 dollars to play those same course and have a year wait list.
darn, I'd love to learn...
Nowadays, you may be able to find better Judo dojo at France rather than Japan. I am Japanese and I watched TV program that French judo master came to Japan to teach Japanese black-belt judo guys.
+Alex You don't have to go to Japan though. I pratice Kudo, i'm in Italy. I'm not sure how spread it is in the USA, but it's fairly present also in Spain, England, France, and even more Russia and other estern european countries. If you still don't make the list, i advise you to try Kyokushin karate or any of its offshoots (particularly Enshin karate if you're in the USA, or its predecessor Ashihara karate, as their competition rules also allows some throws), after all that's where Kudo began.
yeah. Shame on you.
You are breaking the stereo type us Americans have that you guys and all Asians are all black belts at some martial art.
BJJ came from judo. I am Brazilian and i Know that. Mitsuyo Maeda was a judoka and never practiced another style of JJ apart from Kano Jujutsu. So the difference is only the rules.
Same art, different sport, I'd say.
Butterfly guard is very common in judo, just depends on the geographically location that you train in I guess.
geographic*
@KonicavaBR I was lucky enough to practice the art much more than the sport, and the difference when we went to tournaments was astounding. Now, I started at 11, and I obviously sucked for a few years, but by the time I was 15 I was beating 19 year olds(I was overweight and had to fight up in age class). Our focus on the art, rather than the sport, did well for us. It made us extremely well rounded, unlike a few schools that taught its students to "perfect" 3 or 4 throws and 1 transition to a holddown, one armbar, or one choke. Not to say those other schools were "bad" at all, many Florida schools send Olympians, but at the lower level the art does well. Not to mention the art's advantage in self-defense.
Yes!! Because there are judo school that focus only in throws so I’m glad my teacher teach me judo newaza so I don’t need Bjj because Bjj was born from judo ground game o nage WAZA
@@abbisgm3453 yes you need the bjj because the mothodolgy in bjj to aply the techniques on the ground are superior to the judo even the japones recognize this, if you wanna be good in ne-waza you need to training jiu jitsu, the brazilian judoca Flávio Canto its a exemplo of that he is black belt in bjj as well and beat everybody in ne-waza on olympics games using bjj.
@@compass3309 i like having conversations with people like you that knows what I’m talking about!! Yeah I’ll give you that point there.. because Japanese are to traditional and Bjj is a modern version of grappling. what I’m not ok is people think that it doesn’t come from Japan’s grappling and jiu jitsu is Japanese art of grappling without weapon and now with have Brazilian methodology which is fair and can be unique and that’s why is call BJJ. but, also I don’t need Bjj for few reasons!! 1st my school have a Bjj instructor and my training partners when we do Ne Waza I’m pretty much as good as them not bragging about because my sensei is a great judoka and way to traditional. Means he teaches us self defense and a lot judo grappling also teach us about Sport judo too and how to apply the techniques 2nd my sensei is a MMA fighter which I take those classes too so he teaches NO GI to combine striking and grappling hey but I love my Bjj people. I just like things to be told the right way that’s all!!
I thought this was an excellent video , thank you. I've practiced bjj ,i've recently signed my son up for Judo ,and im really excited for him.
Wow, this was actually very helpful, thanks SK, your videos have helped me polish some of my techniques.
The funny thing is Kano, when asked about the Olympics, stated his fear that it would with time replace Judo with "competition Judo" and become only a sport. Well he was right. Judo fell in the hands of the IJF (itself having to answer to the olympic comittee) and so it happened that it lost most of its ne-waza, as well as a good number of techniques being banned when IJF decided grabbing the leg didn't make for exciting judo (probably same reasoning as why they made newaza so restricted).
I think we all know BJJ comes from Judo (which itself comes from variosu forms of JJJ), but yeah, BJJ exists because your governing bodies chose to ban and/or neglect a good deal of techniques and strategies, and the brazilians capitalized on it.
Thankfully i might say, as now they're once again out there being practiced, even if they had to put a different label on it. Ofc the Gracies did their rebranding and monetizing, whatever, it's been done in karate and TKD too, the important thing is they survived and indeed advanced. So as an outsider to both I have to say, if you Judo people are jealous of BJJ's recent sucess (as many reveal to be in their comments), i think you only have "yourselves" (as in, your governing bodies) to blame.
Vision but Kano was the one pushing for it to be in the Olympics....Kano is one of the founding members of the Olympic comitee up until his death...lol
@sienna three Feel free to fight to the death.
