Building a High Tech 440ci High-Compression Dry-Sump EFI Small Block - Engine Power S10, E11-12
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2023
- All New Engine Power Episode: We’re putting together a dry-sump 440ci Road Race engine with high-compression, high-flowing heads, and high-quality parts for Carcass’ 1972 Split-Bumper Camaro racecar. This one has a unique foundation with an aftermarket block that combines a conventional SBC bottom end and LS induction for a hybrid powerplant. To make sure it’s ready for the track, we load it with high-octane race fuel and put it through its paces on the dyno!
PARTS USED IN THIS EPISODE
ARP
Head Bolt Kit World Motown LS Iron Block with LS Series Heads
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Edelbrock
COMP Cams: World's top manufacturer of high-quality performance-based internal engine components.
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Edelbrock
Edelbrock: Driving the future of automotive performance.
pntv.us/pn_pt_21910_64c8039e1...
Edelbrock
TCI Automotive: Leading provider of high performance automatic transmissions, torque converters, and drivetrain components.
pntv.us/pn_pt_21911_64c80414a...
Summit Racing
Cometic MLS Head Gasket
pntv.us/pn_pt_21908_64c2bd057...
Summit Racing
Summit Racing Pro GPX Gas Ported Piston Rings
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Summit Racing
Summit Racing Pro Ring Filer
pntv.us/pn_pt_21913_64c806e2c...
CWT Industries
Multi-Bal 5500
Jesel Inc.
Jesel Belt Drive Kit
K1 Technologies
K1 Technologies Chevrolet 350 Crankshaft
Late Model Engines
Crower Rocker Arms
Late Model Engines
LME Billet Intake LS7 Manifold
Late Model Engines
LME CID LS7 Cylinder Heads
Late Model Engines
LME LS Tall Billet Valve Covers
Manley Performance
Manley Pro-Series I-Beam Connecting Rods
Sunnen Products Company
Sunnen SV-15 Honing Machine
Wiseco Performance Products
Wiseco Flat Top Pistons
World Products
Motown LS Iron Block
ARP
ARP Fasteners
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ARP
ARP Head Bolt Kit
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ARP
Bolts & Studs, Engine & Accessory Fastener Kits
pntv.us/pn_pt_21966_64fa17948...
Comp Cams
COMP Cams Camshaft
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Comp Cams
COMP Cams Pushrods
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Comp Cams
COMP Cams Sportsman Solid Roller Lifters
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Holley
CAM Sensor, Crank Sensor, MAP Sensor, MAT Sensor
pntv.us/pn_pt_21968_64fa1b467...
Holley
Crank Trigger Kits
pntv.us/pn_pt_21957_64fa13fd3...
Holley
Dominator EFI Kit
pntv.us/pn_pt_21967_64fa19f58...
Holley
Holley EFI Smart Coil Packs
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Holley
MSD Spark Plug Wires
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Holley
Sniper EFI Throttle Body
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Summit Racing
Connecting Rods
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Summit Racing
ATI Super Damper Harmonic Balancer
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Summit Racing
Cometic MLS Head Gaskets
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Summit Racing
COMP Cams Valvetrain Assembly Spray
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Summit Racing
Moroso Oil Pan
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Summit Racing
Summit Racing Pro GPX Gas Ported Piston Rings
pntv.us/pn_pt_21945_64f9ec770...
Summit Racing
Total Seal Piston RIng Assembly Lube
pntv.us/pn_pt_21946_64f9ece9b...
Earl's Performance Plumbing
Hoses and Fittings
Goodson Shop Supplies
Sunnen Cylinder Honing Supplies
Goodson Shop Supplies
Sunnen Portable Bore Hone Driver, Honing Stones, Truing Sleeve, and Dresser
Jesel Inc.
