What Are Memory Timings? CAS Latency, tRCD, tRP, & tRAS (Pt 1)
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2018
- RAM (memory) timings are complicated. Primary, secondary, and tertiary timings can impact benchmark performance on Intel and Ryzen CPUs, and we talk about them here.
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Article: www.gamersnexus.net/guides/33...
In this content, we define different memory timings and talk about the ratios between timings. Primary timings are focused on today, including CAS Latency (CL), tRCD, tRP, tRAS, and more. We also talk about command rate, and provide some benchmarks with tRFC and tREFI testing for memory overclocks on an 8700K CPU. Memory timings impact performance on Intel and AMD similarly, though the first round of Ryzen CPUs were particularly sensitive to memory timings. This brought timings back to the forefront of everyone's minds, and we're here to explain memory timings and what they do. A future content piece will talk about secondary and tertiary timings, but we are focusing on primary timings for now. This applies to Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron memory alike, which is used by all the vendors (Kingston, GSkill, Corsair, etc.).
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Article: www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras
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good idea. this is the mystic art of the overclock the voodoo beyond the bclock and the multiplier. the black arts of the magic acronyms. good thing that motherboard bios makers do a decent job of tweaking timings with training cause if we all had to set everyone one of these by hand without xmp as a starting point it would take months to get decent settings.
also would like to see a test where dual rank dual channel memory is tested against single rank dual channel memory. if i take 4 sticks of single bank ram and put them in a 4 slot motherboard do i have dual rank now? thats how it works right? i know there is a small uplift with dual rank on modern cpu's. a couple tech sites have done stories on it
Already waiting for part 2 :)
Another long needed video. Thanks, your animations really helped me visualize the meanings of the words. I look forward to part 2.
I have one nagging curiosity after experiencing the SPD not reading correctly with OCing of something completely unrelated to the memory system. Where does the SPD chip on DDR4 DIMMs get its power from? Is it a dedicated pin on the DDR4 slot, or is it attached to one of the primary memory power rails (VDDR, VDDQ, VTT, VDDL, etc)?
Great vid GN crew. B)
I was searching "how to chose your RAM", after watching this video I know now I shall not chose my RAM. RAM will chose me...
That's hilarious! Love it
omg, good comment
lmaooooo
ukikikikiki hahahahah hehehehehehe
Pretty much
Glad to see your study of the dark arts is coming along. Seriously RAM is so complicated. Thanks for the video.
agreed, and Dark Arts is a very good description of this topic. Its about as difficult to grasp as Microwave Electron-voodoo circuits. lol.
Agreed.
It seems like if you don't make the ram then you don't understand the ram.
If you do understand the ram then you don't explain the ram.
If you don't know the ram then you're a noob.
You just can't win. It's a very well guarded secret how ram works.
One would have thought that buying a RAM would be the easiest part of building a computer.
@@Zarcondeegrissom what are the chances that right before this video, I watched a half hour long video, about nothing but microwaves coming from microwaves.
@@Youda00008 it is though.
I find RGB strips easier to understand.
RGB timings are important... maybe
I lol'd hard
420th like. :D
And you get more performance out of RGB than RAM anyways...
@@Jumptohistory Oh they are! I wrote an AVR ASM routine to write a buffer of memory to an ARGB strip. It's a 1-wire serial interface, so the difference between 0s and 1s is how long to hold a high level on the line before going low again. You latch the values (and reset the serial bus) by holding low for a specific amount of time. On a micro running at ~8 to 20MHz, it's a matter of counting cycles for the loop, then padding any time (hopefully) remaining without going over your timing budget. :-)
Explaining Timings takes time
But it was also about time to talk about timings.
mickperez thank god someone gets it I’m still lost on the subject but hey it’s not like this is all about time or something... I‘m still grateful my fucking iPhone works...
@@mickperez About time..
@@Noise-Bomb time reception
Understanding timings takes even more time! Now my brain hurts...
