Why You Should NOT Get a Patent!
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 03. 2017
- Let's talk about why you should NOT get a patent, what patents are, and other intellectual property buzzwords and laws that you should know as an entrepreneur!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Links for this video
Thanks to Ty Kendrick for joining us! Ty can be reached at:
kern-kendrick.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reach us / CNC Info:
Speeds & Feeds: provencut.com
Download Fusion 360: www.dpbolvw.net/click-9255839...
Online Fusion 360 Training: bit.ly/LearnFusion360
Hands-On CNC Classes: www.nyccnc.com/events
SMW Products: saundersmachineworks.com/
CNC Resources: www.nyccnc.com
Music copyrighted by John Saunders 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH - Věda a technologie
I guess times have changed. Years ago, a friend's father, a machine shop owner in New York, invented and patented several tools for making men's hats. A large company infringed on his patents, and he won a judgement. The offending company had to not only pay him a substantial compensation, but also had to relinquish all of their inventory and spare parts. With all of this, my friend's dad had enough products on hand that he never had to make anymore himself.
carver3419 interesting,.. how long ago was that?
carver3419 - Happens every day (literally.) My firm won $2.8B this year alone.
"interesting,.. how long ago was that?"
I dropped in to the old man's machine shop on Bleeker Street in NYC in the early 1960s. He told me the story - and showed me some of the tools he invented. I was later told that during WWII he couldn't get enough materiel to run his shop full time, so he opened a hat factory on Canal Street during the war. I assumed the suit was in the '50s, but my friend has died and I have no way to check.
Well these days you just need expensive enough lawyers, someone who can match the corporate expenses. For the individual this just doesn't work out, especially when infringing companies learn how to make an almost copy which can't be exactly matched so it is down to who makes their argument better.
These days, it's hundreds of Chinese factories that will infringe on your patents and they don't give AF about US-based litigation. NYC CNC is completely correct with his video.
Thanks for the video. This is an interesting topic as I am actually a Patent Attorney and file a lot of patents globally. Utility Patents are not the solution for every invention. I recommend talking to patent attorney about your invention before commercialising as once you have sold or published your invention its often too late to claw back inventorship rights. Often a cheaper way of protecting smaller innovations is to apply for a Design Patent which cost significantly less and are much easier to enforce as there is no argument about claim language and the innovation only has to be new and not necessarily inventive.
Three minutes into this video and you've completely nailed it. 0:00-3:00 was my exact experience. It completely depends on everyone's exact scenario, but this seems to be very common in the machining and fabrication field.
"It's all about execution."
So I should hire a hitman to take out patent infringers. Fair enough. :D
I made a lot of money licensing many patents. Simple I would have not made a dollar without it. This a joke.
Haha will cost less!
@@chihuynh4204 exactly, you make money by being a predator to a guy that is being picked at like a whale in a pond full of piranha
of they sold my design and claimed it themselves by trading my brain yes
Hire a hitman to take out patent infringers?
I think there's a patent on that process.
Thank you for posting this. Very well done - nice broad coverage of the types of intellectual property with specific information on what each is, the costs and time to implement and implications for enforcement. Haven't seen anything covering this much info so well in such a short amount of time in an easy to understand and entertaining format. Great job!
John keep putting out vids on business. I went to law school. Not to be a lawyer to be a more informed business professional. You get paid on what you know not on what you don't know. The topic of patents you and I are the only ones I have come across that actually know it really doesn't matter. With the exception if you want to sell the company and the buyer wants that protection.
Excellent video. You are definitely setting yourself apart. Keep it going.
