7mm Showdown | Part 1| Laying the Foundation | Little Crow Gunworks
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- In this video, we "Lay the Foundation" for this video series. We use this video as an opportunity for you to get to know us. We answer some questions and then move into why we are going about things the way we are. We analyze different projectile types, their strengths and weaknesses to support why we chose the 160gr CX bullet for this series.
We also review some of the digital tools we will be using to support or process.
www.littlecrow...
Opening Clip was sampled from Movieclips CZcams Channel
The Odd Couple movie clips: j.mp/15vNTCb
CLIP DESCRIPTION:
Felix (Jack Lemmon) cleans the room and Oscar (Walter Matthau) destroys the room, in this quiet battle of wills.
FILM DESCRIPTION:
Compulsive neatnik Felix Unger (Jack Lemmon) is thrown out of his house by his divorce-bound wife. He wanders aimlessly through the streets of New York, toying with the idea of suicide, before gravitating to the apartment of his best friend, incorrigibly sloppy sportswriter Oscar Madison (Walter Matthau). Worried that Felix will try something desperate, Oscar, himself in the process of being divorced by his wife, invites Felix to move in with him. Within a few days, this mismatched pair is on the verge of mutual murder: Felix cannot abide Oscar's slovenliness, while Oscar is driven insane by Felix's obsession with cleanliness. A potentially passionate evening with Oscar's neighbors, the "coo-coo" Pigeon sisters (Monica Evans and Carole Shelley) is ruined when Felix, ruminating over his wife and children, reduces the two ladies to remorseful tears. Pushed to the brink, Oscar stalks around the apartment making as big a mess as possible. Comes the next week's poker game, and the previously vengeful Oscar is worried that Felix might have attempted to do away with himself again. Instead, a surprisingly self-confident Felix shows up to collect his belongings, then announces that he's temporarily moving upstairs with the toothsome Pigeon sisters! There's a laugh a second in this faithful movie adaptation of Neil Simon's hit Broadway play. A foolproof comic situation (allegedly based on a chapter in the life of Simon's brother Danny) is kept alive and healthy by some of the funniest dialogue ever written. The Odd Couple was later adapted into a long-running TV sitcom starring Tony Randall and Jack Klugman.
CREDITS:
TM & © Paramount (1968)
Cast: Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau
Director: Gene Saks
Producer: Howard W. Koch
Screenwriter: Neil Simon
The MOVIECLIPS channel is the largest collection of licensed movie clips on the web. Here you will find unforgettable moments, scenes and lines from all your favorite films. Made by movie fans, for movie fans.
Thank you for this content. I am a small-town teacher with an interest in shooting and hunting. I live in PA and a far shot for me is 300 yards. I dont have near the time to devote to learning what I need to become the best shot. I like to think I am a decent shot and that I am constantly learning and improving every time I do get to the range. You breaking down bc, es, and dispersion here and how they effect hunting ranges was the best I have ever seen. I dont have access to all the technology you do, to do this kind of resource. Based on what I can gather through CZcams, Facebook groups, the free hornady app, I had come up with the same answer to what bullet I wanted to shoot out of my 7mm prc. I bought the gun to have a gun that can knock down bigger game. To me you always want 2 holes in an animal. Interlock is a great bullet but does handicap you due to the lower bc. Being a novice to reading wind, the gain I get by having a bit higher bc means everything right now. I'm not an eldx fan due to the close nature of my typical shots in pa but did like that they had higher bc. After your explanation I'm solidly convinced to just stuck with the cx bullet and work up a load my rifle likes with a decent es and dispersion and then practice more and worry less how to shrink those numbers.
Thank you for that Matt. We wanted to set a new standard for how these comparisons are done. As a teacher, you know that most raw information without context is at best, incomplete and at worst, meaningless or counterproductive.
In reality, you have to make compromises no matter what bullet you choose. The CX has the least compromises for a hunting bullet. People don't realize that you have to choose bullets for your specific application. There is no best choice for ALL applications. In the woods, you shouldn't be using a 175 ELDX. It's the wrong choice.
I agree, 2 holes is always best and yes and ELDX will explode at close range and high velocity, I've done it.
The 7 PRC and a CX is point and shoot out to 300yds. Favor 6 inches into the wind if you're shooting 300yds in high wind (15mph+). But otherwise, don't even worry about it. Aim for the vitals and let'er rip.
Get out and practice when you can. If that elk hunt comes someday, you'll be ready.
Thanks again for the support.
Absolutely! The only down fall to lead free bullets I really see is when I shoot steel, it doesn't leave a black mark that I can easily see. That is actually the only reason I don't use them.
@@mikedrescher3891 White paint.
Finally...A hunter minded technically oriented , down to. Facts on meat!!! Not just holes on paper. Bravo!!!
Ah Thank You, Thank You (Takes a bow)
Yes, absolutely agree!
The context of these videos and where you want to take them.
Hunters are to receive a great eye opening education.
Your first graph you showed, put the heat to the meat.
I hope people watch these videos wanting to gain some knowledge.
Blessings your way my friends.
I love it when super knowledgeable people share their hard earned knowledge for anyone to see. I know it's no substitute for experience, but getting accurate and granular data can shorten the curve if people comprehend the meaning of the data and apply it appropriately. I wish I had a longer range. Living in the Appalachian mountains makes it tricky to find places to reach out there. I'll be watching for the next video in the series.
I love that you're using saami spec chambers, it makes it more accessible to the average Joe.
I just picked up my (deceased) uncles old Winchester model 94 in 30-30 from my brother for $200. It was just rusting in his storage closet. I've been wanting a wood stocked lever gun, but don't want to spend $1000. I had no idea he had it until today. I can't wait to bring it back to life.
Cheers
Ben
Thank you for that Ben. That was my point. My goal is to push you along that curve whether you're ready or not. I think that's what everyone wants when they watch YT videos. But they're not getting it most of the time. They get the same regurgitated paper numbers that are unfounded and have no meaning without context.
Yeah we decided that we can still make our points with saami chambers. Then the average Joe knows what's possible.
Good luck with the 94 project. See ya on the next one.
Well I made it through the video only to realize that I am at the thought I knew but I actually know so little stage😆 I have managed to avoid the new cartridge hype when I added a few rifles to my collection. Instead of going the PRC route I chose a Sako Precision in 7mm REM Mag and a Sako Hunter in .308. I then added a Tikka T3X in 7mm-08 for my deer rifle. Where I hunt in northern Ontario my typical shot for deer is 50-100 yards and for moose 100-300 yards. I enjoyed the video and I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of the series. Knowledge is power. I like your direct no bullshit approach don’t change!
Well at least you can admit it. Most won't even make it THAT far. It sounds like what you're running works for your applications. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
I have no intention of changing my approach. It's in short supply.
Honesty, sarcasm and good data…wow this is and will be a great educational series!
Nice work!
Thanks Jared! Excellent feedback!