Your videos are really a tier above the rest of the computer hardware channels on youtube, it's good to see someone who doesn't mind reading the specifications and really getting into the details.
I can confirm.
The knowledge is stronk with this one
if you want to watch another youtuber that's just as in depth check out actually hardcore overclocking
@@lightfalcon1 This is a good primer for BZ.
Gamers Nexus shows much more tech-savvy than other channels, which are entertaining dilettantes. I believe some of the Gamers Nexus staff have at least technician-level expertise.
Been waiting for someone to explain this for many years.
Same, thank you GN
I don't want to sound like a douche but I will because this is all public info you can just google lol.
Mister Shots sometimes we dont want to read all the tech so we listen to youtubers who can break it down better.its just my opinion.ram is one of those things that give me a fukn headache to even comprehend
I think techquickie has an episode explaining what you want, just not as complicated as this one.
Hey Steve - I know it's been four years since this vid, but by chance, is there ever a part 2 coming? Would love to get more GOOD information from you folks on items like CHA/CHB refresh interval, and just in general a deeper dive into some of these settings.
Either way, THANK YOU for the awesome video!
Please I am also awaiting part 2, there are DOZENS of us. DOZENS!
Just started this video for the first time and immediately went looking for pt 2 to queue up. Thanks for saving me from looking for a mythical video
@@Grstearns Same here. And please, @Gamers Nexus, part 2 pretty please ^_^
We need part 2!
same here. just saw this, browsed the channel, didnt see anything. then went to the comments
two years of blueballs waiting for part 2
Yup
I cant wait for part 2 so I can fry my brain faster than a CPU with a 20volt Vcore
Yeeeeep
So glad I'm not the only one.
Keep holding
Man, this reminds me of my masters PC architectural courses. We had to write code from scratch to emulate an x86 processor, create a virtual cache and memory to simulate how data is transferred between all 3. He'll then ask us to retrieve data at certain points in time in either the cache or memory to check if it was the correct data. I think we even went into ECC coding. It was a summer course and that wasn't enough time to really really dig into it. We sped through so much (50+ pages per week) and very few passed.
So since it's taken over two years, I'm expecting part 2 to be Hella Good!!
This is the ultra basics??? Oh boy...
Can't argue that it's excellent information!
Gotta start somewhere... 🤓
yeah this is like me listening to my calculus teacher.
@@ryen7512 there is a lot of calculus involved here
2 years and a pandemic later and were still waiting on the discussion of 2endary timings
You guys take on really tough subjects sometimes. It may not pull in huge numbers and it may be difficult to produce, but you all have a drive to teach us (your audience) more about technology. We all really appreciate it!
Having seen the channel grow from like 10k I'm happy to see where it has grown for the very reasons you stated three years ago.
yes! I have been waiting for a video like this for ages. It would be awesome if you could include tertiary timings in the other parts with information on how to set these as this information is scarce online.
Working on it!
@@GamersNexus Just a gentle reminder, what's up with the next part?
@@ev-ezaye3580 guess the secondaries and tertiaries got the best of steve like hed be all cross-eyed trying to shoot the vid, throwing snowflake all over the studio and whatnot bwahahahah
@@n0rie9a I guess we can't blame him for this. It's a brain torture. LOL
Optimizing memory timings for a specific desktop build has always been important, especially if you want to get the most stability and performance out of your system. Anytime someone see's a "page fault" blue screen on a windows machine, it means they really should manually configure their system memory.
For a few years though, all the marketing behind XMP had really paid off. Most people who thought of themselves as "enthusiasts", stopped caring about tweaking their memory timings and just used XMP. When XMP didn't work out of the box, they then either blamed the memory vendor, the CPU maker, or the motherboard vendor... All problems that can be solved for brands by good PR teams and "viral marketing" of online product review sections.