I love both, grappling is life.
this is what i been doing for years and been telling people to do and alot of judokas(on adverage) i know cant adapt to the brazilians ne-waza or mentality and the brazilians couldnt throw if their lives depended on it(on average) nagae waza best part i like about the video is the talk about after the throw u got a great chance to hold down a guy for your submission which almost no one talks about great video!
i train judo and bjj its awesome how both fits together!
This is amazing man Both sports are great one ancestor of the other Glad you upload these videos its great a harmony in between sports :)
I have always been a judo fan and this video was really good and instructive. There are some Japanese judo instructors who always teach transition even when you get the ippon so their students are always going straight to newaza. However modern Judo wants ippons and so newaza is often at the refs discretion.
Cool! Would love to see some demonstrations of the differences, do you have more on this?
Thanks bud. I've been studying Judo for 6 years now.
You are correct in saying that you can punch/headbutt. One thing that should be noted though, is that success in holding a position comes from the proper application of weight. It is very very difficult to hold a position and strike effectively at the same time. Because, effective striking from a dominate position inherently forces you to leave space to generate the leverage needed to be effective. For a skilled practitioner it is actually easier to escape a position when a person is striking
Thank for the great explanation, both of you.
both are great, together they are amazing. I do BJJ and the take downs are what's lacking, so I am impressed when I see a BJJ practitioner use a Judo move when standing up.
You guys have Judo Olympians as students?! Jesus.
Yeah- I dont know about that... The last -90kg player for the US was in 2008 and his name was Brian Olsen. Not whoever he said.
They're Canadian.
Oooohhhhh Alex Emond. Makes sense now. Sorry...
my master is killian le bloutch in france :) olympic judoka
I see no comments?
I really enjoy Stephen bring in other martial artist and allowing them to speak freely about there discipline.
Judo still retains the armed military combat mentality whereas Brazilian Jiujitsu retains the unarmed, man to man, dueling mentality. In battle taking the opposition off their feet then shanking them to death before facing the next adversary is life or death combat. Unarmed dueling, holding the opponent down til they gas out, establish position before submission, wins unarmed two man duels. Judo is more military. BJJ is based upon civilian dueling. Here's supporting video exhibit: czcams.com/video/lVOdRGl54qI/video.html
It's good seeing this cooperative learning environment. Why I say this is that a Judoka name Maeda taught the Gracies nearly 100 years ago. Judo had changed and the Gracies kept the other half of Judo. Now it's time for Judo to get its groundwork involved in their sport instead of just throws.Now Judo can be whole again white the addition to Atemi blows.
Brazilian Jiujitsu came from Judo, the techniques are the same. What changes is that since people train with a competitive emphasis and adapt to training with those set of rules they specialize on what the rules favor. In Judo, rules favor stand-up while in Bjj they favor groundwork. Brazilian Jiujitsu is in fact Kosen Judo or Pre-World War II Judo. Before World War II Judo rules were more liberal and you could go straight to the ground without having to throw your opponent.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo both came from Japanese Ju-Jutsu, "ju-jutsu" being an umbrella term for every martial arts style affiliated to Japanese martial history and Budo philosophy.
Judo was put together by Jigoro Kano as a sport only, being a melange from different styles (ryu) dating back as far as the mid Tokugawa shogunate.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu came from japanese immigrants in Brazil that were versed in some of these ryu, as well as some also being affiliated to Kodokan. Mitsuyo Maeda, who taught Carlos Gracie his Ju-Jutsu was well versed nidan in two traditional Ju-Jutsu styles before he even set foot in Kodokan. It developed in its own as a martial arts first, only becoming a sport in the late 20th century...giving birth to vale-tudo and eventually MMA.
That is why none of the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu schools in eraly 20th century were opened under the guise of Judo, going back to the first founders in Brazil. It has always been Jiu-Jitsu, as the originators in Brazil were introduced to.
To say that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu comes from Judo is not only wrong, but a deliberate lie.
@@dan5626 But the Gracies learnt Judo from one of Kano Jigaros (founder of Judo) students. So BJJ literally comes from Judo and every BJJ practitioner can trace their lineage back to Kano. However I would disagree that BJJ is literally Kosen Judo. It is for the most part Kosen Judo but has melanged a bit with other wrestling styles (particularly in the USA) and I would say it has developed new moves and subtleties of its own at this point. Some would say developed for the better and others might think for the worse (as it becomes more and more sportified and further from the Gracies original street fighting system).
@@Sam-rb1id If you read the text above and still came up with this reply, there is nothing more I can say that will help you.
Very nice. Thanks for the explanation.