I met Tim a little over a year ago at Dale’s when I bought my first custom rifle. I’m fortunate to live in the same town Little Crow Gunworks has it shop. I went from an average 100 yard shooter to now a year later being able to hit a 16” X 24” steel plate at 900 yards! Trust me when I say, this guy knows his stuff and I’m Proof that if you apply what he tells you to your shooting format it will change the way you shoot forever. Thanks Tim
Joe, I don't want this to be a public love fest, but you are the ideal student. Despite being around 20 years my senior, you don't question everything I say. You be quiet, focus and LISTEN. Then, you make sure you grasped what I said, you go process and apply it without questioning it and hey, it works.
If you weren't an eager and willing student, I would have stopped helping you a long time ago. So, you deserve just as much credit as I do.
"When the student is ready, the teacher appears."
I have encountered many different people that immediately start disputing what I say, and I say to myself: "They're not ready." and I just shut up and let them go flounder about.
Thank you for the kind words and for appreciating and applying my process.
Absolute gold standard conversation on bullets, BC and velocity! Well done!
Thanks! Tell you're friends, ha!
You're late to the party, but I'm glad you came.
This is like the jordan peterson of shooting sports. Not dumbing this down or cutting it short. Thank you
Well David, you win the unofficial "Comment Contest".
First with the Mt. Stupid comment, which had me cackling like a madman and now this.
I never thought I would reach a point in my life where a stranger would draw a parallel between me and Jordan Peterson on any metric. For me personally, there isn't a better compliment you could give me.
I'm honored, thank you.
Well, i have spent a lot of time energy and money focusing on the wrong aspects of shooting. Frustrated to the point of wanting to give up by my inability to develope the perfect load for my 280ai. Chasing high BC's low SD's and (what i was told) must have 1/2 inch groups. This information makes a lot of sense. I am changing my focus at the reloading bench, and at the range. After all hunting is my focus not punching paper. Thanks-
Thanks you for the insight David. I did the same thing. The method I developed usually results in what you have been chasing (high velocity, 1/2" or better and ES under 15 for 3 shots) and I intend to share it with all of you. But it took me thousands of shots fired in load development to figure out what works.
The hard truth is that, although the perfect load DOES HELP hit probability, if you can't read wind to within a couple miles per hour and get a good range...all that precision gets lost in the wash. When you see all the useless talking points/drop chart comparison videos, they don't tell you that.
Yes the High BC drifts less, but that doesn't mean you get to suck at wind reading and still hit stuff. You still have to put in the work.
But Jordan Peterson is a idiot. He is a genius to less than smart people.
Very interesting and practical knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to educate others like myself. Im glad to see someone advocate for terminal performance im their bullet over BC for hunting as well as defining sensible limits to what long range is for hunting. I set 600 yds as my personal limit, with the intent to shoot much closer if at all possible. Interesting how extreme accuracy was not overly beneficial, I would have lost on that one. Looking forward to the next video in the series.
The BC doesn't matter if the bullet won't do kill the animal reliably. Yeah, the extreme accuracy and many other variables get swallowed up by the fact that you can't read wind perfectly.
Brilliant sir, you are educating me. Thank you!
Happy to hear it, glad you're coming along.
This is some of the most in depth knowledge on CZcams. Finally actual info with a source to back it up! I'll be watching each and every one of these videos
Wow! Thanks man. We appreciate the loyalty. See ya on the next one!
I first met you when you guys rechambered my old 270wsm … and now this just showed up in my CZcams feed…
watched the first episode and now I’m hooked. You’ll be seeing me when I’m done watching it all I need to get setup with my reloading and I’m ready for a new rifle 😎
I have been looking for a 7mm and here you are. Kudos to you for sharing all this. And f the trolls and haters!
Thank you for that, we appreciate the continued support. We decided it was time to contribute to the good info on the internet.
Fantastic explanation of the variables that make up ballistics. As an owner of all the calibers to be tested, I'm very eager to see the rest of the series.
Thanks Derek. NOBODY compares things like this and analyzes the ballistics this way. They use drop and drift charts based on ammo box velocities. It's nearly useless, for ANYTHING but... comparing drop and drift charts. Thanks for coming along.
Thank you very much for your statistical analysis. In any endeavor it’s important to know when you’ve reached “good enough”. The point of diminishing returns for BC surprised me - I had guessed it was a much higher BC. In addition, it’s clear that BC just doesn’t matter at 300 yards and it. The shocker though was the incremental benefit from the 0.050” rifle. Clearly a 3/4 MOA rifle is good enough.
Exactly. Most of the other channels you watch, they don't tell you that. Why? Because they don't know this stuff. They don't analyze things this way. It's WAY easier to just say "more is better". Know what I mean?
You need the highest BC and the lowest ES and one hole groups, etc. No you don't. Not for 99% of people who just want to make an ethical shot and put meat in the freezer.
You need good equipment that is consistent, reliable and easy to shoot accurately (designed well). And you need lots and lots of trigger time. That trumps all of the "precision metrics" in the first 600yds. Now that doesn't mean the precision metrics don't matter. The farther you shoot, the more they matter. But as you go farther and farther, different metrics matter more.
By the time you get to ELR distances (1500+)... extreme spread and bullet to bullet ballistic coefficient consistency are the most important factors. THEN how high the BC is, THEN 100yd group size.
For the 200yd benchrest crowd, group size is everything. Ballistic coefficient and extreme spread are nearly irrelevant.
So, it just depends on what you're doing. There's no universal "this is the best". Fit the tool to the job. But in the long range game, experience trumps EVERYTHING, by a large margin.
But for THIS JOB... big game out to 600. Yes, get the rifle under 1 MOA, the ES under 50, learn how to use your rangefinder, and burn a barrel out by practicing. Or buy a training rifle, like our 22 Nosler and burn THAT barrel out practicing out to a thousand, if you have access to that or whatever you have. So when your 500yd shot comes on your big game animal, it's a chip shot for you.
Can you share thoughts on 7mm 175 Accubond or the 175 Accubond long range bullets? I do understand that you consider the monolithic your bullet of choice. You really didn't address bonded bullets. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Great question. I will cover it in the terminal video.
Great video. Really enjoy the data presentation and the effects of changing the inputs. Enlightening.
Thank you, I figured it would blow everyone's hair back.
Thank you, I really enjoyed watching this video and while not quite drinking from the firehose, I feel like I learned more in the time spent watching this video than I have in all the hours spent watching so many others. I'm not a long range shooter, but I very interested in learning about it. I finally feel like I found a good source to get a foundation.
Wow. I'll take that compliment. It seems like a lot of folks are finding value in it. I just need to stay on my game. Thanks for joining us.
Loving this! Thanks heaps for doing this series.
Thanks mate, glad you're enjoying the ride.
Science base without the fluff and no BS...exactly what im looking for. I'm on the upward/beginner long range portion of the curve trying to soak up as much (good) info as possible. This series was meant for me for sure. I own one of the calibers you're comparing and look forward to seeing how it stacks up. Really interested in the GRT info as Im growing in my rifle load development knowledge. Thanks again for this gem of a series and I hope theyre all an hour plus in length!
You're welcome man, I'm enjoying it. The fact that you can admit where you are on the graph, tells me you're going to be ok in the long run. Stick with it and maintain that open mind and you'll get there.