Will from Akron, Ohio
As a former corporate commercial attorney, I find the legal discussion is a little anachronistic. I side with motion that small shops ought not get patents. My reasoning is that patents are useful for actions between manufacturers of products that are subject to mass distribution. Therefore the "age of patents" was pretty much the age of mass distribution, which was tied to the age of mass media. I say "was", because that age seems to be passing. Socialist states still have mass distribution, however surveillance capitalism is creating a reemergence of tailored distribution networks, and local brokers with local endorsements. To understand why patent law is pretty much useless with tailored distribution networks, imagine trying to rip off Matsura machines. You would have to work so hard to copy their precision that you would be a master tool maker in your own right. Their customised, continuous discipline of excellence precludes theft of IP. As Steve Jobs said, you can't steal excellence. Nor can you patent it. Therefore, if you are a small shop, or otherwise wish to build a business based on local endorsement and tailored distribution networks, it follows that your focus must be upon excellence, and the value of human relationships that endorse your values in the local network. Patents, and their lawyers, are for planned economies of scale. If you are in one, get one.
Ok, but not everyone is trying to rip off Matsura machines. They’re usually ripping off claimed utility on a less granular scale.
@@crypastesomemore8348 it's an example of excellence that's it
6 years later…still an amazing video! Not only giving your side but bringing a professional to rebuttal! Excellent👏🏼
I just filed for my first preliminary patent. I think all inventors should at least go through the process. I learned a ton, and not just about what I invented and the law. Sure, I may not be able to defend it if a Fortune 500 company infringes on it, but having a legal justification which proves I am an inventor is a positive professional discriminator, and opens up new opportunities and resources. A patent also shows that no only are you innovative and can find novel solutions to relevant and complex problems, but that you have the work ethic and drive to document what you've worked hard to design. If all you see is what things cost, you may want to take a look under the surface. Because in the end, it's not about the money, and I am absolutely better off with the experience.
I concur to John on this. To imabeapirate : please come back in a few years time and share with us what you've learned over these years; most likely it will not resemble what you are saying here. I hold 3 patents in 3 different countries (Europe) and If I were to start all over again, I would definitely stay away from any patent process. If you have a say when it comes to a new product, it is customers that will pay for your idea/product/efforts/hopes/dreams/etc. Just my 2 cents.
To both of you, how has it gone with your patents? Mihai, wouldn't getting a patent protect from someone ELSE trying to stop you from making/selling the product?
Me to I could write a book on it!
Wow this is a good perspective!
@@sl4983 I'm pretty sure you can't file a patent for products that are already in the marketplace.
Thank you so much! Going through this right now. Love your channel, learned a ton!
Patents in general have stifled creativity. I used to keep a notebook of my ideas for potential patent but pretty much just keep it now as a wish list of things to make/use. I'll never get a patent from the reasons cited here in John's video and from research I did 20-30 years ago. Like many have said before, it takes money to make money, and there is no better example than patents. Much better to just contribute as open source software/hardware. The Chinese see all ideas (patented or not) as "sharing" in order to make whatever they want. It would be next to impossible to stop them or anyone like them.
This made me decide to push through with the production and getting my invention to market and focus all my money and energy to the creation part not the patenting part that is very draining, vague and has very small benefit for someone like me who is just starting out
Enjoyed the chat guys, lots of helpful info there!
Thanks John, another superb info source. Ty is a very well spoken and knowledgeable guy, props to him for his smooth and understandable explanation of the system.
Really appreciate you taking the time to make this type of vid. I'd be interested to hear what your lawyer says about filing a patent to protect against future patent trolls (someone patenting the idea you're executing on and taking you to the cleaners).
Greaat Information for those of us who aren't familiar with patent law... but it is really soooo much more complex than this
thanks for the information and going thru the difficulties and efforts to do these interviews etc john
Nice video, John. I also obtained a patent for a mechanical design that I was having made. What I didn't know is that you have to make additional payments to the patent office in order to keep the patent after it's been issued. I was very happy that I was able to keep the "total" cost of obtaining the patent at $15K (10 years ago). That is, until I found out that I had to pay the patent office every now and then to maintain the patent.
