Oh Yeah, that's a perfect way to wrap everything about a long saga, The TierList System. I'm really glad you manage to pull off this kinda of video that is not common to your channel. The best part of the video is seeing your thoughts about the cases in a wide image, because when anyone play a specific game of Ace Attorney, they probably will rate all the 4/5/6 cases alone, and not in a huge picture like this. In my TierList, the Outstanding cases would be Goodbyes, Farewell, Bridge(My all time favorite) and Stolen(The only non-final case, because i love Luke Atmey as a villain and the whole "the first half was too easy" doesn't apply to me since i didn't solve everything so quickly during the first time). I probably should put Revolution here too... i don't know... It probably the best of A or the least best of S. My all time least favorte is Corner. I know Justice For All and Apollo Justice had more terrible cases, but the thing is, Corner is boring. Alita is boring and a rip-off from Dahlia. Wocky is the worst defendant of the series. The mystery itself is not so luring to the player. Serenade and Succession could be(and probably are) worst cases but i wanted to finish those cases because of 1 or 2 mysterys i wanted find out at the end. Corner is just... why do i even need finish it? (Also, i am not a Content Creator like you, so i could just leave the game unfinished like that. I wouldn't do that, of course, but i just trying proving the point of how little intersting to finish Corner is). Funnily enough, if Turnabout Sister happened in the more recent games, you would probably be able to 3D Analyse the recipt, so that ending would be totally different. Answering your question about the Metal Detector, i am pretty sure you MUST choose it in order to continue the investigation and find the Metal Air Tank from the Steel Samurai Ballon. The dog or the fishing pole were just "red herrings" and you would have to swap them later with Gumshoe if you choose one of them. Personal Rant not related to the video itself: In your last post, i typed that minor bad things like days without internet happen everytime so it wasn't a big deal that this video was delayed and guess what... i spent basically the entire 7th of July without internet. I am so mad that I could only watch this video about 14 hours after its release. Great video. Great talk. This journey with the Blue Suit 'n' Spiky Hair Lawyer was amazing and i super excited to watch your Ghost Trick and Danganronpa gameplay. Thumbs up, bro. Your content is awesome!
To say that Alita is a rip-off of Dahlia is to give her way too much credit. And yeah; if I wasn't making a let's play on the game, I don't know if I would've had enough determination to finish it at all. But I'm glad I did; I never would've played Dual Destinies & Spirit of Justice otherwise. And thank you so much for all the kind words :) I'm happy to hear you've been enjoying my content, and I'm excited to keep making more in the future.
The translation is better than the base game. The fact that people use the original Japanese version to protect the only bad Ace Attorney game is ridiculous. This may be subjective, but the English voice actors actually sound more passionate, and therefore far better than the original Japanese VAs. Gregory's voiced by ProZD, and his voice was legitimately the only thing I remember about Gregory in the worst case of all time. When you hear that "matta" however, you can tell the Japanese VA is uninvested because I can't say I blame him.
You said you were curious about what happens with the fishing rod and Missile the dog. I grabbed both when I did it, the dog will eat Larry's Samurai dogs in a crazy scene, and the fishing rod just unlocks a few lines of dialogue with Lotta.
@@GamingMagic13 obviously with the nature of the visuals of the original games, they didnt make the scene visual, but it's pretty funny seeing how upset larry becomes afterward
42:50 This is solved by having the events of the Layton crossover happen during that month, because Phoenix and Maya were overseas they didn't hear about the case until they got back.
I loved your commentary on Case 3-2. It may be easy, but holy shit, Luke Atmey was an amazing written villain. Like, holy crap, the complexity of the black mailing, and the fact that Luke Atmey makes a big brain play play by using the thievery as an alibi for the murder, genius ass plan right there. I fkn loved it.
Yeah, I bloody love Apollo Justice. It's a mess, but I still love it. Phoenix seems to be most people's biggest problem with the game, but here's the thing for me: strip away the name Phoenix Wright, and he's actually a GREAT character. Top 20 in the series in my opinion, for sure. Yeah, him being Phoenix sucks, but I can still look past it. Kristoph is actually a pretty damn good Big Bad in my opinion, even if his motive is terrible. I also really liked Apollo himself - he's the last sane man in a world of idiots, and because of that you can't help but root for him. I've never understood the idea that Ema suffered character assassination in this game - I think it makes sense that she would be the way she is given that she got older, failed the exam and found out that Phoenix was disbarred. Trucy is a really great assistant in my opinion, and I also liked Perceiving. Klavier I thought was great, too - it's nice to see a prosecutor who isn't completely stuck-up and annoying from the off, and who is actually on the side of justice for once. I actually enjoyed Turnabout Corner - it's really stupid and highly flawed but I still found it fun, you know? Turnabout Trump I really like thanks to the numerous plot twists and cool setting. Turnabout Serenade is... pretty bad, admittedly, but I do still really like the final showdown between Apollo and Daryan. Turnabout Succession, messy as it is, I really love - I actually found the MASON system to be pretty well-designed and fun to mess around with. I also really liked Spark Brushel - not sure why. There are plotholes, obviously, but I didn't really mind that much because I was pretty invested in the game by this point and so I was willing to overlook them. Hopefully this really long ramble has shown that I definitely acknowledge the game's issues, but that I still really like it.
And you are absolutely allowed to love bad games; I've never wanted or tried to tell anybody they weren't. So long as you acknowledge the game's issues, you are absolutely allowed to enjoy games that are horrible.
I was trying to figure out why I like Apollo (the character, not the game) in AJ, and seeing him described as the last sane man in a world full of idiots sums it up pretty well. I like sarcastic and dry main protags when they're surrounded by wacky characters coz I really feel myself relating to them 😅 So I really like Apollo. Hate his game! But he was the anchor pulling me through that shitshow because I wanted to keep seeing his reactions to every stupid thing in it Aside from the prosecutor. Easily my least favourite in the series. His guitar schtick got old REAL quick
I feel the biggest problem with Beanix/AA4 Phoenix is that IMHO Herlock Sholmes did the "trickster mentor" thing far better than Beanix/AA4 Phoenix Wright. To elaborate, the one big problem with Beanix/AA4's Phoenix that I didn't realise until spending time with Herlock Sholmes in TGAA is that AA4 tried wat too hard to make Beanix too much of a cool and mysterious puppetmaster that he feels much more like an untouchable Übermensch and just doesn't feel human at all as a result, unlike Herlock Sholmes who felt very human despite his antics. The lack of humanity given to Beanix throughout the entirety of AA4 is what completely tanked him for me.
@@GamingMagic13 I just finished it, I mean, I knew Bridge for a Turnabout was gonna be good, but holy nuggets it was so much better than I could ever imagine. Nice video btw, I basically agree with all of your placements.
@@VB3Pac True, but the least they could do is acknowledge the fact of absurdity, like having Apollo state that the entire premise of the case is completely insane. But they don't do that, they pretend the whole indictment is perfectly legitimate.
It's not even satisfying at all to take down Kristoph Gavin again when he's already been put away. I'd even take an I2-3/3-3 where they get a wrong verdict (preferably on Olga) for the sake of keeping him around. Since Phoenix is at his worst in this game, let Apollo build a relationship with Kristoph, and have him have to face him for his crimes only by the end of it all to then also redeem Phoenix.
@@jamestrainor4293 depends what you look for in a case, if you want the true killer to be a huge surprise yes they definitely are low on the list but if you want a fun time with a cast of unique characters and interesting turn of events they're really good. I guess it's much more subjective than the other games since if you dislike the characters there's no way you'll be able to enjoy it but I'll still defend it, the frustration that comes with having to prove evident things is only there to demonstrate why the system needs reforms and when you finally do get Kristoph after a whole game of struggling to find evidence you feel rewarded for the perseverance
43:00 I remember reading that fans were able to figure out where the Professor Layton crossover would take place in the Ace Attorney timeline, and they concluded that it is before the events of Phoenix's investigation into Recipe for Turnabout. This gives Phoenix and Maya a reasonable argument as to why they did not hear about the original trial, not only were they out of the country, but they were in a place that did not have easy access to modern day technology. I think the game is non-canon though but it's still an interesting tidbit.
Another bad thing about the lost turnabout: Im pretty sure the time gap between when Wellington killed that guy and when he reported the body was 15 minutes, but why would he need 15 minutes to prepare even though all he did was write Maggey's name and delete the con artist's numbers, did he spend 15 minutes wondering how to write Maggey's name?
I’ve not finished Sprit of Justice yet (i’m on the third case) but i’m really liking the game and your list. DGS 1 and 2 and investigations 2 have some of the greatest cases in the whole franchise! and i totally agree with your number one
Yup; just like I did with Investigations 2, I'll announce my rankings for The Great Ace Attorney & The Great Ace Attorney 2 at the end of each respective game.
a great summary of the strengths and weaknesses of each case (the ones i'm familiar with, at least)! that being said, i'm surprised you only mentioned the first time phoenix showed damning evidence to the killer in the second episode with redd white when he also did the same with dee vasquez and manfred von karma, which was infinitely more frustrating because he should have learned his lesson by then. as for turnabout big top, i was really unhappy with how the game doesn't seem to have an issue with 16yo regina being proposed to by a 21yo max and 31yo trilo. that's what ruined dahlia for me too - she was written as a 14yo seductress when fawles at 20yo was definitely in the wrong for entering a relationship with her. this icky treatment of the young female characters is also present in recipe for turnabout with how phoenix tried to use an oblivious maya to get information out of the maid fetishist... that and the queercoding of armstrong really grossed me out. my other issues with that episode were how maggey somehow didn't know tigre wasn't phoenix despite him having defended her before, when it would have made much more sense to use a new character who knew phoenix's reputation but hadn't met him in person yet, especially after ema had already mistaken phoenix for mia. for me, having maggey as the defendant felt like a cheap excuse for a callback. furthermore, how come tigre got caught threatening pheonix by gumshoe but we didn't see the repercussions of that? overall, not a fan of that chapter. i *was* really into bridge to the turnabout, though. i didn't like the earthquake plot convenience given how ham-handed its foreshadowing was, but the switch that occurred during it blew my mind. i did catch onto the dahlia-is-possessing-maya plot twist sooner than the game wanted me to, but instead of being annoyed i was so relieved she was okay. as for godot being the killer... oof. as soon as maya said she saw three red lights, i knew it was him, and it was tragic watching phoenix start unravelling that mystery despite maya's attempt to cover for him. my only complaint with that episode off the top of my head was how everyone seemed to forget that pearl was also on that side of the bridge and could have been the one to clean up the snow, which was kind of distracting since someone brought up she was there but then didn't go anywhere with that observation. overall though, a brilliant way to end that game, despite my other gripes with it.
Magical Turnabout is practically the second coming of Turnabout Serenade, I wonder why the sudden change of heart? Machi not being physically built to fire the gun is loonot even that big of a deal because most of the case is spent trying to prove Daryan as the culprit. Plus I wouldn't put it past a clearly corrupt legal system to suspect Machi of murder. 4-3 isn't even that great of a case imo, but your tone shift between these two cases is jarring even though they are very similar in concept. The Foreign Turnabout seeming simple at first and unraveling to be more complex? You literally just described Turnabout Trump right there. Like who would've guessed that YOUR OWN MENTOR would be the culprit of the case? I don't quite know how you can bash Kristoph Gavin for being cartoony when we have villains like Manfred Von Karma and Dahlia Hawthorne. Manfred is just a typical asshole who obsesses over his record, and Dahlia isn't very different from Kristoph if at all. The only difference I really see between them is that they hide behind different faces to cover up how evil they are. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate Manfred for what he offers to AA1, but let's not kid ourselves by singling out Kristoph as a cartoony villain. "Character assassination" is a bit of a stretch. Ema wasn't assigned to forensics like she wanted to be and felt miserable being a normal detective. She was essentially condemned to the same life as Gumshoe, and Gumshoe had it rough. Hobo Phoenix is definitely different from the Phoenix we're used to, but you were definitely grasping at straws to hate on AJ Phoenix in general. "Nothing beats experience" is totally a line he would use. He's known for putting on a confident face, especially when he's bluffing, so he wouldn't waste any opportunities to boast about his experience against a rookie prosecutor after they made a mistake. So in other words, the Phoenix we see in the flashback portion of Turnabout Succession is a 100% faithful representation of the Phoenix we knew from the trilogy. Also, I don't know how a game can kill Phoenix's character development when he didn't really have much character development to begin with. Between AA1 and AA3, there aren't many noticeable differences in his character aside from being more competent at his job. I will admit, Phoenix running a jurist system was far-fetched, but he still had connections in the legal world who wouldn't have any problems granting favors for him. In a series brimming with all sorts of far-fetched things, that shouldn't be where you draw the line. If the Apollo Justice hatred in the video is meant to be a joke, then it's a poorly executed joke, and I'm not sorry for writing this comment. Otherwise, to put it mildly, your hatred towards this game is largely unjustified. I can understand disliking the game because the middle cases are pretty flawed, but labeling what's easily the most thrilling tutorial case in the entire series as "awful" points to blind hatred.
Let's take this one step at a time, in two parts since this comment was too long for CZcams. PART ONE: -------------------------------------------- "Magical Turnabout is practically the second coming of Turnabout Serenade, I wonder why the sudden change of heart?" A change of heart would imply that I went from loving a case to hating it. That is not the case; I adored The Magical Turnabout from the moment I first played it, and hated Turnabout Serenade with a fiery passion from the moment I first played. -------------------------------------------- "Machi not being physically built to fire the gun is loonot even that big of a deal because most of the case is spent trying to prove Daryan as the culprit" You do realize that the assumption Machi would even be capable of firing the gun is the entire basis of the prosecution's case? The fact that _anybody_ would entertain the idea that Machi Tobaye - a fourteen-year-old kid whom they presume to be blind would've been able to fire a .45 caliber revolver without sending his shoulder flying into a different dimension. If anybody had used their brains for even a second, they would've realized that this was literally impossible. And if they realized that it was literally impossible, then they never would've arrested Machi, and thus this case would've never happened in the first place. So yes, it is absolutely a big deal. -------------------------------------------- "Plus I wouldn't put it past a clearly corrupt legal system to suspect Machi of murder." A corrupt legal system would need an ulterior motive to accusing Machi, but that is never established. Anybody with a brain should've immediately realized that it could not possibly have been him - especially when _Ema Skye_ is on the case, someone who should've known to check the damn weapon for _fingerprints_ in the first place. -------------------------------------------- "4-3 isn't even that great of a case imo, but your tone shift between these two cases is jarring even though they are very similar in concept." You do realize that two stories can have the same concept with radically different executions, right? Farewell, My Turnabout and Turnabout Revolution both feature Maya's kidnapping as central elements, but one handles that concept _far_ better than the other one. -------------------------------------------- "The Foreign Turnabout seeming simple at first and unraveling to be more complex? You literally just described Turnabout Trump right there." That's a nice job at omitting the main reason I said this case was great, that being the fact that it manages to introduce: -An entirely new setting -An entirely new legal system -The Divination Seance -A defendant who starts out as just some random tour guide whom you connect with before he's even accused of murder all in incremental stages so you never feel overwhelmed by the worldbuilding and doesn't resort to lengthy exposition dumps. -------------------------------------------- " Like who would've guessed that YOUR OWN MENTOR would be the culprit of the case?" Um...me. The second I found out that Phoenix deliberately chose a rookie over the supposed "best defense attorney in town" I predicted that he would be the true culprit. -------------------------------------------- "I don't quite know how you can bash Kristoph Gavin for being cartoony " It's quite simple, really: his motive is so unbelievably petty it's - almost - laughable. His motive literally amounts to "I didn't get picked to defend Zak, so now I must destroy Phoenix's life, destroy Zak's life - and eventually take it away - poison Drew Misham and nearly do the same to Vera." Having the plot progress simply because a character is evil for the sake of being evil is terrible writing. Even if we were to accept him trying to frame Phoenix as a justifiable response for not being picked, the rest of his actions are way too extreme for the situation - not to mention the fact that his motivations are wildly inconsistent, since he has absolutely no problem with Phoenix specifically requesting Apollo to be his defense attorney instead of Kristoph. And that's on top of the fact that the way in which he carried out his petty revenge plot was moronic. Klavier had every reason in the world to question Kristoph as to how he knew that Phoenix had faulty evidence ready to present, and he only succeeded in doing this because Klavier luckily bought his story immediately - which is interesting since we later find out that Klavier always suspected Kristoph, yet he never did anything about it. Even aside from that, ruining Zak's life was a byproduct of getting Phoenix disbarred. He had absolutely no way of knowing that Zak was planning on fleeing the courtroom, so he couldn't control that. He only took action against him seven years after Phoenix was disbarred, long after Zak's life had already been permanently altered. He's evil just for the sake of being evil, which does not make for a very compelling villain. -------------------------------------------- "Manfred is just a typical asshole who obsesses over his record" No, he's the man responsible for Edgeworth's fifteen years of torment, and a prosecutor who had yet to be defeated for four full decades. -------------------------------------------- "Dahlia isn't very different from Kristoph if at all. " Yikes... She permeates every case in the game, even ones in which she isn't directly involved with, and stands confidently as an ingenious villain for three of the games five case who strikes an incredibly personal chord with the main cast of heroes. Kristoph lost a card game and threw a tantrum over it. -------------------------------------------- "Ema wasn't assigned to forensics like she wanted to be and felt miserable being a normal detective. She was essentially condemned to the same life as Gumshoe, and Gumshoe had it rough. " Double yikes... The idea that she would've failed the exam in the first place is absolutely ridiculous considering her vast knowledge of techniques even before she went to college to actually study forensic science. But fine; let's entertain the idea that it makes sense for her to have failed - everyone makes mistakes, right? - why would she have given up and resorted to her current job? She never gave up on her sister when the odds were stacked against her, so why would she just say "well, guess that dream's dead" after failing the test a single time? But even if you think she would've given up, the fact that she acts the way she does is such a blatant contradiction of her personality from Rise from the Ashes that it's almost comical - almost. No matter how grim the situation was she always did her best to remain optimistic and positive, yet now she's transformed into Oscar the Grouch. This is what we call "character assassination." -------------------------------------------- ""Nothing beats experience" is totally a line he would use. He's known for putting on a confident face, especially when he's bluffing, so he wouldn't waste any opportunities to boast about his experience against a rookie prosecutor after they made a mistake" Triple yikes... Throughout the original trilogy, Phoenix faced off against prosecutors with years' more experience than him - including Manfred von Karma, who hadn't lost in forty years. He proved that just because you have a lot of experience, that doesn't necessarily mean you will win by default. To see him act like he does in the 7 Years Ago flashback despite all this is jarring, to say the least. And if your defense is "Well, he doesn't _actually_ mean those things: he's just trying to bluff with confidence!" then that falls flat on its face because the two most jarring lines: "You're out of your league, rock-boy." and "I suppose there's no substitute for experience." are both things he thinks to himself _in his head_ and he never says them out loud. There is no attempt to bluff or put on a show of confidence, these are things he genuinely believes. This is, again, what we call "character assassination" and it's not even half the reason why Phoenix was destroyed in this game. --------------------------------------------
PART TWO: -------------------------------------------- "Also, I don't know how a game can kill Phoenix's character development when he didn't really have much character development to begin with. Between AA1 and AA3, there aren't many noticeable differences in his character aside from being more competent at his job." First of all, learning to stand confidently on your own _is_ character development, and it's very interesting to see how you've attempted to diminish that. Second, the issue is the contradiction of _character_ not character development. His values and beliefs have been compromised for the sake of telling this terrible story, and that is indefensible. -------------------------------------------- "he still had connections in the legal world who wouldn't have any problems granting favors for him." And yet he can't use any of those connections - none of which are established in the game, by the way - to fight for his attorney's badge back. -------------------------------------------- "If the Apollo Justice hatred in the video is meant to be a joke, then it's a poorly executed joke" Nice strawman. I've never joked about this game being awful. The only thing that was meant to be a joke was me creating two new tiers for Turnabout Corner, Turnabout Serenade, and Turnabout Succession. But my criticisms are not jokes. The reasons for this game being atrocious are not jokes. -------------------------------------------- "Otherwise, to put it mildly, your hatred towards this game is largely unjustified." I've explicitly broken down the problems with the plot and characters, and we haven't even scratched the surface in this comment chain. There are still tons more plot holes, character problems, and awful gameplay additions I could go over if you really wanted me to. I don't know how you can honestly call my position unjustified. -------------------------------------------- “labeling what's easily the most thrilling tutorial case in the entire series as "awful" points to blind hatred.” I don’t know what to tell you at this point. I explicitly stated in this video that if it weren’t for the fact that this case introduces a destroyed Phoenix Wright, it would probably end up in the “Mediocre” tier since the mystery itself is slightly below average. I don’t know how you can miss this unless you’re lying by omission. I have praised this game several times before. I’ve specifically cited: -The improved fingerprint dusting as a result of the touchscreen -The 3D camera angles and movements when you envision the crime scene -The clever stamp twist during the first set of Turnabout Succession trials -Phoenix's interactions with Trucy during the MASON System investigation as positive elements of this game. If I were blindly hating it, I wouldn’t bother to highlight _any_ positives. I’ve broken down all the reasons why this game is awful many, _many_ times, and none of it stems from “blind hatred.” Also, at the end of every case, I always said "Surely the next one can't be worse." I gave this game every chance in the world. I have never, once, ever played a game hoping it would be bad. That doesn't benefit me in any way. Why would I want something I spent $16 on to be bad? We can discuss whether this game is good or bad, but to call my position “blind hatred” is fundamentally disingenuous. --------------------------------------------
@@GamingMagic13 I’m a year late but oh well :) I mean this in the nicest possible way, but I don’t think you or the original commenter are truly correct. Apollo Justice is a good example of a game that people either love or hate. The original commenter tried to shit on you for hating it, you tried to shit on them for liking it. Take Phoenix, for example. Despite the fact that there is definitely some character assassination, it’s not completely unbelievable (I personally can definitely see him getting overconfident in court and then shrivelling to a husk of his former self when he does lose his badge). Kristoph is a perfect antagonist for a game that’s loved or hated, since some people hate him for how petty he was, and some (like myself) enjoy that psychopathic aspect about him - one thing I will point out is how you bash Kristoph for his pettiness, but Manfred von Karma killed because of a penalty (but he is still my favourite villain of the series). I will 100% concede that you have more knowledge of the game… I’ve only played through it once with a friend and watched cutscenes again on CZcams. I might be missing something crucial, but I really enjoyed the change in tone Apollo Justice took from the trilogy, and whilst the middle two cases are filler, Turnabout Corner is quite enjoyable for me, even if Turnabout Serenade can die in a hole. Oh yeah, I don’t know why but I also love the soundtrack… that though is completely subjective. TLDR: Neither of you are right, but neither of you are wrong. Apollo Justice is either a very subjective game or I’m just in a strange minority - that’s definitely possible since I liked JFA more that T&T. However, you can’t really say that the game is good or bad since a lot of what you say makes the game bad could make is good for some, and vice versa. The only two games in the series that I think are objectively good (even if they aren’t the best) are Trials and Tribulations and Dual Destinies, since they are, as far as I know, the least controversial in being ‘great’. Oh by the way the video is really good even if I disagree in some parts!
I'm still playing TGAA1, but spending time with Herlock Sholmes made me realise the biggest issue with Beanix/AJ's Phoenix Wright: AA4 tried too hard to make Beanix into this "cool" and mysterious puppetmaster to the point that he feels much more like an untouchable Übermensch and just doesn't feel human at all as a result. Compare that to Herlock Sholmes who's TGAA's resident trickster mentor, who despite his antics towards the game's cast, still felt very human especially with his interactions with Ryunosuke Naruhodo, as opposed to Beanix treating Apollo like a pawn.
It seems like I'm the only one who actually doesn't completely hate Apollo Justice. I actually really like Turnabout Trump, Turnabout Corner is ehhhh....and while the premise for the murder of Turnabout Serenade is interesting, it's executed so poorly and Machi being suspected just because there was a missed shot by the killer and the fact that it was previously established that firing a murder weapon of that caliber could destroy your shoulder is mind blowingly stupid. I haven't played Succession yet...so I'm not sure how bad it is but considering I don't have that much hate for these cases, (other than Turnabout Big Top, that one legitimately pisses me off) I don't think I'll hate it.
You need to imagine what it's like being meekins then you can hate him or feel bad for him, although I forgot what he's like so I'll go check and analyze his personality and any other characteristics
No; I rank the Investigations 2 cases in the finale of that LP, and I've been actively trying to forget about Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright for quite some time now.