That’s some great info for me. I was all about BC,now I’ve got a much better understanding. Thanks a lot.
That just means that their marketing is working. It's very effective at convincing people that BC is everything.
Thanks for watching.
Great video! I'm new to long range and I really appreciate your straight forward approach to explaining things
Thanks Jack! That's good, that's all you're gonna get from me. I'm a terrible actor. Thanks for watching.
Yay for deep dives! Been checking youtube often for this to drop. Looking forward to the rest of the series. Edited to add after watching through: I'm especially eager to watch you use GRT. I've used it quite a bit in the past for load development in the .280 AI, but would love to see it from the perspective of someone who actually knows what they're doing. :)
Thanks for the support. I thought this video might be too long for people's liking... apparently not.
GRT video coming soon.
Thanks for your hard work. The two columns of hit percentages was a really great way to illustrate what things we should be focusing on!
You're welcome Chris. Those two columns are what's missing from everyone else's videos on long range shooting. We all know that ES, small groups and BC is important. But take the time to quantify it, so people actually understand what's important and what's not for their application.
Thanks for watching.
WOW as a 77 year old hunter with over 50 years of reloading experience I have a learned a lot in this video. rifle builder randy Selby has similar view points on the big push of high BC bullets. down right lie in the marking scam. I have used partition bullets on grizzly and moose with great success, but that was the best we had forty years ago. looking forward to more of your great content.
Thanks Otto! The fact that you're 77 and still searching for new information is very inspiring to me. We have a client that comes in often, he's retired. At some point he says "Man, I learn something new every time I come in here."
Partitions STILL kill stuff just fine. They don't exit on those big critters, but it kills just fine. Thanks for joining the adventure!
I am really enjoying this series. I’ve never been a big BC guy, but your analytical data on the smaller % of difference the ES made was eye opening. I’ll definitely look at things differently now. Looking forward to the rest of the series. Thanks for doing this.
I'm glad it was worth your time. Yeah the ES and the Group size/precision is very eye opening. The wind and distance error swallows up your painstaking load development.
Happy to help. Thanks for watching!
Great info. I learned somethings. Thank you!
I hope so. I'd be shocked if you didn't.
Wow. How refreshing to hear the things you are saying. I am heading out now to see if I can find the beam on my rangefinder. And learn more about the wind. Anxious to see the rifle builds and performance.
Jeez, you don't waste any time! Thanks for the support!
Wow, this is great. I've been a competitive archer most of my life, and rifle hunted varmints for a long time. So this is great for me, because I have so much to learn. The length was fine. Ha, I was kind of sorry it ended.
Thank you for doing this. No nonsense, no BS.
You're welcome Mark. It had to happen. I've seen too many "half truth" videos with no naughty words and 40 edits in 10 minutes.
I prefer lettin'er fly, the whole truth, and 3 edits. One because of the stupid camera. HA!
Great foundation. Looking forward to series. Thanks
Thank you John!
This Mount stupid graph, is like me getting my first hopped-up 660 Stihl chainsaw.
LOL, there are so many things like that. Big saws are one of them. Cars are another one. Everybody wants 600hp until it's under their right foot. Then most don't want it anymore.
Great info there!!! This series is gonna be an amazing dive into 7mm Cartridges!!!
Thanks man.
We're gonna try anyways! Ha
Great video. I'm new to hunting and rifles in general. Your information is really helpful to me as a sport shooter and future hunter. I started reloading last year for my 30-30 because the factory ammo costs so much. Gordon's reloading tool is amazing. It's helped me get a couple of great loads for my 30-30...For competition I have to shoot standing with iron sights at 100 meters. 40 shots in 10 minutes. The mirage after 30ish shots makes the target almost imperceptible. The accurate loads help me a lot. I'm really babbling here and I don't know why. I guess I just want to say that I appreciate this content and am looking forward to the next video.
Thank you! Keep that open mind, you'll get more out of it.
I don't know when I started reloading with my dad but sometime in the 70s. Thought I had an idea what I was doing. But I fell into the BC trap till I watched this! I've since run the #s for the 300 I'm putting together comparing the 212 grainers I was planning on to lighter stuff. Just ordered a bunch of 168s as with a 300 yrd zero the 212s don't catch up till 1500 yrds. This is for banging steel and for me to learn not for hunting.
Thanks for the Great Info!
Glad to hear it Chuck. Yeah, the BC does matter and it does increase hit probability. But at the ranges that most people shoot, it's WAY less important than people think. And at all ranges it is WAY less important than having a good range and making a good wind call. Range, wind, then everything else.
Loving it! I run the 280 AI and the 28 NOS each have their own purpose for me.
Looking forward to learning a lot more. Thank you for your time. New subscriber!
Right on man! You bookended our whole series with those two cartridges! You are correct, they are in different categories I would say. Thanks for coming along!
Very nice start…I really liked the comment on burning up barrels, absolutely no substitute for time on the range..
That might be the most true statement in long range shooting.
Thanks for the feedback!
This is a great freaking video!
But with that was said, I’m still glad Hornady puts a boat tail on their 30/30 140 grain mono flex tips 😂😂😂 😂😂
Keep’ ur vids com’n
Thanks man!
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching
It’s going to be interesting to learn your thoughts on free bore. From 308 case size to 300 mag size cases.
Loving this series. Grew up shooting the cheap Core Lokt and PowerPoint out of a .270 Win and have been looking at moving to a 7mm or 300 WM for a bit more punch for Elk. Between you and Randy Selby, I'm convinced it's time to try a Monolithic bullet or at the very least, something bonded. Couple of questions I had, 1. Why does the B.C. difference between the interlock and CX make such a large difference in hit % compared to the CX and ELD-X? Is it just diminishing returns after you get above a B.C. over .300 @ 600 yards? 2. I see why you picked the CX over the Interlock and ELD-X, but why the CX over the Barnes TSX/TTSX, Nosler E-Tip, etc.?
Great Question. There is a large jump between the Interlock and the CX because because the CX has 68 Points higher BC AND 134 fps more velocity. Those two things combined cause a drastic improvement.
Where between the CX and the ELDX, the ELDX has 54 points more BC but is 134fps slower. That loss in velocity, nearly offsets all the gain from the added BC.
BC AND Velocity are important. Not just one or the other. But in the first 600yds, velocity is more important than BC, if you're a novice. But the ideal mix, is a blend of higher BC and high velocity. Like the 160gr CX.
Randy knows what the hell he's talking about. He can't communicate it as well as I can and he doesn't have the computer programs to prove it. But, that man KNOWS IN HIS BONES, what I have been communicating to you guys. He's lived it. He just can't communicate it the way I can, so he gets frustrated and loses his temper, and that's where he loses people.
I actually almost met him probably 7 or 8 years ago. We were renting a cabin when we visited Yellowstone. I could see his roof from the deck. I tried to work out a time with Kathy to visit, but we just couldn't make it work. Randy's optimal meeting times were when we were in the park. The guy is brilliant, he's just old school and the "high speed, low drag" crowd doesn't understand him. But he knows all this stuff I'm telling you guys.
