The first shop I worked at cut gears using hobbing and while it was cool to see the teeth emerge it was nowhere near this fast. You never stop learning new things in this industry. Love it!
I personally make gears at my job and it's always satisfying to watch it being cut. High tolerance gears are very difficult to make, but also satisfying to see the end result after they are done. I run a Hob machine and a high speed Gear shaper. Hobs are very similar to this
you can really synchronize them rather easily, what's more difficult is figuring the feeds and speed to prevent the feed from bogging down and breaking the tools
The spindle and the holder are rotated by servomotors. The cheap ones have 10,000 pulses for one rotation, the more advanced ones have 1.2 million pulses per rotation. It's a matter of sending syncrhonized pulsed to both motors at their specific pulse rate and the servo will keep up with those rates. You can get whatever combination of rotation speeds. Funny thing it's called electronic gearing :)
@@rb8049 It is. The servos are running PID loop (proportional, integral, derivative). Actually they are running 3 PID looks one within the other. The innermost is the current loop. That controls the current stays in the commanded parameters. With current comes torque and adjustment to load. An outer loop is on the servo speed and the outmost is on position (recall I said pulses, one pulse 1/1.2million of one rotation). If you allow the servo PID loop to accept few pulses of error that's few pulses in 1.2 million in terms of inaccuracy on the speed alone. That's nothing.
@@car9167 I would be interested to know if they are using something as simple as 2 uncoupled closed loops fed with effectively open loop harmonic signals. I suppose it is possible to make it work this way, but the performance requirements to independently keep the relative positions in the range of precision machining seems insane. But I am not so familiar with industrial servos, so maybe they are better than I expect. I think it would be more interesting if they had some coupling between some of the inner loops, which may improve the performance for the objective of synchronising the motor positions. This could also mean each motor/controller individually does not need to have such a high performance level and would potentially reduce costs due to a more thoughtful design. Either way, it's probably a trade off between engineering time and part cost. If it is possible to "brute force" with off-the-shelf drivers and control systems for not much more cost then probably not worth engineering a more complex "optimal" system. And it's also probably proprietary so I doubt we will get an official answer.
Pretty awesome to see how bigger gears are made. We make most of ours using Wire EDM, perfect accuracy and u can make the teeth any size u need with a a simple number change. But ours are usually -5mm in size. Something that size would take like 50hrs on an EDM lol.
The cut is so satisfying and it’s so cool that even though the tool spinning so fast, everything is timed together so that it puts in the perfect gear shape. Love it!
So are DMG Mori, Hermle, GF Mikron, Makino, etc. You only think Heller is so great because Titan pushes it like it's the next best thing since protein powder, which he does with any product he's selling.
We make such gears at my work but its not nearly as fast. It does not rotate at such speeds. Im not sure what its called in english but the tool is just cutting in Z-axis while rotating very slowly in sync with the rotation of the workpiece. The machine is like 40 years old :D
Can you power skive a missing tooth spline? Trying to come up with a better solution than milling like we have. Part is inconel. 4 splines less that 3/4 diameter and maybe 1"long. Part is 26.5" long. Currently takes 4 hours using a form mill.
So I'm taking it, that the tool when it presses into the part, it starts about 1/3 of the cut. When the tool spins with the part albeit at a higher speed, the circular motion of the tool in-line with the part conducts another 1/3 of the cut. This all happens at extremely fast speeds. Then when the tool leaves, the last 1/3 of the cut also involves the chip/shaving to be thrown out. This is different than a normal cut where you tend to scrape or cut away at a part that is sitting still. This is you pressing into the part, a little like reaming but not quite.
We cut little 2inch OD 7075 aluminum gears at my shop, they take 17 minutes on a mill just for half the diameter lol. One of these Hellers would cut that to 17 seconds!
A technician of a different OEM proposing a similar solution (power skiving on a 5 axis vertical milling machine) told me that normally you can achieve quality 8 or 7 (DIN). In some cases he said you can go up to quality 6. However, in my experience with geat cutting machines, quality is strongly dependant on tool and workholding.
I can remember the first time cutting gears the set-up time and only cutting one tooth at a time. The job seemed to be forever to get one part done now watching this video what a different
There is also a flexible way of cutting gears on not gear specific machines, it’s called Invomilling. Basically you can cut any gear with 3 tools. Is from Sandvik Coromant. The machine motion in the end creates the tooth shape not the shape of the tool.
I want to make some heat sinks and to do that I need to skiv some copper. Who does that? Can I do it on my machine? Can I build a machine that can do it?
hmm, i only know milling gears in a way to looks like a worm gear cutting the teeth in a rotating disk, but this one here looks like a pinion gear. I guess the principle behind "Skiving" works similar to rotary broaching... funny to have both methods shown in short succession
we bought that tech a few months ago too. too bad our boss bough machines that are pretty shit and they have controll issues and can't actually get skiving to work
The first shop I worked at cut gears using hobbing and while it was cool to see the teeth emerge it was nowhere near this fast. You never stop learning new things in this industry. Love it!