Just curious why you don’t like Klavier Gavin. Is it because of his backstory? I would understand that completely, but I personally really liked the idea of a prosecutor that is more chill and less antagonistic. He was one of the only things about Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney that I actually really liked.
Because he’s a nothing character. His only defining character trait is that he’s an annoying rock star, and there’s nothing more to him than that. That would be fine if he were a one-off character for some random case, but he’s the prosecutor for the entirety of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. He needs to have a stronger character than what he has, and he simply doesn’t.
@@GamingMagic13 I get what you’re saying. I still liked him, but I guess his personality is pretty simple without a strong backstory behind him. Thanks for the reply.
3:41 I don’t know if this really counts as a logic error… but I don’t get how the game expects the player to know the location where the game takes place in to figure out the time difference between the courtroom and Paris is 9 hours.
I was referring to that, as well as the the fingerprint analysis sections and certain additions to the trials. It definitely had a lot of great new gameplay additions.
Alright uhh, since you said you wanted counter-arguments for your Apollo Justice video, I think I have one regarding Turnabout Corner. Basically, I've done some research on whether or not it is possible for a car to run with a blocked exhaust pipe and the most common answer I've been able to find is that, if the muffler is 100% blocked, then the engine definitely won't run no matter what, not even for a couple of miles. Of course, the panties stuck in the exhaust pipe wouldn't be enough to completely block it, but considering their size when compared to the small hole in the muffler, I'd say it wouldn't be crazy to believe that most cars engines wouldn't be able to run with such a clog put in place. Aside from that, I've also found out that the shoeprint database is an actual thing and it contains more than 42000 items to identify footprints from crime scenes, so, with that in mind, I think it's quite likely that Ema would make use of such a thing. As for the "what happens if someone buys a new shoe", my memory might be faulty here but, wasn't the shoe used by Alita provided by the clinic she worked in? If that's the case, she wouldn't be able to just change it.
I find it extremely interesting that you chose to comment about the muffler on the video when I never even mention the muffler; I did that research myself and also came to that same conclusion. Sadly, that’s not enough to save the case. As for the shoe print database, it doesn’t work in real life the way it works in game. A “shoe print database” in the real world is a database containing shoeprints from the actual products themselves, rather than a database linking the individual shoe prints to different people because obviously that doesn’t make any sense at all. And the “what happens if someone buys a new shoe” criticism is of the idea of the database itself because whatever shoe print is on file can be immediately nullified by simply purchasing a new pair of shoes, thus rendering the entire system pointless. But thank you for providing me with more reasoning for why this game sucks so badly; it is very helpful.
@@GamingMagic13 Oh alright, yea I heard you criticize the muffler thing in another video and I thought you simply forgot to mention it here. That's all. As for the shoeprint database, thanks for clearing up your point. Honestly the more I look into Turnabout Corner the faultier the case starts to appear.
idk if u still have the same opinions as u did like 3 years ago but i dont get the turnabout succesion hate! mason system was honestly pretty easy to navigate imo, you just have to know what your looking for which imo was pretty obvious! i can get like. not understanding it but i dont think its worse than a case like 2-1. and i dont get why everybody hates phoenix not being a lawyer anymore. like its not that bad i was sad when i first saw it but phoenix is SUCH a good character in apollo justice, you just have to get rid of pre game biases that "hes not the phoenix I KNOW 🥺🥺" it was honestly a fun way to shake up his character and was pretty well executed. apollo justice also has my favorite graphics of any aa game too, but thats just my opinion. while i agree with the stupid ass turnabout serenade "machi couldve fired the gun" i feel like once you get past that the case becomes soooo much better. like its so much better to play games without thinking "wow, this is so stupid bc X thing happened" like they have accepted it! so theres no use getting mad about it anymore even if it IS stupid. i personally like 4-2 and think outside of the panty shit its fun. tldr apollo justice is overhated bc people just cant accept that phoenix got disbarred for one game and became a good father and once you get over simple discrepancies the game is actually very fun !
In Pro-ZD's voice: Wait a minute.. I like Apollo Justice... You do know that there are pEopLE out there who LIKE this game, right? We *exist* and we will not stand for this sLaNDer- But seriously though it's funny how divided the fandom is over this game, depending on what you look for in an AA case it's either the absolute best or an infuriating waste of time, there seems to be no in-between x)
I definitely won’t be remaking this entire video just to add five cases, but I will show where they would rank among the others in the finale on Sunday
I have not; I know some of the games are on mobile, so I may check them out one day. However, to my knowledge not all of the games are available on mobile; only a select few.
Turnabout sisters is good. But seeing red white sitting in the chair in the anime is hilarious. They didn’t do his arms well and made his legs disproportionate to his body and it looks like a meat canyon character
You tend to talk about a prosecutor in the case they get introduced in however you said nothing about klavier when talking about turnabout corner or any case in apollo justice despite him being the prosecutor for the game (but then again what is there to be said about him anyway)
Eyad Amr You answered your own question. He’s a nothing character and his inclusion does nothing to affect the quality of Apollo Justice in any significant way, and therefore there was no reason to acknowledge his existence
@@GamingMagic13 Fair enough but one small thing if his existence in apollo justice wasn't significant in any way then why did you bother considering him a major issue in turnabout academy not that it matters a lot but I'm curious to know
You know, it's kinda sad that the Japan-only releases are so good... People have put AAI2 as the best game in the series because that game is phenomenal (it's basically Edgeworth's T&T), and the DGS series is pretty up there too. Then again, I like Turnabout Big Top and the entirety of Apollo Justice, so maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt XD Still, I am certain you would've loved those games and seeing your opinion of T&T, I'm actually sad I won't get to hear how you feel about AAI2. It's my favorite game in the entire series and I only hope Capcom will release a port of it and actually release an official translation for it. If that ever happens (and _GOD_ I hope it does), it may even have something in there that tops 3-5 for you. ;)
I'm not gonna say much in specific, but yeah, that game freaking DESERVES the praise it gets. I could literally go for hours on end about how good it is. And honestly, with a high-quality release of the original trilogy having recently come out, I honestly don't think a port of the Investigations games is out of the question.
I didn't want Paul to be guilty in the civil trial. I wanted him to be a red herring villain. As long as AA doesn't go for easy tropes or bad logic it can make great cases. There's usually at least 1 good and bad case no matter the game.
1. Edgeworth, obviously 2. Godot 3. Franziska 4. Blackquill 5. Klavier Gavin 6. Nahyuta For as much as I hate Klavier, Nahyuta is a much worse character.
@@GamingMagic13 Yeah... Klavier at least isn't a complete jerk... just annoying. (Well, there is also Agent Lang.. and even thought he isnt a prosecutor, still he fills the role of rival on Ace Attorney Investigations)
Here's my thoughts, countering a few of your negative points: Case 1-2, Phoenix is a rookie. He makes rookie mistakes by showing his hand. Also, when you discover that your mentor is dead and her own sister is suspected checking the back of a piece of paper that is used to indict the supposed murderer is last thing you'd be doing (that being said, it *would* have been more awesome to have figured it out yourself, but I guess they had to introduce Maya's spirit channelling somehow). For Case 2-2, you might know that information, but the judge definitely doesn't. I'm pretty sure attorney's testimony is not admissible in court (then again, I'm pretty sure attorneys are not allowed to simultaneously be witnesses either). For Case 2-3, I definitely don't like this case either, BUT, I think the anime did a fantastic job with this case and somehow made this one of the better cases in the anime. As for what I liked, I really liked the pun Phoenix makes in this case and I really liked Acro, I think he makes for a really empathizable villain that you just can't help but feel sorry for. I also really disagree with your statement regarding Regina. Regina is a very sheltered and innocent who didn't understand death. That was to the point where she didn't even realize she had nearly killed Bat. She also clearly did not think the pepper-filled scarf would cause the lion to munch down on Bat because the lion is trained not to eat humans (which is a mistake most people could easily have done when you're not thinking about those two specific things). Finally, it'd be worth using suspension of disbelief every now and again. Sometimes, it's just worth enjoying a story for what it is. For Case Investigations-5, the one guy who refused to die. This was a battle of the wills and it felt good to end him. That said, I can totally get you, man. That was a very difficult portion of the game and it drags on. For Case 4-1, I thought the character you played as in the last game having been destroyed was a really cool idea. Not only that, but Phoenix himself is actually really cool. He sounds so smart (That said, when we do learn what destroyed Phoenix, that wasn't exactly the best payoff). Regarding Case 5-3, people disliked that case!? I that one was awesome! An interesting villain, great witnesses, great premise, nice location, I don't see what there is to not like. If I may say something for 5-5, that Mood Matrix against the Phantom was super creative. Faking emotions, forcing you to find the one, real, consistent, emotion? Pure. Genius. For Case 6-5 part 1, the reason Apollo against Phoenix was made a slightly big deal was because they were from the same agency and therefore personally knew each other (even worse, one of them is the boss of the other) which is cause for concern because it could affect one side's ability to conduct a fair trial. For Case 6-5 part 2, what a fantastic finale to a really fun series! Each character suddenly gained a whole lot of development and somehow the writers pulled it off without feeling rushed (Even Nahyuta, who I hated up to this point, but found myself liking by the end). It's just too bad that it seems like we won't get another Ace Attorney for a good while. (By the way, these two cases seriously should have been separate. Well, not that it really matters that much) Speaking of things that are too bad, Miles Edgeworth 2 and The Great Ace Attorney are phenomenal that should have both been brought over to the US (Especially the Great Ace Attorney which is easily the best game in the series). Maybe someday Capcom will finally release both those games for us American audiences. I also hope they someday rerelease Phoenix Wright vs. Professor Layton, because that game was also fantastic.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout Sisters: Regardless of what the piece of paper is, I'm going to check to see if there's something written on the back as well - especially since: A. This could prove to be a key piece of evidence, so having all the information is essential. B. If it was a receipt, it would also _feel_ like a receipt - as in, it would have the texture of cash register printer paper - which would make me think "hey, is this a receipt for something?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reunion, and Turnabout: I have no idea what you're referring to here. What information do you think I know that the judge wouldn't? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout Big Top: I haven't watched the anime, but regardless of whether it is portrayed well there it doesn't change the fact that the case is absolutely horrendous in the game. As for your individual points: 1. I'm not sure what pun you're referring to, but yes; generally speaking Ace Attorney puns are very clever 2. Yes, Acro is an empathetic villain. 3. She covered Bat's scarf in pepper because she knew that it would make him sneeze. If she knew that, then she would also know that getting that pepper anywhere near the lion while Bat's head was _inside the lion_ would be a monumentally terrible idea. Thus, if she saw Bat doing so, she should've stopped it immediately. 4. In regards to suspension of disbelief, within this context you're essentially just saying "turn your brain off and enjoy the show; don't think about how it's all completely broken." That's not how this works. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout Ablaze: Oh no, it wasn't difficult at all; I cracked every contradiction first try. The problem is that it _never_ ended. When he finally broke down, my reaction "OH MY GOD IT'S FINALLY OVER!" as opposed to "YES! We got 'em! Take that!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout Trump: Well, at least you conceded that Phoenix's character was destroyed. That makes this much easier. Because taking a character who has previously established to be one way, and then completely and utterly eviscerate everything about his character that made him endearing and interesting - and to do it _off screen_ with no reasonable justification, that is horrendously indefensible writing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout Academy: I have been told previously that this case can be very polarizing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout for Tomorrow: Until you realize that if he had been faking his emotions the entire time - which he should've been doing the instant he realized that Athena had a _Mood Matrix_ - he likely wouldn't have been caught. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turnabout Revolution: You do realize that it's not unheard of for two attorneys from the same firm to be facing off against each other in court, right? Furthermore, you do realize that Phoenix & Edgeworth have worked together to find the truth countless times and have had absolutely zero issues doing so despite personally knowing each other, right? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Uh...you do realize that game _has_ been released in the US, right?
So many of your criticisms for AA4 are so insanely flawed, like it just sound like you literally don’t know what character development is??? Like I don’t know why you expect every character to act exactly like they did 7 years ago, it just makes literally no sense, and 4-1 is such an amazing 1st case like,,,have you seen the other first cases??? You’re telling me that 2-1 and 1-1 are better than 4-1??? Really?? I legitimately don’t think we played the same game
Nice strawman. I never said characters aren't allowed to change or develop. For instance, the Miles Edgeworth at the end of Trials & Tribulations is a much different person than the Miles Edgeworth at the the beginning of the first game and his character arc is masterfully written. The difference is that the road of development he underwent throughout the trilogy made logical sense and had a competent through-line. The way in which Phoenix & Ema are portrayed in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is a blatant contradiction of how they acted in the original trilogy with absolutely no justification, and that is absolutely indefensible.
@@GamingMagic13 you act as if a character acting differently than they did 7 years ago is an inherit flaw, when it’s literally just another form of character development. Like Phoenix literally lost his job because of a trial, why do you expect him to act exactly as he did when he was a lawyer?
@@troocywright6830 And we keep going with the strawmen. I specifically addressed the difference between character development and character assassination, and yet you completely ignore it. If you're going to attempt to defend this terrible game, then at least stop being disingenuous about it. You say "Phoenix literally lost his job because of a trial, why do you expect him to act exactly as he did when he was a lawyer?" when that is not something I have ever claimed. Cut it out with this disingenuous argumentation; it's getting incredibly frustrating. It seems as if you think that him being disbarred would suddenly cause him to lose any reasoning and common sense he had which doesn't make any sense at all. Him choosing not to challenge his disbarment is utterly ridiculous. Even if you don't think he would've directly gone to the bar association to challenge them, you know that Phoenix is friends with Edgeworth, right? The man who has previously demonstrated to be able to pull a lot of strings behind the scenes - such as managing to arrange the first Bridge to the Turnabout Trial so that Franziska was the prosecutor and the judge was someone who wouldn't recognize him - and has previously stood as a defense attorney for Phoenix? He took so many extra steps in this game to execute his plan that simply weren't required considering the resources he had available to him.
@@GamingMagic13 no the fact that you look at character development that is more complicated than just “I’m all sad and lonely but now I have my friends” and call it “character assassination” is utterly frustrating. There are so many amazing things about AA4 and you stick to the point of “oh well his plan was really complicated and I think it could be better” and use that to call AA4 a garbage game is so childish. Maybe he did challenge them....maybe he realized it was too much effort considering he’s taking care of his daughter now.....there’s so much potential that AA4 brings and you literally ignore all of it just to focus on your garbage points. It’s so exhausting. I love AA3 but I could go on a tangent about how Godot should’ve warned Phoenix about Dahlia, or how Godot treated Mia as an object to protect rather than a human being, or how the character we were supposed to sympathize with in 3-4 was a pedophile, but I still think it’s a great game because I don’t seek out minor flaws and treat them as if the entire game is flawed
@@troocywright6830 -------------------------------- "I’m all sad and lonely but now I have my friends” and call it “character assassination” is utterly frustrating." Cut it out. I'm not kidding. The degree to which you are misrepresenting my position in a desperate attempt to defend this awful game is so utterly dishonest it's disgusting. I have never once said anything even remotely resembling that in regards to what character assassination. -------------------------------- "There are so many amazing things about AA4 and you stick to the point of “oh well his plan was really complicated and I think it could be better” and use that to call AA4 a garbage game is so childish." You are either an extremely dedicated troll, or the most deceitfully oblivious person on the planet. If you paid any attention to the goddamn video, you'd know that my reasons for hating this game extend far beyond that. There's: -Phoenix & Ema's character assassination -Every other character being either offensively boring or just offensive -The endless number of plot holes and logical inconsistencies -The stupid Perceive gimmick and its frustratingly limited FOV/inability to proceed through statements like a normal testimony If it helps you understand that I'm being fair about this, I'll even list the things about this game that are actually good: -The improved fingerprint dusting as a result of the touchscreen -The 3D camera angles and movements when you envision the crime scene -The clever stamp twist during the first set of Turnabout Succession trials -Phoenix's interactions with Trucy during the MASON System investigation My reasoning for why this game is objectively terrible and an indefensible creation is built on a lot more than just "his plan was overly complicated" but it sure does make my position easier to attack if you claim that's all there is to it. The simple fact of the matter is that none of the plot holes are ever explained by the game, and Phoenix and Ema's portrayals are so blatantly contradictive to everything they stood for in the original trilogy that even a child could recognize it. I'm done with this conversation. I have spent so much goddamn time talking about this terrible game. If you want to understand why this game is so fundamentally broken, feel free to browse the rest of this comments section for other people trying to defend the game - because you're certainly not the first. But given how disgustingly disingenuous you have been in mis-representing my position on this game, I have absolutely no reason to engage in this discussion any further.
Me and my brother really like the ace attorney series I think it’s awesome and do you think if they ever make a English localization of miles Edgeworth 2 or the great ace attorney would you play it or not, if you were to play it would you make an LP or play it by yourself I’m just wondering in case you ever play those games as a English localization
As I've said numerous times in the past, if CAPCOM ever localizes Investigations 2 or The Great Ace Attorney games, I will absolutely cover them here on the channel.
Because he’s a nothing character. His only defining character trait is that he’s an annoying rock star, and there’s nothing more to him than that. That would be fine if he were a one-off character for some random case, but he’s *the* prosecutor for the entirety of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. He needs to have a stronger character than what he has, and he simply doesn’t.
@@GamingMagic13 He has a strong character. I don’t know what you mean? He has a good backstory and defining personality traits? You could say the same thing about Francisca.
@@desmondcoppin591 Really? You want to compare Klavier to Franziska? Alright then, here we go: Franziska may have opened by saying she only came to prosecute the "Reunion, and Turnabout" trial for revenge against Phoenix, but it is revealed by the end of Justice for All that the real reason she wanted to beat him was because he was the one defense attorney whom Edgeworth could not defeat. Her story in both the second and third games was much more focused on her relationship with Edgeworth than with Phoenix. After a lifetime of competing against him - as we saw in Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth - she thought this was going to be her chance to finally beat him at something, even though her father was no longer around for her to win his approval. The final airport scene in Justice for All was heartbreaking because we saw her true motivations and her desire to be perfect just like her father was, despite not believing she could ever be good enough to live up to his name. She also proved to be much more cunning than Edgeworth, even going so far as to present an illegal photo in Reunion, and Turnabout and track Gumshoe's position so she could keep tabs on the defense. In the final case of the game, she races to the courtroom to deliver the evidence that would ultimately seal EnGarde's guilty verdict solely because she believed in that above all else. This is absolutely a similarity between herself and Edgeworth, but the difference is that while Edgeworth ultimately came to the decision of pursuing the truth by himself, Franziska's motivation to change her ways came about because she couldn't bear the thought of losing her brother - as he said at the airport "If you say you are going to quit your walk down the prosecutor's path...then, this is where we part ways." Her arc centered around her relationship with Edgeworth and her doubt in her abilities to live up to the von Karma name. Klavier is a rockstar who was too scared to confront his brother for seven years. That's literally all there is to it. Oh, by the way, even if Franziska was a terribly written character - which she most definitely isn't - that would not suddenly make Klavier a good character. That belief is called "whataboutism" and it is a logical fallacy of the highest caliber.
I agree with everything you said about Apollo Justice, but I do enjoy Turnabout Trump, I hate what happened to Phoenix, but that aside I think it’s a very strong case, especially the twist with it being Kristoph, as it being something that first cases never do
Yeah I agree with what he said about apollo justice but I disagree about turnabout Trump not being good I think it’s a good case but the plot twist that kristoph is the killer should have been in the final case also don’t spoil anything I’m at the second case
Based list, but seeing Apollo Justice being thrashed upon that much doesn't give me good vibes, I only played the OG trilogy and want to continue. My OG ranking would be: 14. 2-1 13. 2-3 12. 1-1 10. 1-2 9. 3-3 8. 3-1 7. 1-3 6. 2-2 5. 1-4 4. 3-4 3. 2-4 2. 1-5 1. 3-5
my fav cases are the Bous cases, the Fey family cases and the last case of each game. and if you used the dog he eats all of Larry's hot dogs if you use the fishing poll you fish up some pointless junk, I think it sets off Lotta's camera. but I forget since I used the dog. He barks at Larry and its funny. Besides Missal is iconic. I'll tell you how I rank each case in your main lets plays but I to have to agree Apollo Justice 1 was my least fave game. Trials and Tribulations I did not like as much as you did. More details when I get to the lets plays. I enjoy the new Apollo games.
I pretty much vaguely agreed with everything (other than the expected loose disagreement here and there, I think Big Top is OK, mildly dislike Rise from the Ashes, I think a bit more highly of AAI than you, and a bit lower of JFA, that type of stuff) until the Apollo Justice stuff which... Jeez. That's a LOT of vitriol for that game - I'm not the biggest fan of it, probably the worst AA game in my opinion, but I still like it overall. I'm clearly missing you giving your more detailed thoughts and a lot of context, but it's really surprising seeing how polarizing that game is. This isn't a "you're wrong, you have to like all the things I like!" comment, I just really did not expect that level of passionate hatred - was really taken off guard by it. Very fun watch nonetheless.
Yeah, I think he disconnect with Apollo Justice is that the game is trying to be different, and sometimes it just doesn't work. The main thing is "unlikeability", which is missing the point to call it a flaw. I like that the defendants and victims are sometimes just bad people, since it feels more realistic rather than every defendant being super good and harmless. I do think the game goes too far on that idea sometimes though.
Just wanna say about the... Uh spoilers for Dual Destinies I guess So, you said "The Phantom didn't have any emotions but why did he have a fully emotional brakdown?" Well, the thing is he had emotions he just learned to hide them, but doing this for that long of a time only made him more fragile as the emotions he hid started to build up, the only thing that countered that would be the phony characters he put up but that obviously wasnt enough. I don't like how they didn't explain his backstory more, but he probably had something happen that made him put up a façade and hide his emotions. Anyways, back to my point. These emotions that built up within him stated to flow out as his fragile shell broke, phoenix started to break it. At the very end he was demolished and all of the emotions he hid started overflowing an his world crumbled. That makes him a more dynamic and actually beatable character, and I like the Phantom for that reason.
It is expressly stated multiple times that the Phantom's entire character revolves around him having an extremely limited emotional range. There's an entire piece of evidence dedicated to that fact in the Court Record. And yet, the Phantom's final breakdown is running off pure emotions and fear when he isn't supposed to feel any. This is entirely contradictory to who the Phantom is supposed to be. If you want specific evidence of this, I'll happily provide it: shortly before Apollo shows up in the final trial, Blackquill says ""A spy who experiences no emotions -- not sadness, nor anger... and naturally, no fear. He is the very definition of a phantom: a monster with no heart."
@@GamingMagic13 That is not completely true, the voice analysis may not show any results, but that is not because he literally doesn't have any emotions, it's because he surpresses them from every single aspect of his life. Even us in our lives surpress emotions to do things, we surpress out fear before an exam to have less stress, or surpress our hapiness when attending a funeral. This is what the phantom does, just on an unbelievable scale but like I said, it also has a counterbalance, the emotions are building up inside him. The evidence of this is the mood matrix we do the last time, it shows confused emotions in his voice but because he's breaking up, he has one consistent emotion showing up on the matrix. Him not waanting Athena to use the matrix also ties to this in my opinion. He wanted to be a monster with no heart to live out his life, but that's not how a human works.
@@-emir5484 "Emotional output of this voice extremely weak compared to typical voices. Subject deemed to have unique psychological makeup with almost no emotional fluctuation." If you're wondering what this is, it's the psychological profile of the Phantom taken straight from the game itself. This ain't the hill to die on; the facts are not on your side here.
@@GamingMagic13 That analysis is only on the VOICE. The voice doesn't reflect the emotions he really is feeling because he is hiding them. This report only talks about the voice, "Emotional OUTPUT of this voice is extremely weak compared to typical voices" this doesn't mean he isn't feeling anything inside, he just isn't outputting what he's feeling. "Subject deemed to have unique psychological MAKEUP with almost no emotional fluctuation" a makeup is well, a cover, a façade. A façade isn't the actual face, just like how his voice isn't reflecting his actual emotions.
@@-emir5484 Allow me to direct you to a line from Edgeworth: "The ability to read emotions from speech, and the subject of her mother's research." Her line of work is directly reading the emotions themselves. Also, makeup: "the composition or constitution of something." Enough said. Again: not the hill to die on.
objectively aa4 is really bad but. i dont give a shit, i still had fun w it. (one thing ill disagree with is the ranking of turnabout trump but im not gonna gush here about it since a lot of other people have done it better)
And that’s perfectly fine; you’re allowed to enjoy bad games. I’ve never wanted to take anyone’s personal enjoyment away; just so long as we can acknowledge the game’s objective lack of quality.