The CX has the highest BC per grain of bullet weight. Which means it will have higher hit probability than all the other mono's for a given set of conditions. The X bullets and E-Tips kill stuff just fine. But they will be closer to the Interlock Hit Probability.
Great information. I have re-learned several lessons that I always thought was true but only had my own anecdotal experience to draw from.
Thank you! Glad we could help out.
Aloha, Thank you for taking the time to make this series. Even for a greenhorn like myself, I am able to understand what you are trying to teach and appreciate the straight up no Bullshit approach. Looking forward to the next part.
Thank you for the support. I'm happy you appreciate the approach. It seems to be popular and it's the only way I communicate, so, you're stuck with it.
Thanks for joining the adventure.
So basically moral of the storry is most important thing is knowing what u are doing especially with the wind glad u brought up a 3/4 moa vs say a .3 moa rifle doesn't make much of a difference i have always said this not as experienced as u but been hunting for 35 yrs so i do know some things my limit is 400 yrds and that is as far as i go excited to see this series 😊
You got it. Get you're rifle at 3/4 moa or less, 50fps es or less and then get your shit together and go practice. There is no replacement for getting the reps in, just like anything else.
Patiently waiting to learn about powder selection. Watched both videos on 7mm and am itching to add that to my knowledge base. Great videos.
Patience Grasshoppa. Coming soon!
That opening is funny!
I will fully admit, I do troll on channels I believe are worthy of it. -Like Reloading Weatherby or even some times Jim from Backfire.
But guys who know their chit, are good to go. So lay it down brother. I’m looking forward to it.
You guys keep picking it up and I'll keep laying it down!
Very informative. And lots of data to back it up. Thanks!
Thank you for the positive feedback!
Awesome information!
Glad you think so!
Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to watching this
Happy to hear it! Thanks for watching!
More to this than I thought…. That’s where I’m at …
Knowing were you REALLY are, is step one to getting better.
I only had sound for half a second on my fire stick. Glad I got to watch it on my phone. Good job.
Honestly, I think desktop will be ideal for most of this series. Provided that it doesn't work on your tv. TV would be even better otherwise some things will be hard to read.
Thanks for the support.
Great content. I'm trying to decide on a 7mm cartridge for my next gun so this is right on target for me.
I'm somewhere around 2/3 on the way across the dunning krugrt chart. One thing is clear to me, the more i learn the more I'm aware of just how much i don't know.
Thanks Gabe. Yeah, its a deep hole!
Thank you for sharing this fantastic data! The hit probability info was very informative and something I had never seen or heard of before. I’ll be picking up my first 7mm rifle next week chambered in 7PRC. I’m planning on using the CX or Terminal Ascent bullet . I’m looking forward to practicing in the mountains and learning my true limits.
That's what we want to hear. That was one of our goals with this video series; share information that you're not getting anywhere else. You won't go wrong with either bullet.
Thanks for watching.
At 21:12, getting that one more grain of slower burning powder? Is a longer barrel even more relevant then?
Yes. The slower burning the powder, the more relevant the barrel length is.
I'm glad you brought up the rangefinder beam location in relation to the crosshair. I subbed just for that. I used a small steel plate in one of my flat fields, and layed down prone with the rangefinder on a bag to located it. If I wasn't on the plate, the reading was off to infinity, so I was able to easily locate it. It was actually close to the center!
Well now you know. That's one variable you eliminated. That's all long range shooting is. Advanced problem solving, eliminating variables and reasons why you might miss.
With my story about the prairie dog at 934yds: My first shot landed between it's feet and it jumped in the air and looked around. I had the wind nailed perfectly (12mph from 2 o'clock as I recall), the ONLY reason I missed is because getting a good range, on a rat, on flat ground, that far away, is EXTREMELY difficult. On the second shot, I didn't change any inputs, I just held the crosshairs at the top of his head and sent it down the road. Hit him center mass and that was it.
Ranging errors happen. Even when you have intimate knowledge of your equipment.
Epic start love it!
Thank you for the support!
Lot of perspective and great data points. My opinion will always change with clean presented facts. Thank you.
You're welcome. Thank you for your time!
I glad SOMEONE has really had the audacity to tell it like it is... real world... i would love to see a comparison with the Barnes bullets , TTSX and LRX as thats what i load a lot of.. thanks again...
The problem is, this isn't common knowledge, as made very evident by the comments. NOBODY is putting out content like this.
Another fantastic video!
Thank you, glad you're enjoying it!
Great info, thank you. My eyes were opened to the BS when I was running Max Point Blank for a 5" target. 308 Winchester, 280 Remington and 30'06. I was using 150-180 grain bullets. The MPB for all, were under 300yds which is fine for may hunting needs. However, the amazing part of this study was that all calibers and all bullet weights only had a 6 yard variable for MPB. I'm sure it would have opened up more if I used a 6" or 8" target. However, my longest shot on big game has only been a little over 200yds. I don't need the bigger target. And I don't need high BC.
Thanks for watching. Yes, there is very little difference in the first 300yds even. It's easy to get lost in the numbers. Which was why I did this video.
Beam spread picks up that strand of grass yards short is the thing I watch for. If you use a portable table and do sighting in on target in different places you strike it all the time. I did yesterday.
You get it. Those stupid little errors cause misses all the time.
Great content! Keep it coming!
Thank you! Will do!
This video was awesome! Lots of stuff I already live by BUT so much of the detail explained was great. I’m by no means an experienced long range shooter but I’m a very experienced hunter that has started looking to extend my reach to 500. 600 would be max I would ever take also but I’m not there yet.
Also the blank look at certain points is perfect haha.
Blank looks for effect! LOL
I like where you're going...
We do too... Thanks for coming along.
Many thanks for your extremely informative video. One can sort out drop much more precisely than wind, especially out West shooting across canyons. Very refreshing to learn from solid data sources. My son uses Quick Load .but will ask him to check out Gordons. You confirmed my contention that 3/4 MOA is plenty good for hunting accuracy. Here in Louisiana 200 yards is a long shot. Keep up no BS videos. Might add I like 338 and 35 for elk since my limit is 400 yards and even that distance would be an exception.
Thank you for the positive feedback Jeff. That's the truth of it, trying to get your load below 3/4 MOA has very diminishing returns for hunting applications. I agree that larger bore diameter will kill elk faster, but most people don't shoot heavy recoiling rifles very often or very well.
A precise shot with a 7mm is better than a poor shot with a 338. Thanks for watching.
Well I don't agree with some stuff but you know more than me and most people. the idea is not to be a douche here. I listen, I lean and I admit you have change the things that I did not agreed on. People that disagree most of the time are less knowledgeable than you. Regardless everyone is entitle to an opinion. I thank you for all I have learned here.
Thank you for watching. Almost all of my contempt is directed towards other channels/publications that are making a living by lying to you guys.
Really appreciate your experience and information. I missed the reason you are using the G7 bc...? Thanks.