Jesel Belt Drive Kit
Jones Racing Products
Accessory Drive
K1 Technologies
K1 Technologies Chevrolet 350 Crankshaft
Late Model Engines
Crower Rocker Arms
Late Model Engines
Custom Valve Cover
Late Model Engines
Intake Manifold
Late Model Engines
LME CID LS7 Cylinder Heads
Manley Performance
Manley Pro-Series I-Beam Connecting Rods
Moroso
Moroso Dry Sump Pump
Shacklett Automotive Machine
Machine Work
Wiseco Performance Products
Wiseco Flat Top Pistons - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I built 440 cu. in. small blocks in 1972 for my late model modified circle track car. Bob Gillean at Dearborn Crank shaft did the 4 1/8 billet crankshaft. Dave Crower ground the small base circle camshaft. I designed and machined the custom 4340 connecting rods and fabricated the 180 degree headers. 4 1/8 by 4 1/8. Many comments on Western Pa. Circle track websites. Clate Husted was my driver.
SPINTRON... ANOTHER innovation from the genius of Smokey Yunick, who called it the Smoketron!! 😊 He was the first to use an electric motor to spin an engine and use high speed photography to observe what was actually happening in an engine while running!! AMAZING!! 😊
700hp all natty?! hell yes!!!!turbos, blowers, and superchargers are cool and all but nothing beats the sound of a naturally aspirated big cam V8 with a lopey idle and breathing fire at 8000 RPM!!!
How about the sounds of the laughing when a bolt on car with a blower goes past this high dollar build?
At this power level it has good torque response and can spin up and it's a flexible more durable engine. Dependable for racing
Easy to make 700hp in a race engine all motor. Almost impossible in a street engine you want to live a long time.
Running a crossplane V8 to 8000rpm is a thing most people never experience. Unless you go to tractor/truck pulls lol.
Track days too
With the budget these guys have they should be getting at least 9000rpm.. 8000 is easy.
@@davidgalea6113 10,000RPM! Aim higher.
Go to a dirt track. 8000 is low.
@@InvaderSS670 Even higher than 10k is possible (project spinal tap) just not practical which is why I went with 9k.For some reason high rpm is never done on these shows, its where the real technical knowledge is vs bolting stuff on, high boost, high compression, high displacent has been done plenty of times and easy in comparison to reliable high rmp.
The Com Cam was a thing of beauty!
So far this has been my favourite engine build.
Love watching you guys build everything from a basic 6 banger to the high power stuff. I wish I could have you guys build me a striker for my 2004 Jeep TJ. Six Banger by you guys would make my experience so much better.
Watching this show as a kid back in the early 2000’s, all I cared about was V8’s and muscle cars. Watching as an adult now, it’s all their In-line 6 projects that I can’t get enough of. The slant 6, the strokers, the Ford 300. So damn cool.
I believe this is my new favorite episode from Engine Power! I grew up a huge fan of small block Chevy's with a 1973 Blazer with the 350, before owning a pair of Camaro's with the LS3. So this was like the best of both worlds for me lol.
Dam 765 lift 783 lift wow that will rev to the moon son of a gun ive never ran a cam that big nice !!
I’ve used TCI transmissions since the eighties. I’ve hit three 727 And one 904 in trucks/ cars now and cannot say enough good about their top shelf products and after purchase support! Best ppl to deal with. MOPAR2YA 😎
Nice build.. ! i did a 440 SBC with 11:1 c/r 18 degree NASACR heads with 2- piece Bow tie intake , 1 7/8 ‘’ stepped headers . Camshaft has around .700 lift and solid roller … dyno showed 675 hp @ 600 lbs .. all under 6800 RPM .. We went with a light weight aluminum sprint car block .. i should have went with the SP-2 heads but chose not to at the time…Everyone i talk too says the DYNO numbers are very reliable and not overstated 42:49 ..🇺🇸🏁😎
What nascar heads did you use? Sb2.2? Ford guy myself so not familiar.. wouldn't it be great if nascar still used normal heads/blocks/parts (the kind you can bolt on to a traditional small blocks).. nascar parts were a treasure trove of used parts but ever since 2009 nothing interchanges/ can be used with oldschool parts..the heads need a special block, no more carbs, no ford 9 inch, no 4 speed etc etc..