I don’t get why you believe the characters were making a big deal out of Apollo vs Phoenix. If I recall correctly, all that happened was that the judge was curious as to why Apollo was going up against his BOSS. It had nothing to do with friendship. Even if you say that it’s common for situations like that to occur IRL, it’s not something the game spends a lot of time dwelling on. If you’re actually referring to trucy and Ema’s rather strong opinions on the matter then you’d be right normally, but I feel in this case it would be in character for both to act like that.
TRUCY: "Daddy! Apollo! No! We can't have our agency's talent competing against each other!" ------ TRUCY: "I'm just worried things will never be the same between Daddy and Apollo..." ------ JUDGE: "Hmm...so then, you two have had a falling out?" ------ JUDGE: "I see...Well, here's to hoping this has no adverse affect on your working relationship." ------ EMA: "You owe Mr. Wright an apology. After all he's done for you, you have some nerve!" ------ Just to name a few examples.
@@GamingMagic13 I actually updated my comment in the time you posted your comment. Thanks for the quick reply though I’m kind of stunned. Anyway, I don’t think it’s a big deal either way because their remarks don’t even affect the plot. And like I said, ema and trucy both have their personality quirks and I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary for them to act like that. Ema siding with Wright, trucy not liking the idea of competition... Also, expecting realistic reactions from characters in an ace attorney game is rather ridiculous. This is the same series where you cross examine a parrot, a whale, get assaulted in the middle of a courtroom by a psycho with a whip and more...are you seriously going to get pissed because the game decided to be slightly more dramatic with its setting? Also, failing the case DOES cause Apollo and wright’s relationship to deteriorate in the losing dialogue, due to the personal stake that Apollo has in the case.
@@callinater6133 ------------------------- "Ema siding with Wright, trucy not liking the idea of competition..." My problem isn't that that the "side" they take is contradictory to their personality. In fact, that makes perfect sense: -Ema and her sister were saved by Phoenix. She has no reason to side with Apollo -Athena has worked closely with Apollo from the moment she arrived at the agency, and that bond is not one to be easily broken. -Trucy is both Apollo's brother and Phoenix's adoptive daughter, meaning that her decision to not take any sides makes perfect sense. The issue is that the game makes this big dramatic deal about how insane it is for two lawyers from the same firm to be battling each other in court, despite the fact that _being lawyers is their job_ and it has no bearing on their personal friendship. It seems like a massive overreaction for no reason, when all you need to do to make a big deal about it is focus on the fact that Apollo is facing off against *the legendary Phoenix Wright* ------------------------- "Also, expecting realistic reactions from characters in an ace attorney game is rather ridiculous. This is the same series where you cross examine a parrot, a whale, get assaulted in the middle of a courtroom by a psycho with a whip and more...are you seriously going to get pissed because the game decided to be slightly more dramatic with its setting?" 1. This standard is ridiculous. If, as a result of winning a case, Phoenix took all his clothes off and did the chicken dance in the middle of the courtroom, and I said "that's a ridiculous thing for him to have done" would your response be "expecting realistic reactions from characters in an ace attorney game is rather ridiculous?" 2. You've created a false parallel. Disregarding the fact that animals have been called to the stand in real-life court cases before, saying "silly things have happened before" doesn't equate to "characters regularly have nonsensical reactions to things." 3. I was not "pissed" because of this. The civil trial becoming a murder trial certainly pissed me right the hell off - on top of the fact that they straight-up ripped off Farewell, My Turnabout - but I don't know how you've arrived at this conclusion. 4. I never said "case dramatic, therefore case bad." I explicitly state in the video that having Apollo face off against Phoenix "sets up incredible emotional stakes." I was very much in favor of the fact that they were going to test Apollo's skillset by battling a legend in court. It's the fact that the game blows this way out of proportion.
@@GamingMagic13 that comparison is ridiculous. Comparing character remarks to Phoenix doing a naked dance is not even in the same dimension. Even if you wanna call their reactions over dramatic they are still very much tame compared to some of the more ridiculous things this series has pulled. And like I said, you’re criticising something that’s COMPLETELY inconsequential to the story and act like it drags the case down. You could literally remove those lines from the game and nothing would change. That criticism in particular just stuck out as needlessly nitpicky. I never suggested you think being dramatic makes a case bad, but this was a decision that was clearly made to add drama. Don’t like it, ignore it - because it’s completely irrelevant anyway and is merely a few lines of dialogue in total.
@@callinater6133 ---------------- "that comparison is ridiculous. Even if you wanna call their reactions over dramatic they are still very much tame compared to some of the more ridiculous things this series has pulled." _Your_ defense was "their reaction was ridiculous because expecting realistic reactions is ridiculous." _You_ said that. Not me. I'm simply pointing out how untenable of a position that is. Also, you're trying to drag this conversation into the realm of "lol crazy things happen" when that's not where this stemmed from. I already explained how their reactions to this event and the examples you mentioned are not equivalent in the slightest, yet you seem to have ignored that. ---------------- "And like I said, you’re criticising something that’s COMPLETELY inconsequential to the story and act like it drags the case down." Okay, reverse card: you're acting as if this is the only criticism I have of this entire case, as well as ignoring the fact that I ranked this case _in the top tier_ on the list. ---------------- "I never suggested you think being dramatic makes a case bad" Are you kidding me? Remember earlier, when you said this?: "are you seriously going to get pissed because the game decided to be slightly more dramatic with its setting?" ----------------
That was a very interesting video. I agree with most of it, but of course some opinions are different. I made a ranking list by my own some time ago, here it is from worst to best: Mediocre: 35.) AA2 The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - my least favourite case for similar reasons that you already listed. 34.) AAI Turnabout Visitor (I-1) - I didn't enjoy it that much, a bit underwhelming and not too exciting. 33.) AAI The Kidnapped Turnabout (I-3) - In general, I consider AA Investigations as the worst AA game. 32.) AA1 The First Turnabout (1-1) - Neat introduction case, but very short and not too special. 31.) AA4 Turnabout Serenade (4-3) - There are so many plotholes + rewatching the vid 10x is annoying. 30.) AAI Turnabout Airlines (I-2) - I like the setting and the culprit, still one of the weaker cases. 29.) AA5 The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2) - I wish the culprit wasn't shown from the very beginning. 28.) AA2 Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - Good & emotional resolution, I didn't like everything though. 27.) AA2 Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - Yeah, annoying characters and not too logical, but somehow I still enjoyed it, especially the ending and in general the setting. Good: 26.) AAI Turnabout Ablaze (I-5) - Some nice plot twists, but still easily the worst final case in the series. 25.) AA1 Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - I like the story, yet the pacing is not too good and drags on. 24.) AA5 Turnabout Countdown (5-1) - Nice introduction case (I love the mood matrix & Athena). 23.) AA4 Turnabout Corner (4-2) - Not the best case, but a very funny one, I had good laughs. 22.) AA6 The Foreign Turnabout (6-1) - A pretty good and comprehensive 1st case. 21.) AA3 Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - Challenging and engaging! Very Good: 20.) AA1 Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - This is so high mainly due to the story importance and shock value. 19.) AA4 Turnabout Trump (4-1) - Fresh and surprisingly unexpected resolution, which I enjoyed. 18.) AA3 The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - Very good case, good mystery. 17.) AA6 Turnabout Time Traveller (6-6 - DLC) - Enjoyable, good fanservice. 16.) AAI Turnabout Reminiscence (I-4) - By far the best case from AAI and the only really good one. 15.) AA5 The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4) - That short case was pur joy! Amazing: 14.) AA3 Turnabout Memories (3-1) - Easily the best introduction case in the series, I was so hooked! 13.) AA6 The Magical Turnabout (6-2) - One of the most enjoyable investigation segments ever! 12.) AA3 Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - Nostalgic, intense, shocking, heartbreaking, amazing! 11.) AA6 The Storyteller Turnabout (6-4) - The only case I played 4 times due to how enjoyable it was! 10.) AA4 Turnabout Succession (4-4) - Not the best final case, but still a lot of suspense & mystery. 9.) AA6 The Rite of Turnabout (6-3) - Such a good and long case with many twists. Outstanding: 8.) AA5 Turnabout Academy (5-3) - Very enjoyable, great setting, a bit cheesy, but that's ok! 7.) AA5 Turnabout Reclaimed (5-6 - DLC) - I love every single character and the awesome resolution. Imo the best "non-final case" in the series! 6.) AA2 Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - Amazing story! This case alone carries the otherwise mediocre JfA so hard. 5.) AA1 Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - The hardest and longest case ever, awesome story & characters! 4.) AA5 Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5) - One of the most shocking plottwists, I wish the resolution was a bit better, though. 3.) AA1 Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - A true classic, I love the story and the epic showdown. Almost perfect: 2.) AA6 Turnabout Revolution (6-5) - I was hooked from the beginning to the end. So many great plottwists and shocking moments, simply outstanding! 1.) AA3 Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - This is the pinnacle and the perfect ending is the reason why this is my favourite case ever. Oh and here is my game tier list: Almost perfect: Spirit of Justice (This game totally surprised me by how good the story, character writing and plot twists were - only real negative is the lackluster prosecutor). Trials & Tribulations (Amazing conclusion to the original trilogy with great flashback cases). Outstanding: Dual Destinies (I have a soft spot for this game, I enjoyed every second of it despite some minor flaws). Very Good: Ace Attorney 1 (Admittably, some sections drag on a little bit and don't have the best pacing, but the final cases are sooo good). Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney (I love the cast of characters and the surprisingly dark story). Good: Justice for All (One of the weaker games for sure, the first three cases were a bit underwhelming, the final case saves the game, though). Apollo Justice (Also one of the weaker games due to some logic flaws and not having one really outstanding good case. I'd still consider it good, since I enjoyed playing it). Mediocre: Investigations 1 (The only game I didn't quite enjoy that much, the story was not that interesting, there are hardly any good plottwists and the only really good case in the game is the flashback case).
@@GamingMagic13 I personally think it should be at good or mediocre i am currently at the second case for apollo justice and I think the case is boring asf so far but I did think the first case was good
5-5 is outstanding IMO. The Phantom is a great villain, and you’re foreshadowing criticism is completely invalid. In 5-2, Jinxie calls him a “ghost” and says he is fake, in 5-3, Blackquill talks about his distrust with Fulbright, in 5-4, he gets Athena accused and blatantly forged evidence, and in 5-5 the entire case was foreshadowing it. And the Fulbright gut punch wasn’t a gut punch, it was meant to confirm that Fulbright is pretending to be someone that he is not.
Perhaps I should’ve rephrased “foreshadowing” as “actually substantive clues that would logically lead to his true identity.” Also, you missed the point of what i was saying. There was no tragic reveal because we never knew the real Fulbright. It wasn’t a case of “the person you thought was good was evil all along” and it wasn’t a case of “the person you connected with was killed and replaced with an evil mastermind” it was a case of “you never knew this person at all actually, so any connection you thought you had meant nothing at all.” I’m not the first person to document the many other ways the Phantom could’ve been handled infinitely better than he was; those are just some of the possibilities.
@@GamingMagic13 I don’t think you understand the point of his villain. First of all, Jinxie called him fake and a ghost most definitely foreshadows his identity, and Blackquill hinting at distrust along with Fulbright forging evidence clues him at being a villain. Second of all, the gut punch with Fulbright was supposed to be that the man you thought you had good bonds with was fake all along.
@@GamingMagic13 Alright man, I don’t see the point in furthering this conversation. I’d like to see your TGAA opinions now that it’s been localized though.
@@pickleioi9058 Lucky for you, I have full LPs of both games available on the channel: TGAA: czcams.com/play/PLsULwTqrDVA-RXGzqIbXOqerCxRZua-cA.html TGAA2: czcams.com/play/PLsULwTqrDVA_G0G5aZ7ow-zVEzCrMfcgk.html
@@queencancerous5332 I'm sure there are people who hate the game for stupid reasons, but the criticism I levied against it in this video are incredibly detrimental to its quality.
Alright Update: Turnabout Trump: Fucking fantastic, I love new Phoenix unlike most people. Kristoph is also great Turnabout Corner: Very boring except for Trucy Turnabout Serenade: Fantastic murder idea, but presented very bad. I like Lamiroir and Klavier in this case but the circumstances under which Machi is accused are dumb as shit, and Daryan is so obviously the villain Turnabout Succession: I like the defendant and the way the story is, but for a final case, it just feels so...underwhelming.
1-2,3-1,3-4 and any case in dual destinies except the second case(this one is mid),dlc(this one is good),and the third case(this one is great) are incredibly overrated especially 3-4,that case is so boring,with a defendant that is straight up a p-word,killing terry fawles is legit the only crime dahlia commited that i did not hate,also the mystery is uninteresting,this is literally a first case,but worse,because its in the middle of the game,and slows down the pacing even more than recipe,but at least recipe is funny,has great characters(except for the chef),has a interesting mystery that actually requires me to think,unlike beginnings,in which i was just asking myself the entire time,"when will they answer the mysteries of the first case",beginnings is such a stain in what would otherwise be a great game If i had to rank the games it would be like this Ace attorney:great=brought down by turnabout sisters Justice for all:good=brought down by turnabout big top Trials and tribulations:great=brought down by turnabout overratedness Apollo justice:good=it may not reach the same peaks as the original triloly,like rise from the ashes(my favorite case in the series),farewell my turnabout and bridge to the turnabout,but it also does not reach the same lows,like turnabout sisters,turnabout big top and turnabout overratedness Ace attorney investigation 1:good=this game is all over the place,visitor is mid,airlines is great,kidnapped is terrible,reminiscence is good and ablaze is amazing Investigations 2:outstanding=this game just gets better with each case,target is a fine introduction,imprisoned and inherited are good,forgotten is the best case outside of the phoenix trilogy and the great turnabout is great Dual destinies:good=this games starts out kinda mid with countdown and monstrous,reclaimed is good,academy is the peak of the game,cosmic is alright,and turnabout for tomorrow is good The layton crossover game:mid=it starts out with the worst tutorial case in the series,has a forgetable second case,has a decent third case and has an alright finale Spirir of justice:great=the tutorial would be in high c-tier for me,if only the game didnt shout "I HOPE YOU DIE IN A FIRE" everytime phoenix breathed,the magical trunabout is great,rite is good,storyteller is so close to being bad,but its saved by uendo and blackquill,also i hate the culprit of this case,revolution has a fine first half,but the second half is legit the best mainline case in the stuff happens i guess trilogy The great ace attorney 1:good=case 1 is good,i actually dont mind case 2,case 3 is great,case 4 is saved by soseki and the mystery,case 5 is great The great ace attorney 2:outstanding=it has the best tutorial in the series,an good second case,the peak of the game in case 3,an alright set-up case 4 and case 5 which is sadly brought down by "haha sholmes ex machina go brrrr"
Some of the Apollo justice ace attorney cases were shit but the first case was great and Athena and Apollo are up there with Edgeworth and the judge as my favourite characters, also the rock star guys pretty cool
So as far as my opinions compared to yours I mostly agreed for the original trilogy, apart from recipe for turnabout being a bit too high considering that Furio Tigre was a pretty poor villain (way too obvious although comedic). And then you get to investigations and I understand its subjective but I loved shi long lang and callisto yew as well as all the characters in investigations (detective badd being one of my favourites). And then apollo justice comes along. How long has it been since you gave played it? I understand that how they treated phoenix's character probably tainted your view of the game (although I personally liked it) and turnabout serenade (upon replaying it recently) makes no sense but turnabout trump is one of the best tutorial cases by far for me at least. They have a great twist of your mentor being the true criminal, a tight case with good logic and the mystery of what happened to phoenix hanging over the whole case. Creating an entire low tier just for this trial and corner is an insane overreaction. I realy liked corner with the relationship between wocky and his family as well as trucy, realy liked her and apollo's relationship and developing the mystery around phoenix as well as the actual mystery, I thought all the smaller crimes linking together worked great with a genuine reason for stealing the stand. Again, as said before, turnabout serenade is terrible. Full stop. The most confusing rank for me is by far turnabout succession. The culmination of phoenix's 7 year long revenge, the ingenious poisoned stamp (a trap paused for 7 years) was for me one if the most creative crimes, and so many bombshells. I guess I can see that kristoph has a weak motive although I wouldn't say it ruins his character and I don't understand why you hate klavier. Smart, a strong moral compass, conflicted over his brothers crimes, and also a character with great chemistry with apollo. In conclusion I think you just got rubbed the wrong way by phoenix's character which I can understand although I don't agree with and it dragged down your overall opinion. A lot of your complaints are tiny nitpicks blown out of proportion and I don't think you realy gave the game a chance for you to understand the characters and what the game is trying to do.
It has been seven months, almost to the day, since I finished recording my Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney LP. And yes, my attitude towards the game was absolutely affected by finding out that they had destroyed Phoenix's character - as is to be expected. The proof of this is that I was very upset during episodes 1 & 2 of my LP - the Turnabout Trump episodes - but at the very end of the case I said that the mystery itself was semi-decent. I was in a bad mood because I just found out Phoenix's character had been annihilated, but I was still able to assess the case objectively. However, that does not mean my assessment of the entire game was blinded by this. I'm happy to see that you acknowledge that Turnabout Serenade is bad at the very least, but my assessment of the quality of the story and gameplay was completely unaffected by the fact that Phoenix's character is destroyed. I _wanted_ this game to be good. I had hopes that, in spite of the fact that Phoenix has been completely annihilated, they would still present cleverly constructed mysteries with interesting characters. They didn't. At all. Here are the game's major problems: GAMEPLAY: -Perceive is a pain to use. The FOV is too limited and the inability to progress through the testimony one statement at a time creates an extremely frustrating experience. -Ema's new investiagation techniques are unnecessarily gimmicky, make zero sense story-wise (a shoe print database!?!?!?!?), and are also a pain to use STORY (For the sake of keeping this comment within the word count, I have omitted the minor plot holes and am focusing on the major issues. I also won't mention the story errors in Turnabout Serenade since you've admitted that case is bad) Turnabout Corner: -Phoenix should not be able to survive - or should at least have severe head trauma - after _flying thirty feet through the air and crashing headfirst into a lamppost_ -Phoenix shouldn't have been able to adopt Trucy in the first place considering he was disbarred for forging evidence, and doesn't have enough income to support the family. -At least one person in the courtroom should've seen that The Amazing Mr. Hat wasn't actually a person -To my knowledge, the fact that the tailpipe was partially obstructed would not have prevented it from starting. The car may not run well, but it would at least start. Turnabout Succession -Phoenix should not be able to be the head of a newly formed jury system after being disbarred for forging evidence -The nurses and doctors should've heard the gunshots -They would know the exact time of death because the victim was hooked up to a heart-rate monitor -Nobody's questioning how Klavier is so prepared to deal with Phoenix's forgery, including having a witness in his back pocket ready to call? -Zak, Trucy's father, just leaves her alone?!!?!? -There was no point in Zak hiring a lawyer when he planned on vanishing no matter what the outcome of the trial was. -It is revealed that Zak had the real page the whole time and didn't give it to Phoenix. WHY!?! -The whole MASON System is entirely pointless because all Phoenix had to do to accomplish his mission was reach out to Edgeworth for help since - you know - he is a _prosecutor_ CHARACTERS -Phoenix & Ema's character assassinations are unforgivable -The defendants are either terrible people (Wocky) or completely uncooperative when it comes to telling the player vital information (Phoenix & Vera). Machi's slightly different; he was nice, sure, but by the time we were actually able to speak to him we had already solved the entire mystery so what was the point? -Why do I hate Klavier? His rock'n'roll antics were annoying to deal with and he's the least developed prosecutor. There's nothing interesting about him that isn't also annoying. -Every other characters isn't developed enough for the player to like them or hate them. I gave this game all the chances in the world. I kept hoping "maybe the next case won't be bad" or "maybe they'll reveal something that makes Phoenix's character actually make sense" but the cases kept getting worse and the reasoning for Phoenix's disbarment were ridiculous. And just so we're clear, if the game replaced Phoenix Wright with some random defense attorney who was disbarred, it would still be a bad game. His character assassination may be this game's biggest problem, but his removal from the story would not fix the game's various other problems. In other words, I was not blinded by the fact that Phoenix's character was ruined. The game just sucks. P.S. The purpose of me creating two new tiers for the Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney cases was for comedic effect.
@@GamingMagic13 I understand where you are coming from but I still disagree, for me a lot of the complaints about the cases you point out are small logic holes like how phoenix survived the car crash and many problems that aren't realy related to the core crime. I could do this with many trials, let's take 2-4 for example. How did de killer kidnap her in a busy hotel, how did gunshoe survive crashing at high speed, how does engarde summon brandy, how are spirit mediums even allowed in a court of law, they phone and set up a radio to de killer and they can't track it, they actual believe testimony from a contract killer? That's the kind of complaints you have with most of the cases and you could probably say that the problems I pointed out were incorrect and I could probably go through each one and say that yours aren't valid but where does that get us because every trial in the series has these little faults, the actual core mystery and the core plot is much more important and I believe that's what your overlooking. It feels like your looking for reasons to hate the cases. I thought appolo justice had some of the smartest cases in the series like the stamp murder paused for 7 years and realising in turnabout corner that the shooter was in the stand. As for the story I can understand that klavier is probably subjective, I can see that his persona could be annoying, but I'm not sure how ema was character assassinated? She's still the same science obsessed person perhaps just a little more mature. Now the main point of contention in apollo justice is of course phoenix and I personally thought it was genius. I understand it seems like it makes no sense but you have to remember it's been 7 years. He lost everything he had, of course he became a different person, but what I love about this was how phoenix felt like a force to be reckoned with. For 7 years he had been planning under the guise of the whole pianno playing persona and you can see this from the first trial. His core desire to find the truth is still there, its just his naivety is gone, he's always 1 step ahead. I understand how seeing him like this still feels like a gut punch but that is the entire point. The whole game is about betrayal and mistrust, betrayed by your mentor gavin and finding that you can't even trust Phoenix Wright. I wouldn't say it's a character assassination, it's simply an evolution. They could have kept the exact same rookie phoenix and his animations but they dared to try something different and I thought it worked amazingly. I guess we can agree to disagree with this game because id probably put it at least In the good tier, but personally in the great tier.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Phoenix managing to survive something that should've killed him is a small logic hole." Do you _need_ me to explain how ridiculous it is to say that _a character surviving something that would've killed them_ is a small logic hole? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "you could probably say that the problems I pointed out were incorrect." You're right, I could very easily do that and definitively establish all of them as invalid. However, even if I were unable to do so, that would not suddenly make Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney a good game. It would mean that both games have major plot errors. So, if you want to defend the game as good, you need to actually defend against the points I bring up, not just say "Well this other game has plot holes too (regardless of whether or not they're accurate)" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "the actual core mystery and the core plot is much more important and I believe that's what your overlooking" The plot holes I pointed out all directly relate to the core mystery. Let's break down why each issue I mentioned breaks the story: Turnabout Corner: -If Phoenix were unable to adopt Trucy, she wouldn't be in the game. This sounds like an obvious statement, but without her, Apollo would've lost the Turnabout Corner trial. The only reason he doesn't lose is because she pulls out The Amazing Mr. Hat. Speaking of which... -If the people in the courtroom realized that Mr. Hat wasn't actually a person holding Trucy hostage, Apollo would've lost the trial and Alita would've gotten away with the crime. -The final contradiction of the case centers around the car being able to start. The question the prosecution brings up is "Why use the stand if the car runs perfectly fine?" The answer is "the car couldn't start because the tailpipe was clogged." However, based on the reasoning I previously presented the car should be able to start even if it wouldn't run well. If the car was functioning properly, then Apollo's claims fall flat and he loses the trial. Turnabout Succession: -If Phoenix is unable to lead the jury system, Kristoph never gets exposed for his master plan since he refuses to go to Edgeworth for help for whatever reason -If the nurses and doctors heard the first gunshot - which they absolutely should've - they would've seen that Zak shot the clown and that Magnifi was still alive. If they heard the second gunshot - which again, they absolutely should've - then they would've discovered Valant at the scene of the crime and not Zak, fundamentally changing the entire case. -Since he was, in fact, hooked up to a heart-rate monitor, there should've been no confusion whatsoever as to the time of death which would've made solving the case exponentially easier. -If people were suspicious of Klavier's knowledge of the forgery, there would've been an investigation and Phoenix may not have ultimately been disbarred - which is the _inciting incident of this entire game_ -About Zak Leaving Trucy: Perhaps I miscategorized this criticism. It's not a plot hole, because it's not impossible for Zak to abandon his daughter and leave her entirely on her own. I should've put this in the "Character" section because it makes absolutely no sense for him to do that since _he is her father_ -If Zak never hired a lawyer, Phoenix would never have been disbarred. Again, that is the _inciting incident of the entire game_ -If Zak had given Phoenix the real page - which he had in the courtroom lobby - then _Phoenix would never have been disbarred because he wouldn't have presented forged evidence_ And, once again, **this is the inciting incident of the entire game** -If Phoenix simply reached out to Edgeworth for help in seeking revenge against Kristoph, this whole game never needed to happen in the first place. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I'm not sure how ema was character assassinated?" This is an easy one. The idea that she would've failed the exam in the first place is absolutely ridiculous considering her vast knowledge of forensic investigative techniques way before she even began to study the subject. Even if you still think it's reasonable for her to have failed, why would she have given up and resorted to her current job? She never gave up on her sister when the odds were stacked against her, so why would she just say "well, guess that dream's dead" after failing the test a single time? But even if you think she would've given up, her attitude towards Apollo & Trucy is such a blatant contradiction of her personality from Rise from the Ashes that it's almost comical - almost. No matter how grim the situation, she always did her best to remain optimistic and positive, yet now she's transformed into Oscar the Grouch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Now the main point of contention in apollo justice is of course phoenix and I personally thought it was genius" Oof. Alright, let's break down Phoenix's character in this game: -"of course he became a different person" Yes, people change over time, but if you establish a character to be one way in one game, you cannot just transform him into a completely different person in a different game without justifying the transition. Let's say I write a story about a guy - we'll call him Steve - who loves to play soccer with all of his heart and it matters more to him than anything else. He bonds with his teammates and leads the team to victory in a championship and is on track to become a legendary soccer player. Now let's say I write a sequel to this story that begins with Steve throwing every soccer ball he has in the garbage can and ripping up his soccer uniform, proudly proclaiming "I HATE SOCCER!" Does this make logical sense? No, it doesn't, because it is a blatant contradiction of his character from the first story with no justification whatsoever. That is what happened with Phoenix in this game. -"phoenix felt like a forced to be reckoned with" Spoken as if the Phoenix from the original trilogy wasn't someone to be feared from the perspective of the criminals? -"for 7 years he had been planning under the guise of the whole piano playing persona" And that's exactly the issue. Being Scooby-Doo for seven years is completely and utterly pointless. He is friends with Edgeworth, a person who has been previously shown to have incredible influence behind the scenes and would've easily been able to help Phoenix expose Kristoph without having to reach out to Apollo or create the MASON System in the first place. -"I wouldn't say it's a character assassination, it's simply an evolution" No, an evolution would be if this game took place forty years in the future when Phoenix is retired, and is no longer practicing law, but he acts as a mentor for Apollo. He doesn't need to be in the courtroom screaming "OBJECTION!" to be in character, he just needs to not be a walking contradiction. The Phoenix Wright from the original trilogy would've _never_ accepted being disbarred when he knew he didn't forge the evidence. He would've fought tooth and nail to challenge his disbarment, he wouldn't have just played poker for seven years - especially when _he is friends with Edgeworth_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This game is an indefensible creation that makes the entire original trilogy pointless. His legendary journey to became an ace attorney was completely destroyed because Kristoph lost a game of poker, Ema was annihilated, the case logic makes no sense, the characters are either terrible people or lack any characteristics to make the player care about them one way or the other, and it's frustrating to play because of needlessly complicated investigative mechanics as well as Perceive. If you like this terrible game, that is absolutely fine. I would never want to take your enjoyment of this game away. But to defend it as good, even "genius," is another matter entirely.