As a 30+ year patent/trademark/copyright lawyer, it was refreshing to see a real patent lawyer address these questions and correct some common misconceptions. Two things that may not have been emphasized enough, IMO, are: 1) The ability to enforce patent rights is largely dependent on the value of the patent; and 2) the ability to protect with trade secret law depends largely on the ability to keep the technology secret after commercialization. For #1, if the technology does not have a commercial value in excess of $1M, it is unlikely that it would make sense to enforce through actual litigation. You will still be able to enforce against innocent infringers who just didn't know, but the option to sue someone who is knowingly trying to cheat is limited. For #2, trade secrets are a valid option when you can commercialize the technology without competitors being able to reverse engineer it. But if the technology can be reverse engineered as soon as the product hits the market, the value of trade secret protection is essentially zero.
Another comment, the $20K (or so) cost to obtain and maintain a patent is chicken feed in the world of products with value. Maybe I'll want to enforce it, maybe I won't, but it's at least a bargaining chip and may keep some competitors at bay. I've seen clients decide not to pursue patent protection for "trivial" improvements that they thought were likely not patentable and of limited value, only to have a competitor file for a patent on that same technology and end up costing the client 10x the cost of a patent to defend against the competitor's assertion of infringement. Do that a couple of times and the economics of whether to pursue patent protection can start to look different.
Great video. Not a big fan of the clickbait and somewhat deceptive (IMO) title. It seems to suggest that people should not get patents, and while that is true in some/many cases, it is certainly not true is many other cases. Like when the technology cannot be kept a secret and has real commercial value.
I can definitely see what you're saying, the trade secrets only work in certain situations, and what you describe in the second paragraph is the situation that I fear. Which makes me think, for that reason above all, I should just go ahead and pursue a patent. If I can protect myself from being able to be made to stop, then I can come to terms with the other risks, which I may not necessarily be able to (or see worthwhile to) enforce...seeing tweaked versions pop up, seeing Chinese copies pop up, etc. As long as I can still do what I'm doing, that's what matters most to me. Is this a reasonable thought pattern to have?
This was a very helpful comment. Thank you
BEST video yet!!! Same reason that I got into machining is wanting to build my own products but I've been stressing about this very subject for years now. Thanks for the info
Risky video, but practical. I appreciate both perspectives. thanks for sharing, John!
Thank you for the upload, John. Good points. I'm also an inventor and a machnist. I've been fortunate enough to purchase a small machine shop plug and play, where i do strictly my projects, no walk in traffic or jobs outside. l have one invention gone to market and is currently on the shelf. This video helped me on the question i've had too, is do I really need a patent. I've learned like what John pointed out, that patents only give you the teeth to go after an infringer in court. There is no patent police, you have to be the police and spend the money to go after that bad guy. Another is every inventor thinks his idea can be or will be stolen. Most of time, the idea is placed on a shelf and never see the light of day, but that inventor has that assurance nobody will get to his idea. John saying, just go for it, and go to market, chances are, nobody will steal your idea or copy your product. Even if you have a patent, you still have to spend money to defend it...
Great video John. My team went through the actions of a patent to find out what you did. Also we have since discovered that some of our friends in Asia do not care about the patent at all and they will be happy to copy your idea for their profits!
Mostly china 😂
@@Brovider Ironically, Apple is notorious for lawfare against competitors over petty visual distinctions such as icons for apps having rounded edges justifying a trademark or something.. some poetic justice being Apple being sued for design theft from Chinese company who ironically stole their design from Apple insider spies. SMH LOL
Thanks for sharing that, a great overview of the process, and the differences between copyrights, trademarks etc. And thanks to Ty for the great perspectives.
i love this cnc stuff... and about patents.. this is logically a very important subject for any manufacturer and inventor..great video. so i am subscribing... john, you wrote and recorded and copywrited the rock n roll music on this video? it sounded really good! and great video on patents.. thanks for doing a good job all the way around.
This is an eye-opener and beautifully described video. Thank you very much for the Video. All the best.
SPOT ON. Thank you for your deep insights.. I greatly under-estimated the preview thumbnail before I clicked, and then you started spitting fire lol. You rockstar. Thanks..