Your build doesn't sound much different from my 10.7 to 1 399ci 1st gen 89 octane street stroker. 3.625 crank, 4.155"+ bore, 260/266@.050.......679/668...110 lsa solid roller, GM Performance 2 piece intake, Brodix 261cc. 18* C-Series milled to 17*, QFT 950 Black Diamond.......641hp@6400 and 560ft lbs.@5700.
@@heshtesh Cool ..! I made a turtle and bolted it in the manifold plenum and picked up 5 hp…easy to do on the 2 piece intake.. good luck..!
@@davidgalea6113 yeah the SB2.2 are better than the 18 degree i used.. i kind of agree it would be better if NASCAR used the everyday traditional race stuff … But Toyota ruined all that stuff because all their race engine stuff is just that T.R.D….! You cannot buy any X Toyota race engines and build your own engines..! The engines are sealed units..During the MID 80’s Ford cylinder heads did have a advantage that really showed up on the Big super ovals and it took a little time for dodge and Chevrolet to catch up ..Yes the 9’’ type rear end was standard in Nascar cup , but did you know a GM 12bolt type dropout uses les horse power to run than a 9’’ but rules don’t allow it..! Of course the 9’’ is gone and they now have a weak independent unit…
Holy shit, thats the comp cams in Memphis! I know the guys that work there, seeing them on camera is so cool! Shout out!
Me too😂 My tool and die teacher in Jackson was a CNC programmer at Comp before his new career and got us a tour out there and introduced us to a lot of guys. I’ve seen Mr.Reed several, several times at Jackson Dragway.
@@huntercollins5799 Yup, the black dude comes up to our shop all the time to talk to our manager and service advisor at the end of the day. Super chill guy.
My god, that belt is all over the place!
Something I'd enjoy seeing is someone recreate what could have been the olds w 43. Have been wondering if a rocket racing or mondello block with valley hemi heads may work to pull that set up off.
Man I love these big small blocks. I used to always run 350s, 383s and I still own a couple but I really like my new 434. In my C10, with a power glide with 3.42 gears...it's an absolute handful. It runs n/a like my old 383 on a 125-150 shot. And to top it off, it's now a hydraulic roller cam and I love not having to lash valves all the time. I talked to Nolan at Isky Cams and told him what I was building, he spent a good while talking to me and he recommended the perfect cam for my combo. Just enough low end torque to be streetable and tons of midrange and top end power. I plan to wire and plumb my new nitrous express kit this winter, the engine is built for spray
I'm glad that the SBC can finally take advantage of LS cylinder head flow. There's only so much you can do with a 23 degree valve angle.
These blocks have been out for a long time. Like 10-15 years I think but they are pricey!
You guys ever thought about doing friction reduction on your engines? I have the test schedule to do so. I used to be a Engine Test Engineer with one of the Big 3. Friction reduction could add 3-ish% to ANY engine's output simply by following the Test Schedule - FOR FREE! That would be nearly 22HP on this engine!
Incredible. Gonna file this build away in my list lol.
You two do a awesome job
It's nice to see them take all this time making a cam but they have to get it together with the lifters. I've personaly had 3 lifter failures in 5 years.
Springs as well...
What lifters brand failed on you. Isky max bushed are the best
Run the isky max bushed lifters and you shouldn't have anymore failures
thats crazy i would have not thought of this combo i would love to see more hybrid 350 small block combo for i deas on a 1994 or older tahoe to Suburban applications
Great engine for the Tahoe
best episode yet
there's a "ton" of tons in this
An LS Small Block Chevy bottom end is stronger than a conventional SBC. Badass build though🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲💪💪💪
Man I loveeee engine power good stuff
An amazing engine going into a beautiful car.
Make the same motor a two stroke and I'll be impressed.