@@GamingMagic13 we could continue this battle of giant paragraphs but I think we can just agree to disagree, again as I said before I could go over all of the problems you pointed out but 1 I would hit the word limit and 2 as I said before you can do this with many cases, it doesn't make them completely defunct. These games take place in an entirely different legal system that makes completely no sense by our rules but again to me they seem like nit picks the only real important ones being why zack abandoned trucy, (he was a wanted criminal and trucy was involved in his escape, he could potentially have made things worse for her and he knew she was in safe hands) as well as to why the gunshots in the hospital weren't heard (it was the middle of the night in an empty ward). As for your response to phoenix's character Steve the football* player isn't a good comparison. It would be more accurate if for example Steve suffered a serious injury playing football or was banned from playing for life. Phoenix has many reasons to act the way he does (considering he lost everything) and again he's not just being a hobo for 7 years he still wants to find the truth and he's spent those years preparing to bring kristoph to justice, we can see this in the Mason system in which it's purpose is mostly to show how phoenix became who he is and how he pieced together the whole conspiracy. Just overall i think you are at least critising them a little harshly at the very least but I 100% understand how you feel, as for someone who realy enjoyed the new direction they took phoenix and the new characters I could overlook all the problems you pointed out and realy enjoy this game but I can see that considering how central phoenix's character is to the plot that if you feel like it doesn't make sense it has some what of a knock on effect. It's probably important to point out that I've only played all these game (except spirit of justice and dgs 1 and 2) this year back to back so maybe this changes my perception of the game. Either way I think we can just respect that different people see thus game differently and not say that it's objectively good or bad.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "as I said before you can do this with many cases, it doesn't make them completely defunct." "to me they seem like nit picks " I explicitly stated why every plot hole I brought up has major ramifications for the plot. It's fine if they don't bother you, but every single issue I listed either does major damage to, or completely breaks the story. The mysteries, as well as the methods in which the characters solve these mysteries, are completely undone by these plot holes. One of them involves a character surviving an impossible situation. Some would prevent Phoenix from ever having been disbarred. These are not insignificant. These are not nitpicks. These are game-breaking writing issues. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "he was a wanted criminal and trucy was involved in his escape, he could potentially have made things worse for her and he knew she was in safe hands" A. He knew that she could be implicated in his escape, and therefore he left her all alone to deal with it by herself? Truly father of the year. B. What safe hands? As far as he knew, she had no living relatives. She was by herself for _two weeks_ before Phoenix called her into his office. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "it was the middle of the night in an empty ward" You do realize that there are nurses and doctors who work night shifts, right? You are aware that they don't just leave their patients by themselves overnight? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Steve the football* player isn't a good comparison. It would be more accurate if for example Steve suffered a serious injury" Phoenix never suffered from any mental condition that prevented him from being a defense attorney. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "or was banned from playing for life" Then allow me to amend my story. In the sequel, the story begins with Steve lying on a couch dejected because he can't play the sport he loves anymore. Why is this the case? Because he was serving as a goalkeeper and dove to block the ball, but as he did someone from the other team collapsed next to him. From the perspective of every other player on the field and the audience, it looked like Steve tackled the player. This led to an immediate red card and a lifetime ban. Steve had decided not to fight this ban and just sit around the TV all day instead. Does _this_ story make sense? No, it doesn't. Because if Steve(Phoenix) was passionate enough about playing(practicing law) then he should've absolutely fought back against the ban (challenged his disbarment). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "he still wants to find the truth and he's spent those years preparing to bring kristoph to justice" This is the third time you've sidestepped my point about this. All he had to do was go to Edgeworth for help because he has proven himself to have immense influence behind the scenes. There was no need to invent the MASON System or use Apollo as a part of his scheme. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Either way I think we can just respect that different people see thus game differently and not say that it's objectively good or bad." Remember when I said "If you like this terrible game, that is absolutely fine. I would never want to take your enjoyment of this game away?" You've been trying to defend the game against criticisms I've brought up, which makes me think you actually believe that this game is of quality. However, if you've adjusted your position from "this game is good" to "I really enjoy this game" then I stand by what I said before: I'm happy to hear that you love the game. No really, I am. I'm being 100% serious. I'm glad that you were able to find enjoyment in something I absolutely cannot. I've never once said that I wanted you to stop liking the game. If all you want to say is "I enjoy the game," that's absolutely fine.
You and I both know that Capcom isn't gonna localize it. Not to be rude, but question: Is there a reason why you don't want to play the fan translation on an emulator? I'm curious to know
I will never understand why the English community hate so much Apollo justice game and the reset of Phoenix, literally was the best that occurred to the character
"The English community..." okay then. If you don't understand how mercilessly his character was assassinated after my explanation in this video, or after perusing other comment responses I've written out, there's nothing else I can do to explain it.
@@GamingMagic13 lol you explanation has no sense, you are only insulted because he is not the same, some mediocre fan... But obviously, seeing Phoenix defending a whale is better
@@pipemondaca13Thank you for perfectly demonstrating how monumentally you have failed to comprehend what I was saying. Truly, your comprehension skills are unmatched. Once again; not my fault if you can’t understand something so simple. Good day.
@@pipemondaca13 Avoiding the argument? Are you fucking kidding me? Your “argument” was “lol you no like new character because new = bad” which is such a blatant mischaracterization of what I actually said that there’s nothing for me to say except “you failed to comprehend what I said; please try again.” Also, “The English community is ruining Ace Attorney.” Holy fuck...
Great Video! Personally I disagree in case 3-3. IMO the biggest issue which you didn't mention was the Tiger acting as Glen Elg. I mean, you cannot find any 2 people looking more different. And as this was the major twist, that's what makes the case so bad IMO. I do like AJ better than JFA. I agree that case 3 is shit, but I love the story around Kristoph Gavin, and case 1 is my favourite of the whole series. Every contradiction makes sense, Phoenix is brilliant and the case ends with a great mystery about Kristoph's motif, making me hungry for more. On the other hand, I dislike your favourite 3-5. It is brilliant, but I just can't stand how Maya is suffering and how beloved innocent Pearl is being used so shamelessly by her own mother. And in the end, it turns out that all might have been avoided if Godot had come over his hatred against Phoenix earlier and told him what he knew. Instead, he tragically became the culprit. It feels to me as though the evil side almost won the case, just for creating so much chaos and sorrow.
--------------------------------- "MO the biggest issue which you didn't mention was the Tiger acting as Glen Elg. I mean, you cannot find any 2 people looking more different. And as this was the major twist, that's what makes the case so bad IMO." 1. You'd be surprised how easily people can be fooled simply by the clothes and - in this case - the eyepiece. 2. Disregarding that, Victor has already been established as someone fully distracted by the waitresses at the restaurant. As such, Glen Elg - or, in this case, Furio Tigre - would've been a complete afterthought and he likely would not have been able to recall much about the specifics of who was sitting there - as later proven by his inability to remember...basically anything. --------------------------------- "Every contradiction makes sense, Phoenix is brilliant and the case ends with a great mystery about Kristoph's motif, making me hungry for more. " Notice how nothing you said had anything to do with Apollo, and instead had to do with other characters doing Apollo's work for him. But regardless, the case is absolutely the least terrible of the four, but that doesn't make it good. It's especially frustrating that the major "twist" with Kristoph being the villain is so painfully obvious that anybody can easily see right through it immediately. --------------------------------- "It is brilliant, but I just can't stand how Maya is suffering and how beloved innocent Pearl is being used so shamelessly by her own mother. And in the end, it turns out that all might have been avoided if Godot had come over his hatred against Phoenix earlier and told him what he knew. Instead, he tragically became the culprit. It feels to me as though the evil side almost won the case, just for creating so much chaos and sorrow." It almost feels like this isn't worth responding to because: 1. All you've described is how tragic the case is. A case having tragic circumstances doesn't mean the case itself is bad. 2. You already admitted that the case is brilliant So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@GamingMagic13 Your answer doesn't seem like you value other people's opinions very high if they differ from yours so Ill save my time and energy rather than responsing any further. Bye.
@@dustinbachstein3729 I have always encouraged discussion in my comments because I thoroughly enjoy discussing these types of things with people. As a matter of fact, I was actively looking forward to your response so we could continue this discussion. Sadly, it has now been stopped dead in its tracks because you think I don't value other people's opinions if they differ from my own. I have no idea how you've arrived at this conclusion, but I assure you it could not be farther from the truth. But, it was fun while it lasted I guess.
@@GamingMagic13 Well, for example, you wrote that case 4-1 IS the least terrible of AJ, but it IS still not good. That sounded to me like a matter of fact, not a personal opinion, so I saw no point in discussing any further. Also your ASCII smiley at the end looked quite not so friendly to me. But if you didn't mean it like that, let's keep going :D Case 4-1 True, Apollo almost seems to have a side-role in this case, but I actually find that quite funny! It's clear from the beginning that Phoenix is Apollo's big idol, but their careers start as different as one can think, and Apollo, trying to be as serious as his idol used to be, experiences one WTF scenario after the other - Phoenix almost takes over as defense attorney, Apollo's mentor is a killer, and thwn what happened at the start of case 2, when Apollo visits the agency, hoping for nothing but a normal job interview... I could feel with him and liked him from the start. On the other hand, much of Apollo's character came to light in 4-1, such as valuing truth over loyality to his mentor, and he didn't want Olga to take the blame even though he didn't like her. Obviously there were good reasons why Phoenix chose Apollo as his defense! Back to the case itself: I love the twist of Kristoph being the killer , especially if you take into account that in all previous first cases, the killer always was the first and only witness. 4-1 is my favourite case not only of AJ but of all Ace Attorneys (excluding 6-3 onwards, which I don't know yet). Case 3-5 As I said, we needn't discuss about the objective beilliancy of this case. However, I could not really enjoy it because I suffered so much with Maya, Pearly and, finally, also Godot. That's all I can say about it. Case 3-3 True, the old guy could be tricked fairly easily, but still the twist did not convince me. All these arrangements carrying unconscious and dead bodies back and forth in the Tres Bien - what if anyone casually looked through a window from outside? And the Tiger acting as Phoenix in court - Phoenix himself called it "cautious" but it was obviously a ridiculous decision from the Tiger -so ridiculous that it's already funny again, but I don't like it when a case is too far away from being realistic.
@@dustinbachstein3729 ------------------------------- "Well, for example, you wrote that case 4-1 IS the least terrible of AJ, but it IS still not good. That sounded to me like a matter of fact, not a personal opinion, so I saw no point in discussing any further. " I really don't see how saying that something "is" something is dismissive. I can say that the game "is" bad, but that doesn't mean I don't want people to try to convince me of the opposite. I always welcome that discussion; there's always the chance someone will bring up something I've yet to consider. ------------------------------- "Also your ASCII smiley at the end looked quite not so friendly to me." I apologize; that was not my intention. The intent was for it to come off as "Well, since you've said that the case is brilliant, and I've said the same thing, there doesn't really seem to be much of a discussion to be had here. Ah well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" ------------------------------- "Obviously there were good reasons why Phoenix chose Apollo as his defense!" Reasons he couldn't possibly have known due to never having met Apollo prior to that day. The only reason Phoenix specifically requested him was because he knew that Kristoph would deliberately put up a false defense to save himself; there's no other reason he would trust a rookie defense attorney when his life depended on it. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, you could even say that Phoenix had _way_ too much faith that Apollo would be willing to turn on his mentor in his first ever case - since, as we know, Phoenix had solved the entire case from the very beginning. ------------------------------- "I love the twist of Kristoph being the killer , especially if you take into account that in all previous first cases, the killer always was the first and only witness." Right; I forgot about The Lost Turnabout where Gumshoe was the killer, and Turnabout Memories where Phoenix was the killer. ------------------------------- "but still the twist did not convince me." Whether _you're_ convinced of the twist is irrelevant; all that matters is whether or not its believable that Victor Kudo could've believably mistaken Tigre for Glen Elg - which your response admits is a perfectly reasonable scenario. ------------------------------- "what if anyone casually looked through a window from outside?" First of all, the only thing that anybody could've seen that would raise alarm would be them moving Glen to and from the kitchen, which can easily be done out of sight by just sliding him across the floor out of the window's line of sight - since anybody casually looking in from outside would not bother to lean in closely to check out the floor. Second, we know based on the floor plans that there are only five windows in the restaurant; one for each table, as well as the glass in the door itself. Looking through the door would bring you face to face with a giant wall and the hostess stand, but nothing else. The other four, meanwhile would not offer a great vantage point due to the drapes, in addition to the foliage visible through the windows when Phoenix & Maya first arrive at the restaurant. I could also bring in evidence from the anime, but since that requires knowledge outside of the game itself I won't. ------------------------------- "And the Tiger acting as Phoenix in court - Phoenix himself called it "cautious" but it was obviously a ridiculous decision from the Tiger -so ridiculous that it's already funny again, but I don't like it when a case is too far away from being realistic." This is by far the part of the case that is the hardest to swallow, but upon taking a closer look at the script it's made clear that the writers put a tremendous amount of effort into making sure the pieces were all there for this to make logical sense. They establish very clearly that Xin Eohp had the materials required to take Phoenix's place in court - spiky hair, blue suit, phony attorney's badge - and that the other characters primarily recognize Phoenix based on these attributes. That idea is further supported, interestingly enough - in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, since Apollo - and likely many people in the gallery - don't realize that Phoenix is the defendant in Turnabout Trump until the judge outright refers to him as such. Maggey clearly stated in the first investigation of that case that "no one wanted to say anything" in regards to noticing differences between Xin Eohp and Phoenix. The most logical conclusion to draw from this - as supported by the trial in which we cross-examine Furio Tigre later in the case - is that people were too scared to say anything because of how loud and rude he was to the other people. No matter how physically different from Phoenix he was, his attitude had scared the courtroom enough to prevent them from accusing him of not being Phoenix Wright. The chain of events is as follows: When Xin Eohp initially met Maggey in the detention center, she had no reason to suspect that he wasn't Phoenix. She may have thought "Hm. He was acting differently" but since they had only met once before and that was months prior to this case, it's understandable that she would've dismissed the thought. When it came time for the trial, as I've previously mentioned, if Xin Eohp terrified the court with his loud roar in the later trial then he almost certainly did it in the initial one. As such, the line "no one wanted to say anything" holds up under scrutiny. People may have been suspicious, but they had no way to know for sure that it wasn't him. And without any definitive proof, they had no solid case to accuse him. -------------------------------
I get having a problem with Apollo Justice’s story, but how in the hell does 6-4 get a pass because oh my god that was the most nonsensical meaningless bullshit I’ve ever had the misfortune of playing in the series. The DID was not handled well at all, how does alcohol take out 3 out of 4 of your personalities? What person with DID’s experience does that line up with? I would be ok with leaps in logic if they served a purpose, but every stupid twist just felt like an excuse to keep the case going, like it was being written in the moment. I seriously could not believe how ridiculously stupid the case had become by the end, and for what it was a complete waste of time
I agree with almost everything except the Apollo justice part xD you are being too harsh on the game as always xD I have one minor problem though that you put AAI-3 on mediocre... This case... This fucking case deserves to be in the bottom tier of every list... The villains are god awful... The story and investigation saction are super annoying... The only thing good about this case is probably the introduction of Lang and Kay
Everything I've ever said in criticism of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney has been completely fair. And even if you don't believe that I've been objective in my assessment of the quality of theses games, nothing I said about that game is inaccurate in this video, and dismissing my criticisms as "being too harsh" is extremely disingenuous to say the least. And in regards to The Kidnapped Turnabout, I would play that case a million times over before I ever touched the atrocity of a video game known as Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney again.
@@BlueFire2424 but definitely any case in apollo justice is better than that one... that case had nothing positive about it... The plot was straight up bad and stretched out, the case itself was simply annoying and boring, the characters were also shitty... the only case I'd say comes close to as bad as this one would be turnabout corner.... I wouldn't say Investigations 1 is forgettable tbh... I really like case 4 and 5 of the game
@@LeneAlexandraa How about, instead of him stop making videos, YOU stop making comments? Clearly, you aren't able to write any sort of counterargument so you're just coming off as a salty 9-year-old.
![Gestalt: Steam & Cinder: Full Game [100%] {No Deaths} (No Commentary Walkthrough)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nAfOUQNiHO8/mqdefault.jpg)
Oh Yeah, that's a perfect way to wrap everything about a long saga, The TierList System. I'm really glad you manage to pull off this kinda of video that is not common to your channel. The best part of the video is seeing your thoughts about the cases in a wide image, because when anyone play a specific game of Ace Attorney, they probably will rate all the 4/5/6 cases alone, and not in a huge picture like this.
In my TierList, the Outstanding cases would be Goodbyes, Farewell, Bridge(My all time favorite) and Stolen(The only non-final case, because i love Luke Atmey as a villain and the whole "the first half was too easy" doesn't apply to me since i didn't solve everything so quickly during the first time). I probably should put Revolution here too... i don't know... It probably the best of A or the least best of S.
My all time least favorte is Corner. I know Justice For All and Apollo Justice had more terrible cases, but the thing is, Corner is boring. Alita is boring and a rip-off from Dahlia. Wocky is the worst defendant of the series. The mystery itself is not so luring to the player. Serenade and Succession could be(and probably are) worst cases but i wanted to finish those cases because of 1 or 2 mysterys i wanted find out at the end. Corner is just... why do i even need finish it? (Also, i am not a Content Creator like you, so i could just leave the game unfinished like that. I wouldn't do that, of course, but i just trying proving the point of how little intersting to finish Corner is).
Funnily enough, if Turnabout Sister happened in the more recent games, you would probably be able to 3D Analyse the recipt, so that ending would be totally different.
Answering your question about the Metal Detector, i am pretty sure you MUST choose it in order to continue the investigation and find the Metal Air Tank from the Steel Samurai Ballon. The dog or the fishing pole were just "red herrings" and you would have to swap them later with Gumshoe if you choose one of them.
Personal Rant not related to the video itself: In your last post, i typed that minor bad things like days without internet happen everytime so it wasn't a big deal that this video was delayed and guess what... i spent basically the entire 7th of July without internet. I am so mad that I could only watch this video about 14 hours after its release.
Great video. Great talk. This journey with the Blue Suit 'n' Spiky Hair Lawyer was amazing and i super excited to watch your Ghost Trick and Danganronpa gameplay. Thumbs up, bro. Your content is awesome!
To say that Alita is a rip-off of Dahlia is to give her way too much credit. And yeah; if I wasn't making a let's play on the game, I don't know if I would've had enough determination to finish it at all. But I'm glad I did; I never would've played Dual Destinies & Spirit of Justice otherwise.
And thank you so much for all the kind words :) I'm happy to hear you've been enjoying my content, and I'm excited to keep making more in the future.
Wait its you from every single pixel partners video
@@Ujktitru I don't know who Pixel Partners is.
@@GamingMagic13 I meant the guy who commented, Pedro
I do really recommend Investigations 2 as it's easy to access and it's honestly an amazing fan translation. Even Eng dubbed voice bubbles!
The translation is better than the base game. The fact that people use the original Japanese version to protect the only bad Ace Attorney game is ridiculous. This may be subjective, but the English voice actors actually sound more passionate, and therefore far better than the original Japanese VAs. Gregory's voiced by ProZD, and his voice was legitimately the only thing I remember about Gregory in the worst case of all time. When you hear that "matta" however, you can tell the Japanese VA is uninvested because I can't say I blame him.
@@torri776 Why do you hate investigations 2
@@panwasacz2733 Because it sucks.
You'll see why in 13 days.
@@torri776 What do you mean in 13 days ?
@@panwasacz2733 9 days to go until we find out... Whatever the reason for hating the game is. I have to say I'm curious, lol
You said you were curious about what happens with the fishing rod and Missile the dog. I grabbed both when I did it, the dog will eat Larry's Samurai dogs in a crazy scene, and the fishing rod just unlocks a few lines of dialogue with Lotta.
I would've loved to see Missile eating all the Samurai Dogs; especially since Larry was the whole reason we were in that mess to begin with.
@@GamingMagic13 obviously with the nature of the visuals of the original games, they didnt make the scene visual, but it's pretty funny seeing how upset larry becomes afterward
42:50 This is solved by having the events of the Layton crossover happen during that month, because Phoenix and Maya were overseas they didn't hear about the case until they got back.
I loved your commentary on Case 3-2. It may be easy, but holy shit, Luke Atmey was an amazing written villain. Like, holy crap, the complexity of the black mailing, and the fact that Luke Atmey makes a big brain play play by using the thievery as an alibi for the murder, genius ass plan right there. I fkn loved it.
