Rob Rinder reads a judge's moving letter to two children after a bitter custody case
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 11. 2023
- In March 2017, at the end of a particularly bitter custody case that resulted in the father being granted indirect contact with his three children, a clinical psychologist advised the presiding judge, Sheriff Aisha Anwar, to break from tradition and delicately communicate the Scottish court’s decision to those children by letter. The psychologist then read the letter to its recipients. With the names of all parties anonymised, Sheriff Anwar’s missive was then published by the court to wide acclaim.
To read it, Rob Rinder joined us at Letters Live at Wilderness Festival, UK, in August 2023.
© Sheriff Anwar, March 2017 - Zábava
Some parents should never have access to their kids.
This will resonate differently to people depending on their own history.
Years ago, when my foster son refused to see his parents, the judge gave him a speech that sounded a lot like this letter.
Something like "they had made mistakes but they want to do better, you should give them another chance and forgive"
My foster son refused. I never forced him to have any contact with his parents, and he is all the better for this.
All this to say, for some of you this letter sounds heartwarming, but it sounds like manipulation and guilt trip to me.
It takes a lot for a child to refuse to see a parent.
So if those children don't want to see their father, abide by their decision, they have their reasons.
Yes, but this may be a case where the mother have been poisoning the well so to speak regarding the childs father, even when it might not be the intention.
I know this from personal experience, where as my wife was unfaithful and a child resulted from that. We still live together and are quite happy even 10 years later, but she has a tendency to disparage and generally speak ill about the other father, even when his child can hear it, I try to tell her that she should not do that, that it is not a good thing to hear another parent speak ill about your other parent. I do not think she does this out of malice towards him, but sometimes she has a lapse of judgement and do say quite bad things about his father.
So what I am saying is that we do not have the full context of this case so we should not make to much of a sweeping judgement.
And generally I agree with you if there is sufficient abuse or neglect involved they should be listened to, but forcing the kid to stay in his room or being a bit rough when washing might be the extent, and in my mind that is not enough not to give the father a second chance especially if the father realizes what his actions make the kid feel, ofc you should not FORCE the child to see the father.. never that, but you should explain why you think it is a good idea to keep in touch with the father. Because looking at the statistics, children without their father, generally are very much more worse off in regards to crime, drugs, general performance in life etc than those who have both a father and mother involved in their life, even if they do not live together on a permanent basis.
The evidence, clear evidence, in the judges statement indicates differently. She may have indeed poisoned the well, but it's clear to me that it was already putrid.@@nkari8971
I am not second-guessing your foster son's decision. But it is disappointing that you would think a judge would take their time to write a difficult letter to deliberately guilt-trip a child about anything.
Family court judges are required to make difficult and sometimes terrible decisions. They certainly do not do things to deliberately harm anyone, let alone children whom they are tasked with putting first, above all else.
You can of course disagree with a judge's decision - that's why we have an appeals process.
But I would hope that someone with your experience as a foster parent, who works with and is paid by local authorities to look after children from the most difficult backgrounds, would understand that judges do what they think is right by the child.
As someone who's had to go no contact first with one parent - in my teens - and with the other when I turned 40, I really appreciate your comment. I was forced to have contact with my father when I was a child and it compounded the damage. I'm so happy for the children you foster, you sound great 😊
EXACTLY! "He washed you, and was a bit rough" NOOOOO!!! Keep him away.
Former social worker here.... Couldn't agree more. As a society we care more about parent's rights to own thier child than the child's to emotional and physical safety
I don't know all the specifics of the situation but this letter made my skin crawl and has left me feeling a little nauseated. It's giving me flash backs of the times that well meaning people tried to pressure me into reuniting with my abusive parents. The incredible damage these people did to my life and mental health out of ignorance and arrogance. Being a sperm donor is not the same thing as being a father.
I have two loving parents, but I've witnessed what it looks like when someone does not. I had the same reaction as you. I just hope the judge is certain that the father is careless, not uncaring. The line "sometimes he didn't care about your feelings ... That doesn't make him a bad father", really didn't sit right with me. I'm pretty sure caring about your kids is a minimum requirement.
😢I understand
I thought the same.
Agreed, talk about mansplaining, grossed me out.
I totally agree. This letter is full of garbage, the standard "forgiveness" clause that causes expectation that the hurt will forgive the abuser and continue to give them more chances. The abuser not facing consequences. I'm ashamed of this judge.
This letter sounds very much like a lack of perspective and knowledge of the situation by someone who is trained in law but not child psychology. While im sure he was well-meaning, he instead makes the same mistake many ppl in stable home situations make by assuming that this can get better if the father just tries hard enough. Incomplete assessments make for bad consequences
I like what the judge did here, but as a former social worker, all I can see is too kids being put back with a potentially abusive father whose behavior is likely to escalate. Seen it soooooooo many times. Why do we think that it is better for kids to be abused then to not have en Intact 'nuclear' family....
Wow, this letter really makes me feel uneasy... This letter to an adult is already quite difficult to handle, but to a child, that's pure manipulation !