One day I want to see a big block mercruiser built
Nice job on the engine
440 CI, LS7 top end and you made 31 more HP than the basic 416 LS3 stroker Richard Holdner used in his Rec Port LS intake test using the stock LS3 intake manifold. I would have expected this combination to push over 700HP.
Absolute perfection!!!!!👍😸
It’s great to see these parts being made in the good old USA. Buy American. No more chinese junk.
Why for street racing, not an aluminum block???
Less weight equals faster lap times.
I’d love to see a build using this same road racer engine ethos to a Vortec 4200 or a 261. The 261, like that 300 y’all built, would benefit from modern witchcraft. But that 4200 could sing & maybe even hunt down some of these V8 builds.
I would like to here more engines being built to at least 8k rpm again 😂😂
Good job on the safety. You don’t need eye protection.
Why would anyone prefer a gen 1 bottom end over the LS 6 bolt main?
Im still scratching my head! The guys asked for something relieable that can take a beaten nd they go and build something with no track records
@@holeshot1721 I think most of the builds are based on who want to pay for product placement or at least donates parts. These blocks seem pointless and who would use those rings and pistons in a build like this?
The blocks designed for people to be able to swap in all thie gen1 sbc stuff including mechanical fuel pump and timing set but be able to take advantage of 15° Symmetrical port ls heads
@@jacobkite5497 yup great idea buy a $3500 block instead of a $50 fuel pump and a $100 set of mounts. Only if you are class rule limited.
Comp owns just about every speed parts business there is. Anyone else notice that prices have basically doubled in the last 10 years? They don't need to charge those prices for their products. Selling them at half the price they are now would allow a LOT more people to afford the hobby.
Goddam welfare mentality. Comp are a business, not a charity. 🙄
The price on EVERYTHING had more than doubled o er the last 10years.
The dollar lost it's value. Wake up.
That was wild to see.
Would have been nice if more detail went into explaining exactly why you went with a conventional bottom end and what the advantage were over the ls platform
All right, let's check it out.
There were plenty of old beat up Camaros to hack up into a race car.
Nice
getting anything from Edelbrock/comp cams for a AMC 390 took 10+months
Sorry. I robbed all the good parts from the junkyard.
They need to make a home made 6.8L DOHC 40V Triton V10 by using 4 sets of 4.6L 4V Cobra heads by cutting-em and welding-em as well as porting and polishing the modified Cobra heads, use some custom made camshafts from either Comp cams or Lunati, and a custom home made intake manifold and man you have you're self a Homemade 6.8L DOHC 40V Triton V10 making over 700 HP NA with some custom Homemade parts as well as some beefed up factory parts.
Could just boost a 3V.....
@jamesgeorge4874 Yeah but it won't be as reliable as a Homemade NA 4V V10.
@@CJColvin because "homemade 4V 10's" have a stellar track record ? I know of 1......
The V10's in general have a great track record. About to hit 600k, myself.
@@donaldgminski8621 Awesome brother
Question: Why aren't cams heat treat again after completion?
The final machining doesn't heat the material enough to change the material hardness.
Heat treating causes distortion, so you have to final machine afterwards.
Cool build, but I have 0 idea why anyone would want an old SBC block instead of one of the many nice LS ones.
Better bay-to-bay breathing on the OG small block vs LS blocks. Splayed 4 bolt mains are plenty strong enough to handle what these guys are building it for. Plus, since the block is OG small block, there's less fab to be done to bolt it in most things that originally ran small blocks.
@@p.d.3192 I had the same reaction as @bobqzzi and your suggestions did occur to me, but at this point there are tons of LS parts and it seems like they had to have several custom parts made to work with this hybrid block. The only thing I can think of is the oil pump on the LS is quite different than the older SBC so maybe that is the reason.
Oiling issues.
@@Timmayytoohe explains why from 1:45 - 2:10
Should have used a Dart.