As a youngster, I invented a system related to safety, I patented it, then the US military stole the patented system and installed it on military gear. I rapidly found that it was impossible to sue them and win. So, in revenge against the company that built the gear for the US military, I released all rights in the system to every competitor of that company and we engaged in “cross licensing” where we each had free use of the others patented things. Later we came up with the auto cross licensing of improvements, so the constant creep of development was covered. The firm that stole my idea and sold it to the US government is now about 1/10th the size it was back then.
How do you pass the sniff test? 😮
This could have been hours long, would love to see more of this.
Great channel my friend, keep going. I’m a woodworker but I’m always looking to branch out. Thank You!
Thank you so much for this type of video! I kinda have a hard time finding good honest information anywhere about patents and if I should pursue one. This is a very valuable video to me because I learned much from it. Me being an inventor who is trying to get atleast one of my finished ideas into the business world, this video really gave me some much needed insight. I tried to pursue a patent before on one of my inventions, I filed the paperwork sent it in and only got it to patent pending status, but i was totally lost on what to do afterwards because i thought i need to file patents in other countries as well cause i learned that patents only cover the region they are filed in and i learned other stuff too that overwhelmed me due to the fact I didn't know what i was doing. I vowed next time i would just keep it simple and focus on starting a business and securing funding which brings me to a question if you can answer it, 24:35 in some situations i think i would need to tell some people about my invention especially when presenting my business plan and the product my business would sell. The question i want to ask is are non-disclosure agreements necessary If you don't plan on filing a patent?
That depends on the content of your patent and what kind of "inventor" you are. Ideally, you shouldn't need to present your intellectual property to secure funding, and if you do need to, if you are presenting to a possible manufacturer, then you need to have a patent or a non-compete agreement. A non-disclosure agreement doesn't stop anyone from manufacturing whatever you told them, full stop. As soon as your secret leaves your head, it is market-viable.
Without a patent, you'll need several agreements (or a very well-defined single agreement) that give you a legal route to pursue, should those financiers decide to break their end of the agreement (s). Again, though, you have to have funds available to go after these lawsuits and the cost is relative to how well or how poorly you crafted those agreements (get a lawyer).
I work under probably 1000+ NDA's every single day, and I could easily take that knowledge and turn a profit, if I determine that any one of those organizations didn't have the financial guts to come after me. It is a risk assessment that I would make should I want to do so. Most of those organizations have revenues in the hundreds of millions of dollars, so I tend to keep that information to myself all of the time.
However, if it was little Joe blow you with limited knowledge of the law or your rights and limited funds to hire a competent legal advisor, there is certainly a business case that could be justified. If your think you truly have a winner of an idea, then spend the money to get a patent filed. You have much broader protections than with agreements.
Great info. Thanks
Awesome video! Thank you. One question about marking a brand "TM"... can you do this without registering and its considered common law TM?
THANKS!
I agree. I spent about $300K on numerous worldwide patents and then when it comes to enforcing it, the large companies has setup the system so that it is impossible to defend it without several hundred thousand more to defend it. The patent system is totally screwed.
Great topic We all have any idea and have thought about a patent but have no idea where to start and the cost. Thank you for sharing GW
On a tangential note, there also exists the Ⓜ (letter M in a circle), for "Integrated circuit layout design protection", you probably only encounter it when you play with strong fuming nitric acid and a microscope. It's for asserting the rights to a chip design in the electronics industry.
I guess it's better to market and manufacture full steam . Make the money and get out fast . Move on to the next project and do it again and again. Then seek everything and retire. Good advice! Thank you
good information, clearly presented, thanks. I wish I'd had this clarity of guidance 15 years ago! I learned the hard way.
I'm a design engineer and have been generating patents for my customers or employers for years. In one interesting case I came up with a critical solution to a problem that threatened a $30M development project. We applied for a patent but it was rejected because a competitor had designed something virtually identical and patented it first. However I noted that the function of the feature as listed in their patent, while also a benefit, was different than the primary reason we designed it. I asked the lawyer to resubmit the patent on these grounds and it was awarded.