I really believe that the point of justice is to protect people, not to obey to some arbitrary "sacred" law based on traditions.
Having a good dad is a great thing in life. But if you don't, there is no point to force people to have a dad at all, whatever customs and traditions may says.
When a child is unhappy, he is saying so. And when problem grows even bigger and the child stop speaking at all, he keps demonstrate so.
Being a parent is a gigantic responsibility. It is normal to fail at it. But it is not normal to force children to suffer from it.
Yet, forcing the dad to write a monthly letter is a good thing, for at least child can keep having choice to see him in futur if they want to.
This letter made me realize how lucky I was to have a women judge during my parents divorce/custody battle. She made it clear that her decision to give my mom full custody was based on the actions he showed in the first 12 years of my life (verbal and emotional abuse) not his plan to be a “better father” in the future. I owe that judge my life; because I know I wouldn’t be here if she gave him even 5 minutes of custody. ❤
My parent was arrested when I was 14. The police did nothing with us. They came to search the house while we waited for our natural born guardian to return from wherever. it was the first sign of their wherabouts. They moved around us, not looking at us in the face, while they took knives to all our furniture and cracked open all of our appliances.
They ignored our questions while dismantling our (rented) cabinets and windows. My parent had been arrested with some drugs on them while they were stealing some copper wire from a defunct and shuttered facility for the national guard.
They left us there after, in our shattered (rented) home until the landlord came by to let us know that if the rent wasn't paid, we would have to leave. My sibling was 10 years old. We had nowhere to go. I wrote off my parent then. I wrote off a lot of things that I had once thought good or important. This hadn't been the first atrocity. My parent died a few months ago, after 26 years of me not speaking to them and rarely thinking of them. I was better for it. Some people shouldn't have had kids. Some things you can't take back.
Will never meet or know you, your comment had me in tears, hit hard. Sending best wishes, and I will remember your comment
Jesus Christ! What a heavy burden to drop on children. The adults need to sort it out, and not ask children to work through their mess.
I think it's respectful to the children to ask them what they're thinking. I mean, this wouldn't work if they were toddlers, but assuming they were at least 8 or 9, I think it was very well done.
Exactly. He’s not asking what they’re thinking. He’s just trying to justify dumping the responsibility in their laps. Awful person
I would say that by the time these children got this letter from the judge and the psychologist they had already had a ‘heavy burden’ put on them by their warring parents. It’s hardly as if children are unaware of family problems since they can sense ‘atmosphere’ very well! They are often not emotionally equipped to deal with their parents fights - and why should they have to? I found this to be a well-presented letter, in age appropriate language. Then again I think the current adversarial system of ‘family justice’ is out of touch with the times. Besides - this was written by a Scottish judge to a Scottish family - and as a Scot myself it makes good sense. YMMV.
Wow, how many screw ups is this dad allowed to have before they stop trying to guilt trip the kids into seeing him?
That was a manipulative guilt trip forced on a child, I call that abuse. The upside is there was no court order that the children had to either read or answer the letter.
I'm so deep into family law at university right now that I instantly knew which case this was. Both fascinating and complicated.
Beautifully spoken, I feel like the weight of those words have healed a bit of my heart ❤️🩹
This judge thinks he knows more about the real person, when he’s just getting the best-foot-forward version this man presented in a legal setting? Those children know what he’s really like. I am appalled. At least it’s just a letter, which they don’t have to read if they don’t want to.
The judge is a woman. Your misogyny is showing.
"I don't believe your Dad meant to be mean to you. He just didn't think about how you would feel". What??!!
May I suggest that treating his children horribly, even if his intentions were not bad, DOES make him a bad father (or guilty of bad fathering at times). If the dad's intentions were not bad, that matters; but intentions are not enough. Lacking bad intentions does not mean one is successfully raising and nurturing the next generation. Lacking bad intentions does not mean one is not inflicting life-long harm. Fathers can have wakeup calls and can change for the better, but how about the dad getting help for a few months and then assessing whether or not he is improving before making the choice that he should have access to his kids.
This is going to resonate with a lot of people. Gender swap this and it seems very familiar to me, and would to my kids. But our judge didn't even speak to my kids. There's a presumption of inadequacy for male parents in our court system. But I still ended up with full custody eventually. I guess maybe the judge should have checked in with them.
Beautiful - and brave. I wouldn't have been able to read that letter and hold myself together as Judge Rinder did. Really great reading, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing :-)
Nope nope nope. It is on the dad to be a good dad and, per what was said here, he has not been a good dad. Don't put it on the children to make things better.
The people talking in the background are distracting.
Yes, rude.
What a horrible list of transgressions on the part of the father. These things DID make him a bad dad, and I can't understand why the judge would come down so heavily on his side. I think it's appalling. The children have decided they don't like him and don't want to be with him. They should be left with their mother, and if the father still wants contact they should maybe consider thinking about this when the youngest child is 18! They don't have to grown up thinking dad was 'bad'. He was bad. That's good enough for me!