I like this guy's humility. Very budo.
Judo is infinitely more realistic than BJJ in a street fight. BJJ is good for Gracie marketing (trademark) and for places were you fight in mats and in controlled environments (sports).
That would be true if there was a such thing as no gi judo. Bjjs issue is that it starts on the ground, judos issue is the gi, and wrestlings issue is the lack of submissions. The only grappling art that is catch wrestling and it's dead.
depends on where you live, where i live people wear thick clothes year round so judo really is optimal
equal well on that case bjj would be too
@@hellosenorjarnton9193 no, the whole point is that i dont really want to go to the ground
equal in judo arent you taking the person to the ground?
The technique I'd go for there is the one pressure point everyone knew about on the schoolyard back when I was in grade school; base of the jaw under the ear. Doesn't need any more force than you can generate with hand strength. The first time I rolled with my jujitsu teacher, I thought "this is just like the old days!" and got my hand up in there to show I could attack from that position. He told me it was a good technique for the street but it'd get me disqualified in competition.
I love how they talked about the differences without trying to declare one "better."
I like the objectivity of many of the comments posted here. The way I see it, judo and jiujitsu are just 2 branches of the same tree. One focuses more on ground work, and the other on stand up fighthing. But they're not too far away from each other. The best advice is to cross-train, with and opened mind, and leave your pride aside.
I wish more people understood this!
this is a good explanation on how newaza judo and bjj differ.
@alwerty1 oh absolutely. it's a small percentage of schools these days that really teach good, quality Judo. and to me, it's making groundwork second nature after a throw. there are many beautiful techniques that can be passed on.
I think the only thing that separated judo from BJJ are the rules. F judo was given sub,ission grappling rules then i reckon people wold neglect their standup and start analysing positions and aweeps and it'll just turn into BJj. Likewise i think if BJj had judo rules people will start paying more attention to standup because t's a new aspect that you could get an advantage in. Thus judo and BjJ are the same thing. Even the princples lf BjJ like table leg theory and loadong, we use those in judo too but im standup. Thus BjJ real,y is just judo tachiwaza applied to groundwork. Training in both will give the ultimate gain in yielding combat. As Kano-shihan said, you should focus more on your standup, but if you are able to then you must become equally adept at both
Nice video, Good explanation ! But in europe especially in france Transitions to newaza is key its part of the first thing we learn when we do newaza thanks to our gran master Mikinosuke Kawaishi (specialist of Newaza)
So the transition and the ground aspect knowledge of judo depends a lot of where you are on the globe ^^
Travis Stevens always says that judo newaza is quite bad in usa and it might be true because I hear in a lot of vidéo (comin from the us) that judo has a very bad ground game in general. 🤷♂️
But nice video ! I always enjoy when a bjj bb talk about judo because he sees our martial art from a different angle 🙂
in germany judo newaza is very good, too.
Anytime of leg work for my jujitsu school is open, anything you can do and know is allowed except attacking reasonable areas (groin, eyes etc.)
That's basically what's different. Other than that, if you learn both martial arts without the competitive approach, the ground techniques are the same. The first generation of gracies just simplified Judo to what would work for everyone and anyone and took out the techniques that required too much strength (many of the throws) and specialized on ground work which even weak people could use to tackle bigger opponents. Helio Gracie himself I think had a 6th Dan in Judo.
I've practiced Judo for over 15 years and had the priviledge to trained and compete every evenings of with National, Olympic Combattants male and femelle.
Today, I'm practising BJJ and I found many of strangulations, limbs locks etc difficult to adapt to some of BJJ Arts movements.
Perhaps after so many years practicing Judo and learning "tricks" (pushing elbow don't the lower ribs( no need to be mean, take it easy) make your opponents "uneasy and unfocus" while you "working" on him/her, for ex.)
from some of best judokas and my "secret" :-) own and can't adapt mind and body into the BJJ.
I respect the Art, the Masters, teachers, Pupils and the sens camaradery on/ouside the Dojo.
But ... can't do it .
Am I the only one?
In a Judo match, transitions are needed from a knock-down, or not fully successful throw, and will help you continue the match on the ground. Refs are quick to call for a reset if they do not see clear progress in groundwork on the mat.
I think it depends on the bjj place you go to. In my bjj place we are super explosive and aggressive when rolling and bridging like there’s a timer
Which grappling would be good to add to my k1ckboxing stand up judo or freestyle wrestling only options in my area any advice on this guys
It really depends what school you go to. I train at the Gracie gym in Berckley ca and they have a judo class. There are some pure grappling schools ive visited were there a hybrid of bjj/judo/and wrestling. I saw a jugo guy do a brutal single leg take down and finish with an armbar. I saw a wrestler in this class do a classic leg sweep off his Russian tie. So it depends on the school.