But there are reasons to patent, just ask the Robert Kearns regarding intermittent wipers.
Hi
Do you have some video for how to prevent breakage of end mill and other cutting tool on CNC milling machine
Thanks
Nice work guys! Thanks for posting
Great discussion.
.
In the case of a patent infringement by a 'small' competitor you can get them to stop their infringement by the threat of legal action alone. In my example (a Trademark) I found a few companies infringing on my trademark. I contacted the companies and directed them to the Government site showing my registration and gave them a written order to stop. They don't know how deep my pockets are, but they realise that they stand to lose a lot of money if they continue (legal fees alone). So they stopped. The patent/trademark can simply be a deterrent and I'm grateful to our legal system for it.
.
As for my deepest company production secrets, I don't patent those ideas (as you said the recipe is made public); I can't police the inside process of a competitor's factory (I would need a court order to start). I have my staff sign non-disclose agreements (and employment restrictions) and train my staff on what they can and cannot discuss even in their social circles. I keep my production processes as an intellectual property secret.
.
As it turns out, a patent would be handy as banks do favor you if you have a patent (discussed in minute 25).
.
As a word to everyone - listen carefully to the lawyer (minute 20). Please don't get mistaken between copyright and trademark (I often hear misunderstandings on this topic). Also remember that it costs good money to file a copyright/trademark/patent, thus 'first to file', may not be easy. Some people want to make money from the product first so that they can file a patent later.... but there is a 1 year limit (life is not easy).
Thanks for sharing
john great vid, as an inventor/engineer you talk a lot of sense. the point I would like to raise is once you get a patient everyone and there dog knows how your idea works, let them work it out themselves, don,t give away all the hard work. its easy to stand on the shoulder of giant's.
.
Hey do you have any advice for me I think I have a great product , I do feel like I might be robbed of my idea and I don't know the proper channels to go to protect it or to see if it's marketable. Is the lawyer in this video good ,trustworthy and does he take cases from other states?
Glad you had an attorney in this video, as I have recently learned myself you need to talk to someone who actually knows what they are talking about. The law is not something an entrepreneur should be trying to take on, its not a problem you can easily solve by working it out yourself, researching on the internet, watching youtube videos or asking friends (unless they are attorneys). There is a point at which your (mine, the entrepreneur ect.) cheapness is a huge detriment to your business. I watched this video and came to the opposite conclusion of the video title.
NYC CNC I would just say don't let the "potential nightmare" of having to defend a patent immediately put you into a mindset that a patent is beyond you or not for you. I used to think that myself until I spoke with people that have patents and spoke with a good/reputable IP firm. I have come to believe that the process of having experienced people perform a prior art search is a great way to help you understand if what you think is a great idea actually is, and it is immensely valuable in helping you make the decision of taking the next step to file an application or not. I'm surprised Tye didn't touch on that, because the more I learn the more I believe doing so is one of the most essential steps in the process.
bensbenz - Dead nuts on. You get it.
Hopefully you guys can shed some light on my situation if you don't mind: I have an idea I've been sitting on that I don't want to develop. I have the basic idea, you could run in a dozen different directions with it, and to be honest: some of them are over my head. What I'd like to do is take my idea to some companies, and see if they'd like to buy it from me. I assume here that I would need a patent, right? I have no protection if I go out and shop my idea around without at least having submitted? Or is that where the one year rule comes into effect?
Manufacturing corporations usually will not even listen to your pitch because likely they are doing R & D themselves and could be working on something similar. If they were to listen to your pitch and subsequently introduce their product to market, they would be susceptible to being sued by you claiming they stole your idea.
If you try to sell an idea that you have no patent on, then you are most likely wasting your time and money.
If your idea has potential value, your best interests would be served if you seek out competent legal advise to guide you.
bensbenz a thorough search is *the* most essential step, if only to learn how to make your invention, and patent, better.