Also he looks like Spamton G. Spamton
Yeah, I bloody love Apollo Justice. It's a mess, but I still love it. Phoenix seems to be most people's biggest problem with the game, but here's the thing for me: strip away the name Phoenix Wright, and he's actually a GREAT character. Top 20 in the series in my opinion, for sure. Yeah, him being Phoenix sucks, but I can still look past it. Kristoph is actually a pretty damn good Big Bad in my opinion, even if his motive is terrible. I also really liked Apollo himself - he's the last sane man in a world of idiots, and because of that you can't help but root for him. I've never understood the idea that Ema suffered character assassination in this game - I think it makes sense that she would be the way she is given that she got older, failed the exam and found out that Phoenix was disbarred. Trucy is a really great assistant in my opinion, and I also liked Perceiving. Klavier I thought was great, too - it's nice to see a prosecutor who isn't completely stuck-up and annoying from the off, and who is actually on the side of justice for once. I actually enjoyed Turnabout Corner - it's really stupid and highly flawed but I still found it fun, you know? Turnabout Trump I really like thanks to the numerous plot twists and cool setting. Turnabout Serenade is... pretty bad, admittedly, but I do still really like the final showdown between Apollo and Daryan. Turnabout Succession, messy as it is, I really love - I actually found the MASON system to be pretty well-designed and fun to mess around with. I also really liked Spark Brushel - not sure why. There are plotholes, obviously, but I didn't really mind that much because I was pretty invested in the game by this point and so I was willing to overlook them. Hopefully this really long ramble has shown that I definitely acknowledge the game's issues, but that I still really like it.
And you are absolutely allowed to love bad games; I've never wanted or tried to tell anybody they weren't. So long as you acknowledge the game's issues, you are absolutely allowed to enjoy games that are horrible.
@@GamingMagic13 so what is your progress on the essay on Apollo Justice AA?
I was trying to figure out why I like Apollo (the character, not the game) in AJ, and seeing him described as the last sane man in a world full of idiots sums it up pretty well. I like sarcastic and dry main protags when they're surrounded by wacky characters coz I really feel myself relating to them 😅
So I really like Apollo. Hate his game! But he was the anchor pulling me through that shitshow because I wanted to keep seeing his reactions to every stupid thing in it
Aside from the prosecutor. Easily my least favourite in the series. His guitar schtick got old REAL quick
I feel the biggest problem with Beanix/AA4 Phoenix is that IMHO Herlock Sholmes did the "trickster mentor" thing far better than Beanix/AA4 Phoenix Wright.
To elaborate, the one big problem with Beanix/AA4's Phoenix that I didn't realise until spending time with Herlock Sholmes in TGAA is that AA4 tried wat too hard to make Beanix too much of a cool and mysterious puppetmaster that he feels much more like an untouchable Übermensch and just doesn't feel human at all as a result, unlike Herlock Sholmes who felt very human despite his antics. The lack of humanity given to Beanix throughout the entirety of AA4 is what completely tanked him for me.
Trials and Tribulations is so fucking good.
Yes, yes it is.
@@GamingMagic13 I just finished it, I mean, I knew Bridge for a Turnabout was gonna be good, but holy nuggets it was so much better than I could ever imagine. Nice video btw, I basically agree with all of your placements.
Yup, Trials & Tribulations is truly something special.
Glad you enjoyed the video! :)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
1:21 The First Turnabout
4:09 Turnabout Sisters
8:31 Turnabout Samurai
*12:05** Turnabout Goodbyes*
*14:06** Rise From The Ashes*
Justice For All:
19:27 The Lost Turnabout
23:17 Reunion And Turnabout
26:23 Turnabout Big Top
*29:57** Farewell My Turnabout*
Trials And Tribulations
35:14 Turnabout Memories
37:44 The Stolen Turnabout
41:09 Recipe For Turnabout
44:09 Turnabout Beginnings
*45:47** Bridge To The Turnabout*
Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth
48:40 Turnabout Visitor
49:48 Turnabout Airlines
50:44 The Kidnapped Turnabout
52:37 Turnabout Reminiscence
*53:53** Turnabout Ablaze*
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
55:51 Turnabout Trump
57:40 Turnabout Corner
59:19 Turnabout Serenade
*1:00:35** Turnabout Succession*
Dual Destinies
1:03:40 Turnabout Countdown
1:05:10 Monstrous Turnabout
1:06:18 Turnabout Reclaimed
1:07:14 Turnabout Academy
1:08:02 The Cosmic Turnabout
*1:09:03** Turnabout For Tomorrow*
Spirit Of Justice
1:13:00 The Foreign Turnabout
1:14:50 The Magical Turnabout
1:16:11 The Rite Of Turnabout
1:17:18 Turnabout Storyteller
*1:18:06** Turnabout Revolution*
1:21:06 Turnabout Time Traveller
Dude turnabout for tomorrow literally made me cry and it was so good i literally have watched it 10 times.
You are not alone, brother
59:51 They also thought he was blind, yeah I don't think a blind teenager could fire a gun and not get hurt.
I mean it was put in place to show the flaws of the legal system because that’s what the game is about but sure
@@VB3Pac True, but the least they could do is acknowledge the fact of absurdity, like having Apollo state that the entire premise of the case is completely insane. But they don't do that, they pretend the whole indictment is perfectly legitimate.
As someone who liked Apollo Justice; you aren't wrong
I can relate. I realy liked AJAA but it is awful.
It's not even satisfying at all to take down Kristoph Gavin again when he's already been put away.
I'd even take an I2-3/3-3 where they get a wrong verdict (preferably on Olga) for the sake of keeping him around.
Since Phoenix is at his worst in this game, let Apollo build a relationship with Kristoph, and have him have to face him for his crimes only by the end of it all to then also redeem Phoenix.
@@BlueFire2424 Turnabout Trump is alright but the other 3 are mediocre at best. People who say that the cases are great level are deluded
@@jamestrainor4293 Yup.
@@jamestrainor4293 depends what you look for in a case, if you want the true killer to be a huge surprise yes they definitely are low on the list but if you want a fun time with a cast of unique characters and interesting turn of events they're really good. I guess it's much more subjective than the other games since if you dislike the characters there's no way you'll be able to enjoy it but I'll still defend it, the frustration that comes with having to prove evident things is only there to demonstrate why the system needs reforms and when you finally do get Kristoph after a whole game of struggling to find evidence you feel rewarded for the perseverance
43:00 I remember reading that fans were able to figure out where the Professor Layton crossover would take place in the Ace Attorney timeline, and they concluded that it is before the events of Phoenix's investigation into Recipe for Turnabout. This gives Phoenix and Maya a reasonable argument as to why they did not hear about the original trial, not only were they out of the country, but they were in a place that did not have easy access to modern day technology. I think the game is non-canon though but it's still an interesting tidbit.
finally someone is giving the magical turnabout the recognition it deserved!!!
I would put it in the outstanding tier as well. It's my favourite filler case in all of ace attorney
Another bad thing about the lost turnabout: Im pretty sure the time gap between when Wellington killed that guy and when he reported the body was 15 minutes, but why would he need 15 minutes to prepare even though all he did was write Maggey's name and delete the con artist's numbers, did he spend 15 minutes wondering how to write Maggey's name?
He spent 15 minutes trying to find his Glasses.
I’ve not finished Sprit of Justice yet (i’m on the third case) but i’m really liking the game and your list. DGS 1 and 2 and investigations 2 have some of the greatest cases in the whole franchise! and i totally agree with your number one
Glad you're enjoying the video! :)
When you finish the two DGS games, will you rank them among the cases at the end of the LP?
Yup; just like I did with Investigations 2, I'll announce my rankings for The Great Ace Attorney & The Great Ace Attorney 2 at the end of each respective game.
a great summary of the strengths and weaknesses of each case (the ones i'm familiar with, at least)! that being said, i'm surprised you only mentioned the first time phoenix showed damning evidence to the killer in the second episode with redd white when he also did the same with dee vasquez and manfred von karma, which was infinitely more frustrating because he should have learned his lesson by then. as for turnabout big top, i was really unhappy with how the game doesn't seem to have an issue with 16yo regina being proposed to by a 21yo max and 31yo trilo. that's what ruined dahlia for me too - she was written as a 14yo seductress when fawles at 20yo was definitely in the wrong for entering a relationship with her. this icky treatment of the young female characters is also present in recipe for turnabout with how phoenix tried to use an oblivious maya to get information out of the maid fetishist... that and the queercoding of armstrong really grossed me out. my other issues with that episode were how maggey somehow didn't know tigre wasn't phoenix despite him having defended her before, when it would have made much more sense to use a new character who knew phoenix's reputation but hadn't met him in person yet, especially after ema had already mistaken phoenix for mia. for me, having maggey as the defendant felt like a cheap excuse for a callback. furthermore, how come tigre got caught threatening pheonix by gumshoe but we didn't see the repercussions of that? overall, not a fan of that chapter.
i *was* really into bridge to the turnabout, though. i didn't like the earthquake plot convenience given how ham-handed its foreshadowing was, but the switch that occurred during it blew my mind. i did catch onto the dahlia-is-possessing-maya plot twist sooner than the game wanted me to, but instead of being annoyed i was so relieved she was okay. as for godot being the killer... oof. as soon as maya said she saw three red lights, i knew it was him, and it was tragic watching phoenix start unravelling that mystery despite maya's attempt to cover for him. my only complaint with that episode off the top of my head was how everyone seemed to forget that pearl was also on that side of the bridge and could have been the one to clean up the snow, which was kind of distracting since someone brought up she was there but then didn't go anywhere with that observation. overall though, a brilliant way to end that game, despite my other gripes with it.
Magical Turnabout is practically the second coming of Turnabout Serenade, I wonder why the sudden change of heart? Machi not being physically built to fire the gun is loonot even that big of a deal because most of the case is spent trying to prove Daryan as the culprit. Plus I wouldn't put it past a clearly corrupt legal system to suspect Machi of murder. 4-3 isn't even that great of a case imo, but your tone shift between these two cases is jarring even though they are very similar in concept.
The Foreign Turnabout seeming simple at first and unraveling to be more complex? You literally just described Turnabout Trump right there. Like who would've guessed that YOUR OWN MENTOR would be the culprit of the case?
I don't quite know how you can bash Kristoph Gavin for being cartoony when we have villains like Manfred Von Karma and Dahlia Hawthorne. Manfred is just a typical asshole who obsesses over his record, and Dahlia isn't very different from Kristoph if at all. The only difference I really see between them is that they hide behind different faces to cover up how evil they are. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate Manfred for what he offers to AA1, but let's not kid ourselves by singling out Kristoph as a cartoony villain.
"Character assassination" is a bit of a stretch. Ema wasn't assigned to forensics like she wanted to be and felt miserable being a normal detective. She was essentially condemned to the same life as Gumshoe, and Gumshoe had it rough. Hobo Phoenix is definitely different from the Phoenix we're used to, but you were definitely grasping at straws to hate on AJ Phoenix in general. "Nothing beats experience" is totally a line he would use. He's known for putting on a confident face, especially when he's bluffing, so he wouldn't waste any opportunities to boast about his experience against a rookie prosecutor after they made a mistake. So in other words, the Phoenix we see in the flashback portion of Turnabout Succession is a 100% faithful representation of the Phoenix we knew from the trilogy. Also, I don't know how a game can kill Phoenix's character development when he didn't really have much character development to begin with. Between AA1 and AA3, there aren't many noticeable differences in his character aside from being more competent at his job.
I will admit, Phoenix running a jurist system was far-fetched, but he still had connections in the legal world who wouldn't have any problems granting favors for him. In a series brimming with all sorts of far-fetched things, that shouldn't be where you draw the line.
If the Apollo Justice hatred in the video is meant to be a joke, then it's a poorly executed joke, and I'm not sorry for writing this comment. Otherwise, to put it mildly, your hatred towards this game is largely unjustified. I can understand disliking the game because the middle cases are pretty flawed, but labeling what's easily the most thrilling tutorial case in the entire series as "awful" points to blind hatred.
Let's take this one step at a time, in two parts since this comment was too long for CZcams.
PART ONE:
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"Magical Turnabout is practically the second coming of Turnabout Serenade, I wonder why the sudden change of heart?"
A change of heart would imply that I went from loving a case to hating it. That is not the case; I adored The Magical Turnabout from the moment I first played it, and hated Turnabout Serenade with a fiery passion from the moment I first played.
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"Machi not being physically built to fire the gun is loonot even that big of a deal because most of the case is spent trying to prove Daryan as the culprit"
You do realize that the assumption Machi would even be capable of firing the gun is the entire basis of the prosecution's case? The fact that _anybody_ would entertain the idea that Machi Tobaye - a fourteen-year-old kid whom they presume to be blind would've been able to fire a .45 caliber revolver without sending his shoulder flying into a different dimension. If anybody had used their brains for even a second, they would've realized that this was literally impossible. And if they realized that it was literally impossible, then they never would've arrested Machi, and thus this case would've never happened in the first place.
So yes, it is absolutely a big deal.
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"Plus I wouldn't put it past a clearly corrupt legal system to suspect Machi of murder."
A corrupt legal system would need an ulterior motive to accusing Machi, but that is never established. Anybody with a brain should've immediately realized that it could not possibly have been him - especially when _Ema Skye_ is on the case, someone who should've known to check the damn weapon for _fingerprints_ in the first place.
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"4-3 isn't even that great of a case imo, but your tone shift between these two cases is jarring even though they are very similar in concept."
You do realize that two stories can have the same concept with radically different executions, right? Farewell, My Turnabout and Turnabout Revolution both feature Maya's kidnapping as central elements, but one handles that concept _far_ better than the other one.
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"The Foreign Turnabout seeming simple at first and unraveling to be more complex? You literally just described Turnabout Trump right there."
That's a nice job at omitting the main reason I said this case was great, that being the fact that it manages to introduce:
-An entirely new setting
-An entirely new legal system
-The Divination Seance
-A defendant who starts out as just some random tour guide whom you connect with before he's even accused of murder
all in incremental stages so you never feel overwhelmed by the worldbuilding and doesn't resort to lengthy exposition dumps.
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" Like who would've guessed that YOUR OWN MENTOR would be the culprit of the case?"
Um...me. The second I found out that Phoenix deliberately chose a rookie over the supposed "best defense attorney in town" I predicted that he would be the true culprit.
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"I don't quite know how you can bash Kristoph Gavin for being cartoony "
It's quite simple, really: his motive is so unbelievably petty it's - almost - laughable. His motive literally amounts to "I didn't get picked to defend Zak, so now I must destroy Phoenix's life, destroy Zak's life - and eventually take it away - poison Drew Misham and nearly do the same to Vera." Having the plot progress simply because a character is evil for the sake of being evil is terrible writing. Even if we were to accept him trying to frame Phoenix as a justifiable response for not being picked, the rest of his actions are way too extreme for the situation - not to mention the fact that his motivations are wildly inconsistent, since he has absolutely no problem with Phoenix specifically requesting Apollo to be his defense attorney instead of Kristoph.
And that's on top of the fact that the way in which he carried out his petty revenge plot was moronic. Klavier had every reason in the world to question Kristoph as to how he knew that Phoenix had faulty evidence ready to present, and he only succeeded in doing this because Klavier luckily bought his story immediately - which is interesting since we later find out that Klavier always suspected Kristoph, yet he never did anything about it. Even aside from that, ruining Zak's life was a byproduct of getting Phoenix disbarred. He had absolutely no way of knowing that Zak was planning on fleeing the courtroom, so he couldn't control that. He only took action against him seven years after Phoenix was disbarred, long after Zak's life had already been permanently altered. He's evil just for the sake of being evil, which does not make for a very compelling villain.
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"Manfred is just a typical asshole who obsesses over his record"
No, he's the man responsible for Edgeworth's fifteen years of torment, and a prosecutor who had yet to be defeated for four full decades.
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"Dahlia isn't very different from Kristoph if at all. "
Yikes...
She permeates every case in the game, even ones in which she isn't directly involved with, and stands confidently as an ingenious villain for three of the games five case who strikes an incredibly personal chord with the main cast of heroes.
Kristoph lost a card game and threw a tantrum over it.
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"Ema wasn't assigned to forensics like she wanted to be and felt miserable being a normal detective. She was essentially condemned to the same life as Gumshoe, and Gumshoe had it rough. "
Double yikes...
The idea that she would've failed the exam in the first place is absolutely ridiculous considering her vast knowledge of techniques even before she went to college to actually study forensic science. But fine; let's entertain the idea that it makes sense for her to have failed - everyone makes mistakes, right? - why would she have given up and resorted to her current job? She never gave up on her sister when the odds were stacked against her, so why would she just say "well, guess that dream's dead" after failing the test a single time? But even if you think she would've given up, the fact that she acts the way she does is such a blatant contradiction of her personality from Rise from the Ashes that it's almost comical - almost. No matter how grim the situation was she always did her best to remain optimistic and positive, yet now she's transformed into Oscar the Grouch.
This is what we call "character assassination."
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""Nothing beats experience" is totally a line he would use. He's known for putting on a confident face, especially when he's bluffing, so he wouldn't waste any opportunities to boast about his experience against a rookie prosecutor after they made a mistake"
Triple yikes...
Throughout the original trilogy, Phoenix faced off against prosecutors with years' more experience than him - including Manfred von Karma, who hadn't lost in forty years. He proved that just because you have a lot of experience, that doesn't necessarily mean you will win by default. To see him act like he does in the 7 Years Ago flashback despite all this is jarring, to say the least.
And if your defense is "Well, he doesn't _actually_ mean those things: he's just trying to bluff with confidence!" then that falls flat on its face because the two most jarring lines:
"You're out of your league, rock-boy."
and
"I suppose there's no substitute for experience."
are both things he thinks to himself _in his head_ and he never says them out loud. There is no attempt to bluff or put on a show of confidence, these are things he genuinely believes.
This is, again, what we call "character assassination" and it's not even half the reason why Phoenix was destroyed in this game.
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PART TWO:
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"Also, I don't know how a game can kill Phoenix's character development when he didn't really have much character development to begin with. Between AA1 and AA3, there aren't many noticeable differences in his character aside from being more competent at his job."
First of all, learning to stand confidently on your own _is_ character development, and it's very interesting to see how you've attempted to diminish that.
Second, the issue is the contradiction of _character_ not character development. His values and beliefs have been compromised for the sake of telling this terrible story, and that is indefensible.
--------------------------------------------
"he still had connections in the legal world who wouldn't have any problems granting favors for him."
And yet he can't use any of those connections - none of which are established in the game, by the way - to fight for his attorney's badge back.
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"If the Apollo Justice hatred in the video is meant to be a joke, then it's a poorly executed joke"
Nice strawman. I've never joked about this game being awful. The only thing that was meant to be a joke was me creating two new tiers for Turnabout Corner, Turnabout Serenade, and Turnabout Succession. But my criticisms are not jokes. The reasons for this game being atrocious are not jokes.
--------------------------------------------
"Otherwise, to put it mildly, your hatred towards this game is largely unjustified."
I've explicitly broken down the problems with the plot and characters, and we haven't even scratched the surface in this comment chain. There are still tons more plot holes, character problems, and awful gameplay additions I could go over if you really wanted me to.
I don't know how you can honestly call my position unjustified.
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“labeling what's easily the most thrilling tutorial case in the entire series as "awful" points to blind hatred.”
I don’t know what to tell you at this point. I explicitly stated in this video that if it weren’t for the fact that this case introduces a destroyed Phoenix Wright, it would probably end up in the “Mediocre” tier since the mystery itself is slightly below average. I don’t know how you can miss this unless you’re lying by omission.
I have praised this game several times before. I’ve specifically cited:
-The improved fingerprint dusting as a result of the touchscreen
-The 3D camera angles and movements when you envision the crime scene
-The clever stamp twist during the first set of Turnabout Succession trials
-Phoenix's interactions with Trucy during the MASON System investigation
as positive elements of this game. If I were blindly hating it, I wouldn’t bother to highlight _any_ positives. I’ve broken down all the reasons why this game is awful many, _many_ times, and none of it stems from “blind hatred.”
Also, at the end of every case, I always said "Surely the next one can't be worse." I gave this game every chance in the world. I have never, once, ever played a game hoping it would be bad. That doesn't benefit me in any way. Why would I want something I spent $16 on to be bad?
We can discuss whether this game is good or bad, but to call my position “blind hatred” is fundamentally disingenuous.
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@@GamingMagic13 I’m a year late but oh well :)
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but I don’t think you or the original commenter are truly correct. Apollo Justice is a good example of a game that people either love or hate. The original commenter tried to shit on you for hating it, you tried to shit on them for liking it.
Take Phoenix, for example. Despite the fact that there is definitely some character assassination, it’s not completely unbelievable (I personally can definitely see him getting overconfident in court and then shrivelling to a husk of his former self when he does lose his badge).
Kristoph is a perfect antagonist for a game that’s loved or hated, since some people hate him for how petty he was, and some (like myself) enjoy that psychopathic aspect about him - one thing I will point out is how you bash Kristoph for his pettiness, but Manfred von Karma killed because of a penalty (but he is still my favourite villain of the series).
I will 100% concede that you have more knowledge of the game… I’ve only played through it once with a friend and watched cutscenes again on CZcams. I might be missing something crucial, but I really enjoyed the change in tone Apollo Justice took from the trilogy, and whilst the middle two cases are filler, Turnabout Corner is quite enjoyable for me, even if Turnabout Serenade can die in a hole.
Oh yeah, I don’t know why but I also love the soundtrack… that though is completely subjective.
TLDR: Neither of you are right, but neither of you are wrong. Apollo Justice is either a very subjective game or I’m just in a strange minority - that’s definitely possible since I liked JFA more that T&T. However, you can’t really say that the game is good or bad since a lot of what you say makes the game bad could make is good for some, and vice versa. The only two games in the series that I think are objectively good (even if they aren’t the best) are Trials and Tribulations and Dual Destinies, since they are, as far as I know, the least controversial in being ‘great’.
Oh by the way the video is really good even if I disagree in some parts!
I'm still playing TGAA1, but spending time with Herlock Sholmes made me realise the biggest issue with Beanix/AJ's Phoenix Wright: AA4 tried too hard to make Beanix into this "cool" and mysterious puppetmaster to the point that he feels much more like an untouchable Übermensch and just doesn't feel human at all as a result.
Compare that to Herlock Sholmes who's TGAA's resident trickster mentor, who despite his antics towards the game's cast, still felt very human especially with his interactions with Ryunosuke Naruhodo, as opposed to Beanix treating Apollo like a pawn.
It seems like I'm the only one who actually doesn't completely hate Apollo Justice. I actually really like Turnabout Trump, Turnabout Corner is ehhhh....and while the premise for the murder of Turnabout Serenade is interesting, it's executed so poorly and Machi being suspected just because there was a missed shot by the killer and the fact that it was previously established that firing a murder weapon of that caliber could destroy your shoulder is mind blowingly stupid.
I haven't played Succession yet...so I'm not sure how bad it is but considering I don't have that much hate for these cases, (other than Turnabout Big Top, that one legitimately pisses me off) I don't think I'll hate it.
You need to imagine what it's like being meekins then you can hate him or feel bad for him, although I forgot what he's like so I'll go check and analyze his personality and any other characteristics
1:06:14 the name was The Amazing Nine-Tails if I remember correctly
Now that you’ve played AAI2 and Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright are you going to make a small vid ranking those?
No; I rank the Investigations 2 cases in the finale of that LP, and I've been actively trying to forget about Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright for quite some time now.
Just curious why you don’t like Klavier Gavin. Is it because of his backstory? I would understand that completely, but I personally really liked the idea of a prosecutor that is more chill and less antagonistic. He was one of the only things about Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney that I actually really liked.
Because he’s a nothing character. His only defining character trait is that he’s an annoying rock star, and there’s nothing more to him than that. That would be fine if he were a one-off character for some random case, but he’s the prosecutor for the entirety of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. He needs to have a stronger character than what he has, and he simply doesn’t.
@@GamingMagic13 I get what you’re saying. I still liked him, but I guess his personality is pretty simple without a strong backstory behind him. Thanks for the reply.
3:41 I don’t know if this really counts as a logic error… but I don’t get how the game expects the player to know the location where the game takes place in to figure out the time difference between the courtroom and Paris is 9 hours.
This guy talking about how great puzzles are in Rise from the Ashes and i remember some certain jar
I was referring to that, as well as the the fingerprint analysis sections and certain additions to the trials. It definitely had a lot of great new gameplay additions.
Placing "Magic Turnabout" in S Tier. "I see you are also a man of culture
That moment when a game is so bad, you make two new tiers to emphasize your point.
Thanks for not sleeping on 1-5c it’s better than Goodbyes imo.