Thanks for the backup mate,
Civil and true. Refreshing. Though honestly I think if a Judoka spent the same amount of time on his/her groundwork they could easily be as effective as a BJJ practitioner, and vice versa. Its all in what you focus on. Problem is that the lines of what is jujitsu and where it comes from have been blurred badly, especially in pop culture.
Your wrong a good judo fighter goes in the ground after throwing!
+Bjarne Ungerer you're*
"in the ground" lol the famous burrowing judo techniques
Vision lol
of Course,a Judo Champion is proficient standing Nage Waza/Throws as well as Ne Waza/Ground fighting
beka bel Nage Waza are throws, Tachi Waza means standing.
Any videos in Mike Lee sparring stand up and ground work?
Judo and BJJ are both awesome martial arts. I don't have much money these days to burn, but at some point, it'd be great to study either BJJ or Judo.
A great deal of BJJ originates in the full form of old Kodokan Judo, where probably half of Judo consisted of groundwork (including kneelocks, wristlocks, etc.). When Judo shifted more toward 'Sport' or Competitions, the focus on groundwork lessened.
@@ktkt1825 so he should give up takedown defense?
The reason why its called "Brazilian Jiujitsu" instead of "Brazilian Judo" is because at the very beginning of the 20th century when Count Koma migrated to Brazil and taught the Gracies Judo it was still widely known as "Kano Jiujitsu", since Kano founded Judo in the late 19th century as synthesis of different techniques from different styles of Japanese Jiujitsu.
f12m34 Kano specifically combined the teachings of the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu and the Kito Ryu jujutsu schools in order to create judo. Just some additional info
f12m34
Mayeda used Jiu-Jitsu techniques that were left out of judo due to injuries they caused. That’s why it became a more deadly art b
There are judo Ne-Waza Competitions and they are getting pretty popular so I think Judo is evolving in to to halfs which can be quite benerficial to those who like their groundwork game! :O)
im just now gettin back into martial arts, i did tae kwon do for 3 years then stopped for 2 and a half. should i go into jiu-jitsu? judo? or another martial arts? im curious and would appreciate the input. thnx
The "in Judo, they are not used to the butterfly guard" comment sounds pretty weird to me:
1) *Each time I see a high level judoka using a guard , it's the "butterfly" guard* . It's even used to get under a "turtled" opponent and sweep him/her over. You can see A LOT of Japanese judoka doing that.
2) It's also *the number 1 guard in all judo books* I have, probably because it allows a lot of sweeps (pretty useful when you want to pin someone and not being stood up)
3) *Low belts learn the butterfly sweep in France* and *I have learnt it again in the Dojo where I am now in Belgium* after going back to Judo
Is it a difference between US/Canadian and Japanese/European Judo or am I just living in a parallel universe?
i thought that was weird too as butterflie guard is the most used guard after the spider guard in most judo gyms..
Its good to see them talking reasonable and not berating other people's arts like morons. A sign of maturity.
thats a great method of training you guys use but i've noticed that more dojos nowadays are more focused on the stand up rather than the ground work including the one I used to train at. It seems the focus is mainly competition rather than the art itself which is really unfortunate because judo has a lot more techniques to offer apart from the takedowns.
BJJ and Judo both have alot to offer, I started out in Judo and recieved my black belt in Judo in 2002 I bagan training BJJ on a regular basis in 2007. I catch alot of BJJ guys with Judo hold down then transition to subs, and on the other hand I catch alot of Judo guys with BJJ gi chokes. Bottom line is Judo is great to take the fight to the ground and BJJ is great when you are there.
I think they are both legit forms of self defense and real world fighting if trained properly. A lot of Judo schools only focus on the stand up take down aspect of the art which is not real training. While on the other hand many BJJ schools only focus on the ground within the sportive frame of mind. That being all about points and such. Real training of either must include having a partner put on boxing gloves and truly trying to punch you while your job is to get the clinch.
Exactly! I wish I read your comment before I wrote mine. Out of interest do you train in the USA? I get the impression that groundwork and therefore transition/control of opponent is so badly taught in USA that people think Judo doesn't have ground game. I train under a 70 year old Japanese Kodokan teacher in Australia and transition is a beginners basic. It is worrying a dan grade on this video talks about it like it is the not the normal thing to do.