Great stuff. There is not enough common discussion about patent law. We all need continuing education in the law.
Thank you for covering this, I think there is a perception most of us have that patents are the path to making money. After extensively researching patents, I concluded open source for most products is the better choice for society and can still be very very profitable. In my opinion patents stifle creativity. Trademarks and copyrights are important though, I don't mind someone selling a copy of my product but I would be furious if they put my company name on it.
Cripple Concepts - Groan. To sum up your point, just give it to the Chinese or Indians. You have a crappy attorney.
The thing is, and I agree with Cripple Concepts here - That patents limit.
Look at 3D printers. Patented around 1980; the patent then eventually ran out, giving way for an open and active DIY community. Rarely has a concept exploded AND became so widely and cheaply available for EVERYONE.
Additionally: If you are the original creator and you strive for the fine, well-made details, and offer great quality for good price, then your product will sell. Chinese or Indian copies just won't have the same appeal. Even if they are cheaper - they still probably won't be as good as yours.
John - Absolutely true. Some industries, products, and customers are more conducive to open source than others. I work primarily on accessories for power wheelchairs, an industry that is heavily regulated, very proprietary, hard to enter, and that has resulted in archaic equipment, expensive equipment, and minimal ability for consumers to enhance the equipment they rely on. If your customers aren't asking for open source, if a concept is truly novel, if disclosure of design specs could lead to illegal or dangerous use of your product, or there is high probability someone can use your idea and under sell or out market you then I agree 100% on no patent but closed source. For very novel ideas, especially those ideas that are very costly/risky to develop (pharmaceuticals come to mind) I think patents with a limited life make sense. Your SMW products are great examples of products not worth patenting, making open source would probably not benefit many people, and whether open or closed source could be easily replicated but likely at a lower quality.
Crocellian - As I stated in my reply to John, what your product is and what your goal is with that product matters. If somebody want to replicate my products and sell them I will be ecstatic. I sell products to improve people's lives and most of my customers are impoverished. I get more pleasure from designing and prototyping than mass producing. I do not want to spend every dime I make fighting lawsuits to defend international patents. Lots of open source companies are extremely profitable, Lulzbot and Adafruit being two companies who are leaders in open source hardware. Patents are not right for every product, open source is not right for every company or product, I appreciate John giving his opinion and having a patent attorney give his opinion in this video, there is no one size fits all approach to intellectual property rights. I have heard John talk repeatedly about his position on partners, I have listened/read the opinions of numerous other entrepreneurs on the issue of partners, like with intellectual property decisions the decision to take on partners is very individual.
I think that Todd did a very good job with the discussion. He can't (and no patent attorney can) pull a rabbit out of a hat.
Interesting discussion and valuable information. Good video, John.
Paul Akers (Fastcap) talked about this in depth on his channel and had some of the same opinions. I've heard the horror stories from others where infringement has happened and despite forking over enormous amounts of cash to patent their product and protect it, the legal system fails them and they lose. I like what you said about using all of the resources and energy to crush the product in the marketplace. A great example is someone like the Grimsmo brothers. Someone can quite easily knock off John's designs, but it will never be a "Grimsmo" knife; and that's what people pay him for (aside from wicked knives). Great dicussion John! Looking forward to more videos from you in this style, bringing in guests!
One Word, Excellent ! Thank you for producing this video !
Hello John! Good info for anyone who creates, period.
One thing that I can tell you for a fact is old sayings should be paid attention to more closely like :
#1 - " Great minds think alike " !
In this era of creating, whether or not it pertains to business (of course it does), there are thousands, if not millions of people who engage in hobbies, work, or their own business in the general area that your interest is in.
My point in the comment above says it all... THAT IDEA YOU HAVE....
1) HAS BEEN thought of,
2) IS being thought of, or
3) WILL BE thought of at some point in time by another person who maybe doesn't PROCRASTINATE, or doesn't have the workload that you do, in effect realizing YOUR IDEA successful for him....