Just curious Frankie, did u weigh the rings, wrist pin, and locks with the piston and rods when you balanced it. The video just shows the piston and rods being weighed so I was curious
I-Beams on an extreme road race engine? -U10
Man that's absolutely awesome that combination would have made even more power and more torque with a big CID CNC 4500 series single plane with a big 4500 series throttle body that 102 is too small for that combination
I think this manifold makes better torque
I'd like to see a dyno comparison VS an LS bottom end. I wonder what the windage differences are. If better windage is desired I"d probably go with a PROPERLY knife edged crank than drilling holes to balance. My guess is windage differences are probably minimal with a dry sump.
I would have used arp studs for the heads and mains if possible.
Love these guys
All this in Mississippi… olive branch
Is like 30 to 40 minutes from me
146 👍's up thank you for sharing 😅
Nobody ever mentions how close a SpinTron test rig sounds to a running engine, despite not actually burning any fuel! At high rpm, they sound like running engines
I hope he's running Isky Max bushed lifters and Isky Gold stripe dual valvesprings...lol
Hey i wanna hear about these race tug boats!
Eventually, I would like to see them build a flatplane V8 like the mustang 350R
that thing has some legs up top
These have been around for a little while now for anyone thinking this is new, its not. Hot rod or car craft did a feature years back now on how to gwt ahold of the parts and how to build this engine. This would be my dream build if i could ever afford to do any of this stuff..
I wonder if they use ARP bolts.
What is the cylinder wall thickness at a 4.185 bore on that particular block? 🤔
On a 4.4" bore spacing, that leaves 0.215" wall thickness (between cylinders. No idea on the thrust sides).
Thanks much. I thought maybe you'd think that was a stupid question. ✌️😎
TCI ...... 👍 !
Pats pocket on his shirt is bout to burst lol!
circle track car only needs 350hp to 400hp to idle at the average track speed. but i can bet that engine needs a radiator the size of two K20 engines.
Having the 6-bolt mains in the ls I'm surprised that the conventional is the way you went
Amazed how there is a lack of manifold gaskets.
@14:42 precision torque wrench, looks just like mine except left handed. Click click.
I would have added more timing.a typical 15°headed small block will take as much as 34°.I think they could have tapped the 800hp mark
You guys made this engine for project street fighter and the car was a Camaro
FR3. YOU USED FR3 in a torque 454 several years ago.
I have always wondered about additives.
Unfortunatly, the FR3 was added before the first dyno test. This did not allow anyone to find out if the additive worked.
Could you please get a few dyno runs on an engine to establish a base, the add the FR3 and test again. This will either prove or disprove if the FR3 works as advertised.
Thank you
Do a Ford Parklane 410 Marauder
So at the end of the day you spent a crazy budget to make what a good ls7 can make...
Or a 454LSX, there is the Nascar SB2 or R07 as well.
But this will last longer in circle track racing running constant high rpm
@@19chev81literally what the LS7 was designed for. It was made to live close to its redline. The fact it doesn't have to spin to 8,000 rpm to make its power is just a bonus.
The only thing that would make this make sense is if bore or stroke is limited to a certain thing or a certain type of block is required.
This one is heavy duty for drag racing. It makes the power and has longevity.😊
@@ForneyRider it's built for a road course car. You can easily build a reliable 700hp ls for less money. I like that it's different but the end product doesn't justify the level of parts and budget
Wooohhhh!!
You rebuild engines for custumers?
I have a few questions. Why use head bolts instead of studs? Did they use roller cam bearings? Will a Jesel belt drive fit under a timing cover?
Yes, wet timing belts exist.
Frankie looks great he grew a beard, now he don’t look so baby face weird.
Build a drag and drive car !!!!
Kudos to Edelbrock for moving their HQ out of Kalifornistan.
Of course they moved to a place to exploit tax laws and can pay workers $7. Keep in mind tho, their engineering is still in CA because MS doesnt have that talent pool.
🎉 Yay high compression! With the abundance and popularity of e85 especially in late model boosted applications, I think most of your engine builds should finish by swapping in a solid roller camshaft and high compression pistons. High dollar, high performance TV show engine builds on pump gas = 😴
Big block Chevy is the way to go 🤯
Not for constant high rpm on a circle track....