I actually would like Judo competitions to be 50% standing and 50% ne waza. Like, for example, you pull off a good throw, you score a point, then it continues on the ground to submission. If you get the submission, you win, if the other guy gets you, you both have a point, so it goes into another round which would probably be a matter of one throw, unless you both go down in which case it'd be submission again.
The emphasis away from groundwork in Judo competitions was a choice to the make matches more dynamic and interesting to watch for spectators.
@@ktkt1825 I think it's time for someone to change that
i would also like to respectfully counter on the judoka training. now this may not happen at every school, im not sure.. but our training regiment on a normal days training goes as follows: 5 5 min rounds ground randori, some ground technique training, 5 5 min rounds standing randori (going into ground work for 5 secs, even if advanced position, stand back up), standing technique.. of course Q.A. comes next...
we focus equally on ground, altho we dont play it much due to the energy consumption
the philosophy of judo was very different to jujitsu which was a battle art while judo was meant to enrich a persons life with self defense secondary.The reason it works where jujitsu didnt is becasue it spars full resistance,it has very little interest in self defense today,some traditional senseis might address it infrequently.
I see great points in your statements. It's a tricky balance. But I would respectfully counter your argument. I have been instructed differently. Using the least amount of energy but achieving the greatest result is ideal. Most evident in a self defense situation, where once you fatigue, you are in very big trouble. As often seen in various combat sports where a superior person dominates until fatigue sets in and then they are eaten alive. In life though, there's clock or ref to save you.
Bjj rules I love it. But I also feel that judo us a great art as well both r great and I agree that if u take both that will help u a lot. I've trained in pankartion and I'm training in bjj
agreed. there arnt many out there that practice the kosen ryu judo alot people forget that judo already had the arguement on more groundwork or more throws between kano and oda. maeda the teacher of carlos gracie came from the kosen ryu school. p.s. I
Fantastic.
Can anyone tell me the main difference between judo and BJJ? Whats skills can be advantage in the two styles? I am doing kick and punch focused martial arts (TKD) right now and am thinking of starting something more ground-based in addition.
I'll preface this by saying that I do BJJ, not Judo. However, I'm quite the Judo fan, so hopefully I'm not too far off here. Someone more knowledgeable, please correct me if I'm wrong.
BJJ and Judo are historically intertwined, but you can find that information really easily on wikipedia. In terms of technique, they share a lot, but there are some differences.
Firstly, grip fighting (trying to get dominant grips) is very similar in both arts. The idea in both is to put yourself in a position where you can bring your opponent to the ground.
Secondly, takedowns. Due to the differences in competition rules, a BJJ practitioner is allowed a greater variety of takedowns. For example, a common BJJ takedown is the double-leg, which is closer to wrestling. It doesn't require any special grips before you make the move (in some ways it's similar to a crash tackle in a sport like rugby). The fact that it's a no-grip takedown precludes it from being used in tournament Judo. So while many techniques for takedowns/throws are practically the same between both arts, there are certain things BJJ does that would be illegal in a Judo match. To give you an example of a throw common to both BJJ and Judo, you can look at almost any hip throw - take the tsuri-goshi. Usually the setup is the same - get the right grips (wrist and waist/belt), get your feet, hips and head into the correct position, then complete the throw. However there are small differences that owe to some slightly different principles in each respective art. In Judo, throws like the tsuri-goshi are typically taught to be finished with you on your toes for explosive power. In BJJ, especially Gracie Humaita JJ, the same throw is done with the feet flat on the ground to provide a stronger base. This is in part because if you blow the move, you don't want your opponent to be able to easily dislodge your grips and for example, take your back. With a strong base it's much easier to get out of a standing bearhug-type hold. If you're on your toes, you're going to hit the mat with your opponent on your back, in a perfect position to pin you flat (he'll hook his feet on the inside of your thighs, and use his arms to pull out yours, effectively flattening you and leaving him in one of the most dominant positions there is).
Thirdly, submissions. As this video said, the pace at which submissions are looked for is very different for BJJ and Judo, owing to peculiarities in the rules for each. However, the positions are very similar and quite interchangeable, as Mike showed in this video. In BJJ you have the luxury of not having to worry about being pinned and losing the match, which allows for a slower, more deliberate setup. In my experience though, both are very effective, owing to different things. Achieving a submission in Judo is often predicated on you completing a throw (which does not result in an ippon - where the throw puts the opponent on his/her back with control, ending the match). Using the tsuri-goshi again as an example, you can see that after completion of the throw, the opponent's arm is still held tightly, allowing the thrower to immediately jump into an arm-bar, or similar sort of position. If the arm is lost in the throw, it is much harder to achieve that lightning fast submission Mike was talking about. In BJJ (with competitors of similar levels of skill) a takedown will usually result in a person first fighting for a good defensive position (the most common example being closed guard) before they attempt to set up the submission. Thus, a takedown in BJJ can not go exactly to plan per se, but still allow you a solid position from which to work.