I have/partner in thirteen patents, could have had over thirty.... don't get caught up in that (JUST AS IN THIS VIDEO), do what you love, enjoy it, help others when you can, and save those in your data logger (brain) that you will see to fruition..... tick, tock, lol.
I wish for you to have an enjoyable and productive life... good luck! Seth
Just learning about patents & trademarks and all that fun stuff...thanks for sharing this. Definitely gave me a new perspective. Really like your philosophy on killing it on EXECUTION primarily.
Very topical and informative. I'm "new school" Open source, and I'll build it for me, for my use, and I'm happy. I have a good friend, loves patents, has 80+ of them, very old school, but I feel that his way of "business" is approaching it's end. Thanks for discussing this.
Very informative. At 23:14 the attorney points out that if you want to pursue getting a patent, the clock starts when you first publicly disclose your invention, offer it for sale or sell it, put it on Instagram, etc., and you then have a year to file your application.
I am unclear, does that means you have a year to file a Provisional Patent Application? Or, does that mean you must file for the Utility Patent itself within that one year. I am currently preparing a Provisional Patent Application for an invention that I began selling 7 months ago. So, will I have 12 months to file for a Utility Patent or 5 months? ...Thanks
very interesting. thank you for posting this.
I agree with you. I got a patent 25 years ago and had no means to make the product and was not able to maintain the patent and I could not get anyone to buy the idea so I wasted about $6000. Had I talked to this guy then I might not have gotten one. About 10 years ago I saw a tool very similar to what I designed being used on the show How Its Made.
I was wondering, if you copy write the drawings for an injection mold, make a detailed description would you have any protection of a design or invention? Though you wouldn't have protection of the end product but would you have protection of the molds, drawings and descriptions of the equipment that was used to make the end product? Sorta end around run on the protection that is afforded by a patent with a much cheaper initial cost.
Thank you! This is what I need to hear.
Thanks John!! This was very informative about the Patent process. Tell Tye , great job!!
SUPER!!!!
Great content, much learned!
Thanks,
Phil Vittetoe
John I feel as if you weren't listening to your friend. It seems like the whole time he was giving reasons why parents can actually be helpful, and then you would chime in and say "yeah that's right DON'T GET A PATENT". It seems like is a more gray area than you thought.
couldn't agree more!!!
Excellent video John, Thank you for covering this subject. Matt C.
I was going to get a design patent wich you said could take 12-18 months. But I also want to go ahead and get a provisional patent to protect it which only protects it for a year. If the provisional patent runs out before I get the design patent approved. Does that mean I can have my idea stolen in that time?!? Maybe you said I could get it renewed before it runs out? If anyone could help explain that I would appreciate it!
Wow! Lots to think about. Thanks.
Thanks John that solidified some of my opinions!
ATB, Robin
Great topic John. Thanks to both of you.
while they talk about McDonald's, all I can see is the yellow air line on the mill which clearly infringes the McDonald's trade mark!
haha, well spotted.
Dude you can't patent horse meat sandwiches AKA mc burger..
Look at all those golden arches..
Well played ... oops I ripped off Cheetos Chester cheetah
This is a great video on patents, copyrights, trademarks and even about fraud if claiming you are an inventor while you are not.
Great discussion. I got a uk patent on a musical instrument simply because it is cool when I go out and play it
John, you should be marking both NYC CNC and Saunders Machine Works logos with "TM". You should also talk to your lawyer about marking all of the files (both Fusion 360 files and any gcode) with copyrights and license information. I know you frequently share those files (especially with patreon contributors) at no cost and that's fine, but a copyright and license statement would protect you from misuse of those works. For example, you could attach a license, indicating that non-commercial uses are permitted. That would prevent others from financially benefiting from your work without your consent. A license can also include indemnification clauses, protecting you from liability.
Your comment at the end about people not really out to steal ideas reminded me of "The Lean Startup" by Eric Ries. In one of the later chapters he challenges people to call up big companies and have them try to still your idea. Even if you have something truly amazing, most organizations and leaders are too busy with the work they have to take on a new project to steal an idea.