That same really good marketing and PR, resulted in people forgetting that most memory DIMMs are using basically the same memory ICs... "enthusiasts" stopped bothering to check or care about what kind of memory they were actually buying (samsung/micron/hynix revisions A thru H) and were only thinking about the memory vendors brand names. "Influencers" and product reviewers stopped mentioning what type of memory IC's different consumer memory brands were actually using for individual products. This was good for memory vendors, because it made the good old fashion bait and switch waaaaay easier.
Oddly, I don't think it was actually AMD Ryzen that triggered the social zeitgeist suddenly caring again about properly configuring memory for an individual build and actually being aware of what type of ICs DIMMs are using... but I think it was crypto currency mining. A shit ton of non-technical people suddenly began self-taught crash courses on GPU bios software coding and more specifically exactly how DRAM functions. When suddenly an extra 15% memory performance, means 15% more $$$'s earned per hour and system instability means $$$'s lost... people suddenly start looking past marketing bullshit and learn how things actually work.
ArhGee
Do you of a good read on this subject?
It’s not often such information is found on CZcams comments. Great job preserving to expand.
Adjusted speed and timings myself manually. FX 6300 performs slightly better and PC feels more instantaneous. GTA 5 felt like it has less delays in rendering frames, making it smoother. Was totally worth it, didn't change stock voltage. Same power consumption and more performance, perfection.
Based on my limited observations people stopped caring about timings around DDR3, that's XMP, right. But at the same time CPU overclocking became a very easy task with 2 cranks: You have vCore voltage and CPU multiplier. That's all (and people are still somehow afraid to overclock).
What this has done to overclocking is that lowered the entry barrier. You don't have to spend time reading, you just need to know what the "safe" voltages and achievable CPU clocks are. Why has everyone forgot about memory? Because it didn't stop CPU OC any longer. BCLK stays constant, memory controller is decoupled from its clock. With BCLK overclocking you had to take care of all the other things, including the consistency with the memory clocks.
And BCLK OC had stopped being THE method around the time DDR3 has become widespread.
As an early Ryzen adopter I can confirm though that memory was given the importance again. People saw the high memory clocks on Intel platforms and the clocks problems on Ryzen. Since next to none had the deep knowledge of manual timing tuning people tried to find working chips for high clocks (Samsung B/E-die memory etc).
For my part I can say that firmware was in awful state, no matter the memory chip capabilities. When the secondary RAM voltage must be at 50% of the main voltage (following the standard), but the firmware doesn't adjust for this automatically, then it's not just a Ryzen/platform fault. XMP profile sets 1.35v but that secondary voltage remained at default 0.6v... This was fixed at some point in summer 2017 (Asus X370 Prime). (not to mention that firmware is built with crap and sticks and works somehow, according to people working in the industry, but that's a topic for another day)
I always hated the XMP marketing bs. Industry loves it for the almost non-existent amount of time spent "improving" a product which would sell a lot by simply slapping jargon to it. I too have blamed the wrong manufacturers for this.
3 years on, still waiting for part 2
Have you mastered part 1 yet?
@@blueridgeocean 😂🤣
14:07 timings explanations start
This comment needs to be higher up
There are people that really need to hear the first part
You know you're in for it when gn has to break an informational vid into several 20+ minute parts
This is one of the best explanations of memory timings in my long overclocking history. Can't wait for part 2!
Looking forwards to watching the videos in this series at least 10 times to maybe get a small grasp of things :) Thanks for the no nonsense / fluff approach to things
2020 and we still waiting for part 2...
I really want to thank you for taking the time to create such a video with so in-depth information. I'm currently doing research on computer hardware to choose the best products for my first build. This video has helped a lot with understanding the basics. Just wanted to let you know that your hard work does not go unnoticed.
As I've started to get into overclocking, memory timings have always given me some trouble, so thanks for making content like this. The information on this subject is so complex and spread out all over the place that having such a thorough overview in one place is extremely helpful.
I loved this! I can't wait until part 2!
Awesome to see you guys covering this.
Will you be going into things like B2B CAS Delay and Round Trip Latency?
I am gonna post this on a current video, too, but this is my first GN since- I JUST GOT MY MOD MAT.