So in short, what I'm saying is, both arts share a huge amount of techniques, just with different principles that are predominantly based around peculiarities in tournament rules, and in the case of BJJ, self-defence. The focus is different - in Judo, scoring an ippon ends the match. It doesn't require a submission or pin, just a well-executed throw. In BJJ, the fight is about establishing position and preferably succeeding in submitting your opponent. Both use the same techniques to get to positions that are often the same, just with a different emphasis.
FINALLY, to your point about the advantages of the two styles in a real-world scenario. I've done standup martial arts for six years before I took up BJJ. What I often found during full contact sparring (not rules-based, more to try and simulate a street fight type of scenario) was that, being a small guy who doesn't weigh much, the fight almost always ended up on the floor. I've only been involved in one serious altercation in the (mad) real world, and it was a similar story. I threw a punch, but was slightly off target, so the blow glanced off the guy's face. Hitting the sweet spot when your adrenalin is up and the fight happens without warning can be very difficult. Doing TKD, I'm sure you know that hitting the sweet spot even in training can be difficult. Even with my training, I was slightly off balance after the punch, after which the fellow (who was extremely drunk at the time) fell on top of me. I didn't know what to do, and was lucky enough to get out and get up unharmed. However, it could've easily ended up with a really large, drunk man sitting on top of me, wailing on me.
What BJJ has taught me in terms of real-world application, is what to do in such a situation. It isn't what you might think from watching movies, where I pull some sick sweep and choke the guy out. It's more that, once in that situation, I have a better idea of how to get back to my feet without getting seriously hurt, or alternatively, locking the guy up so that he can't move until he either calms down (which really does happen when the adrenalin starts to wear off) or someone such as your friends, a good Samaritan, or a police officer, can take control of the situation.
I hope this has been helpful!
mickey6688 Thank you very much for taking time answering me. You explained exactly the points that were still unclear to me, so it was really a big help :)
My pleasure.
mickey6688 Great post
mickey6688 firstly true you bring them to the ground in both art secondly you said you do bjj and now we can see you are complete bias haha when you say it have a greater variety of takedown in bjj than judo its ridiculous statement right there hum you say double leg in bjj its probably bcz you do no gi class and a no gi class got wrestling throw in it bcz its not bjj but grappling class but most of it its bjj and by that same road i can almost say you learn your bjj in a mma school no grip???? nah if you watch competition video in 100% of them you see grip both are done with a gi so its all abouth the grip Throw are complete diferent you dont pass people over your back in bjj cmon plzzz................anyway i dont to be rude but you know shit about both art so i will stop comenting for every single of your comment in that wrong book you got no comon sens at all
That is what is so great with BJJ though. You can take your time and be precise and doesn't put you at a disadvantage. You don't know how many new people I have went against where they are explosive and going very fast, but I just take my time and sweep them over. Skill and patience is more effective then jumping around and blowing your energy.
Well, the ending "Do" in Judo means "way", while the ending "Jitsu" in Jiujitsu means "Art". "Do" implies a philosophy, a way of life that goes beyond the physical techniques. "Jitsu" just implies art, the learning and mastering of said techniques and nothing else. Kano named "Judo" because as you say he did want his students to become something more than just mere fighters, but exemplary people in society. Although this is true, this isn't the reason why Kano changed the competitive Judo rules
where i used to train we'd be lucky to train newaza once a week. i had good teachers but I think because judo is so competition based nowadays, a lot of schools (speaking for the US) neglect the ground aspect of the art.
Yes, this is true. I actually make an effort not to land on people but maintain control after a throw. Unfortunately some guys train to hurt their partners but in a fight it may be wise (depending on the situation) to do so.
Nice video.
@demonlord11000, you know, fist of all ists your decision so probably you would need to see or try other martial arts.In my opinion, judo is the best, not just because i practice it, but because the combination of great tachi waza (stand up techniques) with ne waza (ground techniques), making this sport a great opportunity for fight in to national and international competitions all around the world, also a nice way to learn discipline and if you want it, a recreational learning.