Very helpful and informative, thank you.
Excellent explanation...thank you.
Actually a FANTASTIC.video thank you John..once again
Exactly. Say you have a patent and a big company violates your patent... They will drag out the lawsuit until you can't afford to pursue any longer. So the conclusion is that a patent isn't worth the paper it's written on. Unless you can license it out or sell it like Ty talked about.
Very interesting stuff here John. For once, I could actually understand what was being said.
I have a good friend that currently holds several patents, and he's looking to me to pursue another!
Thanks for posting this, it sheds some light on a very confusing topic!
Razor!
Great topic! Thanks John
I'm with you John, I'd rather spend my time looking forward and executing than playing defence. I've seen a lot of good companies fall flat by taking their eye off the ball. Ideally you'll want to do both but there are a lot of factors to consider.
I agree with that philosophy.
It's an old video, but an interesting little discussion and still quite relevant. I found it useful, if only to confirm some of my thoughts but also just to hear some tidy explanations of details we all know but perhaps not quite. Good video 👍🏻
I 100% agree with your views on patents. I have given the exact same advice in my videos many times.
best NYC CNC(IMHO) vid ever. Agree 100%. build it and they will come.
The idea is maybe 10-20% of a product - as you said, it's all in the execution and the work to bring it to market
this is why you have problems AFTER you sold your product, because it is then when the counterfit goes handy......it will be stupid to counterfit something you will not know it sells or not.
@SaltyBrains agree. Im working on my idea and its hard work. And nobody would help until they see success
excellent, realistic view of both sides- thank you!
Great content had to sub 🙏🏽
It comes down to this you got to be better than your competitor
Unless the competitor tells you to stop copying their patent?
Thanks for the video, I agree with you 100%
Great info, thank you!
Fascinating! Thank you.
this was the most helpful video I've ever seen!
Excellent video, thanks for explaining patents!
Year 2021: There is any way to have open patents? there is any legal resource to have as a new open standard protected by the international laws?
Do you have anyone you can recommend for contingency licensing where they offer someone that maybe didn’t know a license but if the infringer doesn’t want to take the license the infringing party pays for the IP insurance. Or do who would you recommend for IP insurance?
I think the patent laws and the way the system is set up was a great thing back in the day. Way back, when it was relevant, sometime before I was born. Like many laws that aren’t practical today it needs to be updated, possibly even done away with and an entirely new system put in place that is more relevant in today’s world, then again the patent system never was for the average guy, it certainly didn’t help Philo Farnsworth.
A LOT of people don’t understand the difference between a patent, trademark, and copywrites. I would greatly enjoy a video on trademark laws and their practical implications, as well as Your (John Saunders) opinion as well as a professionals. I recently had a product blatantly ripped off, I knew that would happen eventually, and I’m ok with a little competition... but the guy goes as far as calling his product the same name as My product, which I have spent 4+yrs marketing, building the brand, and making it a household name (in the small niche market and circles I travel) which is practically synonymous with my business name. Others have made similar products but always used their own unique name. Your 100% right though, just kill it in the marketing dept and keep making good parts, the offshore guys are going to do what they want regaurdless, it’s a real shame when it’s a fellow entrepreneur here in the states that doesn’t have the decency to stay off your toes.
Excellent, intelligent conversation... Try to take copying or counterfeiting of your product as a compliment... You are at least on the ground floor of a great idea...
does a provisional patent help protect your design. asked another way, is it possible to file a design patent at a later date while being protected by a provisional patent?
Tons of solid info, thanks!
That was very interesting. Thanks. I guess I need to take the "Golden Arches" off the trash cans I sell at the flea market.
Very informative, thank you!
Good stuff, much appreciated.
John great video. thanks for sharing.
Thanks John, that was different and interesting
Thanks for the information. After this video I am not getting a paten. Thank you for saving me money and the headache.