My first gear was programed by Hand with a tapered end mill using a kia 21lns 90⁰ live tooling 😂 I wore brown pants that day
I personally make gears at my job and it's always satisfying to watch it being cut. High tolerance gears are very difficult to make, but also satisfying to see the end result after they are done. I run a Hob machine and a high speed Gear shaper. Hobs are very similar to this
I kind of like that Titan seemed like a normal guy in this video rather than a character in an action film. BOOM great video.
also Power Skiving is probably my favorite machining technique
Last time I machined a gear as it spun was when I ran out of oil in my rear differential. Sounded exactly like this 😂
Amazing the motors can be synchronized with such precision.
you can really synchronize them rather easily, what's more difficult is figuring the feeds and speed to prevent the feed from bogging down and breaking the tools
The spindle and the holder are rotated by servomotors. The cheap ones have 10,000 pulses for one rotation, the more advanced ones have 1.2 million pulses per rotation. It's a matter of sending syncrhonized pulsed to both motors at their specific pulse rate and the servo will keep up with those rates. You can get whatever combination of rotation speeds. Funny thing it's called electronic gearing :)
@@car9167 still amazed it’s that accurate with variable loading.
@@rb8049 It is. The servos are running PID loop (proportional, integral, derivative). Actually they are running 3 PID looks one within the other. The innermost is the current loop. That controls the current stays in the commanded parameters. With current comes torque and adjustment to load. An outer loop is on the servo speed and the outmost is on position (recall I said pulses, one pulse 1/1.2million of one rotation). If you allow the servo PID loop to accept few pulses of error that's few pulses in 1.2 million in terms of inaccuracy on the speed alone. That's nothing.
@@car9167 I would be interested to know if they are using something as simple as 2 uncoupled closed loops fed with effectively open loop harmonic signals.
I suppose it is possible to make it work this way, but the performance requirements to independently keep the relative positions in the range of precision machining seems insane. But I am not so familiar with industrial servos, so maybe they are better than I expect.
I think it would be more interesting if they had some coupling between some of the inner loops, which may improve the performance for the objective of synchronising the motor positions. This could also mean each motor/controller individually does not need to have such a high performance level and would potentially reduce costs due to a more thoughtful design.
Either way, it's probably a trade off between engineering time and part cost. If it is possible to "brute force" with off-the-shelf drivers and control systems for not much more cost then probably not worth engineering a more complex "optimal" system. And it's also probably proprietary so I doubt we will get an official answer.
Thank you for all the amazing free resources!! Much love for the TITANS team!
Now this is truly TOP GEAR machining!
Pretty awesome to see how bigger gears are made. We make most of ours using Wire EDM, perfect accuracy and u can make the teeth any size u need with a a simple number change. But ours are usually -5mm in size. Something that size would take like 50hrs on an EDM lol.
The cut is so satisfying and it’s so cool that even though the tool spinning so fast, everything is timed together so that it puts in the perfect gear shape. Love it!
Seems so simple but mind-blowing!🤯
Heller is versatile. Machines, spindles, tooling, etc. Their facility is full of surprises! 😁
A genius move to put this video out soon after rotary broaching!
There literally is nothing cooler than watching power skiving! It’s incredible at the speed of the synchronization! Well done Heller!
Yes!! More gear content please!
Just here at the stop sign, watching my favorite channel, let's gooo!
Thats awesome we used to regrind our gear cutters too but nothing that huge! Love this!
Boom baby its heller
Heller machines are very powerful machines, I really like it!!
So are DMG Mori, Hermle, GF Mikron, Makino, etc. You only think Heller is so great because Titan pushes it like it's the next best thing since protein powder, which he does with any product he's selling.
We make such gears at my work but its not nearly as fast. It does not rotate at such speeds. Im not sure what its called in english but the tool is just cutting in Z-axis while rotating very slowly in sync with the rotation of the workpiece. The machine is like 40 years old :D
Hobbing is the process I think in English.
Can you power skive a missing tooth spline? Trying to come up with a better solution than milling like we have. Part is inconel. 4 splines less that 3/4 diameter and maybe 1"long. Part is 26.5" long. Currently takes 4 hours using a form mill.
Wow, super educational, I did not even know this was a thing. Like broaching, but rotary, super cool.
So I'm taking it, that the tool when it presses into the part, it starts about 1/3 of the cut. When the tool spins with the part albeit at a higher speed, the circular motion of the tool in-line with the part conducts another 1/3 of the cut. This all happens at extremely fast speeds. Then when the tool leaves, the last 1/3 of the cut also involves the chip/shaving to be thrown out. This is different than a normal cut where you tend to scrape or cut away at a part that is sitting still. This is you pressing into the part, a little like reaming but not quite.