The speed is what i have problems with. I try to learn newaza from BjJ instructions, because BJJ students know their newaza, but because BjJ is based on Newaza they can go inch by inch and some of their techniques take way more than 20 seconds. Idealy you want to be in guard or hakf guard in kees than 10 seconds, otherwise you have points scored against you
jimmy alderson czcams.com/video/mPz3lym3Mls/video.html
Judo is like fine wine, BJJ is like beer
boxing305
Good thing I'm at alcoholic, because I like both.
+profd65 that was legendary
You'll be a great martial artist.
lol what a dumb ass comparisson
Totally agree!!!
There is a difference between judo taught in a lot of schools and judo contests.We still do leg grabs/pick ups in randori.But the point i was making was that in my opinion judo is better for the street and bjj is better if you are in a submission grappling match.
I think Judo pacing is faster because in a tournament you only have so long to do something before the ref stands your asses up.
shit sorry I made that comment at the start of the video and then watched more and he basically said the same thing.
delete it then
You lose if you're pinned for 25 seconds.
Martial arts come not just from Asia, but from all cultures with ancient warrior castes, including Europe and the Americas. Each perspective has value. In addition to his background in Chinese arts, Bruce Lee was heavily influenced by western boxing and fencing in the creation of his JKD. Yes, BJJ was developed from Japanese forms, but just because something evolves from a certain source doesn't necessarily mean it is a watered down version of the original.
the prob is in judo im a judoka is that u need more then 5 seconds to do ur ground work maybe 15 seconds
So their both judo with different newaza rules. Like kosen judo for example.
A good example of how Judo neglects transitions from takedown to submission can be seen in most of Ronda Rousey's fights, which hardly ever go from take down to arm bar or hold down within a split second.
That's not a logical statement. Firstly, the opponent is always resisting so its highly unlikely for an instant transition. Secondly, it depends on the way both fighters land, who has top position after scramble, are the fighters against the cage or not, did the opponent manage to recover guard and slip in a half guard upon being thrown. There are so many factors etc. Thirdly, a good rule of thumb in almost all grappling arts is to stabilize the position and stop the initial explosion of your opponent's escape. Once we have secure it then we can think about attacking. If you watch closely, once Ronda throws someone, she has one of the fastest position transitions and submissions in the UFC.
darren tay Sarcasm was intended. My apologies. Control and transition is a Judo fundamental. Thank you.
A Santiago 😂😂😂😂
Can you tell me, what does he have on his fingers? I have seen it a lot, but I do not know what it is.
Lousy chit-chat I think it helps from tearing your skin when you grip the gi
He master baits to much and injured his fingers.
so basically there is the difference between in competition and training for the competition. and almost no difference in the art? :)
donotgettmeseriously Sport rules are dictating what is practiced. The butterfly guard comes from Judo. Sweeps come from Judo. BJJ focused more on ground work and used to practice self defense that it the same in other traditional jujitsu schools.
totally agreed with you.
Good now i have to sit my mom down and make her watch it!
seriously. and it seems that doing it all is probably the best way to be the best at any one.
great comments here
I have a comminuted mid clavicle fracture from randoori, it's been 9 months & now I need a plate and bone graft. So yeah judo can fk you up. We also had training with bjj guys once a month and vice versa it was great learning from both.
I don't know if I would be able to, but I can honestly say I would TRY to forgive because I believe that is how we can heal ourselves. I hope I will never know. For me it comes down to the golden rule. By repaying offenses double, this gives others the permission to do likewise (or more), and soon selfish brutality is "justified." why would you not want to rid yourself of that terrible stress and pain? Why would you just create more it? We must move on, as persons and as a species.
I practice judo since 20 years ago, i have fought against bjj fighters, judo has more techniques than bjj, you are right , but it depends about practice, kosen judo is not other judo style , it is judo, you can not say judo does not have techniques or style, why do i say it: when people watch UFC and techniques the think that is bjj, ahhh kimura but is not kimura is ude garami. Excuseme again my mistakes, i speak spanish not english.
I have so many people telling me jui jitsu was developed in brazil, I know nothing but about that, but i am confident that it was a form of martial arts originating in Japan. Can someone tell me the history, or make a video of the history of Jiu-Jitsu.
No time wasting comparing the grappling styles, I started judo as a kid and I gave up as it was considered as a "kids" play. Now I have been training BJJ for 5 years and rediscovering the judo so I crosstrained both and I really really enjoy it. I will even go further crosstraining with wrestlers samboists and luta livre practionners. We are evolving to the concept of the Mixed Grappling Arts.