I am so thrilled to have a excellent piece of equipment from my favorite CZcams Channel. I watch you guys so much, I had to support, and I DEFINITELY wanted this anyways.
Love you guys. Thank you for all that you do for consumers everywhere (everything you guys have done, with New Egg, with Artesian Builds, etc).
Amazing content, and can fully appreciate how difficult it is to make such technical points digestible. At this point perhaps it's better to start all over, but just start with a page completed vs. making a video about it. The benefit is that the page can be updated and clarified over time once the framework is set - then that can be the rubric for following up on a summary video (or videos). Thanks to the team for this info!
they say steve is still reading the secondaries and tertiaries definitions to this day....
*_remebering the secrecy and fun times of the ddr2 era_*
Looking forward to part two. I need to learn this stuff.
I found this to be extremely informative and coherent. Great work to the GN team.
Excellent info!
I just learned yesterday a bit about XMP (Profile lol) when my Ryzen system's BIOS decided after 2 months that it didn't like my auto XMP setting resulting in a boot loop.
So I am very glad to have this info collected and presented by Gamers Nexus.
Can't wait for the future installments with this testing.
I've been waiting for something l like this. Thank you so much!
Hey there guys! This video is great, I know it's been four years since it was published along with the article. Do you still have plans to shoot the part 2 and 3 of this series? I'm sure we are a lot who are waiting for a deeper dive into the secondary and tertiary timings. I've been playing around with memory timings and frequency since the old Pentium II and AMD K6-2 days and in the last few years I've seen a resurgence in interest regarding memory overclocking, and I find it really exciting!
I have learned so much from this channel it’s insane. From being intimated by computers (opening them lol) to building my own and considering trying my first delis. Thanks for the help guys. Great channel.
Mad respect for doing a video like this, I don’t think any other techtubers would even dare to venture into talking about memory timings let alone explain it in detail like you have here. Most just go like “hurr durr higher memory speed good for Ryzen” without even mentioning timing.
I have a basic knowledge of memory timings but I learned a lot from this video. Looking forward to the next one in the series.
if i buy a mod mat will Snowflake get a can of tuna as her cut?
We're actually the ones who get a can of food. She keeps the cash.
I for one welcome our fluffy overlord. Mat ordered, its the one going to Chico, Ca. :)
Awesome! Thank you, Sleepy.Time. I look forward to my canned food!
That's what happens when you let the AMD CEO into your company :/
Pretty sure she's the one doing the cutting, as shown in a previous video ;)
Now repeat that and imagine you're talking to a child.
Imagine if that is the ELI5 version of it....
small number good big number bad
18:35 "That's it for the 'Ultra-basics' " Well thank goodness!!! Can we move on to the complicated stuff now, finally? wow
easy: if you dont do the chores, your timings will go baaaaad... now go
Lol i am 13 and still understand this
Because i am indian( no kidding, i am a indian)
Thanks for doing this man! I know explaning ram timings is daunting and there is so little info out there. Waiting eagerly on part 2
Splendid, I'll be looking forward to the next instalment /follow up vid! I've been looking for such a detailed breakdown for some time
Super stoked to learn about memory timings. Considering AMD;s new tech, infinity fabric is heavily dependent on memory timings. Thank you very much for this content Steve & all of GN employees for this in-depth content.
How can someone DISLIKE a video like that?! It is well presented, in depth analyzed and explained. I vote with like and shares to fight you! :)
:D
THIS VIDEO IS GOLD. PURE GOLD. SO USEFUL. THANKS GN FOR DIVING DEEP INTO THIS.
You earned a Subscribe. I can't recall seeing a youtube video with so much attention before, real quality content for such a finicky topic.
Did you guys ever do Part 2 on subtimings?
It doesn't seem they did. 😩
I'm also looking for this.
I just checked, but seems not (crying)
@@Ianochez Ask GN 108 has an update, they're waiting on Peer review & the video is "90% done"
If the question is asked by Ianochez, that's me ahah Thank you reminding me, I didn't realize that was 90% ahah, my english listening is not 100%.