This has always been a fun thing to watch. Great work team!
This is awesome to see. All I have seen is gears cut on very old machines.
I would like to see how universal milling machines compare to propper power skiving machines in terms of quality. Do you have measured the gear?
I've sharpener that kind of cutter before an never seen 1 work before. Thank you for showing it.
Can't wait to see heller at EMO
We cut little 2inch OD 7075 aluminum gears at my shop, they take 17 minutes on a mill just for half the diameter lol. One of these Hellers would cut that to 17 seconds!
Crazy next level machining here!
Great to see Titan! Thanks for the terrific video, amazing!
That's dope ngl
Very accommondating of company to slow down and run machine w/o coolant to allow for amazing filming of process, Thanks Ray Stormont
What quality class of gears can you make with this combo machine and tool?
A technician of a different OEM proposing a similar solution (power skiving on a 5 axis vertical milling machine) told me that normally you can achieve quality 8 or 7 (DIN). In some cases he said you can go up to quality 6. However, in my experience with geat cutting machines, quality is strongly dependant on tool and workholding.
It is similar to rotary broaching.
Add this machine and tooling to the extremely long list of things I want!
I won't be satisfied until I get my hands on one to see how it works myself.
Best CNC machinist page...❤❤🎉
Mind blowing technology!
I can remember the first time cutting gears the set-up time and only cutting one tooth at a time.
The job seemed to be forever to get one part done now watching this video what a different
Best set up: Heller machine & LMT Fette Skiving Tool ⚙️ ⚙️ ⚙️
So the tool cuts on it's bottom, as the Z axis pushes down, right. So it is like intermittent hobbing ? while rotating?
WHat kind of surface finish can you get with skiving
That’s pretty bad ass
Never seen this kind of machining before😮
I've been looking at building the hardware to do this with my lathe, info on tooling and such would be helpful
Great video 💪
There is also a flexible way of cutting gears on not gear specific machines, it’s called Invomilling. Basically you can cut any gear with 3 tools. Is from Sandvik Coromant. The machine motion in the end creates the tooth shape not the shape of the tool.
So it's like broaching but while everything spins tegether?
When u doin a video on punch tapping? Get the word out!
Finaly gear machining!
Make a video on punch tapping
Was that an internal spline?
something like rotary broaching but for gears
That must be some real complicated math to make the tool and to generate the Gcode.
Could you knurl in gears? Like the concept of knurling but make gears.
Yes, it is possible. LMT Tools is offering such kind of tools, they call them rolling systems
that has to be a helova closedloop system to be in sync im sure if a sensor goes bad the part along with it...?
To cope with these issues the NCs provides the "retract" function which moves the tool out of the workpiece in case of alarms
Which company did provide the tools? As far as i understood only the CNC Machine is from Heller.
Heller has a cooperation with LMT Fette regarding skiving tools
What controller is on that heller?
How is the skiving tool made? EDM?
Hi-love all you are doing-would have liked to see chips from power skiving-don’t really get how it works…
But how do you program this?
I want to make some heat sinks and to do that I need to skiv some copper. Who does that? Can I do it on my machine? Can I build a machine that can do it?
Is the machine a lathe or a mill? as on a Lathe you spin the work and on a mill you spin the tool.
Not 100% but pretty sure it would be a lathe, since u can use a live tool holder and spin the tool and the part at the same time
so what made the tool that cuts the gears then?
Grinding machines and very skilled people
I know it. I work with that
Boom
hmm, i only know milling gears in a way to looks like a worm gear cutting the teeth in a rotating disk, but this one here looks like a pinion gear.
I guess the principle behind "Skiving" works similar to rotary broaching... funny to have both methods shown in short succession
Do you lift bro? 😂 nice vid
I wondered when Mr CNC was going to get around to skiving.....
Try zyklo palloid
❤❤❤
we bought that tech a few months ago too. too bad our boss bough machines that are pretty shit and they have controll issues and can't actually get skiving to work
The word "skiving" in Scotland means knock off work early but the "power skiver" was far more interesting as it stays at work...
man be 1 letter away from having a legendary name
😯
Was that the young version of Gordon Ramsay.
Awesome tool. Did you say it was carbide?
He said solid carbide. Must be insanely expensive.
Its actually powder mettalurgic HSS.
Smaller tools may be carbide
it's basically a normal gearing setup expect one gear is axially off and sharpened
I see it and still dont comprehend it
AWESTRUCK
Everyone sounds like an autotune robot
I bet you could probably buy a car for the price of that tool lol
is it me or do voices sound weird in this video?
Yup I still don't understand it. I think I'll need to sleep on this
🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 ✨✨✨ 👍👍👍
hey bro is it a tool or not? Couldn't tell from the vid.