Can’t believe you said that giving Phoenix amnesia was creative though…
Alright uhh, since you said you wanted counter-arguments for your Apollo Justice video, I think I have one regarding Turnabout Corner.
Basically, I've done some research on whether or not it is possible for a car to run with a blocked exhaust pipe and the most common answer I've been able to find is that, if the muffler is 100% blocked, then the engine definitely won't run no matter what, not even for a couple of miles.
Of course, the panties stuck in the exhaust pipe wouldn't be enough to completely block it, but considering their size when compared to the small hole in the muffler, I'd say it wouldn't be crazy to believe that most cars engines wouldn't be able to run with such a clog put in place.
Aside from that, I've also found out that the shoeprint database is an actual thing and it contains more than 42000 items to identify footprints from crime scenes, so, with that in mind, I think it's quite likely that Ema would make use of such a thing. As for the "what happens if someone buys a new shoe", my memory might be faulty here but, wasn't the shoe used by Alita provided by the clinic she worked in? If that's the case, she wouldn't be able to just change it.
I find it extremely interesting that you chose to comment about the muffler on the video when I never even mention the muffler; I did that research myself and also came to that same conclusion. Sadly, that’s not enough to save the case.
As for the shoe print database, it doesn’t work in real life the way it works in game. A “shoe print database” in the real world is a database containing shoeprints from the actual products themselves, rather than a database linking the individual shoe prints to different people because obviously that doesn’t make any sense at all. And the “what happens if someone buys a new shoe” criticism is of the idea of the database itself because whatever shoe print is on file can be immediately nullified by simply purchasing a new pair of shoes, thus rendering the entire system pointless.
But thank you for providing me with more reasoning for why this game sucks so badly; it is very helpful.
@@GamingMagic13 Oh alright, yea I heard you criticize the muffler thing in another video and I thought you simply forgot to mention it here. That's all.
As for the shoeprint database, thanks for clearing up your point. Honestly the more I look into Turnabout Corner the faultier the case starts to appear.
idk if u still have the same opinions as u did like 3 years ago but i dont get the turnabout succesion hate! mason system was honestly pretty easy to navigate imo, you just have to know what your looking for which imo was pretty obvious! i can get like. not understanding it but i dont think its worse than a case like 2-1. and i dont get why everybody hates phoenix not being a lawyer anymore. like its not that bad i was sad when i first saw it but phoenix is SUCH a good character in apollo justice, you just have to get rid of pre game biases that "hes not the phoenix I KNOW 🥺🥺" it was honestly a fun way to shake up his character and was pretty well executed. apollo justice also has my favorite graphics of any aa game too, but thats just my opinion. while i agree with the stupid ass turnabout serenade "machi couldve fired the gun" i feel like once you get past that the case becomes soooo much better. like its so much better to play games without thinking "wow, this is so stupid bc X thing happened" like they have accepted it! so theres no use getting mad about it anymore even if it IS stupid. i personally like 4-2 and think outside of the panty shit its fun. tldr apollo justice is overhated bc people just cant accept that phoenix got disbarred for one game and became a good father and once you get over simple discrepancies the game is actually very fun !
i personally loved 4-3 and 4-2 but thats your opinion, nice list
In Pro-ZD's voice: Wait a minute.. I like Apollo Justice... You do know that there are pEopLE out there who LIKE this game, right? We *exist* and we will not stand for this sLaNDer-
But seriously though it's funny how divided the fandom is over this game, depending on what you look for in an AA case it's either the absolute best or an infuriating waste of time, there seems to be no in-between x)
Will you update this after your AAI2 lp?
I definitely won’t be remaking this entire video just to add five cases, but I will show where they would rank among the others in the finale on Sunday
5/30 I finally finished Apollo Justice today. Don’t know how I feel
I had a good positive laugh during the Apollo Justice section, you had me dying🤣🤣
Always nice to hear that people find my jokes funny :)
@@GamingMagic13 btw, have you ever played the professor Layton series? If not, do you intend to?
I have not; I know some of the games are on mobile, so I may check them out one day. However, to my knowledge not all of the games are available on mobile; only a select few.
@@GamingMagic13 yeah you are right, it is a shame not all of them are on mobile
@@GamingMagic13 Well, you played it
Turnabout sisters is good. But seeing red white sitting in the chair in the anime is hilarious. They didn’t do his arms well and made his legs disproportionate to his body and it looks like a meat canyon character
WATCHU NAAAAAAAMMMMME?
I’ve only played 1-5 of the core series and I’m currently doing the translation of aai2
You tend to talk about a prosecutor in the case they get introduced in however you said nothing about klavier when talking about turnabout corner or any case in apollo justice despite him being the prosecutor for the game (but then again what is there to be said about him anyway)
Eyad Amr You answered your own question. He’s a nothing character and his inclusion does nothing to affect the quality of Apollo Justice in any significant way, and therefore there was no reason to acknowledge his existence
@@GamingMagic13 Fair enough but one small thing if his existence in apollo justice wasn't significant in any way then why did you bother considering him a major issue in turnabout academy not that it matters a lot but I'm curious to know
You know, it's kinda sad that the Japan-only releases are so good... People have put AAI2 as the best game in the series because that game is phenomenal (it's basically Edgeworth's T&T), and the DGS series is pretty up there too. Then again, I like Turnabout Big Top and the entirety of Apollo Justice, so maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt XD
Still, I am certain you would've loved those games and seeing your opinion of T&T, I'm actually sad I won't get to hear how you feel about AAI2. It's my favorite game in the entire series and I only hope Capcom will release a port of it and actually release an official translation for it. If that ever happens (and _GOD_ I hope it does), it may even have something in there that tops 3-5 for you. ;)
I, too, hope that one day CAPCOM officially localizes Investigations 2. I've heard nothing but universal praise for that game.
I'm not gonna say much in specific, but yeah, that game freaking DESERVES the praise it gets. I could literally go for hours on end about how good it is. And honestly, with a high-quality release of the original trilogy having recently come out, I honestly don't think a port of the Investigations games is out of the question.
I didn't want Paul to be guilty in the civil trial. I wanted him to be a red herring villain.
As long as AA doesn't go for easy tropes or bad logic it can make great cases.
There's usually at least 1 good and bad case no matter the game.
Speaking of rankings... how would you rate the main prosecutors/rivals of the series?
1. Edgeworth, obviously
2. Godot
3. Franziska
4. Blackquill
5. Klavier Gavin
6. Nahyuta
For as much as I hate Klavier, Nahyuta is a much worse character.
@@GamingMagic13 Yeah... Klavier at least isn't a complete jerk... just annoying. (Well, there is also Agent Lang.. and even thought he isnt a prosecutor, still he fills the role of rival on Ace Attorney Investigations)
I completely forgot about him. Honestly, he was more a nuisance than anything else.
@@GamingMagic13 Understandable.
@@GamingMagic13 and Winston and Gaspen?
32:37 E for Edgeworth!
Here's my thoughts, countering a few of your negative points:
Case 1-2, Phoenix is a rookie. He makes rookie mistakes by showing his hand. Also, when you discover that your mentor is dead and her own sister is suspected checking the back of a piece of paper that is used to indict the supposed murderer is last thing you'd be doing (that being said, it *would* have been more awesome to have figured it out yourself, but I guess they had to introduce Maya's spirit channelling somehow).
For Case 2-2, you might know that information, but the judge definitely doesn't. I'm pretty sure attorney's testimony is not admissible in court (then again, I'm pretty sure attorneys are not allowed to simultaneously be witnesses either).
For Case 2-3, I definitely don't like this case either, BUT, I think the anime did a fantastic job with this case and somehow made this one of the better cases in the anime. As for what I liked, I really liked the pun Phoenix makes in this case and I really liked Acro, I think he makes for a really empathizable villain that you just can't help but feel sorry for. I also really disagree with your statement regarding Regina. Regina is a very sheltered and innocent who didn't understand death. That was to the point where she didn't even realize she had nearly killed Bat. She also clearly did not think the pepper-filled scarf would cause the lion to munch down on Bat because the lion is trained not to eat humans (which is a mistake most people could easily have done when you're not thinking about those two specific things). Finally, it'd be worth using suspension of disbelief every now and again. Sometimes, it's just worth enjoying a story for what it is.
For Case Investigations-5, the one guy who refused to die. This was a battle of the wills and it felt good to end him. That said, I can totally get you, man. That was a very difficult portion of the game and it drags on.
For Case 4-1, I thought the character you played as in the last game having been destroyed was a really cool idea. Not only that, but Phoenix himself is actually really cool. He sounds so smart (That said, when we do learn what destroyed Phoenix, that wasn't exactly the best payoff).
Regarding Case 5-3, people disliked that case!? I that one was awesome! An interesting villain, great witnesses, great premise, nice location, I don't see what there is to not like.
If I may say something for 5-5, that Mood Matrix against the Phantom was super creative. Faking emotions, forcing you to find the one, real, consistent, emotion? Pure. Genius.
For Case 6-5 part 1, the reason Apollo against Phoenix was made a slightly big deal was because they were from the same agency and therefore personally knew each other (even worse, one of them is the boss of the other) which is cause for concern because it could affect one side's ability to conduct a fair trial.
For Case 6-5 part 2, what a fantastic finale to a really fun series! Each character suddenly gained a whole lot of development and somehow the writers pulled it off without feeling rushed (Even Nahyuta, who I hated up to this point, but found myself liking by the end). It's just too bad that it seems like we won't get another Ace Attorney for a good while. (By the way, these two cases seriously should have been separate. Well, not that it really matters that much)
Speaking of things that are too bad, Miles Edgeworth 2 and The Great Ace Attorney are phenomenal that should have both been brought over to the US (Especially the Great Ace Attorney which is easily the best game in the series). Maybe someday Capcom will finally release both those games for us American audiences. I also hope they someday rerelease Phoenix Wright vs. Professor Layton, because that game was also fantastic.
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Turnabout Sisters: Regardless of what the piece of paper is, I'm going to check to see if there's something written on the back as well - especially since:
A. This could prove to be a key piece of evidence, so having all the information is essential.
B. If it was a receipt, it would also _feel_ like a receipt - as in, it would have the texture of cash register printer paper - which would make me think "hey, is this a receipt for something?"
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Reunion, and Turnabout: I have no idea what you're referring to here. What information do you think I know that the judge wouldn't?
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Turnabout Big Top: I haven't watched the anime, but regardless of whether it is portrayed well there it doesn't change the fact that the case is absolutely horrendous in the game. As for your individual points:
1. I'm not sure what pun you're referring to, but yes; generally speaking Ace Attorney puns are very clever
2. Yes, Acro is an empathetic villain.
3. She covered Bat's scarf in pepper because she knew that it would make him sneeze. If she knew that, then she would also know that getting that pepper anywhere near the lion while Bat's head was _inside the lion_ would be a monumentally terrible idea. Thus, if she saw Bat doing so, she should've stopped it immediately.
4. In regards to suspension of disbelief, within this context you're essentially just saying "turn your brain off and enjoy the show; don't think about how it's all completely broken." That's not how this works.
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Turnabout Ablaze: Oh no, it wasn't difficult at all; I cracked every contradiction first try. The problem is that it _never_ ended. When he finally broke down, my reaction "OH MY GOD IT'S FINALLY OVER!" as opposed to "YES! We got 'em! Take that!"
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Turnabout Trump: Well, at least you conceded that Phoenix's character was destroyed. That makes this much easier. Because taking a character who has previously established to be one way, and then completely and utterly eviscerate everything about his character that made him endearing and interesting - and to do it _off screen_ with no reasonable justification, that is horrendously indefensible writing.
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Turnabout Academy: I have been told previously that this case can be very polarizing.
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Turnabout for Tomorrow: Until you realize that if he had been faking his emotions the entire time - which he should've been doing the instant he realized that Athena had a _Mood Matrix_ - he likely wouldn't have been caught.
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Turnabout Revolution: You do realize that it's not unheard of for two attorneys from the same firm to be facing off against each other in court, right? Furthermore, you do realize that Phoenix & Edgeworth have worked together to find the truth countless times and have had absolutely zero issues doing so despite personally knowing each other, right?
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About Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Uh...you do realize that game _has_ been released in the US, right?
Channeling Mia would be better as a hints system rather than Deus Ex Machina
So many of your criticisms for AA4 are so insanely flawed, like it just sound like you literally don’t know what character development is??? Like I don’t know why you expect every character to act exactly like they did 7 years ago, it just makes literally no sense, and 4-1 is such an amazing 1st case like,,,have you seen the other first cases??? You’re telling me that 2-1 and 1-1 are better than 4-1??? Really?? I legitimately don’t think we played the same game
Nice strawman. I never said characters aren't allowed to change or develop. For instance, the Miles Edgeworth at the end of Trials & Tribulations is a much different person than the Miles Edgeworth at the the beginning of the first game and his character arc is masterfully written. The difference is that the road of development he underwent throughout the trilogy made logical sense and had a competent through-line. The way in which Phoenix & Ema are portrayed in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is a blatant contradiction of how they acted in the original trilogy with absolutely no justification, and that is absolutely indefensible.
@@GamingMagic13 you act as if a character acting differently than they did 7 years ago is an inherit flaw, when it’s literally just another form of character development. Like Phoenix literally lost his job because of a trial, why do you expect him to act exactly as he did when he was a lawyer?
@@troocywright6830 And we keep going with the strawmen. I specifically addressed the difference between character development and character assassination, and yet you completely ignore it. If you're going to attempt to defend this terrible game, then at least stop being disingenuous about it.
You say "Phoenix literally lost his job because of a trial, why do you expect him to act exactly as he did when he was a lawyer?" when that is not something I have ever claimed. Cut it out with this disingenuous argumentation; it's getting incredibly frustrating.
It seems as if you think that him being disbarred would suddenly cause him to lose any reasoning and common sense he had which doesn't make any sense at all. Him choosing not to challenge his disbarment is utterly ridiculous. Even if you don't think he would've directly gone to the bar association to challenge them, you know that Phoenix is friends with Edgeworth, right? The man who has previously demonstrated to be able to pull a lot of strings behind the scenes - such as managing to arrange the first Bridge to the Turnabout Trial so that Franziska was the prosecutor and the judge was someone who wouldn't recognize him - and has previously stood as a defense attorney for Phoenix? He took so many extra steps in this game to execute his plan that simply weren't required considering the resources he had available to him.
@@GamingMagic13 no the fact that you look at character development that is more complicated than just “I’m all sad and lonely but now I have my friends” and call it “character assassination” is utterly frustrating. There are so many amazing things about AA4 and you stick to the point of “oh well his plan was really complicated and I think it could be better” and use that to call AA4 a garbage game is so childish. Maybe he did challenge them....maybe he realized it was too much effort considering he’s taking care of his daughter now.....there’s so much potential that AA4 brings and you literally ignore all of it just to focus on your garbage points. It’s so exhausting. I love AA3 but I could go on a tangent about how Godot should’ve warned Phoenix about Dahlia, or how Godot treated Mia as an object to protect rather than a human being, or how the character we were supposed to sympathize with in 3-4 was a pedophile, but I still think it’s a great game because I don’t seek out minor flaws and treat them as if the entire game is flawed
@@troocywright6830
--------------------------------
"I’m all sad and lonely but now I have my friends” and call it “character assassination” is utterly frustrating."
Cut it out. I'm not kidding. The degree to which you are misrepresenting my position in a desperate attempt to defend this awful game is so utterly dishonest it's disgusting. I have never once said anything even remotely resembling that in regards to what character assassination.
--------------------------------
"There are so many amazing things about AA4 and you stick to the point of “oh well his plan was really complicated and I think it could be better” and use that to call AA4 a garbage game is so childish."
You are either an extremely dedicated troll, or the most deceitfully oblivious person on the planet. If you paid any attention to the goddamn video, you'd know that my reasons for hating this game extend far beyond that. There's:
-Phoenix & Ema's character assassination
-Every other character being either offensively boring or just offensive
-The endless number of plot holes and logical inconsistencies
-The stupid Perceive gimmick and its frustratingly limited FOV/inability to proceed through statements like a normal testimony
If it helps you understand that I'm being fair about this, I'll even list the things about this game that are actually good:
-The improved fingerprint dusting as a result of the touchscreen
-The 3D camera angles and movements when you envision the crime scene
-The clever stamp twist during the first set of Turnabout Succession trials
-Phoenix's interactions with Trucy during the MASON System investigation
My reasoning for why this game is objectively terrible and an indefensible creation is built on a lot more than just "his plan was overly complicated" but it sure does make my position easier to attack if you claim that's all there is to it.
The simple fact of the matter is that none of the plot holes are ever explained by the game, and Phoenix and Ema's portrayals are so blatantly contradictive to everything they stood for in the original trilogy that even a child could recognize it.
I'm done with this conversation. I have spent so much goddamn time talking about this terrible game. If you want to understand why this game is so fundamentally broken, feel free to browse the rest of this comments section for other people trying to defend the game - because you're certainly not the first.
But given how disgustingly disingenuous you have been in mis-representing my position on this game, I have absolutely no reason to engage in this discussion any further.
Where would you rank the great ace attorney cases now that they’ve been localised?
I will formally declare my ranking of the Great Ace Attorney cases at the end of my LP for each respective game.
@@GamingMagic13 no problem. I hear a lot of people are calling TGAA2 the best in the series along with T&T and AAI2 so hopefully you enjoy it.
Gyakuten Kenji 2 (investigations 2) is awesome the mastermind is the least unexpected unexpected
Wait 4-1 is so good tho
you missed an opportunity to call it: Appalling Justice Ace Attorney
[*]I REALLY hope he updates this. He's played the other games now, and I REALLY wanna know how he ranks the other games.[*]
This makes me cry (respectfully)
Me and my brother really like the ace attorney series I think it’s awesome and do you think if they ever make a English localization of miles Edgeworth 2 or the great ace attorney would you play it or not, if you were to play it would you make an LP or play it by yourself I’m just wondering in case you ever play those games as a English localization
As I've said numerous times in the past, if CAPCOM ever localizes Investigations 2 or The Great Ace Attorney games, I will absolutely cover them here on the channel.
I’m sorry I should pay attention more but I really look forward to your videos if a English localization comes out have a great day
Hopefully thet localize AAI2.I kinda understand DGS for the whole copyright thing, but AAI2 has basically no reason to not be localized.
i don't understand your problem with Klavier.
Because he’s a nothing character. His only defining character trait is that he’s an annoying rock star, and there’s nothing more to him than that. That would be fine if he were a one-off character for some random case, but he’s *the* prosecutor for the entirety of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. He needs to have a stronger character than what he has, and he simply doesn’t.
@@GamingMagic13 He has a strong character. I don’t know what you mean? He has a good backstory and defining personality traits? You could say the same thing about Francisca.
@@desmondcoppin591 Really? You want to compare Klavier to Franziska? Alright then, here we go:
Franziska may have opened by saying she only came to prosecute the "Reunion, and Turnabout" trial for revenge against Phoenix, but it is revealed by the end of Justice for All that the real reason she wanted to beat him was because he was the one defense attorney whom Edgeworth could not defeat. Her story in both the second and third games was much more focused on her relationship with Edgeworth than with Phoenix. After a lifetime of competing against him - as we saw in Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth - she thought this was going to be her chance to finally beat him at something, even though her father was no longer around for her to win his approval. The final airport scene in Justice for All was heartbreaking because we saw her true motivations and her desire to be perfect just like her father was, despite not believing she could ever be good enough to live up to his name. She also proved to be much more cunning than Edgeworth, even going so far as to present an illegal photo in Reunion, and Turnabout and track Gumshoe's position so she could keep tabs on the defense. In the final case of the game, she races to the courtroom to deliver the evidence that would ultimately seal EnGarde's guilty verdict solely because she believed in that above all else. This is absolutely a similarity between herself and Edgeworth, but the difference is that while Edgeworth ultimately came to the decision of pursuing the truth by himself, Franziska's motivation to change her ways came about because she couldn't bear the thought of losing her brother - as he said at the airport "If you say you are going to quit your walk down the prosecutor's path...then, this is where we part ways." Her arc centered around her relationship with Edgeworth and her doubt in her abilities to live up to the von Karma name.
Klavier is a rockstar who was too scared to confront his brother for seven years. That's literally all there is to it.
Oh, by the way, even if Franziska was a terribly written character - which she most definitely isn't - that would not suddenly make Klavier a good character. That belief is called "whataboutism" and it is a logical fallacy of the highest caliber.
I agree with everything you said about Apollo Justice, but I do enjoy Turnabout Trump, I hate what happened to Phoenix, but that aside I think it’s a very strong case, especially the twist with it being Kristoph, as it being something that first cases never do
Yeah I agree with what he said about apollo justice but I disagree about turnabout Trump not being good I think it’s a good case but the plot twist that kristoph is the killer should have been in the final case also don’t spoil anything I’m at the second case
Based list, but seeing Apollo Justice being thrashed upon that much doesn't give me good vibes, I only played the OG trilogy and want to continue. My OG ranking would be:
14. 2-1
13. 2-3
12. 1-1
10. 1-2
9. 3-3
8. 3-1
7. 1-3
6. 2-2
5. 1-4
4. 3-4
3. 2-4
2. 1-5
1. 3-5
my fav cases are the Bous cases, the Fey family cases and the last case of each game.
and if you used the dog he eats all of Larry's hot dogs if you use the fishing poll you fish up some pointless junk, I think it sets off Lotta's camera. but I forget since I used the dog. He barks at Larry and its funny. Besides Missal is iconic.
I'll tell you how I rank each case in your main lets plays but I to have to agree Apollo Justice 1 was my least fave game. Trials and Tribulations I did not like as much as you did. More details when I get to the lets plays. I enjoy the new Apollo games.
Really the last time you use ace attorney for reactions alog
I pretty much vaguely agreed with everything (other than the expected loose disagreement here and there, I think Big Top is OK, mildly dislike Rise from the Ashes, I think a bit more highly of AAI than you, and a bit lower of JFA, that type of stuff) until the Apollo Justice stuff which... Jeez. That's a LOT of vitriol for that game - I'm not the biggest fan of it, probably the worst AA game in my opinion, but I still like it overall. I'm clearly missing you giving your more detailed thoughts and a lot of context, but it's really surprising seeing how polarizing that game is. This isn't a "you're wrong, you have to like all the things I like!" comment, I just really did not expect that level of passionate hatred - was really taken off guard by it. Very fun watch nonetheless.
Yeah, I think he disconnect with Apollo Justice is that the game is trying to be different, and sometimes it just doesn't work. The main thing is "unlikeability", which is missing the point to call it a flaw. I like that the defendants and victims are sometimes just bad people, since it feels more realistic rather than every defendant being super good and harmless. I do think the game goes too far on that idea sometimes though.
I actually like the Circus case I can see why you don't like but just like case anyway
Just wanna say about the... Uh spoilers for Dual Destinies I guess
So, you said "The Phantom didn't have any emotions but why did he have a fully emotional brakdown?" Well, the thing is he had emotions he just learned to hide them, but doing this for that long of a time only made him more fragile as the emotions he hid started to build up, the only thing that countered that would be the phony characters he put up but that obviously wasnt enough. I don't like how they didn't explain his backstory more, but he probably had something happen that made him put up a façade and hide his emotions. Anyways, back to my point. These emotions that built up within him stated to flow out as his fragile shell broke, phoenix started to break it. At the very end he was demolished and all of the emotions he hid started overflowing an his world crumbled. That makes him a more dynamic and actually beatable character, and I like the Phantom for that reason.
It is expressly stated multiple times that the Phantom's entire character revolves around him having an extremely limited emotional range. There's an entire piece of evidence dedicated to that fact in the Court Record. And yet, the Phantom's final breakdown is running off pure emotions and fear when he isn't supposed to feel any. This is entirely contradictory to who the Phantom is supposed to be.
If you want specific evidence of this, I'll happily provide it: shortly before Apollo shows up in the final trial, Blackquill says ""A spy who experiences no emotions -- not sadness, nor anger... and naturally, no fear. He is the very definition of a phantom: a monster with no heart."
@@GamingMagic13 That is not completely true, the voice analysis may not show any results, but that is not because he literally doesn't have any emotions, it's because he surpresses them from every single aspect of his life. Even us in our lives surpress emotions to do things, we surpress out fear before an exam to have less stress, or surpress our hapiness when attending a funeral. This is what the phantom does, just on an unbelievable scale but like I said, it also has a counterbalance, the emotions are building up inside him. The evidence of this is the mood matrix we do the last time, it shows confused emotions in his voice but because he's breaking up, he has one consistent emotion showing up on the matrix. Him not waanting Athena to use the matrix also ties to this in my opinion. He wanted to be a monster with no heart to live out his life, but that's not how a human works.