Thanks Glenn. I did not mention why I'm using the G7 BC. When a projectile has a long (very low drag) nose and a boattail, G7 is the correct Drag Model to use. G1 would be incorrect because it is a poor representation of that projectile shape. The G1 is a great representation of the Interlock, but I wanted to use the same Drag Model for all three so you could see the difference without doing any math.
Because those old legacy bullets are well represented by the G1 standard, that practice has been grandfathered in now with bullet manufacturers because the G1 number is a number that most people know and are familiar with, but when a bullet has a boattail and longer nose profile, the G1 isn't the best number to use. Manufacturers still use it though because it makes it easier for the consumer to see that their bullet has a higher BC than X competitor. But it's actually a poor representation of efficient bullets.
I subscribed after the intro video…… sold me on “the journey” and learning together (data) My off the shelf PRC is standing by.
Glad to hear it. For me, 3 of the 4 cartridges are new to me as far as loading for them. So I'm learning too during this adventure. But I'm applying principles I learned over time. My process works, I'm excited to share it.
Thanks for this info. I'm a deer hunter in the SE. Most shots 50 to 150 yards (308). Does it matter if I use a cup & core, bonded, or copper bullet?
With a 308 at those ranges, I would say no, it doesn't matter. You don't need to worry about violent expansion due to excess velocity. I would suggest 150gr+ bonded as the first choice and 165gr+ cup and core as the second choice. You don't need copper for deer at 150yds.
Thanks for watching.
Thank you for the enlightening content...real eye opening especially for a guy who has never shot past 400 yards. You explained things extremely well so that even this ole Fudd could understand...lol.
I'm glad what I'm saying is landing. I'm never sure how it really went until I start to hear back from folks.
I’m ready to learn and listen…
Then you are a welcome guest.
I can't wait for the next video...Thanks for producing this
It's up! Check it out!
After this i may have just ascended Mt. Stupid to realize just how much i don't know.😂! I hunt in eastern Saskatchewan and shots over 300 yards are rare. The older i get the more i want to hunt other regions as time and resources allow. The western part of Saskatchewan is wide open pronghorn and mule deer country. My goal is to get good enough within 500 yds to take a game animal with proficiency. Eventually im headed to Alaska for a 3 or 4 species hunt. I love the no nonsense approach and myth busting you employ. Thanks for the effort.
I appreciate that Darryl, at least you can admit where you are. Most won't.
It sounds like you have some reasonable goals laid out ahead of you. I'm happy you appreciate the approach. I knew there was a group of people starving for this.
Thanks for watching.
I've got my first custom hunting rifle coming this summer from borden actions in 7 prc. Anxious for this series. Just started handloading so hopefully i retain a bunch of this information in my small brain!!!!😅😂
Ah you'll be fine. Well you bought a Borden so you can't blame the gun! LOL.
When in doubt, re-watch!
@@LittleCrowGunworks I DO HAVE YOUR CASE TRIMMER AND A COUPLE OF OTHER PRODUCTS. TRY TO BUY FROM SMALL USA MA AND PA COMPANIES IF POSSIBLE. ANSWERED ALL MY QUESTIONS WHEN CALLING ABOUT PRODUCTS. HOW LONG BETWEEN EACH EPISODE DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE?
We appreciate that John. I'm going to try to keep a 2 week or less cadence going forward. Once the weather is nice, I can get out and test more consistently, the videos will likely be weekly.
Would like to see you do a video on the Weatherby chamberings, and how it allows you to run higher pressures and that kind of thing that you mentioned. That sounded interesting.
No video needed. It's basically a way of widening the top of the pressure curve and reducing the peak, because the bullet is jumping so far before it hits that hard stop and swages into the rifling.
Overall it's not a good thing. Long jumps usually aren't great for accuracy.
@@LittleCrowGunworksbecause of pressure blow by before the bullet seals the bore?
I can't say for sure. But I can say that in my own experience, as I seat any bullet further in any cartridge, Weatherby or not (increase jump) my velocity goes down. Until I get to the point where I'm compressing the powder, then the velocity starts going back up rapidly.
@LittleCrowGunworks if im correct the compressed load has a faster burn rate causing the higher velocity but because of the jump it has that soft peak, however the highest pressure happens when the bullet engages the rifling. If i am correct than compressed loads should not be set out against the lands.
I think you have a great grasp of what's happening there. Compressed loads can be set against the lands if the initial burn rate is slow enough. I think where everyone likes to load things is around 20 to 50 thou jump. Which is usually conducive to smaller groups, but it is "worst case scenario" for pressure issues.
Absolutely Gold stuff. Finally. I’m a 280ai shooter but I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Hornady Podcast “Your group sizes are too small”. All my most accurate rifles, after doing the Hornady 30 round statistical probability group, aren’t as accurate as I had led myself to believe.
Those who have heard the podcast know. Changed my entire shooting perspective. I just wanted to add this comment because I’ve done extensive testing of hunting bullets since that podcast and a true (I mean statistically meaningful for 30 rounds as per Hornady testing)…a TRUE 0.75moa rifle with hunting bullets is an absolute unicorn.
5 shot groups mean nothing to me anymore after that podcast. My mind was blown and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for your effort on this! 7mm for the win
Thank you for the positive feedback. I listened to the Hornady Podcast too. The truth is they're right. But... nobody shoots at an animal 30 times. If you take the time to understand how "Normal (Bell Curve) Distributions" work, because that's what they're talking about, the picture becomes more clear. Yes 30 shots will give you a very clear picture of the extreme outer limits of the rifles performance. But there isn't a great way to test that. I would say that taking 30 consecutive shots in one outing is a terrible way of testing it. Rifle heat, mirage off the barrel and shooter fatigue are way more of a contributing factor to that group size than the rifle is.
So while I agree with them, it's almost a worthless test, for anyone but them. Because they have a big mechanized test platform and shoot indoors. Keep in mind, they sell bullets ok. And are promoting 30 shot tests for accuracy? Come on now.
What I CAN tell you is that you can spot "trends" with as little as 1 shot of a given load. I'm going to show you my load development method in this series. It is statistically irrelevant, completely. But it works. I have a pile of rifles that I can take out and shoot 5 shot groups that are under 6 inches at 1,000 yds. I didn't need to shoot 30 shots with any of them to find those loads.
@@LittleCrowGunworks I should apologize for being long-winded but I get inspired by content like this.
First off, I think it is great that you answer nearly every post and question if they are in earnest. A good laugh is welcome but we are seriously interested in all of this, which is, I think, a sign of being ethical. And I like the way you say it. Paraphrased, being ethical does mean ensuring hit probability. We want to hit the animal and bring it down as quickly and successfully as possible.
I have watched those specific podcasts more than once (your groups are too small ep 50, groups are still too small ep 52, the one on mean radius, the recent one on load development where they also get rid of a lot of "noise" in load development. For example, getting too close to the lands does not bring the improvement you think it would) more than once. I would pick up more details with each watching.
Jayden Quinlan, their lead ballistician, speaks precisely to this. Group the rifle for the job.