People are praying for the part 2! In my case I got 4 sticks of 4 chan memory running at 2133 cl11 with an FX-8350 IMC stable, but the secondary timings being on auto seem to be very strange. Like "Write to read delay (dd)" is 1 (ONE!). Plus much more: The mobo set other secondaries below the SPD values. Bought the kingston 2400mhz 4 chan anniversary edition on a dual channel system a time ago in plans to switching to intel, wich I didnt do.
Great video thank for that shed's some light on the complexity of RAM. Have you ever made Part 2. Would love to go more in depth on the subject. Looked for it but couldn't find it. Keep up the amazing work you guys are great. 👍
Excellent easy to understand demystifying of RAM, thanks for this one
My brain hurts. Bring back Snowflake lol
Mine to LoL nothing like the old days
O.O
I used to think I knew that computers where complex. After watching this video I realize even the level of complexity I was thinking of wasn't high enough....
I'm currently pursuing a Computing BSc, this was very informative. Thank you Steve all the way from Trinidad & Tobago!!!
finally, i've literally been waiting since 2015 for a video like this.. keep em coming
Wow... consider mind blown. Best explanation I've seen. Seemed maybe a bit rushed, but the underlying graphics were a phenomenal idea. Anticipating some analysis and explanation of "loosening" and "tightening" the timings manually. If not, maybe a subject for another video. Thanks for the time and attention team.
Has part two come out yet?
Thank you! I was just looking for articles or videos that could I learn about this very topic you’re covering. Thank you again for breaking it down for a person who has no background on this topic.
This was a really good explanation, although just covering basics. Can't wait to watch the next episode.
Great job!
so that's why computer architecture is very important subject for programmer
Is there a part 2???
I literally searched for content on this topic from you yesterday and was going to ask about it on the next ask gn, specifically on the relation between timings and frequency.
You could say your "timing" was impeccable with releasing it.
This is great, I've always wanted to really understand these timings and you're right, the definitions are complicated even as an engineer
listening to this makes me feel like my brain is teflon-coated. no knowledge is able to trickle through
Is there going to be a part 2?
Thanks Steve. Always wondered about this! This helps.
You state it well... .the more definitions you get, the more you need.
(words to that effect).
Coupling this video series with a video on OC'ing RAM and reiterating the theory behind it while doing so would really drive the concepts home.
Hey Steve, can you link us some stuff for storing our spare parts, like the awesome RAM DIMM holder thingies you have on your desk? I'd love to know where to get something like that to store my spare parts, thank you for your consideration. Fantastic video by the way, already sent it out to like 5 folks who I thought might find it interesting and or informative. This is the content that sets you apart.
Thanks! You should be able to find them just on eBay by searching for "RAM tray," or something like that.
Also, if you have access to a 3d printer you can make them. A cursory search for them on thingiverse came up with these www.thingiverse.com/thing:2101767
*@Gamers Nexus:* Perfect, this is exactly what I was asking for ages! :s
On *Part 2* video, please teach us how to manually overclock them, while explaining how and why -> this and that. But for both AMD and Intel platforms. Please?
Arigatou gozaimasu!
flowing along with the article while running the video is highly recommended
Love your content, love your format and love your whole approach to a subject! 😉
@GamersNexus it's been three years when is part 2 coming?
*Pity is, Part 2 does not exist. Steve never got around to making the follow-up video. To read full text, view charts and illustrations from this video follow link in Steve's pinned comment. Cheers!*
You're opening up a can of worms. Pretty soon people will want you to go through every available bios setting and explain what they do.
I mean, wtf is the use of spread spectrum anyways?! 😜
spread spectrum makes VRMs sing like a screaming banshee, and the other spread spectrum can cause PCI cards to flake out. I'm not sure either of them is a beneficial 'feature' lol.