@@-emir5484 "Emotional output of this voice extremely weak compared to typical voices. Subject deemed to have unique psychological makeup with almost no emotional fluctuation."
If you're wondering what this is, it's the psychological profile of the Phantom taken straight from the game itself.
This ain't the hill to die on; the facts are not on your side here.
@@GamingMagic13 That analysis is only on the VOICE. The voice doesn't reflect the emotions he really is feeling because he is hiding them. This report only talks about the voice, "Emotional OUTPUT of this voice is extremely weak compared to typical voices" this doesn't mean he isn't feeling anything inside, he just isn't outputting what he's feeling. "Subject deemed to have unique psychological MAKEUP with almost no emotional fluctuation" a makeup is well, a cover, a façade. A façade isn't the actual face, just like how his voice isn't reflecting his actual emotions.
@@-emir5484
Allow me to direct you to a line from Edgeworth: "The ability to read emotions from speech, and the subject of her mother's research." Her line of work is directly reading the emotions themselves.
Also, makeup: "the composition or constitution of something." Enough said.
Again: not the hill to die on.
when u realize turnabout stolen is supposed to be easy
Before I watch the vid, I predict the great ace attorney cases go straight to top tier...
EDIT: FUCK
i would agree with u there tho
wait .... u didn't edit the comment though
@@GTNTAnimations Objection THEME INTENSIFIES
@@GTNTAnimations
This guy is Miles Edgeworth irl
objectively aa4 is really bad but. i dont give a shit, i still had fun w it. (one thing ill disagree with is the ranking of turnabout trump but im not gonna gush here about it since a lot of other people have done it better)
And that’s perfectly fine; you’re allowed to enjoy bad games. I’ve never wanted to take anyone’s personal enjoyment away; just so long as we can acknowledge the game’s objective lack of quality.
I don’t get why you believe the characters were making a big deal out of Apollo vs Phoenix.
If I recall correctly, all that happened was that the judge was curious as to why Apollo was going up against his BOSS. It had nothing to do with friendship. Even if you say that it’s common for situations like that to occur IRL, it’s not something the game spends a lot of time dwelling on. If you’re actually referring to trucy and Ema’s rather strong opinions on the matter then you’d be right normally, but I feel in this case it would be in character for both to act like that.
TRUCY: "Daddy! Apollo! No! We can't have our agency's talent competing against each other!"
------
TRUCY: "I'm just worried things will never be the same between Daddy and Apollo..."
------
JUDGE: "Hmm...so then, you two have had a falling out?"
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JUDGE: "I see...Well, here's to hoping this has no adverse affect on your working relationship."
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EMA: "You owe Mr. Wright an apology. After all he's done for you, you have some nerve!"
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Just to name a few examples.
@@GamingMagic13 I actually updated my comment in the time you posted your comment.
Thanks for the quick reply though I’m kind of stunned.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s a big deal either way because their remarks don’t even affect the plot. And like I said, ema and trucy both have their personality quirks and I don’t think it’s out of the ordinary for them to act like that. Ema siding with Wright, trucy not liking the idea of competition...
Also, expecting realistic reactions from characters in an ace attorney game is rather ridiculous. This is the same series where you cross examine a parrot, a whale, get assaulted in the middle of a courtroom by a psycho with a whip and more...are you seriously going to get pissed because the game decided to be slightly more dramatic with its setting?
Also, failing the case DOES cause Apollo and wright’s relationship to deteriorate in the losing dialogue, due to the personal stake that Apollo has in the case.
@@callinater6133
-------------------------
"Ema siding with Wright, trucy not liking the idea of competition..."
My problem isn't that that the "side" they take is contradictory to their personality. In fact, that makes perfect sense:
-Ema and her sister were saved by Phoenix. She has no reason to side with Apollo
-Athena has worked closely with Apollo from the moment she arrived at the agency, and that bond is not one to be easily broken.
-Trucy is both Apollo's brother and Phoenix's adoptive daughter, meaning that her decision to not take any sides makes perfect sense.
The issue is that the game makes this big dramatic deal about how insane it is for two lawyers from the same firm to be battling each other in court, despite the fact that _being lawyers is their job_ and it has no bearing on their personal friendship. It seems like a massive overreaction for no reason, when all you need to do to make a big deal about it is focus on the fact that Apollo is facing off against *the legendary Phoenix Wright*
-------------------------
"Also, expecting realistic reactions from characters in an ace attorney game is rather ridiculous. This is the same series where you cross examine a parrot, a whale, get assaulted in the middle of a courtroom by a psycho with a whip and more...are you seriously going to get pissed because the game decided to be slightly more dramatic with its setting?"
1. This standard is ridiculous. If, as a result of winning a case, Phoenix took all his clothes off and did the chicken dance in the middle of the courtroom, and I said "that's a ridiculous thing for him to have done" would your response be "expecting realistic reactions from characters in an ace attorney game is rather ridiculous?"
2. You've created a false parallel. Disregarding the fact that animals have been called to the stand in real-life court cases before, saying "silly things have happened before" doesn't equate to "characters regularly have nonsensical reactions to things."
3. I was not "pissed" because of this. The civil trial becoming a murder trial certainly pissed me right the hell off - on top of the fact that they straight-up ripped off Farewell, My Turnabout - but I don't know how you've arrived at this conclusion.
4. I never said "case dramatic, therefore case bad." I explicitly state in the video that having Apollo face off against Phoenix "sets up incredible emotional stakes." I was very much in favor of the fact that they were going to test Apollo's skillset by battling a legend in court. It's the fact that the game blows this way out of proportion.
@@GamingMagic13 that comparison is ridiculous. Comparing character remarks to Phoenix doing a naked dance is not even in the same dimension. Even if you wanna call their reactions over dramatic they are still very much tame compared to some of the more ridiculous things this series has pulled. And like I said, you’re criticising something that’s COMPLETELY inconsequential to the story and act like it drags the case down. You could literally remove those lines from the game and nothing would change. That criticism in particular just stuck out as needlessly nitpicky.
I never suggested you think being dramatic makes a case bad, but this was a decision that was clearly made to add drama. Don’t like it, ignore it - because it’s completely irrelevant anyway and is merely a few lines of dialogue in total.
@@callinater6133
----------------
"that comparison is ridiculous. Even if you wanna call their reactions over dramatic they are still very much tame compared to some of the more ridiculous things this series has pulled."
_Your_ defense was "their reaction was ridiculous because expecting realistic reactions is ridiculous." _You_ said that. Not me. I'm simply pointing out how untenable of a position that is.
Also, you're trying to drag this conversation into the realm of "lol crazy things happen" when that's not where this stemmed from. I already explained how their reactions to this event and the examples you mentioned are not equivalent in the slightest, yet you seem to have ignored that.
----------------
"And like I said, you’re criticising something that’s COMPLETELY inconsequential to the story and act like it drags the case down."
Okay, reverse card: you're acting as if this is the only criticism I have of this entire case, as well as ignoring the fact that I ranked this case _in the top tier_ on the list.
----------------
"I never suggested you think being dramatic makes a case bad"
Are you kidding me? Remember earlier, when you said this?:
"are you seriously going to get pissed because the game decided to be slightly more dramatic with its setting?"
----------------
That was a very interesting video. I agree with most of it, but of course some opinions are different. I made a ranking list by my own some time ago, here it is from worst to best:
Mediocre:
35.) AA2 The Lost Turnabout (2-1)
- my least favourite case for similar reasons that you already listed.
34.) AAI Turnabout Visitor (I-1)
- I didn't enjoy it that much, a bit underwhelming and not too exciting.
33.) AAI The Kidnapped Turnabout (I-3)
- In general, I consider AA Investigations as the worst AA game.
32.) AA1 The First Turnabout (1-1)
- Neat introduction case, but very short and not too special.
31.) AA4 Turnabout Serenade (4-3)
- There are so many plotholes + rewatching the vid 10x is annoying.
30.) AAI Turnabout Airlines (I-2)
- I like the setting and the culprit, still one of the weaker cases.
29.) AA5 The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2)
- I wish the culprit wasn't shown from the very beginning.
28.) AA2 Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2)
- Good & emotional resolution, I didn't like everything though.
27.) AA2 Turnabout Big Top (2-3)
- Yeah, annoying characters and not too logical, but somehow I still enjoyed it, especially the ending and in general the setting.
Good:
26.) AAI Turnabout Ablaze (I-5)
- Some nice plot twists, but still easily the worst final case in the series.
25.) AA1 Turnabout Samurai (1-3)
- I like the story, yet the pacing is not too good and drags on.
24.) AA5 Turnabout Countdown (5-1)
- Nice introduction case (I love the mood matrix & Athena).
23.) AA4 Turnabout Corner (4-2)
- Not the best case, but a very funny one, I had good laughs.
22.) AA6 The Foreign Turnabout (6-1)
- A pretty good and comprehensive 1st case.
21.) AA3 Recipe for Turnabout (3-3)
- Challenging and engaging!
Very Good:
20.) AA1 Turnabout Sisters (1-2)
- This is so high mainly due to the story importance and shock value.
19.) AA4 Turnabout Trump (4-1) - Fresh and surprisingly unexpected resolution, which I enjoyed.
18.) AA3 The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - Very good case, good mystery.
17.) AA6 Turnabout Time Traveller (6-6 - DLC) - Enjoyable, good fanservice.
16.) AAI Turnabout Reminiscence (I-4)
- By far the best case from AAI and the only really good one.
15.) AA5 The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4)
- That short case was pur joy!
Amazing:
14.) AA3 Turnabout Memories (3-1)
- Easily the best introduction case in the series, I was so hooked!
13.) AA6 The Magical Turnabout (6-2)
- One of the most enjoyable investigation segments ever!
12.) AA3 Turnabout Beginnings (3-4)
- Nostalgic, intense, shocking, heartbreaking, amazing!
11.) AA6 The Storyteller Turnabout (6-4) - The only case I played 4 times due to how enjoyable it was!
10.)
AA4 Turnabout Succession (4-4)
- Not the best final case, but still a lot of suspense & mystery.
9.) AA6 The Rite of Turnabout (6-3)
- Such a good and long case with many twists.
Outstanding:
8.) AA5 Turnabout Academy (5-3)
- Very enjoyable, great setting, a bit cheesy, but that's ok!
7.) AA5 Turnabout Reclaimed (5-6 - DLC)
- I love every single character and the awesome resolution. Imo the best "non-final case" in the series!
6.) AA2 Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4)
- Amazing story! This case alone carries the otherwise mediocre JfA so hard.
5.) AA1 Rise from the Ashes (1-5)
- The hardest and longest case ever, awesome story & characters!
4.) AA5 Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5)
- One of the most shocking plottwists, I wish the resolution was a bit better, though.
3.) AA1 Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4)
- A true classic, I love the story and the epic showdown.
Almost perfect:
2.) AA6 Turnabout Revolution (6-5)
- I was hooked from the beginning to the end. So many great plottwists and shocking moments, simply outstanding!
1.) AA3 Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - This is the pinnacle and the perfect ending is the reason why this is my favourite case ever.
Oh and here is my game tier list:
Almost perfect:
Spirit of Justice (This game totally surprised me by how good the story, character writing and plot twists were - only real negative is the lackluster prosecutor).
Trials & Tribulations (Amazing conclusion to the original trilogy with great flashback cases).
Outstanding:
Dual Destinies (I have a soft spot for this game, I enjoyed every second of it despite some minor flaws).
Very Good:
Ace Attorney 1 (Admittably, some sections drag on a little bit and don't have the best pacing, but the final cases are sooo good).
Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney (I love the cast of characters and the surprisingly dark story).
Good:
Justice for All (One of the weaker games for sure, the first three cases were a bit underwhelming, the final case saves the game, though).
Apollo Justice (Also one of the weaker games due to some logic flaws and not having one really outstanding good case. I'd still consider it good, since I enjoyed playing it).
Mediocre:
Investigations 1 (The only game I didn't quite enjoy that much, the story was not that interesting, there are hardly any good plottwists and the only really good case in the game is the flashback case).
Oh, hey, its my comment ^^
Every case in JFA is perfect, but Big Top is the best case in the series.
DID H JUST PUT 4-1 in AWFUL TIER???
Yes, yes I did.
@@GamingMagic13 I personally think it should be at good or mediocre i am currently at the second case for apollo justice and I think the case is boring asf so far but I did think the first case was good
bro had the balls to put turnabout trump in awful and magical turnabout in outstanding.
Perfect time 👌
5-5 is outstanding IMO. The Phantom is a great villain, and you’re foreshadowing criticism is completely invalid. In 5-2, Jinxie calls him a “ghost” and says he is fake, in 5-3, Blackquill talks about his distrust with Fulbright, in 5-4, he gets Athena accused and blatantly forged evidence, and in 5-5 the entire case was foreshadowing it. And the Fulbright gut punch wasn’t a gut punch, it was meant to confirm that Fulbright is pretending to be someone that he is not.
Perhaps I should’ve rephrased “foreshadowing” as “actually substantive clues that would logically lead to his true identity.”
Also, you missed the point of what i was saying. There was no tragic reveal because we never knew the real Fulbright. It wasn’t a case of “the person you thought was good was evil all along” and it wasn’t a case of “the person you connected with was killed and replaced with an evil mastermind” it was a case of “you never knew this person at all actually, so any connection you thought you had meant nothing at all.”
I’m not the first person to document the many other ways the Phantom could’ve been handled infinitely better than he was; those are just some of the possibilities.
@@GamingMagic13 I don’t think you understand the point of his villain. First of all, Jinxie called him fake and a ghost most definitely foreshadows his identity, and Blackquill hinting at distrust along with Fulbright forging evidence clues him at being a villain. Second of all, the gut punch with Fulbright was supposed to be that the man you thought you had good bonds with was fake all along.
@@pickleioi9058 Okay, reverse card: I don’t think you understood my comment since you basically just said the exact same thing to me again.
@@GamingMagic13 Alright man, I don’t see the point in furthering this conversation. I’d like to see your TGAA opinions now that it’s been localized though.
@@pickleioi9058 Lucky for you, I have full LPs of both games available on the channel:
TGAA: czcams.com/play/PLsULwTqrDVA-RXGzqIbXOqerCxRZua-cA.html
TGAA2: czcams.com/play/PLsULwTqrDVA_G0G5aZ7ow-zVEzCrMfcgk.html
I like 2-3 case,bro
You can like it as much as you want; it’s still a terrible case.
Rise is the best trilogy case
very nice
Hobo Phoenix best Phoenix
Trials and Tribulations is the best game!
I love Godot!
Dahlia is the best villain!
I agree with the first two statements, Dahlia not so much. Two words: Damon. Gant.
@@bannedcommander2932 I see neither of you have played Investigations 2
I actually really like Apollo Justice’s last case
You're allowed to like whatever you want; it's still a terrible case.
@@GamingMagic13 I mean the game is overhated for very very stupid reasons, but you do you.
@@queencancerous5332 I'm sure there are people who hate the game for stupid reasons, but the criticism I levied against it in this video are incredibly detrimental to its quality.
Alright Update:
Turnabout Trump: Fucking fantastic, I love new Phoenix unlike most people. Kristoph is also great
Turnabout Corner: Very boring except for Trucy
Turnabout Serenade: Fantastic murder idea, but presented very bad. I like Lamiroir and Klavier in this case but the circumstances under which Machi is accused are dumb as shit, and Daryan is so obviously the villain
Turnabout Succession: I like the defendant and the way the story is, but for a final case, it just feels so...underwhelming.
1-2,3-1,3-4 and any case in dual destinies except the second case(this one is mid),dlc(this one is good),and the third case(this one is great) are incredibly overrated
especially 3-4,that case is so boring,with a defendant that is straight up a p-word,killing terry fawles is legit the only crime dahlia commited that i did not hate,also the mystery is uninteresting,this is literally a first case,but worse,because its in the middle of the game,and slows down the pacing even more than recipe,but at least recipe is funny,has great characters(except for the chef),has a interesting mystery that actually requires me to think,unlike beginnings,in which i was just asking myself the entire time,"when will they answer the mysteries of the first case",beginnings is such a stain in what would otherwise be a great game
If i had to rank the games it would be like this
Ace attorney:great=brought down by turnabout sisters
Justice for all:good=brought down by turnabout big top
Trials and tribulations:great=brought down by turnabout overratedness
Apollo justice:good=it may not reach the same peaks as the original triloly,like rise from the ashes(my favorite case in the series),farewell my turnabout and bridge to the turnabout,but it also does not reach the same lows,like turnabout sisters,turnabout big top and turnabout overratedness
Ace attorney investigation 1:good=this game is all over the place,visitor is mid,airlines is great,kidnapped is terrible,reminiscence is good and ablaze is amazing
Investigations 2:outstanding=this game just gets better with each case,target is a fine introduction,imprisoned and inherited are good,forgotten is the best case outside of the phoenix trilogy and the great turnabout is great
Dual destinies:good=this games starts out kinda mid with countdown and monstrous,reclaimed is good,academy is the peak of the game,cosmic is alright,and turnabout for tomorrow is good
The layton crossover game:mid=it starts out with the worst tutorial case in the series,has a forgetable second case,has a decent third case and has an alright finale
Spirir of justice:great=the tutorial would be in high c-tier for me,if only the game didnt shout "I HOPE YOU DIE IN A FIRE" everytime phoenix breathed,the magical trunabout is great,rite is good,storyteller is so close to being bad,but its saved by uendo and blackquill,also i hate the culprit of this case,revolution has a fine first half,but the second half is legit the best mainline case in the stuff happens i guess trilogy
The great ace attorney 1:good=case 1 is good,i actually dont mind case 2,case 3 is great,case 4 is saved by soseki and the mystery,case 5 is great
The great ace attorney 2:outstanding=it has the best tutorial in the series,an good second case,the peak of the game in case 3,an alright set-up case 4 and case 5 which is sadly brought down by "haha sholmes ex machina go brrrr"
Some of the Apollo justice ace attorney cases were shit but the first case was great and Athena and Apollo are up there with Edgeworth and the judge as my favourite characters, also the rock star guys pretty cool
So as far as my opinions compared to yours I mostly agreed for the original trilogy, apart from recipe for turnabout being a bit too high considering that Furio Tigre was a pretty poor villain (way too obvious although comedic).
And then you get to investigations and I understand its subjective but I loved shi long lang and callisto yew as well as all the characters in investigations (detective badd being one of my favourites).
And then apollo justice comes along. How long has it been since you gave played it? I understand that how they treated phoenix's character probably tainted your view of the game (although I personally liked it) and turnabout serenade (upon replaying it recently) makes no sense but turnabout trump is one of the best tutorial cases by far for me at least. They have a great twist of your mentor being the true criminal, a tight case with good logic and the mystery of what happened to phoenix hanging over the whole case. Creating an entire low tier just for this trial and corner is an insane overreaction.
I realy liked corner with the relationship between wocky and his family as well as trucy, realy liked her and apollo's relationship and developing the mystery around phoenix as well as the actual mystery, I thought all the smaller crimes linking together worked great with a genuine reason for stealing the stand.
Again, as said before, turnabout serenade is terrible. Full stop.
The most confusing rank for me is by far turnabout succession. The culmination of phoenix's 7 year long revenge, the ingenious poisoned stamp (a trap paused for 7 years) was for me one if the most creative crimes, and so many bombshells. I guess I can see that kristoph has a weak motive although I wouldn't say it ruins his character and I don't understand why you hate klavier. Smart, a strong moral compass, conflicted over his brothers crimes, and also a character with great chemistry with apollo.
In conclusion I think you just got rubbed the wrong way by phoenix's character which I can understand although I don't agree with and it dragged down your overall opinion. A lot of your complaints are tiny nitpicks blown out of proportion and I don't think you realy gave the game a chance for you to understand the characters and what the game is trying to do.
It has been seven months, almost to the day, since I finished recording my Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney LP. And yes, my attitude towards the game was absolutely affected by finding out that they had destroyed Phoenix's character - as is to be expected. The proof of this is that I was very upset during episodes 1 & 2 of my LP - the Turnabout Trump episodes - but at the very end of the case I said that the mystery itself was semi-decent. I was in a bad mood because I just found out Phoenix's character had been annihilated, but I was still able to assess the case objectively.
However, that does not mean my assessment of the entire game was blinded by this. I'm happy to see that you acknowledge that Turnabout Serenade is bad at the very least, but my assessment of the quality of the story and gameplay was completely unaffected by the fact that Phoenix's character is destroyed. I _wanted_ this game to be good. I had hopes that, in spite of the fact that Phoenix has been completely annihilated, they would still present cleverly constructed mysteries with interesting characters. They didn't. At all.
Here are the game's major problems:
GAMEPLAY:
-Perceive is a pain to use. The FOV is too limited and the inability to progress through the testimony one statement at a time creates an extremely frustrating experience.
-Ema's new investiagation techniques are unnecessarily gimmicky, make zero sense story-wise (a shoe print database!?!?!?!?), and are also a pain to use
STORY
(For the sake of keeping this comment within the word count, I have omitted the minor plot holes and am focusing on the major issues. I also won't mention the story errors in Turnabout Serenade since you've admitted that case is bad)
Turnabout Corner:
-Phoenix should not be able to survive - or should at least have severe head trauma - after _flying thirty feet through the air and crashing headfirst into a lamppost_
-Phoenix shouldn't have been able to adopt Trucy in the first place considering he was disbarred for forging evidence, and doesn't have enough income to support the family.
-At least one person in the courtroom should've seen that The Amazing Mr. Hat wasn't actually a person
-To my knowledge, the fact that the tailpipe was partially obstructed would not have prevented it from starting. The car may not run well, but it would at least start.
Turnabout Succession
-Phoenix should not be able to be the head of a newly formed jury system after being disbarred for forging evidence
-The nurses and doctors should've heard the gunshots
-They would know the exact time of death because the victim was hooked up to a heart-rate monitor
-Nobody's questioning how Klavier is so prepared to deal with Phoenix's forgery, including having a witness in his back pocket ready to call?
-Zak, Trucy's father, just leaves her alone?!!?!?
-There was no point in Zak hiring a lawyer when he planned on vanishing no matter what the outcome of the trial was.
-It is revealed that Zak had the real page the whole time and didn't give it to Phoenix. WHY!?!
-The whole MASON System is entirely pointless because all Phoenix had to do to accomplish his mission was reach out to Edgeworth for help since - you know - he is a _prosecutor_
CHARACTERS
-Phoenix & Ema's character assassinations are unforgivable
-The defendants are either terrible people (Wocky) or completely uncooperative when it comes to telling the player vital information (Phoenix & Vera). Machi's slightly different; he was nice, sure, but by the time we were actually able to speak to him we had already solved the entire mystery so what was the point?
-Why do I hate Klavier? His rock'n'roll antics were annoying to deal with and he's the least developed prosecutor. There's nothing interesting about him that isn't also annoying.
-Every other characters isn't developed enough for the player to like them or hate them.
I gave this game all the chances in the world. I kept hoping "maybe the next case won't be bad" or "maybe they'll reveal something that makes Phoenix's character actually make sense" but the cases kept getting worse and the reasoning for Phoenix's disbarment were ridiculous. And just so we're clear, if the game replaced Phoenix Wright with some random defense attorney who was disbarred, it would still be a bad game. His character assassination may be this game's biggest problem, but his removal from the story would not fix the game's various other problems.
In other words, I was not blinded by the fact that Phoenix's character was ruined. The game just sucks.
P.S. The purpose of me creating two new tiers for the Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney cases was for comedic effect.
@@GamingMagic13 I understand where you are coming from but I still disagree, for me a lot of the complaints about the cases you point out are small logic holes like how phoenix survived the car crash and many problems that aren't realy related to the core crime. I could do this with many trials, let's take 2-4 for example. How did de killer kidnap her in a busy hotel, how did gunshoe survive crashing at high speed, how does engarde summon brandy, how are spirit mediums even allowed in a court of law, they phone and set up a radio to de killer and they can't track it, they actual believe testimony from a contract killer? That's the kind of complaints you have with most of the cases and you could probably say that the problems I pointed out were incorrect and I could probably go through each one and say that yours aren't valid but where does that get us because every trial in the series has these little faults, the actual core mystery and the core plot is much more important and I believe that's what your overlooking. It feels like your looking for reasons to hate the cases. I thought appolo justice had some of the smartest cases in the series like the stamp murder paused for 7 years and realising in turnabout corner that the shooter was in the stand. As for the story I can understand that klavier is probably subjective, I can see that his persona could be annoying, but I'm not sure how ema was character assassinated? She's still the same science obsessed person perhaps just a little more mature.