Judo was created by Kano ….he realised before a Tokyo police tournament between different jujitsu schools to find which style the Police should be taught ….Kano realised what the Police probably needed , in other words a style where people get thrown to the ground and then hold them still until help ( other police ) arrives ( in a Riot or bar fight situation) …..it was tailored to the Tokyo polices needs …
Yes, BJJ is better at newaza because they focus 99.9% of the time at it. Judo is better at throwing because they spend 70% of the time at it. But you have the same techniques of newaza that came from jujutsu in judo & BJJ. In the end, if judo is practiced as it should be, then there's no reason to practice BJJ. Now, it's hard to find such a school outside of Japan.
It's not hard to find good schools outside of Japan. Judo is big all around Europe.
that statement is honestly...misleading. I might say if BJJ is done "correctly" (?), then there's no need for judo, by your logic. Which is true but doesn't apply to the real world. The truth of the matter is that competition rules have and will always dictate how a martial art look like. In judo a guard player will probably never be successful just because the ref will stand him up assuming he's stalling, even though he might beat every single guy in the olympics in a no-ref fight. On the other hand in BJJ even an amazing throw that could kill someone on concrete can't net you the win if you can't follow up on the ground with the submission.
But the point is, the art is taught the way it is because the competition rules are the way they are. So while
in theory both disciplines have both throws and groundwork, in practice judo will teach you how to throw and not be thrown, and BJJ how to submit and not be submitted. The 'we did it first' argument is utterly pointless, or we'd all be training in some ancient indian martial art imitating animals like they used to do, so in the end it boils down to what you'd like to focus on. That being said, you can actually do any judo technique in BJJ (it just won't automatically win you the match) but the reverse is false, a load of BJJ techniques are simply illegal in Judo, which means you won't just train them less, you won't train them at all.
At the end of the day you see fantastic throws and great submissions in judo, while you almost never see good throws in BJJ
You are right. Bjj is just a money-making-machine and not even worth it. You save a lot of money and nerves when you lookin for a good judo school than a bjj school; for sure there are some schools of other martial arts that just run behind the money, inclusive judo schools...but there's a fine and small line between these martial arts and bjj, martial arts like judo, karate, kung fu etc. are founded by poor farmers and warriors that have to work on fields next to the battlefields, this is a reason (of many reasons) why these arts have a strong influence of traditions. They are not founded of a person that want the world to believe they invented the wheel new. In other words and I'm sorry to be not sorry,because it's just simple a fact: Hipsters do Bjj, real men do Judo...point.
Rzzuuuiggghh Vggjjk you make no sense, gender has nothing to do with what martial art is better for fighting. when mixed martial arts where in its infancy it was clearly that bjj had the edge over any other martial art, maybe also wrestling. the thing is the most fights go to the ground if you dont have good takedown defense and besides wrestlers nobody knew how to avoid going to the ground. when reaching the ground a bjj guy will always win (i am talking about the times when there was no such thing as mma). even if bjj was developed from judo, bjj is very different in scope. when maeda taught judo in brazil, the students (gracies) started to use those techniques for real fights like luta livre (no rules fighting) so they developed bjj as a self defense art. now if you want to be a complete fighter you should train mixed martial arts, meaning you should know bjj (a self defense type of bjj that is focused at defending against striking as well), wrestling for takedowns, top control and takedown defense and striking which is a combination of boxing, muay thai, taekwondo or karate. the most important thing when you train a martial art you should using it from the wide perspective of mixed martial arts, meaning that when you practice a specialized art like boxing or taekwondo you should always assume you are fighting a mixed martial artist in order to not expose yourself to other types of attack that are not specific to the martial art in question. like bjj for mma is different from sport bjj where you have specific rules that limit what the opponent can do.
The Judo guy confuses me re: transitions and Judoka 'incorporating' butterfly guard into Newaza like it is something rare.
My 7th Dan teacher was Kodokan trained. Control of opponents after throw with transition into pin or submission is a basic and taught right from start. We practise it in Randori. As for butterfly guard, it is one of the first things in Newaza we learn, except we call it turning over from bottom. I don't remember the Japanese name.
May be USA do not train Newaza as much.
Crazy has been famously defined as "repeating the same action over and over and expecting a different result." This is what we do when we respond to violence with more violence and somehow expect it to create peace.
This is looking at Judo V BJJ from a stand point of BJJ in a Judo torniment. What about the other way around?
American Berserker leg reaping is legal n widely used as a sweep set up in judo. While BJJ banned it.
o really? i didn't know
I train BJJ but I would train some Judo if I could. I had a chance several years back but trained aikido instead and now im kicking myself for it. If I could find a decent school nearby i'd definitely try it.