I’m not going to defend cursing at your child, but if you really think that’s the height of abuse and deserving of never allowing the father to see their kid again then I think you lack some perspective.
If people are taking actionable steps to be better than you shouldn’t punish them anyways.
Why did it receive wide acclaim? The dad locked the child in a room and sometimes didn't care about their feelings. No loving parent only cares sometimes, they care all the time. Sounds manipulative to me but then I had a father like that and know the signs
There is so much missing context here. The letter is well written, and the reading is excellent, but lacks any actual details of the custody situation. So it just sounds like a judge telling kids to see their abusive father, despite them stating that they don't want to.
Who was talking through this? I kept hearing voices. So rude.
This was very unusual but empathetic and human. ❤
Hear a lot of people chit-chatting in the background.
❤I LOVE THESE
Beautiful ❤
I hope it worked out ok
That was a wonderful letter .
Should be titled "shitty abusive dad finds the perfect advocate to gaslight his kids"
Rob makes me powerful,calm and relaxed. He brings people good heart. Love him so much in my bottom of my heart❤❤❤😢😢
In Adulthood I cut my Father from my life. I could no longer bear trying to be diplomatic. He was a manipulatiing and controlling person but had a 2nd family to be with. I could let go knowing he had a suppirt network around him and in letting go, his 2nd family would no longer have the distubance of his first family in it.
❤
Wow!!!
Wow! Amazing letter, threads the needle nicely.
Excellent judgment.
What a wise and just Sheriff 👏.
I believe Solomon went through this very same chore. There are ways to see thru a liar who has ulterior motives for wanting child custody. So much so that they study many resources that teach them how to act and what judges look for. How to set up their homes in time for the court visit so they have everything just so. When we first discussed separating my former husband’s true motive came out so that only I knew. He said, “I will never pay you a dime.”
Chitchatting in the background, so rude.
The most interesting thing here is less the letter & more that almost all the comments are informed by the commenter mapping their own feelings & experience onto these children when deciding if the judge was correct. The judge likely did the same which suggests there is rarely an entirely good outcome in these cases whichever way the gavel falls.
I’m glad I don’t have to navigate a minefield of emotionally invested people who may or may not be truthful or misleading who also have enormous sway over the perspectives of their young children.
What a wonderful Judge.
A judge and a sheriff?
I think that’s his name. Sharif Anwar.
@@sallyomahony1108 Actually, it's part of each, it's the Scottish legal system's version of a judge and HER title and name is Sheriff Principal Aisha Anwar of Glasgow and Strathkelvin.
@@Bobs-Wrigles5555 I was going by the surname and the way he pronounced it.
@@sallyomahony1108 It's also in the visible section of the description of the video(if you are on a PC), but I can understand people not being aware of how Scottish and for that matter English legal rankings are titled, but here's a hint you may have heard before "Sheriff of Nottingham"😀
@@Bobs-Wrigles5555 I didn’t have the description on, and yes, I have heard of him and the Scottish one, but as it was a personal letter, I’m sticking with it being his name.
Frequently parents require a lesson or full instruction of a "how to " more often than not. Some just a reminder jolt to reopen what always was prior to losing the availability of regaining. Yes dear child, it's your choice to make now. I do hope you ponder while making your choice if you would feel no remorse if you close the door of opportunity to attempt to reunite. Some day the time will come when it will be lost forever.
And many do not regret their choice to keep that door closed. Not every parent deserves their children.
Judging from the fact that the "chance" the judge is offering is a monthly letter from their dad, and the fact that he felt compelled to explain why he's allowing it, I'm guessing their dad is currently a guest of the Crown, probably on permanent basis, and is forever not allowed anywhere near children.
That is a GREAT deal to infer from what was said.
@@DocFlamingo from your comment I'm guessing your name is Mike and you live in the Maldives
@@n_tas And that is a hell of an inferral from somebody disagreeing.
It sounds to me like the children do not want to see their dad again, and he's pulled some real POS moves. But I think if he'd been sent to prison, the judge would have mentioned that in the letter, no?
@@n_tas Eh?
Wonderful psycologist and a wonderful empathetic judge
Judge Rinder, when we together, no one can separate us because we both have a different heart of standards, that bind together as 1 ❤
That was excellent. I forwarded that to my own kids. Society very rarely considers the emotional damage a divorce has on men. Men lose more than money and possessions during a divorce. Some men never truly recover from there loses.
Rinder and Hawley make the best judges of defence, for the love of both countries which are a perfect match because sorry seems to be the hardest words. But with a heart that can lead to a final seal of a judgement of justice. 😂
So it’s all dad’s fault. Mum”s perfect.
How immature... It was a custody battle and the kids felt scarred because of the treatment they got from the father... Are you going to tell them how they should feel regarding their personal experience??? The judge went an extra mile to make the kids give their dad a second chance, to which the mother agreed... did you not hear it until the end ??
You missed the point of the letter, didn't you?
Your misogyny is showing.
The letter is literally explaining how emotionally abusive their father was but w/e because mom is the evil one because woman.
That's not what has been said at all.