@@19chev81 They do it in boats all the time, way more than this probably does.
I need you guys to show me , How to use those torque wrenches correctly Gg 😅 ....
I would like see them try building like a F1 engine. 2.5L, 13000 RPM
Yeah that would be out of their area of expertise. F1 engines are insane to put it lightly.
I think they have the smarts to do it, especially Pat.
@@bmstylee
@@pascalhumphrey tell me you know nothing about what is involved in an F1 engine build without saying you know nothing about it. Building a pushrod V8 that revs to 8k max is not even remotely close to a modern F1 engine that idles at 4k. The old 3.0L V10s idle higher than most of the dyno pulls they make and run to 20,000 RPM. So yes he might be able to build one but don't expect it to last very long. Pat's a very good engine builder but not in that area.
F1 engines have very tight tolerances and have to be heated with oil before even starting the engine. Not practical at all
@@marcalampi5036 tight tolerance is an understatement. Until they get it warmed it's basically seized.
Okay hold up. I'm not an engine builder so I'm kind of confused. Is it a custom block? How would LS heads fit on an old SBC? Or do you mean an LQ9 vortec block?
Its a motown block. Its specifically custom made for the LS top end. Google world products motown 2 LS. The problem is, the blocks 3500$ lol
I see I thought it was the old small block I didn't realize it was a specialty block
Small block chevys are reliable up to about 550 hp and ls engines to 1000 hp. Only reason to build this, is loophole in rules. It'll go like hell but won't have close, the reliability of a ls build
what is up with the old mopar v6's , the ones in the LH and forward in time, the good the bad and the ones that can be hopped up > reliably? > The last big 6 used in minivans and jeeps ? As things like cost / mile count any way to hop them up and keep them affordable to run ? WE have all heard the story's , 8 mpg at 30 or 130 . yea not at $4.00/gallon
That Camaro looked great. Was there something unseen that was the reason to buy that for race instead of some junker with no title?
That camara had alot of issues. There was front end damage, fenders were buckled. It wasn't as nice as it looked on camera
@@19chev81 Thank you.👍
Why such a large ring gap for an NA engine?
Bad ass but it's at least 75 ft lbs down on tq
That job must suck! 😂
Really....I wanted a 6 4 barrel intake.....and they didn't have it
I’ve never done an engine build before. Can anyone tell me how much they think this particular engine build would cost?
I’m assuming that if you were building a 700 hp engine that was going to see more day to day driving you’d probably use a bit of a different parts list so I’m not asking for exact numbers.
$25k race engine only
And exactly which part was made in the GM factory?
Why do people say it is a Chevy or such when it only looks like a small block Chevy.
Guess the local wrecking yards ran out of sbc 350s to put big money in.
You know your cam has, ALOT of lift when you need taller lifter sleeves!!!
Expeshily is not a word.
This is about engines not english class. Man up and quit bitching 😂
Oh my God…. lol naturally aspirated
I'd hate to see the price tag on that thing
My stock aluminium block 415 with gm performance parts cnc heads and a cid 4500 intake makes more than that.
But it wouldnt last as long on a circle track at a constant high rpm
@@19chev81 maybe not, but that would be block related. I have just as good bottom end stuff as they do, callies crank and rods, but not near as good of heads as they do. That's why I make power at 7k not 7700, and I make more torque from less cubic inches.
can i run this engine with a carb gulping e85 ?
Yes but why use an obsolete technology
Carburetors are far from obsolete there tin lips..
@@kkoch666 keep telling yourself that and it still won't make it true. You also probably think single circuit manual drum brakes and 6 volt electronics are just as good as what we use now. Technology advances and carbs, like CRT TVs and flip phones are well and truly obsolete even if a small segment of the populous uses them because new technology scares them.
@@bmstylee To be fair, a carb will make more power, every time.
@@taylorsrus9543 Direct injection makes more power than carb or efi of any kind.