If doing some kind of PRS, you may need to group at 30 shots, at least. All in all, going past 50 is a point of diminishing returns. And yes, they burned a barrel at 500 rounds and all that did was gain another 1 percent or so of reliability. So, going back to 50 rounds or less, determine with a high enough round count, what your cone of dispersion is. That will also help determine the effect range of that gun for certain jobs. And, after some time, they have learned to rely on 20 rounds. A box of ammo. Buy 2, zero with one box and finish the rest of that box with technique or velocity averaging.
if you are grouping for hunting, then 1 more box is needed. After zeroed and the rifle is cool again, shoot 3 rounds and stop. And if you clean your rifle after each use, it must be cleaned this time, in order to repeat the conditions of operation. The rifle must be completely cool again, as if you had pulled it out of the cabinet and went off into the woods. Shoot another 3 shots. Repeat this 7 times and you have your basic 20 round dispersion. With a percentage as high as we are seeing here in you lesson, that is the likely cone of fire for that rifle. IOW, group the rifle for the job. But also, at least 20 rounds for an idea of what it will do. I watched a guy new to PRS video himself in a match and it was probably about 10 to 20 rounds at that stage.
FWIW, another person has claimed to do 5 cold bore shots. Though I agree with him it is more likely cold shooter. He did one cold bore shot for 5 days. Put together, it was the same dispersion as if he did all 5 shots at one sitting.
If all else is good, then this is the order I have learned for source of error: Highest error is the shooter. Next highest is variances in ammo. Last is the rifle and gear. If things are torqued right and you have some kind of bedding better than plastic, you have the chance to have a rifle be at least 1 MOA. You can hit an IPSC at 1,000 yards. If I was to even get to shoot 1k, it would only be at an IPSC and not a game animal.
I saw first your video on importance of bullet construction, so I came in bass-ackwards. It really has got me to consider changing my 7 PRC from the PH 175 gr ELD-X to the the CX Outfitter for the reasons you mentioned. The mushroom is good but more importantly is the penetration, especially on big game. (In Texas, the toughest I am going to find is Mule Deer and barbary sheep like the Aoudad.)
I liked your statement in another reply here that with something like the 7 PRC in the 160 gr copper, your windage, being an average day, could hold left or right edge of target zone, adjusting only elevation for distance. That reminds me of how Cleckner, author of Long Range Shooting Handbook, relayed his experience as a sniper team leader in the Ranger 1/75. His targets were IPSC size. He would hold left or right edge of target into the wind for a hit.
I hunt on public land, so, I prefer to have a high point to see my kill box. Especially when using a bullet that can make an exit. That way, my backstop is the other side of the creek bed in the middle of two hills. Which means careful selection. If I cannot make an ethical shot that is also safe for me and others, then I cannot take the shot.
As for the CX Outfitter, I saw another video of a guy with cheesy click-bait titles try out that round in his .270. He claimed that the copper bullet is producing 4 to 6 inch dispersion on some rifles, not in others. I have not heard of that and that doesn't make sense. Though I have seen others also shoot the Hornady 7 PRC PH 175 gr and getting an inch or two and pronouncing it 2 MOA ammo. Also, recent claims and even some chrono showing the ELD-X being 150 to 200 fps slower than the box.
I have always thought of the box value as an estimate or best case scenario. Real world use will be slower. Mainly because the factory has to make an average, as they will not know which specific rifle this goes into. For example, mine is in a chassis and the magazine is the AICS for .300 WM. The bullet has a smidgeon of room in there. Of course, the rifle is a standard long action and not a magnum long action. And this was creating a scandal. But the guy with the .270 was also finding that the MV was, on average, 109 fps slower than the box. I bet it is like that with all ammo companies. And if seriously pursuing precision, such as one would in competition or tinkering hunter, you are going to handload and tune your system with seating depth, etcetera.
I think a book length reply is enough for now. 😀
Thank you for the lengthy comment. I don't mind. Naturally I can't address everything you said in the comment. But the important thing is that you are thinking about this critically and you are getting the correct tool for the job. That is the right way to think about this. These are just tools, that's all. They each specialize in something different and none of them are perfect. For us, killing an elk out to 600yds with a 7mm, there isn't a better tool than the 160gr CX. Change the parameters, and it might change our choice for that new job.
I do think people spend too much time on the wrong things. Load development is one of them. But there are way more things that people don't spend nearly enough time on. Practice being the biggest one. Working all the bugs out of their equipment would be second. Getting a good 10 shot zero and figuring out how much error is in your scope would be another thing.
People get so hyper focused on the performance metrics that they lose sight of the things that have WAY MORE effect on whether or not they will actually hit the target.
Thanks for coming along.
This series is phenomenal. I am in the process of determining what I want my tikka action to be barreled as. I have a 280 AI Mark V and I'm thinking of throwing another 280 barrel on my tikka so my wife and I can hunt together and share ammo (If I can find a load they both like) but I've also been thinking of something more modern or fancy. That said I can't bring myself to increase recoil and powder burnt for a 7prc. All my friends who have PRCs are not getting the advertised velocities, and it seems a waste for me...
Thank you for the compliment. It sounds you have your head screwed on straight. That is the point of this series, to give you all the truth and lay out ALL the facts, so you can make an informed decision and select the cartridge that's best for you. Which, in the current climate, is frowned upon and nearly impossible. You're supposed to just lap up the kool-aid and get your wallet out and don't question it... Because it's better, trust us...
I don't think so skippy. I know better.
Yes finally someone who understands
Case capacity determines almost everything, the efficiency thing only applies to the same capacity but a different bore ie. 30-06 vs 338-06 or 7mm08 v 308 , in this case the larger bore is always more efficient up until the point that you can reasonably reach max chamber pressure and 100% powder fill. Other things do apply such as the b.c. of the bullet you can shoot (within reason see video) and velocity capabilities with a certain grain bullet (because of powder capabilities) these small variables along with availability balanced on what you are trying to accomplish is how you choose a chambering for your rifle (or a rifle)
You get it. There is the efficiency thing you mentioned for bore diameter. That's absolutely true. Example, you might get 2700ft lbs out of a 25-06 at max pressure, but you can get over 3800 ft lbs out of a 35 Whelen at max pressure. Same powder volume.
There is also another efficiency improvement as you go up in bullet weight for a given cartridge. Where a 7 whatever, might get 3100 ft lbs at max pressure with a 120gr, but 3500 ft lbs at max pressure with a 195gr.
When you increase the dwell time, the efficiency improves. Adding barrel length, achieves the same effect. Efficiency goes up, for ALL load combinations as the barrel gets longer.
@LittleCrowGunworks yes but obviously the reason to go down in caliber is for that sweet sweet velocity so that you don't have to dial in for every shot with your rainbow gun 😉
Exactly.
Nothing you say should piss anybody off. If somebody gets pissed off, they’re just not mature. Not many people show others or share experiences like you do. Free schooling. They can just go somewhere else and don’t leave anything negative. Otherwise they will be doing what you do. Keep on coming with more videos.
Great Feedback! I agree.
Adults? Some of are. Information is
what we make of it. I've been looking forward to this series and appreciate the time and effort it takes to present it. Thank you.