Now the main point of contention in apollo justice is of course phoenix and I personally thought it was genius. I understand it seems like it makes no sense but you have to remember it's been 7 years. He lost everything he had, of course he became a different person, but what I love about this was how phoenix felt like a force to be reckoned with. For 7 years he had been planning under the guise of the whole pianno playing persona and you can see this from the first trial. His core desire to find the truth is still there, its just his naivety is gone, he's always 1 step ahead. I understand how seeing him like this still feels like a gut punch but that is the entire point. The whole game is about betrayal and mistrust, betrayed by your mentor gavin and finding that you can't even trust Phoenix Wright. I wouldn't say it's a character assassination, it's simply an evolution. They could have kept the exact same rookie phoenix and his animations but they dared to try something different and I thought it worked amazingly. I guess we can agree to disagree with this game because id probably put it at least In the good tier, but personally in the great tier.
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"Phoenix managing to survive something that should've killed him is a small logic hole."
Do you _need_ me to explain how ridiculous it is to say that _a character surviving something that would've killed them_ is a small logic hole?
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"you could probably say that the problems I pointed out were incorrect."
You're right, I could very easily do that and definitively establish all of them as invalid. However, even if I were unable to do so, that would not suddenly make Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney a good game. It would mean that both games have major plot errors. So, if you want to defend the game as good, you need to actually defend against the points I bring up, not just say "Well this other game has plot holes too (regardless of whether or not they're accurate)"
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"the actual core mystery and the core plot is much more important and I believe that's what your overlooking"
The plot holes I pointed out all directly relate to the core mystery. Let's break down why each issue I mentioned breaks the story:
Turnabout Corner:
-If Phoenix were unable to adopt Trucy, she wouldn't be in the game. This sounds like an obvious statement, but without her, Apollo would've lost the Turnabout Corner trial. The only reason he doesn't lose is because she pulls out The Amazing Mr. Hat. Speaking of which...
-If the people in the courtroom realized that Mr. Hat wasn't actually a person holding Trucy hostage, Apollo would've lost the trial and Alita would've gotten away with the crime.
-The final contradiction of the case centers around the car being able to start. The question the prosecution brings up is "Why use the stand if the car runs perfectly fine?" The answer is "the car couldn't start because the tailpipe was clogged." However, based on the reasoning I previously presented the car should be able to start even if it wouldn't run well. If the car was functioning properly, then Apollo's claims fall flat and he loses the trial.
Turnabout Succession:
-If Phoenix is unable to lead the jury system, Kristoph never gets exposed for his master plan since he refuses to go to Edgeworth for help for whatever reason
-If the nurses and doctors heard the first gunshot - which they absolutely should've - they would've seen that Zak shot the clown and that Magnifi was still alive. If they heard the second gunshot - which again, they absolutely should've - then they would've discovered Valant at the scene of the crime and not Zak, fundamentally changing the entire case.
-Since he was, in fact, hooked up to a heart-rate monitor, there should've been no confusion whatsoever as to the time of death which would've made solving the case exponentially easier.
-If people were suspicious of Klavier's knowledge of the forgery, there would've been an investigation and Phoenix may not have ultimately been disbarred - which is the _inciting incident of this entire game_
-About Zak Leaving Trucy: Perhaps I miscategorized this criticism. It's not a plot hole, because it's not impossible for Zak to abandon his daughter and leave her entirely on her own. I should've put this in the "Character" section because it makes absolutely no sense for him to do that since _he is her father_
-If Zak never hired a lawyer, Phoenix would never have been disbarred. Again, that is the _inciting incident of the entire game_
-If Zak had given Phoenix the real page - which he had in the courtroom lobby - then _Phoenix would never have been disbarred because he wouldn't have presented forged evidence_ And, once again, **this is the inciting incident of the entire game**
-If Phoenix simply reached out to Edgeworth for help in seeking revenge against Kristoph, this whole game never needed to happen in the first place.
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"I'm not sure how ema was character assassinated?"
This is an easy one. The idea that she would've failed the exam in the first place is absolutely ridiculous considering her vast knowledge of forensic investigative techniques way before she even began to study the subject. Even if you still think it's reasonable for her to have failed, why would she have given up and resorted to her current job? She never gave up on her sister when the odds were stacked against her, so why would she just say "well, guess that dream's dead" after failing the test a single time? But even if you think she would've given up, her attitude towards Apollo & Trucy is such a blatant contradiction of her personality from Rise from the Ashes that it's almost comical - almost. No matter how grim the situation, she always did her best to remain optimistic and positive, yet now she's transformed into Oscar the Grouch.
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"Now the main point of contention in apollo justice is of course phoenix and I personally thought it was genius"
Oof. Alright, let's break down Phoenix's character in this game:
-"of course he became a different person" Yes, people change over time, but if you establish a character to be one way in one game, you cannot just transform him into a completely different person in a different game without justifying the transition. Let's say I write a story about a guy - we'll call him Steve - who loves to play soccer with all of his heart and it matters more to him than anything else. He bonds with his teammates and leads the team to victory in a championship and is on track to become a legendary soccer player. Now let's say I write a sequel to this story that begins with Steve throwing every soccer ball he has in the garbage can and ripping up his soccer uniform, proudly proclaiming "I HATE SOCCER!" Does this make logical sense? No, it doesn't, because it is a blatant contradiction of his character from the first story with no justification whatsoever. That is what happened with Phoenix in this game.
-"phoenix felt like a forced to be reckoned with" Spoken as if the Phoenix from the original trilogy wasn't someone to be feared from the perspective of the criminals?
-"for 7 years he had been planning under the guise of the whole piano playing persona" And that's exactly the issue. Being Scooby-Doo for seven years is completely and utterly pointless. He is friends with Edgeworth, a person who has been previously shown to have incredible influence behind the scenes and would've easily been able to help Phoenix expose Kristoph without having to reach out to Apollo or create the MASON System in the first place.
-"I wouldn't say it's a character assassination, it's simply an evolution" No, an evolution would be if this game took place forty years in the future when Phoenix is retired, and is no longer practicing law, but he acts as a mentor for Apollo. He doesn't need to be in the courtroom screaming "OBJECTION!" to be in character, he just needs to not be a walking contradiction. The Phoenix Wright from the original trilogy would've _never_ accepted being disbarred when he knew he didn't forge the evidence. He would've fought tooth and nail to challenge his disbarment, he wouldn't have just played poker for seven years - especially when _he is friends with Edgeworth_
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This game is an indefensible creation that makes the entire original trilogy pointless. His legendary journey to became an ace attorney was completely destroyed because Kristoph lost a game of poker, Ema was annihilated, the case logic makes no sense, the characters are either terrible people or lack any characteristics to make the player care about them one way or the other, and it's frustrating to play because of needlessly complicated investigative mechanics as well as Perceive.
If you like this terrible game, that is absolutely fine. I would never want to take your enjoyment of this game away. But to defend it as good, even "genius," is another matter entirely.
@@GamingMagic13 we could continue this battle of giant paragraphs but I think we can just agree to disagree, again as I said before I could go over all of the problems you pointed out but 1 I would hit the word limit and 2 as I said before you can do this with many cases, it doesn't make them completely defunct. These games take place in an entirely different legal system that makes completely no sense by our rules but again to me they seem like nit picks the only real important ones being why zack abandoned trucy, (he was a wanted criminal and trucy was involved in his escape, he could potentially have made things worse for her and he knew she was in safe hands) as well as to why the gunshots in the hospital weren't heard (it was the middle of the night in an empty ward).
As for your response to phoenix's character Steve the football* player isn't a good comparison. It would be more accurate if for example Steve suffered a serious injury playing football or was banned from playing for life. Phoenix has many reasons to act the way he does (considering he lost everything) and again he's not just being a hobo for 7 years he still wants to find the truth and he's spent those years preparing to bring kristoph to justice, we can see this in the Mason system in which it's purpose is mostly to show how phoenix became who he is and how he pieced together the whole conspiracy. Just overall i think you are at least critising them a little harshly at the very least but I 100% understand how you feel, as for someone who realy enjoyed the new direction they took phoenix and the new characters I could overlook all the problems you pointed out and realy enjoy this game but I can see that considering how central phoenix's character is to the plot that if you feel like it doesn't make sense it has some what of a knock on effect. It's probably important to point out that I've only played all these game (except spirit of justice and dgs 1 and 2) this year back to back so maybe this changes my perception of the game. Either way I think we can just respect that different people see thus game differently and not say that it's objectively good or bad.
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"as I said before you can do this with many cases, it doesn't make them completely defunct."
"to me they seem like nit picks "
I explicitly stated why every plot hole I brought up has major ramifications for the plot. It's fine if they don't bother you, but every single issue I listed either does major damage to, or completely breaks the story. The mysteries, as well as the methods in which the characters solve these mysteries, are completely undone by these plot holes. One of them involves a character surviving an impossible situation. Some would prevent Phoenix from ever having been disbarred.
These are not insignificant. These are not nitpicks. These are game-breaking writing issues.
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"he was a wanted criminal and trucy was involved in his escape, he could potentially have made things worse for her and he knew she was in safe hands"
A. He knew that she could be implicated in his escape, and therefore he left her all alone to deal with it by herself? Truly father of the year.
B. What safe hands? As far as he knew, she had no living relatives. She was by herself for _two weeks_ before Phoenix called her into his office.
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"it was the middle of the night in an empty ward"
You do realize that there are nurses and doctors who work night shifts, right? You are aware that they don't just leave their patients by themselves overnight?
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"Steve the football* player isn't a good comparison. It would be more accurate if for example Steve suffered a serious injury"
Phoenix never suffered from any mental condition that prevented him from being a defense attorney.
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"or was banned from playing for life"
Then allow me to amend my story. In the sequel, the story begins with Steve lying on a couch dejected because he can't play the sport he loves anymore. Why is this the case? Because he was serving as a goalkeeper and dove to block the ball, but as he did someone from the other team collapsed next to him. From the perspective of every other player on the field and the audience, it looked like Steve tackled the player. This led to an immediate red card and a lifetime ban. Steve had decided not to fight this ban and just sit around the TV all day instead.
Does _this_ story make sense? No, it doesn't. Because if Steve(Phoenix) was passionate enough about playing(practicing law) then he should've absolutely fought back against the ban (challenged his disbarment).
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"he still wants to find the truth and he's spent those years preparing to bring kristoph to justice"
This is the third time you've sidestepped my point about this. All he had to do was go to Edgeworth for help because he has proven himself to have immense influence behind the scenes. There was no need to invent the MASON System or use Apollo as a part of his scheme.
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"Either way I think we can just respect that different people see thus game differently and not say that it's objectively good or bad."
Remember when I said "If you like this terrible game, that is absolutely fine. I would never want to take your enjoyment of this game away?" You've been trying to defend the game against criticisms I've brought up, which makes me think you actually believe that this game is of quality. However, if you've adjusted your position from "this game is good" to "I really enjoy this game" then I stand by what I said before:
I'm happy to hear that you love the game. No really, I am. I'm being 100% serious. I'm glad that you were able to find enjoyment in something I absolutely cannot. I've never once said that I wanted you to stop liking the game. If all you want to say is "I enjoy the game," that's absolutely fine.
Please play Investigations 2. Please. I beg of you. You will not regret it
That's a promise.
I know people really want me to play it on the channel, and if CAPCOM ever localizes it I will
You and I both know that Capcom isn't gonna localize it. Not to be rude, but question: Is there a reason why you don't want to play the fan translation on an emulator? I'm curious to know
Always good to hear someone rip apart 4-4 to shreds as it should be. What an awful case.
welp, this is outdated.
Wait why?
How? No AA game has been made/localized since this video's release
UniverseGlory yeah the last game that has been released was the sequel to the great ace attorney which came out a while before this video
he's making an aai:2 lp
@@themcusbiggestfan3210 oh
First like bro👍👍👍
I will never understand why the English community hate so much Apollo justice game and the reset of Phoenix, literally was the best that occurred to the character
"The English community..." okay then.
If you don't understand how mercilessly his character was assassinated after my explanation in this video, or after perusing other comment responses I've written out, there's nothing else I can do to explain it.
@@GamingMagic13 lol you explanation has no sense, you are only insulted because he is not the same, some mediocre fan... But obviously, seeing Phoenix defending a whale is better
@@pipemondaca13Thank you for perfectly demonstrating how monumentally you have failed to comprehend what I was saying. Truly, your comprehension skills are unmatched.
Once again; not my fault if you can’t understand something so simple. Good day.
@@GamingMagic13 good way on how avoid the initial argument and demonstrate again that English community are ruining ace attorney :)
@@pipemondaca13 Avoiding the argument? Are you fucking kidding me? Your “argument” was “lol you no like new character because new = bad” which is such a blatant mischaracterization of what I actually said that there’s nothing for me to say except “you failed to comprehend what I said; please try again.”
Also, “The English community is ruining Ace Attorney.” Holy fuck...
Great Video!
Personally I disagree in case 3-3. IMO the biggest issue which you didn't mention was the Tiger acting as Glen Elg. I mean, you cannot find any 2 people looking more different. And as this was the major twist, that's what makes the case so bad IMO.
I do like AJ better than JFA. I agree that case 3 is shit, but I love the story around Kristoph Gavin, and case 1 is my favourite of the whole series. Every contradiction makes sense, Phoenix is brilliant and the case ends with a great mystery about Kristoph's motif, making me hungry for more.
On the other hand, I dislike your favourite 3-5. It is brilliant, but I just can't stand how Maya is suffering and how beloved innocent Pearl is being used so shamelessly by her own mother. And in the end, it turns out that all might have been avoided if Godot had come over his hatred against Phoenix earlier and told him what he knew. Instead, he tragically became the culprit. It feels to me as though the evil side almost won the case, just for creating so much chaos and sorrow.
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"MO the biggest issue which you didn't mention was the Tiger acting as Glen Elg. I mean, you cannot find any 2 people looking more different. And as this was the major twist, that's what makes the case so bad IMO."
1. You'd be surprised how easily people can be fooled simply by the clothes and - in this case - the eyepiece.
2. Disregarding that, Victor has already been established as someone fully distracted by the waitresses at the restaurant. As such, Glen Elg - or, in this case, Furio Tigre - would've been a complete afterthought and he likely would not have been able to recall much about the specifics of who was sitting there - as later proven by his inability to remember...basically anything.
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"Every contradiction makes sense, Phoenix is brilliant and the case ends with a great mystery about Kristoph's motif, making me hungry for more. "
Notice how nothing you said had anything to do with Apollo, and instead had to do with other characters doing Apollo's work for him.
But regardless, the case is absolutely the least terrible of the four, but that doesn't make it good. It's especially frustrating that the major "twist" with Kristoph being the villain is so painfully obvious that anybody can easily see right through it immediately.
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"It is brilliant, but I just can't stand how Maya is suffering and how beloved innocent Pearl is being used so shamelessly by her own mother. And in the end, it turns out that all might have been avoided if Godot had come over his hatred against Phoenix earlier and told him what he knew. Instead, he tragically became the culprit. It feels to me as though the evil side almost won the case, just for creating so much chaos and sorrow."
It almost feels like this isn't worth responding to because:
1. All you've described is how tragic the case is. A case having tragic circumstances doesn't mean the case itself is bad.
2. You already admitted that the case is brilliant
So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@GamingMagic13 Your answer doesn't seem like you value other people's opinions very high if they differ from yours so Ill save my time and energy rather than responsing any further. Bye.
@@dustinbachstein3729
I have always encouraged discussion in my comments because I thoroughly enjoy discussing these types of things with people.
As a matter of fact, I was actively looking forward to your response so we could continue this discussion. Sadly, it has now been stopped dead in its tracks because you think I don't value other people's opinions if they differ from my own.
I have no idea how you've arrived at this conclusion, but I assure you it could not be farther from the truth.
But, it was fun while it lasted I guess.
@@GamingMagic13 Well, for example, you wrote that case 4-1 IS the least terrible of AJ, but it IS still not good. That sounded to me like a matter of fact, not a personal opinion, so I saw no point in discussing any further. Also your ASCII smiley at the end looked quite not so friendly to me. But if you didn't mean it like that, let's keep going :D
Case 4-1
True, Apollo almost seems to have a side-role in this case, but I actually find that quite funny! It's clear from the beginning that Phoenix is Apollo's big idol, but their careers start as different as one can think, and Apollo, trying to be as serious as his idol used to be, experiences one WTF scenario after the other - Phoenix almost takes over as defense attorney, Apollo's mentor is a killer, and thwn what happened at the start of case 2, when Apollo visits the agency, hoping for nothing but a normal job interview... I could feel with him and liked him from the start. On the other hand, much of Apollo's character came to light in 4-1, such as valuing truth over loyality to his mentor, and he didn't want Olga to take the blame even though he didn't like her. Obviously there were good reasons why Phoenix chose Apollo as his defense!
Back to the case itself: I love the twist of Kristoph being the killer , especially if you take into account that in all previous first cases, the killer always was the first and only witness. 4-1 is my favourite case not only of AJ but of all Ace Attorneys (excluding 6-3 onwards, which I don't know yet).
Case 3-5
As I said, we needn't discuss about the objective beilliancy of this case. However, I could not really enjoy it because I suffered so much with Maya, Pearly and, finally, also Godot. That's all I can say about it.
Case 3-3
True, the old guy could be tricked fairly easily, but still the twist did not convince me. All these arrangements carrying unconscious and dead bodies back and forth in the Tres Bien - what if anyone casually looked through a window from outside? And the Tiger acting as Phoenix in court - Phoenix himself called it "cautious" but it was obviously a ridiculous decision from the Tiger -so ridiculous that it's already funny again, but I don't like it when a case is too far away from being realistic.
@@dustinbachstein3729
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"Well, for example, you wrote that case 4-1 IS the least terrible of AJ, but it IS still not good. That sounded to me like a matter of fact, not a personal opinion, so I saw no point in discussing any further. "
I really don't see how saying that something "is" something is dismissive. I can say that the game "is" bad, but that doesn't mean I don't want people to try to convince me of the opposite. I always welcome that discussion; there's always the chance someone will bring up something I've yet to consider.
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"Also your ASCII smiley at the end looked quite not so friendly to me."
I apologize; that was not my intention. The intent was for it to come off as "Well, since you've said that the case is brilliant, and I've said the same thing, there doesn't really seem to be much of a discussion to be had here. Ah well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
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"Obviously there were good reasons why Phoenix chose Apollo as his defense!"
Reasons he couldn't possibly have known due to never having met Apollo prior to that day. The only reason Phoenix specifically requested him was because he knew that Kristoph would deliberately put up a false defense to save himself; there's no other reason he would trust a rookie defense attorney when his life depended on it.
As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, you could even say that Phoenix had _way_ too much faith that Apollo would be willing to turn on his mentor in his first ever case - since, as we know, Phoenix had solved the entire case from the very beginning.
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"I love the twist of Kristoph being the killer , especially if you take into account that in all previous first cases, the killer always was the first and only witness."
Right; I forgot about The Lost Turnabout where Gumshoe was the killer, and Turnabout Memories where Phoenix was the killer.
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"but still the twist did not convince me."
Whether _you're_ convinced of the twist is irrelevant; all that matters is whether or not its believable that Victor Kudo could've believably mistaken Tigre for Glen Elg - which your response admits is a perfectly reasonable scenario.
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"what if anyone casually looked through a window from outside?"
First of all, the only thing that anybody could've seen that would raise alarm would be them moving Glen to and from the kitchen, which can easily be done out of sight by just sliding him across the floor out of the window's line of sight - since anybody casually looking in from outside would not bother to lean in closely to check out the floor.
Second, we know based on the floor plans that there are only five windows in the restaurant; one for each table, as well as the glass in the door itself. Looking through the door would bring you face to face with a giant wall and the hostess stand, but nothing else. The other four, meanwhile would not offer a great vantage point due to the drapes, in addition to the foliage visible through the windows when Phoenix & Maya first arrive at the restaurant.
I could also bring in evidence from the anime, but since that requires knowledge outside of the game itself I won't.
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"And the Tiger acting as Phoenix in court - Phoenix himself called it "cautious" but it was obviously a ridiculous decision from the Tiger -so ridiculous that it's already funny again, but I don't like it when a case is too far away from being realistic."
This is by far the part of the case that is the hardest to swallow, but upon taking a closer look at the script it's made clear that the writers put a tremendous amount of effort into making sure the pieces were all there for this to make logical sense.
They establish very clearly that Xin Eohp had the materials required to take Phoenix's place in court - spiky hair, blue suit, phony attorney's badge - and that the other characters primarily recognize Phoenix based on these attributes. That idea is further supported, interestingly enough - in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, since Apollo - and likely many people in the gallery - don't realize that Phoenix is the defendant in Turnabout Trump until the judge outright refers to him as such.
Maggey clearly stated in the first investigation of that case that "no one wanted to say anything" in regards to noticing differences between Xin Eohp and Phoenix. The most logical conclusion to draw from this - as supported by the trial in which we cross-examine Furio Tigre later in the case - is that people were too scared to say anything because of how loud and rude he was to the other people.
No matter how physically different from Phoenix he was, his attitude had scared the courtroom enough to prevent them from accusing him of not being Phoenix Wright.
The chain of events is as follows:
When Xin Eohp initially met Maggey in the detention center, she had no reason to suspect that he wasn't Phoenix. She may have thought "Hm. He was acting differently" but since they had only met once before and that was months prior to this case, it's understandable that she would've dismissed the thought.
When it came time for the trial, as I've previously mentioned, if Xin Eohp terrified the court with his loud roar in the later trial then he almost certainly did it in the initial one. As such, the line "no one wanted to say anything" holds up under scrutiny. People may have been suspicious, but they had no way to know for sure that it wasn't him.
And without any definitive proof, they had no solid case to accuse him.
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I get having a problem with Apollo Justice’s story, but how in the hell does 6-4 get a pass because oh my god that was the most nonsensical meaningless bullshit I’ve ever had the misfortune of playing in the series. The DID was not handled well at all, how does alcohol take out 3 out of 4 of your personalities? What person with DID’s experience does that line up with? I would be ok with leaps in logic if they served a purpose, but every stupid twist just felt like an excuse to keep the case going, like it was being written in the moment. I seriously could not believe how ridiculously stupid the case had become by the end, and for what it was a complete waste of time
I agree with almost everything except the Apollo justice part xD you are being too harsh on the game as always xD
I have one minor problem though that you put AAI-3 on mediocre... This case... This fucking case deserves to be in the bottom tier of every list... The villains are god awful... The story and investigation saction are super annoying... The only thing good about this case is probably the introduction of Lang and Kay
Everything I've ever said in criticism of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney has been completely fair. And even if you don't believe that I've been objective in my assessment of the quality of theses games, nothing I said about that game is inaccurate in this video, and dismissing my criticisms as "being too harsh" is extremely disingenuous to say the least.
And in regards to The Kidnapped Turnabout, I would play that case a million times over before I ever touched the atrocity of a video game known as Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney again.
@@GamingMagic13 you would play that shitty worst case a million times over??? Understandable, have a nice day... It was nice knowing you
@@SaberHazari I dont think its THAT bad. Just VERY forgetteble. Kinda like the game itself.
@@BlueFire2424 but definitely any case in apollo justice is better than that one... that case had nothing positive about it... The plot was straight up bad and stretched out, the case itself was simply annoying and boring, the characters were also shitty... the only case I'd say comes close to as bad as this one would be turnabout corner.... I wouldn't say Investigations 1 is forgettable tbh... I really like case 4 and 5 of the game
@@SaberHazari Well "forgetteble" is not the right word to describe it. Overshadowed by Ace Attorney İnvestigations 2 is a better way of describing it
I really disagree with your opinions.... lol
Cool. What am I supposed to do with this information?
@@GamingMagic13 idk, bury it o guess
@@LeneAlexandraa Damn, you're _really_ salty I shit all over Apollo Justice aren't you?
@@LeneAlexandraa How about, instead of him stop making videos, YOU stop making comments?
Clearly, you aren't able to write any sort of counterargument so you're just coming off as a salty 9-year-old.
Ah, a fellow hater of Apollo Justice. I approve. The game sucks.
Shit takes
1-3 Takes: Good, 4-6 Takes: Horrible
4-6 suck