There's a wikipedia article on it that explains it quite well but basically it's what happens when a TSA agent taps you on the shoulder at an airport
> spread spectrum anyways
Yeah, that one is confusing, because it should say spread-spectrum clock signal generation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_spectrum#Spread-spectrum_clock_signal_generation
It reduces electromagnetic interference (a bit). It makes regulatory entities like the FCC happy.
I always turn it off.
My retro computer has lots of things that are hard to explain and despite motherboard being from 2005, there are enough settings from 90s and even from 80s.
Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. Guess I'll go eat worms... first one's easy, second one's squeezy, 3rd and 4th go down. 5th gets stuck and 6th comes up. Golly how I love worms!!
Thank you GN!! Always wanted this info all in one place
Have always wanted to know more about this! Thanks GN!
Can't find part 2, anyone else?
2:41 - You Missed a Zero! LOL!
no he didn't
@@blakebyatt9948 yeah he did
This is just the best. Totally explains a few of my issues with Ryzen 5 1600. Thank you!
Very important content video. I've had to watch this along with others several times to begin understanding and It's a good thing that this dependency is becoming more relevant.
Any idea where is part 2?
when could we expect pt2?
Thanks a ton for this video. I feel like I'm going to have to watch it another time or 2 again before I fully follow you on this.
Excellent work. Never sat down to work this through, but this video works well as an introduction for me.
I'm pretty sure you should be close to finishing part 2 by now right... ? Right... ?
*Nope and never.*
Where is part 2?
This is awesome, the one thing that's always eluded me when over clocking is memory timings and other memory settings.
I definitely have to watch this a couple more times to absorb all the information. Good stuff.
Where's Part 2?
Definitely downloaded, saved, shared, all that shit
You did an amazing job on a tough topic to explain. I learned a lot. Thank you very much.
This is perfect content and well presented. Thank you GN
..... So basically just buy RAM that's on your motherboard's QVL list and use XMP lol
nooo, don't expose my secret OCing sauce.
lmfaooo
I had no idea of what this all meant before and now I have a rough understanding of what I'm looking at on the box. Please keep making these explainer videos
Clearly a lot of work to pull off something like this. Thanks for making that effort, great video.
Where's part 2? I can't find it.
did u find it?i looked there is nothing
*Pity is, Part 2 does not exist. Steve never got around to making the follow-up video. To read full text, view charts and illustrations from this video follow link in Steve's pinned comment. Cheers!*
@@tehran0212 *Pity is, Part 2 does not exist. Steve never got around to making the follow-up video. To read full text, view charts and illustrations from this video follow link in Steve's pinned comment. Cheers!*
Me waiting on part 2: 💀
*Pity is, Part 2 does not exist. Steve never got around to making the follow-up video. To read full text, view charts and illustrations from this video follow link in Steve's pinned comment. Cheers!*
I worked for years as a Digital Component Test Engineer, and that included testing DRAM DC parametrics, AC parametrics, and functional testing using algorithmic pattern generators. I am very impressed with the content of this video, so much so that I am bookmarking it, so I can share it with others in the future.
Hey guys really thank you for this video and the rest of the videos you will make on this. As a release day R7 1700 owner i have really learned how much ryzen loves faster memory timings but good information on overclocking memory past xlr is hard to come by. Keep up the good work.
Hint: with very large of small numbers, please use powers of ten for clarity. Repeating "zero, zero, zero, zero, zero" doesn't really help that much.
Only if he explains what "power" is first 😋
Im going to be honest and blunt, I love technical facts and data, so I love this channel, but this is way too deep for me and most users. Im going to scrub through it, because at the end of the day ill never really need or want to know this information in such depth (but others might). Thank you for the content though, and not turning the channel into RGB meme clickbait trash like most other tech channels have done.
Yeah, the video requires some "basis", where do you get it though? I'd love to some articles if someones throws them in my face
Thanks for this. Just tried to overclock my ram using xmp a few hours ago and this helps a lot.
That is the probably best explanation i got so far. thanks for that very useful bit of info.