Thank you for that. It is a bit of extra work to get these things done. But people seem to be appreciating it.
Really liked your video. Good data to back up your personal experience. Deer is my primary hunting focus, but the info will apply. I so have 7-08 and 280 AI rifles, so am interested in the ackley info you’ll present. Thanks for your work to put this together.
Thank you for the kind words. We're hoping the rest of the industry takes note and gets their act together when they compare things. Do it thoroughly or don't waste peoples time.
Thank you for your videos! The language doesn't bother this sailor lol!!! Keep up the great work!!
Hey you're welcome. Thanks for coming along sir!
Love this series so far, learning so much!
Recently bought myself a 7mm Rem Mag in Tikka T3X Varmint (wanted to go for the 7 PRC but here in South Africa component and rifle availability is basically zero). With my very first load development I realised what you made mention of in the first video, the cartridge performance would be limited due to the limitation on the overall length from the tikka magazine. Anyway, started off with a local South African powder, Somchem S365, which has a similar burn rate as N550 (used it becasue this is what I am loading on the 243 and 6.5 creed). This was way down on the case capacity because it was already showing pressure signs at 66gr powder using the 162gr ELDX bullet. Speed was 3110fps. Now I've gotten hold of N560 and using 71.5gr powder and getting 3235fps. Still not using the full case capacity so will probably go to N570 once I've used all the N560 I bought🤦♂All that being said, the rifle is performing like a dream and will do the job on anything I can currently afford to hunt!😝
Thank you for the positive feedback!
You're doing great. Stick with the N560. There is no way on God's Green Earth you will get enough N570 in that case to hit peak pressure. It's not all burning either, not even close. Stick with N560, that's the sweet spot.
@@LittleCrowGunworksor get a 30in barrel 😂
LOL, that won't even do it. Even if you fill the case to the top of the case mouth, so it's spilling out and smash a bullet on it, you will only be at 50k psi, only 93% of it will burn in a 30" barrel and you will lose 160fps from what you're getting now in your shorter barrel. It's WAY too slow for a 7 Rem Mag case size. N570 is even a little slow for the 28 Nosler, which has 16 grains more water capacity.
Stick with 560. It's the perfect powder for the 7 Rem Mag. There isn't a better option.
@LittleCrowGunworks i like my hodgdon powders but i guess the same problem would arise with 7828ssc, im on the rd so i don't have access to my software.
Nope. N560 and IMR 7828SSC are kissing cousins. That would be my other recommendation. But you will get identical velocity at peak pressure with N560 and 7828ssc. You won't gain anything. If anything, you will lose some temp stability by going with 7828 because it's 70yr old technology and doesn't have the same temp stability that N560 has. Not that any of that will matter inside 600yds, because it won't.
How do you check where your beam is on your range finder?
Thank you for the information. I would like to learn more about the length of the 7mm rem mag. I am looking at reloading and building a good load for my rifle.
I'll show you how to determine length. With the right tools, it's pretty easy. Thanks for watching.
Only thing the new fancy cartridges bring to the table is there chamber design is sammi spec from the jump to allow the bullets to be seated out of the case further. Allows for lil more powder capacity and closer to the lands bullet jump
Correct. All the older cartridges are saami spec as well. But the new ones have better freebore and lead angle geometry which helps them shoot well without much fuss.
@@LittleCrowGunworkspretty cool.
I was hoping for a wildcat. Something using the 350 legend case, like to compete with 22 nosler. 22-350 or 7mm350. Great content and thanks for the information
Thanks for watching. No obscure wildcats on this series, but thanks for coming along.
Great content
Thank ya sir! We're trying to raise the bar.
Been shooting and reloading for a very long time. But I am at the beginning 😂😂😂😂
Ha, at least now you know where you are! Thanks for joining the adventure.
For the second column, should we not play with the 3/4 moa when adjusting the extreme spread? I was under the impression that consistency and repeatability yields accuracy so having a better extreme spread should also improve your moa and in turn lead to a larger increase in %. Am I way off there?
Great question. Precision does not equal low extreme spread. You can have a rifle shoot 1/2 MOA at 100yds with an Extreme Spread over 100fps. Now, that WILL show up at long range. But you don't see it at short range.
@@LittleCrowGunworks That helps me understand thank you! Plugged some numbers in after reading your reply and the disparity in velocity is not measurable at 100 yards and the vertical spread due to different velocities at 600 is within an inch up and down. I liked what you said about velocity being the easiest way to improve hit percentage, makes perfect sense and it’s why I’ve been dropping weight and shooting monos out of almost everything. Another thing I wonder is how much your optics hight over bore affects that parabola when talking about hit percentage. When I do the math it’s seems like a low mounted scope and a fast bullet are the two best things a newer shooter can have.
You should also run numbers on the fact that the ballistic coefficient on the box of bullets is the AVERAGE, not absolute. Most Hornady bullets have a .010 to .020 G7 variance.
Meaning if the box says .300 G7, there is everywhere from .290 to .310 in the box.
Don't read too much into the sight height. Those little details get lost in the wash. Like how a one hole rifle should make a huge difference in hit probability, but it doesn't because all of the other variables, swallow up that precision.
Find a balance between high BC and low weight for your application and run it as hot as your cartridge will reasonably allow.
That graph is my trajectory exactly with Handloading. I didn't know anything and then started doing research and watched a lot of videos and listened to podcasts and thought.... Oh, I understand this now. Then after learning more and more (especially around load development) I realized that much of what I "knew" just isn't accurate (pun intended). For example, I don't know how many videos are out there on the "Satterly method" but I feel like I watched them all and when I did my own I just kept feeling like it didn't make much sense to me that so much emphasis was put on "finding the velocity node". But I trusted because SO MANY PEOPLE seemed to do this method. But as I found out after sifting through the BS (and there is a lot of it), basing a load off of very small amounts of data just doesn't make sense. This is just an example, but the same could be said with a number of other popular load development methods. Now I feel like I am on the second slope upward and still realize I don't know ALOT but the things I do know have been vetted and I trust them
Fantastic comment! You just pointed out the problem with the internet. Well, I saw this work for a guy that's a PRS shooter, it's gonna work for me and everyone else.
What people don't realize about Scott Saterlee, is that he was working in "Known Territory". He had already shot out god knows how many barrels with his "Swedemoor" and 115gr Nosler RDF's.
HE KNOWS what velocity his barrels shoot at. Because he spins the dead one off and spins on an IDENTICAL replacement. So he can do a 10 shot test, find his previous velocity and he's off and running!
That doesn't mean it's going to work for every schmuck on the internet. You need to be in explored territory for something like that to work. But they don't tell ya that little piece of information!
I'm happy you are in touch with where you are and that you're coming along.
Thank you for putting this series together. One question; as you go through the different cartridges, I'd be interested to know if some cartridges are more forgiving of shorter barrel lengths compared to others.
I love my 7 PRC and my 270 Win, so naturally, I'm curious about 7mm Rem Mag and 280 AI. Very open to expanding my rifle collection to add more 7mms.
I'm glad you appreciate it. The truth is there aren't any magnums that are forgiving to use short barrels. I will show why in the load development video. "Underbore/efficient" cartridges like a 308 Winchester are the most forgiving for short barrels. Unfortunately there are no free rides.
But I'll lay out what I mean soon. Thanks for watching.
It sounds like Nosler brass falls outside of your criteria of what you would call good brass? Thank you, enjoying the videos.
You are correct.
This is good stuff
Thanks for the support!
hi i just got to your channel 12 minutes in 😬
i just love your style 100 👍up
honestly and straight talk that’s what matters
thank
i am gone keep learning 😉
Thank you for the support! Cut through the BS! Thanks for following along.
Love this series. I knew that I knew little, know I know I don’t know enough. If you offend folks, that’s a them problem not a you problem. If folks have no audio on there tv, turn off surround sound in the videos settings…NOT your tv, I had that issue only on my tv, not tablet or phone
Thanks for the positive feedback! Admitting where you are in the process is the first step.
I think it’s important to not overcorrect on BC in the other direction. I know you are trying to make a point on the BC craze, and I agree with you on the outer end.
But the 7mm is the best case caliber and in reality folks are shooting bullets that are way worse on aerodynamics than the Interlock 175 you ref here.
Just take the deadly 150 grain green mushroom as example for the old fashioned SPs out there - G1 BC of .346 vs. the Interlock with .462.
And things get way more pronounced on other calibers and cartridges. Great oddball example is the 35 Whelen where a 225 standard AccuBond with a pedestrian .43 makes everything else look like a barn door 😂
I used the 175 Interlock because it is the same weight as the 175 ELDX. Using 150gr and under, dumpy bullets isn't relevant for the discussion. Nobody with any sense is shooting a 150gr Core Lokt at 600yds for any reason, unless it's on a bet and beer is involved.
There are a million examples I could have used. The 3 I chose adequately made the point. As indicated by the comments.
@@LittleCrowGunworks as said, I agree with your position and yes the InterIock made sense.
What I was trying to say is that there is still a sizable population of hunters with their Partitions and other classics that would do well thinking about BC, even at 300 yards.
For example I ran the numbers for a friend with a 20“ 300 WM on a 190 grain ABLR vs. the 180 grain .35 G1 BC factory load he currently uses. At 200 yards the ABLR is over 600 ft-lb ahead
Oh ok. Now I get what you're saying. Yes it matters at all ranges.
Excellent intro 😂😂
Sarcasm…. What’s that
Ha! I was thinking about it, and I thought :How can I make this point?, I know! Felix and Oscar!"
Thanks for the support!
No, thank you! I guess my biggest takeaway from this would be that you can’t buy what you need to be repeatedly successful with long range shooting. Wind and range calls drive success and that only really comes with experience.
Great equipment helps, great ammo helps, but there is no substitution for experience.
Thanks for watching.
Super vidéo i learn a lot
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!
Awesome video. Quick question, is there really something like a an overbore cartridge when it comes to powder load to energy at the muzzle? My intuition is that this statement is only true if you consider standard length barrels. More powder with a long enough acceleration path should result in comparable efficiency (minus some friction losses, granted).
I am a handloader and picking the right powder for shorter barrels leads to a very linear loss per inch of barrel all other things being equal. Thx
I think your intuition is correct. However, the barrel length becomes ridiculously impractical. In the off the cuff example I used in the video between the 308 Winchester and the 300 Ultra Mag. I just punched that into the Gordon's program and the results were just crazy.
So, I was able to simulate 3000 ftlbs with 44.10grs of X powder in a 26" barrel and a 180gr bullet. Which resulted in 35.6 Effective Efficiency Rate and 68.07 ftlbs per grain of powder. Which is outstanding efficiency compared to most things.
In order to reach the same efficiency rate and ftlbs per grain with the 300 Ultra Mag, I needed 94 grs of X powder, which pushed a 225gr ELDM at 3578 fps and 6393 ftlbs!!!
But the simulation required a 72 inch barrel to get there!!!!
Now whether that would actually play out in reality, I don't know. I assume the friction wouldn't scale in a linear fashion due to jacket deterioration. Maybe with a solid bullet it would be ok.
In theory, you're correct. But in practical reality, overbore = inefficiency.
If your loss is linear in shorter barrels then you are using a burn rate that is too fast for the cartridge, the load density is low and you should have picked a smaller cartridge. That's a universal truth. If velocity loss per inch of barrel is linear, either the powder is too fast or the cartridge is too big for the barrel length or some combination of both.
@@LittleCrowGunworks thx a lot, I’ll marinate on the burn rate advice. Great to hear that you use GRT. That’s what I am using as well and so far the simulations have been quite accurate vs. Reality. Real shame that Gordon is no longer with us.
Just got my Garmin Xero today, so I‘ll soon test GRT against one real oddball. Lehigh Xtreme Cavitator 85 grain in a .308 Win 😁
It's very useful with the number of bullet and powder combinations out there. The published data just can't keep up. I have mentioned this to others, but, not one of my finished handloads for ANY rifle is published anywhere.
Gordon's is a great way to at least find a place to start and see what powders will burn 100% before the bullet exits the muzzle. I agree, I have found it to be incredibly accurate when the inputs are good. Actual measured case capacity and cartridge overall length are critical to getting accurate estimates. Yeah, it's too bad about Gordon. At least his bride is willing to keep it alive for awhile.
Those oddball bullets are hard to get accurate estimates on. You basically have to find something similar, then change the bullet dimensions to match what you're using. Then play with the Initial Pressure and Bullet Resistance, until the predictions match actual. Then you should have something worth using for predictions going forward.
I know I've already posted replies on this video, but I'm definitely looking forward to the series, and you're correct considering the eldx on bigger game.
One of my best friends shot a moose twice in the shoulder scapula with the 200gr with his 30-06, and spined it on the third shot.
When butchering, both bullets were flattened against the scapula, which isn't that thick of a bone, so complete nonfatal shots.
I've got around 7 out of 8 exits with the 110 accubond in 257wby on elk with broadside shots, and have had great penitration on shoulder bone shots with the same combo, so my experience with the accubond differs from yours, but I get your point.
You've probably seen more elk killed than me, but this isn't really the point of the series.
Although I've killed a handful of antelope it 600yds+ on cold windless days, when it comes to long range shooting i know nothing more than small amounts, so im really looking forward to the no bs long range and cartridge knowledge.
Thanks
Hey I don't mind multiple comments.
Yeah, I speak in generalities on some of these things. Some bullets I mentioned will exit depending on the circumstances. The point is that monolithics will exit under the widest variety of circumstances, shot angles, shot placement, etc. Because they expand the least and retain the most weight. So they slow down the least and have the least drag when passing through an animal.
@LittleCrowGunworks Thanks for being fine with the messages, and it's good to understand that you're talking about the highest probability, and I would never dispute that monolithics exit more with a higher probability.
I'm happy you understand that. With any of this stuff, I'm speaking in generalities. You can't say anything with certainty when there are so many variables at play. It's a game of probabilities. Hit probability, exit probability, blood trail probability, etc.
@@LittleCrowGunworks I agree